he reports on how manson was able to influence and motivate the members of the manson family to murder seven people on successive evenings in august of 1969. this is just over an hour. [applause] >> thanks a lot. when i write nonfiction i basically start with a single premise, that events never happen in a vacuum. anything is the results of many past actions where different people grew up, what they thought, how they mix together, and then at. there is no one simple answer to anything. when i do write these books such high-tech ticket to american history. when i wrote about bonnie and clyde was really writing about the depression and growing up

poor in the dust bowl. when i wrote about the gunfight at the o.k. corral which was not actually a gunfight and wasn't at the o.k. corral, but the accidental shooting in an empty lot on fremont street just did not have the same sort of ring to would. the first people were going to write this history. wanted to write about the settling of the last part of the american frontier. and about three and half years ago it occurred to me that a lot of that unique time in american history that we know as the late 60's is either getting completely forgotten or else people are sort of putting their own little twist on it. oh, yeah. some people say, a lot of sex and drugs. wasn't that silly and cute. other people remember the passion over the war, the students marching in the street. other people remember the space

age with the cold war still going on. tom hayden said when i interviewed him for this book that he does not think there has ever been a couple of years of american history where we were bombarded almost every day with an event that just almost seemed impossible to comprehend. we had assassinations of beloved leaders or at least controversy leaders that would loom in history. we had a war that was dividing the country. there was more racial violence in america than there had ever been since reconstruction and worse in many different ways, yet it was also a time when there was great literature being written, great music being composed, the mets won the world series, which for those of a certain age will understand this was about as miraculous as things could get. and then there was the great day

that a man first walked on the moon. on that day when that happened at spawn ranch the women of the manson family were doing what they always did every day. charles manson had told the women that there role as dictated by the bible, as dictated by the beatles and dictated by him, they must be subservient to men at all times. and so all of the women in the family every afternoon were required to form a semicircle. mend things because that is what women were supposed to do. and so they're sitting there selling, leslie van houten and patricia kremlin go. the woman who was known as squeaky. sandy good, susan atkins, linda

to say behan, names you ever before in other contexts. and one of them says, do you know what? heard there was a man on the man today. and the other women started laughing matter. and these folks who follow the man who preached, he was perhaps the second coming of jesus christ, there was an apocalyptic race war about to erupt where the blacks would annihilate the whites, the manson family during the war would hide in a bottomless pit in the mojave desert where, as they head, they could change in to any pretty little being they wanted to, including ferries or else. when the war would be over and the black race would stand alone they would not be able to govern

themselves. the manson family would come out of the hole in the desert and rule the world. these women who believe that when one of them had the nerve to claim that a man was walking on the moon. they laughed and said, oh, come on. somebody is making that up. end of the three years i've worked on this book i don't think i heard an anecdote from anybody that quite captured the manson families buying and to what they were hearing from their leader, and as he ordered them blocking out the outside world where he told them it was not safe, that if they ventured into it without him there would never last. it was not my intention to write the book about charles manson when i decided to write about the late 1960's. as i always do, i made a list of

people or events that i thought would be interesting for me to know more about. and i thought at first i might write a book about the weatherman. i think you folks might remember them. in that era in any given week of 1969 or 1970 according to government records the average just over 40 domestic terrorist bombings in this country. that's every week. we have seen in recent years terrible attacks on our country from outsiders. in 1969, 1970 the attacks were coming from ourselves. but when i started to lick it that i thought, their just aren't specific individuals that want to build this around. it's such a complex of thing. in trying to capture all the

different named players we might lose the thread of the story. what else? then i started to write about the students for democratic society. again, all of you are too young to remember this. i remember being in college and the campus sts faction would want a meeting. talk about overthrowing the government. we had to stand up, bring the war back to america. and i was in college being able to pay my way by working at kmart because my father, the retired air force sergeant had a little bit of pension coming from the government. i didn't want the government overthrown then, even if i did not agree with everything. but tom hayden has written about that. mark cried also. bill airs, whether we agree your not, they have told their story. i think they told it pretty completely. what is left? and so i tried to ask myself, who is one person from the 1969-

'70, that time in american history, whose name would be recognizable not just a folks our age, but people who bring under, maybe even people who were still in college. of course there is one answer to that. and that left me to do two things with this book and was going to write. after reading the other books about charles manson -- and now believe you know there have been many. if you wanted to collect each one of them, my last count was by reputable publishers since 1975 there have been 171 books about charles manson. if you throw and the self published books -- and to this day i am sure many of you realize he has active followers who are publishing their books on the internet. all of these things have been written, but i never found a

book that was the one i wanted to write, the definitive manson book written by his levinson and curtis called helter-skelter. so far sold almost eight and half million copies. my book is breaking in its first week in print. it will be the new york times best-seller list number 13, which means i am only million 300,000 behind. if you folks are in a good mood and have a lot of friends, maybe you can move mia. i hope so. so generous and kind and helpful to me in the riding of this book, i cannot stress is generosity enough. encourage entry told the story pretty much of the arrest of the manson family and the trial of followed. they did it brilliantly.

i wanted to write a book that did two different things. first of all, i wanted to find out how charles manson became the person he was in 1968 and 1969 and 70. all we ever had to go on and what has been accepted by everybody is what manson himself wants to tell people. illegitimate son of that teenage prostitute mother to care so little that she once tried to sell them for a pitcher of beer. as a child he was abused by the on goals she would have moved into their home one after another. when he was nine or ten she was so tired of having to even try tough perfunctorily take care of him that she threw him into the juvenile justice system where he suffered greatly. from there his life turned bad. he did not know who his father

was. do not think his mother knew his father was. so he said he finally learned even as a child that the street was his father in prison was mother. that is what everybody pretty much accepted. i decided to check it out. the first part is, let's look at the man's whole life. how did he get there? the second question, where was the and what kind of things are happening in our culture that made possible for a charles manson to recruit a few dozen followers who would do these kinds of got off things. again, history does not happen in a vacuum. i am kind of convinced that if charles manson had been paroled from prison in nebraska and ended up and, of instead of los angeles and tried these things he would have been in pale on the pitch fork stuck up and feel

the scarecrow. he was in the right places at the right time. how did that happen? so what i thought i would do because you folks tonight, you have heard over and over during the years, people's different versions of what happened on the nights of august 9th and 10th 1969. that will tell you, there is some new material in my book because in the course of my interviewing quite a few people, including especially patricia chemical who was involved in both nights and besides a couple of sound bites and the 25th anniversary of the murders has never given a full account of it . she explained it all in such depth and with such honesty and clarity that she ended up answering the final couple of questions that the lapd has said about the murders all these years. most of all, if it's okay with you, i would like to talk very

briefly about four parts of this book, charles manson, his life, and the world he grew up in. let's begin with his childhood. we talked just a minute ago about all the things manson claims. guess what? they are all lies. and it is all documented. i put 21,000 miles on my car in the last couple of years and went everyplace see what. a lot of allies can be proven with simple visits to county courthouse. charles manson -- manson was not illegitimate. his mother when she was 15 was unhappy with their fundamentalist christian mother who believe that girls should not cut their hair, with their makeup and above all should not do that terribly simple thing that led to every evil in the world, dancing. we now her side of the story

because his sister nancy never before interview anywhere, and i found her. she told her mother's side of the story for the first time, gave me dates and places that i could go try to look. here is what happened. this is what everybody in the family knew. the real manson family including charles himself. when she's 15 kathleen maddox living in kentucky crosses a bridge over the river to a town called ironton. sneaks out of the house, goes because there are some close their rig people can dance. and that one of these clubs ritzy race is the name of it, she meets a man, an exciting call the man, 29 years old. his name is colonel scott. colonel is his given name, not a military rank.

but the colonel does not mind letting the 15-year-old girl think he is a war hero. of course, he actually works in the factory. he is married and has two children. that is the party leaves out. not long later kathleen becomes pregnant. she is 15. and she tells colonel scott, the colonel announces that he is going to do the right thing, but he has just been called away by the army. he is going to come back in just a couple of weeks and it will take care of everything. ..

and knowing kathleen is pregnant with another man's child, he marries her about five months before the birth. there was never any question that charles manson was an ill legitimate baby. his birth certificate was filed a few months after his birth. william was listed as the father. the whole family and charles himself knew throughout that the real father was colonel scott. no doubt. the later rumors that manson hated and feared blacks because he had a black father, never

ever. manson an kathleen's marriage lasts a few years. he divorces her. her son is left with strangers or offered for a pitcher of beer. she did what many young women that ae do and sticks him with her mother sister and her husband and daughter. he's cared for always. kathleen and her brother luther, spectacularly botch an attempted robbery. they try to use a ketchup bottle, poke it in somebody's back and say it's a gun. they call them the "idiot ketchup bandits." she gets ten years luther gets five. never once before then or the

next fifteen years was there any record she was arrested for prostitution, ever warned about being a prostitute. she bundled a crime. she never should have tried to admit it. charles manson was no the the child of a prostitute. not then, not ever. he goes to live in west virginia, a little factory town with his uncle bill, aunt glenna, and cousin jo ann who was three years older. i found jo ann who has never talked before. and if you get a chance to look in the book you'll see that the photograph section shows pictures of him from his baby pictures and his wedding am bum. they come from his sisters. they tell the real story. here is an interesting one jo ann told me about charlie. from the time he came to live with them five years old he's

scary. he's violent, he lies about everything. the first person he ever physically attacked was jo ann. he picked up a sickle in the backyard and tried to stab her. her parents stopped him. his explanation she made me do it. it wasn't my fault, she's older than me. i was defending myself. in first grade, not only told to me by joann but corroborated by other people who were in school with manson at the time, first grade, he organized some girls in his class to up a boy he doesn't like. the principal comes looking for charlie. his explanation? the girls were doing what they wanted to do out of their own -- that's what they wanted. you can't blame me. the same defense he uses all the years later with tate. his mother gets out of jail, she wants her son back.

and they live in a number of places where, no, there are no uncles coming in all the time. but charles becomes an incorrigible cutter of school. his mother gets a job in a grocery store where he immediately starts shoplifting, and begging the different patrons to buy him candy. he is scary. she's talks to her mother, to her sister, to the school authorities. all is documented. what can i do to help charles? and the common agreement is there are some schools for boys where maybe he'll learn to follow some rules. let's have him go there. these were not juvenile detention centers. they didn't have fences around them. when they didn't have fences around them he ran away. when he would run away he did things. the picture on the cover of the book is a picture of charles

manson at age 13. he's appearing before a judge in indianapolis on charges -- get this one, of armed robbery. thirteen. the question is which rigid detention for boys will he be sent to in manson, even then, knows how to convince people that he's not that bad. and he convinces this judge that he, charlie, is a devoted catholic. and so the judge sends him to boystown, where three days after he arrives he steals a priest's car and heads out for the coast. from there, yes, he goes to juvenile detention in places that are pretty bad. things do happen to him. as a grown adult 5'4".

he's a tiny, scran any little thing. when he says he was abused by other boys, beaten unfairly by some of the fair. yes, that may have well happened. this is also true, within the first six months of entering these facilities charles manson is not the victim but the predator. attacking other weaker kids. organizing boys to attack somebody else. he has a bad record, and that ends the first part of where is this charles manson coming from. with this note, in later years, with people i interviewed, when he was in san francisco and los angeles, he would brag to other people that when he was in the juvenile detention system, he would play what he called "the insane game." to keep bigger boys away from him, to intimidate staff he

would act as crazy as he possibly could. screaming and he said laughing that was the beginning of the part of the life that he calls "becoming the man of a thousand hats." that no matter who he meets, he can change his personality on a dime to make you like him. to make you trust him. he's very proud of this. when he is about to turn 18, his aunt glenna still living in nevada said if you'll be released from the prison system, he can have a home with his uncle and aunt and long suffering cousin jo ann, his mothers lives in wee land.

he's let out, and decides to live with his grandmother who lays down the edict. he can only live with her, rent free, if he will go to the church services with her every sunday and join the teen club after ward. the house where he and his grandmother lived is still there. the church is right across the street, and some of his classmates from the teen club are still alive. they're still willing not only to remember charles manson, but they have photographs. which are in the book. charlie wants to impress these kids, and to tell you something about his mag low mania he figured once he set them straight about the world they would follow him. the church didn't approve of

halloween. don't want to have those demonic influences, but the teenage kids in the church teen group, you know, they see their friend from school having halloween parties, they want one too. so the church elders make this concession. fine, you can have a hot dog cookout at virginia's house. you can come and even wear costume as long as they're not demonic. charlie is excited. he comes dressed as a carnival barker. we have pictures with the hat and the band around the arm. and the kids let charlie in on a secret, they're going do something special. they're going to take some aspirin and drop them in a glass of coca-cola, because when you dissolve aspirin in soda pop, it

gets you drunk. ssh! don't tell! charles tells them, that's nothing. he brags that in his recent past, he's been shooting up. they have no idea what that means. first, they think maybe he's talking about shooting a basketball. then they think he's talking about shooting road signs. they decide whatever it is, we don't like it. charles manson is shunned by the kids his age. that's not the end of it, because soon after that suddenly charlie is going steady with the prettiest girl in town. a nice little girl named roslyee. before you know it they're going get married. people remember this is a situation where the wedding came late and the baby came early. except there was no immediate issue.

charlie's grandmother, you remember the one that never cared about him. gave a wonderful wedding reception for them in her home. we have pictures of that. pictures of the proud mad docks family surrounding charlie and her mother standing in the corner glaring. she doesn't like this. and charlie goes straight. lasts about four whole months. he gets a steady day job, he works in the town grocery store in the evening, but there's just not enough money to go around. so charlie gets another outside job. he starts stealing cars. wheeling a few miles to the north is controlled by the mob. he can't do it there. he goes across the river in ohio stealing cars and driving them to florida to sell, which is a federal crime. though charlie doesn't think about that. meanwhile, manson's mother gets

tired of wheeling and she moves to california. this is a woman that never left charlie. never wanted him. he decides he and his wife will go to california to live with kathleen and they do. and charlie decides to augment his living again in las vegas by riding around in stolen cars. a cop catches him, he's brought to the justice, and in the process, it's learned that he drove strollen cars to florida, which is crossing state lines. federal offense. should be prison time, charlie pleads the fifth. his wife is pregnant. he had a terrible childhood, he suffered greatly in juvenile detention. his judgment is bad. show mercy on him, and the court orders some studies psychology studies and the minute charlie is out of the courtroom he immediately steals another car,

putses are his wife in and went indianapolis. he's brought back to california and spend three years in prison. now begins the interesting part. his wife visits for awhile then runs off with a trucker. she gives tboirt manson -- birth to manson's first child. manson's mother bee seeks law officials with please, let him out. he can live with me. i can give him a good home. there's a little problem, for charles manson, prison indeed became his educational system. not the way you might think. with incredible timing. remember we said history doesn't occur in a vacuum? the year before charles manson goes to federal prison, the whole concept of the prison system is punishing the people who are in jail. make the years they're in

custody so horrible they'll never commit crime again. the resit recriticism rate is horrible. they're going do something differently. they're going to have class for inmate and teach them skills that will help them function in the outside world when they get out. sounds reasonable. he enrolls in a class, and this class features the philosophy and the writings of the man who will become charlie manson's personal guru and his name is dale carnegie. during the research for the book, i went to nashville, tennessee where i met a man named phil cofman who was in prison with manson at this time. i said, phil, you know, i keep hearing that when people met

charlie manson it was like he could stair in their soul, he knew what they were thinking. do you think he had some mystic power. phil cofman now 80 years old bigger than any five of us in the room riding the biggest hair lee i have seen in my life laughs so hard he almost falls down and screams. i've been waiting almost a half a god damn century for someone to ask me that question! i took a step back tbrinching and i said, well? man soon would come out of the dale carnegie classes, come back to the cell and practiced the lines he heard in class, because he thought he knew how to become a successful pimp. these lines were going help him get women! later on, when i interviewed leslie, patricia at the california institute for women

prison in california said, what did charles manson say to you the first time he met you that made you want to follow him? he said this, he said this, he said this. word for word out of chapter 7 "how to win friends and influence people ." the resumes in the dale carnegie class. always let the other fellow feel that your idea is his own. number two, the only motivations any of us have are the desire to be famous and the desire for sex. and then number three, always dramatize your desires. actors do it. singers do it. you must do it too to get attention. manson took it to heart. also studied scientology because

he was very interested in how they could get people to accept that faith, and also in the concept that doing bad things is part of becoming good. you have to do bad things to overcome them, then you move up and you lose desire for everything. which manson took as there's no bad, there's no good, there's no life, there's no death. charlie is ready to go. he gets out of prison and sets himself up as a nymph los angeles and back in prison in about four months. he's stoant a tougher prison. flee people ever tried to escape. one drowned and never found the body of the other two. there is charlie manson back in prison. this time he hears something else that changes his life. he hears music of the beatles.

immediately starts telling everybody he's going to be more famous. he always loved music. his cousin jo ann remembers him picking out song on the piano their family had when charlie was growing up in poverty and every birthday he would gate new suit of clothes and he wanted a hat and had a pony once at the birthday. he was abused and never had anything at least to hear him tell it. he has a guitar in prison writing his own songs. he tills the prison authorities he's going to be a song writer and entertainer and make his living that way. gets outs, next is this part of his life. he's released in california and has a friend in berkeley who invites him to go there. and overcome by the student protesters particularly the black panthers who scare the hell out of him.

when he was in prison he was racially prejudice he wouldn't talk or acknowledge black or hispanic prisoners. but the black muslim movement in the prison impressed him. he started telling other prisoners blacks ever organize if they have enough guns, of course he didn't use the black. they can wipe out a good part of the white race. that idea goes back there. comes to san francisco, this beautiful city, just during the summer of love in the book i describe how height ash bury not what thought it was going to be. you have an influx of thousand and thousand of young people. disfranchised, problems problems with their own families, they are coming to san francisco to height ash bury. every loves you. you come to a neighborhood that support a couple of thousand

people at most. then you have almost 30,000 teens showing up every week. they are overflowing. they are starving in the street. they are sick. dr. david e. smith of san francisco starts the freedom clinic to treat sick hippies who can't afford anything else. which plays a big parking lot for charles manson. dr. smith, when i interviewed him said he knew charlie man sob well. he goes toorntd golden gate park, the pan handle, and there in golden gate park, according to drft -- dr. smith you would have a dozen guru each -- preaching. you might have a hindu there, a. baptist here, an atheist her. he said manson would stand around listening to these people. then he would come back to the free clinic and practice the

best lines on the sick hippies waiting to be treated. he would got park and using the best of everyone else would offer his own teachings. that's how he got some followers. one at the time. in other words, charles manson is charsmatic. he's not a stupid man even though he's uneducate. he's crafty, candley. and he knows how to take the best of other people and it turn it to his own. a lot of what comes next you have heard read about before his decision to move the "family" as it grows to los angeles so he can be a rock and roll star. hangs on to dennis wilson, moves in a time in theful wonderful log cabin mansion off sunset boulevard. becomes disenhanced with wilson

because he can't get haim recording contract. and my interview in the book with people there at the time from greg jacobson to any number of folks, the thing people don't know is dennis wilson wasn't the only rock star that manson tried to work through. he got to be buddies with neil young, neil young tried to push manson's music to the warner record label. they didn't sign him. try to cozy to john philips. all them are hearing manson's music and don't think it's special. charlie knows they're wrong. the only way he can get the record contract that he clearvely deserves so you to go above the rock star. that means the boy wonder produce of top ten hit of the time. a guy named terry melcher at colombia. doris day's son. the guy who amaze thebirds to a power house. took a local garage band and

made them. all he had do was audition for melcher to get the contract. there it would go. at this point things start to go pretty wrong in several ways. out on spahn ranch a drug deal goes wrong. a friend of manson's and cup of the manson women go to gary's house music teacher to get the money out of him. he gave them the bad -- in theory, the bad drugs. he claims he doesn't have any money. they are beating him up. manson shows up he has a favorite weapon, a sword he took off -- he acquired from another biker. slashes his him. leaves -- they keep trying to beat him up. didn't work. finally calls manson and said do what you need do. they kill gary.

but at the same time charlie has been preaching about this race twhar is coming. and he's telling the member of the "family" and again i have it separately from leslie and patricia. it's in the bible book of revelation which he helped memorize with his grandmother. i have the family bible where she underlined appropriate passages for him to memorize. it's in the bible in revelation there's going to be a great thing happening. the beatles are telling us about it. and the whiteout. backbird fly, that means something. helter scelter coming down fast. and he tells his followers you have two choices. you can believe what i'm telling you, and when the time is right we go out in the desert to save yourselves or you can think i'm wrong and stay. if you do that, one of two things will happen. the blacks are going to win. either they'll kill you, or they'll make you their slave

because they're going to do with white people. that's karma. white people made black people slaves now they're going to do the same thing. there are drug sessions every day. manson's got them isolated on spahn ranch. there are physical beatings for some of the women. it's indoctrine nation. should have worked? clearly no, people shouldn't be believing that. on the other hand it was a time when a lot of people thought the beatle were telling us what to do. at love americans including some very prominent politicians thought a race war was inevitable. manson is picking up on the culture the day and turning it to his own end. with the gary murder they try to make it look as though black panthers or black militants committed the crime. they try to leave a bloody paw print. manson figures what will happen then the police and media will buy to the fact that black

militants are killing white people. that will kick off the revolution. and kick off helter-skelter. we have talked about this in some length. he seems to agree that manson never really expected that this was going cause a race war. but his followers were getting a little shaky. giew rues -- guru con standpointly have to if you can't go things for them, then they're going to find somebody else. his followers, remember, have just seen charles manson who sometimes said he's the second coming of jesus. he they have seen charlie fail. leslie said the day terri mel melcher turned him down is the day he acted differently.

he started acting mad. so he's failed. he's got do something. this murder of gary doesn't accomplish at all what manson said it's going to. he tries to drive off in one of his cars. the police catch him. they find a bloody knife in the car. it's gary's blood. they take them to custody and manson is afraid. because they can always turn manson in to save himself. patricia said within the "family" he doesn't know who it was. they get together and someone start to talk about copy cat murders. somebody had seen a movie about that. maybe if there were more murders, and it looked like the black panthers had done it, then the police would to think it couldn't have been bobby because the killers are still out there and let bobby go.

now manson incorporates dale carnegie. let the other fellow think the idea is his. and on the night of august 9th, first he calls in text watson. we know a lot of conversation because it's repeated in watson's book and because some of the other family members later would discuss it. the gist is manson is saying you have decided that you're going go out and kill people to try to get bobby free. of course, you're thinking they have to be really important, rich people. that way the media can't ignore it. now, everyone knows in the family that terry melcher moved from his wonderful house, but even though they don't know exactly who is living there now. know you have to be rich and famous to afford the place. as well as text watson is going to leave this group that night.

watson has been to that house before. he knows how to drive there in the middle of the night. that is why that show chosen. as patricia tells us, manson and watson emerge, and watson tells three women patricia, susan, linda go change your clothes in something dark. get your knives. it's not unusual for them to say that. they were going around -- they expected black panthers to come after them any time. so they go get the knives. the women have no idea what is about to think. they think maybe they're going break to a place and steal thicks. they have been doing it lately. they get in the car, and start driving, they get lost a couple of times. but finally they clamber up -- have you been to the site of the murders? it's up a steep hill. narrow winding road.

signs everywhere to be ware of deer. only after they get over the fence does watson fell them they're going to kill everybody inside. you know what? they go ahead and do it. i won't give you the blow by blow. it's pretty awful. patricia was honest but two things came out of the interview that hadn't come out before for certain. the first is when the murders were complete and they went back to spahn ranch. manson is waiting outside the gate and interrogating them. did you make it look bad enough? did you write the words in blood. they explain they did some of that. but sue -- sue san lost her knife. manson, furious, tells them to wash off the blood. he jumps to the car and drives back to the house where he does some rearranging of things at

the murder site. the only way that the women who were there knew that happened is during the trial murder scene photographs are shown. in particular, what shocked patricia is back in one corner of the house there was a big american flag. now she looks at the pictures and the american flag is taken out and draped dramatically over the couch in front of where sharon tate's body is lying. manson went back and did some rearranging. then there's a second thing, when the bodies were discovered, the police arrested the young caretaker, he was on the ground. everybody else was slaughtered. nothing happened to him. they thought he was the obvious suspect but later proved he was not.

this is why william lived. patricia chases abigail to the lawn and starts stabbing her. watson is doing the same. patricia is not sure she killed abigail and yells i don't know if she's dead. he yells you finish her. kill whoever is in the back house. the caretaker is behind the house. patricia starts down the hill and turns the corner, has a dizzy spell. stops for a minute. then goes back and said to watson, i looked in the window there was nobody there. that's why the kid lived. that's why they didn't kill anybody else that night. then there's the details of the second night. the run in to the desert when they are hiding. the investigation were the investigative teams don't get along and pretty much don't talk to each other. the arrested the main "family" in the desert. brought back to l.a.

susan decides to impress some fellow women prisoners telling what she's done. dies everything together. we get the trial. this one last point, according to the women, just before the final arrest in the mohave desert, manson gems the -- gathers the "family" around him and said if she's arrested again he's going play crazy charlie for as long as it takes until he convinces everybody he's insane and let him go. the rest of the "family," if they see him acting like crazy charlie should never believe it. what we have seen since is an act that is successfully been carried on for over 44 years. when you talk to the other family members now, they say, well, that's his crazy charlie act. he still writes to the other family members in prison trying to keep them loyal. i was talking to patricia and

she got a letter and said you want to change the world but you let the world change you. he has active followers today. he as an organization atwa air, trees, water, animal he's a committed environmentalist. if you would care to send to send a big enough donation he might send you. he gave me permission to repuce. it runs mostly swastica, spiders, and the world helter scelter with two l. it's a different book. not just talking about manson in los angeles we're talking about his whole life. the time he lived and acted in. so i leave you with this thought again.

historically doesn't happen i think he's held us captive because he was not put to death when he was supposed to be. he lived on. he is still here. william wrote a brilliant book and try to kill a president of the united states. he's with us. he's not going away. if my book accomplishes anything i hope puts anymore a little more perspective to understand who and what he is. you have been nice paying attention. i appreciate the heck out of it. take care. whatever you do, don't listen to people who tell you they can take your life and name better. all so you to do is follow their commands word for word. thanks, folks. thank you for listening. [applause] [inaudible] if anybody has a question,

sure. [inaudible] i don't want you to feel any pressure with the questions. [laughter] >> i think you said you interviewed manson? >> i wrote manson for about five months every day asking to see him. he lost most visitor privileges for having two cell phones in the cell. for what his followers describe as a lie, but according to the authorities he also fashioned a toothbrush handle to a shank and caught him. he finally wrote me bookmaking it clear he didn't want me writing the book. and helpfully turned e-mail address and contact information to current followers who got in touch. some are actually, i think, pretty nice people. they are very protective of him. and later he gave me written permission to use some of his art in the book. perhaps thinking it might be a

good advertisement. if you of are overwhelmed by the stuff in the book, you know how to get in touch with him, i guess. >> you never actually met him? >> i haven't. he's written to me. i've written to him. here is what i think would have happened if i had. he's carefully organize straited his few appreciates through the media anyway. i think if i got the twenty minute visitation we would have gotten twenty minute of crazy charlie. i think the only purpose it would served is me describe what he looks like now. we have been to be get his picture. his facebook page, which has posted a reply to my book they want it understood none of mr. mannson's real friends cooperated with me. so i guess that is the fair statement. i standby everything i've written if you check the note in every chapter it's --

anyone else? shall we sang a manson-composed song together? i admire these folks too much to sing. they don't need to suffer like that. >> i was going ask you. i know, i had some questions earlier about this. what his situation is prison or whether it's changed. you know, if he's -- if he was isolated. remaced isolated. how much contact he has with other prisoners. >> his first years in prison were tough ones. no warden really wanted him there because other prisoners might attack him and even kill him. what the heck, they have nothing to lose. you center to remember, he was sentenced to death and on death row for the first few years. >> the prisoners on death row immediately hated manson. it was because of mail. everybody else collectively on death row might get one or two

letters a week. manson got 2 or 300 a day. and infuriated the other prisoners on death row by not bothering to read them. he would throw them out. another prisoner's whose nickname was "pin cushion" braced manson and said why aren't you reading the letter. manson said he had trouble reading. pin cushy organized some other prisoners to read it. and couldn't believe the content of most the letter. everyone from people saying you're going hell and i'm glad. to you're misunderstood. you spoke the truth and stood up now they're going kill you. any number of young women asking manson's permission to join the "family." whenever to this day, the nature of the letters hasn't changed. it's still you're going hell.

or you're a hero or can i join the "family"? he is not isolated anymore. a prisoner tried to set him on fire at one point. he's in a special sort of holding area. he's a vegetarian. he still has his guitar. likes to play music, and above all else, he likes working in the hobby shop where he will make little metal spiders he will send to folks that have won his favor. and he always welcomes money if you want to send him some. but i have seen is a letter it was $20 and sent back a note what i could only get two pack of cigarette. so, please, remember three fig figures or don't bother. it's been a pleasure. thank you for coming out on a thursday night. if you read the book -- there's one more question. yes?

>> i was wondering if he comes up for parole any once awhile. is there any chance he'll get out. he'll never get out of prison on parole and neither other l the others. susan died of cancer. leslie came up for the 20th and turned down again. the manson stigma is such that no governor is going let one of the killers out. i will say this, i've spent an awful lot of time with her and patricia. one of the people asked do you think they're really sorry? yes, i do. they both -- when i would interview them, new i was writing things that were not necessarily going reflect well on them. they accepted that. they told me to tell me the truth. they didn't know the other people i was talking to. and i would have to have to hear

it from somebody else too to be on the safe side. they accept they did unforgivable acts. they are remorseble. they are resentful of manson. they should not have done of it. they are in their own ways attempting in prison to make some kind of amend. leslie finished her masters in philosophy and organized educational courses for young women prisoners who don't have much in the way of that. patricia trained rescue dogs to be guide dogs for blind. they are hopeful of getting out. i think they know they won't too. i can't say that in any way i condone anything they did. please understand nap i think they were honest and i think their honesty helped my book give a better truer picture. for that i thank them. how did he get off death row?

>> the california state court system declared the death penalty was unconstitutional. cruel and unusual punishment. so that is why we still have charles manson today. yes, sir? >> you mentioned bill. who was going around doing domestic bombings. he's known as unrepresented terrorist. it's odd, he's never gone jail. he's a professor now and launched barack obama's career, i think, in his living room. it's odd to contrast he's on the government payroll and established citizen now and bombing people in approximately the same era. >> it's interesting to talk to folks involved more violent student activity. i was able to interview mark for the book. as you know, rud, first became famous for the colombia university taking. he was one of the folks from the sds who helped organize it.

and rud was a revelation to me, and that i expected him to be very defensive about the things that happened. in fact he said the things we did, you know, they were foolish, they were wrong. he currently lives in the near state of poverty in new mexico serving as a teacher for poor indian children. he feels that it's a way he can make up for some things by not having luxuries and trying to help the very poorest in society. i did not talk to bill ayers he was not directly involved with anything i was writing about. so i can't really offer an opinion on that. yes, sir? >> [inaudible] >> microphone. >> there are still crazy people and people who follow crazy people. the times are different. could it happen again? >> sure. we had demagogues throughout history. one of the things that i've heard from a lot of people i

disagree with when manson is usually discussed, if they compare him to somebody they compare him to hitler. they were both artists, small men who maybe had the little man come mention. there's a difference, obviously. adolf hitler subverted an entire nation and lead the world to war. the best charlie manson could do was a couple of dozen goofed up kids at the time. yes, there will always be demagogue and maybe i'll closely telling you the comment someone made during an interview i remember most of all. it's someone from san francisco. dr. david e. smith. according to dr. smith, when vitamin sent and the l.a. pd are trying to put together the case against manson. they came to san francisco to interview the people that had known manson at the time. and dr. smith told much the same things he told me and i relayed some to you. he said there was one thing he kept trying to tell the

prosecutors that he wanted them to listen to and it seemed they never did. they said, based on your interaction with him, are you surprised charles manson did what he did? dr. smith said no, i'm not surprised that charles manson lead people to these terrible acts. i'm surprised there are so many other potential charles mansons who are still around. it's going to happen. it's going keep happening. again, if if we can just demystify these people. if my book accomplishes nothing else, i hope it is the demystification of charles manson. he's going to be with us constantly, but at least let it be the truth about him rather than the self-serving legend he put throughout all these years. again, i thank everybody for coming out. it was nice to see you.

[applause] >> thank you, everybody. come on up if you would like -- [inaudible] they are available at all the registers. [inaudible] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> how would is he? 78. >> how many parole hearings? >> seventeen, i believe.

and now another fourteen years. i think he's fixing to be around for -- [inaudible] [inaudible conversations] you're watching booktv. non-fiction authors and books every weekend on c-span2. we want to introduce you to first-time author randy zuckerberg. new books coming out. >> double author. >> how exciting is that? thank you. my books are "dot complicated for" for adults and "dot." i worked at facebook and wilding my own company. one thing i realized there's a whole world people are fascinated in. entrepreneurship, technology, and someone needs to demystify it for everyone else. so "dot-complicated" take a look at the tech-obsessed world we

live in and how it's changing our career and lives and our families. >> how do you do that? >> it's interesting but i talk a lot about finding tech life balance. there's been a lot of talk on work life balance, but if you go home from work and still buried in the cell phone, if you're sitting on your laptop next to your husband at home. you are still working. you haven't really found that work life balance. so i talk lot about how to find tech life balance in your home, if your job, in your love life, and kind of all area of communication. >> are you saying turn off the excise -- device and go off facebook? >> i think there's a time and place for everybody. i think if you take a little bit of time to unplug to remember there's a world when you look up from your screen you can enjoy it. it makes you all the more productive, refreshed, relaxed when you return to that online world, also. >> is there a danger of too much technology? too much onlineness?

>> i talk a lot in my book about the phenomena of being closer to friend but farther from friendship. we live in a world where you can literally keep in touch with thousand and thousands of strangers or everyone you meet. if you are buried in the device you are ignoring the people you love next to you. we can -- we can do amazing thing with technology. it's powerful. facebook is incredible tool. we have to remember that we yon the device not the devices owning us. >> are people recognizing that today? >> i think so. i think it's -- i've recently started to hear at love chatter about the pendulum kind of going back from being 24/7 connected all the time and wanting that, to people wanting some time to unplug to disconnect. there's vacation you can go on, digital detox. they collect your phone at the door or even there's a hotel in d.c. that locks your phone whup

you check in. [laughter] >> people responding to in? >> people want it. they are paying for it! i think people are really seeing recognizing and tech addictive and tech obsessed in our culture. we need reclaim a little of our life back. that also drew me to write a children's picture book. it's not just the adults that are tech obsessed. my 2-year-old will walk up to a picture prime and swipe it and ask for elmo. i wanted to write a children's picture book on the same topic of finding tech-life balance and remembering there's a beautiful world. >> when it comes to the children's book how do you approach it? >> it has a long, female tech character named dot. she's a [speaking in foreign [speaking in foreign spunky

little girl. she's skyping and talking to everyone all the time. her mom forces to go outside in the real world. the second half of the book she has amazing adventure that echo what she's doing on the digital devices. it has a very happy lovely ending. >> as a former mucting director of facebook, are you being dislocal -- loyal to your old company? >> i think facebook is amazing good. i had a friend showing facebook's role in shape election, olympics, and responding to natch ralt disasters pefn if you look what happened with the tornado last week and the ability for people to go on to social media and immediately provide relief there's nothing like that in the world. i just think we need to always remember to find the balance. you have people who you love in your life right there next to you. real people.

it's all -- everything in life in moderation. >> what does your brother think of your approach. >> i think he's excited for the book and, you know, we are just putting the finishing touches on it right now. nobody has read it yet. we'll see. >> where did you grow up? >> in westchester, new york. and. >> who are your parents? >> my parents are both doctors. my dad is a dentist. my mom is psychiatrist. my dad was tech savvy from early on. i talk about it a lot in my book. the first introdpux to the magic of technology that came through my dad and his office. and just the impact it had on the whole family. obviously the impact it has with facebook and how it changed all of us. >> when did you get involved in facebook? i got involved in 2005. i was working in a advertising agency in new york city, and i started to really hear about the

amazing site that my brother created how much it was taking off. and i was working in digital marketing at the time. he needed somebody who had some knowledge in digital marketing it was a pretty new space. and i went california and blown away by what i saw. i think, you know, when you read my book, it's -- i had an amazing experience at facebook. i use it all the time. the book is an extremely -- it's a positive, feel-good story how technology can make our lives so much more amazing. but also a little reminder to find balance. >> you also have a website. >> i do. dotcomplicated.com. >> in the book because of the longly time of publishing. i didn't want to put specific app and website. you never know in technology what might be outdated by november when the book comes out. i also launched a companion website where people can get

updated recommendation, break down, latest app. given to you in your big sister's guide to modern world style. >> if somebody goes on the website, and they register, what are they going to be able to consolidate? >> we have a twice weekly news all right you get that breaks down everything that is going on in the modern world. the latest tech how tech can help in your family, life, and career. we're also going launching our broader website around the same time as the book. you'll be able to get lots of great content from our team, guest writers, and join the community a little more in-depth. >> "dot" is coming out in november? >> that's right. november 5th just in time for the holidays. hopefully folks who are considering what to get for their tech-obsessed friends and family for the holidays can now have an adult book and a children's picture book. >> we have been talking with new

author randi zuckerberg. "dot complicated" and "dot" coming out in november. >> here are the best selling non-fiction books according to the "new york times." it reflects sales as of all 22nd. the ongoing online discussion starts september 3rd an online question and answer sex -- session will take place later in

the month. for more on these best sellers go to n y times.com and click on

"arts" when you write a book, i mean, a lot can go wrong. that's the way i approach the world. i have, i mean, i'm somewhat erratic in my writing and reporting. a lot can go wrong in 110,000 words. i've been pretty shocked by -- i guess, if there's been criticism from inside it's been mostly in the vein of how dare he? how dare an insider giveaway the secret handshake? how dare an insider talk about other insiderses in a way that perhaps might not be, you know, in keeping with the code we have in. people ask me why they are uncomfortable here. i welcome the discomfort i think this is journalism this is what we should do. invite the discomfort. read the book and engage on facebook and twitter.

look for daily book club posts on september 3rd. ..