you have said that rain falls on the just and the unjust. and we know that our -- is just. we know there are a number of people standing out here in the rain today because there were people out of work. because there are people who are suffering. we just ask that you would protect those who are vulnerable , that you would protect those families and those people who are out of work. that you would be with them and we ask that you would send your spirit to move the hearts and minds of our leaders that they would lead and god that you would bless this nation that we would be a light to the rest of the nation, that we would show the world what it looks like when we follow you and we are just and fair and when our system works like it is supposed to. thank you for this day and this gathering and pray you continue to give us strength and encouragement and you persist in our cause. amen. >> thank you referent. we are going to keep fighting and we are not going to quit.

go in peace. we want to work! [chanting] the government shutdown in washington figure prominently. democrat cory brucker --

booker is running against republican stephen long amend. this is a special election for the seat of frank lautenberg. >> good evening. welcome to all of you. we are one week away now from election day like no other and of course the stakes are huge. we are honored to be on the campus of rowan university and we want to thank our partners who made this possible from "the philadelphia inquirer" philly.com as well as telemundo as well as the candidates. democrat cory booker mayor of newark new jersey and steve lonegan former mayor of bogota. i will be asking them the questions along with panelists of news for new york and david from "the philadelphia inquirer." each candidate will get one minute. whew will give him a 152nd bill to let them know they're

about to run out of time. some of those questions have come from you the viewers and we really appreciate your help. your work is not quite done because we want to encourage you to tweet about today's debate using the hashtag and matt jsen. we will not be tweeting but we encourage you to did tweet about the debate. we had a coin toss and the first question will be going to you mr. lonegan. as you know we are now in the ninth day of the a government shutdown. we know -- no agreement in sight as as far as we can tell. nine days so i would like you to give the rate to members of congress and a to fmat grade. grade them on their work so far and then without going negative for my age try to stay positive and not talk about what the opposing party has done wrong but give us a concrete example of what you would do to try to break this impasse. >> i want to thank rowan university the audience john and

david as well as my opponent mayor booker for being a today. i think the impasse in washington d.c. is unfortunate and i would like to see government open however think it's absolutely essential we postpone the implementation of the obama health care plan for one year. my grade for the two sides would be a big f for the president who refuses to compromise with republicans and they have called for many compromises in the last week. stay and are great for the members of congress? >> might rate for the members of congress would be a thee. i think they can do a better job of communicating to the american public. the 14th amendment of the united states constitution we simply cannot default on that debt. >> thank you. you have 15 more seconds. >> that is actually a false threat that threatens the economy and the stock orchids today in something that is unacceptable. >> mr. broker your grade and how

you would try to break impasse? >> the greatest that to be an f. we send people to washington to work to solve our problems in right now we have a government and shut down being shut down because of tea party extremists in washington that are stopping our government. my opponent is the leader of the tea partier new jersey. i believe any to send people to washington that will bring people together to work together. this is a chance for new jersey to send a message. the first election during the shutdown we could send a message to washington. delete want to send more tea party down there who are so obsessed with obamacare that they are willing to shut down the entire government to stop the expansion of health care to more people in america? >> how would you break this impasse? >> we have to decide what is new jersey going to do about a? send more people -- tea party people or more people like i have who have a record

bringing people together to make a difference for our state. >> a 30-second response. >> mayor i knew your consultants and strategists and your acting coaches would tell you to talk about the tea party as much as possible. i have donors that will donate to the tea party $10 every time you say tea party. i am not the head of the tea party. >> just letting you know you have 15 seconds. >> i want to say that i was not the head of the tea party. i headed an organization called americans for prosperity calling for limited government. if there were an organization called politicians for their own charity -- >> want to covers many topics as we can. let's do that because the big sticking point on the shutdown is the affordable care act. mr. mayor you have said you

support the outfit you have said there are problems with it. we have not heard what you think those problems are. specifically can can you name in the issues that need to be resolved when it comes to the affordable care act also known as obamacare? >> this is a clear distinction between me and my opponent. he said he would not have voted for medicaid. he said -- i believe people go to washington to make issues of cancer and health care all of our problems. obamacare is good assets. it is ashley helping families of children with pre-existing conditions not be at the whim of insurance companies and not denied them harborage. young people in this audience today in. they and their parents insurance longer. we have to make sure it's implemented in a way that works for everyone and on top of that we have to make sure that when

we look at obamacare we are also controlling the incredible growth of health care costs in our country. i believe they should have health care. the gentleman to my left believes we should not have government provided health care whatsoever. >> mr. lonegan. >> 18-year-old angelina frattini told me that public knitting but she is going to lose her doctor echoes of obamacare. 67-year-old diane a retired nurse has been told she could lose her health care coverage because of obamacare. obamacare is bringing chaos into the marketplace and that threatens the health care of millions of americans. 800,000 new jerseyans have received letters they are being thrown off of their health insurance. the system is simply not -- implemented. all we are asking is we postpone for one year so all the problems and issues can be addressed and

returned fund the government. corporations across america allies of press and obama have gotten special carpets. others are getting special exemptions. i'm asking that individuals in this audience get the same cooperation as the corporations have. >> let's go to david. let's move to david usher. >> jim thank you and mr. booker and mr. lonegan good evening paid mr. booker you have heard your opponent say you are more concerned about what happened and how they word versus new jersey. in recent days reporters reported to have expressed concern there's unfinished business in newark so how can you assure voters that you are interested in serving them and not your own image. >> first and foremost the city of newark has made undeniable progress. we are going for biggest economic development boom in the last 50 years. our first hotels are being built in 40 years. companies are moving their headquarters to newark from

panasonic to newark to companies like audible.com. in addition to this crime is down and on top of all of this we actually have shrunk the size of our government spending less money than when i came in and last year gave people a thousand dollar tax break. we are making tremendous progress in the city of newark but the challenge is we still have work to do. this is why we need help from washington. there are clear things that i support and washing to help empower new jersey cities. one is violent crime. i believe the overwhelming number of new jerseyans even gun owners said we should and second second -- my opponent supported the nra given money to the gun lobby and is again sensible background checks that will make our city safer. >> my opponent talks about economic growth in newark.

over $100 million for one company to move a block or two. hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars of our tax dollars go to corporate subsidies for the folks he gets to me when he is partying in hollywood and san francisco. at the same time as all of the massive amounts of our money from suburban membership taxpayers imported to newark so we can hand it out to corporate allies those funding his campaign today unemployment has gone from eight to 14%. unemployment raising from eight to 14% is not progress. that's a setback for new jersey. >> i would like to respond. it's not to me but all the people that have come together in newark new jersey to work on our shoes. right now in newark is 3% of the states population of one third of all the development of commercial in the entire state is going on in newark. the ledger says that's undeniable.

i would say what's more. steve's vision of the city's negative. he literally said in camden we should level the whole city. we don't need senators who will talk down to the citizens. we need someone to roll up their sleeves and make a difference. >> mr. lonegan governor christie has talked about for curry after superstorm sandy but you said you would oppose the federal relief bill to sandy victims. is victims. is it not the role the federal government through fema to direct aid to those who are victims of a natural disaster? >> the role of the federal government is to direct money to victims of natural disasters is perfectly fine. there were not proper and controls put in place to make sure the money went to the real victims. there are numerous reports of homeowners that have been waiting all this time. the other thing i objected to us the fact the money for sandy came out of nowhere.

it was simply printed out of thin air by the federal reserve bank. there were no cuts in any part of the federal budget. i would like is to see cs take foreign money away from countries of burn our flag -- as for spending cuts reasonable controls and how the money would be used that would go to victims and not simply become a major spending spree. i'm sure seven -- several hundred million will go into newark new jersey to subsidize cory booker's failed attempt in that city. >> please listen to what he is saying. he literally would be a senator from new jersey that when people are in urgent immediate need from superstorm sandy wade don't give our families money. let me work out these larger issues first. that is aslan acceptable to say san diego -- actually that is what the tea party has been doing. he says i'm not a tea partier.

think about this. look at who he has coming in and he talks about hollywood folks. he has three tea party people coming in. sarah palin endorsing him. rand paul endorsing him and who is the third person? oh yes rick perry. [applause] this is the tea party that he would join down in washington. this shutdown politics that don't give san diego cut the minimum wage and make abortion illegal even in rape and. this is the extreme tea party agenda that he has been running in the state of new jersey. >> there was a published report this week that said you did go to the democratic governor corzine to ask for state money for bogota. so that's okay? >> the taxpayers have been ripped off for 30 years. they gave us a sales tax and they said that would cut

property taxes than in the past income tax. all that income tax and sales tax money is poured into a big black hole in newark. the biggest portion of our income tax dollars goes to newark new jersey. when america's small-town fights to get that money back which we were told we would have for property tax relief, that is my job. every mayor and councilman in the state of new jersey knows that. >> he was the mayor of a city that had financial stability and then when he ran the budget into a ditch and had no way of balancing its budget he ran into jon john jon corzine for what was called extraordinary aid a bailout for his city in the small town of bogota. i inherited a 700 million budget we not only balanced a budget and cleaned up our books and shrunk the size of our government that gave tax breaks of $1000 to each person. one mayor who ran the city into a ditch and had -- ditch and had to ask for bailout

>> mr. booker dan raises a question about crime in newark. earlier in attended a number of murders fell dramatically but they have ticked steadily upwards every year since 2008. dan writes this question. what made you believe you should be elected to higher office if you can't fix newark's crime problem? >> i appreciate the question and again let's just talk facts. crime statistics show since i've been elected from 2006 crime is down 27% of murders are down over 15%. we have not only done that we have done it with less resources than my predecessor. we have a third -- we have brought people together to drive down crime. republicans and democrats. the manhattan institute rollup their sleeves and join with us to help our re-entry plan to have people come out of prison and not go right back. we were creative and innovative and we did more with less. my opponent solution is let's

level camden and he talks down to newark. we need a senator going to washington who will do the things to lift up our entire state. one state with one destiny. critical federal issues that are not solved like background checks in the secondary markets which my opponent opposes. he's getting support from the nra dropping money into his campaign. we believe there should be backgrounbackground checks for rational federal legislation to empower safety not just in newark or all of our state. >> to follow up on the statistics you say shootings which is not a statistic kept by the state police or the fbi, when you look at murders there were 67 in 2008 and 95 last year. is that progress on crime? >> in 2008 we lead the nation in dropping down shootings and murders in our city. so yes yes it ticked back up at nowhere near where the cia had it. we were down more than 15% and again the guns pouring into the streets of the city of newark

did not come from new jersey. they come from other states that have blacks gun laws who don't give back the checks and when we allow federal allow -- law to allow that to happen this is what the gun lobby and the tea party supporters do in new jersey. we need to make sure we get federal legislation for background checks. >> mayor booker talked about why why -- my $100,000. it's less than 16 of the money he got from payoff and the millions of dollars of contracts he sent to his former law partners. as the mayor of bogota crime dropped 30% when i was in office. under cory booker a month ago alley henderson was shot to death on the streets of newark. while he was under -- telling people what a great job he was doing. that is not a great job. one a day for 10 days will my opponent was running around hollywood and san francisco promoting himself.

>> you mention guns mayor booker. jonathan to question? >> for mr. lonegan polls show broad support for expanding background checks for gun purposes. would you support a law that close the loophole at gun shows? >> i see port actions by the the nra than no gun dealers are gun enthusiast can buy guns like they can on the streets of newark. i don't believe any of the crimes in newark were committed by -- in fact in the last debate the mayor admitted it's not legal gun owners who buy guns to do crimes. it's criminals. they don't pay attention to the rules. >> mr. lonegan but that system in place now you said you would not support expansion of that? >> the problem with what you're talking about his national rand checks, if i wanted to give a firearm to my daughter a 29-year-old girl who works late at night.

working on a parking lot and can't defend herself under new jersey law. when she wants to defend herself if i want to give her a right to do that i wouldn't be able to do it without a financial background check. >> what about at gun shows? >> new jersey does not have gun shows. we don't sell guns at gun shows in new jersey. >> you'd be making decisions on that legislation. >> i will not support an expansion of the invasion of our second amendment rights in nine states. i will be standing up for second amendment rights only. >> thank you very much. [applause] >> we would ask you not to applaud. >> he is against having background checks at gun shows which means down the united states of america after what happened in kenya doing a military style attack it basically means if you can get on a plane in newark airport,

the u.k. can a plane but you can drive to network with a car full of guns. 90% the majority of new jerseyans believe simple background checks at gun shows could stop these weapons coming into our city and we know they're coming from gun shows as we stop the gun runners and find out where they got their guns. this is common sense and we should be doing it 94% -- 84% of gun owners in america agree with this. you are away on the extreme in this issue. >> let's move onto another hot-button issue which is same-sex marriage. a judge recently legalized it. we know you have taken issue with that and you said that should be left to the people to decide that a recent poll found more than half of new jerseyans supports same-sex marriage so we want to ask you what rights do you believe same-sex couples should have? 's the first of all it's not the role of the judiciary or one judge to make love. that's up to the legislature to

decide. the legislature acted and the governor vetoed it. while i support marriage between a man and a woman as a sacred institution. marriage between a man and a woman is the greatest institution ever devised. that is what this is about. it's about children. however i do believe in liberty and the right for adults who live the life they choose. consequently i don't want other groups focusing -- forcing their value system down the throats of my catholic and protestant churches and overriding religious beliefs. >> it's the fundamental ideal in america the separation of church and state. we must respect churches and mosques and institutions but another fundamental balance is the idea that we are all equal under the law that our government treats all citizens regardless of background and

belief equally. i would not be standing here right right now if that was left to the legislature to say we are going to treat all people regardless of their background or the color of our skin equal. this is a fundamental principle in geek america. the ability to have the same treatment by our government if you love someone to me it's something it's good the majority of new jerseyans believe in. this is the problem. he says he wants liberty but he can't -- you can be free to marry who you want. he wants politicians getting between a a woman entered doctor about about making her own health care decisions. it's not the liberty of women but against women having the right to choose what they do with their own bodies even if they are victims of rape or. this is an extreme tea party view by my opponent. >> can i go back to one thing you mentioned? he said this is about the children so are you saying same-sex couples should not be left to children?

>> that would be a biological phenomenon. >> there is adoption. [laughter] there is artificial insemination. [applause] please no applause. >> the decision should be made by the legislature and by the people. >> i'm asking you do you believe should same-sex couples be allowed to adopt children or to be a surrogate? >> i've a question on how healthy that will be in the long run for the children i have mixed feelings about that. >> let's move to david with a question on jobs. >> mr. booker we want to talk about something you reference in the debate and how that is you may make a urban renewal a high pretty but the implement rate is 14% nearly double the new jersey average of 8%. should voters question whether you can handle as a senator if you can get ahold of that unemployment rate rates be because newark new jersey at such a waive of development

unemployment rates went up. please understand newark is having such a boom in development that we represent one third of all the development commercial multifamily per square footage in the entire united states. by opponent might say that's not enough. we are continuing to do things and tomorrow we will announce the whole foods is moving at 29,000 square foot store into the middle of newark another sign that the developers and business are coming in their population is increasing for the first time in 60 years. that's why the star-ledger said progress is unmistakable. the most common birds you see in newark is the thick cream because there are so many cranes putting up steel. >> the game at the expense of property taxpayers.

>> but we have right now property taxes based on individual assessment. the governor christie and i stood together to announce a $130 million and cut the ribbon on up 130 million-dollar project. the governor of the state of of the end of the end a democratic mayor stood together to announce this development could use a clear sign that not only were 500 construction jobs created and hundreds of permanent jobs but we were doing it together to increase the tax base of our state. companies and businesses that were not in new jersey before coming to our biggest city. hearken back to the days that newark was an economic driver for our entire state. >> the only birds in newark are the vultures. the political hacks picking away at the carcasses of the taxpayers of that city who are watching their real property taxes for small businesses that you are destroying when you hand out hundreds of millions of dollars in corporate handouts and corporate subsidies for those politically connected to you.

when you're out in hollywood are going around california unemployment is at 14% almost double the national average. that is a failure in anybody's book and i need to do is go to any small business and they will tell you how they are being crushed by high taxes runaway crime rampant high school dropout rates. it's completely. >> let's move onto foreign affairs from him. he boasts that it's not america's role to be a police force around the world. this past weekend the navy s.e.a.l.s tried to capture leaders of the militant group responsible for the attack at the mall in kenya that left 67 people dead. there were no americans among the dead as far as a nail. do you support this kind of deployment of u.s. military forces? >> no way do not support u.s. military force is my opponent has put on his web sites. he supports the small interventions. we do not need to be involved in every intervention. tomorrow i greet the bodies of

five u.s. military men for soldiers and a marine that will be returned from afghanistan. the presidents refusing to fund the death benefits for those soldiers. the president is refusing to pay for the families of those soldiers to go to the airport to meet with the bodies of these men who died unnecessaunnecessa rily in a war that this president said he is going to and and is now gone on longer than it has under george bush. we need to put an end to the death of our young american- >> i don't know if he is running against me or barack obama. >> both. >> the reality is the reason my those benefits aren't there for the folks coming home don't you understand it's because a fringe group of tea party people shut down our government. [applause] this is not the presidents fault. it's and neither is the republicans fall. it's tea party people like ted

cruz who you say our heroes to america. as asbury park said if you send steve lonegan to washington it's like pouring gasoline on a fire. if you want to end the shutdown politics and extremism and do the things our government should do supporting veterans coming home and children in new jersey suffering with the risk of losing head start dollars. ..

the. >> this election is a referendum in of obamacare end of the ira's abuse of power in of obstruction of liberty. how could you stand there? >> this is a long west. >> listen to his rhetoric and his position it seems mckee is trying to do more than rush limbaugh lundberg. [laughter] that is what drives further gridlock weedy to have

leaders like myself please understand governor christie and i have a lot of miss agreements but he is losing weight and diet gain weight. amir partners of economic development. with a republican and democratic partnership every reporter shows the progress but to borrow island for as whole foods opens and brings more jobs. >> you have given the edge to my opponent the whole tide. >> what is on your mind? >> with chris christie a number of times over and over again we have the same position on abortion and marriage but he holds a the eppley key is being endorsed he never mentions buono.

who does he support? >> i don't understand i am not a ready may die running for the united states said it. those elections are next wednesday. i have running to work together you can just condemn. that is the tea party approach in washington. >> mayor i respect barbara buono. >> host: with that question on education. it cuts through the garden state. charter schools nationwide is somewhat spotty sometimes better than public or the same or sometimes worse for you both support charter by how kid you be so supportive ? >> public education is the

bedrock of cover state and we need to do everything we can to make new jersey public education the best in america. in teed i have no authority whatsoever under governor christie's control by eight know we have one of the highest performing public charter school section earnings in the country so we're bringing back resources to the city to improve charters. know we have very different views on public education my opponent says he would get rid of the entire federal department of education what does that mean for new jersey? fleet of lose out for kids with autism and disadvantaged kids the of something he does not support but makes college more affordable right now they are against the telegrams and the g.i. bill that makes college more affordable price a pub -- support public education the

life of take the money away to hurt the institutions. >> it is a new fact there are only pennies on the dollar going to washington d.c. we get about $0.40 that is not a good deal you don't have to be a mathematician to figure that out we would be better without the federal department without a federal department of education we had that better and but what is the most expensive school districts in the united states of america chris spending is almost double they have a high-school dropout rate of one to do 50 percent -- 50 percent thousands of children now will become part of party and what it yet we the taxpayers paying billions of dollars of

public education the best is done by a parent or child or the teacher not the federal department of education and your city proves that. >> host: let's move to jonathan on the debt ceiling. >> whoever wins the race will arrive in washington just as the federal government hits the bar wing minutes. believe vote for a bill that raises the debt ceiling even if it includes the provisions that you oppose? >> that is what a compromise is. we send people to washington to get things done. right now unfortunately we see this right now my opponent says we need to not upgrade the debt ceiling prof -- to say working together is nonsense flat until this more insulting you insult working together but the reality is we need

people that will raise the debt ceiling and not for a shutdown politics that messes up the full faith and credit of the united states of america this has to stop. and hurts our economy and tricks jobs we need people that will go to washington to be bridge builders to make reasonable compromise. with yes and i support compromise and working together but what i will do when washington but it refuses to compromise. >> he has always had to work with the opposite party i'd like my uploaded that always had the all democratic meeting that the police were brought in and ended up in a riot at the eye with not support precede the debt ceiling with corresponding spending cuts.

it is simply too big and too interested in the mayor wants to make it bigger we are spending too much. we're mortgaging our children's future headed to economic collapse of we don't start cutting spending in the mayor does not know how to do that is. >> the president and senate democrats said they would not negotiate over the debt ceiling so that in which you voted against raising its despite the consequences? >> it is clearly defined in the constitution although that does not carry a rate which the administration. the 14th amendment says you cannot defaults. i still pay my taxes so that revenue still comes to the federal government they can pay their debt but with the administration says we will not negotiate that is now working together. we will not negotiate.

we will not compromise. our way or no way. i am proud republicans are sending standing up. >> we talk about the department of education but which agency will liddy you cut specifically? >> let's not talk like this one u.s. senator would not cut entirely. we could cut the department of education significantly that is the biggest we could make cuts to the department of commerce, department of energy, intrusive regulatory agencies, regulations on small businesses, the epa is crushing business including newark queeney to roll back these regulations i propose to sunset them all and a regular basis so we can be competitive. there is a lot to be done

but it is time the government starts to lived within its means. >> as mayor we strunc our government and spending less money today the and in 2000. but we need to make sure with the tea party status in washington they believe they want to get rid of regulation from polling that government from the things that we rely on our families to get rid of medicare and social security with the party scheme and give the oil and gas companies free rein. no link multiple sounds of my city that has pollution that ruins industries like clamming we need to make sure the protections are scheerer.

we have to pull back like many of the fokkers want to do but i believe and shrinking government responsibly but not to protect our food and water and safety. >> i thought you wanted to respond? [laughter] >> you need not be able to swim the river but all the bodies are floating around from the shooting victims. [laughter] >> oh my god. you use the word tea party extremist but if you raise the family to build a small business stand up for a limited government your idea of working together is to call people extremists there is a lot of extremist sitting in this audience today. [applause] >> please hold your applause

until the end. >> there are bodies floating? these cities are trying to work together. with you talk about kiam did one of what we should do? that is unacceptable we don't need a senator who will talk down the city's but lift up the whole state to make us understand we are one states. >> let's talk about entitlement programs. >> there has long been a discussion about the budget deal to solve these crisis but that would require both sides to accept something they don't like when you support changes to social security as part of a deal on spending? >> i appreciate you say that that is how we solve the problem something that my

opponent calls the biggest threat to democracy that we should privatize not fix it or make a stronger but privatized by believe there are rational fixes we can do now to protect it such as raising for the payroll tax with the richest if they paid more then be preserve the system for everyone and common-sense solutions and the e answer is absolutely. senator mendez who just compromised for a bill on immigration eight senators came together but my opponent rejects the compromise. we need to send people to washington who will solve the problem not take the extremist students but to shut down government. >> you talk about the attacks but they will reduce

the benefits either by retired a to would you reduce it as part of a compromise? >> they rely on social security to reduce benefits with a high cost the like new jersey it is hard for him to make with the social security checks they are getting. we need to make sure we do things to strengthen social security that is common sense around the table working together to make sure senior citizens have a way to enjoy the final years of their lives. >> should be finalized -- privatize social security? >> my mother who is now at e.d. years old she deserves those benefits and she earned the benefits but the mayor supports the plant that takes three-quarters of

a trillion dollars of medicare they paid into that program all their lives. the you will see those benefits change under obamacare. over the decade to come we should not have the constant problem with people coming into that system and everybody does that. >> but the plan is to allow the private market. that would be to take the rug out. >> data anteaters the whole system. >> with the people of the top of this system and collecting but those at the bottom paid for the people at the top what you describe is a pyramid scheme. that is not the case?

it does not rely utility rely on those young people? with republicans and to work together common-sense fix let wall street decides your retirement date we group believe republicans and democrats they even said we can do common-sense that is what we got to throw it out to wall street. >> but the system needs to be maintained imagine the money they would have been the bank if they have all the many in the bank many

people would be well pate pate, if he does not trust people he wants the government to do everything. >> this issue has reemerged on the campaign so to give you a chance to clarify over several newspapers hiring people illegally for americans for prosperity workers said to pick them up where workers were known to be but the campaign website says they would give amnesty of citizenship to 11 million undocumented immigrants are you only okay with illegal immigrants working in the country? >> i loved by its reporting. i tried to hire but they never started is said they were the goal but check the facts one of them was.

said you have to go by what somebody says, immigration is an important part my grandparents were italian immigrants coming through ellis island. they came legally. we need to secure our borders but a booker has made newark estate for illegal alien criminals. they commit the vandalism you can assault somebody and you will be protected for life. if he were in the illegal immigrant go to newark that might explain the rising crime rate fell to you have made it a sanctuary already. >> that is not true. your words to divert be but

the policies of the people of the jersey. be clear. he says he is against bailouts the with the city was in trouble. with having an undocumented workers he hired undocumented workers this is the problem that we have. very kids for prosperity is held good but he got paid a quarter of a billion dollars last year to run a campaign against raising the minimum wage about $800 per hour to stop people from making $8.50. this kind of hypocrisy is not the policy we the people working together for the immigration system to also protect the borders does give back a quarter of a billion dollars?

debt to the issue of how you portray yourself in your public speeches. there are reports about a murder victim who supposedly died in your arms id newark one night also a police report that says you were on the scene assisting the said the victim died in the arms of noblemen so what really happened? >> unfortunately my friends campaign says i was on the scene right after person was shot trying to stop him from bleeding to death but actually he went into cardiac arrest spee vicki was officially declared dead at the hospital but the police said he had cardiac arrest but was said this is the destruction we have from the two-party uploaded to saying this was a this or

that but the reality is we have too much violence in all inner-city is of new jersey. what is the plea and we have? here is another case of good violins i tried desperately to save somebody's life but unfortunately some of the weapons bullied come out of state i do believe it shows my opponent doesn't thank you the background checks to get a gun speed and but this is not about where he physically died but how you portray yourself in the stories in the speeches to the public as you go around the country in another story about a character named t. bellevue's said it is a composite. >> that's not true. >> here is your chance to set the record straight year it gets to the court if you are embellishing stories to prop yourself up. >> we have police of the sea

that corroborated everything i said. my former opel mitt confirmed this was a common name at the time i was living in one of the most dangerous areas. it was a comedy to have to don't. but the reality is up person who lives in one of the most violent neighborhoods is experiencing every day but the problem is that these kinds of stories are all too common with hundreds of people in our state coming to patterson being victims of gun violence but what will lead u.s. senators to stop the violence? >> i never brought this man up in my campaign was exposed by a major news, --

publication with the me and who stumbled into the man's arms that did not have been. he did not stumble or die in his arms. i find it deeply disturbing when elected officials use the death of someone like that to build himself up. of of the major scale. it shows a lot of his character is and lack of judgment. >> people talking about bodies floating in rivers? that is a lack of judgment to condemn cities in exaggerating the of violence instead of during practical things to support and we beat washington in touch with that agrees with 84 percent of bad orders that there's too much violence we need to stop criminals from getting their heels on guns from clearly needed background checks far

>> it is hard to a century of those people shot under your watch. >> you are finding a way to do that. >> but for each candidate the the city that you admire and tell us why. >> for i admire ted cruz the of rand paul and marco rubio and senator lee and quite a number actually. those who advocate for liberty who stand up against big government the way the founding fathers did. beer not afraid to stand on principle or the constitution or bill of rights to take the hits from the media or the opposition and stand tall. >> i did meyer alatas

senators from both sides like the gay negate that came together to hammer out a compromise. there are people trying to work to get things done even from jack kemp he supported the efforts like dick lugar for the challenge is if you would get the people thir all far right for extremist if the tea party people think if you want to send and other costs tea party person who was due shut down the government or another extremist. >> and look who he admires. i did meyer both people of both sides of the ilo to put aside their differences to find ways to work together to get things done for the people of the united states of america. not to shut that -- government down but to come together and work together

to do the work. >> we're almost out of time. but what is the biggest change you hope to make in the senate? >> of bill that will repeal or sunset every regulation on a regular basis to reexamine to free americans enterprise. weedy to create real jobs in the private sector not for the government subsidies and programs like qc in newark that cost millions that results in the 40 percent unemployment rate. >>. >> guest: street pealed the clean air act? id repeal regulations to keep us safe in clean but my biggest goal is to do things to create jobs of what america should be doing to invested infrastructure like extending the rail when it

helps to create businesses along the rail. we need to make higher education for more affordable because the greatest thing we can do to be competitive is help the people today. >> mayor, we don't need the government to create jobs give us our freedom in the people look free all their jobs back above to give the freedom to women. [applause] to make their own health care decisions and make abortion illegal even with rape incest. you cannot have it both ways if you want liberty give it to the gay americans if you loved liberty give it to women still mickeys to respond for a time of your closing statement. >> he is attacking the abortion issue by he supports tax payer funded abortions up to the day of delivery. under what circumstance?

you'd try to get their endorsement but tell us. >> i will tell the american people exactly what i will stand for. i believe in roe v wade. it was decided by a supreme court and i will stand by it did you repeals that if a woman is a victim of rape or incest said he thinks it should be legal and i say if you believe in liberty then given back to women to let them make their own health care decisions then let us help detect problems. >> with the far left abortion lobby he supports abortion is funded by taxpayers up through the day of delivery for eddie reese said whatsoever that is safe legal and rare. we could see it on the cokie roberts show is on my website.

>> i will tell you right now all woman's health care decisions is between her and her doctor against people do want to get rid of trophy weighed that is where i stand. you don't need to go to cokie roberts you heard right here. >> and imagine a boarding a baby in the eighth month. he supports that. >> not churl that is unfortunate >> the reviews are very distinct. >> you are not clear. you plan to make it legal with rape and incest. >> i think to take a life of a baby at the eighth month? civic we don't have time for closing statements now which is fine. [laughter]

we will thank you for this lively debate for this panel tonight. and thank you for hosting us tonight the conversation continues now. vote one week from today. [applause]

>> first i want to make a few responses to the committees made earlier today the most urgent threat to our economy is the debt not the debt limit. i piggery in the long run we need to make serious adjustments and we have made progress. by the way middle-class income is declining in america. to be that is a greater problem it it happens for another five or 10 years this is a different america but having said that the importance of getting the deficit down we can make peace and progress. mr. stevens i heard you speak about confidence by it is safe to say they have confidence to pay obligations of the changes it will make the dead worse if interest rates will go up to make the country less strong and i would argue one of the best ways to increase

our debt to not pay our obligations or pay or bills. they are not unrelated. i will agree with senator minutes does but here we are two years after the last discussion if we pay the debt. so the important purpose of this hearing, mr. chairman is to deal with the deniers. there two types of one group generally confined to a small minority in the house that the next defaults to is not matter for i have noticed one of the people most quoted as congressman brown from georgia who says it does not matter this a man whose said one-third of what you learned in this -- medical school is a light. if somebody like that leads the country we're in trouble

but there is a more sober group that is beating steve in the senate that is more troubling they think there is a magic solution and many members report a way out of the predicament. we can pick and choose which payments to make an end if we prioritize then we avoid default. so mr. stevens and mr. bentsen elaborate on your prioritization and the effects of the market. treasury secretary news said prior to authorization is the fault of the other day the we have hundreds of dollars maturing between october 17 and the end of the month, 93 billion october 21st. we look at the investors' willingness to rollover so mr. stevens you talk about

confidence and how confident can we be that they would be willing to roll over the debt that we cannot repay some creditors? >> if you think of a household that relies on a bank for financing if the bank finds out they choose to pay some bills but not others does not inspire great confidence to continue to the end to the extent that it does it will charge a higher interest-rate. and that is the analogy that the confidence of this vast market of lenders that we depend upon the level of $17 trillion to take a blow in respective of which bills >> it is true we have tried had this experience before? we have had enacted decision

made to pay some debts but not others? >> well said. i yield back my time. >> up next efforts from somalia in the international community to eliminate the terrorist threat. the senate foreign relations subcommittee from the state and defense department is two hours. >> with the securities and governance issues from the outset let me say with the shutdown i seek it remains critical to the filler constitutional duty over

national security issues. i also think the shutdown is worth examining in this hearing has significant greater impact on our ability to execute effective diplomacy to analyze intelligence and a thoughtful way so i think it is relevant to our current state to have this hearing today i am grateful for the cooperation and take you for allowing us to before word with the strong panel of witnesses we have. as we work together to help somalia chart a course it could lead to a future the it is helpful to provide a example of a strong democracy we can be proud of. i would like to welcome ranking member flank -- lake and other members and our distinguished guest to the

secretary of state of african affairs and are secretary of defense for africa and usaid assistant administrator in this humanitarian assistance the assistant secretary and on the second panel for the research fellow for africa the institute for national strategic studies in the founder and executive director for policy studies in mogadishu is a key for the effort involved with your travel to do it joined us here today and the africa international crisis group. i go in several cases it was difficult to make preparations with the shutdown in i am grateful for your presence. coming almost two decades after the battle of mogadishu that 18 americans were killed to defend our

interests and provide assistance to somalia following the withdrawal this occurred after that a and after 20 years of state collapse in general difficulties recent developments give a significant reasons to be hopeful. broad progress is due in no small progress do the mission consisting of other african national troops and coordination with the military. it has provide territory in revenue creating much needed space. this has allowed some of the it to form a assembly that was recognized by the united states last year as witnesses will testify as much pride in it -- progress has been made but the people are frustrated with the government's failure to provide basic services and health care in humanitarian situation remaining severe.

more than 2 billion simoleons and more than one hedges 60 confirmed cases have emerged to remind of be helpful -- fragile health situation. the people our impatient at the lack of leadership as required by the constitution the government has a 36 months to have a constitutional referendum and have a constitution is provide elections but as the horrific attack in kenya shows they are still operating within the borders of this requires our attention and resources as we consider what it means for somalia for our allies in the region is worthy of the extra attention in today's wall i will soon introduce of a resolution condemning the attack to reconfirm the regional

efforts of counterterrorism number of this is looking at how to build begins of security since 2006 we have provided several hundred million dollars of support to the national army in addition to economic growth. despite these investments now keeping pace with changes on the ground i intend to introduce legislation requiring the administration to look at the benchmarks for progress that i hope we can discuss in more detail today. i am here to welcome secretary thomas-greenfield and also mr. aynte from traveling from mogadishu and all the skills you bring to this hearing now i will turn it over to senator flake. >> i appreciate the chairman

holding this hearing and you making the sacrifice to be here with the challenges of the shutdown in geographical challenges as well. thank you for being here. the events of the past week showing they will be threatened in somalia 20 years to the day after the battle of mogadishu with blacktop down u.s. special forces and those of that interest me at 20 years later the same problems that plagued somalia earlier with the collapse of the central government even before continue to play today today's hearing will give us the opportunity to evaluate policy to the government that is recognized for the first time earlier this year

and we need to make sure that leads to something positive for it is encouraging the recognition occurred but we need to make sure it is in the right direction. with the threat posed also needs to be assessed a special with the narrow be attacked in the the assistance that u.s. provides to be examined to be sure that it supports the u.s. objectives there this is important -- important that and another 20 years special forces will not rent -- risked their lives again and look forward to hearing the witness today it for the chairman to push for word it is good we're still having hearings and moving forward. figure for being here. >> now we move to the first

panel of witnesses. we would like to keep opening comments to five minutes madam secretary? >> good afternoon. chairmen and ranking member it is a pleasure to appear before you today this is my first hearing since taking over my position two months ago. it is important for me as assistant secretary of african affairs somalia will remain a top foreign policy for the department of state has as for the obama administration. the past year marks significant changes in somalia and bilateral relationship with somalia. the election of the president was a welcome signal that room for political progress is opening. this was made possible in

part from the international community support for this djibouti peace process and will of the regional partner of the governmental authority. i january 73 formally recognize the federal government of somalia after two decades of transitional government but nevertheless they understood very clearly that they face considerable challenges as they work to rebuild the statehood. with the african union mission with contributing countries as strategic partners to even serrate al-shabaab shows the strength of the african led model. but this somalia based al qaeda of chile it remains a dangerous presence. the all too recent terrorist attack on the shopping mall in nairobi that al-shabaab has taken credit that is the

challenges for the region. with violent extremism in the horn of africa may be evolving into makes clear al-shabaab is a threat to partner nations of east africa, and their consistency and american interest in that region. al-shabaab must be stopped. the federal government of somalia must increase the capacity to encounter al-shabaab to unify and fractured political system, and provide basic services to the somali people. they need our support and much more. our primary interest helps the people of somalia build a peaceful nation that is stable with a stable government to insure civil security. this leads me to turn what

our policy engagement is. prior to recognition we have three primary elements provide trevor kidd union mission orgy amazon the strategic partnership to combat al-shabaab and provide political space for the government to operate. second, we want to respond to these humanitarian crisis to initiate stabilization responsible and to promote the dual track policy. post transition the three elements of the policy had devolved as follows. first we continue to support amazon as a primary stabilizing force as we experienced a resistence to

the somali national army from the institutional capacity from 2007 to introduce 30 into the state's had approximately 512 million u.s. dollars in support of the amazon in addition to the contributions of u.n. support packages. during the same time obligated more the menendez 70 million to support the national army to combat al-shabaab board effectively and shifted from crisis response now to lay the foundation of economic recovery through programming and fyi 2012 and 2013 we provided nearly one digit $40 million of funding to support the democracy and the growth of activity. third, our dual track approach with a successful completion of the lgbt peace

process in recognition of the federal government. the united states has underscored the importance of out reach with the administration's to form the federal framework we will continue to find the humanitarian assistance and civil society with the objective of improving regional collaboration to federal government. the assistance includes an emphasis on human rights and accountability, a child soldier prevention coming human trafficking and transparency and fiscal the initiative. the tragic attack on innocent civilians at the west gate mall has underscored our ability in the horn of africa to demonstrate that al-shabaab has a network in east africa and is willing to carry out attacks outside of somalia. pressure from the amazon and

the national army has weekend their ability to wage conventional military offenses to hold territory inside somalia. we attribute the success to the african led army for vdt stability but days still have destabilizing operations in east africa although we're working closely with efforts to review internally what for the resources we can provide and to to secure the efforts to cushion tribute to put into a cohesive and effective force to engage with these complex issues to understand local dynamics to build a relationship to understand the programs in somalia we need to establish a permanent presence there.

to believe it is the security conditions of somalia to dictate when we can establish a more permanent presence in realize the time is not right at this time but we're moving in that direction. the current posture allows for the nairobi based diplomatic team to travel to the somali capital with increased frequency and duration as security conditions permit. building political cooperation among the some of the region and the klan in support of the federal framework is the central is democracy or economic growth or security is choosy to take hold in somalia. this is the message the president emphasized with the secretary kerry and national security adviser rice and lusby when i met with him in the york. we see signs that regional

administration is engaged. the somali government from august 27 recognizes the regional entity mapping the way forward to become a federal state. the federal government introduced the road map through the 2016 elections with the focus of political inclusion and security and mogadishu came to an agreement of regulating air space, a step to wider reconciliation. ultimately the development of the participatory accountable and representative government and institutions that responds to the need of somali people will secure that country's future. we're committed to working with the government and the people of somalia to help them realize that decision. thank you. >> take you very much that of assistant secretary i look forward to our round of questions. secretary dory we look

forward to your testimony. >> chairman and ranking member and distinguished members of the subcommittee and staff thank you for the opportunity to appear today on the defense role of somalia and that area. the united states has not maintained the official military relationship with somalia since the early '90s because there was not the u.s. recognized government intel 2013. in light of that recognition in january the department of defense with close cooperation and coordination with the state department ceases -- seeks to develop a relationship with the security forces. you receive from 20 years of civil war having acknowledged since 2006 al-shabaab has led up by the to insurgency first against the former transitional

federal government and out against the federal government of somalia and amazon for says. once controlling those cities al-shabaab operated with impunity. today ethiopian and amisom forces have weakened debt as a fighting force in somalia but al-shabaab is still dangerous and capable of conducting sophisticated conventional attacks to disrupt the operations of amisom and the government and mogadishu is a sobering reminder that for the foreseeable future we must maintain focus on somalia to sustain progress made to date as al-shabaab is to remain the primary threat to east africa and stability for time to come. the significant gains achieved by somalian forces over the past few years have been critical to provide space for the political process resulted in the

transition to government now officially recognized. somalia faces many challenges but moving forward on a positive path but it was hard to imagine five years ago. with the military relations richer dod through the command to work with the state department you designed state cooperation activities with the development of a unified somali force. there have also been tremendous gains in and around the horn of africa piracy has been eliminated and the united states relies on the access to ensure the economic well-being and as recently as 2011 somali pirates held people hostages and roams the area the size of the united states. today things to changes of business practices of the

commercial maritime industry and the presence of naval forces piracy is almost nonexistent. dod has approached the region to reflect the national security strategy of sub-saharan africa and dod focus is of particular on the advancing peace and security by working with carter's to adjusts -- address concerns to create an environment of sustainable broadbased development. lateen for word tea you deal worked in conjunction with the state department and other agencies to provide security assistance to killed on dash build the capacity including the ability of counterterrorism secure borders and reinforcing democratic values of rule of law and additionally we will work with the state department and amisom of the contributing countries to

defeat al-shabaab. amisom is the success story that african forces have collaborated to regain territory from al-shabaab with the somali national army united states is another partner to give treaty -- treaty to facilitate the efforts. once appropriations are proved fiscal year 2014 would be the first in 20 years that dod can support somali national security forces directly with activities. it has put in place a senior military representative in nairobi to perform several similar of a defense attache be will increase our presence in mogadishu with the department we are now

participating in the joint security committee led by the somali government and defense working group of the united nations on a regular basis. we have made a concerted effort of senior officials and this summer the commander of u.s. africom made his initial visit and additionally secretary hagel hosted the president of somalia and his chief of defense at the pentagon in september. these engagements have been critical to identify and understand the needs a and concerns. in conclusion somalia will show challenges and opportunities however with sustained assistance from international partners the national security apparatus will be better position to to fend off the al-shabaab insurgency to gradually transform the state into a success story.

think you for your support to our men and women in uniform and civilian professionals. we look forward to working with you on somalia and the other elements of our policy. think you. >> west of our first panel assistant administrator. >> thank you. good afternoon. i appreciate the opportunity to speak with you today and your ongoing support for the programs to make a difference in an the lives of millions. as a last testified about somalia that was the worst drought in 60 years have plunged 30 billion into crisis. . .

>> since 1991 at the democratically elected president and parliament. just recently i was in brussels where 58 countries gathered in support of a compact for somalia that focuses not on famine but on peace and prosperity. the recent and very tragic attack in nairobi underscores the need to reaffirm our commitment to helping somalia on the pathway to peace and

prosperity and economic growth and provide alternatives to economic extremism. the u.s. working somalia has been defined by eight prolonged emergency. however over the past five years, with increasing security gains, the u.s. aid has been able to increase our support of five key areas in transition, and and it supported the first national government in 22 years. with other donors, we have provided logistic support and constitutional experts with traditional elders and representatives from across sections of the somali society into a constituent assembly. we mounted a massive drafting constitutional process and its eventual adoption by the constituent assembly.

this assembly elected new members members of parliament who then selected the new president through a democratic process. globally, we see that the greatest poverty and insecurity persists in weak and fragile states that are plagued by stubborn conflict. in 2011, a group of 19 self identified conflict fragile states establish a new framework for helping countries climb at a protective conflict called the new deal a fragile state. this new deal calls for clear focus on five key piece building and state building goals. including legitimate politics, security, justice, economic foundations, and revenues and services. but we all just endorsed in brussels with the government of somalia sets us on a roadmap to achieve those goals with very clear benchmarks. a federal constitution by 2015,

credible elections, 30% quota for women's participation, state security institution, and so forth and so on. the new deal hinges firmly on mutual accountability and a state society relationship that is based on inclusion and on dialogue. this means involving previously marginalized populations. brought civil society consultations and vital dialogue with regional entities like this. this approach recognizes that security, development, and governments are deeply intertwined and must be pursued together. today food insecurity levels in somalia are at the lowest point since before the 2011 drought. yet three key challenges remain. these gains are very fragile, we have ongoing needs with 870,000

people still in crisis. i insecurity, al-shabaab and other armed groups have limited access, and access is vital to continuing development actions. also with the severe weather shocks that are coming in ever faster cycle so it is impossible for communities to escape these cycles of crisis. u.s. aid is not just focus on saving lives but our communities are better prepared and ultimately the smart people must be the architects of development in their country. and they would not have the opportunity if it was not for the many members of the somali community in and outside of the

country for making a daily decision to focus on hope and peace rather than conflict and despair. we know that the road is long. the challenges are steep. this will not be fast and nor will it be easy. but with the specific commitments of the new deal that roadmap with the specific commitments and continued focus by the people and the government of somalia, we believe this represents the best chance for peace in two decades. and the u.s. will remain a committed partner and thank you and i look forward to questions. >> thank you very much to all members. >> thank you for focusing on this enormous progress that has been made in the last two years since he first testified. i would like to remind you that we are dealing with this famine

and piracy, which has been dramatically curtailed. and we are making steady progress towards a legitimate state recognized by the united states in the line for progress towards a federal state structure and towards moving forward with dealing with some of the unresolved constitutional issues and significant process. i would like to ask first of all three of you, what impacts is the current federal government shutdown having on your departments abilities or stations abilities to review and approve programs to carry out needed development and diplomacy and other defense related services, and where the shutdown to continue for another few weeks, would those impacts stricken or become more pronounced? if you will please, thank you. >> thank you for that question and i think i can say, and i'm sure my colleagues will agree that the shutdown has had an

enormous impact on our ability to coordinate foreign policy within the interagency framework and some of our colleagues within the inner agency are on furlough and they are not available to coordinate with or speak with this evidence that everyone is at the table. we are also not in a position to travel and in the case of traveled to somalia, that is a two-sided problem. security now, people are not traveling, but had there not been a security issue, they still could not travel because we have a travel moratorium. thirdly, the ambassadors are not able to host events that build on critical relationships that we need to develop to do our jobs and i think an important part is that we are not able to monitor our assistance. and this includes large amount of taxpayer dollars that went to

somalia. we felt responsible in order to ensure that those dollars were going where they need to go and able to get out in the field and monitor. to monitor the shutdown and it will certainly impact that as well. >> i would just like to add from her perspective, the civilian employees in particular were effected and that significantly diminish our ability to operate across the department and all key arenas, whether personnel readiness and training and policy development. and etc. there are also unexpected ways where the shutdown impacts, for example, the inability to make cash expenditures. that could be fine as far as if you are thinking about cash expenditures to entertain a

visiting delegation, for example, that perhaps that that could be set to the site temporarily. it comes to aircraft and various kinds, whether it is an overseas location and being able to use a small example of a limitation in place by the shutdown. then perhaps, most funding includes the absence of fiscal year 2014, were planning levels are and that impedes upon longer-term business with the somali contacts. the dod resources and title 22 state department resources will be available to be brought to bear. whether it is the somalia or any of the other countries in the region. >> okay and i would just like to add a to that that we are in a critical time as we move toward this important milestone that will be critical for seizing

this moment to help us move forward. this is an effort that the united states is doing in close partnership with the international community and there are a number of important meetings that we are constrained in being able to participate in right now at a moment where we want to be at the table to talk about the importance of accountable and and transparent government and a functioning government that we are not able to be there for her. in addition to the constraints to our travel and our ability to work with the interagency because of furloughs. >> several of you have mentioned that this particular structure of amisom is a model of african led regional security of being successful. and one of the lessons learned and strengths and weaknesses, i have represented this in a number of settings that this is something that we are looking at not too broadly.

a number of nations coming together operationally. driving al-shabaab out of significant swaths of the country, stabilizing the country, making possible development and improving security. and improving statecraft. it has gotten very little attention in the domestic u.s. press. but compared to what was the condition in somalia a year or two ago, this has been a truly outstanding success of a model that is chaired and african led. i'm interested in what you see are the strengths, weaknesses, lessons learned, and what we should expect going forward for the amisom nation. and each of you in turn. >> thank you very much for that question. i do think that the amisom model is a model that can be used. some of the lessons, as i look back on this during my limited time and this office, i think we have to do a better job of

ensuring that we provide the support that amisom needs to do its job. when i was in new york i met with the foreign minister from uganda and he said that we have the people to put on the ground. but we still need the support to move those people around and we need the enablers. and because of our budget cycles of how we budget, we are not always able to provide them with that support as early and we also want to be able to continue to support them and each year because of our funding cycle and due to the support that we want to get in. you talk about how we might use this model, i visited the country of mali and a similar model was used in the short term, less than 18 months we were able to bring the country back into a democratic country moving forward and we support

the democratic process as well. >> what kind of lessons might be learned about stabilization in the transfer of security functions from amisom to the somali national forces? >> i think that as we look at the success and the many successes associated with it. the many challenges include putting together all of the external supporters with all of the different coalition of the willing and contributing countries to step up and answer this call. managing this across the complexity is one of the biggest challenges and can make things slower and less efficient than otherwise would be the case. i do think that you're seeing replications because it is successful. whether it is the resistance army that we have talked about in other contexts where you have the u.s. and others enabling

regional partners, taking the lead to pursue the resistance army and where you had regional forces with this configuration and now as a u.n. mission that is being supported by ekstrom parties as well. so i think that the replication is an indicator of the success and are part is bringing the targeted training capacity and bringing in enablers, thomas greenhill, as others referred to, sometimes it can be quite challenging, especially in the area of logistics, which is the true shortfall when you look across the many different missions on the african continent. the logistics capabilities of the partners themselves on the tools with which we are able to support them. >> building on the airlift capacity is a long-term goal that we all share. and in conclusion, assistant

administrator lindborg, how does this contribute to the development picture that is inextricably intertwined? >> absolutely, somalia is a perfect example of how one needs security for development and also how development leads to greater security. so as we continue to push our development programs into south central somalia, the opportunity is to help citizens gain greater confidence in both local and central governing structures and to receive the services that are absolutely essential for their well-being and for their support for the way forward. this is supported by greater security. so it is a hand-in-hand proposition that going forward will be important to be able to realize the gains for security and development working together for peace and prosperity.

>> thank you. senator? >> thank you, thank you all. continuing on amisom, looking at the map provided by the atlantic council in terms of the area controlled by government forces is pretty small. ms. dory, can you explain how far out of mogadishu does the government writ actually go? how much are we actually controlling outside? through amisom with the security forces. >> okay, so what they have succeeded in doing essentially is taking away the revenue generation prospects for al-shabaab that were related to the core operations in mogadishu and the other areas as well. focusing on these population centers and liberating them, that was a critical step taken

in terms of weakening their systemic capabilities as you have seen on the map. the forces have since pushed out of those population centers farther into the countryside. but there are swabs of the somali territory that are not under effective control at this point. and there are those in between some of the major centers that are maintained and patrolled by amisom. but it is quite clear that there remains additional territory that is available to them as a sanctuary, and that is really the work ahead with amisom and this himalayan national army to continue to pressure al-shabaab so that they continue to fracture and continually are displaced from the locations that they are currently occupying, such as we saw over the weekend is eight current mode for al-shabaab.

>> are they engaged in counterinsurgency activities that always that just 30 forces? >> it is pursuing them directly alongside the somali national security services. so it is both that they are enabling one another in various times in one takes the lead. but the vast majority of operations there are operating together. >> in 2010, the au wanted to change the role of them to peacekeeper to peace enforcement. is that a distinction without a difference or does that matter? >> well, i think that that refers to the rules of engagement that are operating under. and amisom is operating with robust rules of engagement where they are not a defense of force there. they are making peace. >> is the transition happening

easily enough with the security forces? >> in my view the transition is happening as quickly as it can, which by definition, the ability of of the somali national army to take over is quite constrained at this point. the somali national army is about 17,000 strong at this point based upon account from their chief of defense. but of that, many are militia forces or other individuals who are under the banner of the smaller national army and some of who have been trained and many have not, they have been trained by a variety of external forces, so there are major capability gods as far as the somali national army and their ability to step in for amisom.

we would forecast it would be a period of time before there really to step up and take over the mission performed by amisom. >> you're talking that the government there. you mentioned that the parliament is democratically elected and it is -- you mentioned in reference this is democratically elected. is it more of an appointment there by tribal elders, the president has been elected by the mps, but how much of an election is it for the parliament, and how much legitimacy to have going forward >> there was some criticism a year or so ago. but they were going for about $25,000 and there was some correctional edge to it. can you talk about that and how we are moving away from that and what legitimacy we have going forward?

>> yes. >> there have definitely been challenges of corruption through the years. the importance is the commitment of the current government to move beyond that as they look at the list of benchmarks with the elections in the new constitution over the next several years. it is a 36 month timetable and there is a historically great deal amount of factionalism that would be important to have the kind of inclusive dialogue over the next 36 months to find a way forward and that includes that kind of participation in the solution. this is one of the best opportunities that they have had in two decades with an inclusive process and that kind of planning will have to continue where you bring in regional entities and you bring in a lot

of the local governments that have been critical for holding communities together over the last several decades but now need to come together under an umbrella of the central government with a federated government. >> the president was elected by the parliament. >> it was elected by the assembly process. >> and as we geared toward the 2016 presidential election. >> okay, great. back to the security environment. what occurred last weekend. nobody faults them, we did not get our target their. and i am sure that the commanders made the right decision. how does that affect our policy going forward and what policies does that present two of us to

have another field rate into the country, does that embolden al-shabaab? >> from my perspective taking direct action is one multifaceted approach being taken vis-à-vis al-shabaab and the circumstances under which that is pursued were outlined. by the president and his national defense university speech and they are selected and they have selected cases were that will be pursued. i think more importantly is the indirect approach and the three major pieces you want to see. and one is continuing to support amisom and their activities against al-shabaab. the second is working with the somali national services and

their ability with counterterrorism going forward. and the third the we haven't touched on yet is the work that we are doing with the other partners in the region on a bilateral basis whether it's directly with the canyons where the ethiopians, uganda, all of them have faced various threats from al-shabaab based on their willingness to participate. and several of those had borne the results in terms of their territory. and this includes a bilateral support in the region. >> thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you. we thank the witnesses. and the operation in somalia, it is my understanding from

published reports that they didn't go forward because there was greater resistance than they had in this debate it. is that an accurate depiction of what happened? >> senator, to discuss the operational details we would have to move into a different setting. >> could you say whether the media reporting was accurate or inaccurate. >> i think to confirm the details are not confirmed the details would require us to move into a different setting. >> so i guess what you are saying is that we have to have information on to secure a setting that it is okay that the media report this, these events, and yet you can either cooperate more to my these events. is that correct? >> that is correct in this setting.

>> okay. well, don't be surprised when there is skepticism here about the activities that we engage in and the fact is it was a failure and the fact is that it was an intelligence failure there in otherwise the mission would have been completed. and i guess maybe in another setting, "the new york times" and "washington post", we will find out exactly why it failed. given last weekend's operation, it was justified under the au amassed, which we understand and we understand that that is something that president obama seeks to appeal. will these types of justifications he made in the future? >> senator, going back to the earlier discussion about the direct and indirect approach at

the present time, enforcing this is legally available for the direct approach and the corollary to that is in a blatant they regional partners, whether it is directly or contributing directly with contributing countries or others on a bilateral basis that will continue to be a core element of the strategy in terms of countering activities and disrupting al-shabaab. >> absent in aumf, with this operation have been legal? >> senator, i am not prepared with a legal analysis for you today. i can come back to you with a response on that. >> okay, is it your opinion as to whether it would be part of this?

>> i do not have an independent or personal opinion to complement those, this legal analysis of this at this point. >> okay. ms. thomas, linda thomas greenfield. it is my understanding that most of the work is being done by private contract. is this true? >> we do have private contractors assisting us in somalia. that we are using a mixture of that as well as direct support to our amisom and other strategic partners such as the deal bins and we also work very closely with amisom and have some amisom support their. >> does that mean that we have american troops in somalia? >> no, sir, we do not have

troops working with the somalia government and we do work with the somali national military outside of somalia and doing training, and we also occasionally send people into do training with them as well. >> how do you maintain oversight of what these contracts are doing, these contractors are what they are doing, if there is no american military there? >> we do send people in on a regular basis to monitor when we are able to travel when security allows us to travel inside and that is part of the issue that we have. we're not able to travel on a regular basis but when we are able to travel, we are able to do that kind of monitoring and also we work and monitor them throughout operations in nairobi. >> these contractors are often

operating in what is effectively a combat zone. would you agree? >> occasionally it is a combat time. >> okay. he spoke about the goal of normalizing our military and the military relationship with somalia. could you describe what that would look like? >> would have hoped for, the military to military relationship and it is my hope that once the security situation there is enabling, that we would have our military doing regular programs for the same kinds of programs that we do elsewhere that provide training and support to the somali military. and this is toui