a combat zone. would you agree? >> occasionally it is a combat time. >> okay. he spoke about the goal of normalizing our military and the military relationship with somalia. could you describe what that would look like? >> would have hoped for, the military to military relationship and it is my hope that once the security situation there is enabling, that we would have our military doing regular programs for the same kinds of programs that we do elsewhere that provide training and support to the somali military. and this is to build a professional army there that is

able to provide security and is professional and has capacity to respond to them. >> what grounds did we decide to send contractors and as opposed to our military? was it the threat? was a contractors do a better job? what misguided these decisions? >> we have always had contractors that have supported our efforts, but in some places we do have military. and it wasn't a decision that we would only use contractors for. , especially to use on this occasion, with changes, we certainly will look at other options. >> i think that that was part of the issue. >> well, if it is the security

situation that would guide us whether to send a man, i would imagine it is the security situation that managed to keep them out and i think the witnesses. >> thank you. >> as a senator referenced in the number a number of us have discussed, there have been developments in the region both in kenya and somalia that i think all four a classified briefing, particularly on the west the attack in nairobi and some gather from their the regional implications as well and i welcome the opportunity to discuss the timing which that might be possible. my colleague as well. >> i am sure that my chairman understands the frustration when we read things in the media. believing to be factual, coming to find out in an open session whether it's true or not. especially deserving to know if it's carried out in the media. >> i suspect that we share this

in the media, not all of which i believe that i do think. including their ability, given the impact of the shutdown on a departmental resource, the preparation advice and otherwise, i do think it is appropriate for us to continue some of this line of dialogue if we could as soon as possible. we have designed to counterprogramming with jihadis tendencies. could you say something about the small-scale, quick impact projects that i believe with this ongoing effort in this area to try to stabilize the situation from what long-term development? >> yes, you characterize that right. there is an opportunity to show

quick wins where you have initial greater security and work with them. those communities work with coinvesting in them in a way that enables local government structures end with their communities and to align that, then, with the central approach as it evolves. and also addressing central services like basic infrastructure and at the same time, we are very focused on what is a large youth population to provide opportunities and through our somali youth initiative, to provide secondary education opportunities as well as economic options and ways for them to participate in civic life and we can do this is absolutely critical, especially for those groups.

with your permission i would also like to clarify the senator's question about the democratic election of the president and the assembly. the constituent assembly was formed. and they've been elected the president and they are not able to currently have the kind of representative elections that we think about in this country. and it is to provide that kind of election commission and voter registration that they simply are not equipped to deal with right now. so there is a difference between democratically representative and democratically voted that i wanted to use the moment to clarify. >> okay, i was taken aback when he said this earlier on. and i agree that we are not at a point where we could expect anything else. but we can't leap, lead people to believe that we have a democratically elected

government there. >> it wasn't every vote to this country, but one that does provide a legitimate government to enable us through this time but we are working at the community level to be realized. >> the 2016 overarching process is a legitimate national election as possible spirit that is right. >> absolutely correct. with the constitution. >> enabling a process of reconciliation and a more inclusive dialogue. including an important player in august. >> 20 years of statelessness, lawlessness, functioning democracy, it is part of the objective of this hearing, to understand how we can best support this. just coming back from the new deal conference, i would be interested in hearing a little

more detail. what you see as our role and how well coordinated it is towards the goals we have been discussing. >> i think this is an essential opportunity because it enables the donor community to come together in a coordinated way and to support a plan and a framework that is owned by the somalis with the key priorities that were laid out. we are able to work together against this priority, and there are very vigorous conversations with the uk and sweden and other development partners on how to ensure this equals and aligns behind key priorities. and there is also a timing urgency here that it is in these moments where there is a rush of confidence in the sense of

possibility that we step forward in a coherent manner that moves us against a very ambitious timetable. so it is important to grasp as they call this the golden hour of possibility and allow this to turn into real results. >> okay, what is our overall strategy to help us better understand strengthening the ongoing efforts to develop centralized state institutions and a coordinated federal system, given the clan-based power and recent ad hoc efforts to perform some states and my impression from your opening testimony. that there is steady progress towards both, but there is tension and this includes a federalized structure and they are a passport in this part of the process. >> our primary goal is that there will be a strong federal

framework that allows various components under the central government to participate in a process of governing the entire country of somalia. we do need a central government that can provide services and that can lead and develop the policies going forward. but the government has to recognize the components outside of the central government. so we have encouraged cooperation and implementation of the federal framework and we have encouraged the government to be in close coordination and cooperation and we were very supportive of the agreement and further agreements along those lines. the president of somalia has expressed his fears that he is prepared to move forward in that direction, and we are backing him in those efforts as well.

>> triptych. thank you so much. senator? >> thomas greenfield. you mention $140 million go into this economic growth activity and democracy activities. can you give us further detail where that is going? and who is administering back? >> go ahead. >> okay. >> you mention 140 million. is that correct? >> that was going to our efforts to support the capacity of the somali national army and supporting training for that and also building a democratic institution that is being worked with usaid. but what i directly referred to was direct efforts with this.

>> to further detail this with economic growth activities. >> yes, we have about a 64 million-dollar program for 21 in 2012. and that is working with some of the activities that are detailed to help set up the constitution to support the move towards elections and that also includes work with those governments to continue to support the very important advances that they have already made on the democratic approaches and transparency and accountability is an aligning them with the federal government and includes a lot of the work on setting up the independent election commission. as well as the electoral law and the mechanics to make the gains that we need in the next 36 months.

>> okay, turning to this, we are going to make it sound as if they are okay with this arrangement and that is not the sense that i have received from them. they have wanted to be recognized on their own. can you explain the difference here? >> yes, they have worked to develop and stabilize the areas under their control. but we are following in the lead of the au. we have not recognize separate governments at this time because the au has not made this recognition. but we continue to support efforts to provide security and services to the people as well. >> you mention some funding is going to help them. what is their understanding as to what they are to do with this money, and are they establishing

their place in the federal system. they have a completely different idea of where they are going and what is your understanding? >> well, as i indicated, there is continued support of the accountability and transparency that that they have and have made gains with. and at the same time, we are doing it in a way that expressly indicates the goal of having that align with the central government in a centrally federated system. >> do they accept that? >> there are conversations ongoing on that. >> okay, just a general observation. go ahead and stop. but we all know that this is a very tough work.

this is a tough environment. we have had basically a lawless situation with no government for 20 years and nobody could expect them to immediately transform into this flourishing democracy and we understand that here. but i get the sense from the testimony that painting a rosy or picture than actually exists there, and i'm not sure that that does us any good. as those who have to authorize and sustain the programs. and i will be interested in the next panel to see the thoughts on that. we recognize that this is tough and it will be a rocky road. but it doesn't do us any good to gloss over the difficulties. my suspicion is that we want them to succeed and we recognize them. but there are large swaths of

the country that do not recognize the government as legitimate. and we need to recognize that and move forward. but it is a tough road. i know that we are doing the best that we can. but it is likely a more difficult situation than perhaps we are told about. so i thank you. >> thank you, senator. senator mckinney? >> for this panel, if i might, we do have another panel that we hope to come to a conclusion in this hearing. i want to thank you for your testimony and there has been significant progress made in somalia relative to what it was two years ago. a lawless state characterized by widespread piracy. humanitarian crises and the utter absence of a functioning federal government. great progress has been made but

significant hurdles and challenges remain and i look forward to working with you as we articulate u.s. strategy moving court to take advantage of that i think the panelists on this committee. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> i would like to welcome our

second panel tonight. first we have andre le sage, founder of the heritage institute in mogadishu and a deputy director of africa for the international crisis group and i would like to invite each of you in turn to make an opening statement if you might. please do so to the committee. doctor le sage? >> thank you, senator coons, and ranking member and members of the subcommittee. and honor it to appear before you today. i focus my remarks on the international efforts to defeat al-shabaab. a full written statement could be included in the record. >> without objection. >> they are an insurgency force, however retains targeted guerrilla and terrorist attacks against somalia, u.s., and other individuals.

this includes when they stormed the westgate shopping complex killing scores of civilians that without additional efforts to defeat them, it is only a matter of time before the group undertakes additional attacks. they currently are led and have controlled much of central somalia since 2006. over the past two years, the tide has turned dramatically. amisom has partnered with clan militia that have integrated into the somali national army and they have pressured them to with draw from mogadishu in august of 2011 and then seized the neighboring towns. in 2012, ethiopia and kenya also worked with galicia to liberate these towns. in central somalia, clan leaders and local administrations have also resisted this movement. in response to the military superiority, al-shabaab has avoided conventional engagements and has shifted its forces to safe havens that lie just outside the amisom reach,

including the region and the mountains as well. from these locations, they have employed their intelligence wing to watch hit and run attacks and place ied's and carry out assassinations and suicide bombings. it is comprised of hard-liners in the same time, there regional governors are essential components of the network. they maintained control over the local populations and allow terrorist training camps to operate, raise funds through taxes and extortion, conduct recruitment and management relations. as the westgate attack shows, they also retain a significant operations capability, including tamales and foreign fighters are only loosely under the control. they are dedicated splaying terrorism across africa and work closely with affiliates in kenya and the muslim youth center as well. they have personalized command

and control and marginalize leaders who disagree with his decisions. long-standing tensions between him and his deputy broke into open violence in june of 2013. many analysts hope this internal conflict would weaken al-shabaab, but this is not the case. for several years, they have been building a faction primarily based on this and this includes the funding and operational planning. the strategy does remain a matter of debate. and the group may be playing a waiting game retreating from large battles to preserve strength and using terror attacks stay relevant for as long as possible. and it is a hope that they will change allowing them to research. this would be the case if the smaller government fails if they can align with clan-based opposition groups or a new regional somalia idea.

they can impose this if they haven't regional forces that can make the progress that they have done and the somali federal government works to federalize this area. the group may be satisfies managing a struggle that commit acts of violence for as long as possible. to conclude, although they have indeed lost control of key cities in somalia, they have recalibrated their approach and remains a vicious enemy. the united states and its international partners are redoubling efforts to roll back the group while supporting the federal government to consolidate security gains and this requires a combination of efforts. we must revise this offensive, including increased operational intelligence support for both amisom and ethiopia. second it is critical to develop a capable and critical national security structure that can fight side-by-side with its regional partners. third, additional diplomacy and foreign aid are needed to

support the federal government and the local administrations with which it is working to build a federal structure. they need to negotiate power and resource sharing deals that allow the federal structure to function. finally we must continue supporting the neighbors, particularly kenya, but also tanzania and other countries that serve as hosts to the affiliated movement in the region. mr. chairman, thank you for the opportunity to testify and i look forward to your questions. >> thank you very much, doctor le sage. we look forward to asking questions. >> turman kunz, ranking member, thank you for the opportunity to participate in this important panel and critical juncture. one year after the formation of the government, there are reasons to be cautiously optimistic. the somali people are determined more than ever to reclaim

dignity and above all their place among the community of nations. they have also identified an enemy to peace and said stability, including the distraction and a spare and the science of economic virus are reemerging and returning in large numbers bringing much-needed skills and business opportunities and a sense of normalcy. this is where the issue comes in and it is important for the united states to include this. significant part suggest many are enjoying relative peace and stability and solid government. with regards to security gains, danes are less encouraging. despite losing control of most major cities, fighters remain a major threat from where i came from this two days ago is under constant of salt and a key challenge to stability is the

comic weakness of command-and-control that is demonstrably weak due to the fragmentation of militia forming the forces. training especially on vulnerable civilians remains poor and on coordinated with many running various programs. it does not reflect the regional diversity of the somali people and a much-needed legitimacy. the u.s. government has provided significant support with the forces and the peacekeeping mission included for many years. the support from the u.s. and other development partners includes the collapse of the federal government and its survival. the u.s. government must support this innovatively and this includes surgical strikes and ammunition that were apparent for some time and now there is a greater need for partnership. resources must be channeled toward rebuilding accountable brought representatives for

security services that have qualitative and quantitative advantage over the enemy. they have done an excellent job of recovering regions from the tierney, but they cannot become a substitute for indigenous forces. the somali forces ultimately defeat al-shabaab. it is inextricably linked to this, which is why they adopted this nearly 10 years ago. including what remains elusive. some have translated this with frustrated progress of the national level and communities in communities across this are taking matters into their own hands and are carving out fine lines. this includes direct u.s. engagement and sent the wrong signal with sectarian policies. the process includes three

challenges. first, provisional constitution is deeply ambiguous about the shape of the federal government of somalia and divisions of power. the meaning of federalism, many of who are legitimately concerned about a legitimate waste state, including an effective judicial branch that can talk about these provisions. and also those who play the leading role on the national dialogue are yet to be established. the constitution calls for the formation of a dozen independent commissions, including those that are on the boundaries and the commission and implementation commission. these delays are inexcusable. the federal government garnered an unprecedented support

following their inauguration september 2012. and also one in parallel backing from the international community, including the u.s. government recognition for the first time in 20 years. and a support from turkey and peacekeeping mission. many believe that the federal government has fallen short and we have positive momentum to advance these dialogues with key domestic actors, including existing federal member states and traditional elders and civil society. third, neighboring countries are sometimes seen by encouraging and sometimes helping the entities douche and transit their own interests. including what we have seen in the recent attack in nairobi, unchecked interference come at destabilizing the country, and recent fragile gains. the envisioned of elections

takes place towards the end of 2016 and this is not impossible. while this is not impossible, it is highly improbable given the magnitude of tasks. it should remain an admirable goal, but we must not do this or process building. they are not an end in themselves but towards the more viable state. that includes finalizing the constitution, settling on a federal structure and party lines. the challenges facing this end in this, it is not insurmountable. it is a deeply flawed document that contributes itself and put future member states on a direct collision course. some people need urgent assistance in this regard. priority must be given to the formation of the review and implementation in commission.

once established to engage in general national dialogue and there are many who have relevant experience that can provide essential support in this area. second, assistance to the smalley people in the somali government must be contingent upon measurable gains. it must be held accountable for the provisional constitution in its own national plan. and we will loose faith and offering something more than it predecessors for the u.s. and allies should assess them to hold government accountable, including the civil society that has always been and will continue to be a powerful force for progress. the role of civil society is currently worryingly absent. ..

>> pirates were disrupting

global shipping lanes the very notion was contested. but carter's with the effort you again, the u.k. and turkey and the west and others they are slowly emerging. now we need relentless efforts of the institutions of have legitimacy and capacity and resources needed to finish resources. itt for the opportunity to present my views i will be happy to answer any questions. >> thank you. dr.? >> thank you for this opportunity. working on somalia since 2002 and in going back and forth for research purposes amisom has with the health -- help of ethiopia and the army and various clan militias have dealt

al-shabaab a serious setback. now a new provisional government better than previous the ministrations the government quickly recognizes government pledge money in support. italy has to facto control over mogadishu is still able to get a high-profile targets with security forces security in mogadishu and elsewhere remains dependent on the amazon and will likely for some time to come the amisom can impose the peace that is only possible through nationwide process of negotiation power-sharing and crude governments. -- the government's but this issue is the issue of federalism and simply put

there is serious disagreement for those who like to see somalia become a strong unitary state to stand up to its neighbors those that fear a centralized government would be dominated by a single plan or a group with those need to be thrown out quickly with the establishment of local and administration of the state's. and through southern somalia was exacerbated through ambiguity of the constitution to create the state's. neighboring countries also have significant security interest in somalia as all forces of the country. it is linked to the middle east and are very active in the country. and with the historic rival promoting its own system of

federalism is a strong proponent of federalism in a bottom-up approach of state building. weber many think it is a ploy to keep the country began divided in their weary of international pressure for power. but then to return half a million refugees. but it can get has thrown is be not behind the federal government. looking for an exit but somalis view this with great skepticism with the monitoring group kenyan politicians and officers including the and charcoal and most believe kenya ones to control southern somalia because large oil and natural gas deposits. al-shabaab trying to turn the population against the

terrorist and kenyan occupiers and that a small attack was a crack down to that attempt. beyond the regional state to take an active interest in somalia this allows them as to take the state's off against each other particularly muslims states. it is also complicated including the u.n. and african union in the regional organization in east africa with no clear division of responsibility. but it was the overlap being mandate of the u.n. and a you to have military peace enforcement responsibility but having been in mogadishu with the forces of over 70,000 troops it is some major political asset while there is a political mandate of security policy.

isn't the issue of federalism. both are headed by special representatives and on starch and how to share responsibility. the west gate mall attack much has been written it has long been excepted although not the first but the most destructive. of the somalian muslim population of what al-shabaab was seeking. with the opinion of the crisis group to support and prioritize nationwide negotiation that the federal government will implement for the new states have ruled based process. its support capacity building but be linked to reconciliation to insure the

minority clans are adequately represented. it is difficult for the aid agencies. but congress should consider supporting the hire work fund with the initiatives in the periphery. there already behind schedule and quickly funded by donors. around somalian the war in the u.s. should be giving assistance to such programs. also plays much greater emphasis on reconciliation on a level between clans also feeding into larger conferences with all the

capacity is is jerry to coordinate successfully. but the state department of mogadishu to work with amisom to have the will to your exit strategy for somalia. to create a mixed klay and national army. lastly the international working group to help a transparent mechanism in the major ports. with the oversight board and supported by experts to ensure that those revenues have all agencies. in conclusion somali is an extremely weekend and fragile state the those external sources it is far from certain yet it is at the point of sustainable progress to become real and

if the international community works together to the goal in some of the confronts the government and the challenges facing the country. i look forward to your questions. >> let me start with your latest recommendations. first the security situation in the financing with the strategic challenges the second about federalism you all had interesting comments my sense is al-shabaab has been principally for ideas to when day had parts of the coastline through the extraction of taxes for those communities they control and recently they word describes how the trade helps to finance al-shabaab what should we be doing to ensure al-shabaab loses the

financial support to continue the operation and what you see the most important next abstruse strengthen amisom to carry out the of the mission of the mission to make the transition to a more broadly representative the and inclusive and professionals of molly forces? i of interested in all three of her answers. -- sure answers. >> charcoal trade is banned by the u.n. security council and the united states should do more to force the partners to adhere to the prohibitions. the real challenge with amisom has reached a point

that it can no longer push farther out and what it needs to provide resources for amisom to capacity to improve the ability to reach out or board needs to be done on the political side to stabilize somalia from a political perspective. >> thoughts on how we reduce financing by whatever means. >> first we need to know exactly where the financing of al-shabaab as coming from the conventional belief was the city's that it controlled and the resources like mogadishu but now it is gone many are wondering where the financing still comes through. part of the answer they

still control considerable amount of land in south somalia so it is the attempt to be part -- recapture that but in relations to the security forces that is ultimately with that peacekeeping mission that is needed up until the moment but the attempt needs to be made by the somali government to rebuild that securities sector. >> i do think it is possible to rebuild they represent credible of national security force but there will take a considerable amount of time both aids and says our instructive of the

time frame but also the kinds of numbers that we need of the forces at close at 300,000 for afghanistan. somalia has 18,000 half of which are probably engaged of the vip protection of individuals. so clearly half are incapacitated main task to deal with al-shabaab. >> for amisom to be successful several have recommended the more advantaged weapon systems and attacking capabilities more of what amisom needs to be successful also to further restrict the resources of what does that look like for a security force? >> starting with the issue of al-shabaab funding when

the movement controlled it was the single largest foreign currency owner but also had revenues by levying taxes to extort money from the businesses that could not operate. but now al-shabaab has lost control but it is very close so it can tax the charcoal trade gap production rather than and distribution to. in this sense the control of the town is critical. this affords the opportunity to impact any trade and also to still make revenue off of the charcoal business. in that sense more operation stooge dislodge al-shabaab from the key towns will be the best and fastest way to

sustain the movement in that sense for it is absolutely true amisom needs the force multipliers in additional soldiers to undertake this movement. right now amisom forces are limited to the same number as only controlling mogadishu but now spread out in multiplications. so they are stuck using that limited forces in a static security role. the fastest way to free app and deploy would-be if the federal government worked with local the administration to kraft consentual governance in the area global forces of the somali national army to provide security and let amisom take the fight to al-shabaab and other spoilers of the peace

process. >> one more question there seems to be a tension between a desire for a strong national government to resist intrusion from ethiopia or kenya from outside forces but on the other hand, a suspicion of its strong federal or national government because of the strength of the klay and in the political traditions across the country, a managing fees with a constitution in its current form has significant internal contradictions what the federal structure should like is difficult. it is very difficult for mayor own articles of confederation but there are striking similarities with the healthy functioning government for purposes of security and taxation and control of trade is necessary but there is a

certificate internal concerns that mitigate against a strong federal government. what role should they play to in advance a federal structure and to do will track policy hurt dash processing and what you recommend for u.s. policy with regards to implementation and ongoing for requests? >> the fact is that the somali federal government is the key actor going forward to make decisions of the establishment of a to federal system to provide some degree of convergence of the local actors and talents across the central government but the somali federal government is currently only one actor on the scene if we talk about locations of kenya and other forces are operating wary we

need to fight al-shabaab there are other actors of concern. this is the authority that has been established those that have been working very closely within ethiopia and the homeland in the self-declared state of somaliland. there are also other fenestration is better local to the other movement. these are facts on the ground there has been a great deal of concern the dual track approach would reinforce these to dismember somalia and make a weaker country. but 20 years of civil war have decentralized radically to make it a weak country the dual track approach allows the united states to engage as a capital level at the regional level at the

same time to promote the agenda of convergence. may be the language needs to be changed but that ability to support both levels simultaneously is what is required for the power sharing deals internally but then between the town and the central government. >> good question it is important to highlight a matter where people are have some sort of a federal structure that are engaged to look at this what we found there are universal dominion's for basic things in the debates everyone wants to elect their local and national leader and they want to have government services closer to where they are in see the equitable sharing of sources

and they would like to see that guarantee against intrusion we believe these of the issues that can help put for the debate and the framework. what could the government do? first the building in the formation of the conditions to review the federation and ultimately the interstate commission is what they can then do with expertise from those that are capable is to lead a national dialogue at the moment there is virtually no dialogue and politicians talk to each other today as the interests but what needs to happen is the understanding that when we interview people across

the country of the options of decentralize the devolution of power most people do not understand. i think a civic education is needed but that these two have been a long sigh that commission. this third way it could help is the finalization of the provincial institution deeply ambiguous contradiction. so it could be a strong the starting point of course, it is unrealistic to expect we have a clearer picture but we could be as strong position three years from now. >> as we know here in united states federalism is a contentious issue even in these hallowed halls. i a greek that perhaps we

need to recast the parallel approach of the dual track approach but if the money cannot go to mogadishu alone if it goes there it is staying there. of the progress that b.c. is largely in mogadishu because of the resources pledged to these countries are largely staying in the capital. i think when the federal government tries to do things it is easier to do things in the capital than in places far away especially without the links of the administration or they are in very high style relationship as they continue to be. the important point is that al-shabaab benefits from these disagreements and tensions and one of the biggest problems we have while we do have more stable

and less of a safe haven in places but it is dominated by a single plan allows al-shabaab to recruit from the minority clans that feel they are not being adequately represented. al-shabaab is a waiting game and other areas to see if political tensions come to the fore to use that as a recruiting tool to rebuild the ranks. thank you. >> 84 area answers. think you for your patience senator flake. >> particularly on federalism and you mentioned mr. t11 -- mr. aynte that to contradict himself with the federalism aspects of that? >> it is all across but that federalism is the most important part it is on a

collision course but it gives up power it is not clear but it is only a provisional. >> you mentioned four things that you expect that of the central government? to those applied to is the people in the somali the and? it sounds as speaking with their representatives they don't want to share in the country's resources they have the wrong. am i off base? >> it is slightly different it has done a remarkable job to destabilize to lay the

foundation of the democratic process but it is not see keying succession from the rest of the country but like other regions it is under the federal government very much like somaliland to carry on its business. because of the vacuum that exist with the federal government. but i do think that given a concerted effort that is made with other emerging in the existing several states. >> the last panel talking about the government in referring to as the democratically elected government it is not quite that simple but how is it

viewed in the rest of the country? going back to 1980 with a first attempt to appoint a traditional alders that a point to a constituent assembly but what makes this a different? why is this government is viewed as anything different of the last attempt? or is it? [laughter] i would agree the of the selection process that's there was a greater attempt to insure the majority of the elders who were at the assembly who selected the president were more

represented then they had been in the past. there were lots of allegations. people focus mostly on the fact the prime minister nor the president who was elected were both notably not involved in a major ways of this is seen as a bit of a break from the past in to be honest the president came from someone of civil society that we have worked with in the past and are excited about that possibility. so we certainly see it as an improvement on the past regime. >> we seem to have backed a force but what is the

position? what do we do? >> elected third not impossible but highly probable as the industry in the elections may be another select autocracy by some people but it could be that we might have elections and parts that are little more stable than others. it with the work that needs to be done so it will depend on what they want to do going forward. of course, not many people looking for word to use the extension number a wants to hear that but i do think

there has been some sort of a selection of process that brings the country to the next level. should i say we're more hopeful than previous because people see this as one step to the greater goal of consolidating the gains that have been made over the years of the process. >> with the failed raid last week, the last panel did not want to go there. [laughter] order the implications does this emboldened what we don't want to wimbledon? what are the practical defects? did it surprise you? to read the most important recent development of strength of al-shabaab and

exacerbating the threat is the west you attack. with the sensationalism over the weekend overshadow that tragedy and that a precedent for the g hottest in the east african region on a global scale but not to undertake a suicide bombing operation but to launch a commando raid to kill such a large amount of people but i do believe because said-- signal to the leadership for their not he was the actual author of the operation benson says signal that al-shabaab is al qaeda affiliate to be taken seriously and his leadership is not a question that they can launch these attacks sole purpose in taking there affiliate's and extra operations group and the

national movement to give space for those extremist preventing them to hold their space is of critical element like what is reported to a taken place targeting specific individual al-shabaab leaders are those connected could do temporary damage as said immediate operational plan but only by removing the safe haven to establish a functioning national federal government to address a and undermine the support for those movements that is the only way to reduce the threat long term. >> your time is up. >> figgie for your engagements i have many more questions but i'll just ask if you.

but with the last line of questioning suggests we now face of time pressure to support the expansion and other amisom to the new merrick strength but at the same time running against the clock to transition to a legitimate force because the law under it is made possible by the external multinational force the mower that creates the opportunity for improvement a and al-shabaab to cast as the occupation army rather than their liberation force. would you agree? hall press seeing is this war regional security? >> given the length of time it will take to build up a professional and self sustaining somali national security force in policing

component is urgent we begin work on this today at the same time it is urgent for the next several years to continue significant support that amisom holds. . .

all other clans in their regions across south central somalia. for this reason we actually need very quickly to expand the somalia national army recruitment and take that planned militias from the other areas that are part of independent administration or proxy forces for ethiopia and kenya and use salary payments frankly to integrate them into a national force overtime trained, equipped, and develop something professional which will take several years. >> thank you. the issue of remittances which you mentioned in passing has been a concern of mine. describe if you would briefly the role in the united states and from europe and how the economy in the growing sort of capacity in mogadishu and nationally would be effective if the mechanisms for transferring romances were to be blocked and what you think we can and should do to try and sustain the

pathway for a legitimate, vetted remains. >> senator, the scale is larger than all international aid combined. it is about one and a half billion dollars per year coming from somalia. the u.s., europe, australia, the middle east, and africa, about 2 million somalis scattered around the world. so it is essentially the most important lifeline that the somali people have. i think that banks and other financial institutions have legitimate concerns about the rules and regulations, both here in the western united states, but also in the u.k. where now they are blocking or are about to block companies to open up bank accounts. i think with the u.s. government can do is to work with partners, people with the u.k. to try and create a framework whereby the

companies continue to send legally. the alternative is if barclays goes ahead with its now promised to shut down on the companies in the u.k., the alternative is that many people build underground. our ability to see the activities of money transfer from the west to somalia will become even more constraint. so i think this is an urgent matter, one that has serious implications, but humanitarian as well as security, both here for the united states but also for the somali people. >> thank you. last question. the previous panel spoke some about the model of an african- lead in direct action by the united states financing an african-led multilateral force as being a possible role model for multilateral action for regional security.

if we are at this site -- sort of point of inflexion where success or failure is the only option fur amison and regional partners, how vital it is it for our interest, the continent and globally, how vital is it for the future of somalia that amisom succeeds and the regional partners continue to get bilateral support from the united states to stay engaged in this fight and to not withdraw? >> well, as i mentioned in my testimony, i believe, has dr. andre le / mentioned, it is quite likely the government would collapse. i think that amisom has done a remarkable job over the last year for years to push al

shabaab back at enormous cost. i think that the largest challenge really to some degree is that while this has been a very effective military operation, they you at the moment still lacks the capacity to make this both an integrated, political, and military operation which is why we have created this kind of unreal the hybrid between the un which is a political mandate and the a you which is a military mandate, and it has always been very difficult to try to meld those two organizations together since they have different cultures, they often times at different leaders who sometimes don't get along and sometimes do. currently the un as transition to a new mission to the new secretary special representative for this tech for jerry jarrell. very early for us to be able to see how that will work. he does have instructions from

the u.n. security council to cooperate. those instructions are not very clear. and i think it remains a work in progress. unfortunately has i think all of the colleagues would agree, ultimately the solution in somalia needs to be a political one and that amazon needs to work within a political framework the to achieve that goal and melding those two organizations and have them working toward the same goal has and continues to be a challenge. >> thank you. >> just one question. with regard to the diaspore, it is very involved obviously. one half billion. what is the feeling in the dashboard generally about a national government and the situation there? can you give some sense of feeling? >> well, you know, i used to be

part of the diaspore myself. >> i know it is not monolithic give me some sense. >> like most people in somalia, that as far have welcomed the inauguration of cards will then he's numbers. a year in germany above realize that they have higher expectations various levels of the program. as seven of the past year. many somalis continue to be optimistic and more importantly in gauging what is going on in somalia both not only in sending remittances, but the downside the political structure across the country as many as 60 percent of the entire parliament is made up of guys more. something like 67 percent of the cabinet.

so they are vital to what is happening politically and socially and economically sometimes they're holding the government accountable to its national vision. >> thank you. >> thank you, senator. thank you to our witnesses today . the first and second panel, i remind all of us where we began which is the impact of the government shut down on the capacity the different agencies and departments within the united states to continue to carry out our development, diplomacy, intelligence command security missions. i am grateful that all of our witnesses were able to come and testify today and appreciate the senators corporation in carrying forward this year in which i think is an important part of our ongoing discussion of our role in the region. i will keep the hearing record open until friday this week so that members of the committee are not able to join as my submit written questions for the record. with that this hearing is your

line adjourned. >> coming up next on c-span2, the irs director of the affordable care act testifies about implementing a program. that is followed by the final debate between the two candid it's in that new jersey's special alexian. later, the chinese ambassador to the u.s. >> on the next washington journal the latest of a government shut down and the approaching debt ceiling limit. new look at the republican approach to these issues with representative lynyrd lance from new jersey, member of the energy and commerce committee. we will be joined by california democratic representative george miller, a member of the education and work force committee. live on c-span every day and

7:00 a.m. eastern. >> family research council annual value voters some of the guest tomorrow morning >> before she was first lady she taught at the clarke institute for the deaf. throughout her life she helped raise awareness about educating the deaf. watch a program on first lady grace coolidge saturday at 7:00 p.m. eastern on c-span and la monday night per series continues. >> year on the campus of stanford university. it is significant is this was the primary residence.

qian sets a strong grasp of design in the issue was not an architect alecky to a lot of the lawyers all drawings relating to the design and construction. it then funds surely came from our travel. it architecture from her travels in north africa when she traveled with herbert hoover. >> a great legacy because she designed the house, created it. it was inspired by her ideas, and she had a very close involvement in all aspects of the house's creation. >> meet first lady monday night live at nine eastern on c-span, also on c-span radio and c-span.org. >> the senate banking committee examine the implications of the u.s. to defaulting on its financial obligations in a

hearing on thursday. former oklahoma governor and current president of the american banking association and former congressman can bentsen spoke about the risk of a deeper recession. here's a look. you can see this in its entirety on our website : c-span.org. >> as noted by my fellow panelists if the united states defaults on its debts and ends it is calamitous. we have to think and in respect to what has occurred recourse of the last number of years from 1789 when george washington became president and our republic was established until the year 2000 the national debt was $5 trillion. according to the by -- our diminishing panel between 2000

and 2009 that national debt roughly doubled, a little bit less than doubled. now it's going to double again. the figures are scoldings, and i am sure that the congressional panel as well as some symbols found the same thing. the year 2020 it will be a trillion dollars a year just to pay the interest on the debt. by the year 2025 every set of federal tax revenue of a social security, medicare, and interest on the debt. what is required is to get through the default time because it will obviously dramatically raise interest rates and create havoc in the community banking environment, most particularly the ability to borrow and lend money and then sit down progressively and in a bipartisan fashion to focus on this right away train. the average person retired path.

so all the actuarial tables are off. we're mercifully living longer which is causing huge stresses in our ability to provide for the elderly in the united states and go continue to deepen in darken of the course of the next 20 years. >> two things. one is voluntarily defaulting on the debt is is something that does not make any logical sense. it will create huge operational problems in the financial markets that will permeate across the markets. treasuries of houston has grown, so we will have municipal bond issues. the it will have dramatic consequences and liquidity and should create liquidity crises. even with potential or crowns to

deal with defaulted coupons. the other thing i would say is with respect to a long-term fiscal condition, to default voluntarily would make resolving the long term fiscal imbalances just that much more difficult. so it seems to me that it does not make any sense to do so if you do not have to for. >> from the real estate perspective i think that we would have -- we would fall back into a deeper recession. there is no doubt in my mind that that would happen. if we've reached a debt ceiling impasse the default on u.s. debt could be very long lasting. interest rates would undoubtedly rise, meaning less people could afford to buy or refinance homes. housing prices would plummet, and you would have a catastrophe

in the real-estate industry which would lead the economy back into a deep recession, if not a depression. it also raises the rate at which it would borrow and would make it more difficult for us to meet our debts in the future. i see no possibility of it being a good outcome. it is going to be disastrous. >> i think the key element here is confidence. we're the biggest borrower in the world. we have to engender confidence in the people who are living as money. treasury has a history of repayments and this move up during has created that high level of confidence that permits just about at very very low rates. i do not think it is in the interests of the american people to do anything to give our investors less confidence in the united states which would include either failing to repay or amassing so much debt that it it will not be supported. >> the irs affordable care act

director testified wednesday about her agency's role in implementing alcoa. sarah held ingram appear before the house oversight and government relations committee. this is just over four hours. [inaudible conversations]

[inaudible conversations] americans have a right to know that the money washington takes from them at the irs is well spent and second, americans deserve an efficient and effective government that works for them. our duty is to protect these rights along with every, every right articulated in the constitution. marcel masse of civility is told government accountable the taxpayers because they have a right to know what they get from the government.

it is our job to work tirelessly in partnership with this and what started to deliver the facts to the american people and bring genuine reform. today the american people are suffering through a second week of a partial shutdown created by an inability of congress and president obama to compromise, to reach an agreement on funding the government. more importantly, funding the government today is virtually impossible without dealing with entitlements. one of the central issues in dispute is obamacare, formerly called the affordable care act, but since no part of it makes it more affordable acceptor subsidies, but the president's and the congress have chosen to call it obamacare. at today's hearing we will : obamacare. three and half years after the affordable care act can law, the administration is struggling to launch a massive program and, in

fact, it is failing. it is the chatter on my time, the that you can probably download anything and everything faster than you can get on to an irs site. the fact is that while no mitigation in their responsibility to both pay taxes or to buy obamacare, americans are unable to get on the site. if they get on the site is confusing, and without a doubt there are few choices. the promise of obamacare to bring people better health care for less has done just the opposite to melt care rates in the private sector that have risen precipitously and the promise to provide you the opporunity to keep the health care you have his son just the opposite. if you go to these changes is unlikely that you're going to find the availability of your doctor or your health care and,

in fact, and there's a thousand americans are being thrown out of health care programs and not to the exchanges as a result of this law. we are not here today to really gate the questions of a partisan , anti credit the controlled house and senate on a completely partisan basis passing a law 2400 pages plus and say you will find out what is in it after it passes. we're not here to do that, but it is the result of that kind of legislation that has led us to find that after three years of our witness working at the irs with partisan officials at the white house on an almost daily basis, we have the implementation of all one-sided we know with all type of law. today we will hit a number of areas, including did the irs plan to the failed, whether they

fail to plan in the windows open and transparent and consistent with the law. just as 90% of an iceberg is below water, the problem in user experience on the website generally torre pipefishes is that happened behind the scenes on the back end. previous series have shown that even the contractor chosen to implement the data sharing his one that has had failures that have resulted in a privileged information, including social security numbers being lost. it is undoubtedly that this will occur again since every stage, doesn't those of individuals al have accessed your taxpayer information as part of obamacare , and you, in fact, have no control over air those people on and how they're selected. additionally some of the most vulnerable among us are being sold them signed up for obamacare but people who have no training in any of the

protections of sensitive health care from nation, but that is the law, and we will go through. today's cherry has a lot to do with the 47 new provisions, including 18 new tax is expected to raise $1 trillion over the next ten years in a program that will cost many times that with other taxpayers. obamacare gives the irs power to force americans to purchase health care and levy a penalty / techs as determined by the supreme court of those who are delinquent. yet even though the employer mandate has a penalty of $3,000 per worker, it is clear that it is often better for the employer to dump their workers and their retirees in order to avoid in honor set of new rules. that is part of what this committee has been looking at and, in fact, while the treasury

apartment plans to send health insurance subsidies directly to insurance companies, if the treasury since too much health-insurance the plan is for the irs to go after taxpayers to collect the overpayment. yes, if they're is a mistake made, you will pay for it. in the wake of the irs scandal caused by an art @booktv effort to target americans, americans concerned about how those personal and private information have every reason to be concerned. you will have access to the highly personal health and financial information, a great many people, most of whom you don't know. there will be no control over it at the federal level or state level off. it ease the requirements of the privacy act. initially the irs has repeatedly made mistakes in disclosing information below most often conservative groups and their down-. those kinds of mistakes can be amplified repeatedly, either to

liberally or accidentally. we're still trying to determine that. they seem to keep coming. the accidental targeting of hundreds of conservative groups including tea party groups has not abated. in fact, many of the groups of still not received approvals or deny else, something the witness knows something about. what information will the act irs be sharing with the officials outside the agency's? my ranking members of state of maryland leaves some question about whether or not the state will take the information collected and use it in other ways, including punishment are other tax levies. the truth is go once the government has more information about everything including a cost of health care, who lives near rome, new york claiming, it will add to the ability of the

federal and state taxes to increase. the u.s. government accountability office describes the data of, and i quote, a complex undertaking involving the court inactions of multiple federal state and private stakeholders. during the committee hearing in july assistant inspector general for audit with the treasury inspector general for tax a administration testified that in fact today remains concerned about the protection of confidential taxpayer information that will be provided to state and federal agencies broadly. the assistant inspector general also testified at it would be difficult to complete all of the interagency testing of the hub prior to october 1st and, in fact, not all of it was done. we went live with pater software for the affordable care act, and it shows every day that the american people struggle to try to get information.

in september the problem became more than just worries win in minnesota and exchange submitted to accidently command and repeat accidentally releasing sensitive information that contains names, addresses, social security numbers for 2400 brokers. this is, as i said earlier, just the tip of the expert. let us be honest. obamacare first week is been a mess, we cannot undo the last week, and there, no mulligans. this will continue day after day, and there will be no due overs. we can only but the law is not ready for primetime. look for ways to mitigate it, and ask for the administration to be understanding that when men and congress create, it will always be fought. today's witness is here to testify and answer our questions. she is the director of the irs affordable care act of this.

before overseeing obamacare implementation for the address ms. hall ingram was the commissioner for the irs tax exempted government entities division serving full time in that role from 2009 until 2010. the illustration is already delayed a revised several parts of the law and in many cases unilateral action was correctly at odds with congressional law. many americans have been cut easy feeling that the administration is flying a locker by the seat of its pants. there are some sobering recognitions that executive orders not contemplated seem to be an everyday occurrence where changes seem to be, by definition, and possible. it is our hope ms. hall and will spell of the challenges being face so that we stop reading this uprising, yet still unsurprising news of how the implementation is going poorly.

in closing, it is that going to be the committee's final heat on obamacare petition for. the ranking member has indicated he was to hear more from iras witnesses. i do, too. our intent is to bring additional irs officials for testimony in the future. today we have focused on the gasol in her. i might note two things. first, repeatedly when we have asked, we have been asked to have deferred and allow other witnesses. today the determination was that the person who, by definition, was at the center of the targeting of conservative groups from two dozen nine until 2010 and a person who has owned obamacare since its passage, virtually since its passage revegetation must be heard from. although there are individuals behind the witness that will not be sworn or permitted to

testify. the only witness today is ms. hall in from, and i will take responsibility directly for asking the commissioner not to attend since he was not there at the time and was brought in only when the scandal over targeting conservatives became a problem. we have a fact witness in front of us. my hope is that she will be candid in the release of the facts. i have been notified that the ranking member intends to ask for pictures of this hall in room being with past presidents. i object to that. this is not about whether she is republican or democrat, not about the politics of anybody at the irs. the address by statute is limited to two political appointees. it is critical that we ask the questions about the non-political appointees, not the council cannot the commissioner, what are at their

actions, not their politics, registrations, leanings, or so stated intentions. people are not to be tested the aerospace on how they vote. there to be judged based on the job they do and how they do it. with that recognize the ranking member. >> what are you talking about? >> you want to show that? >> i am not going to. we were handed these by her personal attorney. they're pictures of past presidents. a minority requested in his letter attorney told us. is that correct? >> what is the big deal the we want to see pictures so would is with president bush? >> mr. cummings, you have cussed the leak and the people have tried to paint political republican versus democrat. some pilots someone is a republican or was appointed by republican that somehow the

claim of targeting conservatives is up there. the fact is, this committee's tucket and the closures will include extraneous material, but not that designed to forge some question about penny somebody is republican or democrat. i do not know vigilantes' politics and do not intend to ask. >> mr. chairman, i just wanted -- the way politics comes up in all of this is of every single witness that has been interviewed, your staff has asked the political affiliation. we have had this conversation of four called by the way. so i would speeches -- of go into but a restatement. today our nation is entering its ninth day, the ninth day of house speaker government shutdown. the speaker has refused to allow

the house to vote on a clean continuing resolution that would end the shutout, even though it would pass with a bipartisan majority. instead he is allowing a small group of republican extremists to pursue the ideological crusade, to repeal of the affordable carex when put insurance companies back in charge of services for millions of americans. even worse, our country is rapidly approaching the debt ceiling deadline of october october 17th. republicans seem unwilling or willing to jeopardize the full faith and credit of the united states of america unless we eliminate the floral care act. even though, as the law of the land and has been upheld, house

republicans have noted more than 40 times to repeal the affordable character. so although today's hearing may be in the rhetoric of improving the law, nobody truly believes republicans want that to happen. instead today's hearing is an obvious attempt to link to issues that have nothing to do with each other. the implementation of the affordable care act and the so-called irs tea party scandal. for nearly a year republicans have been railing against today's hearing witness for being the supposed mastermind behind the ira starting a two-party groups and for being

some sort of political operative who is now in charge of implementing obamacare. one of our committee members, congressman jordan said ms. ingram, and i quote, headed up this scandal. he said, and i quote, i cannot wait to -- i cannot wait until we get her in front of a committee. congressman tim griffin accused ms. griffin of being to radically in search of irs targeting. he said, and i quote, she provided her read this customer service. under her watch. now she has gone out to the same implementing obamacare. and now a member of our committee criticized the bonuses received her employment at the

ira's should be suspended if when. after hearing directly from 30 witnesses have thousands of pages of documents, our committee has attained absolutely no evidence whatsoever that ms. ingram was involved in any way with developing or directing the use of inappropriate criteria to screen tea party groups or any other groups applying for tax-exempt status. in fact, we found just the abbasid. ms. ingram left her position as commissioner of the tax-exempt government entities division in december 2010.

six months before her former subordinates became aware of inappropriate criteria used to screen applicants for tax-exempt status, russell of georgia, the inspector general of the ira's stated that we lender of the inappropriate criteria changes in 2011, six months after ms. ingram left palm of her new position implementing dca. there is another problem with these of wheat to cover allegations. ms. ingram is not a political operative. she is a dedicated public servants with the excelled republican and democratic administrations.

in 2004 she was awarded the nation's highest civil service award. it distinguishes a give presents to ragwort proposed -- reward for her outstanding tax law and her highly effected if efforts to combat terrorism financing. and although you will not hear this from our republican colleagues, after president bush gave her the award as seagram also received a bonus and recognition of her exemplary service. that bonus was larger than any she received during the obama administration. dragging ms. ingram through the mud and impugning a reputation is part of a broader republican campaign against the dca.

it is worse -- the worst kind of politics. it is intellectually dishonest and it is unfair to this highly regarded public servant. october 1st was a sober day for our country, not because the speaker shut down the government, because it was the first day the areas of americans signed up for health care. in the first two days alone 7 million americans visited health care. with stores the rest of traffic ever experienced and medicare's oversight. there will continue to be challenges implementing this law a lot to think missing reversers under both democratic and

republican administrations and for work which by all accounts is an outstanding finally i would like to place the document in the record that is a letter from mr. porto, or acting commissioner. since today's hearing was about iras of lamentation s.c. last week to invite all four officers in charge of this program. on monday you refused. i heard you this morning a few minutes to go when he said that we are not faced with this, and employees to you that. other witnesses would come forth later. so i asked these officials to attend today along with the irs commissioner in case committee

members have questions outside the scope of responsibilities. last night i received a letter stating that he was personally told that he entities other officials were not welcome. essentially they were banned from the hearing room. pliocene a lot of things. i have never seen a committee chairman tell that an agency that he could not be present during a public hearing where one of his own employees. that will read the letter. i don't want said -- i see moving around a little bit. it says here it is stated in october 8, just me. tear ranking member cummings, i am responding to your letter today requesting that i attend tomorrow's hearing along with

personnel who have relevant subject matter expertise in matters relevant to implementation. i spoke directly to the chairman this evening regarding your request and the chairman requested that i did not attend. it said the chairman suggested we have technical experts that could be available bill would not be called to give direct testimony. given our respect for the chairman's authority in this matter i have decided to agree to the chair resurrection and will not attend in person. i remain concerned this you would not be able to provide comprehensive testimony regarding irs efforts to implement the dca given that many of the significant harrison to reason this area follow signs for direct purview.

however, it is my understanding that the chairman's decision promising room will be the only witness for tomorrow's hearing is now final and a thank-you for your ongoing assistance. >> i reserve and recognize myself in opposition. the gentleman in his opening statement made it clear that he thinks that the targeting of conservative groups is a phony scandal while the presence is the opposite said it was serious the june and has repeatedly wanted to make it clear that his job is to stop the work of the committee. it was an individual -- >> she just said something that is absolutely not true. i have not done that have resent you saying that. >> i appreciate your resentment among but will continue. >> i tried to stop the work of

this committee. >> at the last hearing your requested for my four witnesses, and i give it to you. the policy of this committee is and has been under both republican and democratic leaders that the minority is generally accommodative of the witness the wood is germane. you have repeatedly bees that. when he said a direct invitation for a number of individuals including someone that was not there during the planning of the affordable character will be on a matter of days in the name of the commissioner he was highly inappropriate to be a fact witness because she was out there before will not be there in a couple of weeks. in conversation with the commissioner, and i will allow this in afterwards -- >> well thank you. >> the fact is it conversations with the commissioner i said of course you can't have any and all people that would help her

answering the questions. an esoteric question of whether you there will be for obamacare. but we have asked for repeated the end deferred her on a previous occasion even though she is the head of the department. highest individual with a lawn service. elections have consequences. i have the responsibility of announcing what hearing will be. sometimes once the request. day of the prime irresponsibility for selecting the witnesses and of always taken seriously the suggestion is a witnesses you what. when they are timely have always provided at least one. that is not true of my predecessor fact, although a friend and good man, he often did not even give me one witness the decision to have the head of the implementation was my a dedicated can long serving

public servant in venice and not to be here for i thought would be a stays the opportunity to say why will you let the commissioner he did know about it before and will be there another week to it. for that reason i will allow the letter in, but understand that the attempt is to get the truth. this committee has tried to hold as many hearings, including those on such as you requested and will continue to do so. with that -- >> i was not finished. man finished? >> i have accepted unanimous consent. >> i was not finished with my statement. >> the german may have an additional minutes to take the. >> i am going to say we have a title this is examining the irs rule. that is the title of the airing. you know, you have made an allegation that i'm trying to stop everything. i'm trying to get to the truth,

the whole truth, and nothing but the troops of may god. that is why i resent your statement. with that, i yield back. >> i think the gentleman. >> you unrecognized that subcommittee chairman since his name was mentioned. >> i just want to say finally she is here. it we been tried for five months i was beginning to think there was no such person. couple of months ago we had a joint subcommittee scheduled. we get a call that said she was not coming. months we haven't tried to get this lady. a lady who has been at the center of the storm of two of these diseases country is to live in recent history, the targeting of conservative groups , and implementation of obamacare. here is lady who was the direct

boss of los lerner and today is the first time she's been in front of this committee. the scandal has been known about for five months. a lady for the last three years has been head of the office for implementing the affordable care act and today is the first time she comes in front of a committee. this is unbelievable to of the greatest issues facing the country, and the first time she comes in front of the government oversight committee. and mr. cummings breeze of the letter we got yesterday. they tried again yesterday to not ever be year. it raises one simple question. why. what did she know if the irs does not want this committee, this congress, and the american people to know? what does she know? what i they tried to hide? so i am, mr. chairman, thank you for your persistence. i'm glad it's finally happened. it is astonishing that it took

five months, but i'm glad it's finally happened. >> one more thing, and then i yield back. >> mr. cummings raise this issue pvc is not the right person. let's put up -- this is the briefing. put up the first light. this was the briefing given to the irs oversight board just this past may, may 2nd 200013 pier because it gave the briefing? who do you think? believe we have been waiting to get in front of this committee. don't take my word for it. we have the minutes from the meeting. we can put that slide that. the minutes from the meeting, affordable care act of state led by sarah hall abram, the director hca office. so he did not want her to come today, is not let her come for five months of a suit was given after a brief the irs.

liquidus is to talk about. she discussed the security and save their programs the irs doesn't place regarding the sharing of data among partners when including those for the affordable care program. this is a clearly needed front of the congress. it just took us five months to give her your. >> the gentleman yield price of be happy to. >> you said that i was trying to stop the heart of a? disease say that? >> we have a letter indicating he did not want her -- >> that has nothing to do with me. >> you just read a different letter. >> the 09 yield? >> if the german losses bed, the record from the chairman is in fact that mr. cummings tried to get four additional witnesses he tied to not have sarah hall in new come and the request, no matter where originated to not ever testify to they've repeated the came from a treasure.

>> here is the point. why in the world does it take five months to get the lead who was there when the targeting of conservative groups started, los lawyer's direct positive for the past three years is in implementing the affordable character alive in the world should have taken five months. >> this year is important. >> seven days in which to submit the opening statements. will now recognize the panel. >> chairman. >> the chairman will recognize your opening statement. would you like a few moments? >> of course. >> is a woman is recognized. >> i think you for this of eternity to discuss the irs role in implementing and enforcing the affordable care act. i look forward to today's testimony and i would like to hear how about the nationwide dragnet that finally has snared

our witness and brought her here to it. i will say, the irs has begun to play and will continue to play a key role in both the implementation and enforcement of the affordable care act, the part of health and human services manages the implementation of the hca, with the ira's insisting mostly by administering subsidies to those who qualify under the law in penalizing those who don't comply of law. to determine which individuals fall into the latter category, the irs along with the centers for medicare and medicaid services operates a data have allowing those applying for coverage under health care exchanges to easily determine which plans and subsidies they qualify for. this data have does not command the repeat, does not receive on maintain any personal health information on medical records.

it restated never storing it in texas is only the information needed to determine individual eligibility for coverage and tax credits. these tax credits are desperately needed in my district, nearly nine and a half% of my constituency lives below the poverty line. 70,000, and that is to and a half percent, do not have health care insurance including 60500 children. we will be able to utilize the services offered of the affordable care act and coordinated by the irs to finally get covered. clearly my constituents need the affordable care act. i look forward to today's testimony and want to echo the comments of the ranking member that this effort to somehow link the at sense to generate and gin up a scandal of the mass and a link that with implementation of the affordable care act, this is

quite an act of limbo dancing going on, and i will be interested to see if my colleagues across the aisle can actually carry out the idea of linking the suppose the irs can no of the implementation of the hca would we don't even have the people who were actually most knowledgeable in charge of those areas here as a witness. in fact, there were apparently instructed not to come. with that i yield back. >> i think the gentleman. we now go to, as i said will say again, members of seven days in which to submit opening statements for the record. it will now recognize our first panel. sarah homeland, director of the affordable care act office in farley commissioner of tax-exempt and government entities at the internal revenue service. ms. tigert carson to committee rules would you please rise to these one?

raise your right hand testimony you're about to give will be the truth cultures, and nothing but the truth. let the record indicate the witness answered in the affirmative your entire opening statement will be placed in the record, so you need not read verbatim. please try to stay as close to five minutes as you can. it's a lady is recognized. >> chairman, wrecking member, members of the committee, my name is sarah hall ingram, the director of the affordable care act office of the services and enforcement part of the ira's. i appreciate your virginity to discuss the work of the irises during to fill our versus release under the dca. irs implementation of the tax provisions represent the collaborative work of all parts of the ira's. i want to make clear that my office is responsible for only one piece of this large puzzle.

that piece involves the business operations, flows, and procedures. significant work is also being done by an affirmation technology division, our office safeguards, and the chief counsel's office. the written testimony we provided the committee provides input from these various functions. i would give you the best bet i can of our implementation efforts from my perspective, but others who are accompanying me today may be better position in many cases dasyure particular questions. they include chief technology officer terry mulholland, director of privacy, government liaison, and disclosure command healthcare council. the irs is charged with implementing the tax-related divisions of the hca. many have already been implemented, a major effort in this regard in los the delivery of premium tax credits the low billions of american families access to affordable private

health insurance coverage through the new health-insurance marketplace. the department of health and human services has personal responsibility for defining the structure and operations of the marketplaces. open enrollment for insurance purchase to the marketplace is began an eye to refers to and coverage can begin as soon as january 1st 2014. ..