understand what we can do and that is the most difficult part because we have been engaged in 18 months in what types of services we can offer to them and they obviously like various contractors, we wouldn't be here but we would not know how to proceed. we don't want uncertainty but it needs to be certain on one side or the other you know you need the services, you don't know when and don't know how. >> and we don't have a budget. haven't had a long-term budget. i will get senator sheen -- jeanne shaheen for question. >> we know how important home construction is to our economy. the realignment that is taking place in maryland is enormous. a number of construction jobs have taken place in the areas throughout the state of maryland and what we see very quickly is a drop in draw requests that are happening from the home builders

because they are not able to have the home construction and home sales taking place so clearly right away we are seeing in the past few weeks a drop in their draw requests, demand and housing. >> jeanne shaheen. >> i wanted to make the point for all of you who are involved with government contracting, the department of defense, that this is not the first hit the folks of gone. this comes on top of sequestration, those automatic cuts which already had a huge impact in the state of new hampshire. the defense spending accounts for 17,000 employees, $1 billion in payroll. economic activity. it is a huge impact and this is a double wendy. >> excellent point. i will end with two questions very briefly. the first to barun singh and if

anyone wants to john in i think lot of people besides thinking this is a pinprick, not really hurting anyone, it will go away shortly and will be back on the road which you spelled out in your comments very well. a lot of people are also saying shutting down the government is saving the taxpayer money. can you please explain from your perspective how that is absolutely, this is not saving the taxpayer any money, talking about a few of the businesses you know that are closed down, that if wet to operate could actually save the taxpayer money but they are being held back? >> sure. i think first off, if you are going to give back pay to all the people you are not letting work, that is not saving a lot of money but just making life harder. we work with building efficiency and we see a lot of folks who

might want to get loans to invest in improving their buildings won't get loans so easily. they will not want to think about it. there is an entire network of small businesses that want to help improve the efficiency in this country and if they can't rely on small businesses, if they can't revitalize this sector of the economy, we rely on growth as our mechanism for moving things along. we can't just say everything is ok as is particularly in these areas where our country needs improvement not just from the economic perspective but the environmental and social perspective. all we are doing is delaying our ability to implement change and improvements. we found that for folks we are talking to who would be interested in engaging otherwise with these activities but they might still be and we think they will be in the future but it is on hold for a while and we don't really know for how long. >> let me get you to answer that

and i will end with one question to keith griffall. >> one of the ways as you saw in my testimony we save the money every day we worked. we are in the business of deviations see. to give us faith to have this ripple effect, we have injured workers, injured civilian workers who are now working who we get calls on a daily basis, doctors will not see some because they don't trust that they are going to be paid by the federal government. as long as we can't implement our programs, we can't do what we do best and that is save money, save lives, save productivity and i was just handed a statistic that astounds me as far as the pinprick, that there was a study from the economic policy institute that said they are predicting 900,000 jobs a year would be lost due to sequestration and budget and

certainty if we can't turn this around. to me that is not a pin prick. thank you. >> let me put in a record and i will end with one question. the government shutdown could be expensive for taxpayers. it says the answer might not be what you expect. many experts estimate the shutdown will cost, not save, taxpayers, the bill could be steep, the last government shutdown in '95-'96 cost $1.4 billion, that is more than $2 billion in 2013. that is just a short-term shutdown. that is not the default on the good faith and credit of the united states, not the lack of long-term budget. it is a very serious situation and my final question because so much press has been focused on big cities, the beltway, etc.. the testimony that i read in preparation for this hearing tells a different story. not just the pain in big cities, suburbs but can you talk about

rural areas and what you are seeing from some of your folks and i think there was a reading testimony about a small little town in utah where they have only 500 people in the town and already lost 60% of their revenue, all town. >> that is an easy question to answer. if you look only at big cities you would see a lot of government losses and they are very real, a lot of people hurting but in the tourism industry, most of these beautiful, seen areas in america are in rural areas and the gateway cities to that national parks, national monuments and national recreation areas typically are built around these fantastic, scenic areas and there are many towns and i will talk about out west at this point but believe me they extend

across the country everywhere from michigan to north carolina and louisiana. but there are many small towns, very specifically hurt by this and the town you referred to, senator, was springdale, you talk. they are literally on the edge of the national park. their entire business, unless you are retired californian and moved there, the entrance to the national park and this national park was closed. i will make a quick footnote, if you are wondering why the taxpayers are suffering from this the taxpayers of utah through the good leadership of our governor, have now donated $1.7 million to the federal government to open these national park for ten days because it was recognized that many of these towns have no

other source of income and springdale, utah, outside the grand canyon, you don't go there unless you are going to the grand canyon and when they shut the road through there which they did for a couple days, we as a small tour company had to cancel four different tour programs for the best western, that money will never be recovered. nobody else was coming to take those rooms. the director of the travel council, marion delay, did her own informal survey, they did 500 businesses in utah that our tourism related and those were all small businesses and she estimated in the first weekend days of this shutdown they lost $10 million in revenue. these are small businesses. >> small businesses and small

towns, very focused. >> it goes on and on. there are plenty of them. >> our time has come to end. i appreciate it. senator, do you want to add something? >> i will pick up on what keith griffall said about zion national park, we have a business in new hampshire which is a syrup company, they have their products at the entrance to a mountainside on and they're very concerned about the lack of revenue because of the shutdown of the park. >> shutting down new hampshire in october, obviously a very difficult thing. >> as everybody has pointed out is not just the immediate effect. it is the ripple effect that goes across the economy that is at stake. >> your voices have been very important for the businesses you represent and very important

sector of our economy. thank you for giving your time and your effort and your thoughts. this record will remain open for two weeks. i hope the government will be open in two weeks to receive this testimony and our committee will work where we can. the meeting is adjourned. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> day 16 of the government shutdown in the nation's capital, the house and senate plan to work on the impasse. news reports indicating an

agreement may be close in the senate but it would have to get past the house. a number of sources are reporting house speaker john maynard has agreed to take up the senate plan and is still in the works and allow it to pass with democrat votes. the house right now in for general speeches and they will talk about the government shut down one legislator for gets underway at noon eastern. the senate is also in at noon. there will be more discussion of the debt ceiling. you can see the house live on c-span, the senate, live on c-span2. some news on the possible default less than 24 hours away. according to fox business fitch ratings placed the united states aaa credit rating on negative watch late yesterday following intense back and forth negotiations among policymakers on how to raise the nation's borrowing limit on the deadline. the statement the ratings company said the ratings of all outstanding u.s. debt securities are also on negative watch.

use of viewers are waiting and. rachel says i have paid into the government since i was 9 years old and this is what i get. ralph tweets raising the debt ceiling is like taxing our credit card and asking them to increase your credit limit. nonsense. j.p. weighs in, politicians are afraid to tackle waste and fraud because the tentacles might reach them personally. that is where the trillions of dollars are. we welcome your comments using the hash tag c-spancatch. join us for a news conference with the group fix the debt. speakers include former white house chief of staff and omb director leon panetta said to begin at 2:00 eastern at the national press club live on c-span3. ♪ >> we want to know how the government shutdown is affecting you. please send us. >> make your short video message about the shutdown and upload it from your mobile device at

south.com/c-span and see what others are shouting about. >> the latest on the debate in congress over plans to end the government shutdown and avert a potential default from this morning's washington journal. >> welcome back. we are joined by congressman scott rigell, republican congressman. thank you for joining us. >> guest: thank you for having me that. >> host: a lot of the braking action in the house. explain what happened with the republican proposal to reopen the government and raise the debt ceiling. >> guest: the house wasn't satisfied with what the senate appeared to be moving forward so the speaker and other leadership did their very best to craft an alternative that would pass the conference and yesterday morning at 9:00 we all got together like we always do. the speaker, the majority leader kind of walk us through the plan. i could sense very early on

based on the comments members were making because there is an opportunity at the end for members to go to a microphone and spend a minute or two explaining the position and was pretty clear that the plan was in trouble and i knew as we went through the rest of the day that the vote wasn't being called, so there were real issues. >> as a plan do you support it? >> guest: i support opening the government. i made that clear october 1st, the first day of the shutdown. it didn't seem to me the strategy we have laid out at that point was going to lead to a really good results so i am very committed to opening up the government. this is critical. i am equally committed to advancing a long-term solution to our budget crisis. i use the word sparingly but we do have a crisis in our nation's finances that merit the attention of every adult and all

of us coming to get there right away and advancing at least a marginal incremental solutions that gets us on the right track. >> host: explain the headlines looking at the action of the house last night, on the conservative groups like heritage action, freedom works came out and said vote no against this measure and the house rules committee ended, the measure was pulled. how much stock the but in those groups? is that what made the change? >> guest: based on what i knew about the two alternatives, i told leadership that i was not going to support it because it looked to me at the time the senate version ironically at least appeared to me based on what we knew at the time was actually a bit more conservative. i found out later heritage had come out with their assessment and we find ourselves in a tough spot here because i really believe the gerrymandered district are hurting our country and that comment is not directed

at my republican colleagues because any time the district has made a little easier for republican to win it has also made a little easier for the democrats in that state to win as well so if there is any hope here high don't think america is as divided as this beautiful capital is behind us. we have done this to ourselves as american people by allowing states legislatures to make it easier for incumbents to get reelected and so congress is really bifurcated into two hard camps and there are not that many swing districts or districts that reflect as i think of it the full soured goats of our country. >> host: we will take your calls. for republicans the numbers 202-585-388 one. democrats like him to 02-585-388 zero and for independents

202-585-3882. your take, there was an op-ed in the wall street journal today that spoke to what you spoke about in congress. they said the quality of thinking or lack thereof affected many gop votes in the beginning, to defund obamacare in congress and they picked means they couldn't sustain politically by pursuing a long government shutdown fracking to close the debt limit. president obama called their bluff. part blamed the destruction on the gop to tarnish the public image. now the most republicans will get out of this is lower public approval, chance to negotiate with mr. obama again before the next debt limit deadline and republicans can cut their costs by getting this over with and fight more intelligently another day. your thoughts? >> that largely reflects my views. i think of our country like a family from a financial

standpoint and for the family, the place you gather around a kitchen table for the country, this capital behind us and think of it this way. it illustrates my view on this and how we ought to get out of it. it is like the smith family. they make $4,000 a month but they are spending $5,000 per month meaning they are borrowing another thousand. lifestyle being propped up by the debt. mrs. smith wisely says we can't do this anymore. we have got to stop borrowing. that is the republican position. the democratic position, mr. smith is saying we can solve this overnight. we have got to borrow more so we preserve our credit rating. those statements are equally true at the moment and their intention, what really has to happen is each person on each side has to ask this question, what exactly are you going to cut? you have to have mr. smith, what

is your plan to reconcile this and i would say i really don't see that either side at this point has satisfactory answer to what the solution right now. and america first. and you can e-mail it to you. it is specific and reconciles at least marginally a good first step, revenue and spending. so every member of congress whether they were in the house or senate need to be asked this question. what specific plan do you have, your own or when you are supporting that tackles mandatory spending and tackles our budget deficit. >> host: let's take your calls, pablo, colorado on our line for

republicans. go ahead. >> caller: i keep hearing the fourteenth amendment mentioned. how does the fourteenth amendment to affect any power the president has? >> guest: i appreciate the question. good morning. the president's, president obama has made several decisions that i think are well outside the bounds of his constitutional authority and the changes he made to be unaffordable care act and by release see it as much is beyond the scope of his authority. the key is for him to stay in his constitutional lane and really respect the role that the house has here. senator reid and the president have been very dismissive of the proper role of the house of representatives and appropriating funds and shaping how much we spend on things for the president and also senator reid to hold the view expressed

early on in these negotiations. they weren't negotiations. the president issued an edict he was not going to negotiate. this is incompatible with representative republic we have here. communication and meaningful, principles compromise is like oil in a car engine. without that, we know what happens to a car engine. without meaningful compromise and principled compromise and good communication. >> host: a call from carolina, baltimore, on our line for democrats. >> caller: good morning, thanks for taking my call. two quick questions. first on the furloughed paula and offer the federal worker and what is your position as far as attaching the furlough to the budget balance? i don't think it should be used as pawns. we have been threatened with the furlough for the past week for years and is unfair to ask --

many of us -- i want to know your opinion on the shutdown. people talk about we want government cuts and spending cuts but the gentleman in south dakota was going through cattle buying, they need federal help and they should get it. i hear people talk about that until they need help. where would you specifically cut and how would that impact the people you want to cut? >> guest: appreciate your question. i originally worked at nasa and never saw anybody work harder than him. his dinner was often in the refrigerator or the oven because he was out there launching saturn rockets at cape kennedy. i have great respect for the federal worker. as a businessman turned public servant it makes no sense to me

the we furloughed hard-working folks like yourself and we passed legislation that will fully compensate you and all federal workers and we are not getting the value of your work and you would rather be back at work and your colleagues would as well. it is not a rational position to me and that is why on october 1st i said let's pass the clean c r because i knew we would bump into the debt limit and that is not the right place to have a showdown. you can talk about that if you like. with respect to the second question, the specific, when we say cut it is actually slowing down the rate of growth and mandatory spending and that is what the plan america first does and we emphasize america first because we are all in this together before we are democrats

or republicans. we are all in this together and the gridlock we are in and the inability to lead and any meaningful legislation is hurting all of us. is also where we live and ethnicity, gender, walk of life, we are all in this together and gridlock is hurting all of us so people began the to rich@house.gov -- scott rigell.house.gov. and importantly i would ask you to ask your member of congress and your two u.s. senators, what specific plan he or she has and are supporting, what you hear up here and in my two years and we 10 months up here, everybody typically has an answer, we ought to be addressing mandatory spending, we ought to be doing this, i am over is that.

we need to have specific, holes in your hand, the house or the senate, make them be counted one way or another. >> host: you were one of the earliest republican members coming out in support of a clean acl. what was the reaction from others in your caucus? >> guest: the reaction was not generally supportive although there are some who are like me. there are more of us than may be apparent by looking at the conference and more of us need to get together and actually try to shape the debate a bit more. i respect the rights of my colleagues, the 30 or so who have gotten so much attention. they are dear friends of mine. we had the over for dinner and debated things and talked about a things and we all share the same goal. i am very proud of our republican principles,

objectives, what we are trying to advance. i sought this office because we are a nation at risk, increasing risk because of our fiscal situation. where i disagree with some of my colleagues some of the time is on strategy. i say more accurately the tactical way that we go about this and the tactics we adopted on october 1st did not seem to me it was going to yield a healthy outcome for us and that is why i sent a tweet that morning in washington, interestingly the most effective way to get out news very quickly, a fatah clean see our was right and to separate mandatory spending from the debt

limit. no one thinks we should not be our bills. that is not responsible position in my view and i don't think it can be managed. some of my colleagues say it can be managed. i don't believe that but equally important, we addressed mandatory spending not next year, right now. i put a plan out there, it may not be the best plan. i am confidence in it but it is incumbent on every member to enter into every constituent in their district what is your plan, member of congress u.s. senator, specifically. none of this we ought to be looking at or we need to address mandatory spending, don't let them get away with that. is a need to be required at this hour at this time in our nation we can no longer have we ought to be, our caucus thought to be banned. >> host: at the 11th-hour how confident are you a deal will

emerge today, october 1, '64/7 to drop that deadline? >> host: john boehner is a good man and has an incredibly difficult job, principally because of the gerrymandering i mentioned earlier. had is not a disparaging comment on every member of congress. it is both parties and these are good the demand women who love their country no less than their colleagues on the other side of the aisle but the speaker is going to have a difficult decision. i don't know what that decision is going to look like but i knows this. i am absolutely confident of this. that the speaker will do whatever is required to preserve the credit rating of the united states of america and i will support him in an effort and every member of congress should because trusting -- trust in confidence and a currency is an

intangible feeling. once it is broken, once that trust is broken it is broken, we are teetering close to it for my comfort. it is in some ways irreparable. in some ways it cannot be restored. you can put together something that was broken in the china shop and glue it back together but it won't be the same. for that reason to me it is unacceptable to not pay our bills on time and equally unacceptable to kick the can down the road. that too is unacceptable and both of those things must be advanced at the same time. >> let's take more of your calls. in ohio on a line for independents. you are on washington journal. >> caller: i am concerned. i am a disabled person. iron $710 a month.

what am i supposed to do if this doesn't pass? how do i pay my bills? i don't pay my bills i will be homeless. .. >> guest: first, i'm sorry about your situation there, the amount of money that you mentioned that you live off of, is clearly very low. and you're not in a position to withstand not receiving the

payment. i've always believed the government does have a role in helping those who are truly needy. you are clearly in that situation, and i don't mind my taxes being taken out of my check to help folks like yourself. i'm doing everything i can to make sure that your check comes in on time. you know, the pain that you are feeling, the ramifications of the shutdown are very serious. there are people out of work. there are many people who are furloughed but still have a high confidence of being compensated ultimately. that is not true of our contract workers, for example. i know a business person right now who has three or $400,000 of legal fees. he has something before the sec. it's not moving at all. the application. in all likelihood he may lose completely lose that. the employment, the jobs, it's a terrible situation.

this is not without cost. let's give it for just a moment over to your comment with respect to foreign aid. look, i have strategically voted to reduce foreign aid. i don't believe that we are to be invested in the infrastructure in afghanistan. i've held this view for a long time. and my those reflective. it is equally true now that even if we cut that budget 100%, which i do not advocate far, that it would not in any significant meaningful way address our overall budget situation. every person i had the privilege to serve with, be very candid and transfer and forthright with you, and we've got to slow down the rate of growth of mandatory spending. this is true of every democrat and republican who is serving here, and it's true of the president. he must lead in this area. i haven't seen the leadership needed. we've got to come together, come together soon.

because i'm a businessperson. i know that we can't stay on this path. it's immoral not to do so because if we don't do this right we won't be able to help folks like yourself do indeed need help. so that's what i'm on a mission to do the right thing. thank you. >> host: next let's talk to max in south carolina on outline for republicans and for representatives got, i told agree with you that you got to let the c.r. the fiscal cliff is what i'm calling about. just commonsense approach, our tax revenues about to .170 trillion, our federal budget is about 3.8 trillion. our new debt is about 1.1.6 trillion. our national debt is 14.270.

now, let's talk about me at home and my credit card and let's remove eight zeros. my family income would be 217. money the family spent would be $38,200. new debt on credit card is $16,500. outstanding balance on credit card is $142,710. and i've got $38.50 from this budget at home. i really think if people don't get where we are, we are in trouble. let's just say i went out of town for a weekend. and i come home and sewage is backed up all the way to my ceiling. do i call a carpenter to lift the ceiling or do i call somebody to remove the sewage?

>> guest: that's a good analogy, max, you're spot on. the way that you took a bunch of zeroes off of these little numbers and just put it in an everyday term, you are very wise to do so. first, i respect you for knowing these basic numbers. our actual deficit isn't quite the delta that you mentioned there. it's about six and a 50 billion this year, which is way more than it can be. we need to be 3% of gdp or less. i'm actually a balanced budget guy, i think you know that, but anything over 3% really puts us in the danger zone with respect to overall spending. and our deficit. so i'm on a mission to address this, max, and i put together the america first plan, and it's something that you can holding your hand. it can be evaluated. it can be scored by cbo. it can be critiqued, and it will

be the democrats will find things to like and don't like. republicans will find things they like and don't like. the point is that has bipartisan appeal, and really that's the way we're going to get something done is if we find enough democrats in the house to get something over the curb, so to speak. the same in the senate to find republicans who will support something. gridlock would be all right if we were in a safe place and going and a safe direction. we are neither in a safe place nor are we going in a safe direction. so gridlock is unacceptable. so in my public service i am determined and have a resolve to find common ground. i'm convinced that it exists. sometimes our parties help us find it more often than not i think they can be an impediment. so got to put america first. we've got to make some tough

decisions, grab hold of what represents common ground and are into actual legislation. thank you. >> host: rose from florida. on our line for democrats. >> guest: good morning, rose. >> host: rose, are you with us? >> caller: i wished -- i wish your votes match your retort. too often republicans vote in line with lunatics and you're causing great harm to our nation. this suffering after is horrible. and you want to talk about fiscal responsibility, this shutdown is costing us hundreds of millions of dollars a day. it's just outrageous. it should stop it never should have been shut down. this is not an option. there is no opportunity to negotiate in good faith when you are using forced to get people to the table. they are just not compatible. it's just insane. and it's so shameful that i'm

almost speechless. and i think it's outrageous. and the reality is our fiscal cliff is today. you know, you want to talk about the proper role of the house, is to pay the bills. it to pay the bills you've already authorized. and you don't repeal laws, i mean, it's difficult to pass a law. it's difficult to repeal a law. there is a system for doing it, and the system has worked fine for hundreds of years. so why would you come in and change the rule the way you change the rules with common you know, house rule resolution 386 that actually guaranteed the shut down. that was a dirty trick. it's despicable, and i've never been so ashamed. when i watch a veteran standing in front of the memorial begging for congress to go back to work and to put them back to work. this is just absurd. i have never been so ashamed of

anyone, and there is no one, no one in your caucus that should be smiling about anything today. people are hurting. get back to work in two rows, you know, the intensity in your voice is understandable. this is not a good time in our country. it burns me you know, personally. i would ask a few questions. first, i would ask you, of course you aren't going to build and you but i understand this, but, you know, what specific plan does senator reid had that he could deny you today or is on his website to address our long-term budget situation? i don't know of one. rose, i really don't. nor do i know of the leadership required coming from the president. i haven't seen that, that leadership requires. so the four resolutions that we offered prior to october 1, each one was progressively less --

you know, it reflected a meaningful concession, and there are a series of concessions that were offered the whole time that senator reid was saying absolutely, we are not negotiating. so you know, something's got to give here, and you hold the view that it's all 140. i don't hold that view. i hold the view that we both need to sharply get better, both parties. this is how i see it. i really believe that the republican principles, the things that are captured in our core values, are really the best for our country that would lift up more americans. energy independence, growing our economy, getting people back to work. i'm an entrepreneur turned public servant. i really believe the ideas we're trying to advance our best for our country. but at the same time i will admit that our side needs to get better at this. that if we hold the view that it all just falls on one party, i

don't think that's going to lead to a solution. that's my view, but i think you for the call and i respect your view. >> host: we have a couple of e-mails in including one from indiana. john writes after a federal worker called into on c-span you said you were concerned about federal workers not being able to work but i didn't hear you express -- >> guest: john, you know come anytime i'm talking to one of the leaders of our parties, our party, i'm always mindful of the faces of the people in the district, and the men and women i know, for example, the chairman of the virginia beach republican party, he's not going to work because he's furlough.

he's a hard-working guy. he would rather be at work. my position is very clear on this. and it's not something that i just recently came to. it was right there on october the first. we need a clean c.r. that is, open the government. pay the bills of the united states of america with a continuing resolution, and use the next funding cycle, whenever that is, and it should be shorter rather than longer like december 15 come for example, that enough time for us to pass on appropriation bills, get off of this thing called a continuing resolution, which is hurting our economy and it's hurting our military. and i've been a strong advocate to get off of continuing resolution, to go to regular order, and that requires the house to agree to go to the budget conference with the senate.

i agree with my democratic colleagues when they say that we should get rid budget conference. i just go where the facts lead me. whether they align with our talking points or not, i'm going to advocate for what i think is best for our country, and especially what's best for our country long-term. and that means regular appropriations. it means working through this very difficult process of reconciling our budget, and doing that around a funding point, not around the debt limit. i don't think the debt limit is the proper place to hunkered down and get right here to the precipice of not being able to pay every single bill of the united states of america on time without delay. >> host: going out to a tweet. stop the politics. this current debate we it shouldn't be about someone retaining their speakership that it should be about getting

things done, getting the government stores back open. i want to ask you, people keep suggesting that house speaker john boehner speakership come his gun was on the line. he believed that to be the case no? >> guest: i don't see this as some defining moment in vote. now, every two years, and i suppose even sooner if that were to come up, and every two years when a new congress comes into session you go through that process and you say okay, among all of us, who is the best to rise up and served in that position, and other positions of leadership? and i think john would be the first to say he expects to be evaluated based on his performance. now, i don't see that this in and of itself is going to cause any severe disruption in the republican conference. that said, obviously we need to get better. senator reid we'd need a sharper improving. i think the senate would be far better off with another person

leading in the senate, one who actually was more predisposed and really who desires to enter into meaningful negotiations with the house. >> host: let's take more of your calls. ron in chicago on our line for independence. >> caller: good morning, mr. representative. i saw your list and have a list of my own i would like to give to you. >> guest: okay. >> caller: it's i think my list could help in solving this problem is. >> guest: i appreciate that. >> caller: number one, let's remove the cap on social security. we remove the cap on social security and social security will be funded for the rest of our lives. two, let's repeal all the bush tax cuts. and i bet we will not see millionaires and billionaires standing in food lines. three, you are against the affordable care act? let's have universal health care or everybody. you, me, veterans, retirees,

everybody. it's the cheapest way to go, the most beneficial way to go. number four, we need to put people back to work. let's pass, why don't we pass all of the presidents jobs bills that he is brought forth to put people back to work? let's repair our country. let's repair our infrastructure. and you know what? working people pay taxes house of representatives ron, let's give the congress and a little bit of time to respond. >> guest: thank you. i've heard you out here this morning, and i know that i'm kind of convincing -- condensing your views quickly but it seems like if we can tax a way out of this and it's a larger government approach. look, i am a republican who says that empirically looking at the data that revenues have gotten arise, not only through growth which is first and foremost, but also through reform of the tax code. this is the truth. we need to pay for the level of thing that we as republicans have authorized.

that said, we've got to rein in the rate of growth of mandatory spending. i didn't you mention that at all. that has to be done. that's just a mathematical imperative. i wish would more time to walk through it but that's got to be done. let me give you an example of where the administration is putting a full stop on jobs. i've introduced a bill, our two u.s. senators, senator warner and came, both democrats, support coastal virginia energy. that is opening up virginia's coast in an environmentally responsible way to create 18,000 good paying local jobs. there's only one organization that stopping that, that's the department of interior, which ultimately is led by the president. that's just the reality. look, we want to do it. the governor of virginia wants to do. the general a silly wants it. iran on it, and the federal government, the heavy hand of the federal government is

stopping job creation in virginia and virginia's second congressional dish it. i'm with you about growing the economy but i see it coming more through less responsibly, less burden of regulation, wisely limiting them, protecting our fiber, protecting health and safety let the american entrepreneur d. what he and she does best which is to create jobs. that's the secret and the way we need to get out of this. >> host: let's talk to larry in washington, d.c. on our line for republicans. >> caller: good morning. i've listened to a lot of these people talk an and a walking ard the nation's capital. a lot of people are delusional our false sense of security. the country, the default situation, the dollar is not backed i gold. for 42 years -- both sides responsibly or franklin roosevelt did for 12 months expended. he returned back. finally, nixon in 71.

it's asinine. if this is the best that harvard or yale are spammers or stanford with the members and various people in the senate and house, president so. former secretary state james baker stated that he and his lifetime would not see the dollar lose reserve currency. he's delusional. president obama stated himself that countries right now are prepared, china, russia, japan, germany to change their reserve currency for the us to another country because america has had that title or 68 years since the end of world war ii. >> host: thank you, larry. >> guest: larry, you are correct, our currency that you have in your wallet their is not backed by gold. what we've got and the reason we are the world's reserve currency is confidence in the american economy and confidence in our absolute commitment to pay debts

and obligations on time. and that's what our credit rating must be preserved, and we must circle the wagon and protected with everything we've got. you know, republicans and democrats. it is not wise to be where we are. we are doing damage even though we're not literally gone over the line, we are doing damage internationally to our country, to our children's future by not properly working through this. that's what i want to separate the debt limit from the funding of the government, and this idea, and this principle objective of mind which is to put america on a better financial track, which means getting hold of mandatory spending, getting the revenues right, and at historic levels that makes some sense. and you're right, because if we've reached that, there's nothing acting at the.

it's not like we've got all thae gold in fort leavenworth to back up the currency. point is well made. >> host: bipartisan cooperation is needed today to reopen government and meet our nation's financial obligations. house and senate must hashtag just vote. last night we saw the global credit rating agency fitch say it is put in a state on a negative rating watch. explain to people what that means. >> guest: this is an assessment by an outside organization of the candidates ability and really indeed our commitment to honor each obligation, both legal, that is like if there's a note like a bond and a lot of my colleagues were some of my colleagues are saying look, we can pay our bond. i don't doubt that. eight out of $10 of what we spend we've got cash for. it's that other 20% or so that we don't have cash for that has to be borrowed. so we have to pay both the legal

debts and also the other obligations, like the disability payments that was mentioned earlier by connie. or disability payments need to go to her on time. that's what's at risk here is if we don't pay our bills on time, what will happen is the credit rating will go down and our cost of borrowing will go up. and since we already owe about $17 trillion, each full point of interest that we have to pay that goes up is around $100 billion a year. so if interest rates go up and there at historic lows, they can only go one direction. sadly, it's up. but every full percentage point cut interest rates go up, that's $100 billion. it's not going for teachers salaries or infrastructure or roads and bridges, or to pay down the debt.

it's money that just evaporates in interest. we are a leveraged country and that's not good. i really see this as an extraordinary time. this is a to crisis in the country. i don't use that term lightly. i think it's overused, but we do have a budget crisis. i think we ought to be in section six days a week, and the president ought to say, stay in the oval office and meet with us six days in a week to get the job done. this is not a normal time. we've got to change the house calendar to reflect that. >> host: let's take a call from idaho on our line for democrats. >> caller: hello? trick you good morning. >> caller: good morning to you. hey, before i get to the main question i want to ask you, just wanted to say i remember when obama got elected, that it was just like we were headed for a deep depression, much like october 1929. and he did the best he could to

try to get everything done. but then we hear that on his inauguration night senator crapo and a bunch of other republicans vowed to say no to everything he was to do. now, that has not become obvious or it's not reported, but became very obvious as we went through trying to do like the t.a.r.p. and stuff like that. everybody saying no, no, no. and we had a bunch of republicans who i used to somewhat respect for, that was on that committee to do the health care. we took the heritage plan and brought it forth, and obama said okay. i was for a single-payer, but no, he gave in, left and right to all these guys. ask quick as he caved in, then they would say no.

>> host: let's make sure we give the congressman a chance to respond before he has to leave. >> guest: i always try to go with what's true and not with the talking point or what's true. i think it is true that the president largely at least initially followed the type of intervention approach that president bush was advocating fair, at least early on. i do believe that the stimulus bill went too far. the part that i would agree with at the time was the infrastructure part. i could have supported that, still do, about $130 billion in infrastructure. i see that as a long-term investment, our roads and our bridges and our tunnels. to me, that needs to be invested in because it helps productivity of businesses and keeps us competitive around the world. now, when i don't see in the president is the leadership needed to unlock our energy potential. i know firsthand that his

policies are actually holding back job creation in virginia. and i take no pleasure in saying that. i want the president to be successful in as much as it will help our overall country. i don't want to fight him the last three years, but to the extent he wants to grow government i will advocate against that. to the extent that he wants to wisely roll back barriers and impediments to job creation, i'll fully support that. and i know my colleagues will as well. so we've got to find a way to make this divided government work, and i'm going to work every day looking for common ground. i tell my friends on both sides of the aisle, civility is that we give. we need to tone down the rhetoric. we need to believe that our democratic colleagues are concerned about the debt. and i asked my democratic colleagues to stop caricaturing us as well under republicans. it's because we care about the poor that we're doing the things we're doing to raise of our

economy and to protect our environment. i just don't concede to my democratic friends that they care more than we do. i just don't concede that. but we got to find a way to make a divided government work. i'm on a mission to do that. >> host: pakistan, thank you so much for joining us. >> guest: thank you. appreciate the opportunity. >> once again it is day 16 of the government shutdown and it does appear the house and senate will be working together to resolve the issue. indications are now that final touches are being made to an agreement in the senate. this -- the ap is reporting a bipartisan deal is in hand to reopen government and to avoid a default. senator ayotte of new hampshire made her comments today as she walked into the meeting of senate republicans and leader mitch mcconnell's office. senator ayotte said the leaders would make a formal announcement the government would reopen through january 15 and treasure would be allowed to increase the nation part of sorting through february 7, which is a part of the framework of the deal.

that proposal would still have to get past the house. sources are indicating house speaker john boehner will bring the senate bill to the floor for debate seeking approval from republican members. house speaker ben is now being with republican leaders in his office at the house.gov in at 10 a.m. for general speeches. it is unclear at this point when the bill will come to the house floor for legislative work which gets underway at noon eastern. from the hill, speaker boehner has agreed to allow a vote in the house on the emerging senate debt ceiling do, this according to a senate source. >> we are reading your tweets on the shutdown. the tea party has done more damage to our democracy and cost

more money than the 9/11 terrorist. >> we welcome your comments using the #cspanchat. be sure to join us later today for a news conference for the group fix the debt. speakers include former white house include former white house chief of staff an o.b. director leon panetta. that is set to begin at 2 p.m. eastern live from the national press club and you can see on c-span3. ♪ >> we want another government shutdown is affecting you. please send us your video. >> make your message about the shutdown and uploaded from your mobile device. see what others are touting about. >> we have more now on the

impasse over the government shutdown as we welcomed a democrat member of congress to this morning's "washington journal." >> host: we are joined by congressman tim ryan of ohio. thank you for joining us. want to get your take on what happened last night in the house, speaker john mayer pulling his proposal that would've reopened the government, raise the dead thing to what is your take? >> guest: i think it's following the same storyline we been giving with for the last nine or 10 months. since really since the tea party came to washington, d.c. as you have a very, very small, yet big enough group in the house republican caucus that are controlling the agenda down there. i think that's what you saw last night to give all these facts -- factions within the public and come for us. he had extreme folks who still want to talk about defining the affordable care act or delaying the affordable care act, something with the a form of

direct to appease the extreme right wing, the heritage foundation and those groups. you have other more moderate folks like the gentleman from virginia who was on here before i think our honest brokers and willing to sit down and recognize that these fights should have been in regular order. i think what we saw last night really is just a culmination of what's been happening in washington, really for a few years now. since the 2010th election. but more specifically in the last eight or nine months. >> host: what does this say to you about the character of the republican caucus and what we can expect to see in future fights? >> guest: probably more of the same. we are allowed to have these fights. here's the thing. this is what we do. democracy is a messy, ugly process. we have fights all the time. there's a two-party system in which we engage in these discussions. it's fine. it is what it is and that's what we do. but we traditionally do that through regular order. now we have a house that's

republican, senate democratic, president, just reelected democrat. please sit down and find common ground. you find areas that you can work on, transportation, immigration. what are the issues? we can have these big budget fights and you're going, the republicans are going to get a third to half of what they want the democrats will get a third to half of what they want. we find common ground, we move forward. but this recklessness that's happening now i think is endangering them democracy that we have. it's clearly shaking the market as we saw with stitches rating and all of that. it's starting to affect what's happening in our economy. >> host: we saw talk starting again in the senate between mitch mcconnell, harry reid. that's the house having an option at this point to afford a default other than to accept whatever deal is in the senate today? >> guest: i think speaker boehner has got to bring the senate version, that would be a

compromise between republicans and democrats to the floor. and i will and have and will continue to urge the speaker to do that. and i think there is a silent majority within his own conference, that if he steps up and says, we've tried to go to the tea party route, with the obstruction and all of the denying of what can happen if we default -- sorry, fellas, we've got to go in another direction. i think there is a silent majority within his caucus that would support him. and hopefully, if you can take a strong enough stand and bring this to the floor, that we can then have a series of compromise bills on immigration, on transportation, that we can begin to deal with within the political system that the founding fathers established for as. >> host: want to make sure we could get calls.

yesterday we heard house speaker john boehner talk and he said that default is not his objective but let's listen to him and i want to get your response. >> listen, i have made clear for months and months that the idea of default is wrong. we shouldn't be anywhere close to it. [inaudible] >> this plan that would make changes to the senate bill? >> we are talking with our members on both sides of the aisle to try to find a way to move forward today. thanks. >> host: congressman, your take? >> guest: good. i hope he can bring something to the floor. i think it's a center for us to do that today. i don't think we need to get into past close of business today. i think we need to have something done, and if they can't figure out what that's going to be announced, then

bring a claim containing resolution up that would fund the government and bring an extension of the debt ceiling immediately. >> host: let's take your calls starting with kevin in florida on our line for republicans. go ahead? >> guest: good morning and -- >> caller >> caller: thank you for taken michael. i will keep this short. thank you for answer my questions. as you know, when the direct deposit hit for the first, a lot of people will not be getting paychecks. what are your thoughts on the congress and the senate, should have to disclose whether they get their paychecks are not? when the direct deposit hits, will you be taking your paycheck? knowing millions of americans will not be getting a paycheck. will you be getting paid, or will you be donating yours to charity? and should be never have to disclose whether they can buy food, they can pay their rent, when they get home at night and

sit around the table and say there's nothing wrong, what about the average american? what would you be doing? >> guest: i have already contacted the appropriate people and the house of representatives that i will not accept my paycheck until every one else gets theirs. and i think it's only fair for members of congress and in my particular case, to stand in solidarity with others. i have already contacted the appropriate people in the house administration and let them know that i won't be accepting mine and to everyone else gets theirs. >> host: take a call now from dan in tennessee on our line for immigrants. >> caller: high, congressman. my question is, we can't have progress in america until we first acknowledge reality. with that in mind, given that building seven was in freefall for over one of people nfl on 9/11 which is only possible if preplanned explosives were used, would you stand by the thousands of architects indicators and

demand an investigation into the destruction traffic i'm not going to get into this kind of conspiracy theories. i think those kinds of things just open up some old wounds for many people have had to deal with that. i think it is clear what happened on nine 9/11, and i think there's enough business that we need to do in the nation's capital to not get engaged in these conspiracy theories that quite frankly our destruction. we have so many issues to deal with in the united states today, the level of any point that we have today, investments we need to make into the future. and i think we've got to get away from these sites shows. not just on 9/11 issue but we have a leader of a prominent conservative group at the world war ii memorial, and tells the president to put down his koran. if these muslim, fine. that's great but he's been physically said he is not supposed to have these kind of immature, juvenile discussions.

i think distract us from the real issues of the day. when you look at what's happening with the debt ceiling, you look at what they're saying in china, look at what they're saying in europe, you look at what they're saying in mexico. it's a joke. it has turned into an absolute joke. what kind of country are we going to be? are we going to be the country that leads the world, let's up the world, shrinks inequality, closes the gap between the rich and the poor, invest in renewable energies, addresses climate change? we are getting so distracted now with these sites shows that we are not the country we're supposed to be right now. >> host: let's go to kenny in indiana on our line for independence. >> caller: good morning. i'm 70, retired from a company out of indianapolis, very proud member of the va uaw. but i just realized my wife and

i have an appointment today with our health care plan that this company is supplying us. and i'm very fortunate for that. but my question is, i just found out that according to the brochure that i got that any insurance premiums that my company is paying for me, the irs has passed a law that i have to pay taxes on those premiums. and i don't know that everybody knows that, but that will cause my taxes to go up every year. because i have to show that as an income. do you know anything of that spee-3 something we're working on right now, a ghost of a broader discussion, you brought up uaw but have to brag a little bit that the chevy cruz is made in youngstown, lordstown ohio, in my congressional district. a lot of great uaw members who have got this car selling like hotcakes around the world. so thank you for bringing that

the. second, this speaks to the broader question. no one is saying that the affordable care act is perfect. we are saying that the our adjustments that need to be made along the way. we need to sit down in a constructive way, and the gentleman just brought up one of those issues that we need to talk about and when you do have a discussion about in a bipartisan way and not get locked into throw the thing out, or leave it in as it is. we've got to figure how to work this thing day by day. week by week, year by year, continue to improve it with you look at sources could our medicare or any major piece of legislation, take time to work through things. >> host: an e-mail that we got from james in fort worth. the true problem with our economy is not federal spending. it is the concentration of wealth

>> host: your response transferred i would agree with a lot of what he said. i think that's a problem, we have levels in inequality now that go back to great depression era levels. and we need to close the gap and that means we do need a strong work force. we do need strong unions. we do need a working middle class. this all comes down to the fact that if the average person has some money in the pocket to have health care, to have a pension, to be able to go on a vacation, to be able to buy a house and the car and send the kids to school, america then works. we've gotten for the last 30 years and quite frankly have done enough to change it, with rebalancing the tax code. making investments back into the middle class. look at whether it was events

are nasa with the space race, those investments that we made as a country, transportation, roads and bridges, what it did for aerospace, what they did for telecommunications, the technologies that spun out of those investments helped create engineers and scientists. and then average folks could go manufacture these things. i think we need to get back to a policy where we are investing, and i think one of the main areas now is renewable energy. we need to make those solar panels in the united states. we need to make those windmills in the united states. we need to retrofit our cars and our transportation system so that they can run on natural gas, for example. these are the investments that the government needs to make. no one company is going to make those. if we want a strong middle class we've got to get back to a country that makes investment together, collectively that no one company is going to make on their own. until we get back to that day we

will continue to have stagnation. we will continue to bleed manufacturing and will continue to have the levels of inequality that the gentleman mentioned. >> host: earlier reports about the deal has been worked out in the senate suggest it's not going to do anything to avert the 2014 sequestered. you have been outspoken about these impacts as a question. what is your take? how do you fix these cuts? >> guest: again, sit down and find common ground. use some common sense to find out where we need to be. where we can find agreement. i think if we do that i think there's a lot of members who have military bases in the district, for example, or a lot of research is done at universities in their districts, have high concentration or maybe head start program, all of these things that are effective. we need to make sure that they all are willing to sit down and compromised. we've got to get -- a lot of this is like if president obama

says the sky is blue, the tea party says it's green. then president obama gets blamed for everything. the cleveland browns loss last week and there must be president obama's laws. there's a light out in my downtown, whatever city got a must be president obama's fall. sit down and work within. this is why i'm optimistic about john boehner is that john boehner was one of the chief architects of no child left behind it and granted that has fall but he sat down with a democrat. he set down with ted kennedy and made this happen. so i think speaker boehner's instinct is to reach across the aisle and try to find some common ground. house of representatives take marthmore of your calls talkingh representative tim ryan of ohio. mike, republican, go ahead therefore hello, mr. ryan. >> guest: hi, mike. >> caller: i've been a republican longtime. i consider myself reasonable,

and i've got to tell you i'm not a republican anymore. i think this crisis is nonsense. i've watched c-span at of actually watched patty murray in the senate and house members practically begging the republicans to go to conference. now, i don't know, they seem to not want to go to conference all these times as i've watched it and billy thing i can think is that maybe they want to push us to a crisis point so that they can cut entitlements to make it, with cutting those loopholes. simpson-bowles, everybody smart things you have to do both to get out of this mess. and i tell you, when it goes to conference, may be a part of it is that mr. ryan those that -- [inaudible] they didn't want to go to conference because they didn't want to spend their budget, the paul ryan budget uses -- the

affordable care act has any. so they have to defend, they have to defend their own budget using the numbers, the savings from the affordable care act. >> host: wheel nut congressman ryan go ahead and respond. >> guest: i would like all of the republican callers to be in line. i appreciated. i think what mike is represented there is someone who is a republican but has been paying attention to what's been going on. and he recognizes that the democrats have tried to go to conference 18 times i think the senate has tried to go with the republicans. i think is paid attention to the tea party faction that is controlling the republicans. i think mike represents a lot of the traditional in places like ohio, traditional, moderate to conservative center of right republicans. who are for limited government but not for abolishing

government. what's happened in ohio is because of redistricting, we had president obama won ohio, sherrod brown one ohio. a democrat congressional candidate won almost 1 million more votes than republican congressional candidate, but it's 12-4 republicans versus democrats in the congressional delegation because of redistricting. so those republicans are forced to appeal to a very, very conservative base. and i think moderates and independents like mike are really left out to dry because they want to solve the problem and the traditional pragmatist that come out of ohio unlike john boehner, are now forced to be extreme. we're getting extreme government and it's not good for anybody. it's especially bad for the country. >> host: are you aptly optimistic that we will see an agreement today, kevin we are hours away from october 17, the self-imposed deadline?

>> guest: i am cautiously optimistic, i am, that at the end of the day when we are faced with defaulting and sending a signal to the entire world confirming what fitch said about a possible lowering of our rating, that at the end of the day we will come together. and i think the next question is, what happens to speaker boehner in that process? i think if he has the courage to do this i think it will strengthen the silent majority within his caucus. and that we can then maybe later groundwork for more compromise legislation, more common ground legislation which we can all find agreement on. >> host: let's take another one of your calls. randy from alabama on the line for democrats. randy, are you with us? >> caller: yes, i am.

>> host: you have a question? >> caller: yes, i do. i think they ought to let this country go into depression, shut it down. it will help the economy when it starts back up. and get all these republicans out of office. they don't want to help president obama. if it was george bush in there, they would have done jumped. i think we need to get a woman in office, and i voted for hillary, and i sure will vote for her again because i made more money under bill clinton and 12 years than i did reagan, bush senior or bush junior. and i think this country needs to be taught a lesson and go under depression for about a week, and everybody will appreciate what they do. i am on disability now after driving a truck or 22 years.

and i hope every truck driver out their calls, bothers you all to shut it down. thank you. >> guest: well, i'm not going to go there. house of representatives not 2016 quite yet. >> guest: i visit i would love hillary, i hope she runs, would be out front carrying the flag but i think going to a point where we want a depression i think is not something we should intentionally ask for. i do think he brings up the point of, he did very well under president clinton. and i think there are a lot of americans who did in that balanced way. remember, it was the democratic budget. many people lost their seats in 1994 because of the clinton budget. it ended up bouncing the budget. we ended up in surplus. we also had, believe it or not, speaker gingrich at that point was a more pragmatic politician. made investments in the

children's health care. we made investments in immunization. we made investment in nih and research. a lot of things they found common ground after the big blog was the government shutdown. so i think you look at the leadership that president clinton provided and it was amazing at what happened to the country. and it's hard really to grasp a real positive agenda item that the republicans have dealt with in the last, you know, 10 years or so. plus, the tax cuts led to the budget problems that we are having now, the wars, both unpaid for, a prescription drug bill and paid for without the ability to negotiate down the prices. really looking back since president bush came in, what positive thing has happened? we saw the deregulation lead to the collapse of the financial industry and we had to do the bailout there. been the rise of the tea party in 2010, extremely constructive

force in the politics today, even republicans are saying that, not just me. we are getting calls on a republican lines of republicans saying that. so i think that so far the crack has come for the republican party at this point. >> host: let's go to doors in lexington massachusetts on our line for independence. >> caller: hello? >> host: good morning, dorothy. >> caller: mike honda, i'm a 75 year old senior and i remember world war ii. and during world war ii we took on a huge amount of debt has we were involved with helping out europe with lend lease and after the war the marshall plan where we spent money to give europe fed. and the g.i. bill which helped the soldiers who came home from the war to get college education and get started on their careers.

now, my understanding is that right now we are taxing somewhere around 17% of gdp instead of the average of 20% of gdp. and it seems to me that at that time, and the upper income people were paying much higher taxes than they are today. in fact, it's almost obscene to somebody who makes money like warren buffett is only paying out about 15% when his secretary is probably paying at 25 or 30%, as are many other middle income americans. i think that people making more than $100,000 a year ought to be paying more. not just a really high income people but the people making two, 300,000 ought to be anymore as well. the idea of cutting entitlements for social security recipients is crazy, because the average social security recipient makes about 22000 total income a year.

i wish i'd been able to make this comment when the republican representative was out there but i am just wondering what your take is on this, this whole idea. >> guest: i agree. i think you look at the levels of inequality in our society today, recognizing really that wwe're all in this together, and the extreme wealth, and we're not even come in some instances talking about the top 1%. i think in some instances we are talking about 0.1% of the wealthiest people who are making gobs and gobs of money, and recognizing we have very high levels of inequality, and that ultimately if we're going to have a driving -- thriving, diverse society that we need to make those investments to lift people up. and i think it's essential that we do that. at the same time as a government official i think it's important that we lay out an agenda for

those people who we are going to ask to pay more and give them some confidence that we are going to reform some of these programs. and i'm not saying take it out of the middle class. but what i am saying is on health care, for example, if we move to prevention, wellness, diet, nutrition, food, all of these things that are causing a lot of the diseases like diabetes and prediabetes, if we start showing people that we are going to move in a direction that will help people stay healthy, and we're going to start producing more food than is healthy rather than a lot of the processed food that people are eating. this diabetes epidemic is a ticking time bomb for health care system. my point is that it we start showing ways that we're going to reduce health care costs within the affordable care act, but in addition to and move in this direction of prevention and wellness and immigrant health and these kinds of things, i

think we have a better case to go to people and saying, hey, we need help to intimate these programs, transportation is another. research into renewable energy is another. but we need a layout that agenda as well as ask the wealthiest among us today. much is given, much is required. there's a lot of infrastructure that goes into place to help us with the global economy. billions of dollars spent on infrastructure, airports, seaports, billions of dollars spent for the united states navy harding the sea lanes so that we can have a shipment of products around the globe. a stabilized system for health care for our seniors and the poorest among us. all of these things are is someg we do collectively, but we can ask for more but at the same time i think we need to also show a reform agenda that is going to shift and transform our society in the direction of more

health, more wellness, more investment into the middle-class. >> host: a headline in today's financial times. a contingency plan that dare not be under. they make this point, for all the articles about invoking the 14th commitment -- what should the president do tragedy i think he would then have quote unquote emergency powers to be able to stabilize the situation because we will be an absolute freefall. our economy would end up over time going into a freefall. credit would be locked up, interest rates would go up. this would have a dramatic effect in our economy, but also for our national security because he would destabilize the globe and put american power in a really bad position. so i would encourage at that

point for the president to say he can't do it now but i was afterwards that he would have the ability to utilize the 14th amendment. >> host: necks on the line, teresa in manchester pennsylvania. >> caller: hello? >> host: good morning. >> caller: i just want to talk about the tea party a little bit. we've been called terrorist and all kinds of things. they respect the constitution, and our government. we want them to respect our rights as people to be able to live without paying every penny we make out of taxes. and they act like the tea party congressmecongressmen are evil. they are doing what their constituents asked them to go

do. and you have to respect that that is our will also pick the same as it is with democrats and republicans. this health care thing is going to bankrupt us. us poor people out here cannot afford to buy groceries and gas. and you want to add more taxes on hearing aids and all of this stuff. i don't know where they think that they can keep pulling this money out of people. these companies are not giving us raises anymore. we are just living day to day waiting for these people to realize that they hit the limit. ..

because the constitution said that the process, a legislative process on how to govern the country and they are basically taking that process, the funding of the government, addressing, past expenditures. this was out of the united states constitutions of the behavior of the tea party is actually thumbing their nose at the constitution of the united states and the very process the

founding fathers set up for us to execute to govern ourselves to be self-governing country. and a lot of tea party folks talk about freedom and liberty. i would say freedom to be healthy. how free are you if you are sick, if you have a young child that has cancer and you have hit your lifetime limit on your insurance policy and in six months or a year you can't get health coverage for your child how free are you if you are sick and can't go to work but there are treatments out there for you that can help make you better? you are not free at all so we need to redefine what it means to be freed. in my estimation to be free in america means to have access to affordable health care. we are not saying everybody should have gold-plated health care but access to preventative measures. and by the way, the affordable care act is paid for. we've got the savings out of the

medicare program and other cuts and we also did ask others to pay more in taxes that was paid for. the congressional budget office says in the next couple decades we will save a trillion dollars to the deficit. you can't address the long-term deficit to the united states without addressing health care costs in the united states. and that means addressing the health insurance program and the affordable care act does that by giving everybody so they don't show up in an emergency room two weeks after they got sick, much sicker than they would have been, costing everybody in the health care system more money because they could have solved a $10,000, what became a 10,000-dollar problem may be with a 20 dollar prescription if they had cared. that's how we address the deficit. so the affordable care act is going to do that and the congressional budget office said it was going to do that and a nonpartisan entity that evaluates what we are giving and taking into consideration the prevention and wellness act that is going to save us more money so we will have a few hiccups as

we go through the implementation of the system. but ultimately it is going to save us money in the long run and i would ask those in the tea party to respect the constitution and go through the political process. one last comment, me and many others were against the war and iraq. it didn't want it from the very beginning and we were frustrated that we went. and we found out on false pretenses at one point. but the bottom line is democrats, minority leader pelosi at that point, we went out and took it to the american people in 2003, 2004, 2005 and then in 2006 we won the house and the senate back. we tried to unwind the war then and we couldn't do it. we won it in 2008 and began to wind down the war in iraq. we went through the political process. we didn't put a gun to president bush's head and say we are going to shut down the government if you don't and the war and iraq. we have to get back to that

regular order. have our fight and disagreement. set it up. it's so bad it will fail in your estimation. and the republicans will win the senate backed and then you can be found it and do whatever you want. you will be in charge. but go through the political process. i respect very much your opinions and abilities to speak them in a free republic like we have here, but you've got to work through the political process and that's not what's happening and now we have hostage-taking. >> host: wall street journal getting a lot of attention. senator john mccain says must read the debt announcement it's time to wrap up the political heirs. and in that op-ed writers argue that the millo drama of will on with predictable end with both sides now over increasingly small differences. congressman, house mall is the goal between republicans and democrats as the editorial

suggests? >> guest: i think they are small between the democrats and the senate republicans and many of the house republicans. but there are, again, a group in the house that we are very far from. they still are talking about the funding the affordable care act. and that's why you see john mccain, lindsey graham, a lot of the moderates in the party saying this has gotten out of control. basically what that editorial was saying cut our losses. we should have never gone down this road. grover norquist, karl rove, these guys saying ted cruce pushed the republicans in front of a bus and then washed away -- walked away. fer folks watching at home this isn't tim ryan saying this, it is all of these major republican figures that at this point were considered tea party activists as well and they are the ones saying it. so they are pretty isolated

right now when the political system. >> host: next to john in delaware on the line for democrats. >> caller: good morning. >> guest: good morning. >> caller: thanks for taking my call. i wasn't good at math but if we don't take on more of this debt, why is it the world economy will go into turmoil? we just need to tighten our belts. as far as affordable care, why hasn't a law then passed as to what doctors and hospitals can pay, i mean charge. first we were held hostage by the banking industry and now we will be held hostage by the health care industry. another thing i have to say and then i will be done. all this craziness in washington said all the representatives, congressmen, everything back to their home states and tell them go back to your home state, clean up your act, everything. find out where the fraud is and do it like your job depends on

it because it does. and if you get let go, you will lose everything. number two, they should be able to do this from their state offices. it's a thing called technology and with cams. let them do it that way. don't go into washington and take away all their perks. thank you. have a nice day. >> guest: part of the problem is members of congress aren't together enough. i hesitate to say that because we've been together the last few weeks in great stretches and i know that puts a lot of strain on a lot of families to be here in those extended periods of time, but their needs to be more relationships between the democrats and the republicans and more time together, not more time apart in finding those areas of common ground, building those personal relationships that i think are necessary to read and the new book talking

about the relationship that president reagan had with speaker o'neill. those were personal relationships. you had your fights during the day and night you could be friends and hang out and socialize and have dinner together. i think that ultimately would be a good thing. it works in the private sector. it should also work in government as well. >> host: another call in south carolina on the line for independent. >> caller: hello. >> host: good morning. >> caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. my concerns are, you know, we talked about the economy and not bouncing back. well when everything keeps going up, goes up, goes up, let's lower the prices. people will spend more money and the economy will turn itself around. we don't have the government to

create jobs for us to the weekend at our own jobs that. i went to wal-mart to give you an example i went to wal-mart couple weeks ago. in 2008i could go to wal-mart and spend $150 on groceries. now i go to wal-mart a couple weeks ago and by 38 items and it cost me $91. what's wrong with that? that's agreed. these corporate companies. i have a person i asked about a gallon of milk and it costs more than a gallon of gas. a gallon of milk is more than a gallon of gas. we pay about $3.5 for gas right now. it's crazy that all these things go up. all the things we consume and body, cars and everything. and it's because of greed. if they stop being so greedy, these corporate companies -- that is what -- >> host: let's give him time to respond. go ahead. >> guest: we can't really fiddle away with the free

market. there is supply and demand, and that is reflected in the stores that we shop whether it is the price of a car or price of a gallon of milk that's all reflected in how much supply versus how much people want to go out and buy it and i don't think that we should fiddle with the free-market. i think we have to knock off the rough edges of the free market like in the instance of health care or in the food and drug administration and these kind of things. we have to regulate the banking industry for example with the most important thing we can do is pass a jobs program here in the united states and this isn't the government hiring anybody. this is roads and bridges, airports making investments back into the united states. we are going to hire people that work in the building and construction trade for example that has an unnecessarily high unemployment rate. those folks to to work doing things like building bridges that will lead it more expensive

overtime. and if we build those now we are going to get a fourth multiplier. we are going to put people back to work, private companies are going to high year these folks and make money. public projects are going to get done and what they are going to get done even if we have to borrow some money at a very low interest rate and those people will go back to work and their incomes will go up and become taxpayers and we can jump-start ourselves all of this liquidity that we seem to be in. that is the way that we move forward. make investments back into the united states. we've been trying to do it with the fed. we need fiscal policies to make those investments. and i know a lot of people are going to scream about the deficit. but when you are in this problem, this liquidity here in the short term we need to make those investments to jump-start our way out of it. it is a to fer because we are doing projects that need them any way. >> host: thank you for joining us. >> as the senate is about to

begin, there are reports that senate leaders will shortly be announcing a proposal to end the government shut down after yesterday's attempt by house republicans failed. numerous sources saying if the senate bill will be sent to the house where speaker john boehner will bring it up for consideration sometime today. of course the deadline on the debt ceiling is less than a day away and failure to increase the debt limit could result in a nation desalting on its bills. again, finishing touches being put on the crafted bill to end the government shut down. that measure will go to the house sometime today for votes. these as yet it press reported earlier that senator kelly aytotte announced a deal had been reached as she walked into a meeting of republicans and senator mitch mcconnell's office. the basics are that the government would reopen through january 15th and the treasury would be allowed to increase the nation's borrowing authority through february 7th. some news concerning the fall. senator aytotte of course was part of announcing the deal today. she urged her gop colleagues

senator ted cruce to allow a senate budget deal to hit the floor without delay. ayotte said the procedural tactics would have little points. it's up to him, she said on cnn. today i would hope that he would not delay the vote. the senate obviously in terms of certain time frames the senators can cause huge turn to run out the clock. what was he trying to gain at this point? and we are reading your tweets. the senate to deal finalized can the deal passed the house or will the tea party block it? if john boehner brings the senate bill for the vote, they will save the day and help pass it with the same republican message -- members. we welcome your comments, thoughts using the hash tag #c-spanchat. join us later today for a news

conference with the campaign to fix the debt. speakers include white house chief of staff and director leon panetta said to begin at 2 p.m. eastern at the national press club lie of on c-span3 we want to know how the government shutdown is affecting you. please. >> make a short video message about the shutdown and upload from your mobile device. see what others are touting about. >> the senate again gaveling in at noon eastern. we will have live coverage on c-span2. this morning on washington journal, cnn maria joined us to offer her take on how wall street is doing that the debate in washington over the government shut down and the debt ceiling. >> host: welcome back. we are joined by cnbc maria

bartiroma. we want to start by talking about the big deadline we hear about resolving the budget impact on the debt ceiling. october 17th. that's tomorrow. but what does it mean? what happens then? >> guest: that is a great question because there is a lot of misinformation out there. tomorrow is the day of the treasury secretary jack lew said the government would run out of money and be unable to pay its bills. the dead lines are a lot later than that. for example there's an interest payment due that is small and manageable about $6 billion to october 31st. then on november 1st, the government has long debt obligations. in other words it has to pay social security checks, a government employee salaries. that's being looked at. but the big interest payment is on november 15th. and that's more than $30 billion of interest payments. so even though tomorrow is the deadline that many people are

talking about, actually we do have a little more wiggle room beyond tomorrow and it really is the end of the month october 31st at $5.9 billion debt payment. november 1st with the non-debt obligations paying the government workers, social security payouts and of course the bigger one has mentioned november 15th. very few people are expecting this to go past november 1st into really threatening that important debt payment which is $31 billion on november 15th. so that is really the layout for the next couple of weeks. but of course during the treasury secretary say the u.s. is running out of money to mauro should be enough to fire to get the sides together to make a plan so that we are not dealing in the 11th hour on october 31st or november 1st or november 15th. >> host: some of the chaos some people are suggesting if there's not a deal made today. >> guest: that's right. the chaos has to do with the

reaction from the market because let's say the perception out there is that the u.s. is running out of money to mauro, and there is a perception because jack lew said it and that's what people are expecting. october 17th. so, the market's had a disruption and we see a dislocation and the stock fell off and the bond prices plunged and interest rates soar that makes everything more expensive. for example, that obviously shakes confidence. you see that the dow is down 2,000 points. that is going to under a lot of people and get a lot of people afraid. you see the interest rates move higher and you will see their rates across the platform move higher. that means mortgages, home loans, car loans, interest rates and terms of your credit cards. so if we see a market disruption to mauro then that is a different story. it's not the chaos that you

suggested given the fact that these dead lines are a lot farther out. having said that, it is chaos in the market and that tends to have a big impact because it will impact people's behaviors and it is a sort of vicious circle because if i am afraid the market is plunging and i am afraid what that means, maybe i won't spend money or by the big ticket items and companies will sit on cash which they've been doing already. and it sort of is a vicious circle so it just worsens. none of this is good even though tomorrow isn't the chaotic date so many people have been talking about. >> host: let's listen to what secretary treasury lew had to say and i will get your take on that. some get the same time relying on investors around the world to hold u.s. bonds. every week we will look for approximately $100 billion of u.s. bills. if u.s. bondholders decided that they wanted to be repaid rather than continuing to roll over their investments, we could unexpectedly dissipate our entire cash balance. let me be clear, trying to time

the debt limit increase to the last minute could be very dangerous. if congress does not act and the united states suddenly cannot pay its bills the repercussions would be serious. raising the debt limit is congress'' responsibility because congress and congress alone is empowered to set the maximum amount the government can borrow to meet its obligations. >> host: your response? >> guest: that's absolutely right. i agree with the secretary. we shouldn't be waiting until the 11th hour to make plans to actually pay obligations. that's true. but it's silly and it's getting goofy frankly that the two sides cannot just come together on an agreement on how to manage our debt and how to spend money and inappropriate manner. i agree with the treasury secretary is saying. i think one note i would make is the rollover. the treasury rules over a $100 billion every thursday so

that rollover happens because investors want the paper. they want to buy u.s. paper. if we start seeing investors all over the world say i'm afraid the u.s. is not going to pay when the notes come due then we are in the whole and we are going to have to come up with that money if the options are not working. so this is important to mention the rollover debt. that is a big portion of the story. and we don't hear a lot about it. >> host: in the "washington post" today zachary hyatt headlines the bill the credit rating is threatened. they warned they could downgrade the nation's credit rating by the end of the year if the showdown continues. that would become the second major credit rating to disrupt the united states of its pristine aaa reading that could have a ripple affect depending on the u.s. government debt. explain that for people what it could mean for these global

markets. >> guest: well, i mean as i was just saying it is the market perception that may very well start to move people's hand because last night after the market closed -- after the market closed, they said that they were reviewing the aaa rating and reviewing it with a negative watch. in other words the next move would be a downgrade of u.s. debt. the issue is when we do see a downgrade we will see interest rates move higher because it is less confidence in the u.s. ability to pay its obligations and pay its debt. so if we were to see a downgrade that would create a market disruption. that's what we saw last time during the 2008 crisis when the u.s. rating was downgraded. and again it's about triggering the markets. and the markets dictating behavior because as we just talked about, the actual debt

payments are not coming due until the end of the month. and then november 15th is an important date. although november 1st paying social security checks and government workers is obviously of high importance. but if we were to see the markets perceive something different and perceive that okay this is going down a bad road pitted this is actually we were not expecting this because right now if you look at the markets, sure we have had some down days but it hasn't been a stunning reaction. even though you had a couple of days where the markets have been lower, dow is down 130 points or so yesterday, it's really not so significant because there are fractional losses when you consider the fact we had a fantastic year in terms of equities and a fantastic year in terms of where the bond yields are enabling people to borrow and conduct transactions. so far we haven't seen a negative reaction. what that is telling you is the markets are betting on a deal.

the markets are expecting the congress and the president to agree to a deal in terms of the debt limit of the country and in terms of expanding the debt ceiling. anything other than that would be a huge surprise to these markets. and if we were to see a big surprise would be a negative surprise and the markets would sell-off and that were to happen, as i mentioned, the yields would spike, stocks would go down and would create a real moment of fear in the market and would put a standstill attitude on people and on corporations that you have to hoard cash and sit on cash. you don't want to spend money. you don't want to invest or create jobs. you don't want to put money to work anywhere. nobody wants that because as we know two-thirds of economic growth is consumer activity. and i would probably pick up the recession to the >> host: make sure we take your calls. republican the number is

(202)585-3881. the democrats (202)585-3880. for independent the number is (202)585-3882. i want to get your take quickly on how this is impacting the asian markets. on cnbc not, we are seeing the asian stock is over 1%. what are we seeing there? >> guest: we are seeing declines in asia. yesterday after they put the rating on the negative watch it did appear that the markets were rolling over and the futures or indicating an opening today that that never happened actually because things turned around fairly quickly and actually it was looking like a higher opening at the market is looking like a high you're opening in the u.s.. having said that, the nervousness of yesterday said the tone for asia and we did see declines. i wouldn't worry too much about it. but as i mentioned, if we were

to see the market change its perception that in fact we were going to face a default, we were going to extend beyond october 17th, beyond october 31st into november than i would say the market's would react very negatively and we would see real this location and the markets. nobody wants to see that. so that's why i think the market is betting that won't happen. even though the fractional declines in asia are not that significant. >> host: let's take your calls starting with elizabeth in pennsylvania on the line for republicans. >> caller: i watch you every single day on cnbc. i happen to be elizabeth's husband, i trade about 5,000 times a year. can you tell me that the sovereign will fund and the big

companies like goldman sachs aren't setting up through the algorithm a computer models closing 100 points? that's nothing. if the market was fearful like you are saying, the market could be down 500 points. people don't have control of the market like these elder of mick computer models set up by the sovereign will funds. i was able to figure them out charting, and i go by exactly what the big boys do. >> guest: i think what you're saying is right. the markets are not expecting that we see a default. the markets are trading pretty

well in the face of all of this frankly even though we have seen a couple of days of downward pressure. what you're talking about is electronic trading and algorithms, which some of the large institutions that are set up why wouldn't you have a backup plan? like understand that the algorithms are precast and probably seconds before some other players in the market and these computer models are set up for any scenario. so sure, you will see a fast and furious move if in fact we were to see the government default on its debt. no doubt about it. i think i just said that. right now the markets are not expecting that based on what we are seeing. but i'm sure there are plenty of large institutions out there who have created models as you mentioned algorithms that are set up to sell everything in a

nanosecond if something goes the wrong way. and there's no doubt that some large institutions are having backup plans to do just that which would accentuate any decline and make it that much uglier. >> host: we want to note that the markets in the united states are now open and as maria noted they are beginning to open up. given that, do you feel that there is any sort of disconnect between what we are seeing from washington and what wall street believes will happen? >> guest: wall street doesn't expect the u.s. to default. i don't expect the u.s. to the fault. that would be extraordinary. and i think at some point it is obviously going to happen in the 11th hour we will see a deal materialized. for the one reason that both

sides are going to be under pressure come november 1st, as we approach the end of october both sides are going to be under pressure to pay the social security benefit, to pay government workers. they are not going to allow that to happen. so i do not think we will see a default. that's probably the feeling of the market and why we are seeing the gains. people are looking at the market saying as soon as this comes out the market will rally and i want to get in before that. i don't think there is a disconnect. however, i do believe that all of this back-and-forth -- >> we are going to leave the last few minutes of the discussion from today's wall street journal as the u.s. senate is about to gavel in. we expect leaders from both parties to come to the floor to talk about the apparent bipartisan deal reached along the senate leaders to end the government shut down in the financial default. that bill expected to head to the house for consideration some time today as the debt ceiling

deadline is less than a day away. now live to the floor of the senate on c-span2. the president pro tempore: the senate will come to order. the chaplain retired admiral barry black will lead the senate in prayer. the chaplain: let us pray. eternal god, we are grateful that you are gracious and merciful, slow to anger, abounding in steadfast love. lord, we see a faint light at the end of a long, dark tunnel. thank you for lawmakers who understand that when everyone