sequestration even though it might exempt that with the shutdown is probably backing that up as well. but certainly the back wall and the benefits process is something again that cuts out the representation being available. >> i think the western district of texas and southern district of texas are the second and third busiest courts in america because they are both on the border. vacancies and those two districts are clearly a judicial emergency. and with the need to fill those vacancies is a dire let me also say that they deal very heavily with criminal cases. we are very grateful to the public defender for what they do. private attorneys to accept the critical appointments are also

very necessary in that process. we have stopped paying the private attorneys since september for their service. we have cut their hourly rates 15% for the present. and with that, the volunteer services of those attorneys and their willingness to take the cases we would be in a terrible pitch. we've done that to protect the public defenders that we are not able to protect them as we should. and we may be in the process of taking good attorneys out of the appointment last and even putting more pressure for representation. >> some victims' lives may be in jeopardy without services. >> i absolutely agree with you that it is a matter of life-and-death particularly with

the suicide of the victims after sexual assault is catastrophic. so we are not fooling around here. we owe this to the dictum of trauma. we need to get this done. >> i think the witness is very much in the testimony. >> thank you. sheila jackson lee. >> i am pleased to recognize a distinguished member of the committee from memphis tennessee >> first i want to thank you for holding this hearing. i'm having trouble adjusting to the minority and realizing that what we have because when you were the chairman of the committee, we had hearings like this and nobody seems to be interested in the access to justice any longer. there are so many things we explored and even thought about more.

i ask the chairman if he had invited the republicans to this panel. mr. chairman did you invite the republicans to come to this four rahm? -- forum? i think their lack of presence is a statement that can be heard. if they had come they would have an opportunity to hear about some of the problems they had caused and they could have more bills they could fly all to open up more areas of the government. this could be just a field day for them. that is one of the good things about the form is than you do get to see some people might get to see how important the government is. there are so many people today i get letters from constituents some of them have some intelligence but they say one particular individual says it looks like we are doing all right without these people that have been furloughed. maybe we can do without them

forever. that makes no sense because accidents happen, bus crashes and east tennessee where people die and nobody investigating it and i think you had some appear with the subway. so there's lots of things going on. i don't know the answer to this. i asked my staff to give me an answer so it wouldn't seem out of left field for this. but is there any area where the individual or the attorney could go to court and try to mandamus funding in areas like d-tn and say there's a constitutional right to a defense and you're not adequately funding it and therefore the government isn't doing sufficient funding for the constitutional guarantees? you believe there isn't such a possibility? >> yes, congressman. there is not only such a possibility, but it will start to happen in one of two ways.

quite a while ago there is a constitutional right to necessary services to present the defense of a psychiatrist in that case and i think that there would be notions' either to force funding for such services or to dismiss cases because people cannot be provided an adequate defense and i think the would present a judge's with a searing his dilemma in the society would have a very difficult situation of the cases are dismissed because of failure to provide adequate services for the defense. >> you have some opinion on that, too or other areas where there could be citizen action? >> i do, congressman. unlike gideon on possible side the federal courts have ruled

there is no constitutional right to counsel. however, the aba has provided leadership in terms of a resolution calling for the sole right to counsel in certain civil matters where a critical human need is at stake so it is a safety in the domestic violence situation. adequate housing. there's significant litigation under way across the country and the state courts of at the federal level that pretty much been decided at this moment at least. but in cases where parental rights are at stake or children are being abused. there is significant litigation underway trying to create the limited right to counsel in the civil matters. it's been a anybody else have lots of possible legal strategies to try to force some action? at least we have a couple ideas.

let me ask you in memphis and any places out in the country is a backlog on rate cuts. does this sequester affected the ability of local governments to get rid kitts and to keep up with the results thereof -- rape kits to keep up with the results thereof? >> the backlog is critical in its funding, and that's indicating who was a predator and who was not in affecting the cold cases. but also, i think people are more comfortable talking about the rape kit legislation rather than rate itself. i don't know the people's experience, she has been working on the act as long as me, but i think what's the most important

is that we keep our doors open to the rape crisis centers and work with law enforcement and district attorneys now and we are a community against creditors. we've got mcginn's law past. we are going to go back in time. it's just heartbreaking to me that so many of you that have worked so hard on this legislation to see it all come to naught i just can't read my head around it. i can't wrap my head a rounded. >> i'm going to yield back the balance of my time. >> i am pleased now to introduce the distinguished gentleman on the committee from the great state of georgia, atlanta to be

specific. hank johnson. >> thank you mr. chairman for holding this hearing today. our u.s. constitution article 1, two and three set forth a delicate system of checks and balances between the three branches. and those branches being coequal it's a given almost that whoever controls the purse strings caused the shots. so it's kind of easy to think about it in those terms that we say the branches are coequal but whoever is handling the purse strings, whoever has control of that is actually calling the

tune. so that's kind of in the back of our mind as we proceed forward. as long as everybody acts in a responsible manner in their respective realms of government in their branch everyone acting reasonable we proceed and then we get to the point the branch is not acting reasonably. when we ponder that this is not just a recent phenomenon -- in other words, grover norquist, big-time republican -- and we say that it's not political about the judicial branch but yes it is political grover

norquist didn't lead the judiciary out when he said he wanted to have a government that was small enough to drown in the bathtub. that includes the judicial branch, which i'm afraid will be the first victim to go down the drain, the closest to the drain than any other branch right now. so, my question is given the compensation clause in article 3 and section 1 compensation shall not be diminished but yet there have been no raises since 1991 by the federal judges except for the cost of living adjustments and those have not happened every year in fact they have not

taken place more years than sense 1991 more than they have been given. so we have the illusion of judicial pay the certainly hurts the quality of persons who are able to make the financial sacrifice to serve. and then we have the judicial vacancies where the republican senators are refusing to allow up or down votes on the judicial nominees. to have traditional bankruptcy's and in my northern district of georgia there are three that have been pending for four years and district court and a couple

of court of appeals as well. and then the judicial administration has taken a beating if you will as it has outlined so the judicial system it appears to me is actually under attack. and it's not something that just started. it's something that has been allowed to creep forward and get bigger. what i'm wondering is when will the judges who have the power, federal district court judge has the power to take care of the fulton county jail and put in a receiver and make fulton county create a jail that is safe and

humane? if a federal judge can do that then can not a federal judge ordered the speaker of the house or the leader of the senate to take action with respect to providing adequate resources cilluffo judicial branch can do its job is that what we have come to? i know i ask a lot of questions but i just wanted to make that statement because i think we have gotten to the point where action is going to have to be forced into will be quite a constitutional display. i and extend my time is expired. if anyone would get to comment

petraeus connect this goes back to the representatives question about how can we change the system, what steps can be taken in court or otherwise to move the ball forward. our focus has been on the armed individuals as a result of the shutdown of the sequestration. but it also has a significant impact on businesses, on jobs and job creation. so we need to enlist the business community in support of this mission. they are strongly in support of it but their places need to be louder to the other side of the ogle on this issue because it's important not only to the individuals in our country, but the businesses and full employment for the rest of the country. >> thank you very much, my good

friend. let me thank my colleagues for remaining. all i wanted to ask a couple of questions and then i wanted to see if any of you have any closing observations that you would like to put in the record before we adjourn this forum. i wanted to ask mr. lily if he can predictions on the possible adverse results that could ensue as a result of the sequester cut anywhere from ten to 15% to the bureau of prisons and the federal bureau of investigation. and i wanted to ask about the

sequestration which have cost the court to appoint 5,000 employees between july and august representing about an 11% reduction in staff. in addition, as of june, the courts have incurred a four and a half thousand furlough days and project an additional 4,100 furlough days by the end of the year 2013 to the id if you would both make some responses to those questions. >> i will go first.

>> well, i think first of all with respect to the bureau of prisons, i think if we go down this path, we are going to find a kind of right going on in a major prison that is going to involve a major loss of life, maybe the east cape of significant number of dangerous people. probably the lives of prisoners who were not perpetrators of the violence. and we are going to see federal prison is a much more dangerous place for the federal work force. with respect to the fbi, i would just say if it is a good time to be a terrorist it is a good time to be a foreign intelligence agency. and it's a good time to be an illicit business man who is trying to perpetrate fraud on american consumers, because we just don't have the team that we used to have or that we ought to

have to block those kind of activities. and we clearly could pay a price and perhaps a huge price for not having that. >> thank you. anyone else that would like to make an observation? >> mr. johnson mentioned an article in "the new york times" a couple days ago which demonstrated the current sequester and shut down didn't occur independent of anything but were part and parcel of a very wrong conceived plan to reduce and dismantle government. and unfortunately, part of that is a judiciary. and if i could just say to use some closing comments, we

conduct focus groups every two years at the alliance and we ss people's understanding and knowledge about the courts. what we find every two years is that bell level of knowledge and information that people have about our court system is minimal. for instance almost no one knows how many justices sit on the supreme court. almost no one in the group that we bring together can even name the supreme court justice. so, i would like to thank you and your colleagues today for holding these hearings on such an important topic. a topic that doesn't get the attention and given the judiciary is viewed as a crown jewel of our democracy.

i want to thank you today for going ahead and holding these hearings. >> thank you. because that is exactly what we did decide to hold these hearings because there were so many other aspects of the shutdown as a refusal to come to an agreement on the funding resolution. and the pending that we would run out of credit on october october 17th that even compounds the problem as i see it and it was in that spirit that my colleagues on the judiciary or so gracious and generous with their time. and i want to thank them all. and i ask you if there was any

closing observation that anybody might choose to make as we wind the forearm down. >> in addition to the democracy over independent courts have been i think the most acclaimed portion of our government around the world so that 50 years after the and to have the circumstance in the current situation is just unacceptable to the congress needs to pass a budget now. >> yes, sir. >> to me we are playing with fire by letting the sequestration and shut down continue because it will eventually gridlock the coequal branch of government that protect the constitutional rights of our people and that delivers justice to the nation. it's an eventuality that i never

thought possible. and the longer it continues and the longer that we decide the constitution and the justice no matter longer -- blogger mabry enough to fund it, than anything is possible. i close by saying that it's ironic to me republicans and a democrats serving on the appropriations committee are both the house and the senate have agreed to fund the judiciary adequately. and if the shutdown ended, those appropriators could make the recommendations and they could be accepted and this terrible trauma would pass. but until that happens, our worst nightmares are upon us. >> thank you, a judge ferguson. mr. kramer? >> thank you. i want to repeat what i said and

one other thing. the irony of course is in the criminal justice context the cutbacks will in the and if they continue to result in a greater expense to the american taxpayer than it would have been of the system more adequately funded. and i would like to observe that the entire court system is such a tiny part of government relative to the other parts. i heard the budget for the department of justice and parts of and the fbi, the layoffs in the fbi, the number of people laid off is greater than the number of people in the public defender system in the entire country. and the budget of the bureau is a greater by $2 billion in the entire court budget. so what you are talking about is such a tiny portion of the federal budget that is at stake but such a crucial and important part of it. >> thank you. mr. kengle for the civil rights

under law. >> just very briefly, i want to thank you and your members for the presentation today. my prior remarks were directed at the voting rights issues but you and my distinguished fellow panelists have done an excellent job of highlighting the issue of the judicial vacancy which is a very important issue to the lawyers committee that i didn't touch upon. but something that we will return to in the future and i want to again thank you for doing so. >> don saunders. >> i am privileged to be among so many articulate voices for justice. on behalf of the part of the

justice system that ensures justice for people of limited means it's a privilege to be here. i want to thank you and your colleagues for the leadership that you have shown and stress once more how critically important component of justice for civil and criminal law against is to the future. thank you for inviting me. >> you are more than welcome. the lady that is the head of not one, but to important organizations. >> i add my voice in a flanking you for showing a great interest and putting attention on the critically important branch of government, the judiciary. thank you. i look forward to working with all of you in the future. >> thank you.

space scott. >> there is no question that we have a full-blown constitutional crisis right now. we have one branch of government that can't play its role because another branch has denied them resources. we have chaos in the executive branch as well because it is ironic to me that the branch that is the source of the problem is the one that is most directly elected by the american people and i think that's why this hearing is important and why that is a message to all of us. we need to communicate much better with our fellow citizens about what is at stake and what needs to be done and obviously we have been doing previously. thank you. >> attorney dan moyer.

>> chairman conyers and members of the committee, thank you for staying with us on behalf of the sexual violence and the crisis centers throughout the nation. and for the coalition against greek i would like to thank you for this opportunity and i have been walking around the organization saying i feel like chicken little because i keep saying the sky is falling and nobody else seems to get it. but i think the sky is falling and we really need to act now. and my esteemed colleagues on this panel -- the fact that mauney america doesn't care what justice anymore breaks my heart. it really does. and the people here that are doing the work that comes from our founding fathers work on the constitution that we all swear to defend and we all pledge allegiance to but lets me get real and get the budget done so

that we can all go back to work. >> on behalf of all of my colleagues on the judiciary committee, we thank you for the incredible response. we think we have a record now that can make clearer the crisis that is going to affect the justice system and the judicial system of this country. and with that, this forum is adjourned. thank you very much. >> good forum, mr. chairman. looking at the u.s. capitol on this rainy day in washington, d.c. the senate is about to gavel and to get the session started. lawmakers expected to immediately recess to allow

republican senators to attend a meeting with the president this morning focusing on of course the ongoing government shut dowd and the inapproaching debt limi. why of to the senate on c-span2. the chaplain: let us pray. almighty god, we desperately need your steadfast love to sustain us during this difficult time. lord, give our lawmakers the wisdom to distinguish between truth and error and the courage to act upon those insights. help them to avoid the shortcuts that lead away from your will, as you make them your eyes,

ears, feet, and hands to bring solace to those who suffer. give them a hatred of all hypocrisy deceit, and shame, as they seek to replace them with gentleness, patience, and truth. we pray in your great name amen. the presiding officer: please join me in reciting the pledge of allegiance i pledge allegiance to the flag of the united states of america and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under god, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

the presiding officer: the clerk will read a communication to the senate. the clerk: washington d.c., october 11, 2013. to the senate: under the provisions of rule 1, paragraph 3, of the standing rules of the senate, i hereby appoint the honorable angus king, a senator from the state of maine, to perform the duties of the chair. signed: patrick j. leahy, president pro tempore. mr. reid: mr. president? the presiding officer: the majority leader. mr. reid: i now move to proceed to calendar number 211, debt limit bill. the presiding officer: the clerk will report the motion. the clerk: the senator from nevada, mr. reid, moves to proceed to calendar number 211, s. 1659 to ensure the complete and timely payment of the united states government until december 31, 2014. mr. reid: following leader remarks the senate will recess until the call of the chair to allow for a special republican caucus to meet with president obama.

mr. president? the presiding officer: the majority leader. mr. reid: this is my opinion. if we allow the united states to default on its debt for the first time in our glorious history, it will be a black mark on our reputation and that is a gross understatement. it will be a financial disaster and it will spark a global recession. mr. president, as i indicated when i started this, this is my opinion. but this is not my opinion alone . if you listen to the economic leaders of this country, respected economists, bankers and business leaders, that's what they say. for example, yesterday, the chief executive officer of american express, whose company is valued at almost $80 billion, said this about default -- and i quote -- "what's important to

understand is this. if the united states hits the debt ceiling and is unable to pay its debts, the consequences will be immediate and they'll be dramatic." continuing, he said "if the united states defaults, the global financial system literally unwinds." so no one misinterprets what he said, i'll read it again. "what's important to understand is this. if the united states hits its debt ceiling and is unable to pay its debts, the consequences will be immediate and dramatic. if the united states defaults, the global financial system literally unwinds." his dire warning has been accepted and echoed by reasonable members of congress, including many republicans. even speaker boehner admitted in 2011, the last time republicans forced this country to be on the brink of default, that failing to pay the bills would be

catastrophic. here's what he said. not raising the debt limit would have serious, very serious implications for a worldwide economy and jobs here in america." but this year speaker boehner seems willing to risk default day after day holding the full faith and credit of the united states hostage to extract extreme phreut concessions. yesterday it was very -- extreme phreut phr*eul concessions. yesterday it was very good to see my colleagues, some at least, come up with the idea to come up with a clean bill to avert default. think about that, mr. president. they're talking about extending the debt ceiling for two months. for six weeks. please. but some have admitted a clean bill to avoid default should be

the standard, and i certainly agree with that. i repeat. we do not believe a six-week delay of a catastrophic economy is enough to give the country what it needs. using their theory, we would have another one of these periods of bedlam here in washington right before the most important purchasing season at any time during the year: christmas. right before christmas, right when people are beginning to buy things for christmas. so, mr. president, we'll vote tomorrow on a 15-month measure to ensure the united states government lives up to its obligations giving the economy certainty and stability over the long term. for congress to work won't end

default. the government is still closed for business causing hardship for millions of families. take for example the trovich family. they have a son scheduled to receive a bone marrow transplant at the n.i.h. here in washington. without the transplant, he could die like his brother did five years ago from the same, same disease. institutes of health shuttered along with the rest of the federal government. centers for disease control, the assistant democratic leader has laid out 79 different programs that would have to be reinstated to open the government. and we're getting them piecemeal, piecemeal. in the meantime people are really suffering. not only those federal employees, but the people that depend on them. we have four states who are trying to work something out with secretary jewel to have the states pay for opening national

parks. it's time for republicans to give the trovich family and others relief. reopen the government, the whole government so kids like austin can get the treatment they need. families of law enforcement officers deserve this. they have been killed in the line of duty. they can't get the death benefits they deserve. why? the government is closed. so every american family that relies on the federal government to keep them healthy and safe gets the services they earned. reopen the government. let's pay our nations bills. and then let's negotiate a sensible budget solution that secures our country's longtime fiscal needs. mr. mcconnell: mr. president? the presiding officer: the republican leader. mr. mcconnell: shortly i'll join my senate republican colleagues at the white house. it will be a good opportunity to engage in a frank exchange of ideas with the president, if that's what he's looking for. but if all the president wants is to just drag us over there to

say he won't negotiate, that won't be particularly productive. throughout this crisis the president has taken what you might call an unorthodox approach to governing. his basic position could be summed up in three words: he won't negotiate. and i think that's left many americans kind of scratching their heads. i know the president and democratic leaders in congress want to borrow more money without any strings attached but the rest of us actually want to enact some commonsense reforms to get our debt under control and we want to keep our commitments to the american people. and here's the key point. nobody wants a default. that's why in 50 years of negotiations over multiple debt ceiling increases, we haven't had a single tkault. not a one. we've negotiated over debt ceilings for 50 years, never had a default. let's put this hysterical talk of default behind us and instead start talking about finding solutions to the problems. there are a variety of ways to

get debt and spending under control. a lot of innovative reforms we should consider. but we've got to talk to each other if we're going to make any of that happen. i'll bet some of my democratic friends have spending cut ideas as well, and we'd like to hear them. so let's sit down. let's talk this out. members on both sides of the aisle here in congress are discussing solutions and these discussions will continue just as soon as we get back from the white house. the presiding officer: under the previous order the senate stands in recess subject to the stands in recess subject to the lawmakers are now taking a recess so republican senators

veterans affairs secretary erich shinseki announced wednesday of the government shutdown continues, about 3.8 million veterans will not receive disability compensation payments in november. in addition he indicated that shut down threatens the ability for the va to eliminate the compensation claims backlog. secretaries shinseki made these comments during a house veterans affairs committee hearing looking at the impact of the shut down on services and benefits to military veterans. congressman jeff miller of florida chairs the hearing. it's about two hours and 20 minutes.

>> [inaudible conversations] >> this hearing will come to order. before we began i would like to ask unanimous consent from the committee the gentleman from california, former member of the committee mr. mcnerny be able to join today and participate in today's proceedings. hearing no objection, so ordered. mr. secretary, welcome to the committee. i appreciate, sincerely

appreciate you being here on a relatively short notice. we are here today to understand how veterans are being impacted by the laps of the appropriations that has the government apparently in a shutdown mode. there's plenty of blame that can be shared as to why we are in this position. but that's not why i called the hearing. i really called the hearing so that we could get the best possible information available out to the veteran community. veterans want to know whether their disability checks and the vbied bill benefits will be paid in november and thereafter. they want to know if the disability claims will be decided or for their late. families want to know if their loved ones will receive a timely burial at the va national cemeteries. and many of the employees themselves want to know whether they will be serving veterans on

the job or whether they are going to be furloughed. understand that answers to some of these questions are entirely dependent on how long the shutdown lasts. and although i want to be sure that most of us agree we want the shot down over quickly, it's our responsibility to ensure that the public especially veterans understand what the current state of play is. first of all mr. secretary, i want to see that in the last couple of weeks getting good information about the contingency plans and the effect of the appropriations and its effect on veterans' has been very difficult for us to get the information out of your office. for example, the original field guide that the va put out regarding this shutdown impact at first spoke of no affect, no

effect on payment to veterans or the processing of their benefits. but in a later version, the va stated that a prolonged shutdown would impact both, but didn't provide any details as to how it would be impacted. second, the veterans health administration is not shut down at all because it has received a full year's appropriation for 2014 back in march. so hospitals, clinics and the veterans' centers should all be open for business. yet the president made a statement the day before the shutdown saying that the veterans will find their support centers not staffed and that the counseling services for the veterans with pts would be affected. third, the committee has consistently been told by the mandatory overtime efforts towards the backlog would actually end on september 30th.

yet days into the shutdown and we are now informed that the shutdown prevented the va's planned payment of overtime. fourth, although a shut down should have a relatively uniform affect across all regional offices as suggested by your own field guide my staff met with several representatives last week who relayed that their members are hearing mixed messages out of different regional offices. and i think it goes without saying that none of this is ideal. some degree of confusion is expected and we understand that. but the va employees should be worrying about the mission of services to veterans and of planning for the furloughs or managing an agency on spare change remaining from last year. however, what can never be expected is anything less than

the full truth as best as it is known at the time. this grave situation doesn't need to be assisted by misleading statements from anybody. statements designed to aid a political argument by any of the bickel party, regardless of which one we may be long to. it's my hope that we can uphold the best traditions of this committee and rise above all of that today. mr. secretary, i appreciate your willingness to join us in this effort. since this hearing was called last friday, we have had a little bit more clarity on some of the issues we have been asking your staff about for the last ten days. but i thought the public should hear some of the same information. one last point before i conclude. last july we held a hearing on a bill that the ranking member and

i introduced that proposed to advance fund the entire va discretionary budget. the administration declined to take a position on the bill saying instead it needed to conduct a review first. it's obvious that no review is necessary given where we are today. i sincerely hope that you are making that case with the administration. and i will follow-up with you on that point during questions. and i recognize the ranking member for his opening statement. >> thank you mr. chairman for having this hearing and i want to thank you mr. secretary for coming. before we begin exploring how the government shutdown is affecting veterans and the va, i want to acknowledge that the consequences and the lapse in appropriation has had on the va employees i know that the employees do not work solely for

the paycheck. they work because they believe in helping the veterans. a lot of them are veterans. and they have done a phenomenal job and now it's time for congress to do its job. we can do this in two ways. number one, either the senate take up the dea appropriation bill that was passed by the house for months ago. or the house can take up a clean path by the senate. i don't care which one we choose, as long as we get on with the reopening of the government and we fully fund the va. the contingency plan and field guide provide us with a number of idea of the consequences of the government shut down. last week we solve the immediate shutdown and what it had on some of the va offices such as the inspector general. yesterday we saw from the va and

the i.t. accounts runge radhi and thousands of va employees furloughed. we know that the mandatory funds to pay compensation and pension benefits are scheduled to run out in a little over two weeks. we also know that furloughs and suspension of programs and other agencies also affect veterans. of the roughly 2.1 million federal employees, more than 600,000 our veterans. many of them are already or expect to be furloughed. also, as the programs and services and agencies that disrupted, it affects the va's ability to receive the necessary information and support to deliver those services for our veterans. we know we will hear bad news today, mr. secretary. important dea operations have or will be suspended. some veterans will not get what they are expected.

what they deserve, and most importantly, what they have earned. this may be a difficult conversation, but one that we must have openly, frankly and honestly. but in the midst of the bad news, there is good news. with the medical accounts under advance appropriation, the veterans health administration is largely unaffected by the lapse in the fiscal year 2014 appropriation. all medical facilities are open, mr. chairman, and operational under status. this will continue regardless how long the current government is shut down. it is clear that in the midst of the shutdown that getting the vote on h.r. 13 as amended by putting the veterans' funding first act is necessary in the critical step to ensuring the veterans' benefits and services are not put at risk when there is a lapse in the appropriation.

mr. chairman i want to thank you for signing the letter to the speaker asking that h.r. 13 as amended be scheduled for the action and i encourage all members of the committee to sign on to that letter and to send the message that veterans should not and cannot and will not be disadvantaged by party politics in the future regardless of which party is in control. mr. secretary, i look forward to your testimony. and in the questions to follow. mr. trent and once again thank you for having this important and timely hearing. with that body yield back the balance of my time. >> thank you. thank you for all of your attendance today. as you might imagine, this is a critical time within our government and certainly for the veterans out there. that's why i ask the secretary, and i am so pleased on short notice he was able to come in and give us some in the

indication where we are and where we will be going in the future depending how long shutdown does in fact continue. i want to welcome to the table the first and only witness this morning giving it the honorable eric shinseki, secretary for the u.s. department of veterans affairs. you're complete written statement, mr. secretary, will be entered into the record and you are recognized now for five minutes. >> chairman miller, a ranking member, members of the committee thank you for entering my written statement. let me, mr. chairman, just recognize in the room here we have partners for all of us from our federal and services organizations. i would tell you that they've been quite directly helpful to me over the past four and a half years. and trying to help us understand how to be better at our responsibilities of caring for veterans. but also service members and families and survivors that we are responsible for.

mr. chairman, you called this hearing to examine the effect of the government shut down on the va benefits and services to veterans. while my written testimony describes any effect on va due to the ongoing laps and appropriations, let me just say unequivocally that all the effects that i described and i'm going to describe of the shutdown are negative. it's an impediment to the va to deliver services that the veterans have earned through their service. the va continues to invest significant resources and time and planning for this unique and frequent and avoidable situation. the ongoing shut down presents illegal and programmatic challenges. the last time a shutdown occurred in 1996, as i am told, the nation was enjoying a sustained period of relative peace. that isn't true today. we are in the 13th year in the war in afghanistan, providing

care and services to the veterans of the war, and the war and iraq as well. members of the latest generation of veterans are enrolling in va at a higher rate than ever before. they along with the veterans of every preceding generation will be harmed if the shutdown continues. in brief, in the last six months through the 40th of september, the veterans' benefits administration, vba reduced the backlog of the compensation claims, something we have all been working on and prodding and encouraging them to do better. they've become the delivery. 193,000 claims on the backlog reduced in the 190 days, roughly 190 days. an increase in a little for six months. since the shutdown began on the first of october, the backlog has stalled. and in fact has increased by about 2,000 claims. vba has already furloughed more

than 7,800 of its employees. half of whom are veterans. the shutdown directly threatens va's ability to eliminate the backlog. we've lost ground we fought hard to take. roughly 1400 better than today are now not receiving decisions on their disability compensation claims due to the end of overtime. if the shutdown does not end in the coming weeks, va will not be able to assure delivery of one november checks to the more than 5.18 million beneficiaries, and that accounts for about $6.25 billion in payments that people are expecting. and compensation and pensions and the dependent sand indemnity compensation, dic, fiduciary educational rehabilitation and employment benefits. including veterans who are 100% disabled. surviving spouses, eligible children orphaned by the death

of their parent. it cited as the service members on eligible family members and education programs will also stop. these are some of the major issues veterans face if the shutdown continues. my testimony includes details of other negative impact to the i.t. initiatives, the cemetery administration whose employees late to honor those that serve the nation. the va staff offices and va employees themselves, especially those who are veterans. while some have suggested a series of continuing resolutions, many cr if you will as an approach to meeting our fy 2014 budgetary responsibilities for funding the government, that's not a solution for the veterans were for the nation. the budget requests submitted by president obama six months ago is the result of an expensive, cooperative, synchronized

efforts across all departments and agencies to produce a budget request that co inherently balances priorities and risks. picking and choosing parts of government to fund would ignore that drumbeats that i've tried to deliver over the past four and a half years and the first is the very little of what we work on in the va originated in the va. much of that originates in another department. ..

>> we have a fourth mission in the event of emergency, natural disaster, humanitarian requirements that i must make available our capabilities where it is needed. so our work with fema and dhs, homeland security is also part of our day-to-day responsibilities. these are not insignificant connections for this department. without them we are less effective in serving veterans, our service members, their families and our suppliers. so these are the facts that i%, mr. chairman, at a critical time for veterans. everyone at the va as you said should be focusing on how best to acknowledge their mission. and so i ask the committee and the rest of congress to help us by resolving this fiscal impasse now so that va and our federal partners and who we have to rely to do our work can get back to work full-time.

fulfilling president lincoln's call to care for those who have gone to battle. thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you very much, mr. secretary. you and i both know that regular order is not in the mode that we are in today. but regular order, in fact, required a piecemeal approach of 12 appropriations bills. 126 plus days ago, this house on a bipartisan basis past ida military construction bill that fully funded, not just partially funded on a short-term basis, which is what folks are asking for now, is just a part of a c.r., fully funded, yet that bill languishes over in the senate. to my colleagues who may not recall because it's been so long since we sent that bill over to the senate, there is very little difference, maybe eight quarter

of a percent between the two bills -- maybe a quarter of a percent between the two bills. it could very easily be brought forward in this would be off the table. and so my question is, in years past, how can the senate regardless of parties, white house, have always come together and try to find a way to prioritize how money would be spent, who would be at the top of the list if we start to shut the government down and run out of money. and today we don't have that. even back in the shutdown of 1995, there was a prioritization, and dod and veterans were taking off -- take it off the table, of which they are not right now. so my question, mr. secretary, is don't you think va benefits certainly showed give the same priority, or prioritization today as it has in other

shutdown situations? >> i missed the last piece of your question, mr. chairman your. >> just basically, in years past, we have, in fact, prioritized spending needs, dod and va has always been basically taken off the table. and my question is what's different this time? and don't you think veterans benefits in fact should be prioritized at a higher level than others within our federal government? >> mr. chairman, i will just say this department has benefited from leadership of the president and leadershileadershi p and support of the congress. if you look at what is transpired over the last four years to our budgets i think we can all be proud of what we've done to take care of veterans. and i will always tell you that the top priority with me. but i do understand there is a budget request presented to the

congress. there is a process that you referred to that requires passage of a budget, and within that the individual departments are then provided guidance on what their budgets will be. i'm not sure where the congress is in that process, but i would ask the congress to provide us a budget so that not only this department, but our partners in government on whom we rely to do our mission well, can get on with business. >> i think it's important to discuss the differences between a budget and an appropriation. because it has been completed and the national media that because a budget hasn't been passed we can't appropriate money. in fact, we've done it for a number of years now because we haven't been able to come to an agreement on a budget. we did pass in this house over 126 days ago now, by and large bipartisan measure -- and i

would hope you would know or have some type of an idea of why the senate is holding that so tight, has chosen not to move the legislation forward. we have passed for different full appropriation bills. and i'm hoping that maybe you can help me understand why the senate continues not to act on the full, not a piecemeal partial bill, but a whole funding bill. >> mr. chairman, i appreciate your confidence in my ability to sort through this for the congress. i would just claim to be just an average guy trying to get a job. but here's what i'm facing. i didn't know there's going to be a shut down. i had no idea that this was intended to happen. and so the month of september is for me the end of a fiscal year. what usually happens is i'm trying to get people to tell me

how they finished what i have instructed them to do throughout the year with the funds that the congress has provided, generously provided. and then anticipate that i'll have a budget and one october in which to understand how to make that transition. because these transitions are in the past seven difficult, congress authorizes a carryover opportunity, but it limits what i can carryover. and so in one department, one administration it may be as low as 4%. and another it may go as high as 10%. but these are limitations. i need to understand what we're doing to close out properly so i can know what our carryover is going to be so that i can understand we are meeting congress' intent. and then expecting them going to the budget in which to dovetail the second of these, it usually takes me about 10 days at the end of a fiscal year to be able

to bring this to order. so about today is when i would have these factors coming together. and, in fact, this week would have been the week that i would have my fy '14 execution meetings with the various accounts. i would just delete these factors are coming together daily, and there are adjustments year in how much money is available, and the burn rate at which those funds will last. and so we're doing the best we can. two things we're doing here. we are trying to keep our operations going for as long as possible, where we are loud exception under the law, to take care of his many veterans as we can for as long as possible. the other thing i have to do is lecture i'm taking care of our employees so that i'm not telling people that they're going to be furloughed when, in fact, they are going to be. so there's a good a time, not to

be an alarmist, but an inappropriate moment when we know we're going to have -- will not have a budget and will have to take other steps. that we will inform our employees that they are going to be furloughed. the ones that have been furloughed, we have gone through this process. it's not just telling them you're furloughed, close the door and leave. we're going to get a budget here at some point, mr. chairman, and what i want to our offices to get to do is come back in as soon as capable be up and running at full speed. that requires us to close out and an orderly function. forgiving, i'll fall back to my full military experience. at the end of the day i want everyone in a fighting position to organize for whatever might happen that night. grenades in one location, rifles left and right, ammunition, water, and be prepared. i want us to be in the same

position that when we have a budget people go back to work and where up to full speed so we are taking care of veterans as quickly as we can. i don't want to spend 30 days trying to figure out how to get back to that point. >> thank you, mr. secretary. mr. michaud. >> thank you, mr. secretary, and i can understand why you can't predict what the senate will do, or the house, as far as that goes. but as i mentioned in my opening statement there are two areas we can solve this. one, the senate can pass the full appropriation bill that we passed four months ago to fund all of the day. or the houston that's a clean senate c.r. unfortunately, it still a c.r. but it will move us beyond this particular point. and i understand, that even with the full milcon the appropriation bill that are still services that veterans will not be able to receive because other parts of the

federal government are not up and operating because of the shut down. i totally understand that, but it's my hope that the bulk of the va can be taken care. my question to you, mr. secretary, you mentioned trying to get the staff back up and running once the shut down is done. if, say today, that congress and the president was able to get our act together, how long will it take the va to get up and running, full steam ahead, and when will you be able to assess some of the damages, particularly as relates to the backlog that will take to try to get back on track again? >> i would say, congressman, at this point, you become in some sections hours, today's in others. our other sections. but the longer we go, then the start up will just take longer. fact is, i've indicated on one

november i will not be able to pay all these beneficiaries who are expecting those checks. i need the authorization, appropriation and a budget to be able to do that. and i don't do that independently. in order to make those claims decisions, i link into irs and social security, education, the department of education, small business. so i would say that what is best for veterans and for all of us right now is, you know, budget for entire federal government. let us get back to work. the sooner we do it the faster i can get back up to full speed. >> we did a couple years ago pass an advanced appropriations for the department, vha. are there some components of

that vector not able to do because of i.t. or some other components of the va that would actually enter vha in providing the services that they need? >> well, we've had these discussions in the past, congressman, and you know that we're a little bit bifurcated here. we get a generosity of the congress advanced appropriations for our health administration. so they are fully funded on one october. so the question, how much of an impact? 80% of va is functioning because our hospitals are open. our committee based outpatient clinics are seen patience, as veterans centers and our mobile clinics. and so that will continue and the impact of them is negligible. where we get a little bifurcated is where we have authorization to do something with a facility. and we have to wait for our i.t.

budget to clear and then we marry the two of. it's something we worked in the past. are there other easy ways to handle this down the road? perhaps worthy of a discussion, but for right now that would not be able to cash checks on one november and that's my great concern you. i don't want to be an alarmist but i want to speak for the veterans who are looking in on this. not only do we have a large number of beneficiaries are looking for those checks, i have veterans myself that are employed, a third, over 100,000 veterans. a number of them are going to be subject to furlough. and so if they are furloughed and they are also recipients of disability checks, their resources go to zero. and then i have the responsibility of trying to figure out how to keep them from becoming homeless.

so this -- this is a much larger challenge for us. >> thank you very much. i yield back. >> mr. denham. >> thank you, mr. chairman. mr. secretary, the chairman outlined in his opening statement recently the house passed the only our promise to americans veterans act that was signed into law would provide immediate funding for critical veterans benefits and services including disability claims, education training, many items you discuss in your testimony. but you also made an important point when you stated that many services, veterans rely on are not directly in va, like the that implement program comes small business administration loans are two of those examples you cite in your test went to could you expand on other types of these programs that would be outside of the bill that we passed that is now sitting in the senate? >> you meet other departments that are impacted?

>> impacted, impact our veterans that are outside the va bill? >> sure. our claims processing required, by law, our responsibility to check with the irs for income data, with social security for other benefits. and so that's part of the process that we go through in completing our claims. >> are you saying then that even if the senate passed the va bill in the senate was willing to sign that va funding bill, there would still be some challenges because of the interactivity with the irs and, therefore, most? >> exactly. you know, it depends on the issue, congressman. it could have greater impact than on others but the impact is there. education, you know, whether it's 911 g.i. bill, vocational, rehabilitation, i'm employment. there are highs that go to the

department of education. so we are not an independent operator. employment, veterans employment, is a high priority for us and for all of you. the department of labor, and as you indicated small business administration does play as well. >> thank you. and the second question, you and i have talked several times about french camp façade the borders mine and target benignity's district. affecting all of our veterans. the ongoing construction project, can you outline what a protracted or a long delay in funding for a long, ma a long delay in funding would affect both our ongoing construction project, staff at the va, or the planning for future via construction projects.

>> congress than, i'll get back to you with specifics on french camp which is a more detailed than i have time to brush up on but let me just say that in the office that over watches construction, but also of acquisition, logistics and construction. so dependent on which of those topics, they are variously affected by the shutdown. in the case of construction, for those construction activities that are underway, those will continue. our oversight responsibilities will be reduced, but we will continue to provide oversight as best we can, ensuring that the requirements of the contract are met. here i'm talking about 52 projects and about $12 billion of construction. the major projects will continue.

design, on the other hand, about 20 projects might be delayed. and may be significantly delayed the pentagon how long this process goes. and so your question about french camp, i just need to find out exactly where we are in this process. of the aspects of this, major leasing actions, about 33 projects liable to be delayed here. examples would be the greenville north carolina outpatient clinic. south bend, indiana, community based outpatient clinic but were pennsylvania. and so i would like to see these uninterrupted. but there will be some delays, significance to be determined by how long the shutdown continues. >> thank you, mr. secretary. i yield back. >> thank you. ms. brownley.

>> thank you, mr. chair, and thank you, mr. secretary, for being here with us today. and i certainly agree with your remarks on the importance of passing a complete and clean continuing resolution. that will provide the certainty i think americans are looking for in their government and their leaders. as you know, last week the house passed h.j. res. 72 which was an attempt i think to provide some funding for our nation's veterans in the middle of this debate that we are having. i think that clearly that particular bill, in my view, still underfunded a lot of different areas. and i wanted you, if you could, to just sort of speak to that. you've already mentioned i think a couple, but he could comment a

little bit more -- but if you could comment on the more specific around let's say the medical and prosthetic budget but i don't believe was funded in that resolution. you mentioned something i think a little on the technology piece. the office of the inspector general, the grants the va homes, grants to state cemeteries and the like. if you could comment a little bit more specifically about the impacts there. >> sure. as i indicated earlier, with advanced appropriations for health care administration, a large portion of va is fully funded. i would say well over approximately 80% is funded, and those activities continued. there are pieces of our medical activities that don't come under advanced appropriations. and so you cited a couple, research is another area. and so those activities would

stop until we had a full budget. >> thank you. and just to follow up on an area, i don't think we have spoken too much about so far having to do with the g.i. bill's and what that would mean the veterans who are enrolled in colleges and universities across the country. does that mean that they cannot continue? they need to drop out? how are we going to handle that? >> so, what i would say here is that the two accounts i'm dealing with, one is a carryover, appropriations, money that were not expanded in 13. this carryover in the benefits administration i think roughly $40 million was used to keep that office open as long as possible to take care of all of

the various categories of claims, education among them, disability, pension, compensation, vocational rehab and education claims. that money was exhausted on seven october. so on the eighth week furloughs over 7800, the workforce and the benefits administration. we still have about 13,000 people working because we have, under the law, declared them accepted, and they are accepted because, and the other account, mandatory funding account, which currently has money in it but that will run out before the end of the month. and so we have these folks processing claims, and where it's appropriaappropria te to make a decision today and pay today, retroactive claims, for example, to pay that back pay if

you will get we are doing that. but every payment we make reduces the amount of mandatory funds, and before the end of the month this account will be exhausted. at that point these 13,000 or so people who are doing this will have no reason to continue to function. because the necessary implication clause that allows them to work will be exceeded when the mandatory account is exhausted. and at that point they will be furloughed. and our veterans benefits administration will be reduced, no, something over 1000, maybe less than 1500 folks who will continue to operate in our 56 regional offices, and our call centers. and the reason for that is every

veteran who submits a claim will require them -- we are required to accept it, date stamp it so there's a place in line for them to be recognized when funding is restored. for education claims, students who are currently in school, as those come up we will pay those like we do the retroactive claims. but at some point that is a draw on the mandatory account, and that will end before the end of this month. and i will be required to furlough a large portion of the -- of that 13,000 workforce. >> thank you, sir. and again i appreciate you being here. i yield back. >> mr. runyan, you are recognized. >> thank you, mr. chairman. secretary, thanks again for your testimony. kind of answered a couple of my questions over there, but what

is the last day of the calendar month you can process all of those payments for time received on the first of the month? >> it again, it will be later this month, towards the end of the month. you know, the exact day is going to be determined by, pardon the term, the burn rate here. and once mandatory account is no longer solvent, then it will start. but we are processing claims as fast and as hard as we can. as we were before one october. we want to make sure we get as many of those claims ready to be paid as soon as the budget is provided. that's a description i get our folks about setting up your fighting position. when the budget is provided we go to work and we start paying benefits. >> has there been any discussion within your department and/or your staff on prioritization of

claims, i.e. fully disabled, that type of thing, as you get near that deadline come the first of the month? >> there are a good portion, i was to over 400,000, 100% disabled veterans who will be affected by our inability to deliver checks on one november. 5 million beneficiaries, over 5 million, 5.18 million i think is a closer number, but there's a good portion of them as i've indicated who are 100% disabled. and amongst them, you know, there will be survivors, surviving spouses, children orphaned by the death of their service member or veteran parents. >> there's been no discussion of priority there. you are just doing it as they go

through the process? >> well, we are operating at, you know, while we have the funds to operate. we do prioritize in our processing of claims for financially challenged veterans or claimants. medal of honor recipients, former prisoners of war, terminally ill. and then we add to that fully develop claims because they are easier to process. but in the processing business, that is where we get priority and then we work, you know, the remaining of the claims. and i would say in september, we produced the biggest production output since i've been here, 128,000 claims.

but once it goes into the payment process, congressman, then there is a sequence that goes along with how they are then put in line. >> going through the, hopefully when they get out of this mess, obviously chairing the subcommittee are giving with the claims, it's a project. can you provide information on epa's funding and the future plans for use of mandatory overtime to address the backlog? >> mandatory use in the future you know, we use mandatory overtime, it's a device that's been used over the last several years when we see an opportunity and we want to get more production because for some reason we've gotten a little behind. and so in may we declared we're

going to do this until the end of the year. our 2014 budget as $50 million in it for overtime. and that's essentially what i was counting on, on one october to be able to transition to the. so we do have a plan. we do need that piece of the budget recognized so we can resume our overtime option. part of what we, as we begin to close out the year, before we knew that a shutdown was going to occur, and as we're trying to assess how much carryover we're going to have, we thought we were going to be able to carry over $40 million to apply, to add to the 50 million that's in the budget, so they give us a good run at the year of additional overtime. so the numbers would be up there

goes her to $100 million, 90 million or so. that $40 million was used to keep our operation going for as long as possible to get as many claims lined up before the end of the month. >> i want to thank you for that because we had a hearing about some difficulty with legislative affairs a couple weeks back, and have had issues with getting an answer like that so i appreciate that. yield back. >> thank you, mr. runyan. ms. kirkpatrick, you are recognized for five minutes. >> thank you, mr. secretary. one of the important projects that that he has been working on is the transition to a paperless system for claims benefit processing. and yet in your windows when you say on monday, 2764 employees were for love and 7800 gba employs furloughed yesterday. would you describe for me and for our committee what impact

does furloughs are going to have on that transition to the paperless system? right now, gives a snapshot right now this week, and then what it looks like if this shutdown continues into november. >> very important question. congresswoman, as you know we have set a long-term goal of ending the backlog in 2015. key to that has been the automated system we put into place. and we feel that, finished feeling that six months ahead of schedule in june. that's fielding the sort of basic model, and much like any i.t. operation you have newer versions that add capability coming give you more robustness, and then reduce the workload. so all of those plans have been in place. we've had to put a hold on.

there's no new development work being done for vb eight and there is much to be done if we are going to get this up to where we expected we would have it to be able to hold our target of ending the backlog in 2015. i haven't given up on that. i'm hoping that we'll have an opportunity here to get back on track. but the longer we go more difficult that becomes. what i would like to assure you though is that i am allowed by the rules to maintain what we have. i can't add, i can't make it better, i can't increase capability. but i can and will maintain the operation. so if computers are having problems, i have sufficient workforce to be able to bring them back online. >> but basically what you're saying is if there's any progress in that project it has come to screeching halt? >> that's correct.

>> let me ask you, mr. secretary, you were a general with an outstanding distinguished combat record. congress voted to pay federal employees when the shutdown ends so they will be paid, does it make any sense to you to not allow them to work? >> i can't think of many. and they are ready to work. they are -- i would just refer to the folks in the benefits administration who have brought this back law down, 193 claims in about 190 days. lots of folks wondered whether we're going to be able to do it. vbms will be important to that effort but cbs is just coming online. so all of this work is done by the good folks in the benefits administration. i would speak for them.

they are disappointed that the ground they gained is being lost day by day. >> i just want to thank you for your leadership under the department, and thank your employees for your good hard work. thank you, and i get back. >> i would like to remind my colleague that only the house has passed a bill that would allow for furloughed workers. the senate continues to hold fast and not helping us resolve this particular situation. dr. kinner scheck. >> thank you, mr. chairman. and thank you mr. sager for being here today. i, like all my college would like to see this shutdown put behind us as soon as possible. and, frankly, wish that the appropriation process went on and read or that we would pass the appropriate appropriations for all of the government. i'm happy that the house has passed military construction and

va bill in a bipartisan fashion and hope that the senate acts on that. and, frankly, i think that the entire government should be funding in that usual fashion, that this policy of containing resolution is just a bad policy. but nevertheless, then, i understand that we have to get something done. i have a couple of questions about the communications between va and the committee here. as i understand it, correct me if i'm wrong, apparently the department issued a notice in late september that 95% of the employees were either fully funded or exempted from furloughs, is that correct? >> i would ask for the opportunity to go and retrieve whatever this announcement you're referring to, but i would say that if you look at va as a whole, 90% of us are in the a. j. and they are fully fund.

so as a one october hospitals are seeing patients, commend today's outpatient clinics are operating. i can understand why the information was provided. but again, congressman, trying to close out 13 and understanding what kind of resource capability we're going to have, expect that it will have a budget on one october, knowing that vha had a budget because it was passed last year through the advanced appropriations provision that you all have provided, so i think the 95 for% who's a friend to was advanced funding. >> frankly i tend to agree with you on the advanced funding issue. franca i don't see why we have -- were don't have two-year

budgeting for everything. it would allow us more time to get the appropriations done. the president on september 30 indicated some ptsd counseling would be affected by the shutdown. is that true? >> i would say we are open for business at va, and i believe, as i said, we have ties to other departments, the ihs, indian health service. we have veterans being served there. who, if those operations are not funded are not being seen for any variety of requirements. ptsd being one. alaskan natives who are veterans that we provide services to through either the consortium there or through ihs, are

probably not being seen. and that's what i say we can focus on the a as long as we understand that there's a broader -- >> i understand that the cooperation with other departments is going to be hindered by this situation. there's no medical center is being shut down though, right? policy boxer going to be open, that's correct, is that right? >> there is one that is affected and that is north chicago, a joint initiative between the united states navy and va. it operates off a joint account in which we each contribute dollars. so that is affected. >> why is that being effected? i thought we funded, the present signed the bill that -- >> the authorization to continue

to fund that is the issue. however, we have accepted all of these siblings staff accepted meaning that they will continue to work, continue to see service members and veterans and families and then we'll look for an opportunity than to make right. their compensation. >> i know i was, i take this opportunity to urge my senate cause to come to the table and get this figured out. so thank you very much. i'm out of time. >> thank you. ms. kuster, you're recognized for five minutes. >> thank you very much, and thank you, secretary shinseki come for being with us today. my questions have to do with the veteran centers and the services that in my district in new hampshire, particularly bible to counseling, the group therapy,

and just having a place to go. i'm just wondering where this falls in the shutdown spent all 300 dead senate will continue to operate. they are covered under the health administrations appropriations. so they are funded for the year. >> okay, thank you. and then my next question has to do with the november 1 payments. could you give us a more accurate sincere, we very much want a clean c.r., get the country back to work, but each day that goes by seems to be critical in this. is there, i would imagine with a number of checks they go out, there's a process and procedure that takes a period of time. could you give us a sense -- you've talked about the end of thofthe month.

could you give us a sense of the number of days that a delay in reopening the government would cause a delay in those payments being received after the first of november? >> sure. if the mandatory account, the account against which i am writing checks, so to speak, processing claims and having them ready to be executed. but as that account has demands written against it, it is exhausted at some point before the end of the month. the reason i can't be more specific, the rate at which i'm able to do this. but before the end of the month, the mandatory account will not support payments in november. even though i have checks lined up to draw against it. i think, indicated $6.25 billion of requirements, and i will be

down to about $2 billion. and if i can't pay it all, it stops. and so on one november right now unless i can provide mandatory funding to make the account solvent again, one november i will not be spending -- sending checks out. >> and could you give us a sense of the scope of that, the types of people whose lives will be irreparably harmed and sort of the categories and the numbers of that devastation? >> i think i gave sort of a rough population of 5.18 million beneficiaries. and these are compensation payments, these are pension payments. these are education payments. and vocational rehabilitation and employment payments as well. and within this category are

veterans. there are also servicemen was because we of active duty members who participate in some of our programs. we have surviving spouses and children who have lost parents. >> and i know you can't speculate as to peoples lies but would you say that these are people that generally don't have a lot of savings to fall back on, that missing this type of disability check for this type of compensation check could really set them back? >> our eligibility for va benefits these usually income-based. and so i would say that a large portion of the beneficiaries we service our lower waged, and are in need of our help. there will be those who, by virtue of the severity of their combat injuries, well-qualified

because of that. but by and large, our patient population is older, sicker, and need of support. >> thank you, mr. secretary. i yield back my time. i hope, appreciate you coming today and i hope that your testimony will cause all of us to redouble our efforts to get the government back to work. thank you for your service. >> mr. secretary, did i hear you say that disability is income-based, disability rating? >> no. i said there are some because by virtue of the severity of their disabilities, come in at a high category here. but in the lower categories -- >> people with shaving bumps or sleep apnea or hemorrhoids, are all those disciplines that are out there today, they get that regardless of this, correct? >> well, mr. chairman, you're getting into some detail here

that i probably want to give you a better answer for. i would just tell you that -- i'll do my best to answer your question on some of those issues, but one november, no mandatory account, 5.18 million beneficiaries do not receive checks. and in response to the congresswoman's question, a large portion of them are compensation or beneficiary checks are crucial to their being able to have order in their lives. >> mr. huelskamp. >> thank you, mr. chairman to appreciate the opportunity, and i really find this a difficult question to ask you, mr. shinseki, given the discussion we've had, but do you think senator reid doesn't like our veterans or the va in particular?

and it is a tough question to the reason i asked that, mr. secretary, is that as the chairman has indicated, 127 days ago the u.s. house passed the appropriations. 105 days ago the appropriations committee actually sent to the floor of the u.s. senate, and for 105 days now, senator harry reid has refused to bring the appropriations to a vote in the u.s. senate. have you visited with the senator and asked him, could you please bring that to a vote in the u.s. senate? >> mr. huelskamp, i'm happy to answer the question about senator reid. personally, i think he is very highly values -- he's very highly values veterans. as to why we are unable -- congress is unable to do its business i believe to the members to discuss.

>> okay. and i appreciate that, and and you mentioned congress. it is an issue in the u.s. senate. have you visited with the senator? i've been disappointed in the house that four out of 12 appropriations bills has always passed to the u.s. house, and that includes the year budget. that means it out of 12 have not past year, a 12 out of 12 have not pass hear anything and that's been the case since 2009. is there any indication in your visits with the senator that they would consider at least passing your appropriations, mr. shinseki? and i appreciate the work you've done to continue to meet the needs of our veterans in this shutdown period. >> to your specific question, have i visited senator reid over this, i would answer i have not. it is not something that i would ordinarily do.

i deal with this committee and with the appropriate committee in the senate when it comes to my budget, and that's where the work is done. >> and i haven't compared the budget became other the senate appropriations committee. i compared it to what came to the house by a pretty white man margin and hope it would meet your need. i would encourage perhaps the conversation to take place. i would ask you specifically about cemeteries. are all of your cemeteries still open and for business and would they be impacted in late october like you have indicated for other programs? >> congressman, that's a great question. i will tell you that our operations will continue. at some point here in the next days to weeks we will expand our carryover monies for nca. and we will be totaling a good portion of the force. however, our cemeteries will go

into a modified burial schedule which means we will continue taking care of families and burying our honored, but it won't be at the rate that we have planned or would like. >> our cemeteries will be open for our normal hours, which is sunrise to sunset. you may see some of our maintenance standards go of it because we won't be able to maintain the high standards we would like to have, but that's all retrieval once we have a budget. but focus here is on taking care of families on the most painful day for them, and making sure they feel that their veteran is respected and has been accorded dignified burial. >> thank you, mr. secretary. i appreciate that assurance, and your current work to make sure that's available for our

veterans and, obviously, their families as well. you have seen the images of other federal places in locations that have been dedicated to our veterans. but i wanted to make certain we keep the cemeteries opened them and appreciate your work in doing that. and making certain that does occur, and i yield back my time, mr. chairman. spent i think does go without saying that we all care about the veterans of this country. and what we do have is a failure to communicate, negotiate. and there has been a breakdown in the institutional process of how appropriation bills are, in fact, passed through both houses of congress. if i'm not mistaken i think that the milcon bill that has been passed out of the house only had four dissenting votes. so suffice it to say that it was an extremely bipartisan piece of legislation. i'd like to echo that. >> well, thank you, mr. chairman. i would like to give the child

in 30 seconds to apologize to senator reid. that's beneath this to me on questioning summers commitment to veterans. we may have differences on policy. we don't have differences on love this country. i would give 30 seconds to the gentleman if he wishes to claim it. >> thank you. i was asking the question given its very clear as the chairman has indicated that senator reid controls the calendar and has the opportunity to move the bill to the floor. and since this shutdown has occurred, unless there were some recorded votes yesterday, we have had seven days in which there's -- >> i reclaim my time. disappointed to say the least. i hope it goes on the record. the one thing i would say is this committee combined proud to serve on a, it is one of the few places that works in congress. the collaboration in it is incredible. the work that's done down to the granular level by subcommittees is about and that's a testament

to you, mr. chairman, that you give that power to people. i sat in this very chair arguing and making the case for advanced appropriations on vha with my colleagues, and we do that. that was progress. we started and make progress. you know, mr. second, the work you've done. i'm proud of it and i said it time and time again. i'm your staunchest supporter but your harshest critic. when you get something wrong, we bring it up and we how to make it better. the conscience that sits behind you were presenting millions of veterans expects that of us. and it still worked to want to disappoint about this is a is as a disappointing when we get into this, we are wasting valuable time and resources by a self-inflicted wound that should be going towards our veterans. and it is so frustrating. and what happens, and i appreciate my colleagues on this but here's what happens. it starts to be cancerous into this committee. last week when the bill came up on the veterans to try to do a

c.r. and tried to make the case, be very clear about this, your time to find ways and i respect that, but in that bill come and mr. runyan held a field hearing and made a great case for a veterans cemetery that's been needed for decades in southern minnesota. there's the grant process that you ministered that ranked as number one. three weeks ago we got that notice and there was a thank you from thousands, 56,000 veterans in southern minnesota and northern iowa we are going to get the. last week's bill zeroed that out. i know you didn't do that on purpose just to get the ire of my veterans. i can't support that but with an wanted a second that my vote that campaign committee on the republican side said an attack i don't support veterans by doing that. there's lots of reasons to tell people not to vote for me. not supporting veterans is not one of them. we've worked to get that right and that's will get the point where people stress test, anger, frustration, we can come together. the continuous going back and

forth, i don't question a single person's commitment to our veterans and the love of our country i think you are wrong on some of the policy. this is the place to debate that. not a martial law of rules that goes too far with no and so the campaign committee can send out an attack and died when an election while veterans are sitting at home saying, why do i hate congress? do i need to see see anymore pr? so mr. secretary, i'm frustrated you are here. i appreciate you trying to go out is to understand where where some of the questions are going. that this wouldn't be so bad if you just prioritized. but the questions i was going to ask you and to. interagency collaboration is breaking down. that is incredibly important that it helps move forward. i.t. and as impacts electronic medical records that we fought together for seven years i've been sitting here trying to get that right, that progress is going backwards. i don't really have any questions for you. i trust that you -- and the thing i would say about this, the comment that we shouldn't talk about furloughs or whatever, the va is our position

of people. furloughs are the most critical issue. it's the best in the world is because of the people. windows people have inserted of those people are laid off, those people are not there, it can impact. that's why we advanced appropriated. but, you know, it yourself, mr. runyan asked a beautiful question. not having the i.t. budget advanced appropriated has a beautiful mri machine unhooked in new jersey that can tell patients in some cases. that doesn't make any sense. we should today talking about that in the conflict and end with the chairmen and ranking member of approach this the right way. the fix to this and the way to does but we anticipate three years ago when we get a sense of corporations, remove veterans from this fight. don't allow people to grandstand and use them as pawns and continue to work to go forward. there is a suggest of the against appropriation on the full be a fun is the way to go. and with that i think you and i yell back. >> thank you very much, mr. walz but if i can ask the committee

intelligence for just one second. and recognize ms. kirkpatrick for an introduction. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i just wanted to welcome to the committee mr. and mrs. somers who were in the back of the room. their son, daniel, an arizona veteran committed suicide earlier this year. we are going to be doing a roundtable with them in this committee room at 1:30 p.m. so i just want to acknowledge their presence and committee welcome, and invite everybody to participate in the roundtable at 1:30 p.m. i yield back. thank you, mr. chairman. [applause] >> we welcome the somers to the committee room and to congress. we certainly had our condolences to you, and thank you for your son service, and for your extremely passionate and we are extra me sorry for your loss. with that, mr. amodei, you are recognized. >> thanks, mr. chairman. mr. secretary, going back to the

cemetery thing for just a second. under the heading of triage until something changes. do your present procedures allow on a case-by-case basis if there is private funding available to go ahead and either compensate the va personnel at cemeteries to perform burials in a timely manner? is there anything that would prevent if somebody said listen, we want to great expense to go ahead and do this in the normal instead of warehousing people, is there anything that prohibits that from happening? >> congressman, i'm not aware that there's anything that prohibits that. but again, we tried to serve all the veterans that come to us and as equitable manner as we can, or at least the appearance of equal treatment. and so just let me research that and come back to you. what i will tell you is we continued our burial operations.

just at a rate less than we're accustomed to. last year, 122000 veterans were laid to rest. >> i appreciate that. i'm just saying if an instance develop somewhere in the country at a cemetery were so we says it's going to be a few weeks and they say, we will go ahead and incur the expense to have it happen in three days are now or something like that, it's not something, or i guess my question that you get back to me on, is there's nothing that prohibits an infusion of funds from a non-appropriated private source allows somebody to do that in whatever the customary manner is? >> congressman, my guess is if it were permitted i would be doing it now. my guess is that these are funded positions and people have been put on furlough because of the law, and i want to be careful here that i don't suggest that we have ways to work around it. but i will take a look at it.

>> when you look at it, make very certain it is at no cost to the government so it's reimbursement for whatever the costs are, so if furlough people have to be brought back at non-government expense in there better be a pretty long opinion that says no, we will not allow somebody to pay our folks, whatever the expense may be. and with that i would yield back. thank you, mr. secretary. ..