two bystanders. literally that scarpa killed himself. he was no doubt was leaking information to him that lead to some of the death which is why the brooklyn da indicted him. capcci and robins wrote about it. they knew that linda was going a star witness. linda allegedly lies and they abruptly end the trial. talk about a reverse of fortunate. "moll tape freeze g.-man." and you know what he did that night? they start -- celebrated at sparks steak house. heavens given the note of irony. listen to what the judge writes back. this is his decision dismissing the case. here's what he said. what sun denial in the face of the men answer posed by organized crime the fbi was willing to make their own deal with a devil. they gave scarpa criminal

immunity in return for the information true and false he willingly supplied. not only did the fbi shield scarpa from prosecution on and the crimes they actively -- to participate in crimes under their direction. a thug like scarpa would be employed by the federal government is a shocking demonstration of the government's unacceptable willingness to employ criminallalty to fight crime. you can watch this and other programs onlike at booktv.org. >> up nexted to wilkins this is about a half an hour. thank you for coming out this evening. it's my pleasure. such a treat. any time come to the neck of the wood. stoarnl get to participate this evening with ted and todd this

evening. i want to start ted with montana. you have other properties. you are all over the world. you have four here in montana. what brought you out here and made you fall in love with this country? >> it's just a beautiful place. the people are beautiful, and the weather is great. it's just -- it's the closest thing to heaven i have found on this earth. [applause] i like the rocky mountain front. >> that's a huge eastman on the blind d and other properties. what pressed you to preserve that much land? >> temporary insanity. [laughter] no, i loved it and i didn't want to see it developed except for wildlife and nation.

>> what about the -- obviously you have been at the forefront of returning that creature to our native land here. what makes you fall in lack of love with the bison and dot kind of work so that animals can flourished? >> that all happened pretty much at the same time. when i was a little boy i was fascinated by nature, obviously. and i read every book in the library that i could get my hands on on all aspect of the nature, butterflyers. and the bison intrigued me. it was the largest land animal in north america. it was brought to the edge of extinction by our foolishness. i wanted to see if i could help bring it back, and when i started thirty years ago started collecting it and breeding

bison, there were 30,000 bison in north america, which all there was in the world. and now there are 500,000. [applause] and of those 500,000 in all, 55,000 are on our ranches. so we have 10% of all the bison in the world. and 10% of all the pair i are dogs. >> as beautiful as they are. anybody who had the sliders earlier knows how good they are. >> tell us about your relationship. you have known ted for a long time. tell us how it started and the lifespan how the book came ?eabt. >> the book took seven years to write. our conversation goes back more than twenty, and i was on an assignment for a new york magazine. ted recently arrived in montana

in cowboy country, and he booted all the cattle off, and raised the steer -- stir on a.m. radio. [laughter] and that other networking we won't mention tonight. i arrived throughout and ted strolled to the room. he was a swagger, and at the top of his game. i was a little bit intimidated not quite as intimidated. i'm not intimidated now, but i was then. [laughter] he looked me over and told me i had twenty minutes for an interview i thought would last an hour. after sizing me up he decided to give me more time. the conversation continued to play out. i was particularly intrigued at the time with what he wanted to accomplish in the west. he has an incrediblability --

ability to look to the future. he had done it with media to -- to win in the america cup. he did it with the braves as well. it's been interesting in watching it play out with nature. >> tell us a little bit more just about the book. about the concept. "call me ted "came out was a huge success. we learned a lot about ted. tell us what different story you wanted to tackle with "last stand: ted turner's quest to save a troubled planet"? >> there have been several books that have come out. ted wrote his memoir "call me ted" it dealt primarily with his business career. it mentioned some aspects in "last stand: ted turner's quest to save a troubled planet." it didn't die -- dive very deep in to them. when i started it, i not only wanted to interview ted and get at his motivation. i interviewed a number of people he has collaborated with over the years, gorbachev, kofi

aman. >> tell us about the environment -- environmentalists that influenced you as mentors, as friends, people you worked with and people you looked up to. the environmentalists that meant something to you in your life that you have worked -- like -- others. >> jack and jane good al, i think, she's a fancy young lady. those are two that -- obviously [inaudible] katherine's son is very, very leadership position in this

area. >> there's a story you have told me. it was about you going down the amazon, and i think things were looking desolate in the environmental world, and he shared a conversation with you. do you remember that? >> sure. tell me the story. >> i was a little discouraged, and back when reagan was president. [laughter] he had just called russia the evil empire, and that's not the way you get -- it's not the way you make friends. i'm -- i'm having a hard time keeping from getting discouraged, you know, to getting rid of nuclear weapons and having peace in the world. and they said, ted, even if we knew for sure we were going lose, which we don't, what else

but men of good conscious do but keep fighting until the very end? that was twenty five years ago, i remember what the captain said. i would stay to myself. i've been discouraged. >> that was a moment in time when ted was able to us is us is sustains. >> he picked up the mantle from him. he said go for it try to make a difference with your impact, then fifteen years later, he was ailing and ted and him were together watching an area of the film gettysburg at the national theater. it was him who begun to despair. everyone gathered and watched ted's interaction. it was ted who lifted him up

when he was down. he thought that it was time to give up. in fact john michelle told me a story and he actually cried telling it of the difference that ted turner had made and the fact that ted became -- ted at one point was the student of the master. he in turn had become a master, and i think it's a story of transference, really. >> i want to read -- we have asked if anybody wanted to e-mail questions, and [inaudible] but love to read the name. it was a question we received. post polls consistently reveal a strong majority montana support conservation efforts. why do you think they e lengt

politicians in the state legislature who seem to oppose effort to protect the environment? [laughter] [applause] >> well, we have that all over the united, and to all over the world a lot of people run for office don't agree with the majority. they are running because they are angry about something, and they don't like this what is being proposed. in a free country your allowed to do that. we have to be sure that we have enough electable candidates that we win the elections and get our program adopted rather than theirs. >> you have demonstrated, yes, money helps but the will, the determination, the perseverance that you have demonstrated.

what would you -- what would you say to kids or to people who sometimes feel so frustrated when they look at the political process and feels like it's moving too slowly? what do you say to individuals who are trying to make a dpirches on their own. >> keep working at it. don't give up and in the end the group that wins is going to be the one that perseveres the best. >> i'm going broad it. in the last couple of days, i think here is a great example. president obama in last several days announced he's too -- his two leading initiative in his sect term are getting rid of nuclear weapon and global climate change. i think he is, dare i say following in his footsteps. we saw them talk about the nuclear threat initiative. tell us a little bit now that we're looking at the president once again taking a leading

roll. what that organization does. the nuclear threat initiative. tell us what it does. he tries to slay public opinion in favorite of the nuclear disarmament. you have former secretaries of state. you have amazing personnel. >> right. the very best leadership he could henry kissinger, bill perry, himself and i remember.

we are closer to getting nuclear weapons than we probably ever have been. [applause] i would like to think so anyway. [laughter] >> through the foundation, so many initiatives centered around women, education, health, so many aspects why the focus -- this is a reterritorial question -- rhetorical question, ladies, why the focus on women? maybe we shouldn't ask that question right now. >> they look better on tv than men. no [laughter] no, it's high time we got women more involved in all of the leadership activities, and we are doing that. like here in the united states there are more women in college now than there are men. and more women in graduate school.

.. [applause] >> anchors just as catching on. the dolly lama the other day said he thought it would be absolutely appropriate that his successor was a female. getting very anxious.

he worked so much and so much of what he done that applies to almost any endeavor. but what if when you talk about the principle of the triple bottom line, what is that? >> i think that in this century is perhaps the template for this notion of eco-capitalism, which is doing business that is no harm. and the triple bottom line is based, think of it as preschools. one school has profit as a motivation of course if conservation is going to exist on private land that needs to pay for both. another leg is caring for the environment come into the no harm to the environment and where possible, restoring harmed landscapes. ted has been perhaps the biggest model that in the country. on the third aspect of the human one and that it takes good care

of your employees. you pay them a decent, livable wage and channel is much but is backing to local communities from which you're deriving your profits. ted in the west and all of its ranches in the west and where ever he is buried, he's channeled lancet dollars commerce back and it trickles them through the local communities. enacted, what he's done has turned them into stakeholders are conservation. so it's a concept that a lot of people talk about, but it's one that is put into practice. >> dad, tell us about the entire family's involvement. i mean, for the audience at the impressive that each one of his five children and grandchildren, the act dvds, the involvement, the causes. tell causes. telefax and third their work is as well. >> well, i've tried to encourage

them to educate yourselves about the environment and helping out and philanthropy and get them interested as youngsters and hopefully will continue with it when they become adults. >> what talk about the adults. laura, talk about what laura does. >> failed to fill in topic and environmental -- none of them have ever been in rehab [laughter] i think that's pretty amazing. anyway, i'm really proud of them. >> you've got all of the kid. zero, running of the operations, jimmy doing environmental films. each one of the children is making a major contribution.

>> thankfully. >> people may not know that you are a champ and orator and prep school. there is a verse that you have quoted to me on many occasions, but is very applicable to inspire for this cause from her ratio set the bridge. could you give us a little bit? [laughter] >> this is macauley's line to encourage from her ratio set the bridge. it goes like this. then stepped forward her ratio, the captain of a gate. he said whoever men and women born to come up sooner they and how can mandate better than facing fearful for the temples of his father's and the ashes of this god. bursar council without the speed you may, i betsy beside me will hold the fulham play.

and now spent a thousand, they will be staffed by three. know who will stand in either hand and guard the bridge with me? [cheers and applause] >> there are so many cause is worthy of attention. but what worries you the most? with you lose the most sleep about right now? >> the greatest danger we face as nuclear weapons and the sooner we get rid of them before we make a mistake when something goes wrong, the better. second after that its protection of the environment, particularly getting a handle on global climate change and stop the burning fossil fuel. [applause]

ted, what do you hope the book accomplishes? >> makes a lot of money. [laughter] >> i'm just joking. >> beyond royalties, >> i want to make a lot of honey. we are partners. 50/50. >> we hope people enjoy it. >> is a of a partner to have, too. you know, ted wrote a forward for the book and i think he says that vast that senior citizens who think that they can retire from the role of citizenship, that we carry on throughout our lives. one thing that is asked a lot is where, the harrison and fire

him? and so, we need young people to step up. we live in a time when people are cynical, when our kids are told that they really aren't making a difference. i hope that the book inspires the young to get involved in the old to reengage. again, but its example, the notion of eco-capitalism, he dismisses this notion that ecology and economy can't coexist. he says it's a false dichotomy. i think i is correct this, he's done not moreover. what he's doing at the international charities is truly pathfinding with the nuclear threat initiative come of the u.n. foundation. he's become a nature capitalism wishing to help eradicate polio appeared that will be done within a few years. and so, you could go down a long, long laundry list that has

been involved with. without getting too cornball, i think we are sitting here among a giant. [applause] >> no question. >> taught, what surprised you the most and working with ted and getting to know him? that you can share with us? >> we've had a lot of great conversation. i think what surprised me, a click and go. we were in new mexico and i was trying to interview ted follett lives on the quail wagon and we have a different kind of interview that we carry on when ted has an audience. he knows how to play towards the crowd.

that no publicly there is this very self reflect a person manner who doesn't -- you know, it's ironic that he created the modern media age and it's ironic that this notion of him exists. but behind the scenes, i just watch and channel all this information and he's a voracious reader. so what surprised me is how well read and how important he is. >> it's extraordinary to watch you on the properties and i'd say no place more so than the flying deep. gorbachev in the film was talking about how emotional you are and how is it spending time out here, even just sitting on the porch, being surrounded by this kind of magnificent?

how is it being able to live with montana such a big part of your life? >> it's nice. [laughter] i like it. i just like looking at it. [laughter] i love the mountains, spanish peaks. i could look at them for weeks. >> you can't get out on the horse with him. pulling my weight. if there's a piece of trash anywhere in the prop b., you're up. >> noxious weeds. >> you really are just such a steward in such a guardian. there so many areas do you have literally dominated all over the world. do you have a sense of what you want your legacy to be? >> it will be whatever it out to be. i'm not worried about it. i'm just worried about getting

the job done. >> everyday i see you wearing about the issues. what can i do now? was sort of drives you on a day-to-day basis now? >> i want to do the best job that i can. >> there are so many areas that you are still involved. do you feel like much of your focus now is on the environmental work? >> a lot of it is because i pretty well done about as much as i can do on the iron meant. i was then manner and i'm not. i'm going to work on getting rid of nuclear weapons and trying to get us to switch away from fossil euros before today. >> tell us before we wrap a. there is a new group that you have been putting together with jeffrey sachs.

tell everyone a little bit about the global sustainability effort. >> well, jeffrey sachs is really doing that. i'm trying to give him some encouragement. but basically, i am good friends with whom they can and a year or two ago he came on to the program on television wherever he was interviewed. he said we don't have an energy plan. he said over and over again, 70 years and no energy plan for this country. i thought she is, we have a plan for cnn. if you don't have a plan, how do you ever get anything done? so i thought about it and i thought we don't have an energy plan. we don't have a plan for anything. we don't have a plan for population. in our lifetime, the city that are 75 and here, the population has gone from 2 billion people to 7.5 billion people.

that is unsustainable. obviously. we need a plan for everything. so i suggested to jeffrey that he do it. [laughter] i'm a little too tired to take on a project. he thought about it and said he would. he's working on it. so sometime during the next year, there will be a plan for humanity. it's going to be endorsed by the united nations. in fact, it's going to be their plan because jeffrey works for the u.n. anyway, we are going to do is take a shot at putting a plan together that would include the overfishing. it would include finding. it would include water. it would include population. and he's even going to have a chapter in their on poverty and health care. the health care project is not

just health care in the united states. he's putting together a global health plan. he's also putting together a global education plan. i mean, we might just get everything straightened out. we can do anything we want to if we just know what it is we want to do. we have incredible capabilities. if i can do this, if i can go from no bias into three bison to 55,000 bison in 20 years, we can do anything. [applause] >> i'm going to steal one of my favorite lines. i've seen him get this at the most part teaches groups. we've got to stop doing the things and start doing the smart things. so i got to get your final thought.

[laughter] >> again, someone like ted comes around very rare in our lives. he follows in the line of the great tycoons at the turn of the last century, the carnegie is too brought literacy and rockefeller to set aside. ted is in this incredible class. you know, it's kind of amazing that he's adopted bozeman, montana, our hometown as his backyard. it is a tough act to follow. one thing i'd like to ask you to do, which you do a reprise, what you did when you were inducted into the international hall of fame click >> i also want to remind people to eat at ted's montana grill.

[laughter] [applause] i don't get the chance very often. what you want me to do? sing a song? >> ted was in fact didn't do the bison hall of fame. the president did not rushmore were behind him and he let them in a song and i want him to do that. >> renate chim appear. -- we need jim up here. there we go. [applause] >> i think you know that one backwards and forward. >> after the first 10, everybody join in. ♪ gives me a home where the buffalo roam. ♪ where the deer and antelope play. ♪ were seldom is heard a discouraging word

♪ and the skies are not cloudy all day. ♪ home on the range. brigadier in the antelope play. ♪ where seldom is heard, a discouraging word ♪ and the skies are not cloudy all day. ♪ how often at night, when the heavens are bright, with the light of the glittering stars. ♪ as i stood there amazed, and i asked as i gazed, if their glory exceeds that at all. ♪ home, home on the range. ♪ where the deer antelope play. ♪ where seldom is heard, a discouraging word, ♪ and the skies are not cloudy all day is

♪ [applause] >> thank you very much. thank you, todd. thank you, ted. [cheers and applause] >> malcolm gladwell, what is your new book about? >> guest: it is called "david and goliath: underdogs, misfits and the art of battling giants." and it's about underdogs. i got really interested in telling stories of people who seem weak and powerless and yet go on to accomplish great things.

that was a puzzle of how they manage to do that i thought was worthy of the book. >> host: back in 09 come you got a piece for "the new yorker," "david and goliath." i'll let you tell the story. is that when your interest started? >> guest: yeah, i wrote a story. although nothing in the article i wrote for "the new yorker" made its way into the book. it is what got me thinking about it. it was an article i read about a guy, started with a guy who was an indian immigrant living in silicon valley tries to coach his daughter's basketball team and merrill 12, 13. there are the doctors of software engineering in silicon valley and they can't pass, shoot, dribble, they can't do anything that resembles basketball. he decides what they'll do is play the maniacal defense. but the full-court press, 100% of every game. that proved so devastating

effect that they cooperate to the national championship. the idea was that he responded to a weakness. by adapting. by adapting in a way that proved to be pretty devastating and also by breaking the rules because people don't expect 12 little girls to play the full-court press. in fact, it's a little bit on 14 because the skill level is such that he played the press, no one can bring the ball up the court. so it's a really interesting example of someone who chose to rather than remain passive in the face of some kind of weakness, to adapt. that data tatian is what really this book is about. what are the strategies people use to respond to their own shortcomings? >> host: what is and example used in the book? >> guest: i'm really interested in talking about why you're so many successful launch

partners dyslexic? detainer illogical problem. it's a dataset. a part of your brain is not working properly. it's nothing you would wish on a child and yet in one case after another, many of the most famous entrepreneurs we now have lived their whole lives with this devastating disorder. and if you talk to them, we'll tell you that they succeeded not in spite of this disorder, but because of it, that it taught them something about how to do what the world that proved to be incredibly valuable in your career. there's something very beautiful about that and very moving about those kinds of stories. and i tell a couple of them. it's a beautiful illustration of this paradox i'm interested in describing, which is very often we learn more from our disadvantage is that we do from our damages.

>> host: malcolm gladwell, is there any connection between "david and goliath," the tipping point, outliers? >> guest: i wish there were. i wish there were some narrative that if you own one, you have to own them all. but i don't think there is. they simply happen to be what i'm interested in at the time. i suppose they are all answers to the question, why does the world surprise us? why does the world knotwork the way we expect? that's the theme i keep coming back to. >> host: how long did you sit with an idea? >> guest: a long time. i mean, i think about a book for years before i start writing it. if you could ask a reader to commit a big chunk of their life to your book, you have to correspondingly commit a big chunk of your life to that the. in other words come you cannot

expect people to make the investment in new if you don't take your time. so i thought about this one and collect ideas for years before i started writing. >> host: some of the david and goliath stories we've heard our military stories, viacom versus the u.s. army. are those included? >> guest: the book starts with the retelling the actual david and goliath story, which is not what she think. very different reality than has been. and then i tell a story from vietnam about a guy who understood early on but the viacom was not who we thought they were, that they weren't going to give up easily and no one would listen to him. it's because the military was not -- the american military was not my collarless a pink had difficulty with the notion that someone could without obvious

strengths, without money, and then come the weapons, anything can still be a commendable opponent. and that's what my book says the opposite, don't be fooled by the armor someone is wearing. what matters is the man inside of the armor. >> host: how did the tipping point change your life? >> guest: well, i suppose they just put me on the map as a writer. and so it's paid way for the success of my other books. it didn't change me personally. it just made my professional life a little easier. people i suppose return my phone cause a little faster than they used to. but it didn't turn into different person, which i'm thankful. it was such a bizarre and happy accident that that book is so well, but i've just been

grateful ever sent. postcode you look at your books or do people look at your book says perhaps self-help books? >> guest: you know, all great books are self-help books and not a encourage us to look more closely at ourselves and what we think and how we behave. so they are. they are not how to change your life and 72 steps, but the reason i write them if i want people to take a step back and say -- just rethink their own experience. say that had not occurred to me or that's how i make sense of that. or that sheds a whole new light on something that's happening to me or someone i know. >> host: malcolm gladwell, there's a reason and goliath goliaths and that is if they been successful. how do they maintain that success? >> guest: that's a great question. the first half my book is

devoted to the waco light shoots himself in the third that the acquisition of success or failure. breaking out of this cycle is very, very difficult. every single day we look around us and we see one idea diffusion falling. the camera that is recording the show is like zoning. last year -- i read the news paper yesterday to keep $.5 billion. that's happened in 10 years. they've gone from the top two situation where people say openly they should package name. you know, this country, we talk about vietnam. there's never been an individual country as powerful as america was in 1964. what happened over the next 10 years in vietnam? we were humbled.

so there is something i think profoundly humbling about what happened to giant, the goliath. so to be someone in position of great authority empowers a more precarious position and i think most people realize. >> host: vaidya goliaths shoot themselves in the foot? >> guest: well, there's many reasons. i explore just a couple. one of the strategies that make them krehbiel keep them create. and that's not true. to us they underestimate how useful and creative when you don't have enough, when your business could shut down tomorrow, when you're constantly at the very end of your wits,

you coming in now, some cases you fold and die. but if you don't, you learn how to be innovative and take chances and to take risks and do all kinds of names you wouldn't ordinarily do. when you get comfortable coming here no longer under the compulsion. and that is a huge -- that is a huge transition in many organizations or individuals can make. they simply forgot how useful their own disadvantage was. >> host: are there lessons to be learned for the american political system from "david and goliath"? >> guest: you know, i was canadian. i was always very wary of any political system. i don't know that they are. i'm in the minority, but as someone who's not from this country, i'm always impressed at how good our political system

is. look around the world. is there one that you would trade for the american system? none of them are perfect. ours is imperfect. it's pretty good. we all pay our taxes. and people want to come here. so it's like i don't think there's anything. besides i can tell it's a pretty good job. >> host: are you a citizen now? >> guest: i remain a canadian. i can't give up my canadian accent. >> host: malcolm gladwell, when does "david and goliath" hit the stands? >> guest: october 1st of this year, 2013. >> host: this is booktv on c-span 2, previewing malcolm gladwell's newest book, "david and goliath." 2013 is when it hit the bookstores. thank you for watching the tv.