writing my memoir was difficult in a way because journalists are unfamiliar with the word "i." we're used to writing about others not ourselves. now i remember telling "the washington post when i started to write the book, that wouldn't sell because it had no sex in it. [laughter] also published in 1999 was john mccain's auto biography. >> i think the most important thing we can do is put a plan in place to keep the economy growing. if the economy doesn't grow,

it's a sphi candidated -- if the economy doesn't grow there's jobs. it's hard to make a living. one of the main jobs of a president is to have an economic plan that helps keep economic growth alive. my second major job is keep the peace. i keep saying that. i can't tell you how important it is. >> keep watching booktv for more facts about our first fifteen years on the air. so her family had very little idea of her accomplishments until after her death. this is about forty five minutes. [applause]

thank you very much. i would like to thank the froman bookstore for inviting us. i have a few prepared marks which will include reading a few pass aimings from the book. these are marx that basic let me tell you a little bit about my mother and how her story in the book came to be. i have a question for you. it's a rei or it call question. you don't have to an. the question is this. how much do you really know about your parents? when i was growing up i was like any other kid. whaipted to know my dad did every time he went to work in the morning. i knew he was a engineer. but what exactly was he doing there? whenever i asked him, dad, what do you do when you go to work? he would always have the same answer. a little of this, a little of that. many years later, long after i

gotten married and busy raising a family of my own, my father invited me to attend the air show. while we there were, he ran in to an old friend from work. the man looked at me and said i worked next to your dad for fifteen years. i said, hey, you're the guy i've been looking for. i want to know what did my father do every morning when he went to work each day? he got quiet and thoughtful then he said, a little of this, a little that have. [laughter] that's the day i discovered my father had been doing more than just acting coy all the years. he was repeating the party line that all engineers with secret clearances had been taught by their employer. but if my knowledge of my father's daily vocation was meager, it was even less with my

mother. i was told my parents worked together for awhile. although in different departments. i knew that shortly after my younger brother steven was born, my mother retired to become a full-time wife and mother. i heard few whisk pers among friends and former coworkers. small, briefly worded clues. about important secret project that she worked on other the years '40s and '50s. whenever i prone -- probed it would stop. whenever i asked my mother. i couldn't even get a little of the and a lifl that. whatever she did she didn't want to talk about. eventually she insisted i stop asking. the thing i need to make clear is this; we never talk much in the morgan household growing up about anything.

my mother, for example, not only refused to talk about her life in the air dr aerospace business. she refused to talk about any aspect of her life. she was secretive about everything that placed a high value on personal privacy even within her own family. i'm sure some of you had parents that regaled you from many stories of the youth. not my mom. nothing about walking to school barefoot in the snow. none of those great stories. for my brother and two sisters our mother's life was a steel safe. locked and shut. -- excuse me. i would like to read from the opening -- this is the opening photograph of the book. this is a story about a mother who never talked to her children. this is a story about a wife who rarely talked to her husband.

though they were married for 53 years. this is a story of a woman who desperately wanted happiness but could never summon the strength to reach for it. this is a story of a woman when had a family that loved her but struggled to love them in return inspect is a story about a woman who people admired but could never get close to. this is a story about a woman who harbored many secrets and lived in daily fear that the secrets would one day be revealed. this is a story of a woman who took the secrets to her grave. this is story about america's first female rocket scientist. this is a story about my mother. in january of 2004, i received a call from my sister, karen, our mother passed away. victim of enfaa see ma. too many cigarettes over too many years. i called my father to ask him what i could do. two things, write an obituary

for the europe -- give a eulogy. how do you give a eulogy or write an obituary about someone that kept everything bottled up? the time i come i decided for people to stop acting coy. the time had come for people to start talking about mary sherman morgan. i drove to my father's house and interviewed him. prying open that steel safe. he told me a few things some of which i already was aware of. she was born in a small farm in north dakota. she was youngest of eight children. her father refused to send her to school when she was young wanting her to work on the farm. e haven'tly -- eventually the state of north dakota intervened and forced her father to allow her to attend school. they gave her a -- the state of north dakota gave her a horse so she could get

across the river that separated their home from the schoolhouse. when she enrolled she was three years behind. even so she managed to catch up and pass everyone. graduating in 1940, as her high school's class valedictorian. as soon as that graduation ceremony was over; however, her father insisted that she return to work on the farm full-time. instead she packed her bags and ran away from home in the middle of the night and headed for ohio. where she enrolled in college in ohio, which doesn't exist anymore. during my interview with my father, he gave me one other important piece of information. he said in the 1950s my mother worked on secret program that was instrumental in america launching the first satellite. she was the first female rocket

scientist. did you know that? i said, no, dad, no one ever talks in the morgan family. [laughter] and mom would never talk to me about anything. my father said, don't feel bad, your mother never talked to me much either. [laughter] he gave me a list of a few of my mother's former coworkers and suggested i interview them as well. which i did. as i consultanted those interviews slowly, ever so slowly the onion layers of my mother's secret life began to peel away. one of those former coworkers was irving. i assume you recognize the name. in the 1950 he was a chemical engineer at northern american aviation. after losing his job in 1960 he studied to become a defense attorney in los angeles. his most famous client was charles manson. he one day referred to as the -- [inaudible] but his first career was in

aerospace engineering. he worked at the desk next to my mother. the day i was born, he -- charles manson's future attorney came to the hospital to give me my first birthday present. a baseball bat. i was one day old and i owned a baseball bat. [laughter] after a few days, i completed my interview with her coworkers, some i had done in persons, others over the phone. i felt i had enough information to complete the two-tales my father had given me. i typed up an 0 bitch area and stoant the los angeles times. i figured it would be a slam deng. i wrote the eulogy and delivered it. after the funeral we had a small luncheon. i served up a plate and went to sit at a table filled with my

mother's former coworkers. to tell you what happened next, i'll read from the bottom of page 13. no more than two minutes went by before i felt a stern tapping. i saw an elderly gentleman sitting across the table. his face winkled and folded. he stopped tapping my hand, using his index finger to point at my nose. he spoke. you need to listen to me, young man. i was 50 years old. he was calling me young man. this is great. yes, sir, i said. my name is walter, i knew your mother. i worked with her. i'm going tell you something about her you probably don't know. listen carefully. i'm listening. he looked left and right as if checking for fbi surveillance. then staired through my body like it was made of glass. in 1957 within your mother

single handily saved america's space program. nobody knows about but a handful of old men. you need to tell her story, he said. you need to let people know the truth. don't let her die nameless. in 19 50 the scientific community much most of the world's largest and powerful country held a meeting during which they decided to set aside political differences and work together to achieve a list of common scientific objective. they call ited the international agree owe physical year. it was run from july 1st, 1957 through december 31, 1958. the significant goal was the united states and receive yet union to place the scientist didn't consider this to be a competition of any sort. but in no time at all that's exactly what it became.

it involved a test as to whose political system was better. american democracy or soviet communism. by today's standards this kind of face off may sound quantity. back then people took it seriously. america's entry to the undeclared space race was a rocket program. life, television reporting news reporting came of age. they could watch the news in real time. what a concept. watch they did. as one american vanguard rocket after another blew up on the launch pad or had some other malfunction. it was a black eye for americans science and embarrassment for the american people and humiliation for the government. in the middle of that, word started leaking out that the soviet union was close to making the first orbit l attempt. the sad irony was that america had the disposal the finest rocket scientists in the world.

they brought in other 100 german engineers they used none of the money. they pocketed them away in texas called fort bliss. the government was naturally concerned about the embarrassment of having former german war machine scientists working too closely on american projects. toward the end of 1957, two events occurred that changed everything. the soviet successfully launched sputnik. another vanguard rocket blew up. under intense public pressure they advanced the doctor and begged him for help. he had a problem of his own. he a rocket, the red stone, that could reach orbit but phonal it's perform could be boosted by 7%. a significant amount in the rocket engineering business.

they needed more powerful fuel. but despite their education and expertise. they were unable to come up with one. none of the -- that existed would provide the required 7% performance enhancement. he worked under the direction of budget of the u.s. army. they decided to order a contract to north american aviation to come up with the propellant. the general who ordered the contract gave a following instructions to the administrators in north america. our country's entire space program depends on solving this one singular problem. make sure you put your very best men ton. whoever you choose doesn't know it yet, he's about to become the most important person in america. the head of the department of research and development gave this reply. well, general, i'll be glad to give the project to the best man. i have to warn you when it comes to new and exotic our best man

is a woman. what he neglected to tell the general it was a farm girl from north dakota with a high school diploma on her education résume. so it was my mother found herself at the center of political and technological maelstrom. she arrived in north america after having spent the years as a chemist. remember i said she in 1940 she ran away from home to continue her education. no sooner had she gotten to ohio and spent year there, then she was recruited by a local weapons factory. perhaps so you heard of it. plum brooke ordinance. supplied a lot of munitions for the military during world war r. for four years, she worked at some of the most volatile and dangerous chemicals designing explosive sieve. after the war as most of the women left the wartime jobs with, my mother applied for jobs

around the country finally landing one with north american aviation. i should mention that even though she was given the same work assignment of the engineer. she was forced to carry the lower tight since she didn't have a college degree. it was her responsibility to calculate how two rocket propellant would perform when mixed and burned. this was far cheaper than having to go out and test them. it was this specialty that positioned her to be put in charge of the propellant contract when it arrived in north america aviation seven years later. so it was that a farm girl from north dakota with only a high school diploma on the wall was given the task of succeeding where experienced education and

genius had failed. after five month of work, she arrived what they had failed to do. she created brand new rocket propoll lant that more than satisfied the 7% requirement. the red stone rocket at the time used liquid oxygen. when the army asked my mother what she wanted to name the new fuel, she said i would like that call it bagel. so we can say the red stone uses lox and big bagel. [laughter] she put that in writing and stoant the u.s. army. the u.s. army; however, didn't share her sense of humor instead called it high dine. when it was launched in explorer i it was the one and only time it would be used. and this brings me back to the los angeles times obituary. after i sent the article, i

watched the newspaper every day. the obituary was important for me and my family because it would finally give our mother the notoriety she deserved but never received during life. another week went by. i hadn't seen it published. i called the newspaper. i was referred to a lady named barbara. i asked if she received out obituary. she received it but decided not to print it. she said that she was -- they were unable to print it because they could not verify independently any of the information any obituary article. over the next three weeks i had many conversations conversations with barbara sending note and copy of the interview, signed averred from former coworkers. in the end it wasn't enough. my mother's lifelong insistence on privates had intelligencely or unintejly written her out of the historical record.

there was nothing of any of her accomplishments. one day i opened up the "los angeles times" and i read a half page obituary about the man who invented the oscar meyer wean knee whistle. for me it was the last straw. i called up barbara, the description of what happens is on page 15. my final phone conversation with the editor of "los angeles times" department grew heated as she continued to refuse to publish it 0 pitch -- 0obituary. i threat tonight -- threat tonight take some kind of action. what are you going to do? sue us? oh no, i'm going to do something worse than sue you, i said. i'm going write a play.

i hung the phone and immediately opened my laptop. through the magic of theater i decided i would accomplish what history, the army, nasa, and the media refused to develop. i would write a flay and use it to bring my mother's accomplishment to the light of day. this self-imposed assignment turned to a gurn any. taking know many places as i played detective tracking down the small number of former coworkers still alive. they were all retired. some for decades. i told them about what i was doing. they were unanimous in their desire to help. in november of 2008, the play "rocket girl" opened. playing to large enthusiastic audiences. at the end of each performance mother and daughters come up to me and tell me how inspiring the play was for them.

a few years after the play closed, i received a strange e-mail from a woman i never heard of. this is what it said. i've seen the media attention mary has been getting. i think the time is come to know for something. you have an older sister you have never been told about. i should point out that the media attention was the result of the play. i assumed it was the electronic equivalent of a crank call. so i deleted it. over the next few days, it started to haunt me. one day i went my e-mail and i undeleted it. [laughter] kind of makes you wonder if the internet is really like the law of conservation of energy. nothing can be ever really be destroyed. [laughter] i sent reply. who are you where did you get the information? she replied call the number and provided a phone number. her name is ruth. she has the information you

need. one evening i called the phone number she provided and a groggy ruth answered. sounded like i woken her up. i told her about the e-mails. do you know what this is all about i asked? i do have a sister that know one has told me about? yes. i'm your sister. we talk a little and she explained my mother gotten pregnant before and given her up for adoption before her first birthday. it was a story ripped from a lifetime movie. but i still wasn't convinced. i called my father and said are you aware mom gave birth to a daughter before you met and she was given up for adoption? my father said, yes, but how did you find out? i'll read one last thing from the book.

history books, notebooks, photographs, and video carts filled with talking heads. i stair at them realizing they institute ten years of my life. the intoar view and research and i don't know much about my mother. she was a genius at everything she did. nothing else was she more skilled than her prankish campaign of personal self-e ration. her effort of living a full life while plotting the expunges of her name required a level of mental far beyond the average person. fortunately, her attempt make herself well regarded in life but anonymous in death ultimately failed as she touched too many people. i began this evening by asking a question. how many of you do you really -- how much do you really know about your parents? for those of you who are parent, how much do your children really

know about you? when we're gone from the earth, our legacy will go with us if we have not taken the time to write down history of our lives. to record our failure and accomplishments, our joys and sorrows, our dreams and disappointments. whether they be big or small. there are people who are going to want to know about you someday. to quote one of mo start's friend. "write it down." thank you very much. [applause] [applause] i guess we have a q & a; is that right? okay. is it okay sitting down? do you need the mic? >> why don't you come -- in case you have -- robotic questions.

>> yeah? >> yes. i noticed you are -- [inaudible] [laughter] >> when you talked about the play. and i wondered what your reaction was in that. >> yes, i was one of the people. let me come to the short one. i have -- he will probably not member it. we hasn't met at time. i came up and talked to him. i with toant the premiere of the play, and being a woman, and an engineer, it really touched me. i grew up as part of a generation that has experienced a lot of gender prejudice. i have walked to a meeting and asked to get coffee. and that can be tremendously frustrating for us. but watching that play helped me to put everything in perspective.

because while we still have a ways to go, we have come so far. i never had to worry about going to school or going to get a technical degree at the university, or at least with an effort being accepted by my colleagues. and so i have the luxury to complain about the little things. thanks to people like mary sherman. and so i have spent a large part of my professional career trying to advise young girls and remind them what is important. and not let the little things get to them. so they can succeed, and like mary did, just do their work and do it well and do it right. and threat be. thank you. >> this question is to arkansas lee. if you have -- [inaudible] there are more men than women in stement. if you have one. what is it? >> i had --

i have a theory. -- i want to point out in the job i do working on the mars rovers, on both of the current rovers we have working right now opportunity and curiosity, the project is 50% women. so we have come a long way. i think it's largely cultural. i think that for whatever reason we haven't given girls or boys a really good female technical role model. and more and more kids are growing up developing their idea of who they can be from the media. so an example i like to give. it's a wonderful show and entertaining, nobody watches the big bang theory and wants to be sheldon. we need to teach people we're not sheldon and there's more to offer. and i continue ever want to hear, again, i hear it all the time that girls can't do math.

if the boys won't like me if i'm smart. we not just center to encourage the girls but the boys. i think it's a lack of good culture image of who technical people really are. >> i would like that add something to that. my mother was the only female engineer out of 900 engineers which she first started working there. one out of 900. i asked her once, i said, an offhand comment. i said you probably had a lot of dates while you were working there, didn't you? she said no. i think she had that same problem like guys didn't want to date her because she was so smart or something. that's my guess but i don't really know. she would never tell you. >> i wish i could tell you that cute guys change the subject or

start talking to my friend when i told them i was a physicist. >> two-part question. has your play been published? so it can be produced elsewhere across the country? and two, has there been any movie interest? >> the play is not published with a professional though at call publishing company. i do have a website music box international, which is a small little company. i founded it about eight years ago that people theaters can go on line and click on a few links and get the rights to produce the play. so far it's only been produced twice -- by two other theaters since 2008. i like to get it to samuel

french or more professional company and get more exposure. second question. when the play came out, i received no questions at all about movie. but the manuscript after i sent the manuscript, we were still two months away from public indication before they started getting calls from film producers interested in knowing for the right were available. now nobody has actually approached us with an offer to make the movie, they just keep calling wanting to know if the rights are available. we say, yes, they are still available. so nothing has happened yet. there is some heat being generated. yes? >> what is the reaction of your sister and -- is your brother still alive? >> he is. to the book. their reaction to all of this investigation with a you found out. >> that's a very good question,

and i have a brother and now three sisters. i have to get in the habit of saying three sisters. not two sisters. it's taking me a long time to get used to that. one of my sisters, her name is monica. she's younger than me. she's the baby of the family. she was very upset when she found out i was writing a play. she became more upset when found out i was writing a book. she knew that the sherman family would not be very well portrayed in either the play or the book. which they're not. the reason they're not well portrayed is because they didn't deserve to be well portrayed. [laughter] i mean, any father who refuse to send their kids to school is not going get a fair shake in anything i write, i'll tell you that for sure. it's a man that refused to send my mother to school for three years. only did so after the state of

north dakota forced them and brought a sheriff on the property of trying to arrest him. so monica knew what was coming. she knew i would not be portraying the sherman family in a good light, and she's very friendly with a lot of sherman side of the family, and so she -- she's not speaking to me right now. the counter point to that is, everybody else in the sherman family loves the book. [laughter] family, what can you do? [laughter] >> what are the relationship now? >> she always knew about us. okay. so this knowledge thing was one-way street. growing up, my mother would exchange christmas cards with her, send her letters, kept up with dialogue with her for many, many years. without ever telling us

california kids that sister existed. so when i found out about her, i, of course, i mentioned i had the phone conversation with her. i called my siblings and said we have to meet this person. she lives in detroit. she works for the catholic church in a rectory as a secretary for a priest. okay. i said, we have to meet this person. so we decided we would pool all of our resources and buy her a ticket and fly her out here. i said we pooled some money together. we're going buy you a plane ticket and send you out here. no, my husband passed away. i can buy my own ticket. i inherited a lot of money. okay. so she bought a ticket and she came out for christmas vacation, and we took her to the center and ask all the southern california intellectual stuff.

that's what she wanted to develop we took her to the pacific ocean which she had never seen. it impressed her more than anything else put together. yes? >> was the -- eye dean only used one? if you can elaborate. >> it was a stop-gap measure just to get something in to orbit. just to get our name on the chalk board as, yes, we're in space now. but at the same time the work was going on. other new rocket engine were being designed with more powerful propellant. by the time "explorer i" went to space. technology surpass the it. it's like my dad once said something. he said, it was like the apple ii computer. it was state-of-the-art for four weeks. [laughter]

somebody else had their hand up? >> in science? >> no. she -- she was the youngest. all the sherman kids passed away now. but the husband of her sister elaine worked on the apollo program and helped design the apollo grand module. when that terrible fire occurred, that took the life of three astronauts, his department of in charge of making certain electrical devices for the apollo command module. they had to redesign one of the part to make it fire safe. when they rebuilt this part, he personally flew it tout keep canaveral.

and watch them install it. so his name was tony. tony was very involved in the space program. none of my other mothers, brothers, sisters were involved in anything technological. >> are you still working on trying to collaborate her accomplishments? [inaudible] am i still promoting? [inaudible] trying to collaborate the truth about your mom and her accomplishments. >> that's what i'm trying to do with the book. it's nothing better than the book to help get information out. i'm collaborating in the sense that i'm coming to places like this and talking about her and doing everything i can to

promote the book. it's not exactly collaboration. it's more promotion than collaboration if that answers. >> no, corroborate. >> okay. yeah, that's a good question. if you read the book, you discover there's a lot of information on this. every company that scrolled gotten information from stole wall -- stone walled me. there's a lot of companies involved in this because north american aviation has branched off to other corporate entities which swallows each other, purchased each other, sold them out. now you have entities like boeing, pratt and whitney, and a half dozen other air are space companies that have records somewhere in the bowl of the computer system about what my

mother did in the '40s and '50s. every time i call them they have the same answer. call our attorney. they would not give me one piece of information about her at all. even after she passed away. she they would give me nothing. they provided me with three photographs. two of which we published in the book. as far as information, i guess i'm going have to go to the freedom of information act or something. they won't give me anything. it's still a big secret. [inaudible] >> should we call ourselves and say hey, you need to do this? >> they still haven't published the 0 pitch obituary. my dad asked. i'm hoping it doesn't publish it. it's a great story tell. [laughter]

>> maybe you can get them to publish a book review. [laughter] or go to the "l.a. times" book fair in april. >> actually, i would like to point out that "los angeles times" is the only major newspaper that is not yet printed review of the book. >> i'm canceling my sub subscriptions. -- [inaudible] the trilogy. for those of you who know bryan the theater director he and i have been planning for a long time to have a trilogy of science-themed plays. original plays. "rocket girl" was the first. the one we're working on now we don't have an opening date yet. we're working on a play about stanley and martin. the cold fusion guys from 1989. i'm sure many of you remember that. that big science problem. there's a lot of human trauma in

the story. i think it would make good theater. we're working on it now. i have no idea when it's coming to the stage. thank you for asking. thank you for allowing me that plug. [laughter] >> did you mother ever continue her education at all? >> after all of us kids were grown up and moved away, she went back to community college, piers college in woodland hills and got associates degree from piers college. [laughter] >> what year was that? >> in energy -- something to do with energy conservation. it's not energy conservation. she became an expert -- interesting. she had a second career. she became an expert in energy audit for business and homes when a business was spending $100,000 on the electrical tbil would come to her and she would help them reduce their

electrical and energy bills. she got really good tat and became really big in demand for ten years. yes? [inaudible] no. [laughter] my dad was really a great dad. he would take us baseball game, and he would enroll us in sports and do -- take us on field trip to the science museum and all sort of places. my dad was really great dad. my mother never wanted to come along. she was kind of a home body. she just wanted to stay at home and drink coffee, and read the newspaper. she really just hated getting -- didn't like getting out of the house. she couldn't have been agore phobic. she liked camping. [laughter] >> yes? >> are you going bring your book to some of the girls schools around the area to help promote

science education? >> i -- they still have girl-only school? >> yes, yes. i would love to. do you have any connections, hook me up. but i'm looking for any and every way to promote the book i can. and that's certainly a good idea. >> i think we're time for one more. >> okay. one more. maybe two more. go first. i'm coming from high school, which is where you went high school. -- [inaudible] go eagles! [applause] [laughter] there's a lot of interest actually in women's engineering there. so is there any way you could

possibly come by? i think a lot of people would be interested in the book. >> i absolutely would love to. i have a warm place in my heart for that high school. i don't know how many students they now. about 300. >> 2,000 between the two campuses. [inaudible conversations] >> do we have a bunch of -- raise your hands! wow! yeah. for those don't know. it's a small private high school college preparatory in woodland hills. i have to remember. they changed the name. we have to think about it now. last one. one last question. the last question is for her. she couldn't be here. she's out of state on business. she sent me from long beach. her question to you is the toxicity level at the field laboratory a concern to you during your visit?

or did you wear a hazmat suit? >> they actually have public tours at the field laboratory. nobody wears hazmat outfits. from what i understand, there's no chemical hazard danger there at all. there some stuff in the news about there might be some radduation hazard. 2800 acre. it's pretty big property. they did nuclear work there for couple of decades. and there is some concern about some nuclear contamination there. but i'm not glowing and i'm still feeling okay. they didn't have us wear any sort of protective outfits. i think they were probably smart enough to keep us away from the dangerous stuff. i want to climb on the rocket but they wouldn't let me. [laughter] thank you very much! [applause]

[applause] booktv is on facebook. facebook.com/booktv. this fall booktv marking the 15*9 anniversary week. this weekend we look at 1999. our second year on c-span2. some of the best books include: i know i have written two books and it was successful beyond my widest expectations they print 27,000 copies first edition. if you have one of those now, it's worth $6 60, i believe. i'll take it off your hand for

$25. [laughter] i didn't expect at all. nobody did. and i'm often asked, how do you account for the success of the book? and i don't know. i'm newcomer. i wrote one book. now on my second one. people in the business should know better than i. there are experts everywhere. even in the publishing business which seems to be a gamble. nobody expected it to go to have the success it did. they bring to the 27,000 copies and a couple of weeks it was on "the new york times" best seller list at number 15. the lowest number than it began to climb until they reached number one. that took a few weeks. it was published in september. when it appeared on the best seller list as number 1. right up to number one. that's because --

[inaudible] i'm big shot now. [laughter] i have been -- i have pulitzer prize and everything. the day after i won the pulitzer prize, i was saying to my wife, i am a good husband. i talk to her. [laughter] the morning after i won the pulitzer prize, i said to her, well, i said, how does it feel to have your head on the same pillow as a pulitzer prize winner? she said i would feel better if you get up and make the coffee. i've always made the coffee. i thought because i won the pulitzer prize i was excused from making the coffee forever. i suppose have to wait until i get the nobel. which will be a cold day in hell. [laughter] that was a little -- [inaudible] nobel -- cold day in hell. keep watching booktv as we look back at the first fifteen

years on c-span2. romance in the mob those mafia buffs to a certain degree it's romantic. there's a level of brutality to it that is just terrible. you can never -- you know, as a writer, by the way, people say to me, like i'm being interviewed. don't you get captured by this? don't you get lost in who the guys are? the term moral capture was what a federal prosecutor used to describe what he thought happened to him. hanging around the guys. he would wear a pinky ring, wear gold jewelry. every other word was an f word. he said in the book, i to get with the guys and be like this them to convince them to trust me. after a certain point, the stockholm syndrome happens. you begin to potentially cross the line. as a journalist as fascinated as i am. i have 0 audit myself.

don't fall in love of them. think of the scene in "goodfellas." he stabs the guy to death with a fountain pen. that's what you have to remember. not everybody is like that. this is the second son to scar pa. this is how he ended up. this is scarpa outside a social club. now he was -- this is where he in the '80s he paid the dues with the g, the government. he became the most poability craws for the tight iii wire type came from scarpa senior. they can argue and he called it the championship season in his book. that at mafia was broken. on the left he goes to prison. anthony fat tony and anthony so you to have a middle name like

if you're in the mob; right? you know. anthony "the ant ." they go to jail. that's what makes rudy ghoul giuliani. this is like, wow, anthony "gas pipe "another interesting middle name. he was the underboss of the family. took over after he went away; right? he went after john gotty. he had a guy put a bomb in the car of a guy named franky. and goty wasn't there. and franky died and blown to bits; okay? and so now there's a contract out on anthony. and the three young guys shot at him one day. he was eating an ice cream cone in the car. he survived. he wanted to know who of the guys are going to get him. it's a famous interview he did for the ed bradley -- great

reporter for 60 minutes and said bradley. talk about the most famous murder. jimmy, one of the shooters. and he got the mafia cops, i'm going to -- who were living in las vegas, as you know in 2005 were arrested in las vegas. louis, i actually wrote a pilot for a series called "missing persons." i was a show runner. i started with mike man. my first trip to las vegas was to shoot a script i had written. i tell people i started at the top and worked down. it was the first trip to las vegas. they shot at las vegas world. and anyway the cop arguably the biggest organized crime law enforcement story in the last ten years they were later convicted of supplying information to him that he would use to kill people. guess what he told me? he told me that jimmy, the most

famous murder, the cops delivered him to him. but the intelligence that he got to learn that he was the shooter he got from gregory scar pa, senior, who he believe got it from -- this is another part of rewriting the modern history. he said to bradley. i shot him a couple of times. >> how many? >> twelve or thirteen. anyway. anthony gave me an interview from prison. that was an eye opener. this, again, the comparison to bulger. this is whitey. john connelly his control agent doing life. two convictions. completely different story.

the dplan montana knew the bulger case contacted them. as did angela. the forensic investigator who got a lot of files and the con influence of the three of us, them reading my book. resulted in him on the 30th of march, 2006, was came up from florida where he retired and full pension and indicted on four counts of murder. and on the right. that's a picture. but the next day after he was a million dollars bail was set for him. okay. 50 exagents -- supported him. they surrounded him as they walked down adams street from brooklyn supreme court. there was a scene unlike you have seen. they were pushing people away.

nay were banging guys out of the way. straight arming guys protecting him while the reporters asked question. they called it body checking. chuck grassley of iowa mentioned it at the jew -- judiciary committee meeting. but just the tactics were pretty wild. there was the trial started in, like, october 15th 2007. headline like this every day in the new york tabloids. agent of death. one of the star withins was linda. the woman i told you about. and it was alleged that by these reporters, now on the left you see jerry. one of probably the most famous and the greatest contemporary reporter on organized crime. he had a column called "gang land "he played hymning on the

sopranos. so tom robins the guy in the middle worked with him at the daily news. he was the interviewed linda in 1997 for a book. they claim they, you know, it's kind of suspicious they claim to look for the tape just before trial. they had known for year and a half she was going a star within. whatever. on the right is mike. a lot of names -- i'm a -- [inaudible] i'm half italian. half of my book is accurate. all right. anyway. no but mike was the prosecutor. he was on trial. and so jerry who, by the way, when he was at the height of the war, okay, like, you know, the war was wage from '91 to '93. 14 people killed including two innocent bystanders. six people literally that scarpa killed himself. and was no doubt leaking information that lead to some of

the death which is why the brooklyn da indicted him. they wrote about it and they knew that he was going to be one of the star withins. linda lies and they end the trial. look at the now the headline woo weeks later. talk about a reversal of fortune. moll tape frees g.-man. they couldn't be happier. you know what they did? they celebratedded at the steak house over champagne. he was given the own note of irony to the thing. listen to the judge's decision dismissing the case. what is undenial in the face of the obvious men -- the fbi was willing to make their deal with the devil. they gave scar pa criminal immunity for the information. not only did the fbi shield him from prosecution for the own crime. they actively recruited him to

participate in crime under their direction. that thug like scarpa would be employed by the government is a shocking demonstration of the government's unsoapble willingness to employ criminallalty to fight crime. you can watch this and other programs online at booktv.org. judges are like umpires. they adopt make the rules. they apply them. the role of an umpire and a judge is critical. they make sure that everybody plays by the rules. but it is a limited role. nobody ever went to a ball game to see the umpire. >> that came across as -- about institutional jurisprudence. all the judges did was sit there and see whether the statute was inside the strike zone or outside the strike zone. that suggested that the job of the justice was relatively ?

mechanical. at least that's what the metaphor came across as.ú?ú? when justice kagen was questioned, she said, well, yes, i mean, you don't the justice to be the focus. you want the law to be the focus.ú? bht justices make a decision,ú? the law is not only as clear as? you know, all coming right down to the strike zone, and there's always some very frequently some degree of judgment that is involved in determining whether the statute constitutional or not. ..

this is a little over an hour. [applause] >> thank you. that was a wonderful introduction. i started this book back in 2003 so it's been a ten-year odyssey that the seed for this book was actually planted many years earlier. it was back into mid-1970s when i was seven or eight years old, and there was that day -- i grew up in westchester county new york in a suburb just nort