examine billy's body to make sure he was in the grave at fort sumter. there is a lot of questions still unanswered about and which makes it so interesting as a historical phenomenon that intertwines fact and fiction and legend and myth all into one person and it's one book so it's a great thing for us to be up to have her students and faculty see that original piece. our three-hour program with author and journalist amy goodman and the host and executive producer of the international radio program democracy now. she joined us earlier this year to discuss war politics and grassroots activism. "the new york times" best-selling author has written a will written five books. here is her interview now. >> host: amy goodman in your

first book "the exception to the rulers" you right and we we are quoting the "washington post" here that amy goodman is the journalist as uninvited guests. >> guest: we are not supposed to be a party to any party. we are journalists. there is a reason why our profession journalism is the only one explicitly protected by the u.s. constitution. we are supposed to be the check and balance on power. >> host: in-app look also war and peace, life and death. that is the role of the media in a democratic society to provide a forum for this discourse to do anything less is a disservice to the servicemen and service women of this country. >> guest: that's right. you know i had just flown in from denver where is that they national conference on media reform and when we flew into the airport at denver airport where people hold up signs when you come out to pick you up.

as we were walking there were some soldiers there. they were going to be picking up the general and as we walked by they were waiting. i thought maybe the journalist behind me could see the sign for the general. we went back and i said do you watch democracy now? they said every day. i said really? why really? why do you watch? they said its objective then you cover the war. it is not about whether you are for or against the war. it's about covering the most serious decisions a country can make. i see the media as a huge kitchen table that stretches across the globe that we all sit around and debate and discuss the most important issues of the day. as you quoted their war and peace, life and death than anything less than that is a disservice to the servicemen and women of this country. they can't have these debates on military bases. they rely on us in civilian

society to have the discussions that lead to the decisions about whether they lived or died, about whether they are sent to kill or be killed. anything less than that is the disservice to a democratic society. >> host: one of the recurring things in your writing is the corporate media as you call it. what is the corporate media and what does it do or not to? >> guest: it's what most people see on television on most channels. not all, and that is the hope. abc, cbs, as cnn that turned to corporate support. the media that is brought to you by the listeners and viewers who are deeply committed independent information. what may cover war not by the weapons manufactures. when we cover climate change not brought to buy the oil, the gas in the nuclear companies. when we cover the health healthe

debate in this company -- country not brought to you by the drug companies or the insurance industry but brought to listeners and viewers by listeners and viewers who feel that information is power, that information is essential. it's the oxygen of the democracy. >> host: back to the "the exception to the rulers." our motto at democracy now is to break the sound barrier and call ourselves the exception to the rulers. we believe all media should be. what do you mean by sound barrier? >> guest: so often on the networks we get this small circle of pundits who know so little about so much. explaining the world to us and getting it so wrong. we go to the communities to talk to people in this country and around the world who are at the heart of the story. it's not always easy to find that people sense.

i think it's why so many young people at democracy now we have such a diverse audience in this country and around the world to quds it's that sense of people knowing what they are talking about because they're talking from their own experience. i think the best kind of journalism. providing a forum for people to speak for themselves. providing a forum for people from different strata of society to debate and discuss with each other the critical issues that hearing those voices of a great diversity of people, that is the role of journalism in a democratic society. >> host: went at democracy now! starting how was it funded? >> guest: it was started 17 years ago as the only daily election joint public broadcasting. it began on radio. it was february 1996. it was the second election of

president clinton ultimately but we didn't know that at the time. i was actually in haiti when i got the call from pacifica radio where the show was first established. and you know when they say do you want to host this daily election show, i thought it was a very interesting challenge because it covered places where people get -- when they go to the polls in places like east timor and places like haiti and the overwhelming majority of people vote. why i wondered in this country don't people vote or i should say the majority did not vote. i don't think it's apathy but i was interested to follow the primaries. a kind of map of the country and go go to the states and see what people are doing in their communities.

how are they civically engaged? so we did the show and the election happened and we thought that would be it but there was more on the show after the election than before. we were right broad casting and a few dozen community stations and it kept growing and in the week of septembeseptembe r 11th happened. that we coincidently, i'm talking about septembeseptembe r 11, 2001. we were slated to go on one tv station in new york a public access tv station we were broadcasting from an old firehouse that have been turned into a community media center. it was the closest national broadcast to the world trade center so on september 11 we were going to be broadcasting on television as well for manhattan neighborhood network. the now work right cast at 8:00 eastern standard every morning so the first plane hit the first

tower of the world trade center at 8:47. we were in this old firehouse. the second plane hit at 9:03. we still didn't know was happening. we were though doing a show that day on the connection between terror and september 11 ,-com,-com ma 1973 in chile when salvador again day the democratically-elected president died in the palace as the forces rose to power. unfortunately the u.s. forces that kissinger backed forces the nixon backed forces the itt backed forces and then i shut was a dictator who was ruthless who ran that country for 17 years. tauzin's of chileans were killed september 11, 2000 minus not the first time that september 11 is connected with terror. it has happened around the world

and september 11, 1977 in south africa the founder of the black consciousness movement was being beaten to death in the back of a van bipartite forces. he died in the early morning hours. guatemala september 11, 1990 and anthropologist was killed by guatemalan security forces sadly the u.s. backed guatemalan security forces. september 11, 1971 here in the united states in new york that was the attica uprising september 9 to 13th. two days later governor rockefeller would call up the state troopers and they would open fire on prisoners killing something like 79 prisoners and guards. killing 39 prisoners and guards and criticallcriticall y wounding eight others and injuring hundreds of others.

september 11 is not the first time that terror has come to u.s. soil. african-american slavery and september 11, 2001 was a horrific moment. 3000 people incinerated in an instant. we'll never know actually how many people died those who go unnamed and undocumented in life often go undocumented in death and they were the undocumented workers in the world trade center but it was horrific. i think it united us with people around the world who have been victims of terror. >> host: democracy now! amy goodman has been on television since 2001. >> guest: since that day and then we went on as emergency broadcasting. public access stations started calling saying we want to write

a broadcast. we were dealing with breaking news so i didn't think we could just melt them. we started fedex thing. the fedex guys will come and we would have huge garbage bags filled with videocassettes and we'd send them around the country. in a community where it started running on television the local radio said can we run the show? we were on community stations pacifica radio stations npr stations and public access stations and increasingly on pbs stations all over the country. we started in a few dozen community radio stations in 96 and today we are broad casting on over 1100 public radio stations radio stations across the world. our headlines are available in spanish for any radio station to take and also writing a weekly column for hearst for king features to provide a roadmap for people to really see and

read these independent voices that are so often not reflected in the media. but i think they reflect the views and and of perhaps most people in this country. >> host: funding? >> guest: it's divided by the networks that run us. foundations and listener and viewership support which is most critical. all over the country and around the world people are committed to it. >> host: "the exception to the rulers" journalists are not entertainers. we are reporters that go to places that are unpopular. where were you in november of 1991? >> guest: well, come in november of 1991 i went to the small country called east timor which at the time was occupy it by indonesia. i went there with my colleague a superb journalist in this country investigative

journalists. we had gone there the year before to investigate what was happening there and then we returned at the end of october, 1991. indonesia invaded east timor december 7, can 1975. at the time it was president ford and secretary of state kissinger. they gave the go-ahead for the invasion to one of the longest reigning dictators in the world and as they flew out the indonesian military invaded east timor by land by air and by sea just for a little history. they occupy the country. they closed it to the outside world and for the next 17 years or ultimately for a quarter of a century they slaughtered the people. one of the great genocides of the late 20th century. the genocide was worse than pol pot's cambodia. the difference was in terms of people knowing what was

happening and americans knowing is the pol pot was -- and the media would cover it because the president and secretary of state would talk about it and of course they should have covered it but in the case of indonesia invading east timor they were an ally of the united states or whether it was ford and kissinger on to reagan and bush and onto clinton they didn't talk about the atrocities in timor. so we went to east timor to do our job as journalists to go to where the silence was. with we found there was a real hell on earth. november 12, 1991 indonesia had occupy it for 17 years and it killed a third of the population , 213 thousand. on that morning the people went to church to the catholic church most of the country is catholic

and had been occupy by portugal for many centuries actually and they went to the church in del the the capital of east timor and after the church went out into the street in an unheard-of demonstration because in indonesia they didn't allow freedom of speech, freedom of press or freedom of assembly but two weeks before after we arrived the indonesian military surrounded the church and they had killed a young man named gomes in the church at point-blank range. they had a funeral for him the next day. a thousand people turned out in the cemetery and two weeks later they were having at commemoration procession. this land without freedom of speech press or assembly, the people marched into the streets. you would see a girl and her catholic school uniform and then a woman and her old tim murray's

garb. the girls and boys would pull out tanner said they had written on dead sheets and they would hold them up and they would say things like why did the indonesian military shoot our church? they appealed to president george h.w. bush at the time. they appealed to the u.n. someone to stop the slaughter. they will march to this treats free tracing the steps of the funeral two weeks before. some putting their hands up in the thee sign shouting viva sebastian. thousands from work school and home and they march to the santa cruz cemetery. when we got there we were interviewing people. why are you risking your life to do this and they would say for my mother, for my father, for my village that was wiped out and from the direction the procession had come we saw

hundreds of indignation soldiers carrying their u.s. m-16s in the ready position marching up to the crowd. 90% of the weapons used were from the united states. the indonesian army was arms trained and financed by the united states and on this day was no different. the soldiers marched 10 to 12 abreast. allen and i were interviewing people in the middle of the crowd and allen suggested we walk to the front of the crowd. we knew the indonesian military had committed many massacres they had never done it in front of western journalisjournalis ts and we thought maybe her presence would head off this attack is the always had our equipment because anyone caught talking to a journalist would be killed. i took my tape recorder out and slung it over my shoulder and i put my headphones on. i held up my microphone like a flag and allen put the camera but this had. allen was writing for "the new yorker" magazine at the time.

we walked to the front of the crowd and the soldiers walked up and rounded the corner. they swept past us and without any hesitation without any warning and without any provocation they opened fire on the crowd gunning people down from right to left. a group of soldiers gathered around me. they pulled my microphone away and waved it in my face as if to say this is what we don't want and then they took me down beating me with their rifles and boots. allen got a photograph of me opening fire and he threw himself on top of me to protect me. they took their u.s. m-16s. they slammed them against his skull until a fractured it. we were lying in the road and allen was covered in blood. the soldiers then put the guns to our heads in firing squad fashion. they had now stripped us of everything. the only thing i had left was my passport and in my skirt.

they were shouting to things. australia and polity. they were saying it was political for us to witness this but that is our job as journalists to go to where the silence is. and they were asking if we were from australia chanting australia, australia and we knew how dangerous that was for us. 17 years before when indonesia invaded east timor there were five australiaustrali an-based journalists covering the invasion. the indonesian military line them up against a house in the executed them all. there was a sixth journalist in the day after the invasion december 8, can 1975 he was reporting from a radio station for the world. he was the best western journalists there. they broken to the radio station and they dragged him out and they shot him with thousands.

we believe because years later australia and indonesia would sign the treaty dividing timor's oil between australia and indonesia. oil is the source of so much pain in the world and so is the life there with allen covered in blood and they are shouting at us australia with guns to our heads we shouted back no america, america. i had thrown my passport at them i was born in washington d.c.. they would kick me in the stomach when i would get my breath back and as others join the firing squad i would say america, america. at some point they take the guns from our heads we believe because we were from the same country. they would have to pay a price for killing us that they would never have to pay for killing them. a red cross jeep pulled up and the driver of the red cross jeep

picked up this old man who was in a sewer ditch next to us. every time the soldiers beat him he would put up his hands and a prayer sign and they would smash the buts of their rifles into his face. we drove off to a hospital and they stopped us to get away from us and we drove as a human mouse to the hospital. they hung off the top of the ge. at the hospital the doctors and nurses started to cry when they saw us. not because we were in worship and the people. that we were being dragged there. i think because of what we have represented. not just allen and i but i think americans. not just timor but people all over the world. the represent two things, the shield and the sword.

they also see the american people as the shield. they would call a congress member and say don't do that. people can march in the streets here and they saw that. that just deepen their despair. we went into hiding. we knew we had to get out of the country and we would not succeed in stopping the massacre. the indonesian military killed more than 270 that day. we went to the bishop's house. he later won the nobel peace prize. and allen was covered in blood. he gave him a new shirt so we could clean him up. his head under his dark hair glistened like a bathing cap of blood but if we could get to the airport between -- before the new shirt was drenched with blood maybe we could get out on the only plane out. to fly out at east timor and get word to the outside world. we made it to the airport.

they close down the whole city. the jeeps and soldiers were combing through the streets. now we heard gunfire and we got to the airport. the military occupy the airport because it was a military occupy country. they were shouting security when they came. we didn't know if they decided not to kill us at the massacre site and now they wanted us out of there is a gap in communications but at some point they decided to let us get on that plane. allen had electrical charge is going his body from the beatings and had to walk very slowly. we walked onto the tarmac onto the plane and as the flight attendants closed the plane they handed me a silver bowl as we were flying out of timor with water and basic clean him up. we made it into west timor which is in the nation then into bali. allen allen reported in detail would have taken place and when we were in hiding we had 18

pictures of us because they confiscated a lot of our equipment. we knew they would deny what happened but they didn't have to explain what happened to us. i hid that film away and i had taken a towel and wrapped allen's bloody shirt under it around my skirt so at least we could show this as evidence. when we got to bali and allen made the call to the west and kept wiping the phone off because the blood from his head was drenching the phone. we then got onto a flight to guam and we went to guam memorial hospital where they sewed up his head. it was there at om memorial hospital emergency room that all the press from around the world called and and it became a switchboard for the press. "the new york times" and the "washington post" voice of america bbc. what happened? what happened? of course the indonesian military denied anything took

place. allen never stop telling the story even as they were sewing up his head. he had the phone glued to his ear. we were at a cnn outpost so we could develop the photographs. we came to the united united states and when we got to washington after allen was from elise from the hospital within hours they re-sewed up his head. we had a news conference with the national press club and describes the weapons that were used. a nationwide movement grew up around the united states and around the world calling for the u.s. to stop arming the indonesian regime. in 19998 years later the sub -- timorese got a chance to vote for their freedom. as the people went to the polls in timor the indonesian military burned east timor to the ground killing more than a thousand

more timorese in that voting process. the u.n. ran it for three years and on may 20, 2002 i tried to get into the referendum but the indonesian military caught me going through bali and jakarta. may 20, 2002 was a remark allen and i got into timor. about 100,000 timorese gathered in a sandy plain outside the capitol building. the u.n. secretary-general kofi annan gave a speech and a rebel leader of timor who had long been in prison at the indonesian military was the founding president of the country and he unfurled the flag of the democratic republic of east timor. there was a fireworks display and you could see the light

afflicted in the tear stained faces of the people of timor. they had resisted and they had one in unbelievably unacceptably high price but this nation of survivors had prevailed. it's a lesson to all of us 11 years after east timor was established as an independent nation. whether we are journalists or business people professors doctors students, whether we are librarians, whether we are employed or unemployed, we have a decision to make every hour of every day whether we want to represent the nation. >> host: good afternoon from washington. you are watching the tv on c-span2 and this is our in depth map program. one author and three hours of your phonecalls please facebook comments and e-mails. i guess this month is amy goodman cohost of democracy now!

ms. goodman's five nonfiction books begin from 2004 "the exception to the rulers" exposing politicians will profiteers and the media that love them. in 2006 she came out with static standing up to madness ordinary heroes in extraordinary times came out in 2000 a covert and with her brother david goodman. the sound barrier in 2009 and finally her most recent "the silenced majority" stories of uprisings occupations resistance and hope. he came out last year. if you'd like to participate in our conversation this afternoon 202's is the area code 585-3880 and for those of you in the east and central timezones by the 53881 and if you live in the mountain or pacific timezones you can also make comments on social media. you can go to our face with page facebook.com/booktv.

it's posted up there at the top of page and make him a good comment under this section the amy goodman section or send us an e-mail to booktv@c-span.org and finally you can send in the tweet as well at booktv is our twitter handle. amy goodman the most recent book the silenced majority where did the d come from? >> guest: i really do think that those who are concerned about war and people who are concerned about the growing inequality in this country, people who are concerned about climate change and the fate of the climate are not a fringe minority, not even a silent majority. the silenced majority, silence by the corporate media. >> host: do you consider yourself objective? >> guest: i consider myself fair and accurate and i think

that is the highest aspiration of journalist can have. >> host: how do you define democracy? and are we at democracy here in the state's? >> guest: i mean i think people have different definitions but it's about people in charge of their government. people participating in their government and i think that we have to strive for that every single day. democracy now! is a grassroots global news hour and they think providing a forum for people to have these discussions is the highest mission of the journalists to continually raise issues to hear them hashed out. there is not only to cite the the issue but there could be many sides of an issue many different perspectives and to try to bring those perspectives out. not just give voice to those in power. i think the media can be a great

equalizer just as the internet can be providing a forum no matter what strata of society you are and to be able to talk to each other. that is the role that journalism must play in ensuring a democratic society. >> host: one of the sections in your newest book "the silenced majority" you talk about trying to get into canada. >> guest: democracy now! every year we travel around the country and we broadcast from community media, public television, public radio stations all over the country and do fund-raisers for them because of the way public media has supported viewers and part of our mission is to shore up public media. you are describing a situation in 2009 where my colleague dennis moynihan and i who wrote with me waking the sound barrier

and "the silenced majority" were going from seattle speaking their. just two days ago we broadcast from the denver open media which is public access in denver where we broadcast every day and then we went to the studio. it was the first time the station had done the global broadcast. we would pull a satellite truck up and work with the people there students and volunteers. that is what we were doing in 2009. we broadcast from seattle and then it was thanksgiving time here. we figured that talks wouldn't be happening here so we talked to canada. we were invited by three community media outlet public radio and television in canada to give a talk at the vancouver public library. we broadcast across canada as well so we are crossing the border two colleagues and i and

we are about an hour from vancouver. they pulled us aside at customs. they said we want you to come into the facility. it was pouring rain and we were already late. this was not a good sign. we went into this big warehouse and they said ms. goodman can you come forward please? i said we really have to get through this talk. am i entitled to the phonecall? they said we want to know what you're talking about. what i'm talking about at the library? are you serious? it's a public talk. you can come. we want your notes now. i don't actually give speeches like that. i don't really have notes in that way. you are kind of in no-man's land on the border.

i knew i couldn't put up too much of a fight because we would miss the talk entirely. i said what i do is pretty much dashed the columns in the book in that book was breaking the sound barrier. bill moyer wrote about the importance of the media. they said give us the book. our car was filled with books so we got a copy of the book and i handed it to the order guard. he -- one of them started reading it and another one started writing in pencil everything i was saying and another was typing into the computer. tell us what you're going to stay. i said i thought i'd start with the last column. that's about the health care plight in the united states. she was dreaming your health care system and you didn't detain her. i'm talking about some of the virtues of your health care system. they didn't find this humorous.

this is about and maybe i could take the book because the title of the column the last column in the book and i thought well i would read it to them. i said health care reform needs an action hero. imagine the scene america 2009, 18,000 people at tiger one year. who is taking them out? to investigate president obama might be tempted to colin jack bauer the fictional rogue intelligence agent from the hit tv series 24 who invariably employs torture and a host of other illegal tactics to help the president fight terrorism. terrorism isn't the culprit here. its of adequate health care so maybe the president solution isn't jack bauer but rather the actor who plays him. the star of 24 is kiefer southerland whose family has a very deep connection to health care reform in canada. i said to the border agents tommy douglas is his

grandfather. tommy douglas the most famous canadian voted in 2004 is the greatest canadian. tommy douglas was the premiere in saskatchewan and as a kid he almost lost his leg. the talk are saved him and he felt public health care was critical. and so he fought for public health care just in saskatchewan. who took them on? remarkably enough the ama the american medical association. afraid the contagion would spread south. that is public national health care. they won in saskatchewan and it became so popular it's spread across canada and became canada's national health care system. this is what i'm telling the border guard and they are sitting here and saying yes in writing what i'm saying down. i said so, i talked about how

kiefer southerland had gone to alberta and talked about how you must privatize health care in canada. if he would speak to his audience in in the united states maybe we would get public health care passed in united states and they looked at me and they said would have to talking you talking about? i said well i was going to talk about the economy combat the terrible recession and depression we are suffering. i thought maybe this is what they're getting. i said i will does the discussing the wars in iraq and afghanistan. what else you talking about? that about does it. it's only about a one-hour talk. they said are you denying that you are going to be talking about the vancouver elections? are you denying that you are going to be talking about the olympics? anyone in knows me knows i don't feel that much with sports. the olympics? president up homages went to copenhagen to try to get the olympics in chicago. they said he didn't get them.

do you mean the real olympics? that made them think that i wasn't telling the truth because the vancouver olympics were coming up which i wasn't particularly aware of. are you denying that you are coming here to talk about this? i said until now i wasn't planning to talk about it. they pulled me aside in the room and took my picture and took my colleagues picture and stable documents into her passport. i was nowhere nowhere i needed a visa to come to your country. we have 40 hours to stay. that is as long as our trip is going to be to speak to the university of victoria and the library. thank goodness for canadians they had all gone out for a beer and the audience came back threefold larger because what it took them place. i gave my talk and asked why would people be so concerned and raced over the next night to speak at the university but coria. everyone is having tea before dinner at 6:00 and i sat down quietly in this room at the bed

and breakfast where the older folks were having their tea and turned on the news. the first story was about me getting detained and everyone looks over at me. oh now i'm just here to give a speech. it became very extreme because the second story was about how in the vancouver city council had voted to anyone who put up a sign against the olympics their house could be rated and athletes could not speak about the corporations that were sponsoring the olympics. the british columbia civil liberties association was involved. so there was a great outcry about this and it got a lot of attention. in canada that they would detain an american journalist. we did come back to new york and the next show we did was about the vancouver olympics but let it never be said that the state determines what it is democracy now! broadcast but on that day it certainly provided fodder for

the show. >> host: two more questions amy goodman. how many speeches to give your? >> guest: many. we did with the silenced majority about 100 city tour sometimes three and a day as we are traveling. we would do a show in the morning and go to the universities. we had public offense and mainly they were fund-raisers for community organizations around the country. >> host: most of your books are dedicated or in memory of your parents. who were and are they? >> guest: my wonderful parents george and dorrie goodman. my dad died about 12 years ago. he was sufficient -- physician and ophthalmologist where we grew up in bayshore new york and long island and he was just committed to our community being a better place. i don't know if they even talked about people being activists.

my mother was deeply committed to peace. she was a social worker. she taught women's history and literature in local community colleges. and i mean the example of my mother who died a few years ago a truly wonderful woman, such a role model for us all as my father was. she taught women's literature and history at a local community college continuing ed for truck drivers and cops and whoever they would get. a couple of credits and meant a higher salary so they said okay we will take women's literature and it will be easy. she is teaching them about virginia woolf and tony morrison and the great writers and soon they would bring their wives. this was the time of women's liberation. this is what you are talking about the men would say?

at the end the classrooms would be packed with those enrolled in their families. then she went into social work. my dad was a physician for social responsibility. he has a very famous face in the local long island railroad stations because they made this poster. they made this poster of a doctor in a white jacket with a stethoscope with a nuclear mushroom in a stethoscope and it says you're doctor is worried. my dad also led task force in our community in bayshore when i was in elementary school. he was chosen to lead a task force in to integrate the schools of our community. we had a diverse community in bayshore but it was pretty much de facto segregation where people lived. the schools would be the great equalizer. i would go with him two cafeterias. there would be 1000 screaming parents and i watched.

death threats against this task force that was going to decide what to do. ultimatelultimatel y how he just so judiciously made his way to a more just solution that is my parents. i lost my parents but their legacy lives on in me and my brothers and all the community. they have been such an inspiration to us. >> host: amy goodman is our guest author and host of democracy now!. now it's your turn. we will begin with john and santa barbara california. hi john. >> caller: hi. as i was waiting i was trying to think what show have i watched longer than democracy now! i did c-span that i have watched longer. but anyways there is a solution to all these problems and it's in the constitution the article v convention. congress put out a paper last year about the article v convention and all we need is

people like amy goodman and peter slen and c-span in brian lamb to say hey guys is time for us to dust off the constitution hold a convention. people fear a convention thinking it's going to be controlled but it's just open discussion so there is nothing to control and this would allow for this discussion that we were talking about earlier. people can actually come together and build consensus. my question is at any point will c-span and democracy now! start talking about the need for an article v convention? >> host: amy goodman? >> guest: explain a little more what it's about. >> host: he is gone. i apologize. i moved onto another caller but he's talking about a potential constitutional convention. the. >> guest: i would have to learn more about it. i don't want to be one of those pundits who comments on something that i don't know about. >> host: john in fairfax

virginia. hi john. >> caller: hi peter and amy. you brought tears to my eyes for the first time watching c-span making your remarkable witness to history for us all. i am torn in the mornings whether i should watch democracy now! and c-span but luckily i can now listen to it on wptw so i appreciate the ability to catch c-span and you too on the same day. i would like to recommend that you have more authors and book reports but also have a true story to tell particularly about 9/11 in the war on drugs. thank you so much. >> guest: thank you. you talk about book authors and i was just in denver for a

conference. remarkably i met a woman who you will soon hear her story. her name is carlotta linear and for folks who live in little rock arkansas you know the story but it's also a story that made history in this country. she wrote a book and i talked to her yesterday and we will soon be broadcasting this interview. i was so moved by her story. carlotta walz was the youngest member of the little rock nine. she was 14 years old in 1957 when she signed a petition that went around would anyone like to go to central high? she went to the african-american school but she knew the resources were at central high so she signed up. she didn't even tell her parents. then the fall came around and nine of these young people -- i mean she was 14 years old.

they attempted to go to the high school. they attempt once. it's right after little rock explodes. literally the courthouse is blown up in the fire chief's car they put a bomb under it. but still the kids went. they tried once but a wild mob prevented them. then september 23 they tried again to integrate the school. she is 14 years old. they were turned back but on that day she described how a group of african-american reporters from around the country the "chicago defender" and chicago to pittsburgh courier and the afro-american and the amsterdam news from new york were covering the civil rights movement and how they were set upon. so often it was those with cameras and pens and pencils documenting that first attack.

they were beaten and they were chased and then the kids went back for a third time. it's hard to think about the arkansas little rock nine children and how brave they were. september 25, the by then after what happened to the black reporters president eisenhower called out the national national guard. he they protected them. they went into the school and carlotta walz was the only female member of the little rock nine who graduated two years later. she left the next morning. she left the city of so much pain yet of so much achievement. its voices like those that we need to hear all over this country. she was at the national conference of media reform and talked about the importance of having a media that tells the stories of people at the grassroots who are engaging in these kinds of acts of courage even now even more than 50 years

later. >> host: our production team tells us that article v going back to our first caller john in santa barbara, convention to propose amendments into the u.s. constitution. have you thought about amendments to the u.s. constitution at this point? >> guest: we are covering them. as we travel the country we see these movements building. there's particularly the move to amend and that is the constitutional amendment that would say that corporations are not people which is a big movement in this country. the way corporations are treated especially when it comes to pouring money into politics as individuals. if you buy the ability to give money you are violating a person's freedom of speech. many people consider that one of the gravest problems that we have two face in this country today the issue of money and politics. who gets to say?

who determines who the leaders of this country are? who are the elected officials and then once they are elected what they vote for. >> host: amy green spelled her e-mails and i think amy goodman could have one of the best news programs on the air. to do so she would need to include multiple points of view. her programs usually have a counter mainstream slant which i like because i get plenty of main street with "the new york times" "the wall street journal" and "the new yorker" and the republic. if she included a mainstream guests along with a counter voice we could think through the whole subject and i think she would have a fabulous program. >> guest: that's an interesting point. i am right here going to democracy now! looking at her broadcast for just this past week. we had a really interesting debate. we have many many debates on democracy now!. two men from nelson georgia, and

nelson is the second city in georgia to pass a resolution or pass a law. the city council passed it unanimously that every head of household must have a gun. so we had to the members of nelson. one is the city councilmember. he said that way people on the highway would pass by if they want to commit a crime because they would know everyone has it done. we also had -- you said to us are you going to have me arrested? you don't have to hear a conscientious objector. he said i'm not. i don't want again. we had a debate about this and what does this mean? we have many debates on democracy now!. >> host: cathleenia coventry connecticut thanks for holding. you are on with sub four. this is booktv on c-span2.

>> caller: hello. the first thing i want to do is say thank you. i love democracy now! and i think it's a very important program. i have two quick questions for you. there was something in the title of your last book about hope and i was wondering where you look and see signs of hope and you mentioned earlier that you don't think the of voting in this country -- [inaudible] >> guest: you know, first of all thank you for your call and thank you for tuning in to democracy now!. people could check it out at democracy now!.org. i had any adjusting experience on election day in 2000. we were than a radio show and not yet a tv show. we got an interesting call that morning. we were about to go on the air and we got a call from -- they

got on the phone and they said this is the white house. i thought they said -- they said this is white house communications and we were just about to go on the air and the producers were already in her studio. i was running and as usual but we got this call. who would be calling right before the show unless it's an emergency? the music is already swelling for the beginning of democracy now!. i pick it up and i say hello and is white house communications. whitehorse? whitehorse is this famous tavern in new york where it dylan thomas drank himself to death. it's in the village. why would a barbie calling us at 9:00 in the morning? so i said what do you want? they said the president was to come on. i said the president of why? a president of the tavern? the president of the united states. this is white house communications. he wanted to come on the show. i said the president?

bill clinton wants to come on democracy now!? yes, today. he will call you in a few minutes. he is calling radio stations to get out the vote. it was when hillary clinton was running for senate and al gore was running for president. i didn't know if this was a crank call or whatever and i said whatever. we went on the air and i said to the producers the president might be calling still pick up the phone if he does. we went on with our show. he did not call and so who knew what it was. we were going out to coffee because we know would be a long day. who knew that long day would stretch into five weeks but we would get coffee and start the election day coverage. we would hear a yelp coming from the control room. the next show is on and it's a latino music show. they said get they said getting hit up residence on the phone. as i run and all of the music stages are up in the microphones are down.

you hear president clinton say hello, hello, is anyone there above this also. i throw myself over the board and brought down the music and i said ring up his microphone. yes mr. president, i understand he wants to talk about getting out the fod and i asked them at the beginning about that. i said many people don't vote because they feel that both parties are captured by the corporations. what do you have to say about that? and he responded and then he was still on so i asked him, he was considering clemency for leonard peltier the famous native american activist who was convicted of killing two fbi agents on the pine newbridge reservation in 1975 a crime he continues to this day to maintain he did not commit. and president clinton had never spoken publicly about it so he addressed it.

i was there with the latino music programmer and we went back and forth asking the president questions. asking about the napalming of the puerto rican island. the u.s. navy was doing at the time. i asked him about racial profiling. this was a time when ralph nader was running and they saw ralph nader is a threat. i asked him might he not president clinton be responsible for ralph nader success because he had brought the democratic party to the right? i think it was at that point that president clinton said -- i just have a few more questions. i asked him about racial profiling because al gore had said if he became president he would be the first executive order to do away with racial profiling. so i said if that is his intention you both have been in power for eight years. why haven't you done it until

now? anyway after half an hour he got off the phone. it got a lot of attention this conversation with a president. the next day i get a call from newsday the local newspaper in new york. i'm talking to the reporter and i get another call from the white house. so i just put the phonecall with a reporter down. at the time we use tape recorders but just as a physical place to put the phone down and i was not recording anything. i said just one minute please the white house is on the phone. he happened to hear my into the conversation because i just put that phone down. this was a time when we were using phones and not cell phones as much. i said hello. i said what he talking is talking about? they said i wrote all the base -- broke all the basic rules of the agreement we had. i said i had no agreement with you. he said the president might call and that was the extent of our conversation. they said we said he wanted to talk about getting out the vote.

questions one, four and seven related to that but not the other ones. i didn't agree that those are the only questions i would ask. i understood that was what he wanted to talk about but we are independent. where journalists. how many other radio stations to the call of? he spoke to 40 journalists. they said all of them just agree to ask the questions that you wanted asked? they said that's right. i said that's a very sad state a comment on the sad state of journalism today. we said he had a few minutes and you kept him on the phone for 30 minutes. he is the leader of the free world. he can hang up if he wants to. i asked as many questions as i could until he decided to get off the phone. anyway it was a very interesting conversation that we had and it got a lot of attention with

headlines that said we went back and forth. but that issue of an agreement that you have that journalists have with politicians, you know i had covered the white house and had been covering the press corps covering the president and i'm afraid that all too often journalists engage in well the access of people. that is trading truth for access. he asked a softball question so you will get another chance to ask the president a question are the vice president and you can come back to your newspaper or your web site or whatever news organization you have. you are the one to ask the question. politicians need journalists more than journalistic

politicians and we should not be making those deals. i'm trying to remember why i told you that story but you asked the question about the listener who just called and asked a question about. >> host: of voting and hope. >> guest: what gives us hope and of voting. .. >> host: as a transcript here. this is the first answer and the first question. mr. president, are you there?

i am. can you hear me? yes, we can. you are calling radio stations to tell people to get out and vote. what do you say to people who feel the two parties are bulked by corporations and at this point feel that their vote doesn't make a difference? my guess is that is the last time you talked to president clinton? >> guest: i have -- let me see was that the last time? when we, interestingly enough, when he became an independ nation, he was there and they were establishing the u.s. embassy in east -- we a chance to actually challenge him about u.s. policy. people should go to democracy.org and see the interaction. no, i have never personally interviewed him after that. >> host: where did you have the presence of mind to jump to a conversation and with the president of the united? >> guest: people prepare their whole lives for an interview with the president of the united states.

we didn't have that opportunity. he called in and it's a huge responsibility whether talking to a president or anyone else, you know, you are there, and not a lot of people goat ask the questions, and so, you know, i see when i hold out the microphone there are so many people behind us who would have questions if they didn't have to be at work or if they could only gate job, and i take that extremely seriously. as i think many journalists do. what are the questions that make a difference for the most people in the country? >> host: clinton, now wait a minute. you started this and every question you asked have been hostile and combative. you answer to my answer. will you do that? goodman, they have been critical questions? >> guest: yes. that's it. he seemed very surprised by a journalist asking critical questions when he had the intongs get out to vote.

>> host: earnest e-mails in does democracy now have credential to attend and ask question of the jay carr why doesn't democracy now get a change to interview the president or governmental official. >> we interview major government officials. we are not at the white house right now, but i do believe we -- if we want to be in the white house press corp. could be. >> host: why adopt -- continue you? >> guest: we don't have the resources to dedicate a reporter there now. we do a daily global "newshour." we are based in new york city. >> host: are you still based at the fire station? >> guest: no. we built our own studio. it's the greenest internet tv studio in the country for architect out there. we have platinum certify indication for new counter top and the green room and crushed

recycled bottles cemented together. we -- in, you know, data centers and our machine room that old tv stations radio stations have to deal with. and lots of places deal with data centers. we really pioneered a way to -- because all the electronics give off so much heat to work out a way to try to use less energy and dealing with this. was -- because we believe the media has to be the message. what is interesting about the democracy now broadcast every morning at 8:00 live and stations can run it all day. they can go our website online and watch it. we put out transcript every day of every show is that students come and watch the broadcast whether graduate students or fourth graders, kids in high school and college. it's a tremendous opportunity and, you know, really in a civic

education after the show when the guests come out of the broadcast, they get to ask them questions. we talk about what journalism is today in a democratic society. so it is a wonderful educational forum. we also have lot of volunteers and interns and fellows that these classes that come -- they come from around the world and around new york city. it's, a remarkable experience to be able to hold the forum every day. >> host: the next call for amy goodman lee in rockville, maryland. >> caller: good morning, amy. thank you for coming. >> guest: it's great to be here. >> caller: i'm a long time listener. i listen to you every morning when i drive to work, democracy now. >> caller: where do you live, by the way? >> caller: washington. >> guest: wpfw. >> guest: right. i'm a contributor to wfpw and have been a contributor many years. i really take issue with your

reporting on israel. you vilify israel and vilify israel. i'm glad you pointed out this morning -- this afternoon earlier how objective you are. when prime minister netanyahu spoke to the joint session of the congress a year and a half ago, he got twenty or thirty standing ovations. twenty or thirty standing ovations by the members of congress. when democracy now reported on it, it was not objective, amy. what you said was something to the effect of prime minister netanyahu shouted down palestinian demonstrators. one -- one woman got up and started yelling free palestinian, and she was, you know, not in the arab country. she would have been carted off and thrown in jail and beaten and raped. but in the united states and

israel they don't do that. they just took her and off, you know, and read her right and let her go. you reported -- your reporting was that she was -- netanyahu was shotted down bay palestinian demonstrators. not that he -- that twenty or thirty standing ovation. it do you remember that? >> host: let's gate response. >> guest: i want to address a larger issue you raise which is a serious one. it's covering the israel-palestinian conflict. how important it is to bring out the voices across the political spectrum. i fear that the media and the united states -- it is changing, but as with reporting on power in the united states often acting as stenographer to power, we see that with israel as well. journalists presenting the israeli government side. we very much bring out different

perspectives. now, i mean, we interview, for example, the enemy who is the former israeli foreign minister. you said it was the most extensive discussion he had had in the united states about israel. you know, we don't just do sound bytes television and radio. we get the whole meal. we'll have extended debates and discussions about these critical issues, and, you know, we interview palestinian journalists, academics, people on the ground in gay disa and -- gaza and we interview israelis. and i think one area overlooked in the united is the real peace movement. i think public opinion in the united states is shifting dramatically. student on college campuses, jewish and non-jew wish hav a

difer israel doing in the occupy territory today. whether it comes to the number of palestinian prisoners they are holding, the palestinian prisoners who guyed in custody. it the protests -- those in west bank and gaza. we had a reporter on what has been called the freedom to document these attempts to break the israeli embargo of gaza, and what does it mean to be on the ship as with other journalists organizations? sadly when the military brought the ship ashore, they took all of the reporters' equipment, computer, camera, this was a more than a year ago. they had written and said they're not going returning it . it's important we reflect what is happening on the ground. these are difficult truths, but the situation in israel-palestinian must be

resolved. it's not good for palestinians, it is not good for israelis, it is a conflict that must be resolved. >> host: if you can't get through on the phone line you can go to facebook.com/booktv. you can send us a tweet @booktv. this is from our facebook page. acongressman -- amanda sent several tweet and facebook comments. i wanted to address a couple. is there one thrais -- place on earth you haven't traveled you would like to? >> guest: there are in places i haven't traveled. what we do at democracy now is we speak with people all over the world. there is a new film can i recommend to thearch is coming out in april as well as a book by my colleague. jeremy started working at democracy now in the late '90s. we went nigeria together and

covered the delta, particularly looking at chevron. a few years before, when i was doing the local morning shows -- maybe i should quickly say what the pacific stations are. i started at wbai in new york. 65 years ago in berkeley, california, it was a sister who came out of the detention camp out of the -- said there has to be a media outlet not run by corporations that are profit then kpfk in los angeles, 1959, wbai in new york 1960. the station here in washington is wfpw and kpft in houston,

texas. it's interesting. it's the only radio station in the country whose transmitter who was blown up for the ku klux klan. they strapped dynamite to it and blew it to smith reins. the silver line it's not as if they had a money to advertise the new stationing and blew it to the consciousness of the potential listening audience and the people of houston when they got back on the feet and rebuilt the transmitter. the clan blew it up again. i don't remember was it grand dragon, i often confuse their titles, but he said it was proudest fact. i think that's because he understood how dangerous independent media is. dangerous because it allows people to speak for themselves. and when you hear a palestinian child or an israeli grandmother, an aunt from iraq or uncle from

afghanistan telling their story, it makes it much more difficult to caricature on stereo type. it begins the process of understanding of finding common ground. you don't have to agree with them. how often do we agree with our family members? you start to understand where they're coming from. i believe the media can be the greatest for peace on earth. instead it's too often as an weapon of war. i think it has to be challenged. >> host: one more question from amanda. , -- >> guest: we went to nigeria. so jeremy was a producer with democracy now, and then he wrote the book black water" a remarkable book everyone should read. the latest book is coming out in the next few weeks. actually next week.

it's called "dirty war ." and his film by the same title is coming out. it won a major -- it's opening in theaters across the country. very important film about hoover wars wage bid the united states, and about jay sox. the joint special operation command. what is happening especially around the issue of drone attacks from yemen to somalia to pakistan. it's interesting we know what is done. jeremy and i went to nigeria at the end of the '90s and we went to the delta to investigate i met a man a few years ago doing a show called wake-up call. he was brought any by an activist. i said maybe you can come back another day. he needs to go on.

i said, well, dwron two minutes. he introduced himself. his name was ken. one of the most famous nigeria who was a writer from a famous soap opera threw in his love with the people. he was taking on shell corporation, which chris crossed the land with these pipes. unlike the united states where this is illegal, they would flair off the gas in their community. these kids never knew a dark knight because they lived in the shadow of the flame he came to the united states 0 to speak about the nexus of corporate and military and government power. he was living under the "the dictatorship." he said when i go home, i'm a marked has man. i will be arrested. we guest after guest that morning it was remarkable the

story he was telling. and i resolved then i would try to go nigeria. he did cohome. and he was jailed with eight other minority rights activists. within a year it was november 10, 1995, after a trial he was executed. we went back to nigeria, we visited his family one of the men in his community came forward after they sang us a song and met his parents who since died. he recounted for us the last speech of ken in court. then we discovered the other story of villagers who had got ton speak with chevron executives on a barge because there was an oil spill. they wanted the forest cleaned up and they wanted jobs, and

ultimately the chevron flew in the nigeria military on the barring and opened fire and killed two and critically rounded a third and others who rounded up in a prison. we did a story "drilling and kilt -- killing." it's those kinds of stories we feel are critical to shed a spotlight on places that americans night not know about, and, you know, you can't -- so why is that this could happen in nigeria? it's our job as journalists to go where the silence is and bring back the stories. expwhrois mitch facebook comment. amy is capitalism is the best system for black america? >> guest: i think the coalition of capitalism today is one that must be debated and discussed. what is the best system in it

country right now? democracy now has long covered grassroots movements, and i think people across the political spectrum are deeply concerned about that sucking sound from the bottom to the top right now. we are seeing the largest gap in inequality. we have to really evaluate this system. we need e lengted leader -- elected leaders who are not morally beholden to corporations and wall street than to the people who elected them. >> host: this is an e-mail from richard. what happened to the occupy wall street movement of a year ago? did it fail to achieve the objectives? is such an endeavor hopeless because the general public is app -- >> guest: i don't think we have seen the end of it. ting takes different forms.

what happened in the last two years around the world was truly remarkable. first you had the tunisia revolution at end of december 2010 which sparked the egyptian uprising and the egyptian uprising. we broadcast the egyptian uprising through our reporter on the ground. who did remarkable reporting. he was our senior producer for eight years in new york when the egyptian uprising happened. he flew home in to tahrir and certainly didn't leave for 18 days. he became one of the top tweeters in the world. mubarak brought down the help with the u.s. corporation. even when the internet was brought down, he was tweeting out to the world what was happening. he was being cited on the networking and being interviewed on the networking. and, you know, the thug that brought down the satellite and

the democracy now bring out the remarkable 20 minute video report of him and our videographer would travel to tahrir interviewing people what really -- the reporting was remarkable. you met, for example, the great egyptian writer. he met the 79-year-old that the thyme -- former president presidential candidates she was exiled under mubarak. she was saying we will win. you will meet the young high school student putting out voices of they rear that was bringing out the voice of people in this uprising, and she would put them out this out the group of young people high school student in the shadow of the state media wilding that spewed

lies for so long. you read all of them. the people creating the upridessing through the remarkable reports of her and interviewed and msnbc and northbound n and -- we call it trickle. -up journalism. the egyptian revolution to what happened in wisconsin, remarkable uprising there. what we saw there hasn't been seen in wisconsin in the entire history. then that sparked, i think, in the united states what happened in september of 2011. and that was september 17th when people marched on the park. i think we the first broadcast to the local tv radio broadcast

to talk about 17th before september 17th. the next many based in new york only touched it for the first week. nay would hardly touch the grassroots uprising. if you cover grassroots movement you saw what was about to happen. they were inspired by a few weeks before you 1200 people arrested at the white house. protesting the case in the decision now president obama about to make whether the keystone x l will be allowed. the pipeline that will take the tar sands to the gulf of mexico. there are massive protests around. the people who got arrested there. some of them moved up to new york and joining many others in new york and others who had come to new york to really change the paradigm in who benefits and who

doesn't. that was the occupy movement. september 17th changed so much in this country. as to what happens now police went after all over the country knocking out the actual physical encampment. i think it's percolating in different ways. there's a different coachness in country that uniting people across political spectrum deep i are concerned about who has power in this country. he tweets in do you think president obama has been a positive oring negative force against the military industrial complex? >> guest: it's very important as journalists we evaluate president bush's records as we evaluated president obama's records as we evaluated president bush's records. people are deeply concerned

about what is happening today in this cub. whether we're talking about the keystone x l pipeline and climate change or talking about the crack dob we are seeing in this country on whistle blowers. and extends from one of the government's top secret agency, the nsa, the national security agency which is a number of times larger than the cia, whistle blowers like william and others who joined the nsa. the national security agency they were deeply concerned about national security and wanted to serve their country and started to speak out about what was doing after they tried the channel within the agency. deeply cell phoned about -- concerned about, for example, surveillance of american. they were finding programs were developed to not improve national security but data mine americans. as they spoke out, one by one

the prosecution or persecution in the case of william. authorities raided his house, had him at gunpoint. he was a diabetic am pee too. they were charged. under the obama administration, there have been more whistle blowers charged than in all past presidential administrations combined. it's a very serious issue. which brings us to the case of bradley manning. the young soldier who went to iraq and now plead guilty to having released hundreds of thousand of not millions of pages of documents to wicky leeks. documents that documented what

was happening in iraq, afghanistan, and in the state department cable the largest trove of state department cables ever released. he has been in jail now for almost three years. he has not yet been tried. he recently plead guilty to some of the charges. what message does it send to especially young soldiers who are concerned about what happened in the direction our country is taken? you cannot hear his voice. on democracy now we recently broadcast bradley manning's voice. someone secretly reported his testimony at fort meade where he's being tried. why is it dangerous to even hear his voice? what message is being sent to

people? i think it's way beyond bradley manning. it's about what it means to be a whistle-blower and the message being sent is we will crush you. we will destroy you. what are some of those documents videos released? when, you know, newspapers all over the world worked with wicky leeks they were so important. they have been so significant on the crackdown of information. i want to tell the story of one video that was released that we broadcast on democracy now. the collateral murder video. it was a video -- i'll start with one of the documents that came out of the wick key leeks about an incident in february of 2007 where apache

helicopter unit in an area of baghdad was hoovering and they saw two iraqi putting their hands up in an surrender sign. they didn't know what to do. the documents are written by low-level soldier. they are aren't peace activists. they are the law of daily activity and war. they describe how these two iraqis put their hands up. they didn't know what to do. they were in a helicopter. they called back to base and said you can't surrounder to a helicopter. people knew at the time when what had taken place there would have been an outcry and investigation. it might have prevented what happened six months later july 12, 2007 in an area of bag bsh baghdad called new baghdad. two employees, an up-and-coming videographer and his driver who

was 40 and four children's. drivers in wartime are more than drivers. they are so important because international -- in to place like iraq or afghanistan. they need a lay of the land quickly. those that drive around and take them are indig use to the area. they are telling them about what happening. they are introducing to people. ..

they get that permission and they blow these men away. you see the people on the grounds are being away. he is not killed outright. he is dragging himself away and then a man pulls up to help the wounded here they are children in the band. it's from the neighborhood and the father is driving the van and they explode and they killed him as well. there are 12 people altogether. reuters asked the military for this video for years. it was only when it was released by wikileaks that reuters saw the moments of their employees lives. and we see what took place there. bradley manning talked about this in the courtroom when he

had his chance to address the court. you could disagree and you could say absolutely had no authority to do this. that is fine. we have to make decisions based on facts than hearing people making their own cases. this is a critical document of war and that happened to have happened before the obama administration and of course president obama became president in 2009 but it's the crack down that has happened since that has people so deeply concerned whether we are talking about information about war or talking about the men who are languishing in guantánamo 166 of them, most of them cleared for release, a number of them held for more than 10 years and yet they remain there. now we hear and have been doing a number of pieces on this at democracy now!. it may well be the majority of of them are on a hunger strike.

the obama administration slowly is admitting this day by day increasing the numbers of those admitting that they are on a hunger strike. but what message are we sending to the world when we hold people without charge for more than 10 years and say they can be held indefinitely? i think that's frightening and it's dangerous. u.s. officials oversees endangered u.s. soldiers oversees and is something we --. >> host: page 218 of amy goodman's most recent book "the silenced majority" president obama spoke at the opening of the mlk memorial here in washington d.c.. amy goodman writes what obama left unsaid is that came were he alive would most likely be protesting obama administration policies. we have an hour and a half left with their test this month on "in depth." our producer tommy davis often

sends the authors we have on the program a series of questions and she sends a series of questions as well. amy goodman provided answers and we want to show those to you right now. ♪ ♪ ♪

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♪ >> host: amy goodman one and a half hours left in our program today and this is an e-mail from robert homan indian pueblo colorado. given the words spoken by president obama during the 2008 and 2012 campaigns are you disappointed by his actions and will the u.s. ever adopt a single page payer health care system? >> guest: at very important question and i would like to also go back to the issue you raised before the break. that is president obama speaking at the dedication of the mlk memorial.

here we are on sunday. it's 45 years ago. it's 45 years ago on april 41968 the doctor king was gunned down at the lorraine motel on the balcony. he went down to memphis that week to stand with sanitation workers who were simply trying to organize a local union 1707 the american federation of county and municipal employees. when we were covering it, there were protests. for young people who are thinking now the issues were very great. it was much more clear black and white back then and i think people should think again. afscme was founded in 1932 in wisconsin and what were people protesting blacks the right to organize. dr. king died for that right.

most people in this country don't realize is "i have a dream" speech. >> i've may not make the mountaintop address. he was there to stand with sanitation workers simply organizing. a year to the day before he died in april 4, 1967 at riverside church dr. king gave another address that didn't get as much attention after he died. it was hard fought for by people all over the country and state by side. on april 41967 dr. king addressed riverside church. thousands gathered there and he said sadly his country the

united states is the greatest purveyor of violence today. he was speaking out against the war in vietnam. there were many even in his inner circle who said don't do it martin. don't speak out. you have achieved the support of the most powerful person on earth the present of the united states. it was lyndon johnson at the time. you have to sign the voting act and you have to sign the civil rights act. do not alienate him now but dr. king saw this as his duty as a seamless way as he was concerned about injustice as at home he was concerned about it abroad. i just came from the national conference of media reform where it is pointed out in one of the magazines the most effective dr. king and seeing what was happening on the ground in vietnam was the independent foundation talks. dr. king gave that address. dr. king who was hailed today all over the country, all over

the world. "time" magazine called his speech and talked about it as demagogic saying it's like a script from radio hanoi. the "washington post" right here in washington said with that speech he did a disservice to his cause, his country and his people. dr. king wouldn't stop. he continued to speak out against war and i think that is very relevant today and why they did that column on what dr. king with the saying today. would he be invited to his celebrations of his life today? as president obama presided over the honoring of dr. king with a memorial what would dr. king have to say about president obama's policies around what's

happening for example now in afghanistan and expanded covert wars in the form of drone attacks in pakistan and beyond? >> host: in a recent column amy goodman you praised senator rand paul. maybe praised is the wrong word. >> guest: well i talked about what he did. rand paul engaged in a filibuster for a day and it was quite remarkable. protesting drone attacks, protesting and it was not only rand paul but a number of his colleagues on the republican side of the aisle. now democratic senator ron wyden also spoke along with senator udall and also deeply concerned about these issues from drone attacks. with senator paul was raising on that day and we will see if he raises it again is could the

u.s. citizen be killed on u.s. soil even in a café be killed in a drone attack? he detailed what happened in yemen with the killing of anwar al-awlaki. this is a story that jeremy scale wind to investigate former democracy now! investigator. he went and met with the awlaki family but not only did president obama has awlaki killed and without trial without charge a drone attack in yemen, kills not only anwar al-awlaki whether you think what he is saying is right or you think it's absolutely reprehensible, he was an american citizen and you have to ask this question should he be doing it to anyone? killing this american citizen and two weeks later dropping another missile bomb a drone

strike on his son who was born in denver. 60 years old. what did his son do and senator paul raised the question what was his crime? >> was the son of his father? >> they're very serious questions. i would expand rand paul's questions to not only u.s. citizens but anyone. it was very significant what he did on that day. plesco bill in washington d.c. thanks for holding. you are on the air on booktv with amy goodman. >> caller: how are you doing? >> guest: good. >> caller: i wanted to give a shout-out to ron pinchbeck. have you seen him lately? >> guest: i haven't. i just flew into washington on the red eye this morning. >> host: who is ron pinchbeck? >> caller: he is the person who was responsible for bringing amy goodman on the air but

that's not really what i wanted to talk about harriet ms. goodman i have tried the pacifica foundation and c-span for that matter. and of course the major media. have you ever heard of a project by the pentagon called the harp project? >> guest: i have. >> caller: okay. let me just quickly say this to the listeners who may not have heard of it. it's haarp which stands for harmonic atmospheric research product -- project. if you go to google and you type in harp weaponry you get

1.5 million entries. >> host: so billiar point with this, asking about this? >> caller: this system is something that can cause earthquakes. it can do whether modifications and steer storms. >> host: what is your view about at? >> caller: it's the qualities of mind control -- the arab spring. andrea mitchell was recording a little piece on this showing that prior to the surge or about the time of the surge in iraq that they may have used this system which is based in alaska to quiet down the population. >> host: do you know what bill let's hear from amy goodman? >> guest: i don't know enough about the harp project.

this is something i will look into. >> host: but ron pinchbeck? >> guest: he was a former general manager of wpfw. democracy now! was on the station before ron was general manager but i haven't spoken to him recently but if he is watching hi run. >> host: jeff is in long beach california. please go ahead. >> caller: hi amy. i'm listening to democracy now! for several years and i'm a big admirer of your work. i have three questions for you. i often tell my friends and co-workers about democracy now! and have heard the same thing from people who consider to be progressive. [inaudible] second i am wondering why you haven't interviewed of -- on your program before --.

>> host: what was the last named? of the ahead of the revolutionary communist party. lastly i'm interested in your perspective on the issue of living a balanced life. there are so many issues and injustices going on in the world and i wonder how you balance being a journalist and activist? >> host: let's hear the answer. >> guest: thank you, jeff. living a balanced life is very important for everyone. we should know what is in the food we eat and we should be very careful about exercise that is very important. we all strive for that and there's a lot we have to do in the world. whatever job we have, whatever we do i think it should involve

in some ways striving for peace and bettering our communities. the other questions were --. >> host: the revolutionary communist party. >> guest: we have interviewed him. there were many people we have been interviewed but he is someone who would be interesting to talk to. >> host: do you consider yourself a leftist? >> guest: i don't think labels are productive or instruct this. what i say to people is watch and listen to the show. it is amazing who watches and of course we don't know most of the people who do because we are talking about alien aliens of people in this country and around the world. i think labels break down in this country. whether you are talking about progressive or conservative, liberal or democrat or even republican. i think that people are rethinking the way we live and

you can never assume what people's views are on any issue. as a journalist i been it is our job to go outside what is considered the status quo especially in the mainstream media because don't really think it's mainstream anymore. we just passed the tenth anniversary of the invasion of iraq. that week of programming we did in the past week i didn't think it was particularly radical to bring iraqis to talk about what happened to their country by the one their country but when i watch the media there were few iraqis interviewed. we also looked back 10 years ago and this was very important work. when we look at iran and we look at north korea and we see the push really in a direction of war at burnley are inadvertently in north korea for example,

where is the issue, so where's the evidence? we have to start there. we have to go back 10 years ago in iraq. there's an interesting study of the two weeks around colin powell at the u.n.. i write about this and i was just giving a speech to the u.n.. the fact that so many news organizations in the time when half the population was opposed to war before major nightly newscasts nbc, abc, cbs and the news hour. he was secretary of state at the time. it was a stain on his career what he did there and the final nail in the coffin. he was so -- dragging his feet but on that day six weeks before

the invasion he said the evidence is in. the population was divided. these four major nightly newscasts were so important at this time. they set the agenda. 393 interviews done in that four-week. period on the newscasts. we would expect 150 would be you with people for the war but there were three antiwar leaders of almost 400 interviews. the first book that my brother david goodman and i wrote we call it that because that is their job in the media to be the exception to the rulers. it shouldn't just be the motto of democracy now!. the second book rewrote static, government lawyers cheerleaders and the people that fight back we call the static because in this high-tech digital age with

high-tech television and radio still all we ever get is static. that veil of distortion and lies and misrepresentations and half-truths. what we need the media to give us is the dictionary definition of static. criticism opposition unwanted in her parents. we wanted media that covers power not covers for power. we need a media that is for the state, no for the state and we need a media that covers the movements that create static and makes history. >> host: the third vote euro together standing up to the madness ordinary heroes in extraordinary times in 2008. how to stand up to the madness and the rules of the road, challenge the corporate media. number two don't follow the leaders. number three question authority. member for, speak up. number five say no. number six, stand together and number seven, take the show on

the road. what is the that number seven about? >> guest: that's about the voices of people you wouldn't normally hear. we take the show on the road and we go into communities and bring out the voices of people who are so rarely interviewed. so often you have these media appointed leaders and communities when they are not the leaders that people in their own communities want and to bring out these stories whether we are talking about cocoa some like it hot the whole issue of climate change, we were looking at the climate change scientists. one of the people he profiled was james hansen and he has just announced he is retiring as the head of the goddard space institute with nasa. he was one of the early people to testify before congress. he is deeply concerned particularly in the bush administration that government was vacuuming the words global warming both of government web

sites. whether we call it global warming or climate change or climate disruption. some people pooh-pooh it and they say you call this global warming? why is it so cold? the earth is heating up that it's about extreme weather. i have a message to whether people on all the channels. a lot of people tune in to the weather. you have to figure out what to wear. but you know how the lower third on the bottom of the screen that tells you that the person is you are speaking with, it will flash extreme weather or severe weather. it should flash another two words, climate change, global warming. people shouldn't just be tuning in to see what to wear that day but what should we do about this? this is not inevitable. we have covered the climate change conferences. democracy now! headed to copenhagen to cover the climate change summit there and we

headed to cancun mexico south africa doha we just came from and cutter. why does anything get accomplish there? the actual damage -- diplomatic or very bureaucratic and not a lot gets done. but the thousands of people who come from all over the world with an emphasis on bringing out the voices of people at the grassroots is remarkable. the movement around climate change is so much more danced because people are suffering especially island nations in their countries will be submerged. it's a certification of africa. we just don't hear about it. we just hear about it in terms of weather reports. whether we are talking about forest fires in california to colorado the drenching rains superstorm sandy or the dust bowl conditions of the midwest, we should hear about this as much as we hear the weather

being severe or extreme. why? and what can we do about a? we just talk about in this book just people who don't go looking for trouble but when it comes to them how they speak out. like the kids in connecticut and a teacher. >> host: who was or is bonnie dickinson speaking of which? >> guest: bonnie dickinsodickinso n is a drama teacher at wilton high in connecticut, and the kids and bonnie decided to do a play that year. every year high schools have their annual play plan they wanted to a play about the iraq war. they took the letters and statements of his joel -- soldiers and they made a play and they made the costumes and they learn their lines and they were very enthusiastic. i saw the theater and everything but as it was coming time for the performance the principal walked in and said you can learn your lines and keep the passions

but you're not performing this play here. the kids said what are you talking about? we do a play every year and we have chosen to do this one. he said no you're not going to take on the issue of war. they begged and pleaded and he said that ship has sailed. then "the new york times" in an article about the censorship and that led to theaters in new york like the culture project and the public theater to invite the high school students to do what actors dream of all their lives, go to perform on the new york stage. i went to one of these productions and did a talk with the kids afterwards. it was amazing. i did it, the soldiers whose words were taken were in the audience so deeply moving. and bonnie almost lost her job as the drama teacher. these children learned a tremendous lesson. if you stand up to the madness

in extraordinary times interestingly the man who wrote stepford wives lived in wilton connecticut and he wrote letters to "the new york times" congratulating the kids and the drama class of wilton high, saying congratulations for not aimed step toward iced. the stepford wives was based in wilton connecticut. ..

breaking the sound barrier as an introduction by bill meijer, and the silenced majority, uprisings, occupations, resistance and hope, has an introduction by michael moore. and these are the weekly interviews that we do on democracy now, and taking one story each week and sort of making that -- bringing that out to be published in newspapers around the country. there's so much to cover. in that week of the tenth anniversary of iraq, we interviewed thomas yonk. thomas is a young soldier who went to iraq and wasn't there five days before he was in sadr,

and the same day the son of cindy sheehan died. but thomas was shot. and he was paralyzed from the neck down. came back to the united states. and we started speaking out against war after he was somewhat rehabilitated. then he threw a pulmonary elm blimp -- embolism a few years ago and his physical health started do tee-deteriorate. and he sent a camera crew to his home because he was so soft-spoken. and we had fill donahue.

the open practice before open practice and then a show on msnb, right before the invasion, and was dumped, even though it was the most popular show on msnbc, it was the 58 -- 8:00 slot, and we got a memo, we won't have an antiwar face on flagship show when the other networks are waving the american flag. i think that expressing that view, having guests on that dare to speak out against war, is patriotic. but the documentary about thomas, and thomas was deciding whether to take his own life, and he says he cannot deal with the pain. he feels the veterans

administration has failed him. he is in terrible pain. he had a tremendous world to live but the pain has work him down and many soldiers find themselves in the situation. the horrific number of suicides of soldiers coming home from iraq and afghanistan, almost one day, and you put that together with all the veterans of the united states -- i still find this hard to believe -- 18 people a day, but thomas yonk has announced he will take his own life in the next few months. i said there is anything that would deter you from this? what if you could deal with the pain? and he said, that would be different. but his story is one that everyone should know. and just talking about activism, and what it means to say, no, which is also a very brave act of saying, yes. earlier in this discussion i

talked about the little rock nine. we also just passed the 100th 100th anniversary of the birth of the great rosa parks, and i think it's really instructive to know her story, because the media has gotten that story wrong as well. i remember when she died in 2005. everyone knows it. and the basic outline of what she did is accurately described. but in 2005, when she died, we raced down to washington because we knew she was the first african-american woman to lay in state and lay in honor of the capitol rotunda. now president obama just dedicated her statue. and then her body taken to a big washington church, touchdowns came out. open practice, julian bond, and they had loud speakers outside so everyone could hear, and i saw a young student and she said

she is going to get an education, i won't be in class today. so the story that is told -- she sits on the bus december 1, 1955, refuses to get up when asked to do so by a white bus driver. refuses to get up by a white passenger, and in so doing stands up for everyone. she refused to get up. she launches the modern-day civil rights movement. a few days later she goes to court, 1955, and the montgomery association chooses as their leader a young minister who just came into town. martin luther king. and a year later the supreme court decision, the bus boycott wearing down the city of montgomery, and the transportation system of montgomery is integrated. i remember when we came down to washington, i remember the networks that day, cnn actually was a story they did. they said rosa parks was a tired

seam stress. she was no troublemaker. she was a first-class troublemaker. she was secretary of the local naacp. there's a great book that just came out, called "rebellious life of mrs. rosa parks." she was a secretary at the local naacp. she worked under e.d. nixon. he worked with randolph, the greatest organizer of the 20th 20th century, organized the 1963 march on washington. he and ever b. nixon formed the black porters, thousands of them who rode the trains, they called george, and there's a famous story of eleanor roosevelt taking phillip randolph to meet

with fdr, and the describes the condition of black people in this done there to the president, president roosevelt, and describes the condition of working people, and fdr listens intendly and responds, i don't disagree with anything you said but you'll have to make me do it. and interestingly when barack obama was running for president the first time, he was in the backyard of a new jersey home, 100 people there to see him and he was taking questions, and the man at the back raised hit expand said what are you going to do about the middle east. he repeated the story of phillip randolph and fdr, and fdr saying to randolph, make me do it. that's interesting for anyone in this done there to be a responsible citizen. you have to make your demands known. but rosa parks knew just what she was doing. she was an activist. she trained at the highlander center in tennessee. king had been there black and

white together, learning to strategize to change the laws. the media denigrates activists but what could be more noble than dedicating your life to make the world a better place, and to show how brave rosa was ex-go back to the summer of 1955 to the killing of emma ll. a 14-year-old african-american boy, and went to mississippi to be with an spawn uncle and cousin and is lynched. dragged out of the bed in the middle of the night by a white bomb and -- mob and ends up in the body of the river. when emma's body was found, -- emmett was 14, she was 14 when she dee integrated the central high school in, a. but emmett, when his body was sent back to chicago, his

mother, maimy till, wasn't an activist, she was forced into this. losing her only child. she said she wanted the casket open for the wake and the funeral. she wanted the world to see the ravages of racism. the brutality of big industry. thousands streamed by his casket and saw, and then jet magazine, another black publication, took photographed of the disextendded, mutilated head, and they were published and seared into the history and consciousness of this country. she had something very important to teach the press. show the pictures. show the images. cue imagine if for just one week we saw the images of war, every newspaper had a picture of a dead baby on the ground, naming her, writing an article about her. every top of every tv and radio

newscast, story of a soldier dead and dying. every facebook wall, every tweet, every e-mail told the story of a woman's whose legs were blown off, family killed in a treason attack, -- a drone attack, americans are compassionate and they would say no. war is not the answer to conflict. >> host: our guest on in depth this month, author and journalist, amy goodman. jeff in bend oregon, you have been the most patient caller in history. please go ahead. >> caller: thank you for taking my call. you visited us last summer. >> guest: yeshigh desert community radio. i remember that journey very well. it was a great honor. >> caller: it has want honor to have you. my question is about the low-powered mf radios intended

to fill the void of local reporting on local community issues, and licenses have been issued to organizations which predominantly broadcast sin dictated content rather than local content, and what's your opinion on this and the issues of local grassroots access to the media. thank you. >> guest: it's very important when the fcc opens up these windows where there are stations that are made available, either low-pour -- low-power stations or full power stations. it's a real opportunity for people to have local media in their community, and whether it's a grassroots global news hour that connects the dots between communities around the world or local programming, which is so important, so people in a community have a voice. these are very important moments, and i just want to also comment that right now, julius

janikowski, the chair of the fcc, the federal communications commission, announced he is stepping down. another fcc commissioner is also stepping down. that leaves two of the five seats open. this is a very critical time for fcc policy. we know what happened about ten years ago. i talked about colin powell being secretary of state and making the publish for war at the ewan in 2003. his son was the chair of the fcc, the federal communications commission. it used to be people didn't know what the fcc was. this arcane agency of the u.s. government. but they sure figured it out fast when michael powell started to try to deregulate the media. which meant a lot of people across the political spectrum are deeply concerned about one media mogul owning a newspaper,

radio, television, in a town, and when you relax the regulations, that's what happens, and it is very dangerous when you only have one media mogul towns and cities. it's a very serious issue. we need to open up the discussion. and what counts as not having hundreds of cable changes. what counts is who owns them. and also the internet. we have to fight to ensure that the internet remains open and free. for all people to be able to communicate. and not let the powercomes and the cable companies that would privatize this invaluable public resource. >> host: want to acknowledge this tweet from george. if goodman speaks for the real american majority i must reconcile myself again to a minority status. typical leftism, and this e-mail from donna in tallahassee. i remember another time when

amy's role as a journalist was grossly and unfairly compromised on march 8, 2002, international women's day. code pink was sponsoring a rally and civil disobedience against the coming iraq war. several of us, including alex walkers, maxine hall, and terry williams broke through a police line in front of the white house, arrested by park police. amy was videotaping the action as a journalist but was arrested any. i was in the paddy wagon with her as we were taken to jail and she was fuming the entire trip. keep up your brave journalism, amy. >> guest: well, that was a very significant moment. we weren't doing -- i was actually on my cell phone interviewing these women in front of the white house, who had managed to break through, asking what they were going to be doing. the police were there, lined up with horses, and going on different community radio stations, and talking to them.

and the police, when i moved back, as the police were moving in, they took me first. >> host: amy goodman made the statement that flairing off gas on oil wells was being done in nigeria, but it was illegal in the u.s. it is in fact being done in the ball canines in north dakota. this is an e-mail. >> guest: very interesting. i want to know more about what is happening is in country and when things are legal and illegal. in nigeria, these were apartment building size flares that wouldn't -- in most places would not be allowed in the united states, and i'll look into what you're saying about north dakota. >> host: jesse was in elizabeth town, pennsylvania. please go ahead with your question or comment for amy goodman. >> caller: great. very, very glad you can have me. aisle the director of the powers writers house in elizabeth town

college and elizabethtown pennsylvania. democracy now, fantastic organization. i was just wondering, aimy, if perhaps you could speak a little bit about other organizations you think are doing the same kind of good work you are, and let me take this moment to personally invite you to our writer's house. we'd love to have you out there and spend time with us. >> guest: i'd thereof come -- i'd love to come and thank you very much. independent media is on the rise in the united states. all over the country you see public access tv, public television, pbs, community radio, college radio, web sites that are truly independent, and it's very important and it's so important in the community for people to know where they can make their own media. you can't just walk into nbc, cbs, and abc, and make a program. you need to learn the tools.

the media can be the most powerful force on earth. it's the way we learn about the world if we're not from the place,. how do you learn about it? it was all too often through a corporate lens and we need it to be through an independent lens, and certainly need the rest of the world to see us through an independent lens. that is a matter of national security. so, there are many different organizations, online, media groups, media literacy groups, look in your community. you can go to democracy now.org. our global news hour, and we link to so many different -- we interview every day so many different people representing different groups. >> host: in fact, for the caller previous, you can send an invitation to you as well off that web site. who is juan gonzalez. >> guest: i just left him in denver last night. he is heading back this morning to new york.

juan is one of the great journalists in this country today. juan is co-host of democracy now from its inception 17 years ago. he is also columnist for the new york daily news for years, juan has written many books. his latest two are -- well -- new news for people. the epic story of race in the american media. " a critical look written by joe torres, another journalist who works with free press, the organization that put on the national conference for media reform in denver this weekend. this book is a history of how the media developed in this country, with a particular attention on presses of color throughout the country, and the coverage of communities of color throughout the united states. the book previous to that, which was just recently reissued, is

called "harvest of empire." and his book is required reading in many schools, and a film west just made. the harvest of empire, untold stories of latinos in america, and it tells a very different story around the issue of exception why people come to the united states. whether we're talking about from nicaragua, guatemala, mexico, where most immigrants in the united states are from, latin america come from. and want to couple that with the news this week of the dropping of the i-word by ap. this weekend juan was on the panel with a group of young women, and one is the publish of

color lines.com. they were one of the groups that led the "drop the i-word campaign." to two years. the term is illegal immigrant or illegal alien. the term is illegal, to describe a person. that is what they wanted dropped, and the ap has finally made that decision, that you can refer to an illegal activity but you don't refer to a person as an illegal. it's very important because "associated press" provides news to news outlets around the country. it's not only a news organization in itself. so that change, and one of the things juan talked about on the panel is the changes when we -- when news organizations stop using the word "colored" or the word "negro." these are big decisions in a newspaper's history. the question is, well "the new york times" stop using this?

will the "washington post"? but ap has mading this decision. and it also shows in our coverage this is the week, on democracy now, the difference between democracy now and a lot of the other media. when something like this happens, or a decision gets made bay president or vice president or congress, we show the organizing that went into making that happen. is it just the leadership of ap that wakes up in the morning and says, over coffee, why don't we drop the i-word? why don't we stop describing people as illegals. it comes from years of campaigning. just the same with legislation. for example, legislation that public broadcasting in the country that lyndon johnson signed off, so often the history books just say that. but it comes from grassroots activism, and nothing more american than that. and that is what it is important

to show. journalism is the first draft of history. not just the story of the leaders. it's the story of the people on the ground that make those leaders and make their demands of those leaders, and that's what we try to document. how this happens. >> host: next call, little over half an our left with our guest. beth in connecticut. >> caller: how are you doing? very big supporter of democracy now. i'm very much enjoying this show. i have a quick comment and a question. >> guest: can i ask you, where do you hear or watch or read democracy now? >> caller: i'm a -- i think one of the -- i think it's university of hartford. >> guest: uh-huh. whuf? >> caller: i think it comes on twice a day but i'm not sure. >> guest: this is a radio station that is one of the oldest community radio stations in the country. i think it's the second olders.

students at wesleyan university ran some wire in the basement of the university, think it was 1939,; community media in this country is so important because it shows this hunger for communicating with each other, for bringing out independent voices. so it's great to hear from you, beth. >> host: go ahead, beth. >> caller: i'm sick of watching the mainstream media, and cable. but i have a quick comment and then a question if i may. my quick comment is that eye. a jewish-american. i am a member of jewish voices for peace and i do not agree with the commenter on i think done -- about the israeli college. we're not getting the full message and i want to put that out there because the jewish community is not homogenius. there's a lot of white house know that there's -- a lot of us who know there's a lot more to

this issue. my main issue question has to do with the transpacific partner ship free trade agreement, which is a very scary agreement. worse than nafta. one of the main precepts is that corporations will not have to follow the laws of the country in which they're doing business. and it's being negotiated behind closed doors with many different countries in the asian east area, and even our legislators aren't even knowing what is going on. i have written several times to my nor and representative to see if they can get a copy of that. some was leaked on the public citizen web site. >> host: beth, let's gate response from our guest. >> guest: well, public citizen is very important source of information on these so-called free trade agreements, which are

often nothing more than corporate managed trade. they're not about free trade. and it's important that we just discuss this, and not only democracy now but all of the media who benefits and who doesn't. and we'll certainly do more on that. thanks. >> host: on our facebook page, facebook.com/book tv jerry posts this comment: what is your view of ron and all the libertarian approach to society? >> guest: well, rob paul left the congress, a doctor from texas. his son, rand paul, is a senator now. we tried to interview ron paul many times. we were not able to. but -- um, i -- you know, it's not one opinion. it is about looking at the different issues that he dealt with. on the issue of war, he was

fiercely opposed to war, and i think you see that from right to left, you see why these lines are breaking down. where you have libertarians deeply concerned about war, certainly, ron paul was. the issues of his newsletters and the racism in the newsletters in his early years are of grave concern as well. and it just makes me think today there is no connection, just thinking of the last few weeks of our programming. one of the things we have been looking at are the terrible killings of the prison chiefs in colorado and then an ada in texas, and then a d.a. and his wife in texas. are there connections between these killings? and the concern of -- we don't know absolutely, though the colorado prison chief, it looks

like the suspect died in texas, part of a white supremacist prison gong gang who got out of jail, but the rise of the aryan brotherhood of texas is a very, very serious issue and i don't mean to connect that with the question just asked. i just moved on to another topic. but very few people know in this country about the seriousness of the threat of these white supremacist groups that the justice department places at the highest level. you can be sure if there were questions about whether these were african-americans or muslims, a lot more of the country would know about this. and we must know about what is happening there. these are very serious threats. >> ed e-mails from redmond, oregon. you're advocating the majority needs to do on gun control.

is that on democracy now? >> guest: we're covering the issue and like the rest of the immediator, though we don't cover it like the rest of the media. >> host: do you personally or your broadcast studio use armed security? that's his question. whether you choose to answer that is up to you. >> guest: we don't have armed security. i am -- >> host: do you worry about your safety? not in east timor necessarily. but anywhere else. >> guest: i just carry on doing my job. i mean, i think, on the issue of armed security, i was just thinking about the report that just came out from the national rifle association, pushing for armed guards in all the schools. we had serious discussion about this in addition to the nelson debate, nelson, georgia, the residents for and against every household being armed. on the same show we brought on

julius of the advancement project and they have come out very critical of this call armed guards in every school, in columbine, program, there was an armed guard there but didn't stop she shooting. what is happening to our schools and i'm a big advocate of public education. deeply concerned about people having access to education, no matter what family they're born into, it's the great equalizer in this country, and because resources are limited, it is also an issue of where those resources go. do you mak the schools armed camps or put the money into bettering education for young people in this country? and so these are the issues we have to debate. i think that question of gun control should also be put to president obama.

i mean, in -- business week, assistant managing editor at bloomberg week, had interesting bullet points about -- no pun intended on the bullet points -- but questioning president obama himself about where he stands on these issues. the words versus the action. yes, he went to colorado and is now going to connecticut, to push for gun control. but when its actually comes down it to, when dianne feinstein's assault weapon which child thousands of guns already, went down, the president obama speak? when he gave a "state of the union" address, many might remember or think of it as a time where he really came out for gun control. but there he was just pushing for voting on gun control, which paul barrett described as a way

for pro gun democrats to vote against getting a pass from president obama and i think this all comes from the top. the national rifle association is also just so important now in this whole discussion about corporations, to look at money and politics, and who makes decisions, and on whose behalf are they making these decisions, politicians who have been so beholding to the national rifle association for so long. >> amy goodman is our gift on book tv on c-span 2. this is our "in department" program. here are her books:

>> host: this e-mail comes from anita. amy, thank you for all you do. you're a true hero. would you please comment on the movement to end corporate personhood and also on scott silver's work related to this. we talked about this earlier but very briefly, if you wouldn't mind touching on it. >> guest: i don't know about the individual that the person is talking about, but the move to amend is a very important movement that is gaining momentum around the country, a constitutional amendment to strip corporations of personhood. and we're just documenting that as it happens. >> host: sherry lynn french from kauai, aloha, amy. i congratulate you on the courage displayed during the republican convention in minneapolis-st. paul when you

jumped the fence to continue reporting. please tell us more about the explosion their interaction with protesters. mahalo and aloha to you. >> guest: a big hello to you. i mean, our experience covering not this past republican convention but the republican convention in st. paul, minneapolis in 2008, was extremely serious. the democracy now team went, as many other news organizations did, and as many other news organizations were subjected to, we were arrested at the republican convention. i was arrested along with two of my colleagues. one now reports from egypt, and nicole, multimedia producer at the time, and it was the first day of the republican convention, which didn't bode well for how things were going to go. it was monday. we were covering a peace protest in the morning, beautiful blue sky day and 10,000 people were marching from st. paul to the

center where the convention was going to take place that afternoon. we were covering the protest. it was led by soldiers, some in full military regular -- uniform, and they risk doing that. and i went to the floor of the convention. >> host: you had credentials? >> guest: oh, yeah. all of us do. so i went to cover the convention floor, and my colleagues went back to the studio where we were broadcasting from, to start to digitize tape and prepare the show for the next day. so i'm on the floor of the convention, and interviewing delegates from the hottest state at the time, alaska, and i get a call on my cell phone, come quickly to seventh and jackson in st. paul. nicole and cherise have been arrested and bloodied by police.

i said what are you talking about? they're in the tv studio. i left them. it was our senior producer, he said get over there quickly. they're still there. so, i was wick rick rowling, a remarkable journalist and videographer who was filming my interviews on the floor of the convention, and we raced down the streets of st. paul to the corner of seventh and jackson, an old parking lot. the police had lined the area. they fully contained the area so there was no action takes place at that point. when i came to the police, my full credentials on around my neck, just come from the convention floor that allowed me to interview presidents and vice presidents and delegates. so i come along the police line and i stopped, looking for the highest authority there, and i just stopped at one of the police officers police officers and said, excuse me, i'd like to talk to your

commanding officer. two of my colleagues with credentials are inside here and they have been arrested and we need to have them released. i it wasn't seconds before the police ripped me through, pulled me through the police line, twisted my arms back, slapped the handcuffs on, put me up against the car, then against a wall and on to the ground. and i'm still desperately looking, from my vantage point on the ground, for cherise and nicole. i demand to be brought in and finally the police did. we're both standing, credentials in clear view, and we were saying we demand to be released and the secret service then came and ripped the credentials from around our necks. and the police take me and put me in the police van and there's nicole. her arm was bleeding. nicole, her face was bleeding and she was handcuffed. said, nicole, what happened? she said, well, you went to the

convention floor. we went back to the studio to prepare the show. we heard a commotion outside. we wouldn't have been doing their jobs if they hadn't put down the tape, run downstairs, grabbed their camera and microphone, and they started filming. nicole did not plan to film her own violent arrest. you see the film very clearly. the riot police are coming at her and they're shouting, on your face, on your face, and move. she was against parked cars in a parking lot. she was trapped, she was filming and saying move -- where? and they saids on your face. she didn't know what hit her from in front of her and behind the police took her down on her face, pulling on her leg, which is dragging her face in the gravel. they've got their knee or boot in her back. the first thing to go down was her camera on the ground and the first thing they did with the camera is pull the battery out of the camera. cherise, who is a superb

journalist, just won major award from a college, the park center for independent media, the award -- cherise is right there, and he said to the police, calm done! and they take him they show him up against the wall, kick him twice in the chest, bloody his arm, and say, felony riot charges. i was charged with interfering with a police peace officer. if there was only a peace officer in the vicinity. so i was taken to the garage and taken to jail. there were so many responses from around the country that were -- i don't know -- affectioned, e-mailed, tweeted, that i was released and cherise and nicole were released, and i was brought over to the convention center in the nbc sky box, and after the interview, a reporter came over to me and said, don't get it. why wasn't i arrested? i said, were you outside

covering the protest? and he said no; and i said, well, i mean, -- this is what i thought. you got to get out there. 90% of life is just showing up. our josh is to be -- job is to be on the convention floor, talk to delegates about the issues, get into the corporate suites or at least try to. and who is financing the campaign committee, and tools be in the streets where the uninvited guests are, and they have something important to say as well. you know, democracy is a messy thing, and it's our job to capture it all, and we shouldn't have to get a record when we put things on the record. so we sued the st. paul, minneapolis, police, the secret service. ultimately we settled for a civics figure amount. the secret service did not want to admit they were the ones to pull our credentials awful but

the police already told us when they said -- we said you have no right to pull our credentials and they said it wasn't us, it was the secret service. we held a news conference. we were not alone in being arrested. more than 40 journalists were rainfalled that week, and it is -- war arrested that week. it is not anti-sale. we have to be able to do our job. it is not a comfortable one. we have to be in our places and when the police -- when there is a protest and they say, you don't go -- you don't follow this protest on to the bridge, who will be the eyes and ears? who will watch what is happening? and right now there is a unprecedented trial going on in new york, the stop and frisk case. hundreds of thousands, 700,000 last year, african-american and latino overwhelmingly young people, usually young men, are stopped and frisked by police. we have to be there to see this, and the question is now, will

the police change their policy? it's not a comfortable position but we occupy a certain role in society, and that is to hold those in power accountable and we have to be free to do our job. it protects the democratic society. >> host: amy goodman recounsels the story of 2008, g.o.p. convention in breaking the sound barrier. how was your treatment in tampa in 2012? >> guest: we covered the convention and covered it from beginning to end as we did the charlotte convention. what was really interesting about the democratic convention in charlotte, is the first day of the convention, the action that took place was of undocumented immigrantsed risking so march came up in a bus covered with butterflies and got out of the bus, and started to walk quickly and chant, undocumented and unafraid. no papers no fear.

no papers, no fear. they went to the front of the convention center -- remember, this is the democratic convention they're protesting, and they unfurled a banner the rain with a big butterfly and families were getting arrested. there was one gentleman who came off the bus who said, i have paid my taxes in this country for 18 years, which is more than city citibank can say, and his wife and his daughter were arrested along with others, and as one of the women were getting arrested, as the police moved in on them, asked her why the butterflies, this image of the but are flies? and she said, because butterflies no know -- know no borders, butterflies are free. >> host: larry in send trail ya, washington, -- centralia, washington, you're on the phone with amy goodman. >> caller: a pleasure to speak with amy and c-span.

i read -- pops up in j paul bremer, his assistant book. second comment, condoleezza rice on the board of chevron, says what a wonderful job chevron is doing in nigeria. your comment, please. >> guest: all of these people are central figures to the occupation of iraq. and it's very important that we reflect back now as this country moves on, -- well there are two different issues. one is, should those who held high office be held accountable? should bay they be tried? and this is one of the movements that has developed over the years. i if people aren't held accountable for their actions,

that history will repeat itself. now, president obama has taken a very strong stand on this '. he says we should look forward, shouldn't look back, but there are many who feel that the only way to move forward is to hold those in power accountable. those who had power in the past. and the iraq war is a very important place to start. because we now know, you know, that saddam hussein did not have those weapons of mass destruction, despite the fact that "the new york times" present it -- printed story after story on the front pages by judith miller and michael gordon. about a year later they did write an article, they had a box on page a-10, something like "the new york times" and iraq. ...

>> host: beyond being a great female journalist, what is amy

goodman say about feminism? expwhrg, i mean, i talked about rosa parks today. who i think was a great feminist. standing up for women and all people and african-americans. i talked about her role. these are women whoa stood up. there was a pdf series recently called "makers" i was privileged to be a part of. people can go to our website. we have a link to it or got pdf website. many women across the political spectrum. i don't know, you know, -- you know, there's no question young women come up to me and talk about what they want to do in the future. how important it is to know who came before us, who were those

remarkable pioneers. who risked everything to make it possible far young women say i want a profession. i want to get throughout. i want to make a difference. i want to save the world. and to have the confidence to be able to do that. so we're -- owe a lot to our foremothers. i think that's what femme ?ifm all about >> host: going back up to standing to the masses. there's a story there in breaking the sound barrier. i can't remember which one. about the gentleman who wrote "over the rain bow ." >> guest: well, he was one of my dad's favorites, and it was -- it would be familiar to many to the lyric we wrote. you know the song "brother, can you spare a dime" was as

relevant today as back in the '20s and' 30s. you often know the musician but you don't often know thely cyst. he was a blacklist of lyricist. he put together the wiz wizard of oz. he wrote "somewhere over the rain bow ." he didn't have a rain bow actually. and, you know, the first integrated and all-black show on broadway. "cabin in the sky "one of the people in the play was a guy called joe and during the mccarthy era joe mccarthy said he was talking about joseph stalin or joseph lennon. i can't remember who it was.

it's very inspiring to see all that he brought us from "brother can you spare dime" to the wizard of oz. as people watch the "wizard of oz" every thanksgiving. what is interesting that remarkable production got more and more attention on television as he was blacklisted for many years and had to years different names or couldn't work at all. yes, i write about it and am inspired. i did a special. folks can go to the website and watch and tread. >> host: it's in the most recent book. >> guest: i'm sure i referred it to it in other ones. >> host: i want to ask you about the story in "breaking the sound barrier" what is mount misery? >> guest: how much time? >> host: two and a half minutes. >> guest: that's tough. in 2003, you know, got this

property in eastern maryland and saint michaels, which is called -- well, frederick douglass, the great abolitionist was born in eastern maryland and he was enslaved as he was as a teen. he was enslaved by a man -- and frederick douglass started the north star niewp as form of liberation and changed the world. the property mount misery was bought by donald rumsfeld. he was secretary of defense. i went down there to the property to see if it could be true. went to an all-black church done the road and asked the folks right before the sunday service what do you think? here you have the -- at the time of the secretary of defense donald rumsfeld. so you frederick douglass who was tourtured -- tortured and

ultimately escaped. and you have donald rumsfeld owning the very property who was held who is known for torture. when you talk about donald rumsfeld when you talk about guantanamo and iraq. and the lay i -- lady said i can't comment we're in church. >> host: steve in seattle we have a minute. >> caller: thank you. i want to express my gratitude and respect for amy's work and the work of her team. i'm grateful of the reasonable and thinking individual in america. i'm very glad for what you do. i want to quickly ask having seen the documentary and being moved by it today. after so many years of dealing with the difficult issues and mind wrenches and heart wrenching of townshippics facing our nation. what is your resources for hope on a day to day basis as you deal with working people to some

of the most difficulting and challenging topics. >> that's an important issue how we draw hope. i'm often concerned we have difficult issues to with. people who watch or listen to democracy now will be overwhelmed. but i'm always amazed they say they draw hope from what they see. because, you know, the annual democracy now are not the typically analyst you get on the networking. the no-nothing pundit as i call them. they are the people who are deeply engaged in the community. they're not only able lidsing the situation. they are talking about how they are dealing with it. you don't have a sense that something is hopeless. or people take action. that is what is great a about the country. it's documenting those actions throughout the country and around the world. how in iraq today which is still torn apart by what happened in

2003 by the u.s. innovation. how do people orange and draw hope? and the in haiti that dealt with so much from the hurricane to the dismi to is devastated by the neighbor to the north, by the united. how do people deals that's what i draw inspiration now. one of the things duo we give con text. we talk about history. what people have done before. to show the richness of what is taking place in this country and around the world fop give a context which is often so lacking in the rest of the media. there are remarkable hero and her reins all over. it's give voice to those people i find so deeply now riching and

hopeful. would you have refused the interview to him as they insisted on putting restrictions on the quos you could ask? >> guest: i just was -- , i mean, to me when they say he would only answer the question. you must make clear to the people listening and watching what it is they are saying. very clearly they -- there were no restriction finance you have restrictions you could say i understand you will not be talking about. you're free not to answer it. we'll ask you what we ask you. you can say whether you're willing to answer it. would you consider moderating a presidential debate in 2006 as well as determining its format or would you please describe what a meaningful series of

presidential debates? >> guest: yes, actually enwe gauged in 2012. we are are waiting for 2016. the first presidential debate was in denver. we went to denver, and, you know, before e went to denver we went to virginia to virginia terek. there we met with colin. he was one of those people who was shot up during the masker in 2007. he has -- and he took me through virginia tech where the massacre took place. he is now working with the brady campaign. he was working during the campaign to get the moderators of the debate to ask a question about gun control. to ask a question about gun violence. where y is it to so difficult?

we interviewed him and toured through virginia tech. then we flew to denver and expanded the debate. it was broadcast on public television and radio around the country. we did it for every debate. the presidential candidates were at the university of denver. and the med rater -- moderator was jim lay her. you had the bright blue background and the two podiums. each time you didn't actually know in advance how it was going to look. we wanted to mirror what they did. we were broadcasting from a comcast evaluate down the reed interestingly in littleton, where columbine high school is. we set up the exact -- very similar backdrop. that said democracy now and rented two podium and dressed

them similarly. we invited third-party presidential candidates in. we invited salt lake city mayor, rocky anderson, who ran on the justice party line, and we also invited in dr. joe stein of the green party. they stood at the podium, i sat in relation to him as jim sat in relation to the major party presidential candidates. when the debate began, it began with jim asking them a question and i think he said -- you have two minutes to answer a question. that was followed by mitt romney. you have two minutes to answer the question. we stopped the video tape and said dr. joel stein, you have two minutes to answer the question, rocky anderson, you have two minutes to answer the question. back to my colleague, jim. with the next question. and we, of course, doubled the

time of the debate, because we were adding two people. and we have them respond every one of the same questions. that's what expanding the debate sounds like. that's what it looks like. we did that in denver, and we did it with the other debate as well. and the difference is you heard it made you ask questions about the two-party system how much they agree and disagree. i sometimes think it's not partisan gridlock that is the problem in washington. it's the bipartisan consensus. >> host: we have been talking with author and journalist amy goodman. her five nonfiction books. the exception was the first.

@democracynow is her twitter handle. thank you very much for being on booktv. >> guest: thank you. it's been a privilege. open the next "washington journal" michael discusses the latest development from syria. including what kind of role the u.s. and international community might play. after that, "the wall street journal" reporter damn began pal et ta on the upcoming battle over the debt limit. in mid october the government will reach the $16.7 trillion level.