>> overall it has gotten very little attention in the domestic u.s. press, but compared to what was the condition in somalia a year or two a go, this has been a truly outstanding success of a model based eight you, and a cheery. i would be interested in what you see is the lesson learned and what we should be expecting going forward for this as well. >> thank you very much for that question. i do think that the model is a model that can be used, some of

the lessons of i look back on this with a limited time in this office and greater experience on a consonant, i think that we do have to do a better job of ensuring that we provide the support that amazon needs to do its job. when i was in new york the foreign minister from uganda said that we have the people to put on the ground, but we still need the support to move those people around, the enablers and because of our budget cycles and how we got there, we are not always able to provide them with that support as early as they need that support. and we also want people to continue to support that end each year because of our funding cycles and sometimes there is a delay as to when we can get our support out to them. we talk about how we might use this model and obviously the inauguration was used, in less

than 18 months we were able to bring the country back and be a democratic country moving forward because an african led process supported by us. thank you. >> what sort of lessons might we learn about the stabilization and the transfer of security function to the national forces? >> i think as we look at the success, and there are many successes associated with it. one of the challenges is just pulling together all of the external supporters with all of the different coalitions of the willing and the countries to step up and answer the call and this managing across the complexity is one of the biggest challenges and can make things slower and less efficient than otherwise would be the case. i do think that you are seeing replication and it is successful

and especially if we talk about this in a different context where we have u.s. and others taking the lead with partners to pursue this army and this had regional forces and now as a u.n. mission that is being supported with external parties as well. i think that the replication is an indicator of the success and our part is really bringing the targeted training capacity and bringing in enablers, which was referred to and it was quite challenging, especially in an area of logistics, which is the true shortfall when you look across the many different missions on the african continent. the logistics capabilities of african partners themselves and the tools with which we are able to support them.

>> building on airlift capacity is a long-term goal that we all share. and in conclusion, how do you see this success in terms of security contributing to this picture that you mentioned any mention that they are inextricably intertwined. >> absolutely. maria is a perfect example of how one need security for development and also how development leads to greater security. so as we continue to push our development programs into south-central somalia, the opportunity is to help citizens gain greater confidence in both central and local governing structures and receive the services that are absolutely essential for their well-being and for their support for the move forward. this is supported by greater security and it is a hand-in-hand proposition that

going forward will be important that we are able to realize the gains from both security and development working together for peace and prosperity. >> thank you. >> thank you all. continuing on amazon, i was just looking at a map, the terms of the area in the country controlled by government forces, it is pretty small. and can you explain how far out of mogadishu does this actually go? how much are we actually controlling outside? >> including the security forces there. >> okay, so amazon has succeeded in doing essentially, taking away the revenue generation prospects for al-shabaab,

including mogadishu and so in focusing first on those population centers and liberating them from al-shabaab, that was a critical step taken in terms of weakening the sustaining capabilities, as you have seen on the map, the forces have since pushed out of both of those population centers farther into the countryside and there are swaths of the territory that are not under effective control of the central government at this point and there are court orders in between some of the major centers that are maintained and it is quite clear that there remains additional territory that is available to al-shabaab as a sanctuary and that is really the work ahead with amazon and somalia national army to continue to pressure them so they continue to fracture and continually get

displaced from the locations that they are currently occupying, which we saw over the weekend is a current mode for al-shabaab. >> is amazon engaged in counterinsurgency activities at all or is that just the security forces? >> it is pursuing this alongside the national security services. so it is both enabling one another and and they are operating together in the vast majority of things. >> in 2010 they wanted to changes from peacekeeping to peace enforcement. is that a distinction without a difference, or does that matter? >> i think that that refers to the rules of engagement and amazon at this point is operating with robust rules of

engagement where they are not a defensive course, but in offense of course. >> there is a transition happening quickly enough in terms of security forces. >> in my view, the transition is happening as quickly as possible, which by definition is the ability of the somali national army to take over is quite constrained at this point, the somali national army is about 17,000 strong at this point based on the count from the chief of defense, but of that, many are militia forces or other individuals who are under the banner of the small a national army and some have been trained and many have not, they have been trained by a variety of external sources and there are some major capability gaps

as far as the smiling national army's ability to step in and i think that we would forecast that it would be a period of time before this is ready to step up and take over the mission currently performed by amazon. >> you're talking about the government there that you mentioned, and the parties democratically elected as long as the president and it is something different, referenced as democratically elected. is it more of an appointment there by tribal elders? the president has been elected by the mp's, but how much legitimacy do we have going forward? >> to preference that there was some criticism a year or so ago that some of the slots were going for about $25,000 and there was some corruption

alleged. can you talk about that and what would you miss me legitimacy we have going forward? >> there have definitely been challenges of corruption in somalia through the years. that includes the list of benchmarks in the new constitution over the next several years. and this is historically a great deal of factionalism within somalia that would be important with the inclusive dialogue over the next 36 months to find a way forward and that kind of participation in the solution, this is one of the best opportunities and that kind of

planning will have to continue are you bringing regional entities and bring in a lot of the local governments that have been critical for holding communities together over the last several decades. but now need to come together under a number of a central and federated government. >> the president was elected by the parliament and elected or appointed? >> it was selected by the assembly process and then yes, they selected the president. as we geared toward the 2016 presidential elections. >> back to the security environment. it occurred last weekend. nobody faults that has not been successful. we didn't get our target there.

i'm sure that our commander has made the right decision. how does that affect our policy going forward and what challenges does not present to us to have another failed raid into the country. is this embolden al-shabaab moving forward? >> from my perspective, taking direct action is one element of multifaceted approach being taken vis-à-vis al-shabaab and the circumstances or under which it was pursued were outlined by the president and his national diversity speech and selected cases where i think more directly as indirect approach and the three major pieces of that. and i think one is continuing to support them and their activities against al-shabaab.

the second is working with the somali national security and their counterterrorism terrorism going forward. work that we are doing what the other partners in the region on a bilateral basis, whether it's directly with the kenyans or the ethiopians order anything else, all of them have faced various threats from al-shabaab based upon their willingness to participate in the amazon and several of them have borne the results in their territory. so a key part of this tragedy, vis-à-vis al-shabaab is the continued support with today's bilateral support in the region. >> thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you. mr. chairman, we think the

witnesses. it is my understanding from published reports that it didn't go for it because there was greater resistance and they had than they had anticipated originally. is that an accurate media depiction of what happened? >> senator, to discuss list, we would have to work into a different setting. could you say whether the reporting was accurate or not? >> i think to get into the operational details, they would require us to move into a different setting. >> i guess what you're saying is that we have to have information in a secure setting but it is okay if the media report

includes events and you cannot cooperate or deny this trait is that? >> that is correct. >> don't be surprised with the skepticism here about the activities you engage in and the fact was there is an intelligence failure or the mission would have been created and i guess maybe "the new york times", we will find that exactly why it failed it is something that we understand from this state of the union speech, the president obama seeks to repeal. how will terrorist groups like al-shabaab be targeted, and will these types of operations be justified in the future, and in

this way? >> senator, i believe going back to the earlier discussion about the direct and indirect approach at the present time, it remains in force and is available for the direct approach and the corollary to that is enabling regional partners whether it is the somali people directly or the regional payers who are willing to participate in the contributing countries of amisom or on a bilateral basis. that is a strategy in terms of disrupting al-shabaab. >> would this operation have been legal? >> senator, i am not prepared with a legal analysis with you today, but i can come back to you with a response on that.

>> is it your opinion as to whether it would be legal with the amf? >> i do not have any independent personal opinion to complement the legal analysis at this point. >> okay. is thomas greenfield, in somalia, it is my understanding that most of the work is being done by private contractors, is that true? >> we do have private contractors assisting us in somalia and we are using a mixture of that as well as direct support to the amisom and the other strategic partners such as the ethiopians and we also work very closely with after after calm and have some

support th afte. is this including the american troops? >> we do have an advisor working with a smaller government. and we also work with their military government doing training. and we sent people to do training with them. >> how do you maintain oversight with what these contracts are doing it there is no american military in somalia? >> we do send them in to monitor the somalis when we are able to travel when it allows us to travel inside. but when we are able to travel, we are able to do that and we

also work and monitor them through our operations and in nairobi as well. >> these contractors are often operating in what is effectively a combat zone. would you agree? >> occasionally it is a combat zone. >> okay, you spoke about the goal of normalizing our military, the military relationship with somalia. could you describe what that would look like? >> what i would hope for is the military to military relationship and it is my hope that there is enabling and we would have our military the regular programs, the same kinds

of programs that we view elsewhere in africa. it provides a direct training and support to the somali military and then there is a professional army that is able to provide security and has capacity to respond. >> on what grounds we decide to send contractors and is opposed by military? >> was a contractors do a better job? and what kind of that decision? >> we do a mix and we have always had contractors have supported our efforts. but in some places we do have the military. so it is not a decision that we would only use contractors. i think that contractors were simpler for us to use on this occasion. but at a point when the security situation changes, we certainly would look at other options.

>> so it is based on the security situation? >> i think that was part of the issue. >> well, if it's a security situation that would guide you rather to send the men, i imagine it was the security situation that allows you to keep them out and i think the witnesses. >> thank you. as the senator referenced on the a number of us have discussed, there have been discussions that call for a classified briefing and some of the intelligence gathered from there in the regional implications as well as i welcome the opportunity. >> can i just say that i am sure that the chairman understands the frustration and we read things in the media that are believed to be factual and we can't find out in an open session whether it's true or not and i think the american people

probably deserve to know if is carried out in the media. >> i suspect that we have brought our frustration out, and i do think that out tout the outset of the hearing, i express my gratitude for their ability to come today given the impact of the shutdown on departmental resources, preparation and otherwise and i do think it is appropriate for us to continue some of this line of dialogue in classified settings if we could as soon as possible. if i might, they have countered violent extremism in the jihads tendencies. could you say something about the small-scale projects that i believe have been the exemplary of this ongoing effort in the areas that have been secured through amisom ever tcr like the

situation from the long-term and. >> drank that that there is an opportunity to shower quick wins with what there is an in leaders report to and work with to identify the priorities and coexist with them that enables government doctors to have greater credibility with their communities and to align them with the central protest that of the laws and addresses things like additional schools and basic infrastructure. at the same time we are focused on what is a large population to provide opportunities to extremism and through the somali youth initiative, working to both provide secondary education opportunities and as well as economic options and ways for them to participate in civic

life. we think that this is absolutely critical, especially for those groups. with your permission i would also like to clarify the senators question about the democratic election of the president and the assembly and the constituent assembly was formed, then they elected the president and somalia is not currently able to have the kind of representative elections that we think about in this country. that is a part of the big effort over the next several years, to provide that kind of election commission and voter registration that they are simply not equipped to deal with right now. so there is a difference between democratically elected and elected to representative voting. >> that is right. >> i want to use the moment to clarify that. >> when he said that democratically elected earlier on, it is something that i have

agreed with. we are not at a point where we can expect anything else. but we can't lead people to believe that we have a democratically elected government. >> it wasn't every voter through the country, but across constituent assembly that could enable us to this important time. at the same time that we are working at the community level to an able those gains to be realized. >> the goal of the 2016 process is to ultimately get to a place for a legitimate national election as possible. >> that is right. >> universal suffrage. >> that is right, with the constitution and it is also the process of drafting the constitution and enabling a process of reconciliation and an inclusive dialogue, including an important player in all of this. >> a steady transition of lawlessness and violence to function with democracy as part of the objective of this hearing

to suggest this. you have just come back from the new deal conference and i'm interested in hearing about how the international community is coordinating the support for this ongoing transition and what you see as our role in the international community and how well coordinated it is towards the goals we have been discussing. >> i think this is an essential opportunity because it enables the international donor community to come together in a more coordinated way and to support a plan and a framework that is owned by the somalis. with the key priorities that were laid out, we are able to work together against those priorities and there are conversations, very vigorous conversations with the uk and other development partners on how to ensure that our support equals in the winds behind the key priorities. so there is a timing and an

urgency here but it's in these moments where there's a brush of confidence in the sense of possibility that we step forward in a coherent manner that moves us over a very ambitious timetable and it's important to grasp as they call this the golden hour of possibility and enable that turn into real results. >> thank you. and if i might, what is our overall strategy to help us better understand how to simultaneously strengthen ongoing somali led efforts and to coordinate the system, given that recent ad hoc efforts to reform federal states and with my impression, do you think there is progress toward for both but there is some tension between whether there is a centralized strong state or federalized structure and what

you see as our strategy at this particular part of the process? spam our primary goal is that it will be a strong federal framework that will allow the various components and various groups outside of the central government to participate in a process of governing the entire country of somalia and we do need a central government, to provide services that can develop the policies and strategies going forward that the government has to recognize the components outside of the central government. so we have encouraged cooperation and implementation and this is in close cooperation with the somali and we are very encouraged with further improvements along these lines.

the president has expressed his views that he is prepared to move forward in that direction, and we are backing him in those efforts. >> that is perfect, and i thank you very much. >> thomas greenhill, you mentioned $140 million -- i think he said the economic growth activities and democracy activities. could you give us further detail on where that is going? and who is administering that? >> go ahead. >> okay. >> i think you mentioned the figure of 140 million. >> that was going to our efforts to support the capacity of the somali national army and supporting training for that and also building a democratic institution that is being worked

with usaid. including our efforts with the army. >> okay, further detail, the democracy activity is part of this. >> we have a 64 million-dollar program for 2011 and 2012. that is working in some of the activities are already detail to help set up the constitution and support the move towards elections and that also includes work in somali with those government to support the very important advances they have already made on the democratic approaches and accountability to align their policies of the federal government and includes a lot of the work on setting up the independent election

commission and the electoral law and the mechanics to make the gains that we need in the next 36 months. >> okay, turning to somalia, making it sound as if they are okay with this arrangement and that is not the sons that i have received from them. they have -- they want to be recognized on their own. can you kind of explain the difference here? >> yes, that is the sense that we have gotten as well, that they want to stabilize areas that are under their control and we are following in the lead of the au and we have not recognize them as the government at this time because they have not made the recommendation. but we continue to support their efforts to provide security and services to the people that they are currently supported. >> you mentioned the funding to

help them and what is their understanding as to what they are to do with this money, and are they establishing their place in the federal system? because it sounds to me when you talk to them that they have a completely different idea of where they are going. what is your understanding? >> as i understand there is to need help to support the accountability and transparency that they have quite -- that they have appropriately made the dean's list and at the same time, we are doing it in a way that expressly indicates the goal of having that aligned with the central government in a centrally federated system. >> today except that? >> there are conversations ongoing. >> okay, just a general

observation. go ahead and stop. but we all know that this is tough work. this is a tough environment. you know, you have basically a lawless situation with no central government for 20 years. no one can expect that you would immediately transform into a flourishing democracy and we understand that here. but i get the sense from the testimony that painting a rosier picture is happening and i'm not sure that that does us any good as those who are left to authorize and appropriate money to sustain programs and i will be interested in the next panel to see their thoughts on that. but just to let you know that we recognize that this is tough and it will be a rocky road, but it doesn't do us any good to gloss over the difficulties and my suspicion is that the government

, we want them to succeed and we recognize them. but they are likely large swathes of the country that do not recognize the government as legitimate and we need to recognize that and move forward. but, you know, it is a tough road and another we are doing the best that we can. but it is likely a more difficult situation and perhaps that we are told. with that, i think you. >> thank you, senator. senator mccain? for this panel, we have another will join some conclusions to this hearing and i want to thank you for your testimony are very hard work and there has been significant progress made. and relative to what it was two years ago. allis state characterized by widespread piracy and humanitarian crises and the utter absence of a functioning federal government to the

senators point, great progress has been made, but significant hurdles and challenges remain and i look forward to working with you closely as we articulate together a coherent u.s. strategy moving forward to take advantage of this opportunity. i would like to invite our second panel to take the places in front of us. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] connacht. >> i would like to welcome our second panel today, first-come a senior research fellow and founder of the heritage research foundation in mogadishu and the

director of the international crisis group and i would like to invite each of you to make an opening statement if you would like to the committee. >> doctor? >> thank you, senator coons. members of the subcommittee, it is an honor to appear before you today and as has requested in your invitation, i will focus my remarks to defeat that terrorist group and by full written statement could be included in the record. >> without objection. >> has been weakened and however it retains the capability to contact the u.s. and partner nation interests and this is vividly demonstrated in september when al-shabaab linked to stormie wesley shopping complex shooting innocent civilians. without additional effort to defeat al-shabaab, it is a matter of time before they undertake the deadly attacks and al-shabaab currently led by this

group has controlled much of central somalia since 2006 and however over the past two years, the tide has turned dramatically and amisom has partnered with the smalley national army and they have pressured him to withdraw from mogadishu in 2011 and sees neighboring towns. in 2012, ethiopia and kenya also worked with militia to liberate the towns and clan leaders and local administrations have also mobilized to resist this movement. and in response to the superiority in ethiopia, they have avoided confessional engagement and they have shifted forces to safe havens that lie out of the region, this includes these locations to launch hidden attacks and place ied's and carry out assassinations and suicide bombings.

it is comprised of hard-liners and at the same time the regional governors are essential components to this network and they maintain that control over the local population and allow terrorist training camps to operate and raise funds through taxes and extortion and manage the clan relations. as the attack shows, they also retain a significant external capability in these individuals with somalis are only loosely under the control. they are dedicated to exporting mess across east africa and working with affiliates in kenya and tanzania. becoming part of this, they have personalized command and control and senior leaders who disagree with this decision. long-standing tensions between the settlement and the deputy broke into open violence in june of 2013. many hope that internal conflict

would weaken al-shabaab, but this is not the case. for several years they have been building this primarily based around us and taking control of the groups funding. their long-term strategy does remain a matter of debate and the group may be playing a waiting game retreating from large battles and using terror attacks to stay relevant for as long as possible. with hopes that the wider political context in east africa will change allowing al-shabaab to research and this would be the case if the smalley government fails if they can align with clan-based opposition groups or if new regional crises force amisom contributing countries to part with some i have. the hard-line supporters have no illusion that they can impose this if amisom and regional forces continue to make the progress that they have done with the federal government were to stabilize the area. in this case, they may be talking about a jihad is trouble

for as long as possible. to conclude, although they have indeed lost control of key cities, they have recalibrated their approach and remains an enemy. the international partners need efforts to roll back the group while consolidating security gains in this and this requires a combination of effort. first, we must provide the regional defense against al-shabaab including amisom and ethiopia it a critical capable and professional national security structure in somalia that can fight side-by-side with regional partners. and third additional diplomacy informant in tran-four and eight are new to support the federal government and the local administrations with which it is working to oppose al-shabaab and a federal structure and they need to negotiate the deals to allow the federal structure to

function. finally they must continue supporting somalia's neighbors, particularly kenya, but also tanzania and other countries that serve as hosts to movements in the region. mr. chairman, and the opportunity to testify and i look forward to your question. >> you very much. we look forward to the opportunity to ask questions. next? >> chairman, ranking member, thank you very much for the opportunity to participate in this important panel of this critical juncture in smalley's history. one year after the formation of the first nontraditional government in over 20 years, there is reasons to be cautious for the smalley people are more determined to read claim their dignity and their place among the community of nations. including across the country with hope and signs of economic migrants that are reemerging in

returning in large numbers, bring with them skills, business opportunities, and a sense of normalcy. this is where the issue comes in and it is important for the united states to support this to the people of somalia. significant parts of somalia are also enjoying relative peace and stability and government. with regards to security gains, and the danes are less encouraging. despite losing control, they are a major threat from where i came from just two days ago is under assault. a key challenge is the chronic weakness of security and command and control that is demonstrably weak due to fragmentation of militia forming security forces and training especially on the protection of vulnerable citizens remains uncoordinated with many countries running

various programs and this does not reflect the regional diversity of the smalley people and a much-needed legitimacy. u.s. government has provided significant struggle with security security forces and those is literally all that is standing between the class of the federal government and the u.s. government has much utilized to support innovatively, including counterterrorism measures and provisions of ammunition is necessary for some time and now there is a greater need for strategic partnership. resources must be channeled with professional and accountable identities with community services that have both qualitative and quantitative advantage over the enemy. they have done an excellent job of recovering the regions, but they cannot become a substitute for indigenous forces and

ultimately defeat al-shabaab. this inextricably weakness which is why partially somalia adopted a federal model of government nearly 10 years ago. but a consensus on which remains elusive, excessive governments have translated this vision and are frustrated with the lack of progress at the national level, communities are taking matters into their own hands and are carving out this anti-american policy which has led to direct u.s. engagement sends the wrong signal by the international community promoting sectarian policies and a continuous federal government. the process of this faces three enormous challenges, first the provisional part is dictated by the federal government of somalia and power between the

meaning of this as broadly interested, many of whom aren't legitimately nervous about an overly centralized state and this is compounded by the absence of a judicial branch that can interpret these constitutional provisions and second, state institutions that are supposed to play a leading role in the national dialogue and suitable structure are yet to be established. the constitution calls for the formation of nearly a dozen independent commissions and half of which are instrumental to the process and the interstate commission and the implementation commission. these delays are inexcusable and the federal government garnered this on the smart people in september 2012, and it also won the backing from the international community, including formal recognitions for the u.s. government for the first time in 20 years, mostly support from turkey and the

african peace keeping mission. many somalis believe that the federal government has fallen significantly short, abusing the positive momentum with key domestic actions, including traditional civil society. in neighboring countries are sometimes seen as undermining state efforts by encouraging and sometimes helping with the formation of entities to suit their own interests. while ethiopia and kenya face real threats from somalia as we have seen in the recent attack in nairobi and their unchecked interference is stabilizing the country with recent fragile gains. the provision envisions elections to take place toward the end of 2016. this is not impossible. while this is not impossible, and is highly improbable given the magnitude of taxes ahead and it should remain an admirable goal, but that we must not

include this, but rather a means toward the more vital objective or state. that includes finalizing the constitution, and adopting political party laws. the challenges facing this are tremendous and not insurmountable. first it is a deeply flawed document and this includes a direct collision course. and this includes the urgent assistance in this regard and priority must be given to the formation of the commission and boundaries, once established, they will need considerable resources to engage in the national dialogue. and there are a number of institutions relative to the second provide essential support in the area.

second, assistance to the smalley government must be contingent upon measurable gains and held accountable with the own national plan, if none of the commissions is established by early next year and this includes the governments commitment to offer something more than their predecessors. the u.s. and its allies should develop mechanisms to hold government accountable as a way the way it has always been and will continue to be a powerful force for the program. the role of civil society is currently absent and the tools must be given to effectively monitor the program and the government. and as an important ally to both kenya and ethiopia, the united states has a moral obligation to exert this to allow the smart people and their governments to engage in a national conciliation and interference galvanizes the somali community.

including both countries in mitigating this end we must realize that only a strong and vibrant state is the greatest year-to-year of security in the region. and it is easy to dismiss it but as those of us who have given up the comfortable life and returned home can attest to progress, and it is happening right now. somalia has made a profound leap from where they were three and a half years ago when experts are going back home. at the time, somali controlled almost 5% of the entire nation and it was disrupting global shipping and the very notion of government was contested across the country. but with the support of international partners like the uk and turkey and others.

it is now relentless with what has legitimacy and resources needed to finish this. i think you and the subcommittee for this opportunity i'm happy to answer any questions. >> thank you very much. >> thank you senator coons, thank you for the opportunity. we've been working since 2002 and we frequently travel for research purposes. conditions in smalley have improved and amisom now and kenya is helping the national army and various foolish as, and somalia also has a provisional government that is better than previous administrations with the international communities that recognizes government in

september they pledged $2.5 million in support. however, the federal government can only control is in parts of the south and somali is down but not out. it includes high-profile targets. the government also anticipate security forces and elsewhere that is likely for some time to come. amisom for the government cannot impose a peace or stability. it is only possible through the nationwide process of negotiation and improved governance. it is arguably the most intractable issue is the question of federalism. simply put, serious agreements were made between those who would like to see somalia become a state, one that consented to the neighbors, and those that are dominated by a group of plans during this era.

in this includes the just barking on the establishment of the federal state. federal government quickly run into trouble with the issue of federalism, which is exacerbated by ambiguity about who leads the process of creating this. neighboring countries also have significant security interest in somalia. beyond the somalians very much when this and this includes ethiopians who have a historic rival. they have this and it is a strong proponent of federalism and a seemingly logical bottom-up approach. however, many somalians treat this as a ploy and are wary of

international pressures to of soft power. it was created to nearly half a million somali refugees and it subsequently joined the own interest and kenya has started working on mobility and not the federal government. hooghly kenya is looking for an exit, but this includes skepticism according to the u.n. monitoring group, politicians and officers are earning money from the trade, including southern somalia because of a large oil and natural gas deposit. al-shabaab is aggressively trying to turn the local population towards christian kenyan occupiers in the attack to trigger an attack to that end. beyond a reasonable space, a number of countries have taken an active interest in somalia in

this allows them to play different states against each other, particularly muslim states against ethiopia. and it is a host of the same organizations including the u.n. and the regional organization in east africa with no clear division of responsibilities or for the lead actor. the greatest problem was an arguably remains the overlapping mandate of the au and the u.n. and they have a peace enforcement responsibility which having been in the british over the last four years, it is a major political factor. the u.n. has a political mandate and is very much involved in security reform and addressing the issue of federalism. both are headed by special representatives, but that they in themselves have no clear instruction on how to share

responsibilities. westgate molokai, much has been written about the latest terrorist attacks, and it is rather important that this has long been expected. it is important that the kenyan government prevent a backlash against the smalley and population. what should they be doing with this crisis group? first of all, it is just important to prioritize nationwide negotiations and insist new state it here to a rule-based process and it should continue to spark regional medications and this must link reconciliation to ensure they are adequately represented in the government. currently it is very difficult for the agency to provide assistance in these areas come out yet it is areas where assistance can be of the greatest benefit in congress should consider supporting

managing this for symbolic projects with the periphery. congress should also note that the 2016 elections are not far away they are already behind schedule and elections should be quickly funded by donors. more attention should also be given an it should be given quiet placement with such reconciliation, both with fractions and a national level between clans and it should provide the reconciliation that can include larger regional conferences. it should also provide the new u.n. mission with all that is necessary to coordinate this effectively and it should insist the federal government does this effectively as well. the state department should also start working with amisom to clearly articulate a multiview

strategy and they should be part of a professional next planned national army. including monitoring revenue collection and this is an oversight supported by experts to ensure that it is used equitably. in conclusion, it remains a weak and fragile state and its sovereignty is recognized and is far from certain. yet it is at the inflection point with the hope of achieving sustainable progress, if the international community includes the government challenges and i think you and look forward to your questions. >> thank you.

let me start with the last of many recommendations for us. first come asking a question about the ideas and what are the strategic challenges that you face in all three of you had comments about federalism. my sense is that al-shabaab has been principally financed when they controlled parts of the coastline and to be extractions of the communities that they control. i think it was recently described on how this helps finance them. what should we be doing here to ensure that they lose the financial operations, and what do you see as the most important strengthening to carry out the information of stabilizing the

country to make possible a transition probably representing a professionalize smalley national forest. i'm interested in all three of your answers to that set of questions. >> thank you. >> as i mentioned before, the trade is actually banned by the u.n. security council. i think that the united states should do more to force its partners in regards to prohibitions and i think that the real challenge is that a point where it is part of no longer pushing us farther out and neither provides this increasing the capacity to improve its ability to reach

out, or i think more needs to be done on the political side to try to stabilize somalia from a political perspective. >> how we reduce this financing, i mean, i think that the first thing is that we need to know exactly where the financing is coming from and the conventional belief was that it was mostly coming from the city that it controls and the resources that it controls and now that that is gone, i think that many of us are wondering whether the financing still seems to be coming through. part of the answer lies with controlling a considerable part of land in an attempt to try to recapture that. but in relation to this, i want

to emphasize the importance of creating a security force of it that is ultimately bite is considerably cheaper, which is part of this, up until this moment. but i think that a serious attempt to be made both by the government and the primary and that is why have rebuilt this in the sector. >> what time i do think it's possible to rebuild a credible national security force? >> it is certainly going to take a considerable amount of time in my view and i think that this is both in terms of the time that it could take and also in the kinds of numbers that we need and we have hundreds of thousands of forces created in afghanistan. somalia has 18,000 security

services, half of which are engaged with individuals and the installation. so clearly half of them are incapacitated from their main task of dealing with al-shabaab. >> so fortran amisom to be successful, several of you have recommended greater force recommended capabilities including the airlift and a few my comment about what amisom needs to be successful, we need to do to further restrict the resources of al-shabaab and what does this look like with incredible smalley forces? >> thank you, senator. starting with the issues of funding, it is when the movement controls the single largest foreign currency earner for the group and also included taxing

markets and extorting money from businesses which otherwise could not operate. but it remains a tax trade at the source of production rather than at the source of distribution and in this sense, they have a control that is really critical in this affords them the opportunity and this is also still making revenue in the charcoal business. in that sense, this includes more operations to dislodge them and they are really going to be the best and fastest way and nonsense. it is absolutely true that amisom needs force multipliers and additional transport and additional soldiers in order to undertake the movements.

the forces are limited to the same number that they had when they only controlled the city of mogadishu but they are spread out in multiple locations and there are many other cities and they are stuck using that limited number of his sources and the fastest way for them to actually free up the forces and to be able to deploy them would be if the federal government worked with them to craft consensual government in the area. local forces, particularly the somalian national army that provides this and as well as them taking the part of this as well as other squirrels in the process. >> okay on federalism, there seems to be a real tension with strong government to be able to resist intrusion from ethiopia,

kenya, one perception goes, and on the other hand there is a suspicion under this, and a government because of the different cultural and political traditions across the country. and managing these with a constitution with what the federal structure should look like, it is quite difficult. it is very difficult from our own articles of confederation, but there are striking similarities in moving towards the healthy functioning national government for purpose of the security. taxation and control of trade is necessary, but there are significant internal concerns that mitigate against a strong commitment. what role should the u.s. be playing in advancing the federal structure and dual track

herdingmac and what do you recommend for the u.s. policy with regard to federal implementation going forward, if you could? >> thank you, senator. the fact is that the smalley federal government is eight key actor going forward in making decisions for the establishment of a true federal system that actually provides some degree of convergence between the local actors in major towns across the regions and the central government. but the somali federal government is currently only one actor on the scene. we are talking about the locations where kenya and other forces are operating, if we are talking about cases where we need to fight them, there are other actors concerned that has been assessed. this is part of working very

closely with ethiopia and it is the administration and also the self-declared independent state of this. there are other local and administrations with other movements or other sub based administrations and these are actually facts on the ground and there has been a great deal of concern that the u.s. dual track approach was going to reinforce these and in some way dismember smalley and it was going to make it a week or country and the fact is that 25 years of war has decentralize them radically and made it a remarkably weak country and a dual track approach allows the united states to engage both at the capital level and at the local administration level at the same time to promote an agenda of convergence and maybe the language needs to be changed at this point in time, but that ability to support both simultaneously is what is required to promote these

power-sharing and resource sharing deals internally within this in-between and between that town in the central government as well. >> is a good question and i think it's important to highlight that the smalley people wherever they are today do want a some sort of a federal structure and it's unclear in their mind and we are actually engaged in research looking at this and what we found was there are four basic things in the debate on federalism. everyone wants to elect his or her national leaders and they want to get government closer to where they are and certainly they want an equitable sharing of natural resources. unfortunately they would like to see government intrusion upon the individual individual and group rights and we believe that these are the four issues that

can help push for the debate and framework in somalia and what could be part of this. i think the first thing is the building and the formations and the boundaries and ultimately the interstate commissions and i think what these three commissions can then do with expertise from the u.s. institutions that are capable is to lead a national dialogue and at the moment there is no dialogue about the national level and mostly advanced group or individual interests and i think what needs to happen is a national understanding. when we interviewed people if they understood options with the evolution of power, most people did not understand this. so i think a civic education

process is really needed. but that needs to happen a long time with the commission. and this includes the finalization of the provisional institution which is contradicting this in many ways and i think that the three steps are a strong starting point. of course, it is unrealistic to expect that they will have a clearer picture from now, but i think that we could be at a better place at some point from now. >> as we know in the united states, this remains to be a contentious issue and i would agree that perhaps we need to recast the approach and the parallel approach. i think the important point that i would make is that if the money cannot go to mogadishu alone, it stays in mogadishu and is currently doing all of the

progress that we are seeing because it includes all the resources that are being pledged that are largely part of this. i think when the federal government is trying to do things, it is easier to do stuff in the capital that would be to do places far away from especially when they don't have links to these kinds of local and administrations and it continues to be as well. this definitely benefits from these sanctions and one of the biggest problems that we have is that while it is somewhat more stable and it is arguably less of a safe haven, the fact that it is being dominated by a single clan allows them to recruit from those who feel that they are not being adequately

represented by the administration and including waiting to see those political sanctions come to the floor and using that as a recruiting tool to rebuild the bridge. thank you. >> thank you for your answers to that question. thank you for your patience. >> in particular federalism, you had mentioned, you kind of addressed it just now, your remarks that the provisional constitution is deeply flawed and contradicts itself and there are a lot of aspects of that. is that right? >> it is the most important element what really contradicts this with the federal government, in that the division of power is not cleared in a document.

in the provision can be improved. >> you mentioned four things that you think are expected of people out of a central government. those apply to the folks in somalia as well? because it sounds to me as if speaking with some of their representatives, but they don't want to share in the country's resources and they have their own. they want nothing to do with it in the rest of the country. am i off base or is that the assessment? >> i think seeking an outright secession has been a remarkably interesting job of laying the foundation for this with some flaws. but it is not seeking secession from the rest of the country but it does, like other regions in somalia, we are under the

federal government and it is very much carrying this out entirely from the federal government. and again, this is because of the vacuum that existed with the federal government. and i do think that if given this sort of effort to clarify the institution and begin this, i think there is an opportunity for engagement with other emergency in an existing members. >> the last panel was talking about the government and it is a democratically elected government. it is not quite that simple. how is it viewed with the rest of the country. going back to 1998 or so was a first attempt to appoint traditional elders with a

constituent assembly of some wit this experience and it did not take hold. what makes this different here and why is this government going to be viewed as anything but a last attempt? >> , or is it? >> well, i think, or i would agree with everyone, that there were very significant collection processes and i think that that is a greater attempt to ensure that at least the majority of the elders who are at this assembly, who then selected the president was somewhat more represented. ..

>> we seem to have backed a horse with this government if it doesn't take place what is our position? what do we do? mr. aynte?

>> elections are not impossible but highly improbable as the understand elections we make look like what 2012 was called we might have elections in parts our more stable than others but considering the slow pace of progress over the last year and the work that needs to be done and would be pleasantly surprised if they take place in 2016. what are the options after that? it depends what those in somalia want to do going forward of course, not many look for word to the extension no one wants to hear that but there has to be some sort of a selection process to bring the country to the next level but the

reason why this government we have been hopeful than the previous is people see this as one step to a greater goal of consolidating of what has been made over the years as part of the process. >> with regard to the failed raid last week, the last panel did not want to go there, what are the implications for the future? does this simpleton the elements we don't want to wimbledon? what are the practical effects? and did it surprise you when they launched the raid when we did it? >> i think the most important recent developments do exacerbate the threat at the moment is the attack and we should not let the events over the

weekend overshadow that tragedy and the precedent that a tax set for the edgy hottest within the east and africa region but potentially on a global scale. not to undertake a suicide bombing but a commando raid against civilian targets to kill such a large amount of people in the small time. i do believe this has sent a signal to leadership whether or not he was the author of the operation it sets up a signal that also bob visit and al qaeda affiliate's that needs to be taken very seriously and his leadership is not in question if they can launch these attacks. so the larger insurgency movement that gives those extremist to operate to prevent them to hold space in somalia is the critical

element. like the operation that is reported to of taken place targeting specific individual leaders that could do some temporary damage to the group with jay and immediate operational plan but only by removing the safe haven to have a less stable government to address many of the intentions that undermine the support for extremist. that is the only way to reduce the threat of longer-term. >> my time is up. >> thank you senator flake for your engagement but i have many more questions i may ask lurch sugh poillon dash one or two but it suggests that we now face the time pressure to support

an expansion of the reach at the same time running against the clock to transition into a legitimate somali forces as it has been made possible by an external multinational force the more that creates the opportunity for improvement for them to pass this with there them the force so do you agree? out pressing is this for regional security? >> senator given the length of time it will take to build up a professional and sustaining a somali national security force and intelligence components and policing component it is urgent we begin work on this today. the same time it is urgent over the next several

years, at least five coming of to continues significant support for the african in commission and tell the somali forces come on line to takeover the static security positions that the amazon holds. if they would be today the small federal government would likely fall very quickly that is because the somalia national army is an amalgamation of different clans that would report to war lords for privilege get the various brigades to make up the army today it is quick to identify which were llord and which faction they used to belong to. their level of nationality there interoperable liddy is remarkably low. and it is funded by the united states and its european partners is crafted from one plan.

said to you -- we need quickly to expand recruitment take the militia from the other area either a part of an independent administration and use a salary payments to a degree in international force to over time develop something professional that will take several years. >> the issue has been a concern ward is the of wool clothes and how does the economy and is the growing capacity what you think we can and should do is a sustained the pathways for

legitimate government? >> also somalia is larger than all international a combined with 1.$5 billion per year coming out through the middle east and africa there are small agents gathered around the rose said the movie back so it is the most important lifeline that they have. if they have legitimate concerns both here in the united states, the u.k., but to work as porters to try to create a framework to continue to send this

legally to the somali people but the alternative is if they go ahead with it than that promise to shut down the companies said the you pay the alternative is that many people go where underground and our ability to see the activity of money transfer from the west to somalia to become more constrained. this is an urgent matter as well as security here for the united states. >> some spoke about the model of the african led in direct multilateral as a possible role model from

amazon succeeds or fails and is like the attack did nairobi puts pressure on pardners like kenya and did uganda how vital is a for our interest for somalia's future that amazon succeeds and the regional partners get bilateral support from the united states to be engaged in this fight and not withdraw? >> as i mentioned in my testimony that absent it would collapse but to push out shebat back to use the enormous cost. i fake to some degree of the

military operation still lacks the capacity to make this both in integrated and military operation when we have created this hybrid from the political mandate and what has a military mandate and it has been difficult to build those organizations together sometimes it don't get along and currently the un has transitioned to a new mission with the new secretary or special representative man that was just established in june for as to see how that will work if he does have instructions from the u.n. security council to cooperate.

they're not very clear as it mentioned in my testimony. a and remains a work kim progress. unfortunate defeat by colleagues would agree ultimately the solution needs to be a political one. amazon needs to work within the framework to achieve that goal to meld the two having to continue to be a challenge. >> just one question. with regard to the diaspora 1.$5 billion per year? what is the feeling katy give a sense of what they're feeling? >> i know it is not

monolithic but give me some sense. >> most people in somalia but in huge numbers people have realized if higher expectations than realistic. with slow progress but many continue to be optimistic and fully engaged in what is going on but with the political structure across the country to the federal government that it is actually made up of something like 60 years 70 percent so the diaspora are vital to socially and

economically and with our a gauge to hold the government accountable. >> thank you. >> fate you to our witnesses today the first and second panel we begin at the impact of that government shut down on the capacity of different and our security missions i recall witnesses could come testify today also with senator flakes mission and did is parker are going rule and to i won't keep them open intel friday of this week some members of the committee could said it richer than the questions were for the record do with that this hearing is adjourned.

>> she was a lifelong baseball fan ever big boston

red sox living in massachusetts when they went to washington they have allegiance to the team down there the washington senators. we have a number of season passes she was given by the american league. usually issued in though wallace door of the pocketbook a certificate issue is given by the boston red sox and the of war has washington nationals to designate her the first lady of the of what house

>> kennedy could not figure out whether churchill was teasing him or so drunk he forgot the day before. they disliked each other intensely but the war was over. and churchill said to kennedy, he held out his hand and said i am so sorry for your loss. joe, jr. had died during the war. and giorgio was sincere and he said was it worth it battle and will work to had destroyed evidence save democracy and saved western civilization.

and they played the game of hatred upon him. >> we did the briefs on behalf of the republican national committee in their very pleased with the results of the argument this morning. is disappointing to the court fusees an aggregate limits that only support

nine candidates for only upon a of the f street parties but as iowa -- with the constitution first amendment to be sustained under the current supreme court. relive forward to a decision ryan beck court to help restore balance and power political system for caring and not it is a candidate to what they can except but the result is voters are being forced to give money into supertax, not for profit and five and a 27 that is much less accountable and candidates of political parties and by forcing many to go in that direction we have a less healthy system. with the aggregate limits we

can see more khanate khanate, national and state parties run more money. rather than the canned a sample of zero parties themselves. >> i am from democracy 21 campbell one of the attorneys a couple of important points of light to make, first of all, justice scalia asked how much went to candidates and parties a and how much to outside groups. let's be very clear. candidates and parties

whitney's the overall arguments can they spend 83 percent of the money it so they're dealing with billions of dollars of the overall limits for some of this change is about '01 billion dollar contribution or whether or berndt to the fate could be but whether speaker can set up a joint fund-raising committee to solicit 2.$4 million of president obama in 2012 will raise top 72,000 a contribution for joint fund-raising committees and could raise 1.2 million this

is precisely the kind of contributions that the supreme court has ruled for 40 years to create opportunities for corruption and the one other question raised by justice scalia was interesting. the supreme court first declared limits on outside groups unconstitutional because there is no risk for corruption. but now justice scalia appears to think there is just as much risk without side spending as commission envisions it.

but that is out with the court has said. , roofs and can make unlimited expenditures but since then the reprieving put -- supreme court have repeatedly said contributions to candidates and parties to create the opportunity for corruption and can be limited. that is the issue facing the court today. this is a corruption case. if the supreme court were to strike down the overall contribution limits, we are bound to use the 1 million and $2 billion contributions solicited by the most powerful office holders in washington given by doctors to create opportunities for the quick that they have

said over four decades hevea limited but is there any way but if they want to give a few more contributions? a couple of visitors. he just cannot give it to hunter dollars to eastern them from a each as

distinguished between the first amendment rights of a donor that is in direct and the first amendment rights of the splendor that is direct expression. this is a line drawn by congress that cancer of the change that space we you cannot get rid of the aggregate limits are candidates without creating the opportunity to ever joint fund-raising committee and mr. -- with the 2. $4 billion check. >> but we finish. >> but it is not true. >> a joint fund-raising canby complete it with caution and shins can be give brendon sources said. justice any -- kennedy

supported those conditions because he said they create the opportunity or quid pro quo and zero. >> before a joint fund-raising committee where you are here to strike down mccann judicial limits in this case. >> from the cetera of competitive politicians. >> erev murphy's. it dispelled the usual way. >> the thought the court was

well prepared today and we had a great chance to make the argument we wanted to make henry told the court in the system like this what we can make unlimited expenditures it does not continue to make sure they have these aggregate limits in the most transparent way possible to the candidates the of the parties. as we said as well it doesn't make sense to continue to have limits where somebody has nine candidates but with the ted that there is something in permissible about that. we have a great chance to make those arguments and the core ast wonderful questions parker at the end of that target. >> to say we should go along with the system just because it is a law for 40 years? day wanted reversed?

>> we don't feed buckley needs to be reversed but with this case we think the limits our unconstitutional and to the current system because they impose impermissible burgeons to contribute to 10 candidates instead of nine or the key in the kind of expenditures per card of the getty to stage the entire system to hold these limits constitutional but today be revealed there are questions about the system itself. >> if the aggregate limits are in prostitution because they limit that people you can give to. >> it is not about the base contributions limit. that is identified by that direct relationship between candidates even people give cut gentians and egest

doesn't seem to be a rationale for that in a constitutional manner you allow people with more money to have more free speech. >> we want everybody to have free speech is in the forsythe and you hope to make his pitchers he is competing with a value with a share but that houses said that according to retrieve themselves. >> or the restrictions of the way they can buy what

the difference is stocky raff a prominent candidates stewart. >> but what is the answer? if you win it means more monday inform or peul but they're doing that in the most transparent way possible where we already have disclosure rules and. >> by a name is rare friend did i come here from the bready campaign stirs in an

end and but also here with the bow with a fancy lunch from the grass roots to be clear is way you look katy ecologists in all its majesty io's to cost destitution that this person who owns more speech than it would remind that. we have seen this court overturning shall be a ruling that allows people of the bearded ways to roll back the voting rights into only be challenged on the back end. i am from the self you receive what is happening as soon as shelby was passed in fact, we have seen in the furthest brodie -- friday down but we have cede to

music and influence but when many influences who begins in the state capital bow with the amounts of very been spent on the set the attacks on public education, voting rights, and employ it be our meeting but one theme in this spivvy epithet is sold piece by piece but it is

found in the day as chapter one but then to be really in favor of mccutcheon is undermine the average democracy allow yet to be bought and paid for by the highest bidder and that is the majesty of the law of love to ensure the homeless for seven had as much free speech as the wealthy person i am a leader of the world and a movement in both carolina. >> i am president for the said letter for issuing

policies six. >> but then to the phones necessary to mount hairs russia -- but the idea of the giant fund issue here but the law already allows the student to ask for over $4 billion from political action committees and it does not have been. second, with mccain-feingold there is a limit how much can be solicited by a eight elected official in that is not challenged by this case. we feel there is a good chance that limit will survive. in other words, they will not be able to ask for the

multi-billion dollar contributions as he alleges. said helps incumbents because studies have shown their beat -- challenger is a rely on a large part of their funding because people like that are left to the knee as well with about someone who wants to support candidates who want to support environmental regulations or control? i told her to choose between giving to environmental candidate or the get control. you cannot support all of them. >> i say if we need to have dolls for example, the

approach would be to save the elected officials could not ask for more than the current living today. actually think the law requires that now but if it doesn't it could easily be passed just to target that and not the ability of people like mr. mccutcheon and others to support candidates they believed in. >> i guess i am asking the current scheme had corruption or not? >> i think it may help keep corruption because the way to get them that will be a cramp in your office. the first amendment is to allow a speech and that is ultimately what is protected against corruption.

by the press and the people we have to be careful to limit either. >> think jack. >> i am president of public but with representatives the case is about corruption corruption, pure and simple as real people understand to say will them but it is a certainty of the supreme court decides this case that we will see more corruption corruption, more legalized bribery will become the norm. the there is any doubt how this will go and the we now have a couple hundred people

pulling together from the trade association to funnel it to through the organization to funds but to overturn this decision means overturning the core precept into could only hope not to do that. >> put a more money back into the political parties come in this case could potentially put more money back into the hands of the other are in senior democratic party organizations instead of the truth. >> there will be more money for the political party. i piggery the spender's seem

willing to right to get the bare taxes they need a and it does that apply to citizens united. >> with the group of membership organization 7.5 million americans all came together from the oldest and smallest. >> telekom together but americans are outraged about the dominance of big money with their current government politics and policy. we see succession americans say their elected representatives our more responsive to the big money donors and the voters of the public interest. aid of than sale large campaign contributions are

blocking our government from focusing on fixing the current event to affect our lives like climate change your health and the village -- mobility issues. this causes the american people to have the lowest in historical record and it is court -- important the court uphold the attribute to protect from even more dominance from big money. a 84% of those candidates elected last year raised more money for the 1% but with the billion dollar a democracy we find that system is already benefiting with house incumbents raising 1.7 million in the

300,000 from the challengers and over $7 million. also we heard what some of them said you must have the bad that the american people do. they didn't get made in a vacuum separate and apart. we saw but they thought all of that mandate would be accused on dash excuse but cent after an explosion. right now we try to go baxter to fix the revelations spee twi and. >> and how all off'' -- that they wanted nothing? but over 3.$5 million to visa elucidating and ended

received to cause a corruption risk. but looking at such detail to consider the real world impacts of their decisions. >> but we are open for sale with private economic interests better distorting policy to cause the voices of the average american to be absent from public policy debate. it shows government is so much more responsive to their big donors they and it is actually blocking the majority of the african-american community and almost the minority to signed -- find themselves in the bottom third so

government is not responsive to their public preferences. it is a crisis of confidence and it is time the supreme court make good decisions for the american people. think you very much. >> i am with the center for responsive politics in washington and nonpartisan research organization that does work in this area. there is a fair amount of confusion of the mechanics how the movement of money can no curb between organizations without a restriction and the impact of these large contributions are allowed if this part of the law is refers. we have many experience with that the way the process works and we know how the chancers can be done via try to do that in detail we would like to know how that process would devolve. if this part is overturned.

second question of the system that we have really is at a disadvantage. mccain-feingold allegedly would have destroyed the parties availability to raise funds because now they can raise some limited funds but we're very active to raise small contributions and they have been unable to raise more money and there is no reason to sink this provision he sits to be in the system but. >> hello.