the state supreme court. his wife seen no governor's right, holding the bible, and the administration of the oath. >> so help me god. >> so help me god. ..

open us to govern in the true spirit, amen. >> why is it so imperative that you take office now? >> united states attorney for the middle district of tennessee called me at noon and said he had substantial reason to believe governor blanton was about to let out of the state prison a person who was a target of a grand jury investigation and alleged payoffs connected with parole. with that information, i concluded immediately as i told the speaker and lieutenant governor that that was new and specific information that demanded i act as i could. >> what is your feeling tonight? >> in many ways a very sad moment in tennessee but in many other ways it is a great moment. it will be recorded that ray lamar -- ray blanton was his own worst enemy. broad this on himself, there was

no other choice. the united states attorney today did what he had to do when they heard from the united states attorney, i think lamar alexander did what he had to do. >> the attorney general who assured me in the afternoon that if i took office under these circumstances it was constitutionally valid. after the information was presented to each of us, we agreed that this would be -- from my perspective what occurred. >> we have dave schiller standing by at the supreme court building with lt. governor john wilder. >> the district attorney called myself from florida and governor alexander advised us he had certain information that led him to believe there were a number of persons who were going to be hardened and/or commuted

shortly. we had no choice. >> when did governor blanton find out this ceremony was about to take place? >> you is advised of this shortly before it happened. >> standing by with speaker of the house. >> the man you just bore in is a republican. you are a democrat. most of the people who participated in the decision to swear him in early are democrats. >> first time tennesseeand. regardless of the party. >> thank you very much. [applause] >> my friends got caught. >> i want to put the book so that i can see how young lamar and john and and where.

henry looked even then. i saw among you so many hands raised, may be three people who were not in this room who were not in tennessee and so i don't need to to delve into much of the history that we just saw on the screen. it was called in the media the pardon for cash scandal. we had seen in the days and hours immediately preceding these last five or six hours we had seen multiple pardons signed by the governor. governor blanton had indeed announced he had signed many of

those within weeks. at least we to members of his administration had been arrested. one, a lawyer on his staff, was arrested after marked bills were found on his person. you could tell by watching that video, the democrats were deeply concerned about what had been going. and the media had been reporting mostly on a daily basis, television, we saw chris clark there, sometimes on an hour to hour basis and there were grave concerns that we had not seen

the end of this. here we are on monday. lamar alexander is going to be sworn in as a republican governor on saturday. i think every official in government was holding his breath, worried about what would come next. and now keel hunt with this book called "coup," he has in ways i never thought i would envision, he has brought that story together. not just the story of those few hours, it focuses on that but through almost 200 interviews. you know how it is when i

mention keel hunt's name. i am not going to mention it again. there was a power surge. so that is the story. this is the background. i have read the book, i thought i knew everything about what happened that day. i read that book can do was like getting an education. it is a vital and valuable piece of history at the one brought. why did you do it? >> the first thing i want to say is i could not be honored more than for you to have written the foreword to this book.

john is my editor. [applause] >> look where we are. it is the great thing and i thank you for that and the book -- i also want to say something else. as i look around this room a lot of the people in this room have been the most important people in my life and career and that is an absolute truth. i thank you all, starting with my family who are here. marsha hunt, my wife, not only my muse but the love of my life, our daughter shannon and her daughter olivia was here earlier and they are in town from washington d.c.. my colleague sack hunt who is also my son and i want to single them out because i can. thank you. i wrote this book for two

reasons. two reasons mainly. one is i like a good story. i enjoyed writing, i have all my life. this just struck me as a pretty good yarn. this is a compelling story. it is also true. i hope it reads like this but it struck me at one point almost like a novel, almost stranger than fiction house some of these things happened and the interrelationships of people and leaders and so forth and first of all it struck me as a pretty cool story and i hope you will think so if you read the book. the other reason was after reflecting, after talking with these fellows and a number of other people in the room tonight, there were 163 interviews over a period of time, what struck me most of all was this was a very timely story

for the age in which we now live which tends to be so contentious. we are sitting here with senator alexander who must live in this environment i am describing every day not only in washington but state capitals all over the country that we have not a lot of coming together, not a lot of bipartisanship. in the cooperative spirit among our elected leaders in many cases, and i thought this was a case study of how that can happen when it happens well. it is possible, it has been possible in our lifetime. that was just, this is an important story to know. for people to read and children when the time comes for them to read it too for that reason because somehow in restoring

that sense of cooperation was the future, the hope of our country and certainly our communities and it is important to know. as we saw those familiar faces on the screen, as a matter of fact, what struck me most of all was these were very serious partisan people, folks who had been elected, worked hard for the offices they held, in one or two case is the office they were about to lose but the ones who came together to solve that problem including the u.s. attorney, build beaches specially, these were people who were very partisan people and they didn't want to do this and yet they came together and as you say that period of 5.5 or 6 hours and they did this thing because it needed to be done. it was a public safety emergency potentially and that is the story, the second reason i wrote

the book. >> thank you, keel hunt. i was honored to be asked, delighted. wet me see if i can try to set the scene. as i think of it, you are the united states district attorney, for tennessee. you also were the first judicial appointments, the first judge appointed by governor ray blanton. this morning, at the courthouse, you have been reading the papers a good deal more than that, you

have been reading fbi reports sent talking to fbi agents. and they understand what is going on and you understand what is going on. and now it appears there is a very real crisis. the book tells definitively what you did, but would you just for the audience recount where you are that morning, what led you to do what you do. the series of events that led to this unprecedented transition. talk to us about that. >> and the alexander said this is the worst day of her life, the worst day of everybody's life, it was not a happy thing

but that they was really the last three days before that, starting that saturday, there was intelligence information coming in that tomorrow, monday, a lot of people let out of the penitentiary, some of whom were suspect. that was on a saturday. fast forward monday night, the governor at midnight signed 52 pardons. my recollection is 24 of those people were convicted murderers. it was horrible, some of that was torture and poison and things like that and these were people that had already been rejected by the board of parole and pardons and so forth and it

was incredible they were going to be released. it was something that really made national news. some of the people were suspect. then we had the attorney-general's opinion to come down that monday, it was written by trip hunt but bill leach was in washington arguing before the supreme court that it was still legal for victor ashe. >> can i just say, he said to me later on, victor ashe is here, victor ashe had been written another letter to the attorney general. recognizing what had taken place and he asked is it possible for the swearing in to take place? >> how could it happen? and you are right, victor did ask for a lot of opinions and

thank goodness. it was written by a trip hunt and basically said analyzing the constitution, yes, the governor and take a anytime after january 15th and the inauguration, the inauguration in the constitution is different, and nobody paid much attention to that. i thought it was fascinating but bill leach learned about it, our attorney general, a democrat, rare close friend. he was in washington and apparently bill asked that that be reversed. he didn't like that of opinion and he called his office and you can tell us about that but basically bill changed that opinion. so that worried lamar very much.

there were some questions that he could take off early. to get to that day, it was a cold, dreary day, in your forward about cambridge, that horrible day which seemed everything was depressing, i had been thinking what in the world could i do? this is getting out of hand and i thought about that morning. i got a call in november, the fall before and my secretary said the speaker of the house is on the phone. i pick up the phone and he said general, the country you're for it to every prosecutor as a general even though we are not and he said general, i said yes, he said i just want to tell you

that if you ever need me, i am here. by this time there were already ten apartments that caved in. there was a lot of rumors. and roger humphries and i saw lee smith here who revealed that as you detail so well in your book. so that morning you hear from the fbi. i had actually been pacing back and forth and i remember i ran into the u.s. marshal and they were not talking about it. what you going to do? what is going to happen? i don't know, i don't know. and then the fbi agent with whom i had been coordinating, he came up to see me and he said look, he was very depressed about it,

here is what is going to happen. here is what is going down. >> he is telling you this. >> he is telling me this. we have a situation where the governor is definitely going to do this. he is going to free certain individuals. >> the second list. >> second list of individuals and these names have surfaced before and secretly taped conversations -- the weekend before, more than 50 pardons had been signed. now you're getting information there's a second list. one of them on the list was a high priority for us, triple murderer and already evidence from three separate sources on video and tape recordings that money had been raised, some of the money had been raised, he had raised some of the money by having people rob games and

raised $50,000, the commissioner was involved in it. there wasn't much doubt that he was involved in a payoff. the information that i received was corroborated by everything that had gone on in the past and i asked the fbi, go back and verify lot of this for me and he said what have you got to do? and i said you don't want to know. you don't want to know. >> the reason for that was our new then that i was going to have to call lamar. >> let me just ask you, you said you knew then you were going to have to call lamar. you are working for an attorney general who is in washington.

did it occur to you you should call him and report to him? >> not really because i knew -- [laughter] -- had a good relationship with him. i knew that if i called general bell that number one, it takes a while to get through to him. and number 2, would have delayed the process and he probably would have said what do we think of this? why don't we think about it before we do anything? i knew that that was not an option. i knew i had information that i was the only ones that really had it. and i felt like i really had no alternative but to give it to lamar. i realized the united states attorney should not be dabbling in state politics. there's a great separation of power and a very serious thing to overstepped those lines.

for a chief law-enforcement official to be -- >> how did you get beyond that? >> i just thought about what is about to happen. and history tells me i was right about that. it was a no-brainer. anybody would have done what i did if they had the same information. >> so you called it. >> i told -- i would not tell the fbi, would not tell my own staff, and i don't want them to be responsible at all and cases going on, i didn't want this to be a illegal issue and the first thing i said when i called lamar

i am not calling you as united states attorney but as the tennesseeand. >> the first quiet morning i had. [laughter] >> and across the state. we had done to farewell reception is all over the stage and i was sitting in of private office above shoney's, riding an argument saturday. and this past by. and after the monday night when governor blanton released 52 people and said to the secretary of state this takes guts and the secretary of state said some people have more guts than

brains. and makes nixon look like a choirboy or something like that. it was tuesday. probably settled down by wednesday, and get to saturday because we were looking forward to saturday and we had sort of the beginning of the new administration, recruited a new cabinet. from all over the state. the custodian, the new custodian of the state's reputation which was pretty badly target right then and i was looking forward to that. >> to saturday. >> i remember honey saying that day, instead of a celebration which was saturday this is more like a funeral so i was sitting

there doing some business writing my address. louis donaldson was there. he came in early to be the head of finance and administration. he was in the other room and a highway patrolman came in and said the u.s. attorney is on the phone. >> and you said? >> i said ok, i talked to him. i knew about the pardon but we really didn't know each other. we were acquaintances. wasn't that later when our girls were here? daddy is taking catherine and his daughter out, i knew him by reputation as a straight shooter, u.s. attorney, president carter's appointee, governor blanton's appointee, no

one was rising faster in the democratic party, i had a good opinion. took the call and what you just said and i said to him something like may i call you back? >> why did you say atreons. one is i wanted to think about what he just said. he asked me to take office three days early and second, ited to make sure it was him. think about that. this is for caller it. -- collar id. i knew john. i knew -- he said -- he and i never talked about this since then. i don't think either of us understand exactly why we have

seen each other. he knew he had to do something and knew what he had to do and i knew when he called that i was going to have to do it. i knew i was going to be governor before the end of the day and also that i absolutely did not want to do it, probably shouldn't be done for a whole variety of reasons. i said this is the kind of thing, 100 things can go wrong and probably will. so i spent the rest of the afternoon and the next five hours trying to think of ways to get those 99 things from going wrong because the great concern was it wouldn't be accepted that the governor would find out about it. he was still head of the national guard with 10,000 people, had highway patrol surrounding the capital. somebody could have criticized it, you expect they would have in a country that prides itself on peaceful transitions. we could have made a laughingstock out of the state and instead of being custodian of the state's good reputation or restoring its good reputation

i could have just made it worse. odds were high-fat something would not work with something like this. keep in mind this is now republicans. everyone in the state capitols is a republican. 34 years ago i was the only republican in the state. i wasn't even in yet. and i didn't know these guys. i didn't know them very well. we were acquaintances. i knew them by good reputation but we had not worked together. >> part of the consideration from what you just said, part of the consideration is this is going to look like -- almost like a republican coup. the attorney general of the state is a democrat, u.s. attorney is a democrat, the

speaker of the house, lieutenant governor, they are all democrats, ray blanton is a democrat. one of the things that can go wrong is this may be misinterpreted as a political takeover. >> can i just say on that the thing that i've learned in doing this research was that it was so not republican coup. because of who the other principal people were, the two speakers, very senior democrats, it was hal hardin, no democrat in the state was a star rising faster, there was talk at the time that hal hardin might run for governor sooner or later. certainly a democrat and joe henry at the end of the day. >> joe henry. >> the chief justice of the

supreme court. >> and equated the election to a plague of locusts. he was right about that. >> bob henry was here a little earlier in the room, his brother joe henry, sons of chief justice joe henry, joe jr. told me when they were kids their dad, when it was time to leave and get in the car last one to the car is a republican. and so my point simply that there was -- it became clear to me that at the end of the day during the afternoon, if any one of them had said no, if any of them had said no it would not have happened. >> let me ask about the two of them. they know what is going on. you got that call in october or november that if you -- on the other hand, there are bound to

be concerns in their mind that the constitution says get rid of the governor, there are bound to the concerns in their minds with democrats, do we want to be involved in this and do we want to be leaders in this, you clearly wanted to be the leader because of the reservations you just expressed. what about them, when you reach them? >> when i first reached the speaker, governor wilder returned my calls first and i explained the situation to him and he said very reluctantly we will stand behind lamar and i knew that was not what lamar wanted. i was young but not that young.

[laughter] >> then he said let me get the speaker and we will call you back and both of them called me and governor wilder, a lot of reasons why this wouldn't work, the attorney general, i think liege should be involved in it, leash would have a conflict of interest because he represents the state of tennessee tuesday got into a discussion or conflict of interest. it is rapid fire. how are you going to do this or that, theoretically joe henry. and the sanctity of the supreme court and joe henry cannot do that. and any reason we can't do that, a lot of reasons we can't do this but if worst comes to worse we will stand behind lamar.

and i called, we talked -- and saying the same thing. we will tell lamar we will stand behind him. then i got with bill leach and -- and recovering from heart attack in his office. bill leach was recovering. >> justice henry just recovering from a heart attack. >> bill leach had another problem. >> when you just read the float. bill leach had a lot of problems. he had just argued before the united states supreme court, he had this opinion issue about

whether or not this is legal and his wife was in baptist hospital giving birth and bill had rented a room at the sheridan right across from the courthouse, and we discuss where we were going to meet and decided we were going to meet in his hotel room and that was command central if you will and later on we were joined by bill koch. >> was the press anywhere around? >> they were in the hotel, room 416 because they wanted to avoid the press. >> they were in the room? the lawyers were in a hotel room? >> we went to great lengths to get there. heat of the tunnel underneath the capital and came out and had driver to put him inside the garage.

but right across the street -- >> i walked down the hallway behind judge morton's court room, down the stairs, got in the elevator and we have a turtle there also, got in that car, drove out franklin road, turned around, came back, went in the hotel. if it became known it wouldn't have worked. secrecy -- >> his wife who was here tonight -- [applause] >> about to have will lose right there. he was born that morning. >> you meet in the hotel room, to a conclusion?

>> it took a lot of time. out on the bed, there were two beds and one chair and we alternated with the chair, a lot of cigarette smoke in that room -- >> seemed like a long time. >> couldn't have been two hours. >> amazing to me how much we discussed in those two hours. it was rapid-fire, it was bill koch laying out -- >> from the attorney general's office. >> arguing these points point by point with the attorney general and talking to you and talking to lieutenant governor back and forth until finally there was a resolution, that we resolve all these issues, a simple thing, what exactly is the oath? does lamar have a tie? how are we going to do it?

does the legislature needs to be alerted? all sorts of issues that were discussed in a short period. >> so that hotel room--where are you? you know the challenge is there. you know what i got to do and don't want to do it. with whom are you talking? >> you talked to them on the phone. louis donaldson was there and i asked tom to come over. >> it is 1:30. we were moving and moved, that was the day we were moving into the governor's mansion. all of our stuff was transported to the governor's mansion except a few things, the house was cold, lesley, who was here is

sick, and pregnant with will who was here, in school that day. and she was sitting there wondering why these men were doing and she said can somebody make up his mind? this is what could happen. and sworn in saturday this afternoon. that presents a whole group of issues. the biggest constitutional issues we don't do that in the united states. george washington said the most important election is not the election of the first but the second. whether we have a peaceful transition of power from one to the second of many countries don't do that. we always do so we know we

shouldn't do that and these technical questions of swearing in as a legislative ceremony. i knew enough to know that and legislatures can get very upset if you usurp their prerogatives and where do you have it? the former governor always goes to the transfer of power but you can't tell him. he might sign the pardons before you can get yourself sworn in to office and they have all these people coming from all over the state looking forward to saturday and the kickoff what you hope for four years of progress in the state. i was going back -- and we talked back and forth, i was thinking of all the things that could go on. the governor could. i sent on to see general wallace to is the head of the national guard. he is a democrat so we talked to him and needed to make sure he

was loyal to me and not the guy he worked for. keel hunt found out in his book i called gene roberts, head of the highway patrol, do you have 50 loyal members of the highway patrol in case we need them this afternoon? if there's a contest about who the governor is and who is literally in charge and we had the issue of the law, who would attend and my thought was the wanted to look as much like a real swearing in as we possibly could which is why i insisted that joe henry come out of his hospital -- not his hospital bed but his recovery, and when wilder said we will stand behind you, that is kind of like you walk out and see how it is, so i said you invite me. you invite me.

he said no, we are not going to do that which i understood so the way we worked out within two hours was i literally wrote out a statement on a piece of paper which hal hardin read to them, we agreed to do this together which is how we eat eventually did that. that must have been resolved by 4:00 or 4:30 and we headed down, i went back home and got money and kids loaded up and off we went down to the supreme court building. that was another decision. if we were to do this. to we will tell before hand. >> the last issue you wanted me to attend. >> at what point chief justice henry was brought in to it and -- because -- you will meet in

his chambers and walked into that supreme court court room. did louis go to see him? >> louis, who could not be here tonight, went to see him. later in the afternoon, bill koch who is in honolulu by the way tonight celebrating and genie's 96 birthday, went to see justice henry and so there are two conversations about we need you to do this and two versions. >> i called him earlier in the day and asked i would like to come back, will you come back to seamy and block off 3:15, and he said ok and he asked me why. >> by this time, i can remember when being in office, all

morning long there was the sense on the part of the court house and they were asking questions on the heel and they were on to something and chris clarke would say the same. and nobody could really get their arms -- >> let me add this. louis donaldson and bill koch were the same alexander people whose polk to justice henry and hal hardin spoke to him earlier in the day, 2:00 or 2:30 time frame. that was before 2:00. larry daugherty might be here, telling me he went into justice henry's office. at that point you walk in the building. larry went into his office and

opened on justice henry's desk, the code, maybe the state constitution with the oath of office, larry said that was when his eyesight was better and as a reporter he could read upside-down and he saw it was the oath of office and larry thought he had it put together a 2:00 in the afternoon. the decision was made until 4:00 and he went wrong. >> i can also remember that jim kennedy called, and led me to believe something was going on and i tried to call you, hal hardin, to find out. >> you did that night. >> hal hardin doesn't handle it very well. >> another amazing thing i think about is nobody, none of the participants shared this information with their spouses

or anybody except really close -- you did accept lamar. bill leach, donna, his wife at baptist hospital, aides said i got to go, i can't tell you why. i just watched tv, what he said. and when i went home that night, people said you are here early, just watch tv. it was not a happy occasion. nobody is jumping up and down. everybody that participated -- it has never been celebrated. none of us have ever celebrated this. bill leach was a good friend of mine, the attorney general, many times, we never discussed this. >> events are not worth something. i do think the book that records the history deserves a celebration given tonight that i know it is going to be received

again and again. could we just go for a moment to justice henry's chambers now as the mullet approaches? i suppose you are arriving one after the other. we saw from but videos that all principal players were there. everyone, i guess they gradually gathered there. by that time the media is in the courtroom expecting and may be waiting for the moment, may be still doubting that the moment is going to occur. talked about the mood in justice henry's chambers? >> somber is the only way to talk about it and it moved fast. we didn't want anybody to know about this before it happened because the whole point was to do it before the governor found out about it and we must have

arrived at 5:30 and i was worn by 5:50 or 5:55 in the group assembled there and there's the question who is in charge of this group and i guess i am. i said you'd go here and we will go around here. i asked louis donaldson to give the prayer and chief justice to swear me in, somehow we had nothing left in our house, sounds trivial to say it but we have no clothes to wear. i was supposed to go to jackson that night myself to at thank you celebration, the last five or six and she was moving the children into the governor's mansion and all the clothes word there. she had just the family bible out, the one my great grandparents use in their marriage so we were able to bring that and we walked in there and went pretty quickly and started to leave and someone

said who is going to tell -- >> to set governor? does anybody remember? >> talk to everybody there. >> who says has anybody told governor blanton? >> was lieutenant governor wilder. this happened in the robing room at the supreme court building, the like the anti room just off the chamber. >> just getting ready to walk in. >> everybody is about to do this thing. sexually reforming -- has anybody told governor blanton about this. and it should be attorney-general bill leach. the more colorful story was

speaker -- so i will tell him, mid sentence and he says to jim kennedy, do you have his number on jefferson davis drive? they moved out of the residence, yes ado, see if you can get him on the phone. of black rotary phone dials the number and mrs. blanton answered the phone and -- the speaker is calling for governor blanton. is he in? old son and his voice comes on and lead's story, he said this is ned, bill leach has something to tell you. [laughter] get back in line and

go out the door. blanton's response was the hell you say. >> i think our time of telling this vital part of it, we have reached that point where we might go to the audience for questions or comments. we don't want to tell the whole story. you can all get the book if you hadn't gotten it all the way in or out or go back to it tomorrow. questions from the audience for comments? charles ogilvie? >> would you say john wilder said no, bill leach has said no, what did you drop on them?

>> none of us said know exactly. there was reluctance. en un natural reluctance to go along with something like this, extraordinary to think of it. the attorney-general was most reflective of all even though his opinion most recently was -- left us in a quandary. if i wish to rank them, bill was the most supportive of it and i always felt he would go a long and governor wilder would come along with the rest but the information i told them -- in more detail of what i told lamar, here it is, here is the intelligence that we know except for grand jury information but here is what i know. so you will know what i know.

at my point, i don't know if that is the legality of this to fast-forward the legal arguments, that if we litigate this in court let's and litigate it in court so let's go and do this and here are the consequences and unfortunately it was pretty clear what the consequences were going to be, i thought and still think that. >> consequences to emphasize that point, i knew bill leach well enough to have asked him before and i don't know when it might have been but i ask him does the constitution gives the governor the absolute authority to release someone from prison by commutation or pardon? absolute authority that cannot be overturned by anybody? he said yes. i said is that mean the governor could empty the prisons with his pardon a 40?

cheese said yes. >> there is the moment when louis donaldson has gone up to sort of secure -- >> after one of the things -- say you are in my shoes what do you do? i am supposed to go to jackson and i couldn't drive down so i sent louis donaldson and bill koch to secure the state capital. somebody said louis donaldson has been waiting his entire life for someone to ask him to do that. so they went over to a whole range of interesting stories about governor blanton's call, wanting to take his papers out in the capital -- you saw the

little clip from channel 5, you could actually be somewhere and there was no one covering this and they just happens to be there with their remote broadcast and they even interrupted the cronkite show to show it which was an unheard of thing to do and the one gap in that tape that you saw chris turns to his cohorts on the set and someone says i didn't know you could do that and the other guy says i didn't know you could do that either. that is what we were thinking. we didn't know you could do this. that is not the way you do things in the united states of america. you have this tremendous natural inclination to think of all the reasons why you can't do it, you have to do it. that is where we were.

>> after the swearing-in, in the first few hours or days were there any offices or persons in authority, that this was in fact a done deal? >> i don't -- i think there were some people who came to the capital and next morning who had not seen this on tv, is lee curtis peer? she is one, who showed up for work the next morning and didn't know this had happened and yet the world had turned upside down. >> the perception was the governor -- >> very new short-term receptionist in governor blanton's front office and worked for governor alexander and fortress the government for 30 plus years. >> on that question, one, based on bill koch's advice, i asked the new cabinet members to take their offices that make no

decisions between the swearing-in on wednesday and saturday and those decisions could not be challenged later by anybody so we tried to minimize that but the question you ask, the most miraculous thing about the whole thing is not that something didn't go wrong. that is pretty miraculous but nobody challenged it. the only challenge came because of the positions that if the pardon is hadn't been delivered, i said lock the prison doors, don't let anybody out. roger humphries got out before i locked the prison doors because that was earlier in the week but the rest of them didn't. they suit and they got out because courts eventually held that once the governor issues the pardon or commutation, that is it. >> for those who don't know who roger humphrey is, was, please read the book.

keel hunt captured the drama of that story. it is a stunning story. lee smith was part of it. frank sullivan had his hand up. >> as much detail as you have in your book, you had to encounter conquest. what was the biggest conflict you had in your interviewing process that you had to resolve? >> whether it was timing or necktie or -- can i say that? that was true. the answer is it was tom's necktie but we respect mr. donaldson. i say that because in fact i was struck by how much common ground there was in the shared memories of these people 30 years later.

it was astounding. i title that chapter the dance. how did that go? very complicated but bill koch was very patient with me understanding how that worked, but there was an extraordinary level of agreement this many years later and i thought that was profound. >> one of the -- >> you heard from roy blanton. either the speakers or bill leach, did anyone hear from him? >> i can tell you i did not with an exception. vanderbilt did an archive in the library and is here but papers as governor, nobody would bother. they found all kinds of things. one thing they found was an

envelope addressed to me with ray blanton's return address and it was the key to the governor's office. he had mailed it to me. later on that night i went back to my office and we had code phones with blinking blue lights and i pushed the button and it was the governor's highway patrolman. i can't remember his name. this is so and so, the governor wants you to call. it was a very poignant moment. talking about resistance. one person that did resist was the governor's council who was walking out of his office with the computations and louie stopped him. >> tells that story. >> eddie fiske had been out and was no longer the governor's council, he was arrested in the middle of the month before.

so judge robert willard was the governor's legal counsel and so when they went up to secure the capital, they made their way to judge willard's office, on the ground floor, and he was preparing some final paperwork and was putting it in his briefcase. ..