>> our cemeteries will be open for our normal hours, which is sunrise to sunset. you may see some of our maintenance standards go of it because we won't be able to

maintain the high standards we would like to have, but that's all retrieval once we have a budget. but focus here is on taking their families on the most painful day for them and making sure they feel that their veteran is respected and has been accorded dignified burial. >> thank you, mr. secretary. i appreciate that assurance, and your current work to make sure that's available for our veterans eric and, obviously, their as well. you've seen the images of other federal places and locations that have been barricaded to our veterans. but i want to make certain we keep the cemeteries open, and appreciate your work doing that. i yield back my time. >> i think it does go without saying that we all care about the veterans of this country. and what we do have is a failure to communicate, negotiate, and

there has been a breakdown in the institutional process of how appropriation bills are, in fact, passed through both houses of congress. if i'm not mistaken i think that the milk on bill that has been passed out of the house only had four dissenting votes. so suffice it to say that it was an extremely bipartisan piece of legislation. i'd like to echo that. i would like to get a jump 30 seconds to apologize to senator reid. that's beneath this committee on crushing someone's commitment to veterans. we may have differences on policy and i don't. we don't have differences on this country i would give 30 seconds to the gentleman if he wishes to claim it. >> thank you. i was asking the question given its very clear as the chairman has indicated that senator reid controls the count and has the

opportunity to move the bill to the floor. and since the shutdown has occurred unless there was some recorded votes yesterday, we have had '70s in which there's space i reclaim my time. disappointed to say the least. i hope that goes on record. the one thing i would say is this committee and i'm proud to serve on it is a place one of the few places that still works in congress. the collaboration in here is incredible. the work that's done down to the granular level by subcommittees are a power and that's a testament t to you, mr. presidet that you give the power to people. i sat in this very chair arguing and making the case for advanced appropriations on vha with my colleagues and we did that. that was progress. we have said in the progress. you know, mr. secretary, the work you've done. i'm proud of it and i said time and time again i'm a staunchest supporter butcher harshest critic. when you get something wrong we bring it up here and we figure out how to make it better. the conscience that sets behind reps and millions of veterans expect that of us. and it still works.

what's so disappointing about this is an what's so when we get into this is we are wasting valuable time and resources by a self-inflicted wound that should be going towards our veterans. and it's so frustrating, and what happens, i appreciate my callings on this but here's what happens. it starts to be cancerous into this committee. last week when the bill came up on the veterans to try to do a c.r. and make the case come you're trying to find ways and i respect that, but in that bill, mr. runyan held a field hearing and made a great case for a veterans cemetery that's the need for decades in southern minnesota. there's a grant process that you administered that ranked as number one. release ago we got that notice and it was a thank you from thousands, 56,000 veterans that were going to get the. last week's bill zeroed that a. i know you didn't do that on

purpose just that on purpose to stick it in the eye of my veterans but i can't support that. but within 180 seconds of my vote the campaign committee on the republican side said on an attack i don't support veterans by not doing the. there's lots of ratings to tell people not to vote for me. not supporting veterans is not one of them. we've worked to get that right and that's where we get the point where people's disgust, anger, frustration, we can come together. the continues going back and forth, i don't question a single person's commitment to our veterans. i think you're wrong on some of the policy. this is the place to debate that. not a marshall law boldly goes to the floor with no amendments of the campaign committee can send out an attack ad and try to win an election while veterans are sitting at home saying widely congress? 20 dizzy anymore proof? so mr. secretary, i'm frustrated you here but i appreciate you. i understand where some the questions are going. this wouldn't be so bad if you just prioritize differently.

but the questions i was going to ask you answered. interagency collaboration is breaking down. that is incredibly important. i.t. and as it impacts electronic medical records that we fought together for seven years i've been sitting here trying to get that right. that progress is going backwards. i don't really have any questions for you. i trust that you, and the thing about this is the comment that we should we talk about furloughs, that he is an organization of people. furloughs are the most critical issue in the. it's the best in the world tickets because of the people. when those people have and certainly those people are laid off, those people are not there, it can impact. that's why we advanced appropriated but, you know, it yourself, mr. runyan as the beautiful question, not having the i.t. budget advanced appropriated hazard beautiful machine unhooked in new jersey that can't help patients. brought that a. that doesn't make any sense. we should be talking about that and i compliment and in with the

chairman and the ranking member have approached this the right way. the fix to this and we anticipate three years ago when we did advanced appropriations, remove veterans from this fight. don't allow people to grandstand and use them as pawns and continue to work to go forward. there is a suggestion on the advanced appropriations on the full va funding is the way to go. without i think he and i yield back. >> thank you very much. if i can ask the committee's indulgence for just one second and recognize ms. kirkpatrick for an introduction. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i just wanted to welcome to the committing mr. and mrs. silver star in the back of the room. their son, daniel, an arizona veteran committed suicide earlier this year. we are going to be doing a roundtable with them in this committee room at 1:30 p.m. i want to acknowledge their presence and invite everybody to participate in a roundtable at 1:30 p.m. i yield back.

thank you, mr. chairman. [applause] >> we welcome the summers to the the committee room and the congress and we certainly at our condolences to you, and thank you for your sons service. we are extremely sorry for your loss. with that, mr. amity, you are recognized. >> thanks, mr. chairman. going back to cemetery thing for just a second, under the heading of triage until something changes, d. your present procedures allow on a case-by-case basis if there is private funding available to go ahead and either compensate the va personnel at cemeteries to perform burials in a timely manner? is there anything that would prevent a summary said listen, we want to pay the expense to go ahead and do this in the normal instead of warehousing people, is there anything that prohibits that from happening?

>> congressman, i'm not aware that there is anything that prohibits that. but again, we tried to serve all the veterans that come to us and as a credible a manner as we can, or at least the appearance of equal treatment. and so just let me research that and come back to you. what i would say is we continue our burial operations, just at a rate less than we are accustomed to. last year, 122000 veterans were laid to rest. >> i appreciate that. i'm just saying if and instance developed somewhere in the country at a cemetery where some assistance going to be a few weeks and they say we'll go ahead and include expense, or so much as we will occur, we will occur the expense to have it happen in three days are now or something like that, it's not something -- i guess my question is that you get back to me on is, there's nothing that prohibits an infusion of funds

from a non-appropriate private source to allow somebody to do that in whatever the customary manner is? >> congressman, my guess is if it were permitted i would be doing it now. my guess is that these are funded positions and people have been put on furlough because of the law, and i want to be careful here that i don't suggest that we have ways to work around it. but i will take a look at it. >> when you look at it, make very certain it is at no cost to the government so it's reimbursement for whatever the costs are, so if furlough people have to be brought back at non-government expense in there better be a pretty long opinion that says no, we will not allow somebody to pay our folks, whatever that expense may be. without i'll give back. thank you, mr. secretary. >> may i just conclude this

thought, mr. chairman. >> yes. >> i would say that the law directed furlough and it's less the cost but it's the decision that drove us to do their i want to be sure that i'm clear on the law before i answer. i think there is requirement for me here to be in compliance. >> if i may, mr. chairman, to that i think is also required for you to look at the over all mission which is bigger than the law. so when you look at those laws i get to furlough. iceland measure everything is looked at so those trying to be entered in a cemetery get the full benefit of all the laws before the little situation that we're in now. >> i'm happy to do that. >> mr. second, i know we're still in a very fluid situation but we reached out and, we're talking about pts and indian health service and whether they could get their health provided there. it's as employees of the indian health service which provide

direct health service to tribal citizens will largely be unaffected by the shutdown and that they would continue to provide direct clinical health care services as well as referrals for contracted services that cannot be provided through the clinic. so again, we are just somewhat confused as to the comment that was made in regard to post-traumatic stress, which i think everybody on this committee is very concerned with. and i did it, your statement that you came in here with today paints the worst possible picture that's out there. but in your statement it does not talk about the hundreds of thousands of va employees that are still working in health care is provided, so we just want to be honest with the questions in the comments that are provided. i'm not saying that you were not. i'm guessing that there was an inference of earlier on that veterans with post-traumatic stress would not impact get their treatment, and we're funny that there appears to be no corn

anywhere in which they will not have that treatment provided to them. mr. overworked, you are recognized for five minutes. >> thank you, mr. chairman. mr. secretary, thank you for the presentation in your answers and responses to our questions and statements so far. they been helpful. i wanted to add to the comment you made about the va and veterans being dependent on other federal departments and agencies that may or may not be funded in a piecemeal, many continuing resolution approach i want to note that there are nearly 600,000 veterans who work for the federal government, and that constitutes nearly 30% of the entire federal workforce. so these men and women have served our country who are being furloughed or working without a clear idea when they are being paid, are being hurt regardless of what we're able to do when it

comes to funding the va and the different agencies and departments within the va. that's especially important to me as a representative for el paso, texas, would have the fifth highest concentration of federal employees of any committee in the country. 43,000 people that have reps and work for the federal government, and if that 27% holds true, well over 10,000 of them are veterans are being affected by this current shutdown. so i think it adds to the point that you made that we cannot afford to look at this on a piecemeal basis. when i look at the options to get out of this, i want, in the spirit of cooperation, join my colleagues in urging the senate and our federal government to move forward on advanced funding for military construction and veterans affairs. i think that's critical. in the short term, i think our best option is what everyone refers to as a clean funding bill, or a clean c.r. that funds

all of your services and programs and personnel at a sustainable level. the piecemeal approach that we saw last week, and i appreciate those who want to address the issue that way, but it had $0 for medical aesthetic research, no funding for the national cemetery administration, no money for general administration, information technology. at a point where we're trying to get veterans who want to file fully developed claims do that online. but because when they do that their wait time which is now 450 days in el paso comes down under 100 days. if we are not funding i.t. we are not helping them to get the response that they need and that they deserve and they avert. construction on major projects and my projects is zeroed out, as our grants to state of the homes and state senators. that's why i support a clean funding bill, no strings attached, let's fund the entire federal government perhaps on a short-term basis where we can

work out some larger deal. that dean is the quickest, cleanest way to help everyone involved, especially our veterans. i think that's why presidents and leaders of national veterans service organizations have come out against a piecemeal approach. they want to see if tackle this comprehensively. i know that's what you're targeted and ultimately what all of us want to do. to add to those national vehicle, we reached out yesterday to our local vsos, instead i'm going of a chance to ask questions of the secretary, would like to know what you want me to ask. much of it you've already addressed. post 165 says the pda budget is just as important as the vha budget and i think we all want to say that moves forward. david of the american g.i. forum is concerned about an issue that you brought up. what happens if the shutdown process and where veterans who are now in homes who are

homeless, will you have the resources to take care of them? richard britain, vice commander of the american legion, talks about shutdown exacerbated problems that veterans already have. david garcia, commander of the post 187 talks about veterans who are recipients of va and social security benefits having a really hard time after november 1. and then k. davis, president of veterans of foreign wars came up with a solution. her solution was term limits for members of congress if we are unable to figure this problem out. but the frustration and the questions really are not with you there but are with us. and with the need to respond to this in a way that will get the government up and running, functioning again for all departments because veterans work in all of them. for all veterans services because veterans are impacted by all of them. and again, from my perspective, the quickest, cleanest way to do this to have a government up and running tonight is devoted or a clean funding bill.

so mr. secretary, again thank you for your presence today, for answering our questions and comment on her statements. my time is up so i we go back to the chairman, but thank you. >> mr. coffman, you're recognized. >> thank you, mr. secretary. also thank the men and women who work for your department to take care of those who have made so many sacrifices in defense of our freedom. my question goes to the four hospitals that are under construction by the va. and that a contingency plan states that certain quote major construction and facilities management support functions won't be suspended during this shutdown. what has been the status of the four ongoing major projects during the shutdown? >> congressman, i indicated that

where we have work on site, that work will continue. our administrative oversight responsibility will be diminished, but we will exercise those responsibilities. payments to contractors and, therefore, payments to the subs, and administrative process that will be slowed but in time payment will be made. we just don't have the folks to do that as robustly as we would like. but in terms of site work with supervision that will continue in those locations you described. >> as you know, the payment has already been, the process has already been very slow according to a gao report that came out in april. in terms of these setbacks that you talk about, will they affect

calm in your view, the completion date and the budget totals for each project for the four major hospitals? >> our work is slowed, the longer this goes. we do -- i would be concerned that we begin to affect the end of the project that we continue to slide project execution to the right. >> thank you. mr. chairman, i yield back. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i wish to associate myself with the remarks with the gentleman from texas. mr. o'rourke. he stated very clearly my sentiments about what needs to be done, a clean c.r. and i also want to thank the chairman for the tone he set forth his committee, very

bipartisan sentiments. i thank you, mr. chairman, understand that each of us on this committee regardless of party have a deep commitment to our veterans get so i thank you for that, mr. chairman. let me also state you know, beyond the bipartisan bill that we passed on milk on veterans, even the budget control act of 2011 reflects that bipartisan spirit in the fact that exempted the veterans administration from sequestration cuts. and it's my belief that, it's my conjecture that what is happening in the senate and the hold up with consideration of this bill has to do with the complexities of sequestration and the divisions that are occurring between our two sides. there is a reluctance to pass all the appropriations bills until we see in total what we are dealing with in terms of whether we are going, how we will have to deal with that

limit, whether related or some negotiation is going to happen. we need to get to negotiations on the bigger picture. i cherish this committee. i cherish being on it, because it is one corner of the congress that is still functional. and i want to fight fiercely to keep that spirit, and i thank the chairman for the small ways in this committee that he is trying to keep that alive. i yield back the balance of my time. i have to get back to a meeting in my office. >> thank you very much. looks like doctor winstead is gone. mr. bilirakis, you're recogniz recognized. >> thank you. thank you, mr. chairman. and thank you for your testimony, general. general, let's summarize again, i walked in just a little late on your statement, but which programs i understand because of legislation that we passed, the

outpatient clinics, hospitals are protected, is that correct? they will not be impacted. but tell me which programs will be impacted because of due to the shutdown but i think our constituents have a right to know. if you could briefly summarize i would appreciate it very much. >> congressman, the veterans health administration, because of its special opportunity to have advanced appropriations courtesy of the congress is funded, so that's hospitals, medical centers, hospitals, that sinners, community-based outpatient clinics, and every version of health care center in between. >> no exception, correct? >> no -- >> they will be funded? >> the only exception where there is impact is north chicago, where i say it is

operating but it's been an accepted category. everyone else in the va system is fully funded. >> thank you very much. which programs will be impacted, in your opinion? and if you can give me some deadlines. i know we want to a lot of this but i would like for you to summarize. >> all the other programs that are not advanced funded our impacted, and being impacted. some of this is the degree to which, and when they're going to be impacted, as a function of how much 2013 residual carryover funds we have available. a device that the congress authorizes, certain percentages that we are allowed to use as carryover to transition between budget years.

but if this continues, everyone of our departments will be impacted. we have a requirement in the benefits administration, even if we have expended the mandatory account and, therefore, have no necessary implication -- this is one of the call clauses for exception, to keep people working. at that point do we a significant requirement to furlough workforce who will be working until the end of this month, towards the end of this month. thereafter, we will have roughly a thousand folks operating in the 56 regional offices to ensure that we can receive, account, date stamp, and control claims that will continue to be

submitted, both through the normal process and through the call center. so there are people working in the call center as well. >> thank you very much, mr. chairman. i yield back. thank you, general. >> thank you, mr. chairman. mr. secretary, i know that you said that the va now don't use with the va but other departments also. and so those veterans receiving educational benefits and stipends under the g.i. bill and better attending school now because school has already started at various institutions, what will happen after november 1? if they won't get their money, have you talked to the colleges, the institutions, the universities? >> congresswoman, we are doing everything we can while we have mandatory funds available, at

least two accounts, two categories that will -- that we will expend money to cover immediately. one is the retroactive aspects of a claim, so someone who is due money for previous authorization up until this point, to the best of our ability we pay those. and for students currently in school, we pay those as well. but that draws down this mandatory account i'm speaking about. so on one november, before the end of this month it will be in a situation where i can no longer pay. and the one november payment that should be going out will not be able to do that unless more mandatory funding is provided. so if there is funding in the mandatory account, which has got to come through appropriation,

then i can accept people to continue to work to draw that down. without that, by law, i have to furlough these folks. >> so what happens to students who are already in classes that have already started the semester or the quarter, whichever they are on? >> well, at this point this is a crucial question because for students who have already registered and had their tuition and fees paid up front, i think they're going to be okay. and if they have drawn their book at stipends, then i think they are probably covered. every situation is different. but i will not be able to pay the monthly housing stipend. and that would be an issue. >> have the schools or the universities are the colleges made any kind of -- i'm sure there are aware of our shenanigans here.

>> i can assure you we've reached out to schools, and doing the best we can to get their support and cooperation to be able to carry this for payment. but the schools are not involved in the housing stipend. that's directly from va to the students, so that is an issue. and i would tell you that in my past experience, the schools are been quite cooperative. but there are 6000 of them, and so we want to be sure that we have contacted all of them. >> thank you so much for your testimony. thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you, mr. chairman. good to see you again, mr. secretary. you had mentioned earlier they would be delayed. we were notified more than four weeks ago there was already a delayed. so my question is, it's obvious has nothing to do with this government shutdown. so would your plan can be to expedite that once the furlough

workers are back? and if something was delayed prior to a shutdown, that it would be expedited after a shutdown? >> we will do our best to get back on schedule. it was going slower than we would like. at this is just exacerbated the situation. our effort will be to get all of these projects back online as soon as we can. >> then my second question, i appreciate that, my second question is according to the most recent monday report, the indianapolis regional office has 11,460 claims pending him has nothing to do with the government shutdown, this is prior to the shutdown in these claims are taking an average of 402 days to complete, over a year still in the state of indiana to process these claims. so my first question is, is there an urgent plan when these furlough workers come back to deal with these hotspots in the country? number two, if the act is signed by the president, are your employees coming back to work

the next morning? >> i don't know about the next morning, but as soon as they are notified weeks but that they will be and probably. >> what would that plan b for high impact areas with 11,000 veterans by no fault of their own from no fault of a government shutdown saving for over a year still waiting for claims to be mitigated on their behalf? >> congresswoman, again, i think you will recall we have made decisions that created an increase in the inventory, and increased the backlog. we predicted three years ago that that backlog would sort of hit the high point this year, and it did on 25 march. since that time we prioritize claims that were older than two years. essentially 99% of those are done. claims that are one year of age or older, we are well into 80% of taking it down from like

300,000 down into the double digits year. i'll have to look at indianapolis and see what the issues are. but they would be in this prioritization that we've been in. anything older than one year we intended to have done here before the end of this year. and we're on a track to do that. and would like to get back on. >> i appreciate. thank you, mr. chairman. i yield back my time. >> ms. titus, you're recognized for five minutes. >> thank you, mr. chairman. and thank you, mr. secretary, for being here. i will apologize, some won't, for the inappropriate attempt by people to drag you into the politics of this unfortunate situation. i'm the ranking member of the disability assistance subcommittee, and i carefully monitor those monday morning reports but i guess we won't be able to get those now because of this unnecessary shut down.

and i am optimistic about the strides you've made. we've heard in the committee about the 80% of the one you backlog, the 99% of the two-year backlogs. i think it's remarkable progress, and it's just a crying shame that some of that is going to now be pushed back because of this shutdown. we've spoken a number of times about what's happening in the reno office, which serves las vegas. it also has very long waiting periods. but we've address some of that. general mckeague has been out to visit. that's kind of in process and making some progress as still a long way to go. but i've been hearing some conflicting reports about the closing of the regional offices. some clothes, some not. could you can't go into some detail about how that choice is being made, or what's happening in those regional offices during this shutdown?

>> congresswoman, i sort of laid out a timeline here that i have roughly, the benefits administration, just rent figures, about 20,000 people, nearly a thousand of them have been furloughed two days ago. the remaining 12, 13,000 continue to work because there are mandatory funds available in the account, and i continued to draw down on fat. at the point that mandatory account is depleted before the end of this month, that will happen, at that point i have no necessary implication to continue to have this workforce present. and at that point, we will be forced to furlough these individuals. the law requires it. beyond that, we will keep a small workforce present. my understanding is all the regional offices and a national call center will have presence

in order to receive claims, date stamp claims, and control that property for the veterans who have made the effort to submit them. but it will be much reduced operation, received only and no processing. >> but he won't be making choices, say, between the waco office and the reno office or the indianapolis office. it's going to be across the board? >> that's correct. >> and if somebody walks in whether be someone there to receive acclaim, pages will be able to get information about the progress of their claim? is that basically how it will work? >> i will say yes the claims can be submitted. i will have -- by location. we are in facilities that are run by the general services administration, and merely walking in, i will have to find out exactly how that goes. but we are not the sole occupants of many of the regional offices.

many othe of the buildings in wh our regional offices are located, but that's a good point. i mean, that's something i will go check on. >> and if they called and they can get you, they are going to call our office to find out, so if they call your office to get an update about claims, what will happen? >> our national call center will be taking calls and they're going to be up and running spent but not the regional offices? >> regional offices will be much reduced, and my sense is they will be fully engaged in receiving and date stamping claims, and they won't be running a call center out of the regional offices. >> well, thank you very much. and thank you for whic what youe trying to do to make the most of a bad situation. i can only imagine the challenges you're facing are much greater than those that you even outlined for us here today, because of this unnecessary shut down.

thank you. >> mr. florez. >> thank you, mr. chairman. thank you, mr. secretary, for being here today and thank you for your service to our country and to our nation's veterans. want to start by giving a shout out to the waco regional office. i visited with him several times over the last two years. they were making remarkable progress on taking to their disability backlog, and director and became a done outstanding job. i dislike ya very concerned about the impact with his shutdown could have on their operations and what could potentially happen to our veterans. so i have a couple of questions in that regard. the first one is, why is the g.i. bill hotline closed when other outlines remain open? >> say that again. >> why is the g.i. bill hotline closed when other outlines remain opened?

>> the one hotline i know will remain open is our crisis, veterans crisis hotline. that is funded by the health administration. >> okay. i'm talking about the call center in muskogee spent call center where? >> call center in muskogee is apparently closed. >> outgo -- if you permit, try to provide you a better answer on exactly -- >> that will be fun. you can follow up. the next question is fairly simple but it's going to take a little bit of time to give you the background so we can build up to it. it goes back a few months, starting with the new information that says that the white house had some involvement in the irs targeting of certain groups. and then it builds from there by saying that the park service, it said, they have been told to make it as tough on americans as

possible during this shutdown period. again, that doesn't anything to do with you army right now, but back on september 19, this committee held a hearing and it had assistant secretary general moody out and i asked her a question about whether or not the office of congressional legislative affairs had ever been influenced by the white house in terms of its responses to congress. she replied at that time that they had not. but then she sent me a follow up letter a few days later, and she said that sometimes that the white house does intervene on correspondence between the va and congress. so again this is still setting up the background for this information but and then if you go through the timeline of activities that we have seen recently. there was a field guide issued on friday september 27, the va stated that does the claims processing would not be affected. than at september 28, the va

notified the house veterans' affairs committee that they would not be able to send the november benefit checks because funding would run out by a cobra. you have confirmed that today. nothing new there. by them at september 30th, president obama had an interview and he stated that veterans will find their support centers unstaffed, which was a direct contradiction of the field guide that said that since would not be affected from a couple of days earlier. then in that same interview the president also intimated that the shutdown would affect somebody and at the offices counseling one of our vets with ptsd. on october 1, and the updated the field guide, or it was amended to add that the end of the month caveat of benefits payment bold and original field guide. then yesterday i get the news that the waco regional offices have to lay off a third of its -- or furlough a third of its staff. so again this goes back to my question, which is fairly simple, and that is, did someone

at the white house or the office of management and budget, or the treasury or any other federal agency, or any other federal employee ask you or anyone else in the veterans administration to modify the timetable under which the va was going to begin its operational wind down if you will to do with a lapse and appropriations? >> fair enough. i think if your perspective is that there is the ability to reach in and understand and influence how it operates, i would say it's just the opposite. now look, we are faced with an unusual event. a shutdown of government doesn't occur frequently, and we have no good plans in place. we had to go back and look at what happened in 96 to have some idea what the requirements were going to be. at the same time we have a 13

close-up, and you know, on the fifth of september are whenever ms. mooney testified, if someone had said we're going to shut the government down, i will guarantee between the fifth of september at the 30th of september that would've been actions that i would have perhaps taken differently. that didn't become obvious to us until last week, maybe wednesday of the last week of september. then we had to do these assessments. if your complaint is that we -- >> may i interrupt for just a minute? let me reclaim my time for just a minute. i'm not complaining. i was asking you a simple question whether a not the white house had any influence over the timetable for the va shutdown process. i think you've answered it no. and i just wanted speed the answer is no. >> i'm glad to hear that answer. you and i both agreed that -- let me rephrase that. i think most of us in here agree that the house has done its work

by passing to appropriations bills that would deal with this issue. one is the milcon th data which would fully fund the va. he wouldn't be sitting here having this discussion today. also we passed h.j. res. 72 last week which would fund the va so that we wouldn't have this conversation. both those bills passed on a bipartisan basis. i would urge those folks that are listening to this hearing to be should influence the senate to take up those bills. thank you, mr. chairman. i yield back. >> thank you for much. ms. brown, you are recognized for five minutes. >> thank you. thank you, mr. secretary, for being here. i keep hearing the senate, the senate. i put the responsibility straight year with the house. we could pass a claims they are and you would not be sitting it. and i have done my entire career all i could do that veterans would not be caught up with the house and the senate, and i don't blame the senate. i thank god for the senate.

about politics of this house. and at some point, you know, let's don't confuse nobody with a facts. we are talking about november 1. i want to talk about october 17. if we do not pass the full faith and credit, if we default, what will happen to all of the mothers and spouses in the tricare and the checks that go out for the va? tell us what's going to happen when these people in the house let us default on our credit. what happens to the va? and the people that even talking to me are not federal employees. their contractors. and the contractors are not going to get any back pay. and they are being laid off in droves because the government is

not affected. and the house is responsible. they could pass a clean c.r. for the first time ever in the history, i voted against a va bill because it was $6 billion less than what we passed out of here. so now please respond. >> congresswoman, i would just repeat what the president has pointed out. what he looks to the congress to do is to things. one, provide a budget so we can operate as a government, and, too, pay the bills have already been occur. both of those issues are at play here. i'm looking for a budget, and so is the rest of the government, so we can do what we are charged to do. and then paying the bills is the issue of the debt ceiling, and those are authorizations that already occurred. >> but what happens on the 17th if we default? what happens to the va? will be veterans, will they get

their checks? >> congresswoman, and i am planning to operate as long as i can this month, but at a certain point i will begin to furlough people. that will have to do with my inability to continue to operate under the carryover. and so whatever occurs with the discussions of the debt ceiling, i imagine it will be even worse. but beginning here in the days to weeks, before the end of this month, for the most part the va will be reduced in operations. my office will be 90% shut down, my office. legislative affairs with whom you deal frequently will be down to one person. public affairs found one person. and then for the rest of our operation, other than receiving claims and looking after

families that are expecting us to provide the appropriate burial services, all of that will be reduced. >> so i just want to be clear. i want you to know this is a self-imposed disaster on the veterans and on the country. there is no need as we sit here. i mean, the senate and the president have agreed to the core levels of the house. they have agreed to it. clean c.r. and we could move forward. but yet we have people that want to blame the senate, want to blame the president. at 20 minutes to 12 we want a conference. it was over. this house is an apt, and i been

in your -- and i've been here for 22 years and i've never seen anything like the people who serve in this house want to act like they care about the veterans. they talk the talk but they don't walk the walk. they are out at the cemeteries or out at the memorials saying, we don't know why it's shut down. well, you voted to shut down a few hours earlier. this is a sad state of affairs. this committee used to be bipartisan. and now you've got a few members that's dragging the house back -- the house of representatives down, the people's house. i yield back the balance of my time. >> thank you. the gentlelady time has completely expired. and for the members of this committee and those that may be listening today, the continuing resolution that the house actually put on the floor that

has been berated by a couple of members saying that it was less than folks wanted by $6 billion, was exactly the same piece of legislation that senator sanders filed monday night. and so folks that are out there saying we shouldn't do this by piecemeal, senator sanders, along with mr. begich, mr. tester and mr. blumenthal, which coincidentally held a news conference at the very same time we've been having this hearing with the secretary, to say that we should not be using him as a punching bag, mr. secretary, i trust that we have not use you as a punching bag today. we are trying to get the information out to the veterans. and again, you have talked in depth about those things that we will not be able to do. but my question, how many

employees within va will still be on the job after november 1, if it's shut down continue to? >> again, mr. chairman, let me take that one for the record to give you specificity that you're looking for. as i said, there's still factors coming together. tell me how long that operate. if i told you the mandatory funds are expected to be completed before the end of this month. affecting both the one november checks and affecting dba in large measure, their present workforce about 13,000 people will be severely reduced. it would be down to about 1100, and roughly 1000 people in vba. so we will have people functioning in vba, and we'll

likewise have to significant -- likewise have to furlough a significant portion of their workforce and we will go to modified operations. the age a is fully funded -- vha is fully fund. 's when you look at the account it will look very large but that's because vha is about 80% of our workforce, and our budget. >> mr. chairman? >> but i do think it's important to remember that your total employees are about 335,000. so when the talk about numbers of 10,000, 4000, those are big numbers. but as they relate to the overall number of 335, i would appreciate, and you've already said that you a ticket for the record, i would appreciate you getting that information to us. >> mr. chairman? i have just a quick question. >> the chair does not mechanize the gentlelady from florida. her time has expired spent i

have a question, mr. chairman, on the question that you are asking the secretary. you're asking a number of employers but my question is, how many people that receive checks will not be getting those checks. i think that's a bigger question. >> again, the gentlelady is not recognized for her question. and i appreciate what she's asking, but, you know, i would -- we knew that the possibility of this some time ago. i don't believe anybody in this room wanted to be where we are today. do you believe the same thing, mr. secretary? >> you know, from my background, i would say look at all the options. this is not one i believe what happened. i just didn't think the august members of this committee, or the congress, would allow this to happen. so i had plans, and we have

quickly dusted them off, and within 72 hours have gone into emergency procedures to continue to take care of veterans as long as we could. and then ensure the orderly shutdown of our activities so we we're taking care of our people as well. so, mr. chairman, if you knew that the shutdown was going to happen, it wasn't shared with me. >> yes, you always look at the possibilities i didn't think -- i just didn't think he would allow this to happen. happen. >> and i think most members of this committee would say that we do not want to be here. this was not an intended consequence, but we are here and we've asked you to come in and talk to us, and my question i guess is, at what point did you start doing extraordinary measures to prepare for this and begin to scale back some

expenditures so that you would not be perceived as making foolish expenditures of funds that may be necessary, and you probably can gather where i'm going with this question, and i -- >> i don't gather where you're going. >> how did we end up with a $500,000 worth of art in kansas? why have we been spending over $1 million in the washington, d.c. area on pr adds? again, i think those that are being furloughed on these questions asked. is not a political question. it's a question as to prioritization, because we're talking about people not getting the benefits that they've earned, not being able to be buried in a timely fashion. yet we can spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on things that probably the general public

would think were in consequential to taking care of our veterans. >> you raised artwork, and i think the suggestion that this was year in spending, that's not the case. there were three facilities that have been in the process of being constructed, or major refurbishment. in the case of the miami facility, it's an eight and 43,000 square foot facility, 11 floors. major renovations in this assembly had not been done since the 1980s, and the project is completed. and part of the process was to replace wall hangings, photographs, prints that add to that environment that says it's a healing environment, and welcome to veterans. los angeles, a 16,000 square

foot facility in which homeless and mental health facilities have been provided. and then the jacksonville committee based outpatient clinic, a new construction project, 102000 square feet, and needed to be outfitted. all totaled, about 1400, a little over 1400 wall hangings, photographs, prints, pictures of veterans, pictures of local scenery that veterans in that area would recognize. i think artwork is probably an inappropriate description here. i think the average cost is under $400. all expenses included. those were part of the project and they refunded and part of the execution. you know, if there was a way to have anticipated the shutdown and redirected some of those

monies, i probably would have done it, but again, i say that it's not until the last week in september that it was clear that what was going to happen would happen. and we went into emergency procedure. >> i apologize for not recognizing mr. mcnerney for your question. thank you for your indulgence, and you are recognized. >> i want to thank you, thank you, and also ranking member michaud for inviting me here and other members of the cleanup and checking. it's a great committee. this is a terrible hearing though to make that happen. so i do want to say the situation is dire. on november 1, we are going to cut off hundreds of thousands of disability recipients, students that are depending on g.i. bill's, families whose veterans

or active serviceman was have died, i think the american public needs to note the dire situation. we are going to be sending hundreds of thousands of people into dire straits, maybe making them homeless, and there's no excuse. we need to solve this problem. we need to solve it in the next week. so, i do have some specific questions. mr. secretary, in addition to mr. denham, my colleague and neighbor, i would like to know from you about the impact of the shutdown on the french camp project but i would like to specifically its priority. and i will take that off-line. now, as you know, the veteran service organizations staff members are used the va regional offices to help council veterans, but the staff members are not members are not employees of the va, could the va allow them to continue to use the facility? i've spent a lot of them are

shut out from the facility to make, use those facilities to help council our veterans. >> i am told that we are not allowed to do that, but again, this is a day-to-day assessment. we go back and check to make sure that the interpretation of the law is clear. but these are some pretty well-defined rules that we operate under. the anti-deficiency act as provisions for two categories. one is protection of life and property, and the other one is necessary implication. >> well, where the any other functions that the vso normally performed that they're not able to perform now? >> we will look for every opportunity to help them be

successful. in their mission. it's part of our mission as well. but, frankly, we are trying to process as many claims as we can before the mandatory account is depleted. and then thereafter we are in to receiving and date stamping claims. >> well, you said i believe that the va processing claims are continuing. are their decisions being made about these claims? and if so, are the veterans being notified about those decisions? or is that arnold? >> in those circumstances where we are able to pay, and i described the retroactive aspects of this, we won't be able to pay continuing monthly benefits. but for those veterans that have a date stamp that goes back some time when that is awarded, we tried to pay the retroactive portion of that.

the monthly cycle picks up in november. >> so they will be notified if a decision is made even if they're not able to get a check? >> they will be notified if we are able to pay the retroactive aspect of that, and then we will process the remainder of the claims and put that, you know, in the line. ..