>> thank you. since the incident happened in kenya there has been a lot of media throughout the community scrutinizing the image of the somalis. what we need to reiterate over and over is the majority of the community are law-abiding citizens. we are talking about you individuals and those few individuals conveyed the message or image of the somalis. >> correct me if i am wrong, seems to me i believe there are only several hundred al qaeda in afghanistan, but al-shabaab has 5,000 members. am i correct in the information that was given, 5,000 make a al-shabaab organization? dr. jones? >> that number sounds a little i 4 full-time members but i think you are correct to point out the

numbers of al-shabaab are larger than the numbers of al qaeda in afghanistan. >> dan borelli. >> dr. jones is right. a point on your other statement, we have learned lessons over the course of the years in law enforcement that don't jump to conclusions too quickly. we need to not look at the person's last name or where it therefrom but their actions and keep an open mind because recruitment and radicalism and the opportunity to join a terrorist group bent compacts of violence transcends the person's place of birth or religion. >> appreciate that, thank you. >> mr orr box of california is recognized. >> i did extensive investigations on the oklahoma city bombing. and i believe there was some

muslim connection to that from terry nichols at the same time ramsey youysef was before these oklahoma city bombing would indicate but that has never been proven. radicals whether they are anglos for muslims had the same enemies and those are decent people throughout the world and in especially the united states of america to ally ourselves with good and decent people. let me just note, talking about thousands of people, thousands of people, this is not an operation that can be financed through contributions from

individuals who sympathize. what was the cost of a bullish in somalia? >> probably 10 to 20, not to mention the cost of the rbd or the cost of explosives or the cost of vehicles or the cost of training or the cost of recruiting. these were enormous costs. these were things that cannot be done. one of the problems we have here in the united states is law enforcement is trying to find somebody who donated $100 from cabdrivers somewhere to this terrorist network somewhere in my world. we need to get down to the nitty gritty and find out who is providing hundreds of millions of dollars to terrorist operations throughout the world and who is spending money to

recruit these young people, who is providing that money and for some reason i have an inkling they are people in the middle east to make a lot of money from oil. i don't know what countries they are but i have that inkling and i suggest that we should be able to prove that but we have been keeping that information from the united states so who is pumping in tens of millions of dollars into these terrorist operations? am off base when i think that? >> there is a lot of gray from where al-shabaab gets funding, but there's a large amount of funding from other locations in addition to the middle east, kidnapping can be quite profitable as can illegal trafficking in a range of goods

including charcoal smuggling in some cases in the hundreds of thousands and when you add the kidnapping in the millions of dollars. >> someone has to have those resources there are banks involved in this in some way. >> that is likely. i am not a treasury expert so i would defer to those who followed banking more than i have. >> all i can suggest and what i am suggesting today is in law enforcement's, i like how dan borelli is talking about how we have to get to the actual psychological and combat the recruitment of people in these communities but we have ignored the big guys. you want to get to the source, the bottom, and cut them off from recruiting people but we have been going after the little

guys, even a first individual the when we have some very big players in the international terrorism who for some reason we have not been willing to touch with their big banks or somebody in saudi arabia who have $1 billion some place and pumping in, we are ignoring them. and this horrible massacre, deciding to focus on the big guys who were financing all of this mayhem around the world. >> thank you. i would be happy to yield. >> has the indictment by the international criminal court in any way frustrated the u.s. ability to work with the kenyans, he stated he will not be intimidated. he has a large number of peacekeepers deployed in

somalia. >> thank you, wonderful question and we hope they get the opportunity to enter it at some point and we will turn to the question and answer. >> thank you for sharing your insights with us today. a couple questions for mohammed farah, if you could give a couple of examples of the work on the out reach you are actually doing in the community as well as your suggestions with the non-governmental or nonprofit organizations within the somalis community as well as law-enforcement, pro-active way to prevent these recruiting efforts. secondly if you could speak about how the somalis american community views these recruiting efforts and what actions within the community as well as externally they are taking to denounce these efforts? >> thank you for the question.

in terms of our mission to empower to stay away from all negativity whether it is al-shabaab or gangs, we have to treat al-shabaab like a gang and that is exactly what they are. a lot of art and education go hand in hand in everything we do, we're talking about our spoken word, we use the arts to engage youth but ultimately education is the key. tutoring and mentoring is the core of what we do and recently we have created the first-ever some of the boy scouts, something we haven't seen recently. we are trying to integrate the youth to the greater society as best -- there is a lot of great work in the community that is being done before us. we need to invest in those

programs and that is what is missing. aside from what we're doing externally in the united states we need to focus on what is doing in the community and empower local entities. an all volunteer base organization, how can we fight al-shabaab when they have millions of dollars and you have entities in the community who are trying to -- the federal government is am i a, missing in action. in terms of the somalian committee, they feel the same way across the board when it comes to a al-sabah. we condemn the work of al-shabaab and those individuals, few individuals don't convey the message for the somali community. >> thank you. to the rest of the panel, i don't know if you are able to estimate what percentage of the financing for al-shabaab is coming from the u.s. or from

these remittances you are talking about. and secondly, if those recruits and the one is getting from the u.s. is it your understanding that their intent is to engage in fighting abroad or here? >> based on the conversations i have had speaking with people in minnesota their intention is to fight abroad but as i mentioned especially now with consolidation of power, and more of a global jihad message of fear is they could be turned to come back end take the fight here in the u.s.. with regard to your question of financing i don't have a number. maybe one of my colleagues has in terms of problemss. >> given the way money is transferred and the lack of transparency in the system, one

thing i should say to follow up on dr. jones's remarks earlier, a key source of financing for al-shabaab until very recently has been with in somalian itself, taxation of populations in al-shabaab controlled areas, the largest porche in the country, and the territory it controls, funding is being squeezed as well. >> we are honored to recognize the chairman of homeland security. >> i want to echo the gentleman from california's remarks about the funding issue, the majority of these threats when you look at these organizations and the funding streams, the majority of

them tied back to the saudi peninsula in terms of funding. this is the inconvenient truth no one talks about 0 want to deal with. there's an article today, hundred thousand dollars sent to 25 -- and a terrorist organization. this was something we are going to deal with at some point in time. this is something the saudis being our ally presents a problem. it is a challenge but something we need to address and see it for what it is. i am concerned about the threat to the homeland with respect to these americans. we have a hearing on homeland security in 2011, 50 of these al-shabaab members are from the united states. i think there are more than

that. 50 that we know about. the first question to dan borelli 11 with your expertise with the fbi what degree of confidence do we have on the identity of these americans over very in terms of who are they and can't we get along the no-fly list? are they on the no-fly miss? one of a threat to the homeland with respect to the returning after being trained and recruited in the war on terror? >> with regard to your first question, in terms of being able to positively identify these individuals, get them on the proper watch list and so forth a lot of progress has been made. i have been outside the fbi for three years icahn speak to what happened in the gap from one i retired until today but when i did leave the fbi we had a fairly high degree of confidence, nothing is 100%.

this is where we need to engage the community to help us help the fbi identified these people, to know when they leave the grid and confirm the fact that they had joined the ranks of al-shabaab. secondly to your other point, the risk to the homeland i would say is definitely there. i don't know if it is higher today than it was a month ago but my fear is a type of situation where somebody leaves with the intent to fight abroad and are coopted to take the fight back home and these individuals if they have been off the grid for a while have a. passport they can get back into society and reintegrate and we have a serious problem. >> within al-shabaab we know there is the rift between the

american from alabama and the current leader and the risk as i understand it is between whether they want to focus their interest regionally or expand that as you talk about external operations beyond the region to western targets and the united states. he was assassinated, his disciples, a week before the shopping mall attack. the thing about a shopping mall is it is a symbol of -- ford of the western target. you put all that together and that is very confusing and disturbing as well. what do you make of this thrift with al-shabaab and the assassination and worthies americans under his control in any way, responsible and complicity with this attack on the western symbol, the west

gate shopping mall? >> i can't speak to the degree of involvement among americans. it is being looked at by our own agencies to some degree but what i would say is i would strongly support your point of risks within the organization, there has been encouragement apparently from ayman al-zawahiri to conduct attacks outside somalia and what the u.s. does can influence it, in 2010 there was an suv attempt attack in times square. that organization the pakistan taliban was assessed earlier that year by the u.s. intelligence committee. and with the drones strike. if we take the action in somalia, they would be right after us.

our actions also can impact. >> it seems my time is expired. >> mr. vargas of california is recognized. >> i want to focus on the united states. obviously i read here on page 4 that al-shabaab has developed the ability to recruit some molly americans since 2007. the epicenter of this effort has been minnesota with the large somalia american population. i represent the area of san diego and we have a fairly large somalis population. there was during the ethnic cleansing in kosovo what -- my wife and i decided to adopt a muslim family and wedge through the wars of ethnic cleansing so we did. they lived with us for two years and during those two years i met many in the somali community who were airlifted to california. i have not heard of any recruitment in san diego for al-shabaab or any terrorist

organization. can you comment on that? >> i would say the fear is that the internet does not know the boundaries between san diego in minnesota and al-shabaab is very effective in using the internet. many young people get the message from the internet so while there may not be. on the ground, that type of recruiting, the fear is you absolutely have recruiting in san diego via the internet. >> i heard it earlier, the notion that somalis terrorists were coming across to mexico, california or new mexico/texas border or mexico and the united states. do we have any evidence at all of that? >> yes. the movement of individuals from the united states south across the border. some have returned. i am not aware of many that have returned that have been prepared to conduct attacks but movement

of individuals in both directions. >> my understanding is most of the somalis who were brought here have permits to be here, legalized status. >> the vast majority do. my point was there is a human trafficking network that has moved somalis out and into the united states via the u.s./mexican border. >> the reason i say that is the border seems to become the excuse, the terrorists are coming across the border. i have good relationship with border patrol. we met here last week. they have not apprehended many terrorists coming across the border. it seems most of the terrorists and i agree there are a number of them. we have caught people and find people, come here illegally. eager in an airlift, some humanitarian effort on the part

of the united states they have permits to be here. >> that is the vast majority but i would also point out some americans have left to fight through that border as well so it is not just the returning. >> it is accessing the united states, not entering the united states. >> i don't know the percentage that have entered that way. >> we have any evidence of anyone that ended that way? >> i can't speak to that. >> any information of any person who has been arrested? >> i can check and get back to you. >> would you please? it is usually used as an excuse, the borders porous and terrorists are coming through ended is mostly landscapers and not many terrorists, people who become terrorists are those that arrive in this country with some sort of permit where we threw our generosity as a nation take a look at some horrible event

that is happening around world and we allow people to come here on a humanitarian basis and unfortunately and scandalously and outrageously they become terrorists or terrorist sympathizers and we should prosecute them, go after them and show them, in the united states stretches out its hand for friendship as we have historically we should not tolerate any sort of terrorist for terrorist activity or terrorist sympathizers. i want to make the point you hear over and over, all these terrorists coming from mexico or the southern border of the united states who don't have any information. we have lots of information of terrorists from other parts legally into the country, become radicalized to fight somewhere else and blame it on my home town when there is no evidence of it. >> we will get back to you on that. >> thank you, mr. chair. thank you, we go now to mr ted

poe of texas. >> thank you. i have three questions. first one, how does al-shabaab use twitter and what do you understand twitter's policy toward al-shabaab? >> my understanding is they have used surrogates to send out a messages on twitter, but i cannot speak to twitter's policies on using, monitoring or targeting al-shabaab on twitter. i will also say much like the number of groups we have seen including ones affiliated with al qaeda have become active on multiple social media forums including this twitter case, a propaganda tool. >> to support that point,

al-shabaab needs to use young people, immediate family, savvy and use skills and familiarity with internet social media to great effect, a powerful recruitment tool, we need to respond to that. >> what do you mean respond? >> we need to be smart in how we use information to give you an example when the attack was unfolding, al-shabaab or people reporting to the al-shabaab members were goading the kenyan authorities, the kenyans through their own social media, a step behind the whole time, flatfooted and cause a lot of confusion, governments need to be smarter about how to respond

to this threat. >> what are the long-term goals, objectives or policy of al-shabaab? does anybody want to weigh in on that? i will start picking up folks if nobody wants to weigh in. >> al-shabaab is a broader organization. clearly the ascendant wing has run to global jihad that increasingly looks beyond the borders of somalia to launch attacks, primarily in the east african region targeting specifically those countries that have peacekeeping troops in somalia. on the lookout for soft targets representing western interests so that is why the west gate mall was perfect. >> their goals are just to cause

chaos worldwide jihad, murder, pillage? >> their goals have evolved throughout time. they started out, nationalist armed wing posing ethiopian innovation at that time and went through a process once ethiopian troops left holding substantial amounts of territory in somalia and tried with disastrous consequences to govern territory. eventually they were forced back largely from other african peacekeeping troops and now they seem to have pulled back and are pursuing this jihadists the agenda so when i hear al-shabaab is -- people say al-shabaab is weak, that might be true. they have narrowed down their agenda, paradoxically makes the more dangerous, they channels their objectives to narrow goals

and that is the terrorist attack agenda. >> in africa do we see al-shabaab, other al qaeda affiliate's growing, in influence, is their influence the same is it diminishing in africa? increasing the same or diminishing? i see you pushing? >> when you include north africa as well as the horn, there's a slight increase in influence of al qaeda and broader jihadists movements, and other locations. and al-shabaab's control of

territory has decreased. if you are asking africa -- >> anyone else? >> across time there has been slight growth. and specifically in mali where al qaeda affiliate's took control of that part of the country for a short time. being pushed back largely through military intervention, some support of others. and the movement launching attacks and killings multiple people in that part of nigeria, primarily it seems to be domestic by nature so i would not say they necessarily pose a

threat to the u.s. homeland. >> thank you, mr. chairman. we go now to lois brendel. >> thank you to the panel for being here. i think most -- i share with americans what happened at the west gate mall in nairobi was horrible. our heart goes out to the victims and their families. now we see cnn and other media outlets have turned away to other stories obviously. what i would like to ask you to do, some very basic questions, which is a few could lay out in as clear a manner as possible why the public, americans should

be concerned about what happened? what is the potential threats from al-shabaab not only in the region but beyond the region here, that needs our attention? given what is happening internally in the united states? >> i will take the first crack at that. the biggest reason we should be concerned as americans is looking back at history and what happened with al qaeda, that we view the originally al qaeda as being not a threat to america as a regional problem focusing its efforts on the middle east and central asia and we learned the lesson of how a terrorist organization can morph and change and become our no. one enemy. in my opinion that is the biggest concern with al-shabaab, that it can morph and change into more of a global threat than it is now.

>> if i can add to that, we should be very concerned about al-shabaab because it is not just a regional issue. their biggest goal is to do us harm in the united states. if they are capable of doing that, their main goal is really to attract disadvantaged youth and brainwash them and that is where we need to come in and stop that before it happens. that should be our main concern, doing more work internally in the united states and treat al-shabaab as we are treating al qaeda. >> al-shabaab has capability to conduct external operations outside of somalia. they have an interest in targeting the united states, its embassies, its citizens, kidnapping as well as killing

and they have been recruiting in american communities including over the internet so you put all three of those together they should be a concern. >> we talked about potential threat to the homeland but there are important substantial u.s. interests in east africa, kenya, an important ally to the united states, nairobi is home to largest embassy in africa, the hub for development programs that cross the region. many big u.s. firms have regional offices in kenya so irrespective of al-shabaab's capability to hit the u.s. homeland they have proven their ability to attack neighboring countries to somalia and that by necessity involve u.s. interests. >> do you want to add anything, dr. dan borelli? >> i think all my colleagues

some of the situation very accurately. >> thank you very much. i waive my time. >> thank you. very good question. let's go to jeff duncan in south carolina. >> let me remind folks al-shabaab has been around for quite a while. they announced a merger in february of 2012 with al qaeda so they are not just a franchise. they are part of the whole structure now. in past hearings we learned of various networks, some affiliated with al-shabaab, involved in smuggling somalis through mexico. is this still happening? for what purpose do you think of the once smuggled people into the united states? >> my understanding is it is happening. i cannot give you specific

numbers on how many may be smuggled right now. your question on the purpose, there may be several purposes, people wanting to return home, people intent on recruiting more fund-raising goes to the primary reasons. >> anyone else like to comment on that on the panel? okay. besides the 2010 attack during the world cup al-shabaab has focused much of its attention in somalia. this attack in kenya fits the strategy ayman al-zawahiri lie out for al qaeda globally. does -- that al-shabaab is on the retreat, dr. jones? >> i think one senses the competence of terrorist organizations like al-shabaab in several ways. one would look at their control of territory which they lost but

what they demonstrated is they lost ground and that issue is important because one of their goals is to attempt to overthrow the somalis government. their success on that part of their strategy, they have not been victorious at recently but what i think they have shown and what this does demonstrate is even though they lost some ground they still have an attack capability. if you look at the history of al qaeda the strength and weaknesses of its affiliates and organization itself have ebbed and flowed in a series of waves. even with the collapse of al-shabaab into southern parts of somalia they are dangerous organization. >> do you think that capacity extends beyond the african continent? they think al-shabaab has the capacity to carry out this kind of attack or a mumbai style attack somewhere else in the world? >> it is feasible. based on the fact that they have

again conducted external operation outside somalian. they have done the collection analysis reconnaissance of the target. they have moved people in fighters into place. what they would need in a specific country, the united states or europe or somewhere else is they need the people in place, infrastructure in place to do that. they had an interest and could do would. >> the think the focus on counterintelligence, being so focused on al qaeda as a whole do you think we have taken our eye off of these smaller subgroups like al-shabaab or their other subgroups that might be planning similar attacks the we need to focus on as well? >> i think an important chunk of our intelligence community recognizes a threat from

al-shabaab. i can't characterize -- i would say in response to that the fbi and other organizations have been affected at penetrating them in the united states. i do think we recognized the threat. recently whether we have laid off a little bit, that is a more interesting question. that is certainly plausible. >> can i just that i don't think we have taken our eye off the ball in terms of al-shabaab but we should be aware of potential other groups in vote wider region and an alarming element of the west gate attack is it appears al-shabaab may have fostered links with kenya based group which he emerged from an extremist mosque in nairobi and many had some involvement with this attack, investigations obviously our on going. you need to be alert for the emergence of new groups and their attempts to make contact

with other broader terrorist groups in the region. tanzania is another country where there is a small but growing problem with islamic extremists in parts of the country as well. >> my time is expired. i yield back. >> we go now to mr. brad sherman from california. >> thank you. america provides advice to countries on the rule of law and good government. we are in a situation where many of us are embarrassed to be part of the federal government and this congress. this shutdown, what effect has it had on our image particularly in east africa as a country and the model to follow and our capacity to train, to gather information, to do the development projects aimed at hearts and minds. i realize this is away from the questions you may have prepared for but does anyone have an answer to how the shutdown is

affecting our efforts in east africa? dr. jones. >> mr. chairman, i don't know what the perception is in east africa. my biggest concern the longer this grows or at least one concern is our ability to continue to monitor this threat from intelligence agencies if we have people that have been furloughed. >> there are an awful lot of folks at the state department that are being furloughed right now. trips to africa have been canceled in the last week 10 minutes, this is no way to run a superpower. dr. jones, does al-shabaab have important assets, strategic assets that are amenable to destruction from the air by the kenyan, british or american air power? >> they have some. the kenyan used fixed wing

aircraft helicopters to target al-shabaab camps, structures that they have established such as headquarters. they do have some facilities that are targeted. >> is the kenyan air force up to doing that which can be done or is there a lot that could be done by american air power, british air power that cannot be done by the kenyan air force? >> i am not an expert on the kenyan air force or the ethiopian air force but i would say they have been successful in helping the somalis government push back al-shabaab from several key areas. >> mohammed farah, i am sure the vast majority of somali americans are law abiding by not only a tiny fringe engage in lawbreaking in order to help al-shabaab. my question to you is does

al-shabaab have significant legal support? that is to say, people in the community, rooting for them, praising them, condemning the efforts of the ethiopian and kenyan militaries, are there websites based in united states that condemn kenyan factions in somalia or praise al-shabaab? >> i can assure you that a great majority of the community is on the same page when it comes to al-shabaab. nobody goes out there and gets excited when they hear al-shabaab on the news or when they hear attacks by al-shabaab. everybody in the community feels the same way as i do which is condemning. >> what about those websites? could i find pro al-shabaab or

anti kenya websites in the somalian language based in the united states? >> i'm not aware of any websites of such. >> the kenyan government has painted a picture of 10 to 15 attackers, one with the british and of the 3 with american citizenship, what is your best estimate to anyone on the panel as to how many attackers their work and how many had waivers. >> we have very little to go on right now. the kenyan of 40 was slow providing information about the attack. we don't know the basics, how many attackers in what groups, how many estate, where hostages taken, we have varied little to go on other than it turns out a fake twitter account from al-shabaab which gave a list of

names of people and we have no ability -- >> we don't even think that is al-shabaab. >> al-shabaab said this wasn't them. >> finally does al-shabaab have substantial support among somalis who live in east africa but outside the borders of somalia, that is to say kenya, egypt, etc.. >> there are some sources of support from outside somalian particularly in kenya, the main somali district, the kenyans raised concern about the enormous refugee camps within the kenyan border close to the somalis border, 500,000 people. >> the second largest city in kenya. the second-largest city in kenya and the district in the largest city of cannes and not only contained somalis but there is substantial support within those areas for al-shabaab. >> i would not say substantial.

kenyan authorities say so but kenyans are concerned about refugee camp and have been hosting it for 20 years and perhaps in their self-interest. >> i yield back. >> colonel paul cook of california, thank you. >> because of recent events i will ask this question. any indication that they could have access to chemical weapons from any source? >> i am not aware of any. >> it would be a major game changer if they could develop something like that in terms of spreading terror? quite frankly i expected something a long time ago and nothing from here. >> nothing i am aware of. i would point to other groups where we have seen efforts, with a chemical program right now, but not here. >> i am worried about sarin and some of the other things and

maybe some of their allies that might not have it now but in the future get access to that. sold weapons that were used in the attack, primarily small arms, ak-47s, r p gs, any mortars or rockets, anything that could elevate at a stage or no indication of that yet? >> no indication right now from what we have learned? the information is patchy with small arms and grenades. >> 87s 423/4 antiaircraft capability are the ones to the best of your knowledge and goes back with the other question. okay. i know i am throwing a lot of questions but i usually don't get a chance to ask so many questions so i make the most of

it. it looks like there is always the major event, talking about the attack in conjunction with vote world cup and the big mall. has anyone looked at so cheap --soc --sochi? other don't think the somalian or the kenyan bobsled team is going to be a target but you look at the proximity to the caucasus in connection with the other terrorist groups, minutes or five months if my math is right, six months coming up and we have not heard much about it. i am sure the russians will have top security but if you looked at that in terms of or heard anything at all.

>> i have not heard anything. i think al-shabaab has had a plethora of closer easier targets and the west gave all this evidence of that. >> i hope the mall of america is not a target. because of its location in minnesota. my question is do they have a presence in canada? which has different rules, talking about al-shabaab getting in and out of the country or have you noticed any? >> no. >> i always look at a map. my last question, is there any presence of al-shabaab in djibouti or yemen in terms of arms dealing? >> i would say in answer to that there is and has been a relationship between al-shabaab

and al qaeda in the arabian peninsula based in yemen. they have conducted some training, they have conducted some shared tactic techniques and procedures, they are al qaeda affiliate's. that is the biggest link in the gulf area. other than funding, i am not aware. >> they have gone funding from cutter? >> they have gone funding from the golf, from inside the gulf. i can't give you a definitive answers from which gulf countries other than -- it is possible. >> okay, i yield back. >> we are pleased to recognize dr. yohope of florida for his questions. >> appreciate you being here. you said the youth movement is politically motivated, not religious. is there a way you can separate that from the muslim faith?

don't they go hand in hand? >> they do go hand in hand but in the conversations we had the idea of this war against the west, this islamic notion, did not come up in our conversations. it was couched in a way that the youth were concerned there were foreign troops on the ground in somalia and they felt it was their duty to go back to somalia to defend their homeland. was not like the person at work, the west against islam. >> i agree with my colleague jeff duncan over here about smuggling the somalis and to the united states through mexico and it does not take many people to

cause trouble, one drop of kerosene can ruin a at hate. that is an issue of hours, it is imperative that we secure the border. would you agree with that for that reason? >> absolutely. one of the things that came out of the bin laden documents in 2011 was an interesting getting somebody with a mexican visa. >> like a cancer that metastasizes. it doesn't take a lot. i want to direct these questions to you, mohammed farah. why did these emigrants come to america, or a lot of them? >> they come for a lot of reasons. obviously somalia is in a state of civil war back then. education, job development, the american dream, a couple options. >> wonderful thing. it is wonderful, freedom is a

major -- >> i agree. the majority of the somalis, practitioners of the muslim faith. do most somalis -- >> the majority of somalis people across this nation. >> the somalis in minnesota, and i was born there and proud to be from there. and assimilated in america as far as culture, ideals, beliefs and most importantly royalty to the united states of america. >> in terms of to some extent

they have been assimilated to the greater society but we do need to do a lot more work, there's a lot more work ahead of us, and identity. and this is their home. >> i commend you with the work you are doing. what is the average age in the minnesota region of average some molly? 30, 25? >> majority of communities between 5 to 24. >> what is their graduation rate? >> the graduation rate is very low and that is what i was talking about. a lot of underlying issues like lack of education. >> why is their lack of education? there assimilating into our

country. >> to some extend to some extent we need to do more work. if you look at the gender, females are doing great work. they are graduating more than their counterparts. there is a lack of mentor ship and that is where we come in. a high school rate is low when it comes to boys and that is where we need to do -- >> let me ask you something. >> and a small e-mail. >> the information we were reading, one of the main somalis communities, the main neighborhoods over 17%. >> unemployment. >> that is way higher than the average. >> fa i have questions to submit. >> we're pleased to recognize mr. weber for his questions.

>> thank you, madam chair. mr. jones, dr. jones. in your comments, you said you doubted that al-shabaab had competent external operations capability. >> repeat that one more time. >> i argued earlier they at external operations capability. >> i must have missed that. you said they -- i took from that you didn't think they could export peer horrific deeds to the united states. you believe they can. >> and to conduct operations outside somalia, what i haven't seen much is evidence of an interest in exporting those capabilities to the united

states. >> they have a recruitment system that they use where they actively recruit people in person and do they do it on social media? could you hazard a guess? is it 50/50 percentagewise? 90 on social media? >> i couldn't give you a percentage. it is quite large on social media. could not give you a percentage. >> okay. mr. dan borelli, i have seen the figure, 7 to 9,000 and i heard 5,000 as i came back in from getting some coffee. 7 to 9,000 fighters still an accurate estimate? >> i don't believe i was the one who commented on the number of fighters. >> anybody? >> virtually impossible to know. various figures range from 5,000

to 7,000 but this is a very amorphous organization. people drift in and out and the wing we should be concerned about, the jihadists wing would be smaller than that. these are estimates. >> and also a question for you. my youngest son is in the fbi so we appreciate your service. who monitors the historical schedule if you will? terrorism is on the rise. there has to be a list, chart, call it what you want to, of the countries, the incidents, who is involved, the number of deaths, who monitors that? >> multiple agencies monitor that within the intelligence community, fbi headquarters keeps statistics on the number of terrorist groups and the number of estimated fighters and

different attacks they have been responsible for but also cia, dod, multiple agencies keep statistics on this. >> there is the ranking of the most credible threats to the least credible, is there not? >> there is and that comes out under the authority of the d and i. >> who monitors that as a group begins to move up the ranking? who gets the red flag? >> i will refer to my colleagues but it is constantly reassessed at least on a yearly basis where the intelligence community looks at all the factors, groups are moving up and down and constantly being reassessed for the priority, the amount of resources we must direct at those groups. >> is that information, dr. jones, would you like to weigh in on that?

>> i don't have anything further to add. >> mr. downie? is that information shared with other agencies? i don't mean -- i do mean u.s. agencies but also internationally. >> i can't comment on how much is shared internationally with two exceptions. one is documents in particular in the communities shared closer with the british, the canadians, the australians and new zealand and i would point out when i served in government there were regular national intelligence estimates on the threat to the homeland that were combined by the national intelligence council land included the assessments of all agencies. >> i was vice chair of the texan borders committee of the texas legislature and steve wheatcroft, former director of the fbi, said that there were -- if i remember the numbers

correctly -- sects of eastern religions coming across our southern border. do you have any knowledge to that? >> i don't have any knowledge of that. >> dr. jones? >> i can't confirm that. we have a lot. >> the gentleman's time has expired. thank you. we thank our witnesses for their time, they're excellent testimony, this is obviously a serious threat. we are going to stay on top of and the committee will continue to monitor the situation and with that, the hearing is adjourned. thank you,. [inaudible conversations]

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