what is largely in place almost all of urban america including this extraordinary city we hear it at the moment. . .

let's have a conversation between -- >> okay. a liberal and conservative but i think we share a love for puerto rico. we share a love for immigrants. we are committed to immigration reform. i found the book fascinating. a great story telling. you have a great sense of humor. there's some fantastic ante-dote here. i strongly recommend everyone should read this book. t a fabulous book. now as i read it, two words came to mind. identity and empowerment. two words that describe lewis. a commitment to your roots, and commitment to empower the latino community. is that a fair assessment of who you are? >> guest: i think we try describe to the reader what is that is a vocation for immigration and immigration

reform? why has he made that a priority? and if you read the book, you begin to understand my mom and dad had nothing in portière tow. they had nothing. they no future. it was very sad. they had gone to grade school and came to america without a coat, without language skills, without -- nothing except desire. as immigrants don't come to the country. they are puerto rican. every other aspect they had to confront. they came in '52. in new york 60 years ago the headline in new york city we were bringing diseases. how do we stop them from coming to new york? they didn't want to speect language and wanted to get on welfare. how many times have we heard the same description of immigrants today? i wanted to inform people about how it is i'm brought up.

i remember living -- look, i i was born in '35 ten years before the civil rights act. and ask you what were you doing? you were always a suspect in your own neighborhood. number one. more other, there were beaches you knew better than to go to. there were swimming pools and neighborhood z that were inassessble to you because they were for whites only. they might have been in chicago. and going to puerto rico where i'm not puerto rican understand. >> host: we have to see your childhood, as you were saying growing up in puerto rican lincoln park. when you were 15, your dad tells you, son, we're moving to part rocco. this is what you say in the book. i think moving wasn't a choice for my dad.

it was an obligation. were my parents tired of english language? yes. it was the drugs, gangs, assassination. it was time to go to puerto rico. you were told you were going to puerto rico. you were living your friend, everything you knew. you went to puerto rico a place you heard about. >> guest: first of all, i grew up in a bi-- bilingual household. my parents spoke to me in spanish and i responded in english. they unmy english, i understood their spanish. i was never equipped to go to puerto rico. it was my dad and mom's dream. it was their goal. my dad didn't call family meetings to discuss the future. you if what you were told. it wasn't hard. but you know what? as i describe in the book, there

and later on, i mean, think about what activity like for my mom and dad. they came to america. they had two teenagers. my sister and i. what did i see around them? they saw gangs, drug, they were deeply and devote catholics. what did they see? they saw jfk. we had a picture of jfk. we had see us -- jesus. we had a picture of jfk and they saw him murdered and another good catholic, in their mind, robert f. kennedy. martin luther king. they had hippies, movements, and drugs. there was such a time in the united states, i mean, when martin luther king of assassinated, they saw the national guard on our streets in the city of chicago. they saw riting -- rioting. i think my dad said it's time to go back to the mountains of puerto rico. the place safer so i can finish

raiding the children. >> >> host: because you grew up in puerto rican neighborhood you thought you were -- they see you as a guy from the u.s. as american. >> guest: right. >> host: there's a great story here. you're in class and you talk to the girl and approach her and introduce yourself and she said -- [speaking in spanish] he was bothering me. of she talking about me? you go puerto rico and you're the -- how do you deal with that? >> guest: it was very, very difficult. it was a painful time. i mean, i used to think that adolescence, you know, adolescence was the science of pain. because i thought -- [speaking in spanish] pain and science. they are -- i learned some -- that it's about growing. it's a very painful time. adolescence could be the science of pain. it's a painful time for all of

us. , to be rejected and isolated. i also write about my friend and how they took an interest in me. how people cape umm to -- came up to me from the report rei -- puerto rican -- welcome home. that was very, very important time in my life. how did i -- i learned spanish but, you know, i was in the spanish emergent. you and i understand that in 1969, to be in -- in the mountains as we talked about earlier, the mountains is really much more tradition of puerto rico and puerto rican and informs us more about who we are than the beaches. the beaches is more of a tourist phenomena. we're not a country of surfers and -- >> guest: it's a mountain culture. >> host: it's coffee and sugar

cane. and sugar cane was the life blood of it. when i get there i see sue -- sugar cane and coffee and agriculture and i said -- [inaudible] i begin the interesting thing is i describe in the book too it taught me, in chicago, one social class. you were all puerto ricans. there wasn't an upper class, a middle class, and lower class. we were all in the same class. the puerto rican class that liberalizeds in the city of chicago. everybody drove a cab or worked in a factory or swept floors or washed dishes. you were working-class people. in puerto rico i realize social class and the social structure and the division made on the color of your skin and income and who you are in term of your income. i try to describe some of that

the unity you saw in the states, you know, among puerto ricans not necessarily there in the -- >> host: no. let say the greatest guy in my neighborhood, the entrepreneur, right, the top guy might have been owned the local grocery store. he probably was wealthy in comparison to the rest of us. we know he had more money. he had what at the counter? [speaking in spanish] how much you took and credit that day and how much you owed. and but he was an institution. and you know what? i never i remember him charging interest. he kept you as a client. and of it a little part of puerto rico in the united. and every now and then they would show up and -- >> host: when you go to places like that. in puerto rico, i read the book it's where your political

conscience awaking. you become involved with an independent -- [inaudible] puerto rico independence party. what was it about independence party which was a minority party? your parents, as i understand, were -- the party power that supports the political status. what was it about puerto rico party that excited you and lead you to get politically involved? >> guest: two things. number one, remember, [speaking in spanish] it's like and they come -- doctors, lawyers, architects. many men of women and industry

of commerce. -- do you know, how many -- they were women and men. and so i listened to them. plus, they didn't call me begin go. they saw a fellow portière con exiled of the colonial status. ton of people fled the island in the 50s to find a better future. the island didn't sustain a better hope. i would like to say there was -- you had to be there. to see the young man and he could take an extended metaphor and build to a speech to the point. there was that. as i real layed in the book. maybe i could be an education. if so you a son and he comes to you and ask you for political

advice. be careful what you tell him not to join. [laughter] maybe that's where he's going. as i relayed in the book. >> host: before we continue with your political career. there's something that struck me about the book which says a lot about you and immigrant families and your work ethic. where it certainly comes from your father. when you move back from chicago to puerto rico, he starts a restaurant -- didn't go very well. after that, he went to college, after college you were always working. at what point you started driving a cab because you needed to make money to go back to puerto rico to meet up with your future wife. and seems to me, from reading the boob, i -- book, i think you say at one point it was important to show you were hard working. that the puerto ricans have a good work ethic. there are many --

still today, that like that use racist characterization of puerto rican of immigrants saying lazy and on welfare. you were always working >> guest: i was always working. i like when a told a story of my dad and his restaurant, there was many times as you relay and go back and become sad tonight think, you know, they worked so hard. to have the restaurant. my dad never even gave it a name. never even gave it a name. he, worked so hard. i can imagine howdies allusioned he was. how heart broken he must have been. he continued forward. indian there's a time when you need the government. i understand that. i don't question. i don't judge people if they

fall upon hard time. i've always felt and strived at every part of my life. when i couldn't find -- i'm in chicago. i'm married. it's 1977, i my bachelor degree. i'm latino. you think they are looking for young, bright, articulate people to work for you and your company. no, one application after another. i thought to myself, i did this in college. i drove a cab. i have to tell you, it was hard. because i was driving a cab and so many plans and so many -- and i remember when i went back to see my dad that christmas and he said after all of the effort and the expense for you to wind up doing exactly what i did. i kept saying, dad, it's a stage. it's a moment i have to work and keep self-respect and dignity. i have to work. it's something that puts food

and pays the rent. having said that, it was good for me. right. and -- right now. every day from all over the world, lawyers, doctors, probably because i have to do it. to sustain their family. >> they do all kind of work. they are the substantiate to the assistant in the medical office when they have a degree. a medical degree. they are legal aid; right. some paralegal when they were a lawyer. this happens but they worked their way back. i think the story of america, to tell you the truth. i mean, part of sometimes i look at the immigrant community and i always -- they don't want to work. are you kidding? they get one job and many times with immigrants think what am i going to do for the next eight hours. maybe i need a second job. they are always looking for a way toed a van economically. -- advance economically. >> host: the political interest was there. commitment to the community. and something happens when you

get back. you marry the love of your life. how many years? >> guest: 35. >> host: congratulations. at that time, you went back to chicago. just like your parents did. looking far better future. you were not necessarily -- politically but something happens that makes you think i have to get involved? can you describe about what happened? >> guest: i think it's a very important moment in my life. we would not be having this conversation had it not been if that. in chicago there was an election for mayor in 1983, the incumbent, richie bay lay, the son of the mayor is the state attorney. they fight. harrold washington, who was a freshman member of congress is compelled by the commune toy run for mayor. and he wins the democratic

nomination for mayor. they called it subsequently beirut on the lake. at that time what they called it. he wins the nomination. on my door come knocking officials from dan -- who is dan roth skin ski? the congressman also the chairman of the ways & means committee. probably -- power of the commie. -- powerful committee. a leader in the democratic caucus. what it is precinct workers doing? supporting the republican nominee. under the scenes before it's too late. and i'm sitting there in my home listening to the guys ask me to be a big got, to be a racist, to somehow be prejudice. i said no, he won the democratic nomination. you're in the democratic party. you and dan and all of the white

democratic party should be ashamed of yourself. >> they didn't want an african-american. glg they didn't want a black man to be the mayor of chicago. the lights wouldn't come on, the garbage wouldn't be picked up. there would be cay use and up and down -- pandemonium in the city. they were visually booed when they visited a church an sunday. so i just want you to think of a time in which the city was really -- stood up, you know? i like -- [inaudible] i had just gotten my first house. we used to watch -- [inaudible] and watch how they sanded the floors and how they refinished the wood work. how do you do the dry walling and rerouted your bathroom. we were happy. we played dominoes with my friend, i had a job. i was happy. you know, a birthday party

here. a baptism there and a wedding and your life was complete. we also planned flowers in the front yard. then they knocked on my door and said, you know, maybe i'm going have a fewless game of come knees on weekend and the water -- my life will change. i need to get involved politically. i supported harrold washington. the next year i ran against dan got beaten. for word committee man and got 24% of the vote. it changed my life. >> host: you were taking the chicago democratic political machine. supporting harrold washington and challenging dan. >> guest: right. >> host: congressman we're going to have to cut it shut. you're being called to a vote on the floor. on the go? after words is available via pod cast through i tune and x lm. visit booktv.org and click pod

cast on the upper social security on the page. select which you would like to dpownl and listen while you travel. you decided to take dan and the democratic political machine in chicago i'm sure they were not happy with you. how was that? >> guest: number one. i was very angry and disallusioned. at the same time very motivated with the high level of spirit to say, you know, we need a democratic party that doesn't use racism barometer. i kept thinking of martin luther king, you know, and how people were going to be judged by the content of their character not the color of their skin. yet in chicago in 1983, we were still judging people on the color of their skin. and the democratic party of doing it. >> guest: the incredible thing. you decide to fight them and win in the precinct. >> host: in 1983, harrold washington had thousand of volunteers just like me.

young people with grown-up in the '60s and '70s and ready for change. harrold was a larger than life figure. he was eloquent. at the same time, he was inspiring. he inspired me. i went and won my precinct 280 to 220. toirm this day, winning that precinct. and the next year, i run against dan. the committee man and think i have to replicate this in 50 more precinct and i'm a sure winner. it wasn't quite that way. i got 024% of the vote. i want the public to understand the next time you say he got 80% of the vote l.a. november. it wasn't always that way. i got 24% of the vote i want to underscore. every one of my neighbors had a dan poster in their window. they were orange and blue. what a color. what a color combination. >> host: you get your reputation as a rebel.

but somebody who stands as principle and willing to go again your own party and the machine if you believe in what you're doing. >> guest: i did the right decision to make. washington, after that campaign, invited know join his administration. he becomes a mentor. >> host: he does. we get to meet and talk. kids like me, i'm 30 years old. i'm sitting down with the mayor of the city of chicago. he's mentoring me, teaching me, i'm learning. he gives mae job. the responsibilities that i have. and he -- my story is not unique. there were hundreds of other young men and women that were give their first job -- he opened it up for women, gays, for latinos, and for black people to finally have positions of responsibility and, you know, all he asked was to do a good job and make sure that everyone -- regardless of the color of their skin or what neighborhood they

lived in this chicago got a fair and square deal. >> host: he won the office of mayor but didn't control the city council. and he asked you to run to see if he could control the city council. you basically delivered. >> guest: i won. i won. in the city council, there are 50 members. 25 to 25 is a tie. guess who breaks the tie? the mayor of the city of chicago. he's the presiding office. i was the 25th vote. once i become the 25th vote, the commissioner on the board of education and the park district and the commission economic development board. he gets a budget that is his budget. he sells general obligation bonds so we can help with housing and streets and curve and gutters and bridges and begin infrastructure that the city needed. i loved working as an elderman, but i have to say one thing, i had a lot less power and

influence as one of the 50 than i did as a member of his inner circle working in his administrative substantiate in the mayor's office. the executive branch of government wheels a lot of power and influence. >> host: washington was important to you dies unexpectedly. and everything goes back to what it was before. what was that moment for you? >> guest: to say that i cried is to understate what happened. the sadness that i felt. i was uncertain whether i wanted to stay in politics. even though i was just getting elected. it was like what for? my leader died. i ran for committeeman a few months. you know what i was lucky because my wife and i went to see him in november in three weeks before he died. and we told him we were going name our son harrold if it was a

boy. not to expect us to call her harrold -- it wasn't going to happen. and, you know, he passed away knowing that. but that's how much my wife and i thought of him. we would name our next child -- if it was a boy. and we a girl. so her name is jessica washington. her middle name and jessica is so proud because she later in her life she said, dad, i want to find out it was a teenager already. i researched it. thank you. what a great man you named me after my middle name. so that was the kind of experience. he passed away, the city council really fell apart. then in 1989, i had to make a decision about my future putted to congress. come to congress. i wanted to continue to work. there was an election, and daily -- the attorney is going run. no longer is there an inspiration of figure of harrold

washington. we sat down and talked, i endorsed him. as i write in the book. i didn't want it to be another politician and endorsing the white political establishment guy. you want me to endorse you. here are a set of agreements we need reach. he expanded the number of commissioners. actual member of the cabinet to one under harrold washington to six. he did many things. >> host: you were essential in getting rich daily. >> guest: they thought it was pretty important to have the guy that stood out there for change and for reform and with harmed washington. because what did the city council want in '89 after counsel war? they wanted peace, they wanted tran quillly. they wanted a council that worked together and stopped fighting one another. since i was one of the figures that was a fighting figure. kind of ironic in chicago they saw as a rebel and controversial

figure. now they were seeking you out. >> guest: and it was wonderful because i got negotiate with them who would become the secretary of commerce's brother. bill was the mayor's brother and became the chief of staff to the president. get meet a lot of people and learn a lot of valuable lessons. one of the thing i thought was important we expand the right of the people of the chicago. i think question many of those thing. i know, we did many of those things. in '92 i got re-elected in '91. in '92 i ran for the chicago -- for congress. and he supported me. and his support -- the support of mayor was critical. and most essential. anybody who looked at it. >> guest: you realized you could make it difference for the latino community at the national level. >> guest: i did. and i knew if i was going to do that -- now i'm i elected and what is my

first challenge? newscast that. -- naft that. who is in charge of negotiating it? the mayor's brother who was co-chairman of my campaign. who wants know vote for it? the mayor. and saying i did so much. we're working together. i need you to vote. i voted against it. i thought it was the wrong thing. people would say, hey, he was good to you and supported you. look, i'm always going what i believe is correct especially on major policy. >> what i found incredible when you get to congress in typical fashion you say i'm not here just to -- president clinton imposed a pay freeze. it included member of congress. they said that's not fair. so i'm going introduce legislation to freeze the salvation army of members of congress. and the member of congress

didn't like that. one came up to me and said don't you stick your hand in the pocket again. i was a freshman member. i thought president gets the first state of the union address to president clinton said the budget time for austerity. we have to control the budget and spend. he said, i'm going freeze and congress stands up and applauds. i'm saying, that's good, i guess i'm getting a pay freeze too. no, i was going to get my annual cost of living increase. we were going to be -- all i did was try to be prepared. and stood right here in washington at national airports. there were sign for reserve for member of congress. that's no way to greet the american people. it was a time. let me say this, two years later, democrats were thrown out of majority and grinch's revolution. you know many of the things they used against democrats were the

same things that i said were wrong. >> host: you get a larger mexican community that is growing. in your district office you get more question about immigration issues. about citizenship. >> guest: yes. >> host: this was something dear to my heart. i served as chief of citizens ship in the bush administration and helping citizens perspective citizens and going to naturalization ceremony ising? wonderful. you mentioned in the book how every american should go once to understand what is america is about. >> guest: right. >> host: you find your issue. you say this is what i'm going champion. it's all going to be about immigration. you start citizenship workshop how is that begin?

>> guest: in the beginning, as you you weren't there but the predecessor. when i got there i said hey, -- we expanded that as cross the country. many members of congress don't do that. 50,000 in my direct. i wanted to leave a legacy of power. of new people and power regardless of who the congressman is. i just think that to walk to a citizen smokelet say 150 people walk in and become suicide citizens. there are times when it's 80, 90, 100 different countries.

i saw the needs of my district. i responded and saw needed to fix the broken immigration system. so many people were trying to find legal ways to get the visa. legal way to get the son. and bring their parents and they were all shut down. said it's time to reform the system. that's what i committed and dedicated my life and the congress to. > host: we have a dysfunctional system. i've never been a fan of barack obama. when he got elected the first time, i was encouraged he had promised our latino community he was going to deal the immigration reform. said, great,let get done. a year passed and nothing

happened. we were very frustrated. you made it clear to the president you were. i remember our friend telling him the bid for reelection, you know, you made a promise and the prompts is a promise and you didn't meet the promise. how did you feel? >> fur of all, i sat down with president obama when he was a freshman senator. i remember in his office in december 2006 said going hawaii on vacation for christmas. t tradition. when i come back, i'm going decide whether or not i'm run for president of the united. aye thought you decided that. i didn't say it. but i thought it. you've decided that. he said will you support me? look, i could have -- think about it. i was the only latino he could goat endorse his campaign campaign. i was from chicago, i was well established across the country. i didn't ask him for an

ambassadorship. i didn't ask him to co-chair his campaign. i asked him for comprehensive immigration reform. he made a bond. people saying to take action. this is not -- deportation went up. and he told us that hef going prioritize deportations. that he was going -- the criminals.

fair enough. with you look at the numbers, over 50% of those deported have no criminal record. those were the struggles we had. look, and he has the -- to prioritize and he had promised it. then in the meeting he tells you talk about this. you approach him and said it was a good meeting. and he said why don't you get off my back? >> guest: that's what he said to peanut. president obama, many times, sees thing through a very personal lens. and doesn't see them from the public policy perspective. and he sees, as i write in the book, we got talk about it. he sees a criticism of him as a way of you fostering a greater reputation for yourself.

this is -- it's his expense that you have some -- i never saw it that way. i think -- and the book is a reflection of -- if you have power. if you have input, if you have the table and don't use that power and that input. if the greater sense is to waste it. , i mean, what do i have lose in i'm kid who slept on a cot in a hallway in an apartment in chicago. and got to sit down and negotiate comp hennive immigration reform. i said to myself wow, you have the president mad. i'm astonished given where my group where i began. i can say something that the president does ak nonand get him angry about. look, the most important thing. don't waste the opportunity to use your power and influence. don't waits it. i have never tried to waste it.

i've always tried to -- i hope one die to have a better relationship. i write in the book it's one thing i'm working on. i want to have a good relationship today. i think barack obama is a better president of the united states because of our criticism. for two years he said i don't have that power. in the end they used it. pressure him to the -- >> so called dreamers. the kids who came to the united states when they were minorrers. and he -- he said it publicly. many times. and start to go out there and the president can't do this. when he got tired of hanging around. he did it. and the supreme court validated that as well. >> guest: our communitied

embraced it. they were thousands and thousands of the first day signing up. there are a half million young people. when he ran for reelection. we've turned this around. at the end, and i hope we can get immigration reform out of congress. i'm a conservative. i've been critical of the republican party for not only the rhetoric but the positions they have taken on immigration which i think are anti-immigrant.

i'm still working hard to open up the party to go back to the principle on a -- based on compassion and free market. at the end i think if we get immigration reform it's going to be the good work of good democrats and good republicans in congress frankly. i have to say it because of barack obama. he didn't meet his promise. i think to the day, even after the election, after the election because at this point he's toxic. let us -- you may not help the prosexual appeals. i think at the end if we get immigration reform in the book it's not because the politician. it's because of the latino commune community. and the message, i think, is -- for republicans to get their act together on immigration but

democrats to keep the promise to deliver. >> guest: well, as you know we relayed in the book the met with the president and said we know you are going to las vegas. don't introduce a bill. we're working with republicans. we need to be republicans and democrats in the house and the senate. we don't need a bill from the white house to come on down to say this is what i want. we need to work it out. it's a very delicate time. he turned around and looked at us. i remember the anger in his face and said, are you kidding? after all of your complaining; right? after all of your demanding that i take more action now you're asking me not to introduce a bill. he was right. we asked him not to. to his credit, he didn't introduce a bill. he worked to formulate and to use his power and influence in the background. he's done that very effective. i remember the one word he used all right.

he said you weren't subtle about it either. saints interesting to be at the white house with the president saying you weren't sunl. -- subtle. deportations are not subtle either. it's devastating and crippling to families. maybe we haven't been subtle. we have been the fact i think he's a better president of the united states because the actions he took. he took them forcefully and can't deny latinos voted for him. in unprecedented number. once he took a step in the right direction. obviously -- we should have arizona as sb 1070. benefited be they? yes. did he continue to be benefited

by it that? no. i have an issue with barack obama. anti-immigration. there are 200 people there we're going work together to fix this country. in the end, i think barack obama's legacy is going to that he does sign a comprehensive immigration reform bill. [inaudible conversations] guess what happened? the congress of the quite is dysfunctional because everybody -- about transforming our system. everybody that is applauding it. they are ignoring it. when i got democratic caulk can cuss and say why are you with paul ryan and the en. he's a friend on the issue. he has received a lot of

criticism from the republican party for standing up. and they spent hundred of thousand of dollars from negative ads against him. how are we going get it done? i'm going say this. democrats have to understand because democrats negotiate. we were in the majority in 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010. we didn't pass it. we are to stop doing that. republicans, let me be clear, have to understand also they lost the referendum on this issue in november. they lost it. so you have the referendum, we're in the minority. let negotiate. let comprise. >> and -- [inaudible] it's important for everyone viewers to understand immigration reform is not dead. just because we are not a gang of eight.

we are meeting regularly. people are having conversations every day. that doesn't stand from my perspective. i believe in movement. i believe in power of people. and so this is an undenial quest for justice. you did delay. right. you can give detour. you cannot stop. ultimate -- the more you deny it the more energy there will be. >> we have a couple minute. we have -- all of your life and i wanted to ask you about puerto rico political. it would require ten shows. so i want to finish with something that you say in the last chapter of the book. it's a recent speech you gave at the end it's a story of my life. i'm puerto rico

perhaps you're fully american and puerto rican and no contradiction. many take that oath of -- they are fully american as well. >> i try to relate that. when i went puerto rico. especial lit state hooders. why are you getting involved in the issues. you're an american. and when i go there, i'm too american to be puerto rican. when i come here -- i was told many puerto ricans why continue you go back where you have came from? i've heard that. it's a single statement that too many puerto ricans have heard. too many have died and have been courageous and defended this nation. loved the united states of america. and yet portière begans are -- we have been citizens since 1917. it's going to be 100 years. they still tell us to go back

where we came from. people understand the only thing i can go back to is the corner of -- lincoln park. that's where i came from. congressman, a great book. i highly recommend it. let's don't work and make sure democrats and republicans get immigration reform this year. >> guest: thank you. that was "after words." it airs every weekend on booktv at 10:00 p.m. on saturday, 12:00 and 9:00 p.m. on sunday, and 12:00 a.m. on monday. you can also watch "after words" online. go booktv.org and click on after words in the booktv series and topics list on the upper right side of the page. all booktv is mark the 15*9 anniversary.

this weekend we look back at 2004, our seventh year on the air. this was the best seller as well as "my life." also on the list was: this is the forward to america the book obviously by thomas jefferson. please excuse the imitation. when they first approached me about penning the forward. i was surprised. it's not my -- but rather the declaration. forgive my conceit. if one is looking to introduce a grand -- my declarative are second to none. life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. going typical if you doubt the

claim. also some concern i have been dead for -- as it really been 178 years? my goodness. time flies when you are no longer consigned to the earthly vessel. thank they sent my some gally and i have to say, funny. not john win throp comparative treaty on the most undwriewcial which the fair of species counter part funny. but funny. that's some of the best sellers from 2004. visit our website to watch all the programs that aired on booktv over the past 15 years. all we ever had to go on what has been accepted by everybody is what manson himself wants to tell people. ill legitimate son of a teenage prostitute mother who cared so little about her child she once tried to sell him for a pitcher of beer.

how, as child, he was abused by the uncles she would have move in to their home one after another. how, when he was 9 or 10 she was so tired of having to even try to take care of him that she threw him in to the juvenile justice system where he suffered greatly and from there his life turned bad. he didn't know who his father was, he didn't think his mother knew who his father was. so he said he finally learned even as a child that the street was his father and prison was his mother. that's what everybody pretty much accepted. i decided to check it out. the first part let's look at the man's whole life. how did he get there. second question, where was he and what kind of thing were happening in our culture that made it possible for a charles manson to recruit a few dozen

followers who could these kinds of god awful things? again, his history doesn't happen in a vacuum. i'm kind of convinced if charles was paroled from prison in nebraska, and ended up in omaha instead of los angeles and tried these things. it would have been impaled on a pitch fork and stuck in a field as a scare you. he was in the the right place at the right 0 time. how did it happen? what i thought i did. you folks tonight, you have heard over and over during the years people's different versions of what happened on the night of august 9 and 10, 1969. ii would tell you there's new material in the book. in the course of interviewing quite a bit of people. including patricia who was involved in both nights and

provides a couple of sound byte had never gavin full account of it. she explained it all in such depth with such honesty, such clarity that she ended up answering the final couple of questions at the l.a. police department had about the murders all of these years. there's some new things. but most of all, if it's okay with you. i would like to talk very briefly about four parts of this book charles manson, his life and the world he grew up in. let begin with the childhood. we talk adjust minute ago about all the things manson claims. guess what? they're all lies. it's all documentable. i put 21,000 miles on my car in the last couple of years. i went every place he went. a lot of lies can be proven with simple visit to county court house.

charles manson was not ill legitimate. his mother, kathleen, when she was 15, was unhappy with her fundamentalist christian mother, nancy, who believes that girls shouldn't cut their hair, and do the terribly sinful thing that lead to all evil in the world. that, of course, is banning. we know kathleen's side of the story for the first time. charles manson's sister, nancy, never before interviewed anywhere -- and i found her and she told her mother's side of the story for the first time. gave me dates and places i could try look. here's what happened. this is what everybody in the family knew the real manson family. including charles himself. when she she's 15 kathleen living in kentucky crosses

bridge over the river to a town called irontown. she sneaks out and goes to the town. there's clubs where people can dance. and at one of the clubs, ritzy race is the name of it. she meets a man, exciting, older man. 29 years old. his name is cornel scott. it's not a military rank. he doesn't mind letting the 159-year-old girl think he's a war hero. of course, he actually works in a factory, is married, and has two children. that's the part he leaves out. not long later, kathleen becomes pregnant. she's 15. and she tells colonel scott. the colonel announces he's going to do the right thing for her but she's just been call away by

the army. he's going come back in just a couple of weeks and they'll cake of everything. and so kathleen goes to her mother says she's pregnant. the father is going marry her. you can imagine her mother's reaction that nancy really does love kathleen. she say, she'll stick with her. they'll get through this. it's not the child's fault. and colonel scott never comes back. and kathleen is furious. there's another fellow in kathleen's life who would like that get her attention, his name is william manson. he's a common laborer whose dream is to be a dry cleaner. and knowing kathleen is pregnant with another man's child. he marries her about five months before the birth. there was never any question that charles manson was an ill legitimate baby.

his birth certificate was filed a few day after -- a few weeks after his birth william manson listed as a fur. but the whole family and charles himself knew throughout that the real father of the colonel scott. no doubt whatsoever. the later rumors that mansons feared blacks but a he a black father, never, folks, never ever. manson and kathleen's marriage lasts a couple of years. he divorces her. she still a young girl, she's trying to run around and have a little fun. her son is never just left with strangers or offered for a pitcher of beer. instead she does what many young women that age do and sticks him with her mother or her sister, glenna and her husband and daughter. he's cared for always. kathleen and her brother luther, botch an attempted robbery.

they try to use a bottle and poke it to somebody's back saying it's a gun. the newspaper have the great time calling them names. and kathleen gets five years in prison in west virginia. luther gets 10. yes, that's on kathleen's record. never once anywhere before then or in the next 15 years was there any record she was arrested for prostitution, ever warned about being a prostitute. she bungled a crime, she never should have tried to commit it. charles was not a child of a a prostitute. not then, not ever. he goes to live in west virginia, a little factory town with his uncle bill, aunt glenna, and cousin jo ann who was three years older. i found jo ann. who has never talked before.

and if any of you gate chance to look. you'll see the photograph section include pictures from his baby pictures to his wedding album. those came from joann and nancy. they tell the real story. here is an interesting one joann told me about charlie. from the time he came to live with them five years old, he is scary. he's violent, he lies about everything. the first person he ever physically attacked was jo ann. he picked up a cycle in the backyard and tried to stab her. her parents stopped him. his explanation, she made me do it. it wasn't my fault. she is older than me. i was defending myself. in first grade, not only told to me by joann, but corroborated by other people who were in school with manson at the time. first grade, he organized some girls in the class to beat up a

boy he doesn't like. the principal comes looking for charlie. his explanation? the girls were doing what they wanted to do out of their own -- that's they wanted. you can't blame me. the same defense he uses all the years later with tate. you can watch this and other programs online at booktv.org. here is a look at some books being published this week.

..

i know most of you and i'm very glad to see you and i am here talking about my book, "why teach" and i'm going to talk about it about 25 minutes or so, i hope not much longer than that. then you can ask questions or whatever your in the mood for. we have c-span here. honored to have c-span here. if you ask a good question or any question at all you can tune in and seven days and see yourself on tv. what canb