>> as i recall one of them was simply to add to the preamble that the sovereignty and all power would rest with the people. that was something madison believed, and a lot of people believed and they just want to spell it out. there was also, as a kind of thought to the anti-federalist. the anti-federalist were very critical of how small congress is going to be. this was going to be a very elite organization far from the people and medicine put in a provision that said, that it can't be, there can't be fewer than a certain number of people represented, or more than. i can't remember how many people could be in a district. and it turns out that it's good that we didn't put that in. and as i recall, that didn't actually make it through the house.

there was also an amendment that was proposed at that time that would've made the bill of rights binding on the states. we all know it took a civil war to do that. so the answer is extremely confusing and i thank you for asking the question. so we are done. thank you for coming. [applause] >> the book is on sale in the bookstore, and also from fine booksellers everywhere if you don't buy it over here. thank you. >> you are watching c-span2 with politics and public affairs. weeknights featuring with live coverage of the you centered on weeknights watched key public policy fits into the weekend the latest nonfiction authors and books on booktv.

you can see past programs and get our schedules at our website and you can join in the conversation on social media sites. >> here are some of the books that were published in 2003. that was c-span2's sixth year on c-span. >> we did what we're supposed to

do come first in the morning and any came down the trail and we've ambushed them. we killed them. we knocked them all down, about six of them. they were pushing their bicycles, and they were, they didn't shoot back. we just fired and then was over. when i came out on the road to see if we could take a prisoner and make sure they were dead, see if they had any identification. the little bicycle in front, the bicycle had been knocked over, and when i -- the little person -- where i went to see if they were still alive, we would take them prisoner, to see if they had any identification, any uniform or anything. it was a girl, a little girl. and -- little girl like that. jesus christ.

i didn't think i would do that. i'm sorry. where are we supposed to go? >> who was the woman who hugged him at the end? >> his wife. >> what is her role in terms of writings of the book? >> she's everything. >> continue watching booktv all weekend long for more nonfiction authors and books as we mark our first 15 years on the air.

>> it is important to note where you're from, and the fox that come from where life is been and where you're real blood has been. >> the battle of all of the corn is exciting to me because it is one of the things, one of the points in history when people get excited, angry, mad. people will yell. people will cry. about what happened over 100 years ago. spent welcome to billings, montana, on booktv. with help of our charter communications cable partners, we bring you to the states largest city. nicknamed the magic city it's known for oil and natural gas production, and a strong tie to native american and cowboy cultures. for the next 90 minutes we explore the history of the region with local authors beginning with billings professor tom rust on his book

"fort ellis" which exposes expls infantry and cavalry post built in 1857. >> fort ellis was the culmination of infantry and cavalry post which was two miles east of bozeman, montana, right at the edge of subtle and montana. it was settled from the west to the east. it was created in 18 cities have an to protect the settlers and the agricultural valley itself, the minefields in western montana. in 1867, there was a little bit of conflict between the native americans and settlers going along the bozeman trail. the bozeman trail was a cutoff called the oregon trail, kind of a shortcut from a gentleman named john bozeman who made a cutoff across central wyoming into montana to the goldfield. the indians were not

particularly fond of the show because of the number of settlers of going back and forth across the there were a series of posts on there and in 1866 there was a pretty substantial war coming right at the heels of the civil war. the civil war had just ended and this was a fairly major investment to protect the trail by the us army which was down at the time. the settlers of bozeman, the town had been established in about 18 safety for just as the trail had been established. they saw themselves as a great opportunity to sell goods and services to travelers which is coming off the trail just before they get to the minefields. it was a very agriculture rich valley. bozeman was an agricultural settlement so they saw themselves as being able to be a cornucopia of good sellers. the sioux started to attack in

1866, and they really wanted the trail to be closed and they saw this as an intrusion. there were a number of forts along the way. there was a pretty sustained effort against the cavalry who became very, very dangerous to settlers but at the same time in the spring of 1867 the settlers of bozeman were very concerned about the hostilities along the trail coming into the valley. and then it happened that john bozeman, who is the founder of the trail as well as the town of bozeman, what they called boseman said at the time, he was traveling with a friend, thomas calder, across the valley, which by modern-day living standards was killed. it was reported he was killed by indians, although most modern scholars think that he was killed by either thomas or

someone else, another white person. when he was killed there was a great standing in the territory, but especially in and around bozeman. the governor told general sherman to raise a militia because they all assumed that the indians were going to be flooding into the to attack the summit at any time to sherman was always somewhere locked into given to this kind of pressure, but thomas may have been the commander of the irish brigade during the civil war soviet military experience. at least new sherman on a professional level, and very reluctantly allowed them to authorize a militia to be formed and be reimbursed by the u.s. government. the militia was formed. nothing ever really happened, except for the settlers of bozeman, over half a million

dollars off of overcharging the government for goods and services. but sherman always somewhat skeptical of what's going on since the captain to check out what was going on. in addition he started rethinking synergy of the bozeman trail and whether not it was worth the investment. and so by the fall of 1867, sherman decide on thinking the bozeman trail need to be abandoned. it was no longer effective, both economically as was perhaps it was just a necessary provocative. secondly, that there was enough settlement in and around bozeman and further to the west of bozeman, the minefields. in 1867 he sent to companies and infantry to create a fort in the eastern part of the valley which became known as fort ellis.

at first they were a little bit unhappy about it. they saw the monetary flow of goods coming off of the settlers off the bozeman trail being closed, and one individual said the bozeman trail was closed when fort ellis became the gatekeeper. they were unhappy about that. i don't get to them long to realize that there was money to be had in selling goods and services to soldiers, however. and that money was probably more steady than the settlers. the soldiers were there all the time. throughout its history there's any number of examples where they took advantage of the soldiers by selling goods or by gambling for military equipment which soldiers could get court-martialed for because they weren't supposed to let those goods go with gambling, selling

alcohol, selling goods and services. the people of bozeman were upset with the people of fort ellis for not spending more money in town. the response the newspaper, then don't charge so much money for goods we can get imported. by november, the post commander was pretty unhappy with the people of bozeman. and actually declared on them. he said -- he said one company of soldiers to an establishment and literally took it to the ground because as he said, they were inhabit up furnishing intoxicating liquors to the command of this post. two days later, he sent troops into town to rant. he didn't destroy but orders, they were supposed to read stack, destroy the establishment of the children by the name of -- who presumably can though it was a little vague was somehow involved with military action.

and destroy all the liquor as well as furnishings within the establishment. so very early on the settlers realized there was money to be had. more or less to accept the reality of the trail being abandoned and the fort being there. there were always occasional skirmishes. no tribes really claimed it as their own. they crossed it, they would cross the valley and come to the yellowstone river valley, but they would return. but no cited seems to have lived there. the sioux and cheyenne were perfectly content. but the other, the tribes from farther west would come and go travel across the valley and that only create a level of conflict of where the white settlers and to read in newspaper accounts, -- [inaudible] and always a level

of concern and the settlers were always seemingly very concerned about all indians, regardless of what tribes they were from. and occasionally stock would be stolen. there might be the occasional little skirmish and whatnot. what was really interesting was that they would exaggerate that so they could write newspaper accounts about this incredibly large indian fight. you know, there was going to be a huge battle coming up, that there needs to be more troops. always needs to be more troops. the command structure the government or to their superiors which are in minneapolis and say, no, don't believe these reports. at most it was one person having a little confrontation. nobody was killed. the reports are wholly false. so the real interesting excuse, look at how the soldiers

responded to these purported attacks, what civilians thought of him. the settlers of bozeman were always waiting for the northern pacific railroad to make its way, it ended at bismarck and surveyed the land come from bismarck. they were always anxiously awaiting for it. there was a huge economic collapse due to an over extension of some of the rivers. the northern pacific railroad stopped temporarily. this caused the settlers and those with all sorts of conflict. they wanted to open the yellowstone river valley and the organist something called yellowstone wagon road prospect addition. which was to go find gold ostensibly. but is very fascinating that

there seems to be a subtext that they want to promote -- provoked the ending, to clear the land of indians. they thought that if the indians were the ones who are stopping these, when really it was much more economic. so they organized this wagon expedition of about 100 or so people that were going to be bozeman, crossed the mountains, come down into the yellowstone river valley and establish themselves by the mouth of the bighorn river. which everybody knew, everybody knew that this was indian territory. south of yellowstone river was fairly new indian reservation but they knew this would revoke the sioux and cheyenne as well. they went so far as to ask the soldiers at fort, are you going to stop us? there's a level of correspondence between the command of the fort at that time, their kind in between

commanders, a temporary commander there of the 13th use infantry. he wrote to his superiors in st. paul asking should i stop them? i don't think i should. ism not based on previous correspondence that i found in our files. so i told him no, i'm not going to, but if i'm supposed to, please let me know. the soldiers head off -- or, the settlers had off and there are a number of skirmishes. they keep writing letters back and forth. they are published in the newspapers at the time. there's one particularly interesting letter that's written back to the career, very interesting in that they say something to the effect, i'll just paraphrase, that we hear that a war has begun with the indians. that relieves us so much because

now we are cleared other sponsor of starting a. so seems that they were essentially being provocative and insulting, especially because chances of gold when they were going to go was pretty slim anyway. eventually they are -- there's a number of the people who were going to. some flood back to bozeman. some state in the stockades they built. they wrote asking for help and ultimately a january 1876, the war department has decided that the problem needed to be solved. and indians have a deadline to go back to the reservation or they were to face military action. they gave orders to the command at fort alice to move his troops, relieve the people which they did. they brought this advice from the four back to bozeman. all while that's going on in washington, d.c. and in the various editor department of the

west, they are preparing a great sioux noir, which is to force the indians back on their reservation which results in the battle of little bighorn. and also the battle of the rosebud, other battles that ultimately culminated in the surrender of sitting bolt -- sitting bull and crazy horse surrendering. it shut down in 1886, ironically after the behest of civilians in bozeman. it was taking up quite a big area of land in the west. the railroad has come through in 1884 and so people were very, very happy that the railroad was there. now there's a new economic bloodline for the citizens. they want to have that military reservation opened up.

they petitioned the government to close the fort and open up the reservation. what really interesting if sherman was always looking to build a fort, but it does not appear, in fact fort ellis was never on his chopping block. he thought it would be a great supply for newport -- forfeited and is established in a special right there in the agriculture heartland. so it doesn't seem to be interested in closing the fort. so when he gets that, it's a moment of opportunity because every time he tried to close afford to be a local uproar just like there is today when hear about fort closings. we need those jobs, it's too important, you can't do it. he wasn't going to turn the opportunity as we closed it down. one lady in bozeman who had been married to an officer at fort

ellis and they returned to bozeman to live said well, they soon regretted their decision. it doesn't really seem that they did. the newspapers seem to suggest we are happy that this land will now be open to settlement. the hell in the "herald in the h was a ways away is said to bozeman on the closing of the fort which netherlands will be much more productive and will bring more to the little settlement and small company. the book is in my opinion design for them to be able to draw their own conclusions. but what i really like them to see is that it's not as simple as the government being as economic stimulus package that wants the gulf of dollars that the people of baltimore competing amongst themselves as well for those dollars, that the

individualistic frontier settlers that were free of all government interest in the west, they saw that money as in fact very important. they thought it was the duty of the military to stimulate their economy. and the government by extension tuesday night economy. and so you can kind of bust through some of those rugged individuals mess. and also there was local level of infinity between the businessman but there's also some conflict of there. again, subtle and not-so-subtle given to the point where they did disagree about what should be done about the indians. it's very interesting to look at the level of candidates that the settlers seemed to feel versus the soldiers. now i'm in this tough situation, these guys want action, i don't think it's justified. also there's one that is really -- kind of in this weird

position because i'm supposed to present the civilians from india but also kind of supposed to protect the indians from the civilians. and so it's a much more complex relationship there, something that what we see in hollywood let's say. >> from booktv's recent visit to montana, crow indian poet henry real bird provides a history of the crow indian and the importance of preserving indian history. >> in the whirlwind, the feeling will begin. life, liberty and death, tomography. in the heart of our soul. from the bathwater's, still waters, tears of war and enjoy, victory recovered. we are place in the middle of largest that are different, for they make us become nothing.

and that will never come. so go ahead, hit the sacred drum. we have sent our step into prosperity to let yesterday gains into obscurity. all of us where we come from our one, multi-race america. we just want to live in peace in the whirlwind. we started out from the earth watch over on the big river, missouri river and walked up the elk river, yellowstone river was the wolf dogs. we were friendly. when they came through here, we were what we call -- the mountain lion sits, so we, since the inception of white people,

we worked along with them. because in a chief said dream, in the dream there's a hole in the ground and the buffalo swirled and when nfl and the ground and became nothing. out of that hole unraveled buffalo, longhorn cattle and just a little bit from part of the sun comes out between the ground and the sky. wagons come out. we knew that this life that we know of following the buffalo was going to end comment that we lived with these people that are coming. and so that's how we ended up being a peaceful tribe. to the people with light-colored eyes and light skin. but within the end of tribal warfare, we thought the sioux,

the blackfeet come and so we were right in the middle of them. and so that's how i wrote that poem. we are put in the middle of launches that are different, and for them to make us become nothing. that will never happen. old man coyote, he's the one who made the world for us and he's the one who made us. and so he placed us in the middle for all these other, where all these other tribes to get rid of us. but that will never happen he said. so that's why we have beautiful land, or warriors fought for. you see, the history, it isn't cold enough. the indian wars our history, and so that's all right. we just need to know about that so that kids, generation below

me, don't know that the signs were there that said, no dogs or indians allowed. these kids now with the baggy pants and the whole works, they don't -- they've lost everything. they lost everything, and so to have in these books and films and dvds and everything is all right. but my uncle, he was a big buzz over on the reservations when i was going up and he would always tell us how we're just like a blade of grass, a blade of grass. and we can move. we can move, and that's how life is. you get a long and you didn't and you move, but don't be so

dry and so rigid that you can't bend and move. to be able to give the past a breath of life, to show the people. this was i'd -- but then again, i write about reality and how our houses are have to with of the road because the white contractors bribed the housing authority to where they say the thick field is not very good and a prefab, to these house is better for the indian. and so the indian days these people all that money and they just dropped everything, and

they do the employment off the reservation. and so it's just, i write about like that. it is important to know where you are from, and the fox that come from where your life has been, we urge your blood has been. so that's why it's important. >> it's on top of sheep mountain. i am one of the ones that follow the buffalo. i am of shadow. spent booktv recently visited billings, montana, with the help of our local cable partner charter to mitigation to bring you some of the area's literary and cultural history.

next, hear stories from some of the first visitors to yellowstone national park. >> yellowsomes named a park in 1972. it was actually first discovered in 1807 by a man named john coulter. he was a member of the lewis and clark expedition and he mustered out of that extradition on the way home and went back with some trappers in 1870. he went looking for indians to trade with and pass through the park. the park was relatively calm for about 20 years after coulter come and then the trappers entered in the 1820s, to about 1840. then prospectors in the 1860s and people really begin to wonder what was up there. so it's more formally explored in the early 1870s, and they convinced the government to set

it aside as a pleasuring ground for the people in 1872. what my book is is a collection of first person accounts of travel, the first 100 years, the early story in there is one of the mountain in, a man named osborne russell who kept an elaborate journal. so it's one of few documents where we really understand what people who visited the park early did. and i tried to click stores that represented that, the range of experiences of people in the park. osborne russell is in the park with a trapping expedition, and these men are taking the day off. is a friend who's going to show him some of the natural wonders in the park. because there's dashing they're seeing things. so russell is in surprise when he sees this but this is what he says about. after serving these natural wonders for some time, my

comrade conducted me to what he called our spring. at the spring the first thing that attract -- attract her attention was a hole in which water was boiling slowly about four inches below the surface. at length they begin to boil and bubble, violently, and the water commenced rising and shooting upwards until the column rose to a height of 60 feet from whence it fell into the ground and dropped into a circle of about 30 feet in diameter. perfectly cold when it hits the ground. so that's one of the very early descriptions of geysers. it's about 1839. it's remarkable i think, you know, russell doesn't have the word geyser. he doesn't have its named boiling foundry but he's a great writer. he knows how to describe it.

we can picture a geyser. nobody knows exactly what russell was, but apparently he was at a geyser basins that is now defunct. a geyser that, like old faithful, went off every hour. three things made your yellowstone park visit, watching the geysers, watching the falls, and then going to the dumps when the hotels were built in the park in 1880s, they just dump their garbage out in the woods, and the bears discovered it pretty fast. so at twilight the bears would come out and rummage around in the garbage. and the tourists would come out to watch the bears. the early encounters with bears were people hunting bears. jacobean was a very colorful guide, being came to montana and worked as a copper for a while.

he was a meet hundred for the army. when the custard battle occurred he was among the people who went to recover custer's body. and later became a yellowstone park guide and he was the guy you go to if you wanted to go hunting in the park and, in fact, he got a hunting guide after the park at like hunting and taking people into the strand areas. here's a story from 1877, when he guided a confederate colonel into the park, and they're crossing the mountains and colonel pickett wants to be a bear hunter. in fact, colonel pickett does become a famous bear hunter. ..

about 30 yards away, if that and the kernel. when the cardinals shot the bear, it made a big growl and came down the hill on the run and pass within 30 feet. the kernel didn't know i was close behind him until i spoke. i told him to hold his fire of the very jumped to create. but he wouldn't do it. as a bare pass, the colonel shot

and missed him. when the pair crossed the creek, i hope and fire with a winchester. by the time the kernel could load and was ready to shoot again, i put five winchester into the bair. but the kernel gave him one last shot through the, while the bear was following. he rolled into the creek bed. hunting was legal and jealous dog park from 1872 until 1886 when the park was established. it was felt people would need, for sustenance, as i said it was a roadless wilderness. so when they set up a part, they wanted to allow hunting. the idea was trophy hunters soon came into the part, looking for al, moose, bears. they're pretty much decimated another game in the park. it's one of the reasons the army took over administration in

1886, was to get some people in there to police the park and take care of the wildlife. so there was an error if there went hunting was out of control in the park. that of course a woman who would do the part in 1803. the park is becoming a pretty civilized place by 1903. her good roads, hotels. but eleanor decides she wants to camp. she's not quite day in the hotels. it's one of my favorite stories. eleanor lived in wyoming and came home one day and told her husband to expect a bill that should buy the team and wagon and mystique in their seven children to jealous don park. she tells all sorts of marvelous stories about driving the wagon across wyoming.

quarter to quarter across wyoming. it was quite a trip with the seven kids, how they learn to camp and hunt and fish and feed themselves and have adventures. one evening she decided to baked beans. and here is her encounter with the bears. recipients were not done that at times, so i put on more would come in thinking they would be just right for breakfast. it was so hot stove was outside. about midnight there was a clatter from the following stove. sure enough the bair had tipped over -- tipped it over trying to get to my beans. he was trying so hard to work the combination of the other door that he failed to notice us in his excitement. not until i threw things at him would he go away. on the whole i presume, he would have been disappointed if only one prerelease had not paid us a visit. we never thought about being

afraid, but i used on the ingenuity and heidi and debate and sugar from prowling bears every night. as the travel and camp now, you'll notice their spare space where you can put groceries away with the very strongly to keep your food thought to in your car, and one of the face. but in this era, the bears wandered to the camp pratchett garbage cans, people's camps and the counters are very common. the earliest travels to the part, not men were very cautious about indians. indians past through the park. jack tells about his encounter with the band of blackfeet, so that was common.

by the time the park was settled, the indians -- a name for the part the one band of indians. cheap band of the shoshone smoothed out her true reservation. but there is that great adventure in 1877 when a nice purse passed through the part and not lead to what i think is one of the most dramatic, this told stories of the park. that is a mcallen. and that talent came to montana as the little girl in the 1850s. her father was a gold rusher and she says she kept hearing stories about the park from the time she was of little girl and wanted to visit. her father took her to mammoth hot springs in the early 1870s and their shared about going to see the guys answers. so when she married, she extracted a promise from her

husband. in 1877 he did. but that is summer and its peers left the reservation in eastern washington and idaho, trying to make their way to the buffalo country in montana. their plan was to go live with the crow. they were giving up their homeland to do this. one of the things that happened was they found a mcallen in her to his party. she was there with her husband, sister, brother and several friends. the indians came into the campground early in the morning and the tourists decided they would just leave. so they packed up their wagons and headed out in the indians headed with them. kind of surrounded them, escorting him along as they made their way out. as they came along, they encountered another the end of indians. here is what a mess that

happened then. suddenly without warning, shots rang out. to indians came dashing down the trail in front of us. my husband was getting off his horse. i wondered what the reason. i soon moved for he fell. as soon as he reached the ground, he fell had downhill, shots followed and all was confusion. in less time than it takes a telecom laws off my horse and by my husband died, where he lay against the fallen pine tree. pressure on my shoulder was trying away from the house and, looking back over my shoulder i saw an indian with immense navy pistol, trying to get shot at my husbands had. wrenching my arm from his grasp, and leaned over my husband, only to be roughly drawn aside. another indian step up, a pistol shot rang out. my husband's head fell back in

the red stream trickled down beneath his hat. and the cow hands account is one of the chimps of montana history. she wrote a 25 years after the event. so obviously, these memories were really fitted to her. one of the things that you need to know this church coed survived this. in another book i'm working on, i'm working on a whole book on these encounters in yellowstone park in 1877. in george's story of coming to, discovering he had shot three times, was able to lock in its first stop was for. it's a touching story. it's also a pretty dramatic stories across 12 miles trying to find help before he is picked up by soldiers who are pursuing

the indians. proposal for "adventures in yellowstone," at about 250 stories collected at that time. i've got closer to 400 now. i put the book together with a dozen best stories. i took the notion of adventures very seriously. i collected stories where people really encountered some difficulty, had something interesting happened to them. i let a pc in yellowstone park are nice descriptions of what happened and what they saw. but "adventures in yellowstone" book really has people who had high adventures hunting bears aren't countering indians are falling in geysers or maybe dad humorous things happen to them, like chasing a bear away from their camp fire. so that is kind of the story of adventures and yellows on.

>> next to montana, we take a look at the billings public library bookmobile. >> i am patty scott mckee and this is the 11th public library for the yellowstone county. that's about 34 long, weighs 33,000 pounds without books. and there's quite a few books on here. it's about the same. this is a hybrid vehicle and it's almost spring. they just got it last winter. it's only been in service for about four months. we bring books and videos, cds and all kinds of things out to residents of yellowstone county. so the billings public library just as the one main branch

downtown as part of the outreach program would like to get things out to the outlying residents. so people are kind of spread out in montana. be careful going in and out. [inaudible] >> the bookmobile goes to senior centers and schools and neighborhoods, kind of all over the county. today we are at war and school in montana. we are on a reservation. i believe there's about 40 students at the school, one of the few left in this area. i [inaudible] mark >> we have a satellite hookup on a laptop. they can just use their library

card like the main library. so it's pretty much the same. we just use a laptop instead of a regular computer. sometimes if it is in a rural area and the internet somewhere, we just -- i just scan it into the computer and upload it later. most places i come every two weeks or twice a month. so we just make the books do when i come. we don't charge late fees on the votes because if you miss a stop come you have to wait a whole mother two weeks. we would keep it parked at the library. there's another lady who helps restock it. we are not able to do that right now. we like to keep it in a secure lock line. there is someone at the library, so to start by philipp baskets and bring books on in my car. i really just enjoy driving it. it's a lot of fun to drive.

it's a really nice bus. i really enjoyed meeting all the people at this tops. i've been all kinds of different people. one of my favorite things is to go to the senior centers when they are having lunch and ate lunch with them. i like going to schools, too. the kids are a lot of fun. we deserve a lot of people in the county. until he can get some branches out in the county, this is probably the next best thing. i think the bookmobile has its own unique appeal because it is a really fun way to bring books to people, books and videos and we are very lucky to have this wonderful trout. there aren't that many bookmobiles left in the united states. i think there's about 700. so it's very unique. we have a really nice one. i've looked at a lot of pictures

online and compared to a lot of places, we have a really nice bookmobile. >> now, visit the battlefield little bighorn. we spoke with tim lehman on a recent book to montana with the help of her partner, charter communications. >> i have found this battle to be one of the most remembered in american history. it seems to have one of the handful of battles and even kids who flunked history in high school can remember it can't write and know something about it, even if what they know is incorrect. they know something something about it. even nationally and traveling to other countries, people say montana, that's where custer was from and that the beginning of a conversation a lot of times, surprising conversation. so this is a battle with

international said ticket. battle a little bighorn was cheney, 1876. they've been building for days, weeks and none and the climactic factions of the battle for a few hours that afternoon. leading up to it was a struggle over land as most of these indian wars have land at the base. in this case, 1868 treaty of fort laramie between the united states government and lakota nation had recognized the lakota lan claim to most of western south dakota and additional lands in montana and wyoming. that was fine in 1868, but a few years later, gold was discovered in the black hills in the united states government decided it wanted to renegotiate the treaty

by force if necessary. that's what the army without your doing, trying to come out to come into the agency to renegotiate the treaty to conceive morland. custer's attack came from the east here are over into the valley of the little bighorn, had a long ride that day. he was trying to be sure to catch the indians are they bound him, discovered him and he was afraid they would disperse if they did see him first, so he was aiming for a surprise attack. he had a problem and that he had the long drive. he would have preferred an attack, but that wasn't possible. so it was about 3:00 in the afternoon. he split his forces into three groups. one attacked, one did scatting to the south of us and custer

himself of the largest maintained their position on the ridge overlooking the valley. overlooking the indian village. custer's actions have remained somewhat of a mystery and that's part of the ongoing mystique of the battle. but from the indian point of view, they had a mishap from direction and then move to face this potential attack from custer overhear him lasting until and that is where the dramatic conclusion of this were custer was. that's where he died. after the battle, americans cried for revenge. there is a new round of fighting that lasted in bits and starts for the rest of the summer and into the fall and winter until finally by the next spring, crazy horse in the largest band

of lakota went to the reservation. sitting bull took a smaller number of suit within north of canada. and so the united states government did in fact get its way. the treaty was renegotiated in the lakota wherefores, illegally most people conclude, to concede a large part of the black hills. i say illegally because that is still in the courts to this day under contention about the ownership of the black hills. i think the biggest misconception about the battle of little bighorn is the name that usually applies to it, custer's last stand suggests cutter was fighting defensive action that day when in fact he was attacking the village and the last stand has been really questioned a recent archaeological evidence and may

seriously accounting for the being battle. so that changes the feel of it from custer's last stand to really the last stand of the northern plains indians, the last major event to read for northern plains indians. in addition to the myth of the last band, one of the mixes that custer was overwhelmed by superior numbers, that he was surprised and overwhelmed by superior numbers. of course there were a pot of stew and shiny and warriors. that day. more than he expected, but not that many more than he expected. the idea that he was overrun by superior numbers is a bit of a mess. they actually outfall to my day. they were better fighters on that day. they were more aggressive, more

spirited and they had sitting bull's vision that told them that heaven was on their side, that this would be their day, their moment of battle and they believe that p. they felt the righteousness of their calls. so that confidence and fighting spirit is weighted custer in more than numbers. i approached writing this because i felt the mythological story had been well told and believed by mainstream americans, by the student to night classes, for the. i wanted to tell a different story to make sure the variety of us were told and were felt vividly. i approached that with great trepidation because i was telling other people's stories. i'm not a military man. i was sewing stores of military

men. not just custer, but the soldiers who fight for custer. i was telling not native america. i was telling me that stories. so i was using my historian object tvd, but also historian empathy to try to tell a story that was every reader six hearing it some of the emotional content of his 19 centuries of posts. i start the book with crowe perspectives and attitudes towards the battle. they were surprisingly disappointed that custer have us because their allies have custer that day. fighting against what they saw as lakota intrusions on their land here at eastern on tiamat. the lakota participants in the battle were defending themselves . their way of life come in their

ability to follow the buffalo and remain pre-indians, not subservient to the united states government. so i try to pick up as many as those who send those voices as they could. from the day that the united states cauvery, i tried to say something about the variants not only of the officers, people like custer, but also some of the soldiers. i looked for soldiers accounts to include in the story. for instance, there is a young man named when golf who've moved from prussia to new york to escape services in the prussian army. thought himself poor in new york, not the key much english and plot devices of mine who said during the army. the next thing you know, he was riding around the montana hills,

in his words, hunting indians. and he was kind of surprised to be here. he survived and left a rich account of that experience. the battle of will bighorn is exciting to me because it is one of the things -- one of the points in history where people get excited, angry, mad. people will yell. people will cry about what happened over 100 years ago. it is a story with extraordinary power both for some people to confirm american manifest destiny and the essential right of american western movement in the 19th century. for some people it is the story of great tragedy and pain because it is a reminder to the suffering that people experience during the 19th century of the lands that were taken. so it still is a very powerful

story from any perspective that one looks at it. and it is a battle i should add that it's becoming increasingly more interest did not the united states pursues wars such as afghanistan, where instead of masked army such as world war ii, we are fighting hit and run guerrilla like strategies and that resembles this battle much more than say world war ii strategy. so people in the military as well as popular culture pay more attention to this kind of -- this part of our history. i would like people who read my book to take away a sympathetic understanding of what please of the pain and trauma of those years, but also of the complexity of the history, that

this is not simply immorality play, were like so many western movies, some good guys right in wearing white hat and bad guys right away worried blackouts or that kind of thing. the characters are complex and there are good people and a wide variety of positions as bad people in a variety of positions. most people who were sometimes good and sometimes bad, it's not easy to snap judgments. there were, for instance, many stew who judged that the best interests lay cooperating the united states government. the protonation as a general this decided that their best interest, the way to maintain their homeland were to be cooperative with the weights who are coming into their country.

so there is a great, as i say, variety and complexity in the kind of responses to encroaching white society and white government. >> craig lancaster is next on a tv. the former "billings gazette" book editors spoke with us during our recent visit to montana. >> montana -- this part of montana is a very literate state. it's an amazingly literate state just in general. but here you now, you have sort of a gathering of intellectuals and literary types are not sort of thing. so we read all over the spectrum. we are fascinated with plays. this place has history that is,

you know, sort of one-of-a-kind an anonymous source for books, magazine articles, not sort of thing. but we also have a really thriving literary culture. you know when i see literary, having, culture. we have working authors here in town. this stage certainly. missoula is renowned for its literary scene. people like tom mcquaid and thomas are they choose a huge name. i've been to a kiss from montana kittredge, walter kern lives here in montana. it is really an important part of who we are. and i think it is partly because we are so insular, you know? the last best place. steinbeck travels with charley

and he goes on and on about how much he loved montana and drives all over the united states, but montana is a love song for him. i think the combination of the wide-open spaces, but also the fact that company no, we have the amenities to walk for a full and happy life. i think that attracts people. it is easy to work eerie thing. it is easy to sort of slip into montana and have it be what drives you artistically. it's in writing about montana has the place that pervades everything. western identity, you know, the relationship with the land, relationship with the history, the culture. you know, that is a big backdrop for any montana senate novel or work of nonfiction.

you know, there isn't on the supply of books about little bighorn. it is really funny to think that this event that was reasonably short duration that happened a long time ago and you would think every name would have been on our, but it hasn't been. there's always new ground to plow. montana is sort of its own self-contained universe. you know, people here really do like to read about where they live in their history. there is a real connection among people who grew up here, especially the ones who are several generations on. the relationships of land, they might have for various came over and homesteads. so then it just really hard connection to the land.

.. how american mass culture, both took form in the united states, how it was exported to europe and how it became a way by which some many, many europeans got to know the united states in america. so we looked at transmission, the rise of american mass culture, the transition of

american mass culture and the reception between the end of the civil war and the 1920s. it starts early at the end of the civil war. it begins with the question of how after a civil war do you reconstruct how you pull a country back together again. and, of course, many historians look at the political system. the look at how a national political structure gets reassembled. and what we argued is in addition, what one need to take into account as i culture or how many cultures get put back together again as part of a reform make an of the united states. the united states becomes a real interest again because it's growing by leaps and bounds. there's increased immigration, and americans are confronted with a real challenge in terms of the process of reconstruction. how do you do it, how do you really get people of different backgrounds, not just north and south, not just people who come

from different ethnic backgrounds, sometimes from new -- how to get people to imagine themselves as americans? that's where the story gets to be real interesting because american mass cultural form, the rise of buffalo bills wild west, world affairs, all of these become pretty important aspects towards getting americans to think of themselves as americans. one could argue, exporting the values and ideas for a good long while, but in a lot of ways this really begins with the world's fair in london. the first world's fair, international exhibition held in london. when american manufacturers begin to but something called the american system of manufacturing mass production on exhibit. then that really picks up speed after the civil war and what we

argued in the book is in many respects it is buffalo bills wild west which takes form in the united states in the early 80s, early 1880s, really becomes part of an export process between united kingdom and much of your. between 1880s and the first part of the 20th century. so it's through these outdoor spectacles that european americans and europeans begin to think probably new what american culture was all about. the perception of the united states, depending whether you're an imperial power, whether you're a government, whether you're a businessperson, whether you're an ordinary person, whatever that means. so there are multiple perceptions of america. i guess the common denominator across europe is a tremendous curiosity about this place.

europeans have been fighting amongst themselves for good long while. the united states had not been so united in the middle of the 1860s. hundreds of thousands of people killed. how could this place come back? how could it basically be something different? could it be different? could it be better? there's a tremendous curiosity about the united states, about americans. that's part of the long dialogue because they did that before the civil war. it picks up after that conflict. the european reaction to buffalo bill is really pretty interesting. because europeans had not really not seen this kind of traveling show on this scale before. and because buffalo bills centered the wild west, he never called to show a show. he called it authentic

representation of the america west, and he traveled with animals, he traveled with bison, elk, deer. of course, horses. he had cowboys and then he also had native americans with them. and i think the overwhelming reaction of most of the audience is was one of utter amazement. and it's not just what they saw in the arena with people bashing around on horses, tremendous athleticism but i think what also impressed them was the way in which the show, i'll call it a show, the way it was actually set up. it was so portable. it was so remarkable to see this representation of nature, of the wild west really set up using the latest in techniques of electrical power plants, billboards, saturation media advertising. incredible organization of all of these actors. you have to feed them.

you have to get them moved from place to place, and just the sheer organizational. pretty profound changes in the way america business was being reorganized with the development of industrialization, based on efficiency and all that. the american government was not financially allies not directly the government was involved because the show involves a lot of native americans and there's a real tension between indian reformers, indian agents and american indians, and a big argument about whether indians should be allowed to participate in the show as quote unquote savage beasts of whether they should be represented as people who are perfectly capable of becoming modern americans wearing modern dress is.

but what's interesting about the wild west is that it does intersect with american foreign politics and the rise of america's stature after the civil war, within a generation of becoming a global power. so the show itself becomes really interesting as a testament of america, the global reach. so increasingly as the show develops across the 1880s, 1890s, early 20th century, the people involved as performers in the show include not only american indians, but japanese, malaysians, syrians, people from across the middle east. so that is this sense that this congress of performers, this congress of rough riders as they became to be known, really reflects the ability of the united states, personified by

buffalo bill who wound up the rest of the world and put them on show. so there are these really interesting overlays between the show as a private enterprise and certain aspects of american foreign policy. so one of the things we tried was a relationship between entertainment, pop culture, mass culture and foreign policy, and for some people that may seem kind of odd but there are these iconic photographs of elvis in berlin during the cold war. willis conover to show is broadcast, voice of america, a jazz program broadcast into the soviet union. and as i think as we speak today, the american basketball star, dennis rodman, is off to north korea trying to win the release of some american missionaries. so it's really interesting how you get this interception of foreign policy and entertainment, and celebrity.

by the time you are in the first world war, the government completely embraces america's mass entertainment, especially the techniques of getting the word out about the american perspective on world war i. so there's this very interesting government organization set up called the committee on public information. and this basically function as a propaganda arm of the u.s. government. not just putting messages out about what the world sees about america's involvement in the war but also it becomes deeply involved in those messages by censoring motion pictures. so in lower manhattan the naval intelligence is involved or they have several dozen people working in, i'm not sure they are dark rooms, maybe they have windows. they have physicists and a look at films that hollywood is producing and they basically say

if you want to export this who oversees you have to get rid of these particular things. so all of the great american hollywood producers, directors, all of them have their film subjects censorship by the same token, was increasing in all this is the government is relying on film, a product, a product of a reflection of mass culture to get its message out overseas. so american mass culture is not just developing. it has developed a it's part of american life and part of the people overseas are understanding who we are. with globalization of american culture, of course, some topics for conversation, debate, and the key issues that we address in the book, how should one think about globalization? should we think about it in terms of its impact on other cultures? does it the race local cultural

form? should we take globalization in terms of american and realism, which runs the risk of treating people in other cultures as how passive victims? or do we basically look at the reception of american culture products? where do you locate? how do you actually advertise? what do i american culture products signify? and this has worked for a lot of people and anthropology are engaged in. coastal studies, so it's an ongoing field of interest. and raises most, really interesting questions about what's going on a. i guess the point of the book was to try to conceptualize that and to suggest that if we look at the history, the rise of american mass culture, perception overseas, that people around the world have a rather longer experience i think they

meant many people today realize, think about american culture reforms, working with them. suggest extending this debate out a bid to give it a little history is really interesting. >> for more information on this and other cities visited by c-span local content vehicles, visit us online at c-span.org/localcontent. >> booktv's online book club selection for october is representative john lewis is walking with the wind, a memoir of the movement. spent as a young child -- i didn't like it. as my mother and my father, my grandparents, my great grandparents, why segregation? why racial discrimination? they said that's the way it is. don't get in trouble. don't get in the way.

but in 1955 when i was in the 10th grade, 15 years old, i heard of rosa parks. i heard the voice of martin luther king, jr. on the radio and the words of dr. king inspired me to find a way to get in the way. in 1956, with my brothers and sisters and some of my first cousins, we went down to the public library in a little town of troy alabama trying to get library cards, trying to check some books out. we were told by the librarian that their libraries were for whites only and not for collards. but on july 5, 1998, i went back to the library for a book signing of my book, walking with the wind, and hundreds of blacks and whites is and should have and they gave me a library card. [applause] >> walking with the wind is a

book of faith, hope and courage but it's not just my story. it is the story of hundreds and thousands and countless men and women, blacks and whites, who put their body on the line during a very difficult period in the history of our country to end segregation and to end racial discrimination. >> no need to register to join the club. just start reading the book and post your thoughts at any time on a book club chat room, booktv.org/bookclub. everyday through the month will post items to encourage conversation and putting links to interviews with the author, book reviews and videos from our archives. >> you are watching the tv on c-span2 here's our primetime lineup for tonight.

>> that all happens tonight on c-span2's booktv. >> here's a look at some of the upcoming book fairs and festivals happening around the country.

please let us know about book fairs and vessels in your area and will be happy to add into our lives. e-mail us at booktv@c-span.org. >> the c-span bus which is part down in the mall is a jeff chu was written in this book called "does jesus really love me?: a gay christian's pilgrimage in search of god in america." if you would, start by giving us a little bit of your upbringing and your religious history. >> sure. i'm the grandson of a baptist preacher and the nephi of two other preachers and my family has always been devoutly evangelical. we didn't always go to baptist churches, but i grew up deep in

evangelical culture. first in california and then when it went to high school at a christian school in miami, florida,. >> what was your family's reaction when came out as gay? >> i think it's safe to say they were not excited about. my mother cried and cried and cried. it was a difficult period in our relationship. i don't think all of my relatives know yet. a funny thing in a chinese family the way information is passed around. so he had these layers of culture. you have the chinese lady. you have the christian leader. and between the two i think there's sufficient shame that my parents haven't exactly broadcast it to everyone. >> you have written up about whether or not jesus really love you. first of all what is your christianity today? >> i attended a reformed church, and american church in brooklyn, new york, called old first and i'm an elder there. i think my faith, like that of

many people, goes through peaks and found. there's ups and downs to the there are good days and bad days. i think i would be lying to say that it was for me a consistent thing. it's a struggle, something you work on. you look for god whatever you can find evidence of god. you try to hang on to faith in those hard times, and then you rejoice when you find high points and moments, for me, which tend to be in nature, that feel triumphant and feel like they pulled me closer to something divine. >> are you a christian today? >> i would use the word christian. i think sometimes i'm troubled by the basics of the linkage. when we say evangelical what do we mean? when we say conservative what do we mean? it's hard to yeah, christian is the right term. i follow jesus as best i can. >> on your travels and in your search what did you find across america when it comes to established religions, established christian religions

and gay, and whether or not that's acceptable? >> if you look at american christianity today you find reactions across the entire spectrum. you find open hostility. you find great silent discomfort. you find embrace. it really depends on where you look. the thing about all of this is though, most of these people are trying their best to do what they think is right. i think the motive does matter when we are looking at the situation. most people are trying to be loving even if it doesn't always feel like love or look like love to some of the rest of us. >> can you give an example of? >> so, the hardest example for people to accept would be was pure baptist church which is -- when i went there i very much wanted to dislike the church. they are so angry. it seems like they are so hateful, and yet they tried to explain to me that what they're

doing is out of luck because they believe that they've been instructed to love their neighbor, and how can you love your neighbor more than to tell them that they are going to hell if they have a chance to turn around? so they believe what they're doing is a loving thing. that's really hard for the rest of us to accept. and i don't expect everybody to accept that without skepticism, but i think we have to consider where they say they're coming from. >> jeff chu, did you interview members of the phelps family, and were you out? >> i spent four days in topeka having dinner with the phelps, talking to them, worshiping with him in church, going on put this within. because i really wanted to understand what life was like in that congregation. they were very open with me, and i was open with them as much as they wanted to know. it's pretty obvious on social mean that i'm gay.

i can tell them straight out. they never asked. i assumed that they knew, but he was never an issue. it never really came up. i realized it didn't matter because what does it matter if i'm gay? i'm going to hell for some reason. >> what did you find in some of the mainstream christian religions? >> i got a lot of diversity actually. i think much of mainline christian in america has moved in a more progressive direction and more inclusive direction. but as you can see from the presbyterians bickering over what to do with the denomination and other denominations really struggling with this issue, there is no one set of opinion. the general trend, of course, as with the broader society is about the church is moving in a more liberal direction but that's not going to happen without fight. fights within families, fights within congregation, fights within denominations.

>> did you visit with the catholic church as well? >> i did not spend a lot of time focusing on the catholic church and here's what happens. as a reporter i can only write about the stories of people who are willing to talk to me. i spent a lot of time trying to find a gay priest was willing to open up. i think the price of that, because i was never able to find one, was that catholics are underrepresented in my book. the really funny thing about this is my husband is catholic, and i never thought to ask him for his story and don't have to book went to press. so that was kind of a fail on my part. >> jeff chu, there is a denomination called npc, our metropolitan communed the church which is the so-called gay church. did you visit with them and what did you find? >> i visited to. >> guest: .

the beautiful thing about. >> guest: it is a spiritual home for a lot of people who want still dying on to church. federal feel comfortable in regular churches. it was founded by a guy who grew up in -- pentecostal and became a preacher and you're an environment like that himself. so it's been a gift for an immense number of christians. it wasn't really the community that i felt was for me. i personally don't want to go to a church that is just gay people. i want a church that reflects my team unity and my church in brooklyn is old and young, gay and straight, black, white, asian, hispanic. we really are a cross section of brooklyn, and the neighborhood of brooklyn specifically with an overrepresented population of journalist. but that's the kind of churchill i was looking for. i found it. strong christians in the mcc a really warm welcome to there's something beautiful the way they

serve communion where they embrace the person to whom they are serving communion. so i really enjoyed it. i was critical of some elements of it, but i tried to be honest as a reporter and ask their as i could be with what i found. >> what is your day job? >> i'm an editor and also the religion writer for beacon, which is a new startup that seeks to try a new model in journalism. beacon reader.com. >> so the answer to the question that you asked on the cover of your book, does jesus really loves me, what's the answer? >> the answer is it depends on who you ask. i think every person you talk to is a slightly different image cobbled together from you learned as a kid, thing to read in the newspaper, and no person has the same view of jesus, of your jelly come of such rally. so it's so diverse.

so fun to explore but also very difficult. the issue is so emotionally charged spent what is your answer to that question for yourself the? >> the answer most days is that my jesus does love me, and by god,'s grace is big enough to handle the mistakes that i've made. >> and on those other days of? >> and on those other days i tried to look forward to the day after. >> jeff chu is the author of "does jesus really love me?: a gay christian's pilgrimage in search of god in america." does jesus really loving.com is the website. thank you for being on the c-span bus and spending time with a. >> thank you so much. >> is look. >> is look at some books that are being published this week.

>> look for these titles in bookstores this coming week, ma and watch for the authors in the near future on booktv and on the tv.org.

>> tom clancy, author of several best selling books, died on october 1, 2013. in 2002 he was our guest on in depth. >> there some magical process that it has, all of them they have these annoying little -- the kind of guy so interested, can i trust this kid with my insurance covered by take his money and giving it an insurance policy? somehow the military turns into responsible adults and is almost overnight, almost overnight. that responsible, serious adults, and how the military does it, how they can bottle it, they could sell and make an awful lot of money. because there's just some kind of magical process. at the end of the couple of years, these kids will go out and defend the country.

they are the defenders of our freedoms. they do pretty well. speak you said if he did not join the military because of your eyesight. >> my class is used to be -- i just went to johns hopkins a year ago and got my eyeballs lasered. so now i can see fairly well. >> if you had joined the military, what branch which you've signed up for? >> army. i wanted to be in the tanks. struck income if you have to fight you might as well do it sitting down with a five-inch gun. safer that way. >> could you see yourself writing anything else besides the cia and military stories? >> i don't do romances. i write the kind of books i like to read. spink you can watch tom clancy's in depth interview online at booktv.org.

>> this is the striking john f. kennedy library, this of course was a controversial building and a controversial decision. john f. kennedy had made a decision to locate his presidential library at harvard and when he was alive harvard didn't dispute that and they very much wanted a documentary archives their related to the kennedy presidency, a number of presidents have graduate from harvard over the years. they didn't want the museum particularly at harvard square because it attracts thousands to tens of thousands of school gym each year. they didn't want to congestion and the traffic. so that when universities got involved in deciding whether not to accept the presidential library, the big question is what do we do with the museum? spent overseeing the legacy of 13 president from herbert hoover to george w. bush, the presidential libraries today at 7:30 p.m. eastern part of american history tv this weekend on c-span3. >> up next on booktv, "after

words" with guest host lynn davis, director of the rand corporation, washington office. this week, eric schlosser and his latest book "command and control: nuclear weapons, the damascus accident, and the illusion of safety." in it the author of "fast food nation" argues that even the most unlikely vaccines with nuclear weapons can happen easier than we think. the program is about an hour. >> host: welcome. eric, here's the book. it's a fantastic cover. >> guest: i know, that's true. >> host: and its 600 pages page is. >> guest: a lot of that is footnotes. >> host: well, say four or 500 regular pages. so tell us in a couple of words what your reader needs to take away from your book. >> guest: the book tells a story. it tells the