>> first of all, i've never been so excited to take a test, ever. >> you took the test yourself?

>> right. which they didn't want me to do, which made me want to take it so much more. they never had a reporter take the test, and they sometimes reuse some of the questions. there's a whole security question there. they don't want after rewrite all the questions every single time which makes sense. i had to sign an affidavit swearing i would never reveal the exact questions, and get it notarized which was nostalgic. and then i could take the test. likely there's a bunch of questions they had made public so i could share some of those, but i went to this place and i sat -- they had some poor woman making sure wasn't going to cheat or anything, for hours she sat there. it was the weirdest thing. it is the only time in my life i took a standardized test where i had to actually slow down and do that thing that as adults sometimes don't do enough,

thank. i had to say, wait wait, what is asking me? i had to come up with an argument. there were many questions that headlines underneath and i had to write something and make an argument. many of the questions you didn't get full, there was no right or wrong answers so depends on how cogent your argument was, which is a lot like life as a worker in the 21st century. it's a lot like the work that we do every day. it was fun and convincing that this is different. that was a long answer, sorry. >> among other things you found when you look at the result it may not establish this is a test that does something different, what did you find when you look at the comparisons across countries, and what is it that surprised you most and sent you on this journey that you went on in the book? >> there's some good news, which is american teenagers do decently in reading.

and that doesn't get said quite enough, so i do want to say that. there is still too big of a gap between our most affluent and least affluent kids in reading as well, but where you see a problem in every socioeconomic level is math and science. we are about 26 in the world in math, 17th and sides and 12 in reading at age 15. again, not a perfect measure but a pretty compelling one when lined up with other metrics. one other thing you see is interesting is, depending on how you displace the data, our most affluent 15 euros, the top quartile of most advantaged american kids rank about 18th in the world in math. on this test compared to other most affluent kids around the world who are but what less affluent on average. so that does seem to be something systemic going on that is exacerbated by our poverty

and decisive our country, and in some cases, our diversity and all these other things that we are aware. >> the book focuses on three countries in particular, south korea, finland, and poland. and i think we'll talk about finland later, and we can talk about south korea and some the things you found there as well, but poland i want to focus on because poland in some ways, at least in my view in reading your book, seems to be the most surprising success story. and in some ways seems to have come the furthest and fastest. and so i just wonder, you know, what you can tell us about the polish example in particular. i mean, as you said poland is the butt of a million jokes as we all know, and yet this is a country that is now outperforming the united states

on this exam. so what is it that we can learn from poland? i guess is what i want you to discuss. >> this conversation reminds me of how may times i talk to. >> host: about this over coffee and drinks and had to listen to this or years so thank you, pop clothing -- publicly. spent she also brought her own music. >> anyway, to answer questionable polling is interesting because it has the highest child poverty rate, 15% am almost as high as the united states. it's also a big country, a couple good country. has anyone been to poland? so this is a country with a long history of trauma. and trouble of all kinds. there's a lot of distrust for the central government, not unlike in the u.s.

it's not finland let me just say. so i was really, i found it to be such an interesting ministry. how did polling ago from below average for the developed world on the pisa test to scoring at or above average depending on the subject in just 366 years? they made a bunch of changes during this period. and as often happens some of those changes led to other changes that they didn't necessarily anticipate, but it was really fascinating to see what that looked like. they still have a way to go. polling is not perform at the level of finland, not they do spend about 50% on k-12 education, and they have seen this great growth which is really exciting. just spoiler alert, the thing that matters the most important was that they delayed, there's different things but they delayed tracking dividing the kids into academic and

vocational schools, and they delayed it by just one year, which from 15 to 16 which seems like how can that matter, but there are all these ancillary effects of that so they had over 4000 new schools in order to absorb all those kids in the same place. there was a lot of changes, a lot of teacher training around that, and they also adopted a core set of standards similar to the fights we are having in states around the country now. so much eating all kids together longer in academic settings seem to lift everyone's performance. >> i want to make sure everyone, i'm sure many of you read the book but others are probably just getting around to. some people are watching on c-span are trying to decide whether to buy it. but i want a going to kind of no that this book is really the story of three really remarkable american teenagers. and to me, that's the genius of

the book and what brings it to life and makes it so much different and so fresh compared to the other books in this genre and the field. i know a little bit about how you found these three field agents or moles or whatever you call them. i would love for you to talk to everyone here about how you found them, sort of what their expenses were like, and kind of the mechanism, how did you go about actually communicating with them and getting such an intimate look at their experiences while they were studying abroad? >> right, no. i knew i needed kids to follow but i wanted them to ideally be kids we could compare in a very narrow and profoundly. what we are seeing in these countries, so luckily there are 30,000 teenagers who every essentially switch places, come to the u.s. on high school a

change programs or leave the u.s. and so through groups like asf and the rotary clubs and youth for understanding set of those programs i was able to find students who are on the way, getting ready to go to countries i was most interested in, the finland, the utopia model of education. to korea which is like a pressure cooker model, and poland which is a metamorphosis, a country and transformation. i started out honestly, i thought they would make the book more interesting. i was desperate for characters. as i often, unfortunately, due, i totally underestimated how insightful these kids would be. once you sit down and talk with kids you think you know what they're going to say, or don't say what you think they will say. they had these incredible insights into what they were seeing. not just -- notches in the schools but in their homes, on the bus, in a pizza restaurant.

like they don't make these silos that we do as adults. i ended up, you know, spending a lot of time communicating with them over skype and e-mail and other things, and then visiting each of them in their countries, and then visiting their homes back in the u.s. in meeting their families and teachers, in some cases in the u.s. they were so insightful, these kids, i ended up serving hundreds of other exchange students with the help of asf to try to see if there were patterns in what they were saying. and there were. i mean, you know, it was remarkable. nine a african exchange students said, for example, that classes were easier in the united states than back on. and interestingly seven added 10 american exchange students agreed. nine african agreed sports were more important to kids in the u.s., maybe.

to be expected but still a very high number. seven out of 10 thought that they saw more technology in the u.s. classrooms than back home, and these were almost all coming from develop the world. something the kids i followed as well. >> that gets to the last question i want to ask before we bring in wendy, but the word that comes up repeatedly in your book is rig or. this is the common denominator it seems -- it seems in the system get started that are succeeding with we are not. it seems to me we would all agree we want rigor in our schools, we want our kids to have rigorous classrooms, but we probably, it's probably impossible to agree on what that really means. what are the common ingredients that make up a rigorous education that you found in the three countries you studied?

>> i'll be interested to hear ben and wendy's thoughts on this as well because it's a good question. reger is in the eye of the beholder. the thing that i saw, these are very different countries, but the things that were consistent was that kids were being pushed in, not only the class work, but homework and tests. finland, attest to take a harder. there was a finnish exchange student who came here and went to public school here and she said, you negotiate a great experience. she was on the yearbook, she saw the monument. she ran track and did all this fun stuff but she was frustrated because she kept saying -- being as i don't those like homework she had in elementary school. there was a lot of cutting and pasting and posters. obviously there were some

classes where this was not the case but she was so struck by the fact that she didn't have to think. you do this a lot from exchange students to the u.s., from high-performing countries, not from all countries, that they're just like on automatic. our kids do a lot of homework actually. compared to kids around the world but it's not particularly demanding on average. she did have one teacher who was a journalist teacher who she loved, and all the kids respected or. they felt like they were learning from her. and she asked at the end of term project because all the students had to write 10 articles, and that was required for the class. and so the finnish micro went off and did this and she was the only one who did it. the teacher was frustrated, but nothing happened. and again she was struck by this that there seemed to be, obviously there's variation from school to school, state to

state, but this is something i heard a lot of as well, that there didn't seem to be -- but there was a lot of rhetoric and not like a there there. >> i want to bring wendy into this and focus although on the teaching component of this whole issue. how big is the gap in teacher quality between the united states and the education superpowers as amanda calls them and, you know, given your experience of the last 25 years, are we getting better at recruiting the best and the brightest to not only go into teaching profession, but actually state in its? >> well, one thing, and i have just been thinking of this as i've been listening to this, i think there are going to be some serious forms in my own

knowledge, because as it relates to this broad section because all of our experience is literally working in the highest poverty communities, you know, all across the world. we are not in london, korea or poland. and so, in fact, honestly, the similarities end the issues in the committees were working in across the world are far more striking than the differences actually mean, when you get down to the level of the kid and their circumstances, like they are facing extra challenges in schools that were never set up to meet their extra needs. and typically they don't have teachers who, you know, are throwing themselves in and doing whatever it takes to overcome that circumstance. so i'm seeing a lot of that all over the world, honestly. i will say, i mean, one can sort of wonder about, i have a

question. sorry, is that -- >> scheuer. i'll go get a drink last night. >> so it's just interesting. i was in korea where there are, in fact, such obsessions of education that i think there are four or five teach for korea's. they are not exactly what we're doing, but i'm a celebrity in korea as far as i can figure. seriously, there's an obsession over this but it was fascinating to be there and talk with a bunch of actually college students have gone through the koreans system and would either, there in college here. so they were talking that what they see as a dysfunction of the actual system. he right about this in the book where it's like you have a school system where at least in the estimation of those 40 or so kids i was talking to, they were learning precious little but then it would go to these hard ones at 11 p.m., get out and go

home and study. but what was i saying is they get a top 5% of students academically to go into teaching in the regular system. and i was talking to some of the powers that be an good thing is they start a fund that they get sucked in by a dysfunctional system. the whole thing was resting in a certain way. i'm just curious because you spent a lot more time working on the koreans system spent is a crazy labrador, very interesting place. wanting it is every selective about elementary school teachers, and that is 5% are talking about. and not so much with high school teachers. so it's like in the u.s. the edge the more high school teachers than they need. we educate twice as many teachers as we need in over a thousand education colleges of wildly varying quality and selectively. that's what korea does for the upper grades, because they have a teacher shortage at some point

and decided to throw open the doors to anyone. once you do that colleges become dependent on that revenue and it's hard to change it. so they have this strangely bifurcated situation. and as kids get older they spent more and more time and getting more and more fixated on the test that they will take which is like the sat but which will determine the rest of their lives in some way. so it is a dysfunctional system that no in korea particularly things alike, but there was, very hard to disrupt that demand. as it is in many countries around the world. the united states, thankfully, is very below average for the -- it is growing and it is something that tends to exacerbate income inequality. in korea, 70% of teenagers actually get their second school system after dark, and kids

really come in surveys, prefer those teachers. so there are some interesting things i think to learn from that second system, which is very different from the different system. system. >> to the original question, there was a study not that long ago that mckinsey did that found that one of the biggest two different shares of the school system but are making, are getting the best result is that they do select their teachers based on a very rigorous standard before they can invest in their training and support. with a very different system here. you've got lots and lots of people majoring in teacher education, schools of education notoriously don't attract the most talented of our folks academically on average. although of course there some exceptions. and so we have a different

system in terms of who is drawn into the profession. >> i kind of underestimated, i mean, i realized it matter if you have a great education mibs easier for you to teacher subject but we know that's not enough. we can all agree having a high gpa is not a predictor of great teaching. what's surprising was the signals that send to everybody else, to the parents, taxpayers, to the kids about the profession and education in general, you know, that when we stay here, teaching is hard, education is important but we don't really act like in many cases. so it kind of -- it kind of ads this credibility that i think has many applications that are hard to measure. >> that's a good opportunity for ben to weigh in. are you feeling that there have been changes in the way in which your profession and your own

role as a teacher has changed? i mean, do you feel that people are more supportive, you've gone through such an era of fiscal reform since you became a teacher. how has that changed what you do everyday? and did you feel that you have the kind of support, not just from your colleagues, but really from society at large to do your best work? >> i mean, i think i could talk about my career in the free school that about right now, and the pope. when i first joined the teaching fellows, which is an alternative certification program, there was really no support. we had maybe three weeks of test prep for the two test that we had to take. and after that i was just put into a classroom. and so it was really sink or swim. we were maybe 12 in my school,

and by the end of the second, we were only about three. it's changed a lot because i had no real professional development. i didn't really understand the basics for a long time i had to seek my own professional development. when i went to my new school, however, it's a completely different paradigm. it's like administration is like pushing you to be better. and teacher teams are better. we hold each other to really high standards. we innovate. we did a lot of things -- when i was in finland i was like, this is not good teaching, isn't? it's really, it's really traditional. that was the most shocking thing to me about finland. i just felt like i was down a little bit for a while because i visited schools album in finland, probably been to more

classrooms than anyone in the country had ever been too. and sort of saw the same teaching in the upper levels. but any elementary field, preschools, the quality of teachers was fantastic. and so i don't think that as a nation we value teachers, at least good teachers, i suppose. and i'm not sure what that means necessarily, but that sort of discourse how children teacher bashing for a while, particularly when i was in finland watching the whole indiana fiasco here and just what is going on here? you know, and having these hour-long debates or discussions with friends in finland, just what are you doing to teachers? we don't understand this. so i think that perhaps the momentum for teacher bashing might have slowed down somewhat, but yeah, i don't think we hold the profession to the regard

that other countries do. it's definitely damaging. >> how portable were things that you learn in finland, and how easily of human able to apply them in the classroom here? i guess one criticism that you hear a lot is that of any kind of international comparison, is that united states has a far more diverse, ethnically diverse, social economically diverse economic -- student population do we see anywhere else in the world. and arlington best practices from a genius country like finland are just not going to work you. have you found that to be the case? what has worked and what hasn't? >> structurally they are more -- to our poor schools, poor districts. there are places where it's really rural and the median income is probably near poverty.

and so that is a vision of the funds were fairly equal, and the schools into six were able to make their own decisions in terms of spending. so the diversity in terms of income not as great as the u.s., but what i was able, i went to finland very light centered on the cognitive aspect of what they're doing because i based my research on the pisa test itself. so when i went to of looking for all these little magic bullet that i could come back and that would increase students cognition and higher level thinking and all the. and i thought, i didn't really need some of that stuff but it did bring it back and i made my class more rigorous i would say and the assignments, i sort of exported. but then i was running into a lot of difficulties in the years

since. the problem is that poverty changes the physiological aspects of the brain. some of my kids just that, regardless of how much support they received, they just didn't have some of the skills, the conscientiousness and the ability to -- so i'm calling those the soft academic skills. and developing them with my kids actually. so reading a lot of research on some of those noncognitive skills and trying to support the kids in changing the way they view their own intelligence and changing the way in which they respond to a difficult and really challenging tasks. so, i mean, i understand that at the end of the day we are really aiming for really challenging, really high cognitively demanding tasks that we want kids to do. but if the obstacle is the ability to start the task, you

know, what are ways in which we can change the way in which they view themselves, they view intelligence, they relearn and start the process. a lot of my kids today face the challenges. >> did you find that there were things you saw in your research in finland where you noticed those soft academic skills? >> yeah, absolutely. i didn't see them thing. it was a process of reflection. >> i remember having a beer with you and we both liked, what? it's very hard when you in the midst of it to kind of make sense. >> right. >> because using and it don't after anecdote. anyway, go ahead. >> in the two years since, i've still been following finland, but the joke is, finish my kids don't even start school until seventh grade. that's not true. they start preschool right away. and i think that's where those

thoughts were academic skills are developed. by law, depending on the age, they have a one to three or one to four student ratio. those teachers are tasks with facilitating learning, talking to kids, teaching them how to fail, teaching them resiliency, teaching them how to play with each other, make rules, be creative, be curious about learning. like we don't have that. at the moment the kid is for, they are pushing the system and have to learn to read, write, spell and did math and all this other stuff where's finish my kids are nurtured and i believe if the research and read is correct it's changing their own way, there own intelligence is are and how they can respond to stress and how they can respond to the challenges that academic, you know, they face in their

academic lives. and that translates to the real-life eventually. it's not something we value. i'm learning that more and more. [inaudible] >> it does not exist -- >> do you want to tell the -- >> there's no translation but grit and resiliency and the ability to pick yourself up despite challenges. i think that's the closest we get to the finnish concept speak something that is core to the story they tell about themselves, which partly comes from being, it's finland, cold, dark and miserable. you have to kind of -- >> and always surrounded by enemies. >> and not having a lot of natural resources. but it is a really cool -- on the one hand it's discouraging because its cultural. on the other hand, we know you can teach these skills and it helps if you start when kids are four. but it in some ways, certainly teachable, would you agree, especially if you start early?

>> i think they are highly teachable. i'm doing it now with the sixth and seventh graders. it's a little harder. they don't necessarily believe everything that you talk to them about. but when you build trust and relationships, that's the finnish thing, trust and relationship. then they are more apt to sort of believe what you're doing. and when you, as teachers, create learning opportunities where they feel successful and can build on the small successes, then slowly slowly you can really change the way kids view themselves. spent let me just lastly ask, building on that before it opened it up to questions, you know, one of the big points of the book is that this is not necessarily about policy or it's about culture or psychological change that needs to take place, not just in our school system but really in our society. but since this is a think tank,

what are some policy changes that are not happening that need to take place either at a local level or national level? and do you feel that there is this urgency that is necessary to kind of make the cut of changes as finland and south korea, poland made to kind of catapult themselves into the category of high-performance? do we have that sense of a nation you? >> right. i mean, there's tremendous emotion, a lot of goodwill, and there's a lot of money in the united states on education, and education reform. even though it feels like there's no money, we still spend more than all the three countries per student on k-12 education. and i think we do have some real assets. one of the things the kids i surveyed mentioned repeatedly on their own was how much they like their american teachers. because they talk to them, they were interactive.

their classrooms had more dialogue. the kids from germany and italy really especially loved them. and that is a huge strength if you're trying to teach higher order thinking skills and noncognitive skills, to have that interplay. if it's combined with rigorous work and other things. so i think that's encouraging. i think an area that we haven't spent a lot of capital on that we could do better is actually parents. i think parents want to do the right thing. and sometimes there's so much noise about what that is. so how parents do a lot. i mean, they work a lot and then they do a lot. and especially compared to bears around the world. i think it would redirect that and help parents do things that are actually conducive,

especially to developing those skills you are talking about. i think that would be a great fertile ground spent when the, do you have any thoughts? >> well, i was thinking about another question, sort of -- sorry again. no. it was just so interesting, like you just said that when you switch schools, it was just a different world. you're getting and administration and a level of teamwork, and it seems like lots of focus on helping teachers develop. i guess i think about, i was just in shanghai actually, and this is a system that's undergone a huge transformation, as far as i can gather, over the last one to two decades. it's not at the highest levels of excellent -- excellence in will get into the store is a man who seems to have led the charge, you know, it's all the basics, first of all it's all

the basics that we would all think, and in my mind that are driven to change. one of the most fundamental things is they focus on creating really well managed schools where you've got very engaged school leaders who are absolutely determined to get a building full of good results, and create a culture and a set of systems and a set that supports that lead to a tremendous focus on teamwork and professional development. back to the topic of teacher quality, and this is a question for you, amanda. i've seen it through our own work were i to start thinking, i don't think the solution is necessarily changing schools of that to get teacher quality. i think it may be about changing our schools. but i don't know how we're really going to get there until all of our teachers come in to schools that are just much more functional places than the average school kids right now. i just wondered if you see that

at all in the three countries you look at? and also if you saw it in finland? is the part of what works better? >> in terms of -- what you mean? >> it's not even equity. the difference between your for school and your second school. >> this is how we come back -- when you have a relationship when everybody, in finland there is a union advertisement they put up in the '80s that said, finland has the best educated teachers in the world. gestating effect. imagine if you could say that. what would flow from it. we have some awesome teachers but there given that kind of instead to show lies respect and trust. so if you start out from the beginning. i mean, you know, teach for america is the most elite teacher prep program in this country, the one that is

elevated to the point where people go to ivy league schools opt for no teachers. this is a new thing. but you also come part of the reason they do this because it's a limited commitment, right? it's almost like this interesting challenge of how do you shift that? i don't need to tell you. once you have that trust. so i routinely mention the students in finland who did not get into education college on the first try. is one that has been a lot of time with a did not get in on a second to get hud's reapplying india substitute teaching. and so the kids, the teenagers in particular, new, they didn't all like the teachers. every country i went to their some kids texting in the back of the room because this, they are not like perfect intellectual heavyweights. but they knew that this was not a joke. that those teachers had worked

very, very hard and really want to be there in order to get there. and again, not all were perfect but not all agree. i have seen better teachers in some cases. but once you have that trust in any company, then you're able to give them the autonomy that romesh has in his job, to take chances, to make connections. >> let's open it up before we start talking about my job. [laughter] opened up to question but we don't have a lot of time so please be brief and ask questions, no statements. so why don't we start in front. >> the three of you have talked about teacher education at the quality of teacher education. i was wondering if you could say from a different expenses what you think that is, like a good quality teacher education? and then how much it relates to

it, is it more and how you select the people get in or is it something that teacher education should be doing or is doing that is good in quality? >> i was the quicker i think the selectivity is important in the signaling affects that has to everybody else. i don't think that itself needs to be tedious but i think that signaling effect is really, really powerful and it allows you to make the case for paying teachers more, for giving the more a ton and all these things. if you have a barrier to entry at the beginning. >> i agree the selectivity is probably the keystone to the quality of the teacher. but i think mentoring is so lacking, although it is a central. again, i guess it becomes a snowball effect. when it's a low quality teacher who doesn't get much professional development, they are kind of stuck in some want

to get better but the emphasis on getting better might be way far away because you're dealing with these kids. once you're in the trenches it's really hard to find ways to sort of satisfy yourself and become better. >> and i'll say i think your point on the signaling effect, which is made throughout this whole thing is really fascinating. it is true, i think you've got to start with a set of personal characteristics first of all. as you all alluded to. we have done so much studying at teach for america around like what are they characters that differentiate the folks. you can get the funding that predicts success. it's stuff like literally number one, great, perseverance, and a number of other personal characteristics. so i do think starting with a certain person makes, these important, but we've also just

seen firsthand, there is a lot to success in teaching. the mindset, the skills, knowledge that you need to truly, truly succeed with your kids. it's just immense. and the question is how do you get that. and i think everything we've seen is acclimate is all the more convinced that what we really need is to do a lot better job, as you said, of the ongoing coaching and professional development, whether we, professional development or management. a good manager is really just good at developing people. so i'm not sure, i would not put people in classes without training. but i think there's a lot of folks out there can figure out what do we need to do at the pre-service-level and what has to happen in an ongoing kind of never ending way really. >> i am curious, your perspective on unions haven't

taken a global perspective on how they fit in. can it work? any lessons learned? >> everywhere i went there was a very strong teachers union, and, therefore, i went to principals complained about teachers union and education officials complained and the teachers complained about the principle. so there were a lot of certain, knows which maybe when the conspicuous well, but there were differences and how adversarial relationship was between the union leadership. i would never say that they got along great but there were even in finland, remember there were big disputes because they're trying to change the curriculum. teachers had been inheriting the

right to teach passed down from the family. and the union is very, very powerful and it's not very balanced. historically has not been. that relationship seems to be borne of also how unions develop in the countries and when they develop and why they developed. so that's a complex question but it doesn't seem to be the presence of the unions. as in all of this stuff, like it's the quality of the homework, of the testing, other teaching, of the management as opposed to the amount of it or the presence of it. >> actually i think the gentleman had his hand up. >> i wanted to just say, i want to echo, you've written a window book that is very clear, crisp and also grounded in research. it's also very optimistic, i think particularly the case of

poland suggests that change is possible. public policy matters. i want to pick up on that. can you talk about what americans should dislike football a little bit more? and what public policy can do about that, given all the changes you talked about were really very driven from the center, required strong central government or public policy makers to move those changes. >> thank you. i think you have to look at the united states as 50 different countries, because states and locals run and funded most of the education. so then you do start to see, they do have some leverage here over education colleges would say regulate the heck out of already, and over what is allowed and what's not about. the sports example i think is something that i never would really thought about, but the kids that i followed kept

bringing this up. in fact, it was a little bit -- the deck was a little bit stacked because one of the reasons that some kids go on exchange programs is because they are not super into football and high school is super into football. and so kim, for example, was one of the reasons obviously, but kim from rural oklahoma, she tried to fit in to her town. she tried to be a cheerleader, she's a little girl. she's scared to do a car whale just can't get past that. -- a cart wheel. she had to quit back in third grade i think a pitcher living filter is early in oklahoma. then she joined a marching band because again, all these things surround the center of the town life, which is football. so she tried to join the band and she played and practiced the flute. she tried and she tried to shows like seventh seventh chair. and this was a small --

[laughter] she just didn't find, she's very curious about the world. she never left the united states but she really wanted to. she felt like there must be some place out there where she would be into whatever was the central driving life force of the town and the school. so the -- it was something i realize i underestimated the distraction. i think it's symptomatic. i think it's symptomatic of a larger font about rigorous work in school and what it's for. so american principles all over the country reaching have to consider whether a candidate can coach before the-because they have coaching demands. principals have told me most other meetings are with theirs in high school is around sport, complaints about playing or not playing or the coach for this but and then have to manage 10

different athletic budgets and have to do with hiring substitutes because the coaches go on away games. there are like a thousand things that we don't think about spent the school day starts earlier. >> there will still be a let down. many places are having teen practiced during the school day. there are all these things that we sort of allowed to happen that signal, again, to be repetitive, to our kids what matters, right? and, obviously, more matters in this world than math, but when you tell kids in a thousand ways that basketball or football is where it's at, they are going to believe it. and they will find out eventually that it's not true. and so i think those signals the kids pick up on are really

powerful, and we should at least stop, not saying banned football, but we should at least have a conversation. when football costs two to three what math cost per student, which it does, maybe that's worth it but let's have a conversation. let's decide is that trade off worth it and isn't worth it for the majority of kids who don't play football? >> let's sort of bundled the last few here. here in the back and then over here. we'll take all three. speed would it be possible for you to give us an example of teaching done in a quality way? >> do you want to come to my school? [inaudible] >> and it is an incredibly dynamic thing is that i think

it's hard to understand. so maybe again, i know it's hard it is there one particular thing? >> let's take the other two. [inaudible] >> getting back to the unions, this is a two-part question. what is your view on tenure and then the effect it has on the teaching? and then also the role of standardized testing, everybody just taking these tests and not really thinking, i guess, is a better word for it. and and then that gentleman there. >> thanks. you mentioned a little bit about a source parents and football. i'm wondering what other cultural aspects at home, parental support and parental grouping our culture that is different, how do they support their children differently, you

know, then in other countries? >> let's start with the tenure and the testing. >> win you seek in your all over the world, is a pretty standard? >> gosh, such different context. we are not always in less developed countries but we see it. but this is somewhat operating in our honestly, we're not operating them in places in finland, shanghai. were operating in places that system that would bring much like hours spent just on your experience year. i'm sure you -- >> i mean, in my age variance, the way to get to the outstanding results for kids is to have really high quality schools. and generally, those are the

schools led by principals who are determined to get their kids to a place of excellence, and to build their own teaching teams, like they are obsessive about ensuring that they have the people they need in each and every classroom. it's hard to do that in a system like we have in this state, and ashley some states have moved to different situations here in the u.s. and we do in fact, we are empowering. some states are empowering principals to hire the teachers they need. then they build a powerful culture, you know, and they build, provide mentoring and support professionals government that the kids need. so i think to the extent that our tenure system ties principle stands over the most important ingredient for success, and to withhold the principals accountable. this is a messed up system.

we've moved towards accountability but we forgot to free people up in terms of figuring out how they spend their budget and higher into the put on the team and such. we are caught in this place. >> do you want to take the question about -- >> let's go on to parenting. >> there was a great study, not a huge amount of data but a great study of 13 different countries and regions that looked at parents and practices connected to pisa results. it down with some other interesting study in the u.s., which is that consistently all around the world, there are just a few things that helped raise the children who are critical thinkers and close readers and enjoy that kind of work, even if you control for socioeconomic backgrounds, and those things some of which are clichés at this point, read to your child almost everyday when their leader -- little, but as they

get older talk to your child about their day, about the "news of the world," about what they're reading. one of the coolest things from that study is that parents who read for pleasure on their own, even after control for everything else, tend to have children who by age 15 enjoy reading more and are better critical thinkers when it comes to reading. so you see how there's this complicated interaction that happens in those conversations that parents are having with their kids. and it helps to know a few tricks. like to ask your kid as you're reading, what do you think is going to happen next? i didn't know that. and my kids teacher told me. suddenly we start having this conversation. this is what i mean, i did robo calls for my kids public school in d.c. telling them to go to chipotle because 1 penny of every burrito of a certain they would go to school. i don't get robo calls and i'm hoping this will change as they

keep saying this. i don't get calls that say don't forget to read to you kids tonight, and when you're reading, ask your kids why do you think that what is coming? what do you think will happen next? what does this picture show you? sometimes tedious i think in my a springfield like that is so obvious, i don't need each other, but i neede need them tol me. and that leadership is really helpful for parents. and that priority setting, it turned out in that same study parents who volunteer in the kids schools ended pta meetings and sports is actually inversely related to read and performed by the time the kids are 15. so in other words, the more the parents are volunteering in extracurricular activities, the worst the kids are doing in reading which is outrageous on every level. but i think it speaks to this point that parental involvement works, depending on where it happens. and i think where it works best honestly is at home.

>> it's common knowledge that finland has the shortest school year in the world. in the developed world. but in actuality because of standardized tests, and i didn't come accountability, all that, i can tell you at least anecdotally that i lost last get anywhere between three and four weeks of instructional time because i had to implement mandated diagnostics. i had implement all these ridiculous stuff. i had to give three days of field tests. why are my kids losing so much instructional time? so that they can hone their test and still screw up? [laughter] [applause] >> it's this notion of trust. if you don't have from the beginning that level of trust and autonomy, you end up with ridiculous -- we have a ton of

standardized tests, most of which are not very smart. so again it's quantity over quality. quality. >> okay, i think we've gone over time you. c-span has probably gone over to ted cruz. you want to talk about this? >> we can probably describe, what does great teaching look like? >> in a nutshell -- >> like one tiny -- >> well again, this is different although i would love it if my kid had a teacher like this. i just told the story. this story is very memorable because i had a fifth grader at the time i visited a fifth grade teacher in east san jose. when i walked in i saw this class of kids, and this is one of the more hard-pressed communities. she told me her kids when she first got them in fourth grade reading at around the first grade level. psycho and i see the kids.

i wish our member which novel they were reading. there in the midst of an intense class discussion. the level of rigor of this like critical thinking, kids pushing, like good answers, high energy. i was sitting there realizing, my kids class on the upper west side of manhattan is nowhere near this. then i spent more time with his teacher and some other things which are passing. i saw leadership circles which turn outward like weekly events with the kids would give each other feedback on your leadership. no snickers, like would be occurring in my kids class. they were taking the solicitor's or. they learned characteristics like a grid, et cetera, et cetera. this was a series conversation. one -- this teacher has just determined, she just got on a mission, she got her kids and kids parents on a mission. she's thinking i'm going to make sure my kids come out of my room with the academic skills, the

personal characteristics, the determination, the sense of personal just agency and advocacy to get a great education. one day, the last piece of this, she sits down at the desk, handset worksheets and isn't her normal dynamic engaged so. the kids are totally confused at the end of the day she says they today feel any different? the kids were like yeah. one kid said, i had a class the public is once. she said, you may have once again. so let's spend the next hour brainstorming. what are you going to do if you ever find yourself in a class like that? so honestly, what differentiates -- i think of her as a great leader. in our context, teachers we need are incredible leaders. this woman came in, saw her fourth graders at a first grade level and was like what am i going to do to make sure that my kids end up getting to and through college?

she's said a vision, she got her kids and parents on a mission to get there by sitting down one on one with him and saying here's where you are. it doesn't have to be that way. if you work with me we'll get there. she did what great leaders do. on every level, so purposeful, determine. anyway, that's a truly great teacher. >> thank you very much. well, the book is "the smartest kids in the world." please join me in congratulating amanda and this wonderful -- [applause] >> so great. [inaudible conversations] >> send us an e-mail at booktv@c-span.org. or tweet us at

twitter.com/booktv. this fall booktv as marking our 15th anniversary, and this weekend we look back at 2005. 1776, about the immigrant revolution was a best seller that you. spent by speaking of the army that marched with washington. and i want to just reach you very briefly the way i introduced the army in the early pages of my book, 1776. the great majority were farmers and skilled artisans, shoemakers, sadness, carpenters, blacksmiths, who burst, taylor's and ship chandler. the colonels regiment who were destined to play as an important part is anywhere nearly all sailors and fishermen. it was an army of men accustomed to hard work, hard work being the common law been. they were familiar with adversity and making do in a

harsh climate. the source will -- resourceful, handy with tools, they could drive a yoke of talks i in or pl off a stunt or tie a proper not as readily as butcher a hollowed or amend a pair of shoes. they knew from experience, most of them, the hardships and setbacks of life. preparing for the worst is second nature. rarer was a man who never seem someone die. to be sure an appreciable number had no trade, they were drifters, tavern lowlife, some the dregs of society. but by and large they were good, solid citizens, as were the people as ever marched out of step, as would be said. married men with families who depended on them and with whom they tried to keep contact as best they could. it was the first american army and an army of everyone, -- >> others bestsellers.

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his early days as well as a reporter or editor of writer, washington court wanted it to the editor. i was a farmer's city editor, so we share a lot of the same friend memories. both adventures are john doe and author. callous newspaper to work for lamar alexander who successfully ran for governor tennis needs following the 1970s elections was appointed special assistant to the governor. he served as speechwriter and coordinator. since the 1960s than a speechwriter and public affairs consultant and is not writing about the column for us, monthly or weekly? so look for that on the op-ed pages. the book is "coup." today's democrats are lamar alexander and officer lynn stopped the pardon scandal. it is a fascinating book. we'll show you a dvd in a minute

i will tell the story. the first of all, why did you write the book? >> well, let me say first i want to pay my respects at shira al-assad specialty o. p. a one is gail kerr. gail is a treasure in our city. i read her column this morning and i'm sure you are due to come every time there is one for that matter in that respect so much should appreciate your friendship. i can't sit here in this place did not acknowledge the national public library, which was early -- we are not just to throw here for the state cap over so much of this has had good, that this institution and ken oliver and his staff were so helpful and my research for the book. this is nonfiction.

it may read the novel, the police may come, you can't make this stuff up. the folks in the nashville room who hoped he would find the old newspaper clips and photos. the tennessean has their own photo archive at 1100 broadway. all of its workers are here in the nashville public library. just at the end of the nashville room. political cartoons and photos. so i just want to say that. why did i write the book? i think i wrote the book for two reasons. one is this involves a situation, telling the story. it happened in our city and not too far from where we're sitting today, that it never happened before anywhere in our kanji. anywhere and any state in

america and it never happened since. this is a one-of-a-kind thing. i gripe is gail did as a newspaper reporter. i like to tell a good story. the struct is a pretty darn good yarn i hope you will agree if you read the book. so that's one. i like to tell the good story. this is a darn good tale. the other reason is the further i got into the research in the interviews, i interviewed 163 people come which boggles me at this point. the thick of further into my research, i thought the stories not only sent in a habit and 34, 35 years ago. it is a story that has great relevance to our country and the current day. that is because it's a story,

this terrific coup that happened in tennessee. it is essentially a tory of senior leaders from their respect to political parties in a moment of crisis reach across the aisle as we say it worked together as tennesseans. i hope this clip will work. if it does camino see at the end then speaker of the house met in the quarter. of course he was later governor himself. do not all meant computer speaker of the state house of representatives. to see him make a statement in response to a tv reporter that in many ways captured the essence of the story. so what i'm trained to save the whole whole notion of bipartisanship, collaboration, reaching across the aisle, arriving at a solution that required putting aside partisan

politics. it's a very relevant story. it's worth sitting here today in this hour in washington to be, the u.s. senate is discussing what to do about the shutdown of our government. and what to do about the credit worthiness of our country after next thursday was going to happen. arguably, that situation has occurred because there's been a lessening, a diminishing of the capacity to reach across the aisle. so i thought it be very helpful and timely to have a case study. i think the only hope of our country is people will find that compromise, collaboration, bipartisanship are not dirty words picked but in fact, the resignation but a few weeks ago

done for "usa today" sampled over a thousand americans, voting age citizens. they are trying to probe, why do people not participate as candidates for public office at a level that once was the case. they ask people, have you thought about running for office yourself? only 22% of men said yes i have or yes i would consider it. only 8% of women said yes. now that's a pretty disturbing statistic if you ask me. i believe in a strong two party system. i also believe with all of this in this room believe in a strong two gender system. from 8% of women to say no is fairly alarming. the next question was why would she not? the most interesting breakout of

that data, those responses was the respondents over 30 were asked the question and responded to under 30. the people of her 30s that i would not because it's too time-consuming. we can all appreciate that. running for office takes a toll on career, on family and so forth. the people under 30 in the survey, why would she not run for yourself? people under 30 say because politics today seems to be too nasty and mean. that's a quote. i think that is very disturbing for our country. for younger folks who have that. so just to cut this off, i felt that a case at it, believe me, this is a case study of how very senior political leaders, no question ardent republicans, yellow dog democrats -- i can say that because my daddy was

one. yet they put this aside and dealt with. that's my second reason to write the book. >> to set the stage will show you were minutes of the news coverage. this is a cold night in 1979. reporters are scrambling because they know something's going on. they've been behind the scene meeting all day because the city governor was selling prison sentences. for 50 granny could get out of jail. this is me. these are murderers. there were rumors they would be set free. cannot constitutionally throw this guy out early? of the leadership of the state are democrats and republicans got elected. so what do you do? >> one more word of set up. if you go back to december 15, 1978, a month and half after the

election is happen. amar alexander was selected. he defeated cheap pitcher from nashville, tennessee. so they're not equally into planning for the new administration, the maturation. it's going to happen on january 20th the new year. on december 15, the fbi arrests three people. one is the governor's chief legal counsel, who was arrested in his office on the ground floor of the tennessee state capital ran it history. with marked money in his pocket. in the same hour, agents arrest the governor's extradition officer. not the capital, but the national airport. he didn't have money, but he had a briefcase in the briefcase is clemency documents for somebody who is the subject of an fbi investigation into the so-called limited or cash scandal. in the same hour, a third person was arrested. that is the governor, a

lieutenant on the tennessee highway patrol. i get angry in this moment still thinking about it. he was however by this time known by the fbi has been the man to see if you're trying to get a relative address and video. he's the one you talk to. jump ahead one month. junior 15. governor blanton after hours. about 9:30 at night science 52 clemency documents. comes out of this office. the reporter says gail recalls clambering, what's new? it just wasn't the tennessee and at the national banner. it was the mayor times in the "chicago tribune" and abc and nbc and cbs. they lurk in fact pardoned robert humphreys who became the

poster child for the clemency for cash scandal. interesting mr. humphries was never implicated as having benefited from clemency for cash. he was simply the son of a political crony and upper east tennessee. jump ahead two mornings later. the united states attorney for the middle district of the, how hardened. mr. harden is in private law is. very imminent distinguished lawyer. he was the u.s. attorney and he was approached in the hallway of the key path federal building a few blocks that way. the fbi agent says hal, it's not over. what do you mean it's not over? there was another list coming. how hardened, who i regard than the quarter is to heroes of this story. realized something had to happen. governor blanton might do anything. there is some worry james earl

ray, who had to be the most notorious prisoner entering our country, but certainly in a tennessee prison that he might be on the next list. so how hardened except the phone calls not his boss. how hardened was one of the most senior democrat winners they, certainly in tennessee. there was some thought he might run for governor himself one day. may yet. she picked up the phone and called not his bus, the attorney general of the united states, griffin bell from georgia who is on president carter's cabinet. president carter had appointed how hardened to be u.s. attorney. he calls the republic. and because lamar alexander. he said any to be sworn in before the day is out. that cost set in motion a whole afternoon you read about in the book. but at 5:00 -- five minutes to 6:00 that evening, people in

nashville rock in the cbs affiliate channel five, watching chris clark. all of a sudden, actually they were watching a five minutes before 6:00 erogenous cbs evening news with walter cronkite. there was an. an outcome you don't do that. the producers in new york agreed because this is such towering significance. people watching channel five in nashville all of a sudden solve this. adding imac [inaudible]

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[inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible] >> amazing how much hair people had, it met? and the outfits, brings back the memories of that night.

kerr, one that you read us a little bit from your book? been that i will read a little bit. i'm happy to. i also want to say, genocide tv reporter hank allison that you saw with the microphone reporters face at the end. hank allison's sister is here. we just not outside. i also want to pay my respects -- i forgot to do this earlier. michael attains a mercer hand. michael is director of the band about press. thank you. i thought they would reach his two quick selections. one is about blanton. the other is about to whether people in the story that we don't typically associate with this story, but i'll explain that in a minute. ray blanton grew up in west tennessee over towards memphis

and he likes to tell people on the campaign trail that he grew up dirt poor, the son of a sharecropper work in the cotton fields of west tennessee and not bikini familiars dory and it was true. that was literally true. and then he went on and got into politics and from chapter four, in the middle of the arc of his life, and a sharecropper son precedent-setting locals and captain sinkings. but at the end, only one name, robert humphreys would be linked to his own above all others in this finale, bush shakespearean ending, the governor was the master of his own misery. they did not know each other in the beginning. clinton said so later in defense of his own actions. this was true. yet done what he did to help you

and on the recommendation of his topmost political adviser in tennessee who said the same after the going got rough. lambton humphreys were also a generation apart insert me help from opposite ends in different places in tennessee from a different inch of rain in politics. play it and from winds and the west, humphries from the mountains in the east. no geography is flatter her plainer than the plantation savanna of southwestern tennessee, late in the home side adamsville 90 telstra memphis is on the edge of the perry county and closer to to mississippi than it is to nashville. humphries was also reared in a placid neighborhood in a peaceful town. but his homes in the eastern highlands johnston city is in fact one of the remotest places in the state in relation to the capital in nashville. in johnson city when used in on

the washington county courthouse steps coming or 60 miles closer to canada then you should memphis. i thought it would just read also reap reef passage here, but this is, gail, partly in respect to my female partner appear at all the women in the room. thank you for being here. this story, like most of the people as images he just saw, most of the main characters were men that we associate the story of this tale the blanton, the alexander, mcwhorter wilder, attorney general will leitch and chief justice of our state supreme court, joe henry, who's the one he saw administered the oath. louis dolphin, distinguished attorney from memphis who gave

us a prayer on that short clip. there are men. of course again a story, this is the other thing i found compelling about this story. of course like anything in our lives, it's not just about men. the true story involves families, spouses, children who particularly in a situation where swap the long, were swept forth in this effected their lives, too. so i just thought it was singled out to women. when you didn't see on the clip that is mrs. alexander, honey alexander holding the family bible for that. men. as she would do three days later at the official -- the formal moderation, which is also presided over by chief justice joe henry. alexander by that time had been sworn into times. the night of the two in the more

traditional ceremony on the legislative plaza just a street. the first woman that i think i would read about here was harney and the second is the wife of tennessee attorney general bill leitch, donald h. who on the day of the coup, just to give you a flavor for why this is so interest to me, there's a lot of coincidence, and maybe call it lot of coinc, and maybe call it serendipity. bill leitch and his wife donna celebrated the birth of their son. their baby was born not morning. bill leitch had just come back from washington. you set there arguing the case before the u.s. supreme court. the pinnacle of a lawyer's professional life. and yet he was getting calls from the monday night before and he was incredulous that this

release of 52 prisoners who set in motion that governor clinton, which is site dropping a match in a can of gasoline. is that this guy and he had to get back to tennessee. so i will read to you. on sunday morning, the day after the second inauguration. the coup is over by three or four days. the macro parade have happened. this is not the next morning. on sunday morning, january 21, honey alexander remembers waking to see new fallen snow. it's the middle of january. new fallen snow, i'll wait to and even across a broad one of the executive residence on curtis wood lane, where they now lived. it covered the grass and topped the shrubbery and trees. everything and required blanket of way.

sunday when it snowed, and was let go of it had been washed away. it was a new day and it was bright, beautiful. it was clean again. all that dirtiness is behind us. for me, that image of the ways no replacing the great, the dark/on the streets, the driveways on the cars became this wonderful metaphor for the transition that had been made, a very abrupt thing and yet just as the grass grows, the snow falls. on the same sunday morning, and on the leitch finally departed with tiny wells at various models in a warm link it against the biting air. donna's mother, sir babb of oak ridge had flown into town morning to help out.

so the attorney general's first stop on the way to the hospital had been at the national port to pick her. later today he returned to charlotte, his hometown, to fetch kd, now without end, who had been staying with his mother. she would meet her brother in the afternoon. donna had been at the hospital for a full week. he'll had visited her often, but usually in the evening after will have dirty been removed to the nursery for the night. at the hospital across the street. on one of his sisters, bill brought his daughters to see the new baby, but their first glimpse of them had also been to the class of the nursery window. it was not until sunday morning when father, mother, grandmother and an finn finally left hospital together that leitch finally held the baby in his own arms for the first time.

the four of them are now loaded to the single seat of the pickup truck with leitch behind the wheel, sir on the passenger side and donna in between them they headed south. they turned up highway 247 in murray county and onto highway seven often cause santa fe paid. wembley due steered the pickup octopi path to pay, he did not drive to the house immediately. he stopped the bottom of the driveway at associate circuit from a teardrop for her shape. from this position, they could now see the house through the trees. today rate they could look across the rolling pasture beyond the real sense. donna remembers how the new snowfall had tested house, barn and field, reflecting the late morning sunshine can and brilliance to the new day. the air was cold and the breeze

biting the tbi at the scene was as warming is a christmas card. made warmer still by her supposed tender emotion and great expect patience for new life. she remembers bill pause here, with the bundled content is near the fields and farm for the first time in view of the hills rising in the distance. welcome home the bodies that allowed. [applause] it would be carried to and that way. there is hope and it is now a new day. >> one of the things i loved about kos book is the enormous detail down to the day of the crew they had to find a pair of maternity pantyhose for honey alexander. i loved that. he did a hundred 16 something entities to get that kind of detail. as you can tell, it's rich with tension even though you know how it's going to end, which is a

writer is tough. my favorite part is the interaction between you and the author. so at this point we've got about 20 minutes left. i love to know what questions you will have. if you don't have any, i've got about 30. in the back. [inaudible] were any of them put in prison rather sell out quick >> there were 52 whose paperwork so to speak was signed on that monday night. some of them got up at night. roger humphries got out. raise your hand if you are living in tennessee in 1978. okay, good. if he didn't raise your hand, for one thing it might be hard now to realize how thoroughly democratic for one thing,

democratic or state government was at that time. the governor, one of our u.s. senators, said the congressional delegation, the legislature is heavily democratic and that's changed now. that's one reason i like to ask how long have people been living here? but to your question, there was a special arrangement for him and he got out that night. you read about in the book. he's never been heard from since. he's never been heard from since. we try to find it. [inaudible] >> no. is he still living, he is no doubt living under a different name. if i'm him, i'm living out of state somewhere and he may be dead, so we don't know. said he never was brought back. we also keep in mind and in tennessee under state

constitution, whoever the governor is, the power to pardon is absolute. it cannot be called that by any court, any prosecutor, a police officer. that's it. so probably the better answer to your question is that those 52, some like roger humphries went through that night, and maybe a little better than half did not. two nights later, when alexander became the governor all of a sudden, his first order was locked the doors. nobody gets out without my signature and we are going to subject -- we don't want to keep people any longer than they are due. but there's enough question because of the clemency for cash scandal, the investigation. so he actually called fred thompson, later u.s. senator, lawyer back from washington d.c.

and fred became a special counsel to the governor to sort this out. so these for 30 plus prisoners still in to make that determination. well, lawyers for some of those actually suit the new governor, sued the state administration and some of them got out another student. there were at least two local criminal court proceedings about that. and so, some got out in 17. >> in the middle there, lou and white shirt. we are being recorded on c-span. i forgot to tell you all that. it's very exciting. if you have a question, step to the microphone and back. >> disappointed that the supreme court here. it's not affected office. i was honored with a set of his constitutionally valid, the opinion that came down, was that

her removal from office for an early inauguration because it's really hard to figure out. i just wonder if you can add some insight on that. >> i guess they call it the negotiation, the discussion through the afternoon on that day of the two was the chapter in the book because they were back and forth about is this proper? the question was essentially about how early a new governor be sworn in and is taking an oath the same as inoculation is really in legislative observance. at the ceremony, very traditional. you also read a dispute within the attorney general's office. actually two different opinion letters that seem to contradict each other all of a sudden,

about one night at new governor elect be sworn in and what the group concluded, it was alexander and his people, lieutenant governor wilder, state attorney general bill leach and how hardened commodious attorney. that group came to the conclusion based on the best legal advice they could muster i guess, a new governor could be smart -- that a sitting governor's term in so many days are computed to be midnight on that monday, january 15, 2 nights before the coup, that's when the term ended. therefore they believed had concurred eventually that afternoon that the duly properly elected governor lights could be sworn in at any moment after that point. it's a long story and i hope you will read it.

yes. >> he stepped to the microphone. thank you. >> i'm afraid i forgot exactly how to pronounce her name, but there was one ahead of the pro-abort -- was she an important part of the story? >> she's in my story. now i have determined that book was really not so much about the corruption per se. there had been at least two earlier posts about the investigation, her role and all that. she'd been appointed chairman, the lady he's referring to have been appointed chairman of pardon patrols by governor blanton. then she was involved. she thought something was up and she was actually involved in the fbi been alerted to the

possibility that some bad stuff might be going on. a year after she was appointed, governor blanton fired her. now she is a hero not part of the story. there have been two or thereabouts. what was called marie: a true story, written by peter maas. that was the basis for a movie by the same name that appeared in the 80s. sissy spacek played marie mershon tiamat movie. and fred thompson -- not only as a lawyer in unicenter, and in the movies and there is an active part. he played himself actually. >> said it tennessean retired writer dwight lewis and former

radio, the late great judy smith. >> ray. the point i'm trying to make to your question is that having been done, the story wanted to tell the sun about the corruption, but what was done to solve the problem. i need to tell enough of this they read or 30 years later, particularly those who did not raise your hand a while ago would know how it got so crazy and by the state became necessary. >> anybody? if you can step in microphone,, thank you so much. >> governor clinton, i understand the details of rubber humphries kind. it was a horrible crime. >> put your finger in one of the real mysteries, what did clinton know and when did he know it unless he personally engaged in the decision-making about this clemency for class actions for

the remote to have happened. governor blanton was acquitted for that crime. he went to prison later, but for something else. two members of his staff went to prison because of his. it was the lawyer who was arrested with money in his pocket and the lieutenant on the highway patrol was arrested in the face. they went to prison. governor blanton did go to prison, served time for something else. there were a lot of stories about different, you know, improprieties in the plan administration and his crime for which he was convict did and served time in federal prison was extortion relating to the sale of liquor store licenses. so that was another chapter. there were other folks in the

administration who served time in prison for highway construction bid rigging. the governor's brother who interviewed for this story himself went to prison for that, served his time. so what did governor blanton now? he was acquitted for these particular crimes. i would also like to say there were lots of other people who were involved in the blanton administration who are very honorable people. this is a phenomenon that chiefly had to do with how the governor's immediate office operated. i mean, who were my friends who served with distinction to think of the late tom jackson, my friend who is commissioner of the tennessee department of tourist development, a leader in the state democratic party, very distinguished, was the commissioner when the department

of tourism is established. the commissioner of revenue served with distinction. tom benson, there's a lot of people. dervishes stuff going on and it was found out and prosecuted. >> can you make it to the -- i just kill time while she's gone by. i can toast and joe -- yes, ma'am. thank you. >> i went to high school with roger humphries. he was a couple years younger than i. i have looked him up in the annual summit at this picture many times i've never been able to remember him. however, i knew his wife very well. as they help her in the library club and she was one of the helpers. she was in the library club and

i consider myself to have been her mentor. his crime was he shot her point line and killed her. i was very disturbed when i found out that she had died and how she had died. i may save the she was involved in an affair with a younger man and he was also killed. >> said the new season. >> kinases and well, yes, in high school. >> thank you for sharing that. >> she was a lovely person. >> she was a lovely person. i met to share the bed of the rest of that story. roger humphries crime is a double murder. again in 27 years old had any season. then they divorced. a double murder.

he shot season and her friend 18 times. 18 shot. but they too derringer. you do the math. i figured the first two or three shots in all seriousness might've been a crime of passion. but if you're preloading nine times, okay. but he was pretty quickly, this is up in johnson city. he was pretty quickly apprehended, arrested, charged, tried and convict did a first-degree murder, two counts. his sentence was to serve 20 to 40 years in prison. he went to the united states prison thereupon he was seen in nashville, tennessee, literally right at the street.

maybe some of us in the room nobody smith who was the publisher for the tennessee journal, an important political weekly newsletters still published. lee smith one day in september september 1977. it's kind of a routine thing, get the newsletter of a further weekend about what it's going to come up in the next legislative session. he looks up and all of a sudden the door opens to the private office speaker in the corner's top aide jim kennedy sticks his head naman says mr. speaker, and so serve interruption, but the state photographer is here to share your passport photo. can he just come in? yet, bring about an. we'll be sitting and taking notes and he looks at. lee smith grew up in johnson city, too.

[inaudible] >> thank you. [inaudible] >> grew up, played fama baseball, whatever with richard. this is nashville downtown. he says hello, lee. immediate recognition. how you doing? i'm doing pretty good. he had been moved very soon from state prison inmate use two main prison in nashville, was given trusty status at work release. his work release assignment during the day was to work as a photographer for the state tourism department. these men is flabbergasted. he told me, back to my office, called the state direction department and said can you just

tell me about this particular prisoner and gave the name comes so forth. he said the man said he had to call him back and it gave ms. smith, all i tell you is that was done at the request of the governor's office. the governor's office. we went out -- this is just a paragraph. in his newsletter. but because we are in the state capital and capital of the press corps and everybody was onto this, what was going on the palatinate industry should do that time anyways red is and not let up sky. that led to more questions from reporters. at one point, governor blanton becomes defiant with you my word. he says i'm not says i'm not going to answer any more negative questions. if you can get away with it, that's pretty good. you can't get away with that.

a number of reporters ron that story. tara marie and the nashville. you may remember carol marine of channel four. she went on to chicago and is that they're now working for nbc. a very good reporter. she was assigned all of a sudden to pardon and parole since you because you are but his conference and ask questions. that's when he said no money could have questions. the most significant interview was alive outcast of channel fours studios. by this time blake didn't like her. but he said okay, we would do this interview, but we are going to do it live. i don't what you're editing my comments. do it live. i said okay. and the wonderful ways in which united didn't see now is having been the master of his own mystery for the architect of sun

agony was on found that live interview, he gets so worked up about this. he tells carol marine on air, i am going to pardon roger humphries. novelettes humphries got preferential treatment, like an understatement, but he is going to be part. in the fullness of time he was. >> we've got time for one more question. anybody? i have one. one of the things keel tax that in the look was ray blanton was a drinker. if you didn't get in the 10:00 in the morning, forget about it. as a member of the capitol hill press corps covering legislature. this place is saturated with reporters. it always has been. they are from all over the state, yet nobody wrote a word about the fact the governor had a drinking problem. i would leahy reflect on that. would venture to guess today is a public official had that

choice and not issue we would write about it. >> well, not only was this an extraordinary criminal case and then solution, but it was also telling about how that was a different news media environment. now we are sort of easter greeting about things like that of president kennedy's administration in the white house. so with this thing happened today as it happened then? one of the reasons they might not is because there is a new level -- think of it what you will, but there is a new higher level of scrutiny on the part of news media of public officials. another aspect is you got to remember this is between the. of writing letters and e-mail. now we just don't think anything about sending an e-mail message or social media.

whether it's instantaneous. i spoke to a group a few weeks back that attack back to my office, somebody there had posted a video on the internet. i'm glad i behaved myself. that was not meant. so i talked to reporters about this. one was rocky rawlins recalled them. remember, gail coming to see associated press in nashville and tenet the capitol hill press corps. in fact, he wrote a book about governor blanton and mcwhorter later. but about blanton, he said we didn't write that. he would start drinking at 10:00 in the morning and he would get more surly as the day wrote on. reporters told me who are constantly working on the hill that time is money went to catch antennas in the afternoon

because he might be a little less guarded and so forth. that's a good question. >> it's about time for us to wrap. i'm going to ask for a trade ibis and as we retrieve the dvd, which on a technical assistance it. thank you for your patience. it is worth waiting for. the book is "coup." the author is keel hunt. i spent a whole weekend with. i give it to my mother. she's passed it around to her assisted living. i told her, tell the people to buy the book. thank you also much for being here. [applause] the mac that is keel hunt from and discussing his book training during a 2013 festival of books. the >> theory, the third-largest in pennsylvania's open is hoping to

11 acres opinion and what headquarters of ge transportation, the areas largest employer. time warner cable recently hosted a tv has an interview with local authors and toured historical site. the >> i'm a crime historian and so this book forced me into a new discipline and those who kind of wrestle with women's history and understand discrimination, gender studies, gender was the next big haitian. in doing so i realized all the kind of studies that it had done about gender roles and gender dictation stereotypes also apply to crime and they hadn't really done in many ways he is like the models of other historians and applied them to crime. the short answer is when men are expected to be pious, domestic and maternal and what they are

intended not to violate the social norm, we get excited about it. i focus on the pennsylvania bred to kill. when you start parsing it to other states into the these, you have to expend a whole host of different fact or spirit race, ethnicity, geography, economics, all different types in a different nature and want forstmann in the southern states and communities. so i think that focusing on pennsylvania, i've got a lot to kind of see a consistent pattern of how women commit particular to crime and how society responds to it. the book deals with 18th century crimes, a lot of 19th century crimes and mostly early 20th century currents. but i do go up to contemporary periods. so few women who feel come here to the numbers of men. it's insignificant. yet we are captured by. we are tabulated by it.

we want to know what happened, what drove a mother to kill their child. so the fact that the casey anthony case captured our attention nationwide tells us something less casey and enhance it does about ourselves. that is this woman broke a social norm. she didn't just break the law. she broken social norm and seem to violate a social norm in this case. that's true of women all across the board. anytime a woman kills, it is shocking to us because we have very standard stereotypes of what a woman is supposed to be. in the 19th century, a woman was supposed to be quiet, d. müller, pious, pure, domestic and maternal, kind of a fragile vessel. so when a woman kills, and that violates the social norm is significant then we are shocked by and that shot captures our

attention. they're also curious what went wrong and what kind of circumstance compelled a woman to do that. i think my book works less on why women killen traced to vendors and that is all very good. it's a kind of focus on the fact we are curious about it and that told us more about us and society and our gender stereotypes and gender expectations than it does about women. i actually had her up and down the shaft to kind of stereotypes, stereotypes of women who have committed these crimes from the sadat dressed to the blonde bombshell to the which. the accusations of witchcraft. we have kind of the evil step mother. pay particular attention to remember below within it are beset by her to reset daughter in erie, pennsylvania. what is curious about that

particular case issue was a woman who thought this little girl go up in flames in the media coverage at the time described it as the grieving mother having witnessed the death of her daughter. when the media found out that she was stepmother, then they began to cast her as evil as a mother, the torch killer the 1930s and begin to then cast doubt on the one innocent. the fact that we were able to the counter is the grieving mother and twisted to an evil stepmother so quickly without all the evidence being heard tells us again about her stereotypes of american society. one of the cases are covered as the story of hiring shorter. i read schroeder was a woman, she was working as a waitress in west virginia, but basically an average common life.

she fell in love with a married man by the name of walter clinton date. together for whatever perhaps because of the great depression, she had walter clinton date went on a series of robberies in west virginia, ohio and southwest considering it. isn't that the sense of being in your out there, pennsylvania didn't chorus of one of the robberies, she murdered pennsylvania state trooper, shot him dead right there on the road. walter clinton date, i read schroeder at her side of the flood. this is a woman who's caring for her child in the course of robberies and now having just murdered a feature her. she fled back to her parents home and unfortunately in the quarters of their flight little donny who was years old testified he basically spilled

the beans on his mother unwittingly on the hunt was on. i read schroeder then slide out of pennsylvania and west virginia admitted the way to the southwest. near st. louis missouri they got another gunfight and shot another police officer. they weren't ultimately captured until they were in arizona. so they were caught aaron brought back. i read schroeder was tried, can it be incentives to dive for her involved in this robberies and in the murder of the pennsylvania state trooper. she's the first woman to be executed in pennsylvania history. her story is important and at least from my goodness book as she was consistently portrayed not according to her feet and her scale and smarts, but she was always consistently

described as the blonde bombshell, this beautiful bat woman. she was portrayed by her look. male killers are never portrayed according to their books. she is this gorgeous killer. she uses beautiful woman who has an iron heart. ..