voters want to be u.s. president and what he says is less tendency to intimidate political opponents. mr. shapiro is the author of five books including "primetime propaganda" and is 2013 release, "bullies." post go from your newest book, "bullies," you write president obama would select it at least in part because he was black. it was a positive for many americans believed they needed to elect the first but president to move beyond issues of race once and for all. instead, they got a chance to embrace boley masquerading as a racial unifier. what do you mean? >> guest: president obama came into office on this great wave of american approval, that he was going to unify the country along racial lines. the president has really suggested in multiple ways not only the continuation of american racism, but one of the most serious problems still

facing the country. it manifests in everything from the church sermon trial to the attempt by the obama administration to point as a racist thing as opposed to an attempt to crush coater fraud. the motivation of the american people listened to the president likes to do a frequent basis and pays tremendous dividend. the only sector of the racial population that showed up in larger numbers in the previous election cycle in 2012 as the black community. they showed up in numbers far away the proportion of the population, which is great. unfortunately, a lot of folks showed up because they were convinced by voting for president obama they were sapping a great racer started this one up to the surface against president obama. >> host: when you hear the term post-racial, what does that mean? >> guest: post-racial meets today everyone is free to make the runway and the obstacles

that looks they should be identified and targeted on an individual level. we get into go sounded pretty quickly when we talk about institutional racism and the idea there is this racist conspiracy to keep people down. it's certainly not true for people of my generation and the continued push at the 50th anniversary of martin luther king's i have a dream speech, that the greatest obstacle facing young black folks is white racism. not only is that not true, it's damaging for white folks and black folks. >> host: and "bullies" company of this subchapter, anatomy of racial bullying, march 8th 2012. >> what i was talking about their with racial bullying was the racial bullying at the trade by martin case. that turned pretty quickly into an attempt by the left to pay church than in ms awake i retract down and murdered a black kid is supposed to

actually happen, you have white guy who's really hispanic, the first time in human history anyone said they were white he was hispanic and under disputed circumstances shot trayvon martin and hit his head several times and that turned into a clear-cut emmett till attempt to murder a black person by a white person and that is not what happened at all. it's something the left likes to do a regular basis, to take controversial situations and turn them into a great referendum, whether o.j. simpson are you talking about rodney king or whether you talk about something that wasn't even infused with race. the fbi has been searching for information that he's a racist. they have a money thing. he was picked out, targeted and it was turned into a race case

as opposed to what it was with this tragic circumstance for both folks. obviously more tragic for trayvon martin because it ended up dead. >> host: you highlight the media part of this holy? >> guest: absolutely a. the media portray themselves as object is. i don't have as much of a problem with media folks who don't portray themselves as objective. at least they're honest about it. a lot of folks in the media say their object to is the object of that is the baton to wield against others. cnn try to make it out at church than the men had used a racial slur in his 9-1-1 call. nbc famously edited the 9-1-1 call to make it sound like he was a racist, save george zimmerman track trayvon martin and then said he was black without being prompted, which was not true. they reported her sentiment was

white when in fact he was hispanic. it was all geared up towards racial controversy. preshow controversy purchase for a certain political. if there's a tremendous not of institutional racism, it per trace all areas of american life. if that continues to be the case, if america can do is to be a deeply racist country, what that really is is a call from her federal and state and local intervention into the lives of american to root out the racism. >> host: back to "bullies." feminists want to paper over differences between men and women in favor of a bizarre sort of gender and tragedy. if there will differences between the sexes, women might be men and men might be with him and would destroy any semblance of pure quality. >> guest: equality according to many women on the left, and means to feminists, sameness. i believe women should have the ability to get a job to famous men should. my mom is not only a working

woman. she is business affairs trisha had some companies. my wife is a ucla medical school. i'm not a believer in ignoring the reality of the situation, that men and women are not only differ in terms of, but how they think. every study that's ever been done has shown their brains to not operate in exactly the same way. especially with regard to how the sexes relate with one another is a mistake. >> host: ben shapiro, who are the other bullies to refer to? >> guest: i break it down by topic. they are race bullies, sex bullies, environmentalists bullies. all sorts of bullies in the american life. whatever they mean by bullies is not folks who disagree politically. what they mean is folks who say you are morally inferior if you disagree with them politically.

this is something the left likes to do with frequency. it's not that they disagree on the topic. it's that many on the left think you're a bad person if you disagree with them. it's not because you're honest difference of opinion, not because you bring evidence. it's because you're a nasty cards. this is what is said to piers morgan. this is essentially the argument i was making. the reason i support gun control is if you don't support gun-control you don't care about dead kids in sandy hook. i said to piers morgan, it's a nasty thing to stand on the graves of folks and claim moral superiority. most americans want the same thing. i think we'll want a better life for her children, safer life, a more moral life. well i spiritually higher life. proclaiming folks on the other side don't want those things that i nasty deep down in the corner because they disagree with you as a way to silence the debate and unfortunately it

seems like once i have taken a monopoly on that. >> host: you pray we spent decades at the chart is of the politically correct. reese peters, class warriors, secularists and scaremongering folks. we've tried to be polite. they spit in our faces and blamed us for decreasing the level of our national discourse. it tried to minimize the number of voices in the political arena and we've gone along with it because we pine for a time when americans can share their hopes and brings together rather than quarreling over what separates us. we want e pluribus unum from anyone. they want the opposite from one of many. postcode diversity too many folks on the left is not and we can all share the same goals and aspirations and still have different cultures embrace other cultures to bear. if you don't think like me, you aren't tolerant and diverse and

buzzwords have been used to castigate folks in silence folks and make people feel as though there morally inferior and that should be an except for the american discourse. unfortunately as a response, the only response is to get down in the mud. if you had to sum up why mitt romney lost a 2012 election, look at how that romney pretreat bracco. and that romney pretreat barak obama is it not competent president. he was somebody you to know what to do in the economy. he really didn't know what he was doing as a general matter, but he was a good family man, a good guy, someone who you want to go out to a with. he would say president obama is a good man. if you look at the campaign against that romney however, including people in the obama campaign, mitt romney put dogs on top of his car, had binders

full of women and wanted to pitch while back in that romney specifically fired employees and diverse leaders there widespread die of cancer because they didn't have health insurance. he stashed off money while singing because their version america beautiful. the poll showed those. most americans agree with that romney on a lot of issues. there's one issue on which they disagree. when it came to the exit point was that which can be deeply cares more about people like you, 8020. that would include probably a plurality of republicans. barack obama cared more about people like them. that's because if you spend years castigating somebody has the worst thing is figuring if the choice between income at a press event and second to miscellany, you'll choose the competent president. >> host: ben shapiro, "bullies" was your most recent

book. how did you come up with the idea of writing a book? >> guest: i started off at ucla. i was 16 when i started at ucla. one of the first days of school i picked up the ucla daily bruin. the paper had an editorial comparing the prime minister of israel to do not see. i walked into the office and i could write a response. i turn into a point counterpoint column which eventually turned into a regular column for the ucla daily bruin. when i was 17, which my dad and 50 think it's good enough to be in a regular paper? he said yeah, let me do research. he found the creators syndicate, syndicator for david about, bobby schindler and a bunch of folks on the political aisle. i just sent in my columns with a bio and they didn't even know how old i was. they knew i was young. three weeks later later he got a call saying he wanted to

syndicate my column. at 17 and became the youngest syndicated column in the country. my parents had to send the contract. quickly upon doing that, sort of a go-getter when it comes to pr, so i proceeded to e-mail a bunch of folks for a blurb spirit one person was david limbaugh, rush's brother. david said not only are you talented, if you read a book, i'd be happy to h&r for you. so i've been taking notes in class, but the officer was interested in this. i was writing down dates, times, specific quotations and in about three weeks i wrote the whole book. i wrote brainwashed in three weeks from my notes during the summer between junior and senior year. thomas nelson decided to publish it in halfway through my senior year of college it came out and some professors are not particularly happy. the daily bruin did a huge

spread tried to debunk the book, but it did very well and i stand by it obviously. post could afford to brainwashed was written by david limbaugh. ben shapiro comic and you fall into the trap of being in the incidence is your pet? >> guest: sure. i do cite a number of polls. i don't anthers in a number of question that shows that professors are significantly more to the left and the general population. ucla was in the 2000 election voted almost universally for al gore for his population was split 50/50. universities are very much to the left. stories are more interesting than statistics. the book is not just a compendium of polls. it does have posted back up what i say is evidence. i call a specific professors and name them by name and talk about

things they said in the class. they went inside the classroom. a pre-staged a lot of other books, were it not only experiences are within the classroom but direct quotations. dates, times, what they said. folks want to know. places like ucla, what are my tax dollars fund in? it was an eye-opener for a lot of folks. >> host: and brainwash you write is one of the most severe problems plaguing america's youth. under higher education façade of objectivity, overpowering bias, if i is deeply affects the student body. to find viable solutions to the crisis we must now enter three crucial underlying questions. why are the universities so biased? why do students take professors at this value? and what can we do to stop it? >> guest: let's go one at a time. the first if i recall correctly

is wider university so biased in the first place? one of the reasons is because folks at the university level in the 1960s were largely infiltrated by folks on the new left. the establishment at universities decided not to challenge the student audie was a student body rose up in the 1960s and a lot of the very bad ideas that started earlier ended up taking over the universities in the 1960s. most professors don't have to live in the real world. they don't have to get a job outside the university setting. they live in an echo chamber where they can't distinguish between opinion and fact. everything that disagrees with them becomes un- factual, nonfactual. george w. bush didn't disagree. he was a liar. everyone who disagrees didn't disagree. they were just liars. when i go to the faculty lunch everybody agrees virtually universally. you have to work with professors

there in order to get your doctorate. i guarantee if you are at ucla and would like record that growth thesis on how gun control is completely ineffective, you'll have a lot more trouble than if you write your doctoral thesis on how gun control is supremely effective in the only solution to solving in america. that's the answer to question number one. session number two, why did they have authority? must have spent thousands and thousands of dollars on kids going to the schools. my parents spent a lot of money on me. that means that kind of -- the authority or parents have this now transferred over to this new group of people who are of the older generation typically and will speak to you from a position of knowledge and authority. you go to college to learn. as a student you know the best way to get ana it's going and bonnet back out everything the professor told your class. i got great grades in college, which is how i ended up at harvard law. if you read my bluebook, they're

all done with your student i.d. number. thank god for anonymity. when it came time for the tests, i would only say don't waste a grade. it's not worth getting to see. get an a in the classroom and the degree degree is worth some thing. as far as number three how that changes, the most optimistic solution would be the universities open themselves up. that's not going to happen. when you do but not at do but not at the chamber coming think of people who disagree with you as deniers. you're somebody who denies the power of keynesian economics. you're somebody who denies. the only way to do this to be to exercise the power of the market. eventually parents had to stop sending kids to schools they disagree with on a political level. they have to instead take the money, the $100,000 start a business where your kid or send

your kid to a school that you have you have more in agreement with. alumni have to start realizing the money they so there is not going to football teams. very often it's going to the marxist professor who sits in the front of the class and plays guitar. there's a lot of ways to tackle it. i always prefer market solutions to any other solution. >> host: from "brainwashed," michigan university hold separate for black students. with each ceremony focusing on the customs of that group. ucla is the center for separate graduation ceremonies. the university holds graduation for students commotion a call the lavender graduation. students wear rainbow tassels. there's also graduation for the team has come a graduation for blacks, filipinos have a graduation for asian and pacific islanders.

a graduation for iranians and american indians. the only ones who don't have their own graduation are straight white males, but they will before long if only by process of elimination. >> this is the polarization of american society that carries over from university to president obama's politics. the separation of the american population into what essentially is a bag of marbles. if a cell fabrication that is really done a lot of damage. diversity is associated with folks on campus. there's not a ton of diversity. people hang out with people like them. if you go to the student group or people hang out with people like you. when i was there i hung out folks in class. out of class you to gravitate towards the people who are like you. to use resources to push that is another idea and i swear i

really start to get upset because if we are to learn from one another, if we are to experience life as americans first rather than blacks or jewish or asians, or have to realize were allowed to graduate together. when it comes time for the state to sponsor a graduation at ucla, when awakened in the same room together because after all this is a rite of passage as americans and in our growth as human beings. >> host: ben shapiro, you are 18 years old when you wrote "porn generation." where did this come from? >> guest: i started it when i was 18 years old. it was right after "brainwashed." this book came from a moral program about what i've seen on campus as well as in the culture. as someone has a deep religious believer, i was upset with the kind of culture that's been awash in not only basic immorality, that imagery that

was damaging to young adult. a culture that tries to inculcate perennial adolescent in the american population that makes you feel that avoiding responsibility is almost the responsibility. you have the moral superiority. there's a lot of pressure to participate in culturally approved the good deeds, which generally involve exploiting yourself and invariably incipient something your parents would not want you do and withdrawing money from your parents atm account to do something your parents would not want you to do. that's what i wrote about in "porn generation," which were all false around the -- the liberation of the american population ranging from pop music to movies to magazines to it happens on campus. >> host: you discuss to bill

clinton, monica lewinsky affair. why? >> guest: is a really interesting test case because they were actually studies done in the aftermath about awareness, about sex and it rose dramatically because the president of the united states has talked about every night and someone who participated in oral back in the oval office. that actually had an impact in a full generation of kids. they were being told that oral sex was not actual sex. folks they think are important in the culture. it's true across the board from celebrities to politicians. our politicians have become celebrities. you see that crossover have a real market impact on how young people live their lives. the idea that it does no damage is ridiculous. everything you do in life has some impact. we are not a spent walking around in all of our activities have no impact with sweater. they have a spiritual impact,

bringing impact, lifelong impact. without the things we regret and wish we had done, but the more we have a culture that tries to minimize those things. sometimes it's wrong. throwing it away willy-nilly as an exercise in foolhardiness. >> host: for trail of activity is not simply telling a story or enlightening viewers. it is legitimizing the behavior when increasingly younger teens are those two soft on the big screen there is a cultural resort. >> guest: you have to give permission to do some pain. how is that the teenagers decide suddenly it's okay to participate in certain activities when it wasn't okay before. when you subsidize, you get more. maybe we decided it's okay to subsidize these activities. the most obvious example you can use for something like this is

the impact of the cultures except himself, for extent oconee single motherhood. the culture has largely accepted on what motherhood. you may think it's a good thing or a bad thing. it's the more common. in the black community when the civil rights act was passed, the or 8%. the white community lists in low single digits. that's a tremendous increase in a short period of time largely due to a culture that's decided it's no longer important to regulate your sexually burgess. are almost glorified. the viewpoint was that lisa judy judaism was that sexual activities are wonderful in the boundaries of marriage. one is liberated, all it does is how you out as a person. one of the things i alluded to in some one is that men should not act like six.

unfortunately, the feminist movement came along and noted that man acts like eggs. is that not everyone should act immorally in the name of equality and that's how they really market ramification, especially for young women. anyone who? as though sex affects young men and women the same as owing to the reality of life. >> host: this is our monthly "in depth" program where we invite one offered to come talk about his or her body of work. this month at a soccer ben shapiro. he's the author of five nonfiction books beginning with "brainwashed", 2004. and then "porn generation," how social liberalism is corrupting our future came out the next year. "project president," that her botox on the road to white house came on a 2008. "primetime propaganda: the true hollywood story of how the left took over your tv," 2011. in his most recent book,

"bullies," how the culture of fear and intimidation silence as americans. he will be our guest for the next two and half hours. we welcome your participation as well via phone calls. dial and if you have a question or comment for mr. shapiro. (202)585-3880 for eastern and central time zones. (202)585-3881 for.net pacific. and you can send it e-mail to booktv at times stand up for or you can make a comment on her twitter page. @book tedious or a handle. and finally, facebook.com/booktv at the top or you could make a comment for mr. shapiro. i want to go to "project president." bad hair and botox on the road to the white house. you write, many people believe her style of campaigning is broken. why should john kerry's $1000 haircut decide who holds the

most powerful office on the face of the earth? should politics be about politics? shouldn't policy to the crux of our campaigns and elections? what does it matter if barry goldwater looked kooky glasses or michael dukakis with goofy in a tank? it matters. why? >> guest: this is human nature. one of my bugaboos is people who argue with reality. the fact is people make snap decision on who you wire. within a second and beating you, they decide whether they like you, want to hang out with you. rarely do we change our opinions. it's pretty rare somebody decides after making a snap decision now they want to be your friend if they decide they hate you with enough first moment. this is why candidates -- that's why the democratic party continues to win. the republican party has no clue how image making works. barack obama came down from the sky onto a stage and gave a

speech in front of 60,000 people in john mccain hunched over a podium in front of a lime green screen and during the debate white knuckle that. image numbers when it comes to these things. the white house knows this. this is why people make fun of the president obama. but he said that can occur to hold the camera back in his gut to it teleprompters and six euros, it's easy to mock that. at the same time, any of the six euros. his audience at the folks watching on camera. he was the first candidate to use the iowa caucus -- it teleprompters the iowa caucuses. he was a fully tv produced can be. democrats for a long time have not only had tremendous expect for what hollywood does, but it had a willingness to use nuclear virtually every republican looks like a high school principal. >> host: suits versus news. >> guest: americans do like a

cowboy. george w. bush is a cowboy. he was so terrible. the truth is americans like the rural field. president obama is unique. he's obviously a city guy. but every president before him for a very long time had a branch. this is something that's just an oddity. reagan had a whinge and bush senior had a rich, although he didn't use it much. obviously, clinton had a ranch as well as george w. bush. all these folks had this rural feel, this down-to-earth nitty-gritty get a with and because they or someone who'd experienced rugged life. whereas if you're mitt romney, you come off with someone who know enough to have dinner with. he's a very nice guy and i respect him tremendously. he's a tremendously moral person, but nobody looks at mitt romney on the screen with a hair a brick would bounce off and say

that somebody who's down-to-earth and really dance people. that's what hurt him. his image matched what people thought of him. your image has to convey something about you. bill clinton's image conveyed he was a good old boy from down south who understood the american people. break-in was a great example. he was a hollywood guy originally from illinois and said he's out there chopping wood at the reagan ranch hanna-barbera. that has a market impact on how people see you. i would always recommend to every politician. you may laugh at the image consultation and those guys who shop for you. it's going to matter. when you get on camera, that's all that matters. if you look like you're a dead cat on your head come you're going to lose. >> host: american samoa's understood when they elect president they elect american individuals. we think about height.

we ponder over candidates military images. we worry about youth and inexperience and we worry about hn decrepitude. we wonder about candidate spouses. we ask ourselves whether the candidates are buddies thursdays. it all seems so trivial. it isn't. ben shapiro, back to the point you made remakes that judgments within a minute or so of what we think of that person. >> guest: that's a problem of american politics. it's also how human nature is. more often than not been make good decisions. that's why i'm a believer winston churchill was. the idea that we make a snap decisions is worthless to ignore it. if more candidates have focused, we could get past the image making. if we'll focus on image may change, if a candidate selected

a handsome, well kept, then they can get down to the politics. even george washington can understood this. when george washington walked in, he was the only one who walked manifold military uniform. he was plotting to the first commander-in-chief before there was a commander-in-chief in the country. all of these guys thought about it. the politicians are smart, they will think about it without pinning themselves orange. >> host: in the project president come you read about william henry harrison. >> guest: u.s.a. military leader. and so he the campaign on this platform upon the military leader, tougher than nails. that's what ended up really killing him. he went out of the rain and ended up dying after 40 days. he bought folks a lot of. he would sweep. rallies with people and then

they would realize he's not just some old guy. he someone like us. if it mattered as early as 1840, that only increased in scope once we reached the age of television, where everyone is in your living room all the time. you feel like you want to be friends even worse than 1840 when you probably never saw william henry harrison. >> host: finally, your one book we haven't talked about yet, "primetime propaganda: the true hollywood story of how the left took over your tv." start by telling us about your experience as a screenwriter. >> guest: i started writing this book refers interested in doing screenwriting. this pretty much the last thing i wanted to do. and mention my mom does business affairs on a lot of major tv shows. my dad composes for film and tv, my cousin is mara wilson. the whole family is involved in the hollywood industry. that was something i'd

desperately did not want to do. and more than that, my parents didn't want to do that. when people asked if i could be in a commercial, my dad would say are you crazy, absolutely not. what i did to do the book of this is funny and shows how biases creep out his site called up a bunch of folks in hollywood. i had three books already. i had a syndicated column. i'm writing this book about the most prominent people in television. i name is ben shapiro from los angeles. virtually all of them granted the interview. i imagine a lot of those folks saw a couple things. ben shapiro, from harvard law school lives in los angeles. 99% shocked this person is going to be at the left. i would give interviews, reinforce the impression. i would ask questions from a progressive viewpoint.

instead of asking if they were stacking their shows with liberal propaganda clique or raping person, i would ask if they felt they were infusing enough social justice into their shows. that's how you get an honest answer is for 10 to be a friend of the person or you act as though you on their side. this is what's great about being a partisan journalist. i can do all that. so i went in and did all of that. one of the person i interviewed was leonard goldberg. he was the guy behind charlie's angels and recently dipped into the unknown. he does bluebloods on cbs. a real powerhouse. can i hit it off because he's very pro-israel. so he asked me to go ahead and write up a pilot about harvard law school, which i did. we were done, went through several meetings with mike every other project, eventually got shelved. in the meantime i got an agent

and the agent started getting subscripts had written around town. one day i got a call from the agents in the agent says we have a problem here. he says we got one of your scripts out to one of the producers and the producers -- i can't remember which show, but the producer is one of the major studios called us back. they sell your political viewpoint is that i will never work with some ideas that political viewpoint. mostly i was done by the honesty. at least they weren't lying in saying it was because the writing was that. that is what a lot of folks in hollywood has to encounter. no skin off my nose. i make a living doing other things i always have, probably always will. it shows the extent to which bias in hollywood is it and dealt with on a normal day to day level. people in hollywood like the university. you get jobs or people you know

from the most part. if you're not invited to the parties it's a good shot you won't get a job on the show. if there's one spot left in its either going to go to republican from north hollywood where liberal hispanic women. even close to equal the liberal hispanic women will get the job or they assume they will be more abrasive, even if there's no evidence of that. >> host: ben shapiro, how does the big theory, how did they contribute to liberalist on tv? >> guest: there are wonderful shows. my wife is a huge friends fan. she's an addict to big bang theory. all the shows are great. the way that it contributes as a way much more insidious. people have their value shaped by the people they know. tv creates a set of friends. if you tune in every week to

hang out, unlike your family stops by and bothers you. people who you are going to physically change the channel to prevent hollywood has these people do things that you'd always thought were kind of -- they have people engaged in behavior you what we thought was a particularly appropriate. and then comes the point where you say it like that person. that means i have to approve of the behavior they're exhibiting. what's fascinating is when conservatives say this, they are perjury. if the pilot murphy brown. what do you suppose that dr. brown was legitimizing a rather. later candice bergen said that's exactly what it said. will and grace maybe was the single biggest step forward for in the history, everybody expects that because joe biden is ready. and didn't post it. hollywood has had out. do they do it consciously,

unconsciously? sometimes they do it consciously and they want to put forward a narrative. when i talked to mayor kauffman, she's doing a fundraiser in l.a. when i talk to marta about friend, they had a wedding in season two of the show and i said what prompted that? is that with next-door neighbors and they were lesbian and she was there and we wanted to make the daughter feel good, so we specifically wrote that in politics than mine. she said the raiders term is very much to the left. some of it is more conscious. some of it if unconscious. sometimes leftist minds were together. if you are trying to read a villain in hollywood, you'll be far better off writing a corporate white bill and then you are going to be writing a government bill in from a liberal government or writing an arab terrorist is a villain.

when they ran an apology prompted by chairman peter southerland had to explain to americans that all muslims are not terrorists. while going to go and start burning down mosques, which is an absurdity. this is what hollywood does. it's very clever. it's very fact it. it's why the single best argument for gay marriage. don't you have sympathy for that sub 6%? it's not even an argument about the pros and cons of gay marriage. that this marriage, so you should be okay with what they do. that's what tv is all about. they identify villains, people you hate them even if you like their politics. i think business does a tremendous amount of this country. i hate the villain on law and order as much as any other person if it turns out he's a businessperson murdered someone. so it's insidious. it's clever, highly affect his

ended something that any informed viewer should know about as well as something the right should engage in. the left has perfected the art of storytelling. president obama likes to tell a story. folks on the left to president obama, every political issue is a story. it's not a set of policies. it's not a pro and con argument. he's the good guy, you're the villain. and by doing that, that has a tremendous impact on the voting population because the truth is all american voters vote no. they vote based on what they don't like. just when you watch a movie, you actually sympathize with the based on who you don't like. in "star wars," luke scott walker is the most boring or you've ever watched. that's why they open the movie with darth vader. you have a huge interesting

villain and strangled them in the sink i am then you know even if he's whiny, even if he kisses his sister, he's your hero. so painting the villain is what's very fact goods. they've also used in politics to a tremendous effect, the rate continues to pretend none of this matters. >> host: in "primetime propaganda" you write three words. i love television it is a cicada action for conservatives? >> guest: i think it is. i love television. i watch a lot of it. i was a lost addict. i like homeland. there's great canadian tv show. everyone should pick it up. it's about shakespeare. but yes, conservatives need to get active in the storytelling medium. conservatives need to stop saying look at those crazy hollywood people. out there with jay z and all of

these actors, jamie foxx up there at the washington -- the march on washington. so what effect this, so silly. god uses storytelling. it's like god tells a story. all of the first five books are all a story. god uses stories for christians in the new testament. stories are tremendously affect is. they have emotional connection. they have a lot more connection and paul ran reading his budget plan like an accountant at the table at the briefcase. >> host: ben shapiro is our guest for the next hour, two hours and 15 minutes. (202)585-3880. sorry about that. 585-3881 and the mountain and pacific time zones. the e-mail we were soaked and adina, washington. since the left will not engage in a serious intellectual discussion with the haters in

the media will not call them out on this, how do we point out their bullying tactics to the broader public without sound and like crybabies? >> guest: the important thing is to expose the tactic itself. it's not about attacking people as because that could affect is. it's about making clear what the magic trick is here. arguing character that the policy is a nasty thing. if you say to someone they are racist then you have no evidence, that makes you a nasty person and it's not wrong to say that nasty. that is a necessary thing. the right has to do that on a regular basis. but somebody for the right appears on george stephanopoulos, it would behoove the person to say thank you are having me. before we start, i want to point out your admin at of the left. you betray yourself in the click more room.

we understand you have certain principles. why can't you be honest about what you are? let's have an honest conversation. the problem with george stephanopoulos is that destroys his entire credibility and he would accept the premise. that's something that needs to be done on a regular basis. if you're on the left, admit you're on the left. if you're on the way, its maker on the right. i'm a journalist, but i'm on the right and i'm an opinion journalist and that means they take a certain view of the issues and make clear up front. if you read my stuff, you're going to get a good name on who i am and what i believe. it's important to point that out. when it comes to politics, it's important to say this person is race baiting. it's a nasty tactic. you don't get to attack somebody's character without evidence. that's the definition of being a nasty person. if they call you nasty, they have to show evidence. they can't just be the left calling you a villain because you support voter i.d. for you

oppose affirmative action or because you oppose gay marriage. this is not restricted to the broader political whitaker. romney versus obama and were all watching. it applies at the dinner table, too. i'm jewish. that means my entire extended family is liberal. with emperors, who firmly believes your nasty humid bean if you voted in favor of proposition 80 california. the answer to that is that not a nasty person. how dare you suggest i'm a nasty person. you're an intolerant bigot because you have no evidence that anti-gay. for you to suggest that because i disagree with you in a bad person, that makes you a bad person. once we get the character of the table, we can get down to the hard business of fortune policy that's good for americans. if we are still stuck in this political track, where one side argues character in the other of his policy, character is always

a more effective argument and policy. it almost doesn't matter what policy is. if you're into character, you went right off the bat. until the right understands this and writes back, you have to do that. once you do that, hopefully there'll be mutually mutually assured destruction affect them. characters off the table. let's figure out the best we did do this. may the best argument went. >> host: ben shapiro, what is your connection to enter beit are? gascoyne andrew and i was writing for the daily bruin. i had gotten an e-mail from this guy named andrew. he said i work with matt drudge. i read your column in the ucla newspaper. he lived in westport amoco pick up ucl paper. he's a crazy right-winger running for the liberal paper at ucla? he said went away get together? i said sure. we ended up at a greasy taco

point. i watched andrew chow down on taco salad tattoo that is. the media. we were friends for a solid 10 years after the before he hired me at right guard. but after he hired me, three weeks before he passed away. he called it the longest flirtation and political history because he'd given me advice. i try to help them out and he was a wonderful human being. he was a wonderful human being. he was also a tremendous populist, some underappreciated people. i out on a buddy who spent time with andrew who didn't like andrew. that's because android heart was not political. "bullies" is dedicated to enter because more than anything else he disliked bullies. he was not even a conservative. when it came to social policy he didn't care that much. but akin to fiscal policy, anders interested, but not on a supremely deep level. he wasn't somebody you would fight on to the abc news roundtable and discuss

obamacare. andrew is somebody who understood the type except the last. he understood how they were making arguments about culture and he understood how regular folks think about the is in all the regular joe souther while arguing. think tanks. >> host: did you get your political minutes from your parents? >> guest: yes, i would say absolutely. i was everybody's parents has a tremendous impact. i'm extraordinarily tight with my parents. i'm tight with my dad. he's my best friend outside my wife. my father and i are very, very close. he and my mom were breaking republicans. they voted for vacant place. they voted for clinton in 92 because they didn't like bush selling awacs to the saudi's. then they shifted back to the right side of the aisle after they saw clinton trying to expand government.

clinton was not as pro-israel as he prepared himself to be early on in his campaign. my parents are more conservative. i grew up in a religious household. i became more conservative as time went on i think on myself about topic areas not really in my families wheelhouse, economics. i would say they were more foreign policy and socially conservative and fiscally conservative, although just like everybody else they want economic gurus. they didn't sit around a table reading milton friedman. they brought us a very, very peach ergodic way. my earliest memories are watching the musical 1776. i'm still a huge musical span. dressing up is that the jewish equivalent in that we all dress up as we go to synagogue. used to dress up and fall out

adams regalia. short stockings, the whole deal. i grew up with that patriotic accountability. as i got older, declined me towards being more conservative. >> host: is very political split among orthodox as you say you are? >> guest: absolutely. orthodox jews goes solid 80% republican. we can structure is jews both the opposite. unfortunately most jews are not connected to any tradition. this ethnic judaism. you're born of a jewish mother, therefore you're jewish. norm chomsky is a jews. you care about it like a philosophy. most jews believe in the cultivation of vehicles and going to synagogue once a year

may be in fasting until men on yom kippur and they like being to tittered a minority. a lot of very don't want to be a minority because he gives special status for being a minority. they don't really have much to do with judaism beyond just the cultural aspect of it. the ethnic aspect of judaism and not particularly interested in. when people ask why our jews liberal? it's like asking where so many people born into christian households liberal? a lot of them are not religiously christian. they're not catholic. so ethnic judaism as measured a different measure than belief in judaism. biblical jews, really two indicators. usually keeps vapid and kosher. those are two behavioral indicators. if you do those two things, those people are the folks who will vote at least 75% to 80%

republican for a variety of reasons ranging from what has become an amazing transition for the republican party is the pro-israel party and democratic party, and for showing the the belief in the position to issues of social morality, with the orthodox community is more conservative than the conservative reconstructionist community. and believe judaism is inherently about social justice rather than standards within the talmud and the oratory and in the written torah. >> host: in their written columns on breitbart.com come to talk about the president in syria. what's your take? >> guest: there's really three choices. there's yes, no and the worst option available. president obama has chosen the worst option available. that's really what this is about. the weapons of mass destruction was drawn as a warning to the rain and that's even a warning to the series because 100,000 people have party been killed. i don't know if any people who

are dead care how they were killed. the point of weapons of mass destruction was clearly a warning to iranians. if you go lob a few cruise missiles and break a few things in a sod stays in power, you do nothing else, you'll end up with ukrainians being further emboldened. so that's the worst of both positions. i'm on the no side by the way. on the yes side is the argument against iran. if you really want an argument, to post the rain post uranian regime. you don't fight a proxy worth a country you could take in the heart you. the united states would defeat the military very, very easily, would not be vietnam. there actually is a viable opposition, which is not shopper than the viable opposition to saddam hussein in iraq. so i don't believe we should be fighting a proxy war in syria. on the other side, i don't

understand what exactly the exit strategy is even a forgetting to take out a thought. despite the facts are then sending them guns, if al qaeda takes over number word about chemicals weapons use and terrorists with chemical weapons and al qaeda takes over, al qaeda would be in charge. unless we have an ability to take out all the weapons mass instruction depots in syria or have the willingness to do that, this is a fools errand. >> host: ben shapiro is our guest. good afternoon, patricia. >> caller: good afternoon. thank you for taking my call. i am a mother of five, two of them are in college. i am a republican because that the social policies of life and respect for marriage. i am curious what had been the

response of ben's peers to the books that he's put out there, which i think really naming a state a state. hollywood is manipulating the opinion of the united states through the programming and yes i agree that the democrats really have been able to work the media because they know the physical appeal to people look for which kind of makes me concerned. we sound like were very shallow. >> host: patricia, thank you. >> guest: the response has been pretty mixed. you have religious young people who agree with everything i say another young people who are more libertarian in their construction of these issues. i think what you see overall is the american public into people as well are getting the pro-life at the same time make it more

pro-gay marriage. the issue of marriage would be totally taken out of the realm of the government entirely. i don't always single person who's got married for the tax benefit. i certainly didn't get married because i thought it would look good on my property record. the whole point of getting married is not only the relationship between you and your wife for the production of children and raising of children. unfortunately the right lost the marriage issue and now they are trying to hold on with fingernails on the marriage issue. the only way to win back the marriage issue has been the. folks on the right are warming up to them. i think young people are young. i'm not at the opinion that every young person knows what they're doing, especially until they pay taxes. i've never been a fan of the leftist notion that young people have all the answers. but as in an obama talks about

gun control, my usual answer is i don't understand my 7-year-old should be making policy or have a federal ban on homework. when young people disagree with certain social policies, i'm not sure that's evidence that social policies are bad so much as you people are impressionable, don't have tremendous faith experience and adolescents is less a month or longer. people now 26 have been called kids. the idea that you're a 26 euros adults have enough homes and your parents basement was found in it is then pushed by the left for a long time. the more dependent you are, the less you have to worry about the consequences of your actions. when you hit 13, you're not responsible for your own sins. in america come to you hit 30, you're not responsible for your own taxes. >> host: bayside new york on a duron with author trent three.

>> caller: i would like to ask mr. shapiro, does he think that bill o'reilly and rush limbaugh are bullies? >> guest: that's an interesting question. i think it depends on the circumstance. rash, for all the talk of how we as a bully is responding. you get into a question had the folks in the media pose a cycle of violence. i was a rush was not the first person to start the attacks on the other side. i think rush is brilliant. russia's very good at what he does and is also an entertainer. bill o'reilly is much the same. i think both rush and bill o'reilly are very obvious about the fact they are opinion journalists, folks on the right side of the isle and the right equivalent to the chris mathis is in the al sharpton on msnbc. that's okay. they can all be there. in terms of the bowling and i'm talking about, the name-calling.

not only name-calling, the casting aspersions on some obscure their ignominy and i don't think that rush and bill o'reilly are bullies. if you are specific instances, i'd be happy to talk about those. .. and they have been bullies for many years. i don't know. >> guest: as i said, i really truly believe that character attacks, there has to be a

mutually assured destruction. the rye were to surrender it would continue to lose. losing for specifically that reason. the left started this war and character. the wright refuses to engage, and i do it, too. they are -- the ride is going to lose. they have to understand that character arguments matter, and if they're unwilling to make them we end up with a bunch of assistant principal candidates from local districts in various states around the country as opposed to a cohesive national party with the program. >> host: and ann coulter who has been a guest on this program , smart, informative, and incisive. wise beyond his years without losing their refreshing fearlessness of youth. is she a friend of yours? >> guest: she is. i have not her since i was 18. she is very funny. when i was first year at harvard law school she was on what was then handed the end .

this is right after sandra day o'connor had stepped down from the supreme court and there was a vacancy. aster her she would like, and she said b. a had not crash when from law school yet. >> host: this is my favorite port, simultaneously fascinating and hilarious. >> guest: i would not : a friend, but he is certainly a nice guy. average september couple of reasons. all of my sisters lip project runway, but a project president really is markedly political book, but that was designed to reach out to americans across the aisle and eliminate some truths. >> host: who is the worst presidential candidate ever in your view? >> guest: horace greeley is definitely up there. within the next peered and the huge whiskers. from new york and known as a copperhead. he was a terrible presidential candidate. in the modern era, michael dukakis is obviously a terrible presidential candidate.

john mccain was a horrendous presidential candidate. the top ten of for all presidential candidates, but the century, at less stevenson was a terrible presidential candidate. a lot of bad presidential candidates. the tv era there are more visible. >> host: how did jimmy carter go from boots and 76? >> guest: once you become the establishment things change. lecturing americans on what they should do with their conditioners. you go to being a faceless bureaucrat very quickly, and that's what happened. he was perceived as the honest show. he won the 76 election on the strength of one statement, i'll never lie to you. by the time it hit a 1980 there was clear that even if he never lied to the american people he just was a really get this job. ronald reagan provided a marked

contrast. is with people constantly mess. reagan was just sunshine all the time. if you watch anything, it was far from sunshine. pretty viciously attacking jimmy carter as an incompetent, somebody who was lost in foreign policy and somebody was opening danger to american lives because of what he does turn with the soviet union. he was not afraid to make a tax on jimmy carter. that contrast allowed him to one. >> in 1980. this is something that conservatives really need to take into account. bad economies do not help republicans. this is why fdr was able to win four separate elections wiving the worst economy in american history. that's why the election was closed. the gap is closing. only ended up being a blowout because of afghanistan the iranian hostage crisis.

in this last election cycle, screaming his from the rooftops, all he has to do is just campaign on the bad economy. does look a barack obama and point to him and said, there, that guy is terrible on economics. more people out of work you -- means more people who need unemployment benefits. to the most part they don't hurt, they hope to be one of the things as been plaguing the republican party is lack of an enemy. i mean before the fall of the soviet union the soviet union was the co hearing glue in the republican party. social conservatism : fiscal conservatism, and formed by -- farm policy caucus. once the soviet union broke -- felon there was no essential threat, the started to bicker with each other. the left by contrast, the soviet union was never the overarching threat. it was always from this tyrannical ride that was somehow

going to come in and take over the country. now you see that theme promulgated throughout the bush years, promulgated throughout the reagan years as well, and that's where the left as adapted so easily. now the right is not have its enemy that it can say to the american people, we will protect you from these folks. the left does. it will protect you from the evil dastardly conservatives who want to take away your condoms and remove your ability of vote. the evil right-wingers will take everything from me. hillary clinton was out there pushing the ready. she's picking upon all the same talking points being used by eric holder and barack obama and members of a certain bloc. she picking upon all these names and portraying herself as a crusader on behalf of black rights as though conservatives don't believe in black rights. there's a reason. a more polarized america is the

easier it is for democrats to win. the moment we actually say government has done all it can do, government is eye in the business of trying to ensure equal outcomes. it's in the business of trying to ensure equal opportunities and equal rights. then the left cannot win. they have to have the ever-present threat of the evil american people who live there were not restrained by this vast behemoths that his government would run amok and hurt a lot of folks. >> host: j. in asheville, north carolina. ben shapiro is our guest and book tv. >> caller: yes, mr. shapiro, i would like your views on why you think black leaders, especially in the media never comment on the appalling statistics you quoted, 72 percent illegitimacy, unmarried mothers. it seems to me when a 16-year-old who reads at the fourth grade level has a child,

what chance does a child like that have in a society like ours? i would say very little. i would like your views. thank you. >> guest: i totally agree with that. it is one of the great tragedies of modern american politics, the refusal to load the real problems of every community in the face. the incessant attempts to paint some sort of an outsider as responsible for those problems. the way that manifest in certain segments of the black community is believing that there is this kind of political white racism. it is not white people's fault. and it's not their fault that the economic gap has not been bridged in a better way. it's not their fault of the educational gap has not been bridge and a better way. that's the fault of a lot of folks in politics. white, black, hispanic and every other race of tried to push the notion that you have to stick like isn't failing schools and keep them there.

is the fault of a lot of people who refuse to say that certain behavior is preferable. it is the result of a system that incentivizes bad behavior by giving you extra money if you have a kid out of wedlock as opposed to having a husband and home. if you want to fix the problems we have to rethink the idea that there actions and consequences. with the leftist and is separated the notion of consequence from the actions that preceded the consequences. the best thing that could happen for some many folks would be no more freedom of choice in terms of the schools they attend but more emphasis on traditional family values. charles murray wrote a very good book about how the white community has been buying into these values, including the values of unwed motherhood. pervading all sorts of communities, and it's a tragedy for those children going to put a home without a mother fallen.

>> host: eric levin pose some are facebook page, shapiro tips talking about the left and lack of facts, but all years anecdotes. >> guest: that's a pretty broad criticism. was said the statistics about the unemployment rate, statistics about the unwed motherhood rate, statistics which inhabit aside about gun control, try the -- release really read incessantly orange red and insured and are your position from the left is a can from the right. if i don't know enough about a certain issue, also try instead of it. it's really believe that one of the big problems in american politics is the continuing focus on having have an answer for everything you, there's no ready answer to the prom i was a

liberal for a long time. i return to my conservative values. being in portland, ore., which is a lot like being in california, is all the liberal democrats here. and i tried to get involved with the republicans. they don't even have a chapter. i tried to the go through the republican party to meet people. and i can't find anyone my age to get involved in the conservative cause. >> host: camera, before we have mr. shapiro answer, you said you returned to your roots. you were a liberal. why? >> caller: well, i went to the university of oregon.

very much into what mr. shapiro has talked about. the indoctrination. i follow little bit into that. i lost sight of my republican or conservative values that i was raised with and started becoming more involved and the art scene and met a lot of communists. if -- did not have a strong enough sense of self that i really did not feel like i never even learn about any of those things. when i started to learn about communism and socialism is i was never taught that in school, it was new to me. i need to really learn about it and experience for myself what these liberal values -- i felt like it led me down the wrong path. >> host: we will leave it there and get an answer from ben shapiro.

>> guest: i think a lot of young folks -- i say this a lot. if you're not conservative by age 18 is a good chance you'll be a liberal by age 21. two things people interested in, getting good grades and party ink. it's easier the party in get good grades if you buy into a particular mindset. conservatives tend to offend people because liberalism is the art of being easily offended. i think that a lot of folks ago the college don't want to offend anyone. for cameron and folks like her, if you want to get involved you can certainly e-mail us over at breitbart.com. i'm leading up an effort of the david horowitz freedom center culture travolta will be launching a couple weeks. that will be what i have turned an all-out assault on media bias. we'd be happy have your help. we love it when young people get involved. i'm still on the sunshine side of 30. hopefully we can give more young

people of all because i think it's a mistake for the republican party to continue targeting folks who are over 65. i also think it's a mistake for the republican party to assume that everyone age 18 will immediately the republican because they realize they're never going to get their social security check. >> host: here is an e-mail from an 80-year-old woman please talk more slowly. i am a key, come from a totally opposite viewpoint, but love the way you think. we are more alike than our modern society with a knowledge. have you been accused of talking fast? >> it never stops. everyone in my family. i tried to slow down, valium. unless there is out on this cup, as is of much our condition. of chart a slowdown. >> host: sun city, california. >> caller: hello.

you are brush of fresh air. i wholeheartedly agree about barack obama being the first fully media trained president. in that light, i think he builds and plays cards and such so that people disassociating from his policies. in that regard, you were speaking and syria. i am wondering whether those relate to hillary clinton and benghazi? he is creating a story in the public that these issues are more complicated than people realize, that coming up with decisions is difficult, and therefore they could not have made any other choices. that way he can paint people on the right who want a look at the facts and factual accounting as racists who just want to bring down the first black president. >> guest: i do think there is

truth than that. the idea that president obama has avoided culpability for his own fallen to the foreign policy is eminently true. there is still a lot we don't know, but we also don't know what exactly was going on at the cia and next in benghazi. that is information we still have to find out. and permission is pretty clear, president obama's middle eastern foreign policy is a tremendous failure, not only a failure, but a failure that has enabled the muslim brotherhood to make tremendous inroads, as well as al qaeda in syria. if there's one unifying factor it seems to be that everyone who opposes america's interest is now in power. the muslim brotherhood ended up taking over in egypt. in syria both sides are bad, but al qaeda is associated with the rebels. the islamist powers, the islamist party which took over during the bush demonstration has only become more radical. the iranian law seems to be better entrenched and ever. we also surrendered to the

islamists some are in the process of surrender in afghanistan back to the talent. he's pretty consistent. as far as being so image conscious that he can continue to campaign as an outsider, even as he is president of the united states is a brilliant move. to be the president and never to be held accountable for your own actions with the deal to blame congress and the media and the tea party and everyone else in the world, to be able to blend the people is around you and for the media to sit there and take it, i think we're beginning to see the first glimmers of the media being unhappy with that. it took the obama administration directly assaulting the media by tapping phones for the media to start caring because the media is an institution. folks in the immediate care most want people in the media being hacked. i think that the american people are starting to wake up. what i fear is the cult of personality that has been built up. the purpose will attempt by him to build up that call the

personality. the 2012 democratic national convention was one of the sickest political events i have ever seen. the sense of it was almost like a political loans. people can support president obama. that's fair. the person were shut was, frankly, quite frightening. the democratic donkey was nowhere to be seen. it was the obama symbol that appeared everywhere. obama's face gracing all the t-shirts. a great stature. the personal foul when is the 40 percent of the population, 35 percent of the population will back and no matter what he does. when jimmy camel does these routines vary asks the average rare on the street whether they support all of mitt romney's positions and they say yes. that demonstrates just how little folks think about the stuff which is a serious problem for the continuation of american democracy. some saw it is our obligation as voters to give more informed.

fish. >> host: other closet conservatives working behind the scene? >> guest: absolutely. they are discriminated against on the come out. it is much harder to be a conservative and hollywood to be a gay person. it's not disclose. there is still some latent racism, but there is not a lot of homophobia. there is tremendous anti conservative sentiment, and to religious sentiment also quite prevalent. i remember when i wrote prime-time propaganda, one of the folks i talk to was patricia heaton. side is an unnamed source, talking to me. i said to her, have you ever been discriminated against? for those of you who don't know, she's the star of everybody loves raymond. very talented actors. i said to her, have you ever been discriminated against? she's been working consistently for 17 years.

>> host: conservative. >> guest: conservative. especially on social issues. very pro-life. in fact, people have attacked her specifically for being pro-life and suggesting that her conservatism hadn't used the middle and was somehow perverting the show. it's quite interesting. patty said to me, she did not feel that she had been discriminated against. she called me back a little while later and said i called around town to ask if anyone had heard anything and it turned out the law several specific jobs because i'm pro-life and open the conservative in certain areas. to come back a few days later and said, would you please send me as an unnamed source pigs i would like not to feel the sting of that discrimination against? she ended up coming out later to talk about it. i cited her as an unnamed source in the book. the big-name actors in hollywood and is committed against. although it is easier to be -- once your out, and mr. clinton

would -- countries would? and blues work. low-level geyser is your,. >> host: does your political advocacy heard your appearance in the entertainment? >> guest: not so far. mom is very political. my dad is -- i can say that it hurt him too much. i have largely tried to keep my family separated from my own career. threats and a fairly regular basis that necessitate getting security systems and such. i try to protect my family's privacy as much as i possibly can. politics is a rough business. i accept the risk that comes with that. i don't talk about what my sisters do or they are. >> host: what do you get death threats? >> guest: in the past simply because of my political positions. i remember after it appears more in interview, for example which won by row, the one where i suggested he said on the grave,

there a couple folks the tweeted at home address. people don't like it when a particular aspect and threats of violence based on some of his politics. but because with the territory. you just accept the risk and put a shotgun under your bed. >> host: angeles from chicago. e-mail. the left does not appear to be pleased to be derelict and as the helpful party. question, how can the right change the perception and likability with many of the policies they seem to want to regulate or change i deemed to be helpful to the masses, i.e. food stamps? >> guest: the languages telling because the democratic party is a helpful party. it means that by the fall was the republican party? the anti helpful party, the party that not only does not help people with her people. that's a very dangerous position the republican party needs to

start making the case and a regular basis that not only undemocratic policies not helpful, this said, was, you guys have good intentions. you're just wrong. they just make the case the your evil and a poor people and black people and gay people. that's what you believe these crazy things. if you did not hate those people you would believe what we believe it is time for the republican party and conservatives in general to start recognizing that folks of the left that don't necessarily have been tensions to read if you are upholding the inability of black kids in the lausd system, if you're upholding the inability of blackest and those schools, get a voucher, get out of the situation, if you're the eric cole the department of justice and suing the state of louisiana and the city of new ones because you think that 500 black kids getting vouchers some of the stores the racial composition of a 40,000 students school district and once, not

only are you not helpful, there is a nasty and malicious element to that. at a certain point where i've said is ignorance becomes san. you can climb the your policies don't work and you just made a mistake, but after 40 or 50 years of this when communities remain devastated, add a certain point you have to start wondering about the intentions, willful blindness or maliciousness? in either case republicans need to start arguing about character and stop running away. we need to recast ourselves. there is no way to recast herself. you cannot. you are what other people say about you. the same is true for democrats. it democrats are republicans say about them, they are well intentioned people were not very good at their jobs. if republicans are what democrats say, there are a bunch of warmongering budget want to kill people in harm children. the normal american voter who is more concerned about maile cyrus on stage of the video music awards the latest provision of obamacare regulation, going to go with just a general feel, and

that's how most people vote, based on our feel about this guy, what i think about this guy, spur of the moment decision sometimes there's a post facto justification and sometimes not. >> host: should she be allowed onstage cannot be broadcast on television? >> guest: i think that -- you know, i think that it is time for conservatives to use their market strength against the vna. i have never been a huge fan of government involvement in regulation or. i talked a little bit about the power of local communities to sensor. as different in federal. when it comes to tv ad think that the most obvious target should be the advertisers. there was after glenn beck this way, rush limbaugh, sean handy. they have gone after lou dobbs, multiple people on the right by going after they're advertising base. this is one of the things we're going to be doing intruder volt, this new organization with david

horowitz, looking at instances like the cma and the companies that target viewers there and say to them, you don't understand. there is an actual counter a facts to you putting up the cash so that she can shake your booty on national television like that and bobbing grind. there is an actual a factor in there will be in effect on you in terms of your store. this is what happened in hollywood. of voluntarily imposed code by hollywood. it was not government mandated. it was voluntarily imposed by hollywood because of the catholic legion of the decency. hollywood decided that they understood where the bread was buttered. it's about time for conservatives to use the market power as opposed to ignoring the power of culture to drive views and opinions. >> host: in prime time propaganda you're right about the motion picture -- >> guest: association of america. >> host: right. you also said the people who rate the programs, they don't

tell us to those people are. we have no idea. >> guest: when people rent movies, this a pg-13 or r, we all know who is making that call when you see the why seven on the screen, they used to have it. i think they still have it. the age it is appropriate, that is made by some arbitrary group. a lot of parents, that's more than an awareness point. a parent should be aware of the ratings system is only as good as the body that provides it. moody's is better than the local dogcatcher down the street rating stocks and bonds. it's worth while recognizing that trusting hollywood to police itself is probably not the best way to go about doing things. the left has created a market structure that causes hollywood to center itself on a pretty regular basis. one of the most important groups in hollywood right now is the gay and lesbian alliance against defamation. they prescreen shows because they don't want them initiating boycotts against the network or its sponsors. this is something the right

needs to pick up on. tremendously impressive. and the right, market-based solution is looking to government in many cases which seems to me completely counterproductive. >> host: you have been very patient. you're on book tv on c-span2 with ben shapiro. >> caller: thank you for taking my call. appreciated. the thing i wish to address is the hypocrisy that i see with types like obama. for instance, the admitted drug use and so on. yet they are still maintaining policies that are locking people of. i see this from all -- a lot of the higher-ups'. clinton was involved, at least in the book no one left to lie to he was -- by can't think of a nice name. said he was basically a rapist and someone. this seems to me these higher-ups' get away with crimes that if a normal person did would be locked right up. yet they're not held accountable it goes all the way back to

vietnam and everything else. johnson was never held accountable for the gulf of tonkin incident, both he and mike barone. the other thing i want to know, have you ever heard of a book called reading obama, a harvard professor. this was a very positive spin. thus the reviews. >> host: thank you for calling in. >> guest: i don't know that book. as far as the other question about various politicians getting away with crimes that they themselves condemned, never a big fan of hypocrisy. a general matter. the question to me is not whether to of hypocrisy is not what people think it is. it's okay for me, but it's not like he was in high school, it's of no relevance to his policy on

cocaine use, the same way that if somebody whispering around during was stock in 1969, that's of no relevance to their perspective on teenage -- in you can maintain the belief that what you're doing is wrong in simple at the same time a year doing it. so i don't like the hypocrisy argument. a lot of politicians get away with things that normal folks don't. that is absolutely true. the obama administration, if the obama administration existed in the corporate world there would of been prosecuted under rico multiple times already for the scandals that have been involved in. a lot of presidents, they're taken that to a new level. as far as the criminality of the obama administration, certainly benghazi, fast and furious, the nsa scandal, all of these things speak to the level of executive power pushed by the obama administration.

and never magically exist this and as anyone finds out. the obama administration in my opinion runs very much like a mafia organization. all he has to do is ask somebody to rid him of this meddlesome priest and somehow is gone. >> host: dan and bridgewater, new jersey. >> caller: i. i was raised under communism. invariably my joined young americans for freedom, became an officer. was in the 60's at berkeley during the student uprising. i'm very familiar with the left because of collective reasons. i have to point out to you that your problem is the same as that of the left. you speak the same way by inventing the of the person, attributing motives and interested the ideas and everything.

for example, the president's and the anti-defamation league was saying that christians are anti-semitic because they're jealous of the jews being god's chosen people. he could just say that. that could be his opinion, but he publishes that in the name of an organization because the anti-defamation league. in the same way much as you guys are pushing these images of the other side, exactly the way the communists used to. exactly the same. that's why there is no more meaningful dialogue. been a meaningful dialogue. it only deteriorated because students became attracted to other things. the culture in america understanding complexity, of understanding the in-depth matters. have if he really understood the

need for dialogue. >> host: i think we get the point. >> guest: as far as the idea that bertie was a wellspring, the hell you did. the idea that there was a tremendous debate between the left and right is nonsense. it was taken over by the left in its entirety to the point that governor reagan had to send tanks and. it took over student buildings. they used to would essentially be terrorist methods in order to take over government buildings. the idea that this was some sort of democratic uprising, they like to portray the 1960's as a wellspring of democracy. the truth is it was a wellspring of criminal is an epic. the idea that people in been calling each other names was certainly the case. that's true. jefferson and adams were going at each other tooth and nail. it's nothing new to see just a character attack going on in

america. they have been large and relegated to one side. on not one of these folks of believes that its -- if someone starts a fistfight and somebody else punches back, those two punches are equivalent. responding fire with fire is not the same starting in the first place. my answer is that i didn't start this fight. one of the things that my father always said is never start a fight, but of someone else starts definition. >> host: ben shapiro, author of five books. brainwashed was his first. at universities in doctor that america's youth. generation came down 2005, of social liberalism is corrupting our future, project president, back here in botox on the road to the white house. primetime propaganda, the true hollywood story of how the left took over your tv in 2011. his most recent book came out this year. the left culture of fear and intimidation silences americans. here's a quick.

is a quick look.

>> host: and we are back live with author ben shapiro. >> guest: my fourth grade teacher. and she was really an inspiring teacher. as get to third grade. asked if they're in ninth. and she was the fourth grade teacher his class as get into. she really gave me maybe the

best single piece of less than i have never received. she turned to me one day and said, don't let potential be written on your tombstone. meaning, we know you're smart, talented, can do a lot of things, but it's hard work, drive, determination, turning the potential of something relevant that matters. don't be the prodigy. be somebody does something beyond just being smart in nine acts and are 15 or 18. to me that was something that matter deeply. as a young syndicated columnist, never tried to make a big deal because they always knew the nice thing -- and nice and not nice thing about being 17 is that you will be 17 font. a certain point andrew qaeda being the young prodigy. at a certain point now where cast a stand on its own merits as opposed to the curiosity level. seventeen year olds right shock.

>> host: public and private schools? >> guest: back-and-forth. in public school for elementary from k-4. in l.a. edison elementary, skipping three. at a jewish private school for five and six, back in public schools 78 at walter reed jr. high. i was in the magnet program. >> host: also in l.a. >> guest: also in l.a. skipped ninth grade, school, tenth, 11th, 12th. university of los angeles. and ucla is a college, but as a public-school obviously. >> host: how old were you? >> guest: 16. >> host: what was that like, being that young? >> guest: age never really bothered me too much. most of my friends now are 50. i get along very well with folks of all ages. it's only now that i am about to hit 30 and actually have friends in my own age group. i spent most of my life friendly with people who are significantly older. >> host: harvard law school

right out of ucla? >> guest: straight from one to the other. >> host: you graduated from harvard law. >> guest: i was 23 back in a seven. >> host: and is writing books your main money-making occupation? >> guest: i have several. i get a 530 every morning in the morning radio show in los angeles. it's called the morning answer. a liberal guy on their on close friends within the conservative gile. a guy who holds an intellectual force that is the conservative station. the morning answer. i had -- i have that from six to nine. editor at large for breitbart.com. anti that for most of the rest of the date. i also am just starting up true for volt which i mentioned a couple times. it will come on line next three weeks. when that happens all the splitting time between

breitbart.com and retrieval. both companies are semi working together. take my wife out to dinner. >> host: you to listen news of your wife. >> guest: she's pregnant. she is due january 204th. i'm actually struggling right now the get through my sixth book which should come under the january. the sign date was august 1. the do it is a october 1. that's moving real fast. i want to get out before the baby's born. once the baby is born all bets are off. i know that my life will be changed dramatically. now is the time to work 17 hours a day. when the baby is born and predicting that i will be dealing with the baby 17 hours a day. >> host: what is your next book about? >> guest: the title is yet to be decided. the tentative title is abuse of

power. it is essentially the pieces that i laid out earlier. the obama administration is in many ways a criminal enterprise and is responsible for criminal violations ranging from incitement to riot to the -- well, probably be turned involuntary manslaughter if you're looking at fast and furious or certainly espionage under benghazi. they added states was running guns through the benghazi consulate. the cia and next. and on september 11th the consulate was attacked. september 14th the single largest -- largest shipment of arms bound for cereal and from libya in turkey which was the go-between. there are many theories as to why exactly it was attacked, but there is pretty solid evidence that the guns that were there were being sought by the terrorists who attacked the benghazi consulate. as far as the cover-up, that's

typical obama administration not letting -- know wind to account of the back. we don't want to look as though al qaeda is still a functioning force, and we really don't want anyone to look at a general middle eastern policy. >> host: who is a publisher for your newest book? >> guest: the threshold editions. they're wonderful. i'm glad to be working with them again. i started off with thomas nelson in gregory, back to thomas nelson, harpercollins, manchester. >> host: do you deal you're writing at home? >> guest: yes. in some cases i do research for prime time propaganda. i did a lot of on-site interviews. but i'm very happy to work from home. this is the wave of the future. so by commercial real estate. it will be fabulous. spend time with family, not have

to set an office. is the best thing ever. >> host: to view the pushed back on printemps propaganda? >> guest: not too much. >> host: your sources even. >> guest: not too much. there were kind of best that i did not tell the most conservative up front, but i felt no obligation to do that. the question is the same regardless of who was asking it. your answer should be the same. i try not to very my answers. they're typically has articulated the way that i wanted to be, whether strident or not as certain regardless of who is asking the question. i did not think that was a particularly relevant criticism. i am very meticulous about taping all the interviews i do in getting permission. in fact when i interviewed actually insist that the interviews are taped because i don't want to be misquoted. tape is the best friend. >> host: mr. shapiro, what was harvard law school like?

>> guest: it was wonderful. i really had a good time. the publisher wanted me to write and bashing harvard law book in that children know because not only did i enjoy harvard law, i felt like for the most but there was tremendous openness even though the faculty was very much still left. one of the people who wrote me a recommendation from my first big or worked at a law firm for a year before i quit was the secretary of labor who was so far to the left the she was tossed out by democratic senate. we got along well. very open and a really nice count. very close to the professor they're named richard parker who is a leftist populist. i love talking with folks on the left. i cannot live in l.a. or cambridge otherwise. it's fun for me. usually you can have a good conversation. i can speak highly enough of my time at harvard law. i even had a few runs the future justice taken.

the first time i talked to justice taken, then dean, when the first time i talked to the coming issue was sitting in an introductory dinner in one of these typical runs at harvard law school. everything looks like it's mahogany. all these -- it's ridiculous. she sat down at the table. i said -- she said, is in this a beautiful room? a kind of looks like a haunted mansion before was haunted. she gave me look like they'd kill the kitten and removed on. there were a couple of kind of minor run ins. she tried to fight against the solomon amendment. she tried to throw that off-campus basically. so i made that public. we got into it, but could dean, bad justice. >> host: michael post on our facebook page, please ask mr. shapiro about the status of the lawsuit against the

so-called new site, breitbart.com. >> guest: i don't want to comment on the frigate -- legal reasons. i know that the lawsuit to my belief, is still ongoing. not personally involved. was not involved in the company at that time. i'm happy to talk in terms of my own opinion, but in terms of the legal status and what's going on, i'm going to leave that to the president and ceo the company into the folks at breitbart.com who were involved. >> host: what is your personal opinion? >> guest: the facts are relatively clear. and riposted was a bit of a logger video. his original column talked about how she redeem yourself. the point of his original story was that he is going after the naacp, folks for cheering in the crown and she was talking to her she it was discriminated. he was focused almost completely on the slavers of racism against the tea party. so that was chief of one of the

way she was coming back was to say the naacp has a lot of members who are racist. that is what most of the piece was about. that is my opinion on what happened. >> host: back to your calls. >> caller: hello. you mentioned o'reilly. also on the conservative talk-show host to beat you have amelie and michael savage. with the exception of rush limbaugh, all the others, when they invite callers, the interrupt these people of the remarks. you can't even get the point of the calls. if you're going to invite people want, let them talk. about a month ago somebody wrote in an e-mail which he published and was not on this side. apparently he had no answer. he does not like to be vested. he comes out with this crude remark, you need help. to me that was the ultimate

insult. after that i shut him off and will not listen to o'reilly. , don't know what you think. by the way, just for the record and i will go right off, last thing the shapiro. the author of three novels in print. that's it. he's too much. that's about it. >> host: any response? >> guest: no particular response. the entertainment business is also the entertainment business. as far as that particular call, i did not happen to your the one. of particular host to a caller's definitely differs by host. no one to comment on any one specific host when i don't know the circumstances. when i talk with folks especially we take calls on our show in los angeles when i have the ability to i enjoy engaging in the conversation as much as possible.

>> host: this is a treat from john armstrong. what kind of stories can a conservative film producer tell to respond to the hollywood juggernaut without being preachy ? >> guest: good stories. what the left does is they just let the world view, out of the stories they tell as opposed to trying to force it. the worst they do is when they're making anything involving matt damon. any time that they did very preachy and angry and it turns into a diatribe about politics in america, that's the worst. the stuff that is most effective is when they're just trying to tell a story that happens to involve a bunch of leftist values. avatar. for the right the stuff that is most effective is telling a great story that just happens to be conservative. if you're not watching for your not even knowing the notice of. dark night rises is a fabulous example, probably not even meant

to be a conservative movie, but the entire movie is a diatribe of marxism and the french revolution, including a mock trial scene. it's fantastic. there are folks who said the dark knight was conservative. one of my favorite movies is the lives of others which is not meant to be a particularly conservative movie the talks about the dangers of an overarching government monitoring your every activity. a german movie based on the east german stasi. a wonderful film. the key is the tell a good story and make the politics secondary as opposed to start off with an going to get this point across and here's a story that will build and run this particular point. even when the left does that they are very good at it. when you watch all the family, show that was written like that, an issue show. we're going to do abortion this week, race relations. it does not hold up. it's just not funny. you watch the dick van dyke show and the still funny because it was not trying to be political. even family ties is better at

this than on the family. there are a lot of shows the two would well. tell a good story, entertain people, and you can allow the politics of flow wind in a natural fashion as opposed to trying to ram it through. the problem with conservatives is there like dolphins. this the have that political and a half that is entertainment. when the entertainment side of the brain is on that will go home and watch the same stuff everybody else wants. big bang theory and all these other shows. when you go to a lecture and your talking to conservatives of the dow watch anything the bible stories. it's just not realistic. what it leads to is a situation where we're not producing content that anyone outside the community actually wants to watch. for as much as we may love ronald reagan, that's not how you reach a 21 year old. dark night rises hit with more

people at a new level about the evils of communism than any movie ever produced about ronald reagan. >> host: this e-mail, this is from david. the liberals have taken over the vast majority of the universities. how did that happen? sounded american conservatives allow themselves to be overwhelmed, surrender some much ground to the left? what are they, hopeless? >> guest: i do think that they are incompetent. i don't think they have been helpless. when it comes to the university system, the move toward the left really started in the 1930's when there was tremendous socialist pressure within the university system. fdr drew from his administration heavily. leftism in america, the progressive movement which started early 20th-century and was an import from germany, there's a reason woodrow wilson was a professor. it started off early. it did not start off in the 30's.

you're really started off all the way back during the progressive era. you have to go back a long way to when conservatives really kind of gave it out. at that point progressivism was under the banner of populism, so was not quite the same divide. as far as why have not taken a back to the answer is because folks on the right typically dulce politics is business. this is why when you look of folks on the left -- if you just look objectively at the folks on the democratic plan form in the 2008 campaign when it was an open primary, you're looking at the best and brightest. you're looking at a group of folks highly educated, highly intelligent. barack obama is a very smart guy joe biden for all the talk about him being in the is not. there are a lot of folks on that day is your very bright. he go over to the right side who commander looking in a bunch of folks who are at best second pick.

no one harris what you would call brilliant, someone who you could not wait to vote for, someone who is going to spend their entire life. even in romney did not spend his entire life in politics. most conservatives, the difference between liberals and conservatives can be summed up. if they could be left alone by the government and everyone else there would be happy to do that. in fact, if there was a conservative country. we do our thing you do your thing, the pro-life issue is the one exception. we're happy. you leave us alone. some taxes, come after us, try regulators. conservatives are be happy. liberals would immediately try to tax the conservatives because the government is the business. government is what is right. in an of itself and an errant could. it bright spring from the government. the government gives you rights. your rights come from a vast government that has decided what you're allowed to only and not allowed to do.

as opposed to the john locke you, there are natural allies that the government is instituted to protect. the government gives you rights. the left believes -- the left as a very, self contradictory view of human nature. on the one hand of the government or not there would be murdering each other on the streets and on the other hand humanity is eminently predictable. the right has a clearer view of human nature. it's a bit of we found a few. human beings have the capacity for good and evil. this is what the founders talked about. in the federalist papers it talked about when madison talked-about of men were good no government would be necessary in the men were evil no government could stop people from doing what they want to do anyway. that is a crystal clear view of human nature. unfortunately what has been lost in america is that you. people have been turned by the

left either completely bad or completely good. really unable to shake their nature. almost a biologically determined as to you, the same thing that undergirds the entire framework treating sexual orientation the same way as race or treating sexual behavior the same way as race. if you are engaged in de activity, as the same thing as being black which it absolutely is not. in a democracy no one cares about what is in your head. the talking about behavior. and not talking about what's in your mind. a lot people want a lot of things. it's not a crime. so the difference between left and right comes down to basically that fundamental feeling about what constitutes the human and whether the human is capable of perfection by other humans who have been given this tremendous power by more in the. >> host: next call for ben shapiro, sarah and vermont.

hello. >> caller: high. it's so good to hear you speak. you have been absolutely brilliant mind. and raining you will be our first jewish president. i have two quick questions. one is, do you think there is any possibility that obama will ever be impeached? number two, who do you see as being successful or your choice as a republican candidate in the next election for president? >> guest: as far as obama being increased, he is not going to be. republicans should stop seeing president obama as the root of all evil. he's the culmination of a 100 here growth of a massive government and progressive movement that has slowly taken over the country. and knowledge conservatives lost icky pretending that their one. we didn't. we don't live in a fully capitalistic system. we don't live in a country that is fully socially conservative.

we live in the country is quickly moving to the left. understanding that we understand the uphill battle. centering on president obama. just for a second, if obama were increased as so many conservatives seem to want, imagine if you were gone. joe biden takes over. allison materially different other than he is even less competent? he has exactly the same policy prescriptions, and so this hillary clinton. this is a broader movement. as far as 2016, on the republican side there are a lot of constructive and interesting candid it's. alan west is a very interesting guy, somebody, if image matters he really has an interesting figure. there are some other folks. ..

in the idea that government is just a tool that can be wielded by anybody will eat and republicans are better at managing things, maybe we are better at managing american decline, but so what has government continues to grow at this rate. >> host: ben shapiro, why are you currently reading richard florida's, arrives at the american class? >> guest: it's openly optimistic. i can't tell you whether i agree

with it at the idea of entrepreneurs creating a thin by george gilder's new book, knowledge and power has been about, the idea we incentivize folks to the about of what traditionally has been seen as the job creating industry, the manufacturing and what now is the only job creating industry and move into the production of ideas, the production of creative notion because that's really what changes the world. the true heroes in america -- i don't think it's a road to get a job to support your family. that's what's normal. i do think it is heroic to risk everything you have in order to bring a new product to market that's going to make millions of lives better. in a certain moral calculus, bill gates is much more valuable to humanity than mother teresa. bill gates is responsible for the hiring of millions of people, wealth of millions of people in changing the lives of millions of people.

entrepreneurship has largely been abandoned as a societal good and the deal of entrepreneurship that batters everybody. this is where it really goes wrong. when i talk about trumpeters distraction, it is a term that does not resonate with folks. the truth of capitalism is not about destruction. there may be things that get the straight. that's not what capitalism is. capitalism is the greatest alter mystic experiments on behalf of tolerance and diversity in human history. the recent branch rickey signed jackie robinson was to make money off of them. when it comes to bringing new products to market, this is another distinction. but i would like for everybody at a certain point you have an iphone 12. were not going to get to the keeper manning to create the iphone 12 in all the people who compete with those people painted beautiful thing about capitalism as opposed to socialism is its inherently alter mystic.

if i give you something that you want, i will start. socialism is that the idea that if you don't give me some and i want, i will serve you. its inherently selfish. the idea that socialism is somehow of great moral good is just a lie. capitalism is the demand of view, of the individual. everybody is responsible for making that guys like better. it forces you at the point of starvation to create for you and your family and make something that are not just for you and your family, that the other person. volunteerism and often known as the root of freedom. sure tierney is a socialistic state we seem to the closer and closer to each and every day. postcode dr. bob garfield, could you comment to which he studied at ucla list of major quakes rated you choose law school? >> guest: i studied political

science. i decided i was impractical and went to an even less practical nature, political science. as a political science major for three out of the four years i recite ucla. the reason was because the classes were easy and not sure i finished political science and decided that i was going to go to law school. the reason is because really my mom worked in business affairs and should always thought about going to law school. she suggested i go and take the lsat. i went ahead, took it, did really well, applied and got into harvard law. if you get into harvard law, you don't say no. the day before i went i was saying i never want to be a lawyer. i was right. i did not know practicing law, but it was a wonderful experience to change the way i thought in a lot of ways. it was a broadening experience. i really enjoyed it. it's something i'm certainly glad that i did. >> host: victor in manhattan beach, california.

good morning to you. >> caller: good morning. on major holidays, google changes their page to commemorate historical figures or holidays. this past easter you criticize google for changing their logo commemorating cesar chavez, jesus christ and how offensive that was it was a slap in the face to christians. my question is, what is a nice jewish boy like you writing these articles like this and also do you think something like this demonstrates how kind of polarizing because a lot of people on the right is being exclusively and how that came about. >> guest: as far as me being a nice jewish boy, i was there that jesus was also a nice jewish boy. as far as my belief about christianity, i've always thought judeo-christian religion is the wellspring of morality in this country. as the society becomes our secular, freedom for jews will

go alongside freedom for christians. there's already a bill that would strip nonprofit status to many religious youth group that discriminates on the basis of religion, orientation or gender. i believe when we discard religion and religious values, including christian values because it's a largely christian country, we are shooting ourselves in the foot. both the second half? >> host: google come easter and people denouncing. >> guest: again, i appreciate when folks use market power trigger point as opposed to censorship. making folks aware of google's political stance is something that is well worth while and allows us to make informed decisions the same way if there's a website the left doesn't like a make informed decisions whether to use it or

not. postcode to large corporations benefit from government regulation? >> guest: absolutely. there's a reason google has tons of lobbyists on the hill. i don't think we live in a capitalist system. i think that the government picks winners and losers and large parts based on whether those folks are friendly to them. when the president of the united states goes to certain companies and makes promises based on how many people they hire. his new business plan is to give you a tax cut a few higher x,y and z. that is the government running business. the government says will keep more of your money. the government putting strains on my, why isn't the government want to run the human resources department? if you hide in a good friend joe, i will help you by giving you a tax cut. this is why you've seen the obama administration like cylinder, nec continued growth in the amount of correspondence between major corporations, whether it's facebook and google for general electric and the obama administration. this is not new.

thomas edison way back when during the roosevelt administration, thomas edison suggested he be granted in the economics aren't structure the entire u.s. economy. this is one of the great misconceptions, the idea that american businesses are inherently capitalistic. so if the government is a big grab bag of cash, business will go in and go after the grab bag of cash because their motive is profit margin for their stockholders. businesses can be on the wrong side of this. they were supposed to meet. crony capitalism, which makes no sense. a march on the folks. host government should fear is this book, "brainwashed," most christians and jews feel there is no implicit conflict between science and religion. science and religion bolster one

another. the clearer it becomes that there must be a divine plan or. professors don't think so. science and religion are completely at odds with one another. god is not a master designer. >> guest: that is the essential point of a lot of folks on the left. that's a devastating idea for a basic running and functioning of western civilization. i truly believe that science and religion are not in conflict. there parts of the bible that are metaphorical. god created both that they believe he did, they should not be in conflict. as far as the impact of the belief that in biological determinism and lack of free will, the best proof of religion is the idea that i get can make a decision about how i will lead my life. that is proof that i exist on a plane will biology. there's folks on the left.

people in the military secular left believe if you have a giant computer somewhere and input information about the universe and environmental biology and physics that he would end up -- you can tell when i'll scratch my nose because everything is biologically determined. there's been -- morality goes out the window. it should be no culpability for action because you're not responsible. the concept of responsibility is entirely foreign to the idea of biological determinism. even if you think free will is the legal fiction, most people -- the vast majority who think it's a legal fiction and creation of your unconscious brain creates their consciousness, even those folks will add a certain point start speaking a language of responsibility because it's built-in. we understand errantly human needs are responsible for their own actions. you can ask questions about whether god is just or whether everything that happens in life is done for a reason.

those are legit questions in a minor glitches believe, god wants us to assess questions is is proof you can leave in him. judaism is a question and religion. what is tremendously damaging for individuals come the society at large and frankly is not true is the idea in a universe that god exists in the same way as the universe with the god, both morally and physically. >> host: bill beatty treat them, please frustrated for what his thought are about the iris coming to arrest a tea party. is it routine a regulatory issue? >> guest: is clearly political. fdr had a program to target isn't nice. jfk had a special division was designated to target people politically. don't be fooled when folks say they're a few liberal groups also targeted. jfk did the same thing. 75% worry and in the threw in another 25% that didn't look

like he was targeting political enemies. this has been true for a very long time. bill clinton used it as a proxy. the income tax is a ridiculous thing. what is the government know more about me than i do? if we have a national sales tax, many other types of tags could be implemented that would not involve the government having to force me to voluntarily proclaim everything i spent this year. that is not a mess. assuming good intentions on the part of the bureaucrats in the irs, and they are bureaucrats like everybody else. there is no grade wise all-knowing, all-powerful being. it's people who could work at the dmv or the irs. they make the same mistakes. they're politically motivated and they take your money. you're not taking their money. they're taking yours. >> host: if people were going to buy one of your books, which would you recommend? >> guest: it depends what mood you're in. if you want to know my fall

break down on how the left thinks and how to do with that, i recommend "bullies." in terms of which book is the best research, i would say transcendent. i believe it's one of the best books ever written on television because it's really in depth. if he just won a beach book, i would recommend "project president." it's like asking me to choose my not yet worn -- which it may not yet born children i like the best. some of them are more difficult to write than others for sure. "porn generation" it was difficult to write because i am not a fan of schmidt as the yiddish word. he was spiritually dirtying to have to wade through that material to read it, but i thought it was a mission important enough that i needed to write the book. that was the most difficult to write non-spiritual, moral level. >> host: bilking tweets in,

conservatism leads you among, but that does not apply to women, and non-christians, does that? >> guest: as far as women, ice and he's talking about abortion. men -- conservatives are not interested in having their hands on a woman's body, in terms of abortion. that's when we don't care about a woman's stomach. we also don't care about her leg. what we care about is actually what's inside your. we care about the child grow in there. the abortion debate is simple. you believe if life were you believe it's not. if you don't believe that you can do whatever you want. if you believe it's alive, it is fundamentally immoral and evil to kill it. in the same way was fundamentally immoral and able to live next-door to a slave owner in 1947 and not do anything about it. that is nothing to do with a woman's right to choose. she has rights to choose is far too vague.

it's about a woman's right to kill something growing inside her. pessimistic a specific come back to the polls shift. there are many choices that came before the point where you are now killing what's inside of you. as far as gays, i said earlier i'm an advocate advocate of the president getting out of the marriage entirely. i've never been an advocate for regulation of what gays do in their own personal life. the most nonsensical position on the right that i found is a gays shouldn't be allowed to get married and adopt. it makes no sense. if you're concerned about gays raising children, that's legit. if you're concerned about two dudes living together, you're an. non-christians being regulated, precisely the opposite. it is not christians who are going to secularists and insisting they say they're christian weddings.

if the supreme court in new mexico that is ordering a christian photographer be forced to photograph a same-sex marriage in new mexico, where gay marriage is illegal. that is where the left is too radical. we are watching in real-time the death of freedom of religion in this country. that's not coming from the right. the idea that non-christians are persecuted is precisely the reverse. it is christians under a soul. >> host: the next call, curt, indianapolis. >> caller: hi, good afternoon, gentlemen. i would like to think c-span carline mr. shapiro to be so uninterrupted and how exciting it is for people his age and is a major disasters. it's exciting to hear his viewpoint and opinion. my question, with me and his parents being a tv generation, hottest pc his generation and how he's come to voice his

opinion over the internet getting across to his generation and how does my generation learned to use that medium to become aware of what his generation is the name? >> guest: what we're watching is the fragmentation of the old media. there's so many more options for information. it's truly amazing to watch. you have to carefully monitor what it is they're looking. my parents used to show us old movies. we're big fans of old movies. i've seen every film between 1933 now. i grew up on the van dyke show in the instrument the waltons in their very clear about that. do not go see what they want to see if their friends house. it is imperative that parents teach values. it's a charging time as

information becomes more plentiful and available, it's a challenging time to raise kids. i'm looking forward to it with arcade. but it means you have to be more careful. number twocoming out to to inculcate values. when i sit inculcate, i don't mean back of the hand values. you have to teach your kids fly. my parents were wonderful about this. my parents never said it was wrong for me to ask a question. if they didn't have the answer, they try to find someone who did have the answer. they cheated me from a serious human and operator my teenage years is irrational, functioning human being. when i proved i could earn -- when i proved a desert responsibility, they handed me responsibility. that had to be earned. in terms of older people involved in technology can make it on the internet. it's a wonderful place. learn about it. it's an incredible place for

exchange of ideas and transfers of information that could not be a more exciting time and he is in history to be part of a political movement that now you're able to go to the local bus and you can do for less than a hundred thousand dollars. all the gatekeepers are going away in a tremendous free flow of information could not be more excited about it. that's a mix excited even as government grows. eventually the american people recognize but we ran the difficulties we face. only when we access the information they need to see. >> host: brandes and clarkson, washington. our guest is ben shapiro. we have about 40 minutes left in this week's program. please go ahead. >> caller: i agree with about everything you're saying, but you really lose me when you talk about iran is going to be a nuclear terror threat when israel has 300 they do nothing but tear as the, they've lived there for hundreds of years

concealing their homes, killing people. how do you defend that? that's all i have to say. >> guest: as far as the israel post them in conflict, that different than the israel iran conflict. nobody wants to acknowledge that it's absolutely the truth. the sad facts are there far than me palestinians. from egypt, yasir arafat was an egyptian. from jordan, jordan is 70% palestinian. philistine eastern compostela jordan. as far as why iran would be a good source -- i'm not encouraging the united states take unilateral military action right now. i'm encouraging the united states to israel to do so covertly. israel is threatened by a nuke and that is the iranian regime did not behave and rational fashion. as much as the ussr was a nasty,

horrible genocidal regime, they behaved in relatively rational fashion. there is not with a bunch of folks a safe israel post that tehran. another fact or is israel on the ability to exist is based on israel's nuclear superiority. the other superiority that their 6 million jews and 400 million arabs, all of whom seek to destroy -- not all of them, a vast majority seek to destroy the state of israel. the moment iran iran threatened the one hand over a new to a terrorist group like hezbollah, which can shoot rocket or to the muslim brotherhood in the south, which can shoot rockets into the south. the moment that happens, israel is forced into a proxy war and a conventional proxy were over a long period of time is of tremendous difference damage to the state of israel. israel is one strategic advantage is in their increasing

capacity with regard to missile defense, which is going to eventually be their best option. it's not a particularly good option. not only because of israel, but they have the history of attacking folks abroad, including y nuss heiress to europe. >> host: were 310. conservatives need to learn that arguing for smaller government doesn't not to be an ugly racist exercise that targets them. >> guest: i agree. the only people who argue it targeting the poor are the bullies in my book. i'm still at a loss to explain how lower taxes is a racist bullying, evil thing that targets the poor. i promise you nobody on the right side hates the poor. the only people who apparently hate the poor are the people that want to keep them in permanent misery by suggesting food stamps are the solution to poverty. economic growth is the solution to poverty.

better things are the solution to poverty. there's a reason the poor now lives that are connected at the beginning of the 20th century. better than middle-class people dead. better than many rich people lived at the beginning of the 20th century. not because they're rich, but all the products they can buy are so much better. what makes your life better is that somebody chopping off a check in your mailbox. it's the ability to pick up all the things you need. all the things all the things they used to cost a fortune now cost pennies. the future is better stuff for less money. the future is not taken from money from some and giving it to others. >> host: are you interested in office? >> guest: maybe at some point. i live in california so that's tough. i wouldn't be uninterested in political office, but i feel the culture has to be shifted before i'd want to run for office. i want to see the right begin to

make inroads not only with regard to hollywood, but with regard to the media and other institutions of the left that have been predominantly run by folks address to conservative interests for a very long time. one of the things conservatives need to make nice, there is no white knight -- a shining knight on a white horse. there's no reagan that will fix everything because reagan didn't fix everything. reagan came in and fixed everything. even if a temporary reverse is not enough, there needs to be a ground shift to decide what it wants to be. right now they decide what it wants to be. the country apparently wants to be a semi-failing european state. unless the country decides it wants to live the life of entrepreneurship and freedom and liberty and relive the excitement of creativity. we get back to the excitement of creativity as opposed to the younger moral superiority of grabbing someone else's wallet,

then we are going to be in a heckuva lot of trouble. there's 47%. i don't believe that. a huge number of americans. i had my federally subsidized student loans. everyone has something to get from the government. we have to fundamentally shift and we think of american life in this country. maybe the federally subsidized student loans goes away. in return what they get is a better education, cheaper products, if in return when i get is a better standard of living in a more exciting world quite make my own opportunities that are not constrained by what the government says they cannot cannot do come unless the world i want to live in. do people have enough faith to succeed and make an exciting and beautiful passion to create a new world for themselves or do they want a world bounded on all sides by a government supposed to ensure equal outcomes. >> host: fort myers, florida. please go ahead with your question for author ben shapiro.

>> caller: greetings, mr. shapiro. do you believe that the best weapon against an enemy is another enemy? msas, what we see in egypt, syria, iraq, afghanistan, yemen, pakistan is our government inadvertently creating chaos whereby our enemies are fighting other enemies in lieu of fighting christian and jews. once again, do you believe that weapons against an enemy is another enemy? >> guest: i don't think it's a good description. christians are being murdered by members of the muslim brotherhood and targeted by al qaeda forces in syria. as far as what u.s. foreign policy should look like, i come to what may be considered a cynical conclusion. there is no utopia in the middle

east. there is no point at which we impose a solution, democracy flourishes, everybody learns to live together and we all go out and have a fro you know don't and that's what's going to happen. what happens in the middle east is a continuing set of day-to-day operation that enhances stability or don't enhance stability and american interests. hopefully regions will develop their own form of democracy and recognize liberalism and democracy are some thing worth having. it's, i don't think it's hypocritical for us to support people we don't think agree with all the values of america and american interests. the best hope is the continued driving of the united states in order for the united states to thrive, sometimes their interests being served are not great for some people and that's an unfortunate reality. i wish everybody agreed that

freedom of speech and liberty actually mattered. unfortunately they don't, so that's the only hope for people who wish to be free. >> host: for those viewers tuning in late, this is an e-mail from peter. could you explain more about your use of the term bullies, your definition seems to be people who declare their opposition as ones who want to wreck the environment, make cuts to help and services and are inherently racist. your callers claimed the right is also bullies because they cut off people talking and are harsh and responding to them. >> guest: that's a pretty good distinction, which is being harsh in response is not the same as calling someone a nasty human bean. my definition of a political role he is opposed to you as a human bean because they disagree with what you're saying. once you do that, just like any

other bully, the only way to stop mr. punch. police will not be stopped by rational conversation. it's counterproductive to rational conversation because it goes something like this. you're the bully come you call me a racist. it's funny you should say that. i'm really not a racist, but i can see why you would say that. i've handed you the baton because what i've said this is actually rational free to call me a racist. i disagree with you, but it's rational. what i really think this is possible under racist. it's not possible under racist. show me the evidence, show me what i've said this racist. the intimidation tactic really separates american, destroys cohesion that america needs. what that type tickets is trying to put on people he sent to unearned guilt, dissent that you didn't do anything wrong, but you're still guilty. oprah winfrey goes on television and since you never have to say

the word or have ill will towards but folks. if not the definition of racism? i don't feel guilty about being a racist because i'm not a racist and i've never done anything. you know who should go till two? actual races. let's go target than the most are without bias. why don't we find actual instances of racism and go out in fix those as opposed to racism is just in the air in a few drink the wrong cup of water -- that's not how life works. they got largely back to the left. we reached a point because of the 1960s and the civil rights movement, it glorious point that the worst thing you can be taught in american life is a racist. if you are a racist country are excised from american society is you should be a mouse you we should've been. that's a wonderful thing. let's recognize progress that's been made and focus on routing of messages and individuals, to

expand and then let's focus on the real problems that the communities because voter i.d. is not in the top 10 list. it's not at the top hundred list of what's plaguing the black community right now. >> host: ben shapiro's sixth book comes out in 2014. the topic? >> guest: the topic is the obama administration and what i feel is the likening of criminal conspiracy. it works very much that people will think the mafia exist or didn't. the head of the mafia doesn't have to give every direct order. all that has to happen is that your people in place, but the message down. if you want to rise in the system, if you want to be a made man, all you have to do is something that i imply and eventually the car gets committed. it just happens to benefit her organization. everything from the irs, nsa. everything from benghazi to the fast and furious scandal. something that seems to benefit

the obama administration benefits the higher-ups. it's always just low-level guys. they go into their time and they come out. by the way, and all the scandals, nobody has lost their job. and i minimize their pay and benefits. even those who have resigned are also receiving their full pension that they would do when they decided to resign. no one has gone to jail over fast and furious or benghazi. the employees under investigation were reinstated by john kerry just this month. there's something very funny going on and it's about time people recognized it because it's important. part of it is the obama administration. part of it when you have a government that is big and powerful there's always the danger the person who takes control of those lovers the machinery of power can use it to their advantage. the right feels this way about barack obama. if you don't like how obama run the government, don't make the

government quite so they. >> host: ben shapiro come if people want to get a hold of you, do the website? >> guest: my twitter list@n. shapiro. if you want to e-mail me, the best way is through my website, then chairman shapiro.com. i'm also available through breitbart.com. the senate offered up a living culture through vote.com. it will be a pretty hard-nosed babbling attempt to create consequences, especially folks in the media who lie about their objectivity or participate in activities the market should know about. advertisers should understand that hopefully from now on there will be ramifications to spending your dollars for the american people don't like it. >> host: marie c. wilson, i would like to hear ben's position on work within and

citizens for self-governance. their call for a convention of states. >> guest: i like mark a lot. as far as this constitutional amendments, i haven't read his book yet. i know about some of them and i agree wholeheartedly with some of them. the first constitutional convention, it's a great idea. the chances of it happening in the near future are slim but hopefully we can as a movement to do that because the constitution thanks to the of it by the supreme court now has structural defects that need correcting. the original constitution had a significantly less structural than the current but that's because the original constitution that would've sent as opposed to what the supreme court says it says. >> host: you can see the mark within blurred primetime propaganda, a must buy and a must read. just let you know that mr. le pen will be again show in 2014. atlantic city, new jersey, good

afternoon. >> caller: hi, thank you for taking my call. it's nice to speak to you, mr. shapiro. i'll tell you, you are so, so encouraging as young as you are. i am a black woman, a christian conservative. i've been a republican since i was 18. i am now 44 and i'm growing very, very discouraged. i think that the only thing that will change was going on now in this country is education. there's such a lack of education, you know, with the blacks in this country as far as them understanding how the republicans have foraged the success of black people in this country. and then you have the liberals who are totally erased the jim crow history, the anti-civil

rights history with this southern strategy propaganda, you know. and basically, i was wondering, the first thing that communists do is they removed god from society. and then when they do that, society becomes a moral because there's absolutely no reason to have morals. you can accept everything. it reminds me of something that gk chesterton said. the man whose virtue is tolerant is a man of no convictions. when we have no convictions and people don't want to be educated because they don't want their conviction -- they don't want their belief to be saddled in any way or curved in any way and they don't want history. libertarians now seen forefathers were secularists,

which we know is revisionist history. even if you want education, is very, very difficult to find it anywhere. >> host: would allow mr. shapiro to respond in just a second. he said he's been a black woman republican since age 18. >> guest: since i was legally able to though. >> host: what is it been like to be an african-american republican for so long? >> guest: you know, i also went to art school. i attended the university of the arts in philadelphia and it was very, very difficult. not for me because i'm a strong person and i believe in my convictions and i know why i believe what i believe. they are always coming up against hate, your lack, yuri woman, you're an artist, you're now reminded. but i understand my history. i understand the history of my country. i learned a long time ago that

the liberal agenda was no friend of mine. you know, when liberals tell you, we are your friend and they plant planned parenthood in our communities and they were on our communities and to crown, you cannot look at this country and see money, republicans running black cities, the inner cities and the crime is worse in the abortion rate is higher and there's more poverty. you know, when are people going to understand the liberal agenda isn't working, the liberals aren't their friends. >> guest: as far as education, i completely agree. the public school system dominate at the left is very discouraging. it's why it's so important for parents to really take the education of their own children so serious way. as far as the black community and feelings about the republican party, italy by

default republicans are racist because they've been told that for a long time. a lot of republicans don't speak well and they ignore the black community for a while. underlying the vast entire momentum shift as the family dies, ever needs a friend said the government becomes your friend. the government is a terrible friend. it likes to borrow money and never repay it. it's typically to fund sent to you shouldn't be doing in the first place. and i'm a friend because you often tell you to get help. the government is not your friend. as people courtesy that, that will help a lot. the education system remains a huge problem. the myth that black folks have the ability -- when we talk about impoverished inner-city areas like south los angeles or new orleans or chicago, when black folks have the ability to take their kids and put them in a school succeeding, rather than

the school, then we are going to start seeing a tremendous shift in the mindset of a lot of the kids who are now experiencing poverty for the first time, not just in terms of economics, but provided at the public school system, which is in many ways discriminatory. postcode dn and toledo, ohio. these go ahead with your question or comment for ben shapiro. >> guest: thank you. i have one quick question. i see you agree in the federalist papers. >> host: , why do you ask that question? why is that important to you? >> guest: i do a crossword puzzle and idol of gold pocket dictionary and i noticed george washington 10 husband asked next to his name. i tried to look up the

definition. it seems like getting another definition to figure it out. i've never heard about it before. >> guest: the basic definition of federalism that all rights not given to the federal government are under the constitution and their extraordinarily limited. the right to make war in the right to create terrorists disrupt limited powers. this is a great constitutional law. is it a contract of a state? the north had been breaking the constitution are not returning freed slaves to the south. the states are going to withdraw. does john collins case. what we see now is the federal government has completely overshadowed its boundaries. there are no boundaries anymore.

the federal government can regulate how much toilet water you use and going in the backyard. he can regulate anything and everything in your life, which of course makes the state adjunct and the state not as important as they once were. and it's the laboratories of democracy, which were supposed to predominate has largely been pushed to the side. thank god there are still states differentiations. if we were on the californiacome in a javascript at all. the power of federalism, the power of local government is the power that remains necessary and more necessary than others. the federal government is large and bureaucratic or there can be no way the government can decide what's best for your kid. federalism is premised on the idea that your local community -- those are the people best at deciding what's good for you and your life that only the very big issue should be decided by not only neighbors, but people who live

3000 miles away and people you've never doubt that the people you don't know anything about. we need to restore the basic idea of autonomy to the states. the counterargument has always been a did that last time there was slavery. understood in osterman is evil. it doesn't cut the basis rationale for states rights. it doesn't say slavery is a deeply in oral thing that has to be abolished and it took hundreds of thousands of ways to do it. >> host: 15 minutes in this months edition of "in depth." ben shapiro, author of five books, the six coming out in january. >> caller: hi, thank you for taking my call. just a quick question for mr. shapiro. what is your opinion of how eriksson's revelations have impacted the obama foreign-policy? >> guest: edward snowden's revelation is very interesting because edward snowden, the nsa

leaker -- edward snowden -- i'm not clear whether he's a traitor or a hero. this is one of the things we have to get away from is a society. the information he would build good the american public to know? who is very good, especially given the fact that a couple months ago, president obama declared the war on terror over. you don't need to be looking at my wife. so the rationale for what president obama has been doing on the nsa level has been undermined by president obama's own rhetoric. i think the level of scrutiny is significantly higher than even contemplated by folks who backed the patriot act. certainly if i am by what novak did the patriot act. this is too much. it's too intrusive and i do feel it's piloted the basic liberties. that doesn't speak to whether edward snowden could be prosecuted. it does speak to the fact that

government is now so large that it knows everything about you from what you purchased on amazon to how much money you earn. even they are not really, where the government knows nothing about you. if that doesn't frighten people into recognizing our government is just too bad i'm not sure exactly what will. >> host: eric taking her to eat then there are that of christian/conservative writers i know. what is your best recommendation of how to break into hollywood? by the way, he treats that@pastor craig. >> guest: of the best way to break into hollywood is to keep it on the down low. i recommend this to folks in hollywood trying to break in, which is never say that you've met me. instead, go to hollywood and want to have power companies do to your your advantage. but as liberal university.

use it as an opportunity to educate yourself and said if i may presume the friedman on the other side and write exactly what the teacher wants to make it to credential and use it to your advantage. a harvard stamp is a wonderful thing to have even though i disagree with everything pretty much all of my professors ever said. understand reality. i said earlier i don't like it when people were with reality. don't war with the reality. don't expect folks will change because they want you to change. instead, operate within the system or go find funding outside the hollywood system and build your own hollywood system or help user market power to take down the current hollywood system. what is not an option is to walk into a production office in hollywood, take out your republican party local card, slap it on the desk and sam republican and i'm here to pray for your show because that ain't going to work well. >> host: ben shapiro, is there

to sanity and misrepresenting yourself? are you misrepresent yourself for not explaining who you are quite >> guest: and with machiavelli this one. when it comes to an industry dominated for a long time by certain folks, sometimes you need to omit certain details from your resume. by the way, this is an experience i had when i was at harvard law school. i graduated laude, top 30% of my class. when i graduated, i had the worst interview record of anyone in my class. the reason for that was not because my resume wasn't good. at three published books, a national bestseller, a syndicated column and i've been on tv all the time. the problem was i would walk into the office and get it liberal part or in part without. they saw the title someone. i walked in wearing my job because any sense before i sit

down, he starts with, i really believe that religious people, conservative people have a floridian here at sex. this is at a loss for interview. they said that's the stupidest thing i've ever heard in my life. so i actually went to the harvard law school office career and i said to them, what should i do about this? my record is terrible here. they said why didn't she write your books off your resume. would you deal with discrimination, your two choices. one is to take the system from the outside and the other is to gain power in the system from the inside. ect partiers do this right now. those are the only two options. when it comes to establish hollywood, you want to make a $30,000 residual check. don't openly say you're

conservative and tell your a show runner. at that point, do whatever you want. >> host: i wanted that law school interview last? >> guest: that was a 15 minute interview. i had situations where it would go to an interview with someone with political column at rit knotted their pocket and start reading things i had written. what that has to do with my ability to read a transactional real estate contract is beyond me, but apparently made a huge difference to them. >> host: randy come in minneapolis, good afternoon. >> caller: in other words, mr. shapiro is saying it's okay to leave out information and not tell the truth to people? i find that kind of problematic. i'm an atheist and i find that the christian beliefs -- it's fine if people believe in their christian values. but not to impose upon us. you are saying it okay to sneak in and get a job and line your

resume? is a part of your christian belief? thank you very much. >> guest: number one i'm not christian. as far as making an end opposing beliefs, the left opposes it's believed through hollywood. if you can't do the job, you'll get fired whether you're liberal or conservative. getting your foot in the door may require you to omit your activism for the pro-life movement. when it comes to folks imposing their beliefs, right now what i'm watching as the militant secular atheist movement opposes it that it believes, where we go next to the fallout assault on the church system of states attempting to draw nonprofit status from churches based on liberals not agree with what churches do. pat to me is a fundamental violation of what is not only to be american, but the first amendment health. host domain, what is your position on immigration reform? to you later need to slow the

growth of immigration? >> guest: i don't believe any to slow the growth of total immigration. my great grand parents got here in the early 20th century in the extended family was all murdered in the holocaust. i am a believer in immigration. but we have right now is honestly the easiest issue in the world to shut the border, figure out what to do with the people here. the only reason they shut the border is to have the welfare state. we could have free commerce. we wouldn't be in the tax dollar and taking benefit. you can either have their welfare states with restrictive immigration or a non-welfare state but the free flow of immigration. if we have the welfare state, which realistically speaking we do, we have to figure out how to shut the border so were not incentivizing low education people who don't speak english to cross the border and we

actually start enforcing visa is because 40% of the folks here they go you have overstayed their visas we gave in the first place. and then we figure out what to do with the folks here. in my view, whether that's the pathway to citizenship for legalization, it doesn't become the media and tell the secure. until the border is secure, it's an open invitation to come in. is there a red stamp on your legal immigration passport? if you come over today versus 10 years ago, we can't tell that. so the fact is everyone sort of agreed on this coming and that he was going to be border security and immigration reform. then barack obama and democrats in the senate figures the new deal. border security, immigration reform and no border security and they used that as the web in. this is an example of republicans not understanding how the left operates. they wanted to run on immigration reform. the left wanted to look in 2014 and state and, look at these

evil raping her spirit look at these evil right-wingers. the reason they stop immigration reform is because they hate you. not because they are rational. the reason he did miss because he wants the issue to divide people. so we could come to an agreement on this. everybody left, right, center basically agrees on the basic proposition i'm standing right now as you can consider free flow of immigration in a welfare system. that's not politically advantageous. my biggest problem is that both parties. the republican party and the one hand says the pro-immigration you want to live the border open say we need our free labor, which is a kind of nasty way of turning through people who don't have high education. it's about we need them to pay social security. they said this. we need to come latino immigrants to pay social security for the way people.

on the left to have people who want to live the border up in because their potential democratic voters. >> host: blake, washington d.c. e-mail. i am rootedness verbatim so you can take the structure of the sentence and work with that. why do you think it's necessary to compartmentalize everything as left or right? >> guest: i don't think it's necessary to compartmentalize, but everybody knows what i'm saying when i say it. there is this general objection to folks using the binary terminology of left tray. an essay for example, what is libertarian meet the liberal? is issues where there more complexity. when you talk about certain issues, each much easier for short insight to separate that from my and his conservatives and the republican party versus democrats and the liberal movement. it's a useful distinction. i am never a fan to say that we

can't use basic terminology because the reality is too complex. words are generally too simplistic a reality in general. at a certain level you have to simplify. >> host: monique, hi, monique. >> guest: >> caller: good afternoon. thank you for talking about issues ranging from immigration to political environment, business and other issues. my question is, how can a black american women whose conservative and christian be able to make a difference impacting both political and social life when every time you speak your viewpoint you get attacked by others who feel that because you are a black woman you shouldn't hold certain views, like you shouldn't be a democrat or you shouldn't be pro-choice or you should be okay

for food stamps or government programs, which i did not choose to be a conservative because of my own upbringing. as time went on and i educate myself in there and invade, does you plan became a part of who i am. it just happens that republicans share their viewpoints. but i get attacked all the time when i discuss my viewpoints on social issues, government business, environmental issues and i feel that i'm not allowed to be who i am. i have to conform to what they feel like i should be, which is a democrat woman who believes in the viewpoints of the democrat party. >> host: what do you do a bloomington? >> caller: i'm a student. i'm a senior. i'm about to graduate in the next few months. >> host: where did you grow up? >> guest: i grew up in new york from the caribbean and i grew up in florida.

so my viewpoints having been shaped by my environment is mostly democratic viewpoints. this is who i am based on my education, my experience in life. i feel that i get attacked because of the viewpoints ahold. >> host: thank you for that. that's a second self identified african-american woman conservative. >> guest: first of all, congratulations. this is the life that we live. there is no way to avoid it. the one thing i've learned from andrew pipe or peer-to-peer was used to say what was the fire, meaning dean who you are as offensive to some people. and it shouldn't be, but you can't do anything to change it. folks are going to agree with you. that's okay. when they attack you for being who you are, it's not about for you to attack them and say you're a nasty person as opposed to disagree with me on my political opinions.

i'm glad you're thinking about this issue is and i would encourage you not to be cowed into silence by folks who think that she went to think a certain way. >> host: ben shapiro list number one on his favorite books william shakespeare. all e-mail sent, which are favorite shakespeare plays and wide? >> guest: hamlet is my favorite pair the tremendous complexity and brilliant use of language obviously. but the dangling between heaven and hell evidence throughout the play from hamlet is wonderful. it's also intricately plotted. everyone underestimates shakespeare's plots. we are is an incredible play. mainly because it struggles -- it's a religious play that it struggles of the great question of all religious believers, which is how can a university be so cruel god is so kind and how

can such nasty to happen in such a universe away with this godly justice. that's a question well worth asking. maybe the only question worth asking. it asks in a beautiful way that feels uplifting at the end because you get the feeling that while justice is not done, they're sort of cosmic completeness to the entire play. i've recently become a friend of courier manes. it's a fascinating take on democracy. it's the only shakespeare play where the public is actually sort of the bill in a not so fascinating way to structure a play. obviously he betrays, that is the right touristy route? shakespeare had such complex moral questions with such a view of humanity that all of his tragedies, more than his, all of

his tragedies say we can reach for the stars come even when we are bounded by human constraint and that is something i think that the root of both by politics and personal life. >> host: ben shapiro has been our guest on "in depth." thank you. >> guest: thank you so much. ..r moderator, tina campt. >> thank you. [applause] >> good afternoon, everyone. it is my pleasure to welcome you to our third panel of the day. the title is "50 years