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>> and depression and growing up for in the dust bowl. win i wrote about the gun fight at the o.k. corral that was not really a gunfight and not really at the o.k. corral. [laughter] but the accident -- accidental shooting on fremont street did not have the same ring when people would write the history. talking about the last part of the american frontier it occurred to me a lot of that unique period known as the late '60s is the there completely forgotten or else people put their own little twist this some people say it was the hit me with a lot of sex and drugs but other

people remember the passion the students marching in the street other people remember the space-age with the cold war still going on. when they interviewed tom up for the bookies said he doesn't take there has never been a couple of years that we were bombarded every day it is seems impossible to comprehend. we had called beloved leaders or controversial leaders in history. a war dividing the country. more racial violence in america then since reconstruction. there was a time when great literature was written, a great music composed, the myth -- when the mets won

the world series c would understand this was as miraculous as it could get. the nth degree day a man first walked of the food. on that day, off -- the women of the manson family were doing what they did every day for from charles defense if full limit their role was dictated by the bible by the beatles and him he said the investor be subservient to men at all times so every afternoon they were required for the sewing circle because that is what women were supposed to do. hey were sitting there selling leslie, patricia the

woman known as squeaky, as sandy, susan, linda, the names that you have heard before in their also doing. one of the says i heard there is a man on the moon and they started to laugh at her and they followed the man that he was jesus christ and there was the apocalyptic race war about to be wrapped where the blacks would annihilate whites the manson family would hide in the bottomless pit in the mojave desert where as they hit, they could change into any pretty little being they wanted to including ferries and else in with the war was over in

the black race would stand alone they could not govern themselves so they would come out of the whole and rule the world. these women who believe that wind up one of them had the nerve to claim a man was walking on the moon, they laughed and said come on. somebody is making that up. the three years i have worked on this book i did not hear an anecdote that quite captured the manson family buying into what the verge period from there peter sam blocking help the outside wealth if he told them it was not safe if they ventured out without him, they would never last.

so was my intention to write the book of charles manson in the late 1960's so i made a list of people of defense that i thought would be interesting for me to know more about i thought about the weathermen you may remember them. in the era in any given week in 1960, 1970, according to government records they've averaged just over a domestic terrorist bombings in this country that is every week. we have seen in recent years terrible attacks on our country from outsiders. 1969, 1970, the attacks came from ourselves. but when i started to look at that they're just are not

specific individuals. to try to capture the main players what else is there? that i heard about the students for the democratic society. or the sds. i was in college and the sds of which talk about over for throwing the government and then we had to bring the war back to america. i was in college paying my way by working at kmart because my father had a little bit of a pension from the government i did not want to overthrow then but bill bears a courier not they have told their story

and i think pretty complete. what is less -- what is left? i ask myself who is one person from 60 niner's 70 whose name would be recognizable not just to folks at our age those who are still in college? and that left me to do two things. after reading the other books about charles manson and there has been many, but last count was by reputable publishers since 1975 there have been 171 books about charles manson. if you throw in the self published books a and to this day i am sure you realize he has active

followers better publishing their books on the internet. all of these days have been written but have not found a book that is the one i wanted to write. of the definitive book called helter-skelter has so far sold eight planned for a billion copies. in the first week my book in print "new york times" best-seller list number 13 that means i am the 8.3 9-9-9 behind but if you are in a good mood tonight. [laughter] maybe you could move me up in the rankings a little bit. the author who was so kind to me i cannot stress his generosity enough told the story of the rest of the

manson family of the trial that followed and they did a brilliantly. first of all, i wanted to find out how he became the person he was and all he had to go on is what ms. hanson himself once to tell people the illegitimate son of a prostitute mother who cared so little about her child she would sell him for a picture of the year and as a child he was used by the uncle's she would have moved in one after another. he was nine or 10 and she was so tired to even take care of him that she threw

him into the juvenile justice system where he suffered greatly and from there his life turned bad. he did that know who his father was and he did not think his mother knew. said he said even as a child the street was his daughter and the prison was his mother and that is what people accepted so i decided to check it out to look at his whole life and how did he get there. second question. where was he and what kinds of things were happening in the culture that made it possible for charles manson to recruit a few festive followers to do these awful things? history does not happen in a vacuum and i am trying to convince a charles manson was paroled from prison and

five in nebraska and ended of the falloff instead of tossing angeles he would have been put on a pitchfork and stock in the field as the scarecrow and was in the right place at the right time. but i thought i would do, you have heard over and over people's different versions of what happened august 9th and august 10th, 1969. there is some new material in my book because of the course of my interviewing quite a few people especially patricia who was involved both states in besides a couple of sound bites on the 25th anniversary should never given a full account she explained it all in such depth with such honesty and clarity that she ended up answering tough final

questions the lapd had about the murders. yes there is new things but if it is o.k. i would like to talk very briefly about four parts of the book charles manson his life and where he grew up. start with his childhood they are all lies. from the simple visits to county courthouses charles mason was not a legitimate. his mother when she was 15 was unhappy with her fundamentalist christian mother nancy who believe that girls should not cut their hair or wear makeup or

the final evil which was the in thing. -- dancing. i was given dates and places to try to look and the fear of the new the real benson family including charles himself. while she is 15 coming kathleen, living in kentucky crosses a bridge over the river to a town that goes to i your chin because there are some clubs there were people can dance event at one club, ritzy wray she meets a man, an exciting

older man coming 29 years old named colonel scott, but that is his given name, not a military rank but the colonel doesn't mind letting the 50 year-old girls think he is a war hero but actually he works in the factory and is married with his two children, the part that he leaves out. later she becomes pregnant she is 15. she tells colonel scott. the colonel announces he will do the right thing for her but he has just been called away by the army. he will come back in just a couple weeks and they will take care of everything. so kathleen goes to her mother and says she is pregnant and the father will marry her you can imagine her mother's reaction but

nancy really does love kathleen and says they will get through this it is not the child all and colonel scott never comes back and kathleen is furious. there is another fellow in kathleen's life and his name is william meehan said. a common laborer whose treatment is to be a leader. knowing kathleen is pregnant he marries her five months before the birth there is never any question that charles manson was a legitimate. his birth certificate was filed a few weeks after his birth million man singh listed as the father but the whole family in charles new the real father was colonel scott. sova later rumored that he

hated blacks because he had of a black father, and never ever. their marriage last a couple years and he divorces her if she is still young girl trying to run around and have a little fun and her son is left with strangers or not offered for a pitcher of beer but sticks him with her mother or her sister but is careful always. kathleen and her brother botching and attempted robbery and tried to use of a ketchup bottle to say it is a gun the newspapers have been a great time calling them the ketchup bottle bandits the greatest dunderheads ever and kathleen gets five years in prison and loser gets to

end. that is of kathleen's record. never once anywhere before then or in the next 15 years will is there any record warned about the prostitute, arrested for prostitution but chart out smith was not the child of of prostitute ever. he goes to live in western and virginia in a factory town with his aunt and uncle and his cousin who was three years older. i found joanne who has never talked before you will see the photo it section includes pictures from his baby to wedding album those came from joanne and his sister nancy they tell the real story.

here's something interesting with joann said from the time they came to live with him of five years old, he is scary. he is violent and lies about everything the first person he ever physically attacked was to wait and picked up vesicle and tried to stab her and the parents stopped him but he said she made me do it. is not my fault she is older than me and i was defending myself. in first grade not only told by a amanda corroborated by a others who were in school at the time of come in first grade he organizes a boy a to beat up a boy he does not like in the principle comes looking into the explanation ? said girls were doing what they were wanting to do you cannot blame me. the same defense that he

uses later. his mother gets out of jail and wants her son back and they live in a number of places and no deal goes are not coming in all the time but charles is incorrigible and his mother gets a job vinegar schuster restarts shoplifting in baking the patrons to bite him candy. he is scary. she talks to her mother, the sister, the school authorities and this is documented what can i do to help charles? the common agreement is there are some schools for boys may be can follow rules not juvenile detention centers, they did not have

senses and when they did not come he ran away then he did things. the pitcher on the cover is a pitcher of charles manson the day she turned 13 promise suit and tie brought on charges of armed robbery. 13. the question is which rigid detention center will he be sent to? but even then he knows how to convince people he is not that bad and convinces the judge that he is a devout catholic. said judge sense him to boys town were three days after he arrives he steals the priest car and heads for the coast were. from their egos into juvenile detention.

he is tiny and scrawny. heebie beaten unfair the way other boys but within the six months charles victor was the predator. attacking other weaker kids an organizing boys. but then in seven cisco and glossy angeles you brag he

would play the insane game. to keep bigger boys away from him to intimidate staff , he would act as crazy as he could to just scream and with a laughing that is the beginning that he calls the part of his life the man of 1,000 hats the matter who knows me he could change his personality on a dime to make you like him and trust him he is very proud of this. then his agent -- his aunt's says if you are released from the prison system his

mother grandmother his into an uncle and cousin to rand. he decides to live with his grandmother who says he can only live with her her, rent-free if he goes to the nazarene church services with her every sunday to join the nazarene teenager club. the house where he and his grandmother lived is still there and the churches across the street and some of his classmates are still life and still willing to not only to remember charles manson but they have photographs of the book. charlie wants to impress them. when clitoris' something he

figured when he would set them straight they would follow him. the nazarene church did not approve of halloween. you don't want to have those demonic influence is but the teenage kids, and they see their kids from school having a halloween parties and they want one to so the church elders say fine. you can have a hot dog cookout it all you kids can come intercostal tubes as long as they are not demotic and charlie is excited. he comes dressed as the carnival barker the hattie and the bay and around his arm and the kids let him in on a secret and they word do something special to take

seven aspirin and drop in a glass of coca-cola because when you dissolve aspirin into soda pop against you drunk. don't tell. added charles tells them, that is nothing and he brags in his recent past he was shooting up a have no idea what that means. at first they thought he meant it basketball then may be shooting roads lines but then they decide whatever it is they don't like it said he shunned by the kids his age but that is not the end of it because soon after that suddenly charlie go steady with the prettiest girl in town and then they will get married. people remember this is a

situation where the wedding came late in the baby came early but there was no immediate issue. attorneys grandmother gave him a wonderful wedding reception in her hell we have pictures of that of the proud families surrounding charlie in the mother standing in the corner clearing. she does not like this. and charlie go straight. it lasts about four months. he gets a steady day job in the works in the garage to store in the evening. but there is not enough money to go around so charlie gets another outside job to start stealing cars. just a few miles to the north he cannot steal clark on dash course there's of the steals across the river in ohio then driving them to

florida which is a federal crime that charlie does not think about that. meanwhile man since mother is tired in moves to los angeles, the woman that never loved charlie or never wanted him but he decides him and his wife will go to california and live with her and they do and charlie decides to augment his living in los angeles by a riding around in stolen cars. the cop catches him, he is brought to justice and he drove a stolen cars to florida that is a federal offense and should be present time but he pleads with them. his wife is pregnant. he had a terrible childhood and suffered greatly in his judgment is bad. show mercy.

of course, the court border's psychological studies then once he is out he steals another carbon into indianapolis then brought right back and sent to prison for three years. the wife visits then runs off with a trucker and gives birth to manhattan's first child and manson smother beseeches the officials with please let him out he can live with me and i can give him a good home but there is one problem. for charles manson prison became his educational system. with incredible timing the year before a charles manson

goes to federal prison the whole concept is punishing the people who are in jail. make the years so hellacious they will never commit crimes again but the recidivist rate is amazing. they decide to save your mailing goes into a federal prison they will do something different that we will have class's to teach the skills to help them function in the outside world. that sounds reasonable. said charles manson in roles in a class featuring the writings of the man who becomes charmian since personal group, a dale carnegie. during the research for this book and went to nashville than this is -- tennessee is

that still kaufmann who was in with manson at this time and i said i keep hearing when people met charlie manson taken a look into their soul and he was friends instantly comedy think he had a mystic power? phil kaufman bigger than any five of us put together with a handlebar moustache with the biggest charlie i have ever seen in my life laughed so hard and screams i have been waiting almost half a goddamn century for someone to ask that question. [laughter] i took a step back. well? he would come out of those still -- dale carnegie class's because now he thought he knew how to become a successful pimple. these lines would help him

get women. later would interviewed leslie at the california institute for women's prison in corona california said what did charles manson and say to the first time he met you? word for word out of chapter seven these are the rules of the dale carnegie class. oh please let the other fellow feel that your idea is his own. number two, the only motivation that any of us have is the desire to be famous and the desire for sex. number three, always dramatize your desires desires, actors do it. singers doing.

you must do it to get attention. manson took it to heart also to study scientology because he was very interested how they could get people to except that they also that doing bad things is part of becoming good. have to do bad things to overcome them then you move up and his desire which made said decided there is no good or there is no life. charlie is ready to go in and gets out of prison sets himself up as attentive los angeles and that is back in jail. this time he is said to a tougher prison in washington state only three people ever tried to escape in one town they never found the body --

bodies of the hitherto there is charlie manson back and present and this time he hears something else comes to the music of the beatles and agreed to lease terms telling everyone he will be more famous. his cousin joann remembers him picking out songs on the piano when he was growing up in poverty and every birthday his grandmother would buy a hit and a new suit to and he always wanted a hat but he was abused. never had anything to hear him tell it. so he has a guitar to start writing his own songs telling everybody he will become bigger than the beatles and tells the prison authorities he will be a songwriter and make his living that way. he gets out it is released

in california and a friend in berkeley invites him up there and is overcome by the student protesters in the black panthers scare the hell out of him. he was so prejudiced in prison he would not talk or a knowledge of black or hispanic prisoners but the blacks muslim movement really impress -- impressed him in prison if they ever organized a course he did not use the term blacks if they get enough blacks they could wipe out of good parts of the white race. he comes to san francisco francisco, this beautiful city just during the summer of love and then to describe what they thought it would be but during that time you have this influx of thousands and thousands of young people disenfranchised with problems of their own

families coming to san francisco coming to a neighborhood that could support a couple thousand people at most then almost 30,000 teenagers showing up every week. overflowing, starting in the streets, a sick, dr. smith stars the free clinic to treat the sick hippies that plays a big part because dr. smith says i knew charlie manson well. when he first gets here, he goes around to golden gate park to panhandle. there according to dr smythe you could have one doesn't cruz p -- preaching media hindu therefore it baptista there an an art is your the eighth he is here and an alien on that side.

manson would stand around listening to these people then come back to the free clinic impact this the best minds on the sick hippies' waiting to be treated that he would go out into the park to use the best of everyone else use his best teachings. that is how he got followers , one at a time. in other words, charles manson is charismatic. he is not a stupid man although he is uneducated he is crafty and cagey. he knows how to take the best of other people and turn it into his own. what you've heard before so to be a rock-and-roll star

musicians at a time in the log cabin on sunset boulevard when wilson cannot get the recording contract and deceive the people don't know is what manson tried to work through. neil young tried to push to the record label and try to cozy up to the mamas and papas people hear the man singh music but they don't think it is special but he knows they are wrong city decides the all the way to get the contract he clearly deserves is to go to the boy wonder producer of top-10 hits at that time named terry melcher at columbia he

made the birds into a powerhouse paul revere and the raiders, and figured all he had to do was audition for vulture to get the contract and there he would go. then things start to go wrong. several ways. then the drug deal goes wrong of motorcycle gang once the money back from the family the broker the deal and a couple of the manson women go to gary's house to get money out of him because he gave them the bad drugs he claims he doesn't have any money but man singh shows up in has a new favorite weapon which was a sword that he acquired from another baker. he leaves and finally calls

manson but at the same time charlie is preaching about this apocalyptic race for intel's the members of the family is in a of bible of the book of revelation where she underlined appropriate passages that what that feels tell us black bird fly, that means something but helter-skelter he tells his followers you have two choices to believe what i am telling you and when the tide is right we go out to the desert but one of two

things of happen. they will either kill you but it is corbett they've made the black people slaves there are sessions every day there are physical beatings for some of the women it's indoctrination but on the other hand, it is a time for colored people were telling us what to do in the lot of americans thought it was inevitable turning it to its own ends the with the human murder they tried to make him look black panthers or try to leave a bloody paw

print and manson figures that the black militants kill the white people that will kick off the regular with on dash revolution of helter-skelter he seems to agree that manson never really expected it would grow as a race war but his followers were getting a little shaky. crews have to constantly come up with new miracles to keep your followers with them and if you can do things for them than they will find somebody else. the followers had just seen charles manson who says he is the second coming of jesus christ fatal miserably auditioning for vulture. bases charlie fail.

in less seat -- leslie said the day he was turned down to for a contract was the day he started to act differently. he did not pretend he was there to save people but he just started to act matt. so he asked to do something. so this does not accomplish that all but instead foolishly tries to drive off on dash drive off but the police sketch jim and fined him with a bloody knife knife, they take him into custody and manson is afraid because he can always turn in manson to save himself. but patricia says but when someone started to talk about the copycat murders

but then the police would have to think it could not be bobby because the killers are still out there and let him go. now with the other fellow thinks the ada is his. that night we know a lot of the conversation because it is repeated in the book and other family members later would discuss it. the jet -- the gist is that manson says you have decided to go out and kill people to get bobby free so then you think they have to be more important fish and rich people that way the media cannot ignore it. everyone knows melcher has moved from his wonderful house but even though they don't know who is living

there now view have to be rich and famous to afford that place. and it takes but a he knows how to drive their in at the middle of the night and that is why the house is chosen. but but then to tell susan and linda and trish go change your clothes and go get your dives. that is not unusual because they expected the black panthers to come anytime. women have no idea what is about to happen they think they will break into a place to steal things. they get in the car and

start driving and get lost. have you been to the site of the murders? a very steep hill signs everywhere be aware of tear. only after watson leads them over the fence and says we will kill everybody inside. and they do it. i will not give you the blow by blow it is pretty awful the tousing skim milk that had not been heard before and it said was waiting for them outside the gate to interrogate them did you make it look bad enough? did you write the words in blood and they explained they did some of that the susan lost her knife and one could not go in and waited at the car and manson was furious tells them to wash

off the blood and jumps into the car and drives back to the house and does rearranging of some things in the only way they knew that happen during the trial murder scene photos are shown in particular what shocked patricia is back in one quarter of the house there was an american flag now it has been taken out and draped traumatically over the couch in front of where sharon tate's body is lying. manson wetback to do rearranging. with the bodies were discovered the police arrested the young caretaker

who was on the ground. this is why it and where he lived he started to stab her on the lawn then does the same to another victory -- a victim the she is not killed over i dunno if she is dead he says i will finisher you go kill whoever is in the back there they turned the corner has a disease bell and stops thing goes back to sarah looked in the window there was nobody there. fed decided didn't kill anybody else.

with the investigative teams don't belong and don't talk to each other brought back to l.a. susan atkins decides to impress prisoners and ties everything together and we get a trial. one last point just before the final resting the mojave desert, mincing gathers the family around and says if he is ever arrested again he will play crazy charlie for as long as it takes to convince everybody he is insane and let him go. the rest of the family if they see him acting like crazy charlie should never believe it. what we have seen since is an ad that has been successfully carried on for ever -- for over 44 years if you talk to the other family

members now they say it is the crazy charlie act he still writes to the of their family members to keep loyal the letter says he wanted to change the world but you let the world change your. he has an organization and is a committed environmentalist if you send a big enough to nation there are charles manson collectors in manson himself gave me permission to reproduce the of prison paintings with helter-skelter. not just me and said in los angeles but bill whole life and times he lived.

history does not happen in a vacuum he is a product of his times of the '60s ian forties and fifties. i see he is held as a captive because he was not put to death he is still here and then to killed the president from the united states he is with us in not going away hoping he puts a little more perspective to understand who and what he really is. you have been very nice paying attention. take care. what ever you do don't listen to people who tell you they can take your life and make it better in all you have to do is follow their demands word for word. thank you for listening.

[applause] >> don't feel any pressure with these questions. >> you said you interviewed me and said? >> i wrote every day over five months he had lost most of visitor privileges for having to sell funds and what his followers described as allied according to authorities to put it toothbrush you into his shank he made clear he did not want me to write this book a and with help nature may e-mail address over to some of his courage followers today get in touch if we have been corresponding cents some are

actually pretty nice people although they are protective then hit later he gave me written permission to use his art in the book so if you are overwhelmed you know, how to get in touch with him. >> you have not met him? >> no. he has written to me but here is what would have happened if i had he had this carefully orchestrated his appearance is any way i think if i got visitation we would get 20 minutes of crazy charlie and the only purpose for me to describe what he looks like now is his picture and his facebook page that has already posted a reply to my book is they want it understood none of mr. manses real friends cooperated.

i guess that is a fair statement if you check the notes it is all cooperated with official documents or for those who are there on the spot. anyone else? shall be saying a manson composed song? these people do not need to suffer like that. >> i had questions about this situation and present or if it has changed? isolated, remained isolated for what contact with other prisoners? >> the first years were tough and no warded wanted him because of their prisoners might attacked him or kill him because they have nothing to lose he was sentenced to death and on death row the first few

years. >> but immediately they hated him because everybody else may get one virtue of letters but he got to 300 per day that infuriated the other prisoners by not even bothering to read them. he would just throw them out pincushion, a man who had survived so many stabbings said why are to read in them he said he had trouble reading. said he organized other prisoners to read it to charlie and could not believe the contents everything from people saying you are going to hell and i am glad to you are misunderstood you spoke the truth now they will kill you for it and any number of young women asking permission to you join the family. he has been a factor weighed

of the prisoners in to this day still you are going to hell or you are a hero or can i join the family? although one prisoner tried to set him on fire but he is in a special holding area. he is a vegetarian, he still has his guitar and likes to play music and above all else loves to work in the hobby shop where he will make little metal spiders he will send out to people that have won his favor it he will always take many but somebody said to him $20 she said i could only get a couple packs of cigarettes so send at least 200.

remember that. >> is a pleasure thank you for coming out if you read the book, there's one more question. >> he comes up for parole every once in awhile is any chance he will get out. >> she will never get out in the there will any of the others that are incarcerated susan died of cancer a couple years ago, leslie just can not for her 20th attempt and was turned down again tested blood is such that no governor will ever that one of those killers out. but i will say that's now that i have spent a lot of time to you think they're really sorry? yes i do. they knew i was writing things that would not

necessarily reflect well they did not know the people of was talking to or they said i would have to hear it for somebody else to be on the seaside they did except they did unforgivable acts and a remorseless and resentful of manson but they should not have done it. in their own ways they are attempting to make amends. leslie just finished her master's degree in philosophy and has organized educational courses for young women prisoners. patricia trains rescue dogs to be guide dogs for the blind. they're hopeful of getting out but i think they know that they won't. i cannot say that please understand but i do think they were honest and they do

say to give some of better pitcher. >> how did you get off death row? >> the course is and declared it was unconstitutional was cruel and unusual punishment so that is why we still have charles manson today. >> you mention bill ayers from that era that was doing domestic bombings and he is known as the unrepentant terrorist now is a professor and has never gone to jail and helped to launch barack obama is a career in his living room and on the government payroll and established citizen at the same era. >> is interesting to talk to folks that were involved in the more it a violent activities. when mark cried first became

famous taking columbia by the protesters he is also one that helped to organize the weatherman but it was a revelation to me i expected him to be very defensive of the things that happened in he said the things we had done were foolish, wrong, he currently lives and in your state of poverty in mexico serving as a teacher for pork indian children feeling he can make up things by not having luxuries'. i did not talk to bill ears as he was not directly involved so i cannot offer an opinion on that. >> could this happen today?