>> watch this and other programs online at td.work. >> up next, afterwards with guest host leslie sanchez, former director of the white house education initiative. this week, u.s. representative luis gutierrez and his memoir, "still dreaming: my journey from the barrio to capitol hill." the 10 turn democratic commerce and from chicago discusses his journey from cab driver to community organizer, to begin the charge for immigration reform in the u.s. house of representatives. the program is about an hour. >> congressman, good to see you. let's have a conversation. a liberal or conservative. i think we share about from puerto rico. we're both committed committed to immigration reform. i found the book fascinating as great storytelling. have a great sense of humor. are some fantastic and it is here and i recommend everyone

they should read this book. pitino, non-latino, a fabulous book. as i read it, two words came to mind. identity and empowerment, two words that describe luis gutierrez. a commitment to your roots for your puerto rican identity. it's a fair assessment of who you are quite >> yeah, i think we try to describe for the reader, what is it that luis gutierrez has a vocation for immigrants and immigration reform. why has he made that a priority? is to read the book on the begin to understand my mom and dad left nothing in puerto rico. they had nothing. they had no future. they've gone to grade school and then they came to america without a coat, without language, with nothing except as

immigrants continue to come to the country. now they came to citizens. they came in 52. in new york 60 years ago the headlines in new york city pregnant users. how do we stop them from coming to new york? at their criminals, that they didn't speak the language they wanted to get on welfare. how many times have we heard the same descriptions of endocrine today? so i saw my parents then. i wanted to inform people about how it is that i brought up. i remember -- i was born and 53. i was 10 years before the civil rights act. chicago was a segregated city. the police are hostile to us. they want there to serve and protect. they were much but likely to picture up against ron ask you what you are doing. you are always a suspect in your own neighborhood, number one. but moreover, their beaches and

swimming pools in schools and neighborhoods that are inaccessible to you because they were for whites only. so i just want to warn people that have been going to puerto rico brought a sudden i'm not puerto rican anymore. >> host: to understand your point of view, we have see her childhood growing up in puerto rican linkin park. and then when you're 15, you're dead toasty sun, we are puerto rico. this is what she said about it i think now moving wasn't a choice for my dad. it was an obligation. were my parents sick of english-language? who is the gang sunrise. it was time to go to puerto rico. so you're just what you're going to puerto rico at 16. you leaving your friends, everything you knew and go to a place you've heard about. but she were born in chicago.

how is that experience? >> first of all, i grew up in a puerto rican household. what do by bilingual? my parents spoke in spanish and i responded in an push. they understood my english. i understood their spanish. so i was never equipped to go to puerto rico. this is my dad and mom stream, ray? it was their goal. i dad didn't call family meetings to discuss the future. he did what you were told. it wasn't hard. but you know what, as i describe in the book. later on, think about what it was like for my mom and dad. they came to america. they had two teenagers, my sister and i. they saw gangs, they saw drugs. they are deeply devout catholics. what did they see? they saw john f. kennedy. we we had a picture john f. kennedy. and so we had a picture john f.

kennedy. they saw him murdered and then i saw another good catholic, robert f. kennedy. they saw hippies in the movement and drugs. it was such a time in the united states when martin luther king was assassinated, and they saw the national guard on our streets in the city of chicago. i think my dad time is that it's time to go back to the mountains of puerto rico, a place that is safer so i can finish up raising the children. >> the most interesting thing is because you grow up in a puerto rican neighborhood companies thought of yourself as puerto rican. but then they see you as american. there's a great hurry here. your class. he got attacked talk to this girl and you introduce yourself and she says the inside the gringo is bothering me. pushy talking about me?

all of a sudden you go to puerto rico in puerto rico in 90 where the gringo. how do you deal with that? >> guest: it was very, very difficult. it was a very painful time. i used to think that adolescent was the science of pain. [speaking in spanish] pain and science. over the two words. it's about growing. but it's a very painful time. it's a painful time for all of us and to be admin to be isolated. you know what i also write about the weeds, my friends and how they took an interest in me. people came up to me from the independence movement and said he just came back from exile, son. there started the puerto rican fiasco. welcome home. that was a very, very important time in my life.

i learned spanish. i was a spanish emergent. you and i understand that in 1969, as we talked about earlier, the mountains is much more tradition of puerto rico in puerto rican and informs us more about who we are and the beaches. we are not a country -- it's about culture, whereas coffee and sugar cane, were the lifeblood. so when i get there, i see sugarcane and i see fields i see fields and icy coffee growth agriculture. i said i've got to learn the language. the interesting thing i describe in the book to is that it's heartening in chicago is one

social class. you are a puerto rican. there is an upper class, middle class and lower class. the puerto rican class was in the of chicago. they drove a cab or worked in a factory or wash dishes. you're all working class people. i realize social class and social structure of the kind of x-division-sign made with the color of your skin and your income in who you are. i tried to describe some of that. >> the unity you saw the state not necessarily with bair. >> let's say the greatest guy in my neighborhood, the entrepreneur, the top guy on the local grocery store. he probably was wealthy in comparison to the rest of us. we know you have more money because he always had what i

discounter? , chicha in credit that day and how much she owed. he was an institution. i never remember him charging credit. what he did as he kept u.s. as a client. the bodega was a little part of puerto rico and the united state. every now and then they would show. >> when you go to places like that. in puerto rico, i read the book warrior political conscience awakes. to become involved with an independent puerto rican meal. what was it about independence party, which was a minority party. they were the party in power, and supports the current political status. what was said about the independence party that excited

you? migs to get politically involved? >> two things. number one, remember [speaking in spanish] its life in 68. it is still a fire in the belly. puerto rican independence has never gained more than 4%, 5%. they were doctors, dentists, lawyers, architects. many men and women of industry and commerce. they were everywhere. i looked at them. they were important women and men. so i listen to them. plus they didn't call me gringo. they saw a fellow puerto rican that had been exiled as part of the colonial status of the 90s

states to my parents and hundreds of thousands of other puerto ricans to try to find a better future because the island did not sustain any growth. so i like to say you had to be bair to see that young man. he could take an extended metaphor and drill it into the speech. so lastly maybe it could be an education. if you have a son who asks you for political rice, maybe that's exactly where it's going as i related the book. >> before we continue with your political career, there's something that struck me about the book which says a lot about you and your work ethic, where certainly comes from your father. he starts a restaurant, didn't

go very well. but after that, he went to college. after college you are always working to a point where you then started driving a cab because he needed to make money to go back to puerto rico to meet up with your future wife. and it seems to me from reading the book any say one point he felt that it was important as a puerto rican to show you are hard-working, that puerto ricans have a good work ethic because there are many still today that like to use recess of immigrants saying they are lazy, are on welfare. but you always work. >> guest: i was always working. you know, when i told the story of my dad and his restaurant, as many times as you relating

callback, you become saddened to think they work so hard, saving all that money to have his restaurant, to have this beautiful place. my dad never even gave it a name, never even gave it a name. but he worked so hard. i can only imagine how it disillusioned he must have been, how heartbroken he must've been. but he persevered and continued forward. look, i understand there is a time when you need the government. i don't question. i don't judge people if they come on hard times. i think there is a role. i've always felt i've always strived that every part of my life, so here i am, in chicago, i am married. it's 1977. i have my bachelors degree. i'm latino. you think they'd be looking for young, bright, articulate people like me to come work for your firm eircom me.

no one. one application after another. so i thought to myself, i did this in college. i drove a cab. i have to tell you, it was hard because i was driving a cab, had so many plans, i remember when i went back to see my dad for christmas and he said after all of the effort and all at the expense, for you to wind up doing exactly what i did. tickets on the dad, i have to work. i have to keep my self-respect and dignity. i have to work on this is something that puts food and pays the rest. having said that, it's good for me. right now, everyday, all over the world lawyers, doctors are driving a cab because they have to do it. >> host: they are the assistant to the assistant in the medical office when they have a degree, a medical degree.

they are a legal aid, right? some paralegal when they were a lawyer. i mean, this happens, but they work their way back. but i think it's a story of america to tell you the truth. sometimes i look at the immigrant community on notice that they don't want to repeat i said are you kidding? they get one job many times in the greatest think one of my going to do for the next eight hours? maybe i need a second job. they're always looking for ways to advance economically. >> host: the political interest as they are. commitment to the community. something happens when you get back. you married the love of your life. >> 85. congratulations, fantastic. at that time, you move back to chicago, just like your parents did, looking for a better future. you are not necessary at that time thinking you'd be involved politically. but something happened to make you think i have to get

involved. can you describe what happens? the mac i think it is very important, for a moment in my life. we would not be having this conversation at not been for that. in chicago there was an election for mayor in 1983. jane byrne, incumbent, richard daley, son of mayor daley, states attorney dayside. harold washington, who is a freshman member of congress is compelled by a community to run for mayor and he wins the democratic nomination. they called it subsequently beirut on the lake. he wins the nomination and on my door comes knocking, official sudan rostenkowski. then dan rostenkowski as the congressman, also the chairman of the ways and means committee,

probably the committee. he's a counselor to democratic presidents, right-click an image of the democratic caucus comes to supporting the republican nominee under the theme before it's too late. and i'm sitting there in my home, listening to these guys ask me to be a bigot, to be a racist, to somehow be prejudice. i said no, he won the democratic nomination here in the democratic party. all of the white democratic parties should be ashamed of himself. they did not own a black man to be mayor of the city of chicago. it said the lights would come on it night, the garbage would be picked. there would be chaos and pandemonium under this theme before it too late. they came to chicago to campaign for them. they were vicious remote when

they visited a church on a sunday. so i just like it think of a time in which the city was, so i stood up. it was a beautiful time in my life. we've just gotten our first house. we used to watch this whole does and how they stand at their floors and we finished the woodwork, how you did a little drywalling, how you regretted your bathroom. they were happy. becomes how to play dominoes with my friend. i had a job. i was happy. you know, a birthday party here, back to the mayor, a wedding and your life is complete. we also played at ucla is in our front yard to keep up with all of her neighbors. but then they knocked on my door and i said you know what, maybe i'm going to have a few less dominoes on weekends and water the sail is a little less. i need to get involved

politically. the next year renegade dance rostenkowski, god the peer >> for recommending and quick >> at the 24% of the vote. we can underestimate it. you are taking the chicago democratic political machine, supporting here in washington and challenging. congressmen were going to have to cut it short because you were called to a vote. you decided to take dan rostenkowski as a political machine in chicago. i'm sure they're not happy with you. how was that? >> guest: number one, i was very angry and disillusioned. but at the same time, very

motivated with a high level of spirit to say we the democratic party doesn't use race as a barometer. i kept thinking of martin luther king, you know, and how people were going to be judged by the content of the character of the color of their skin. get in chicago in 1983, we are still judging people on the color of their skin and the democratic party. the incredible thing is you decide to fight them. >> guest: at night and 83, with thousands of volunteers, like the young people who'd grown up in the 60s and 70s and are ready for change. and at the same time, he was inspiring. he inspired me. 280 to 220. then it ran against rostenkowski for committeemen. i thought i just have to

replicate this in 50 more precincts. it wasn't quite that way. i got 24% of the vote. i want the public to understand. the last election on november wasn't always that way. i got 24% of the vote. i want to -underscore come after one of my neighbors on the block i lived on how to dan rostenkowski in their window. and that's when you really start getting a reputation as somebody who stands for principle. you were even willing to go against her own party in the machine if you believe in what you're doing. >> guest: it was the right decision to make. harold washington after that campaign invites me to come and join his administration if he becomes a mentor. i mean, we get to me, we get to talk. just think, kids like me. i am 30 years old, sitting down

with the mayor of the city of chicago. he's mentoring me, teaching me. he gives me a job. the responsibilities i have. and my story is not unique. there were hundreds of other young men in women. he opened it up for women,, latinos and for black people to finally have positions of responsibility. ali asked of us was to do a good job and make sure everyone, regardless of the color of their skin or what neighborhood they live in chicago got a fair and square deal. >> he didn't control the city. he asks you to run to see if he could control the city council. you basically deliver. >> guest: i won. i wanted the city council thursday team members. 25 to 25 is a tie. guess who breaks the tie?

american city of chicago because he's the presiding officer. i was the 25th vote. once i become the 25th vote, the commissioner on the board of education and the commission on economic development, all of those things open. and then he gets his appointees. by then he gets a budget that's his budget. we can help with housing and streets and curbs and gutters and bridges and begin infrastructure. i loved working as an alderman, but i do have to say one thing. i had a lot less power and influence than i did as a member of his inner circle, working in its administrative assistant. the executive branch of government with a lot of influence. >> host: i was washington so important to you died unexpectedly in his office and everything goes back to what it was before. what was that moment for you?

>> guest: to say that i cried is an understatement, the sadness that i felt. i was really certain whether i wanted to stay in politics even by just gotten a lot dead, could say what for. my leader died. i ran for committeemen a few months. i was lucky because my wife and i went in november about three weeks before he died of a heart attack and my bosses. and we told them that we were going to name our son harold as if i was a boy, were going to name her daughter herald. he passed away knowing that. that's how much my wife and i thought of him, that we would name our next child if it was a bully. we had a girl. so her name is jessica washington. his middle name. and jessica is so proud because

later in her life, she said that, i researched it. thank you. what a great venue named me after my middle name. so that was the kind of experience. he passed away the city council really fell apart. and then in 1989, had to make a decision about my future. i wanted to come to congress. i wanted to continue to work. there was an election. rich daley, still state attorney is going to run. but no longer is there an inspirational figure of harold washington. we sat down, we talked. i endorse them. as i read the book, just wanted to be another politician endorsing the way political establishment. they said you want me to endorse you? here's a set of agreements we need to meet. he expanded the number of commissioners, actual members of his cabinet to six. he did many things.

>> is really essential at getting rich daley. >> guest: they thought it was pretty important to have the guy that stood out there for change and for reform that was with harold washington to say that he could bring. because what does the city council want and 89 after work? they wanted peace, they wanted tranquility, the one at a council that work together and start fighting one another. since i was one of the figures there was a sighting figure. >> host: to begin a site with a bible and controversial figure. now they're actually seeking you out. >> guest: is wonderful because i got to negotiate with who would become the secretary of commerce, his brother. bill daly then was the mayor's brother and chief of staff to the president. i got to meet a lot of different people unlearn a lot of viable lessons. one of the things that that was important was to expand the right of the people in the city

of chicago. we did many of those things. i know we did many of those things. and 92. a copy of the did in 91. in 92 i ran for congress and he supported me. it is critical, almost essential at what day. >> guest: you could make a difference for the latino. at the national level. i knew that if i was going to do that. now i'm elected. the north american free trade agreement. he's in charge of negotiating a? bill daly, the mayor's brother whose cochairman of my campaign. who wants me to vote for a? said they do so much. we are working together. i need you to vote. i thought it was the wrong thing to do. they say he was good to you and supported you.

i believe what i believe is correct, especially major policy. >> host: in typical fashion he said have not here just to be part of the club. i'm here to make a difference. people were clamoring for congressional reform. they were pressing clinton at the time imposed pay freeze. they include members of congress. this is an issue of equity. so i'm going to introduce legislation to freeze the salaries of members of congress and the members of congress didn't like that. >> guest: one of them came the two men as a whichever stick your hand in my pocket again. remember, democrats run the majority. as a freshman member. but i just thought coming here's the scene. the president gives his first state of the union address. the budget, time for austerity, control the budget spending.

he says applaud. i'm saying, that's good. i'm getting a pay freeze, too. i was going to get my and no cost-of-living increase and we were going to be exempt. so i did was try to be prepared. we still right here at national airports in their assigned a set reserved for members of congress. it was a time. let me just say this, two years later democrats were thrown out of the majority and the revolution. many of the things they used against democrats for the same things. >> host: i think he would've been a darling of the tea party at that time. >> guest: i would have, but not today. >> host: so however, in your district, your district starts becoming more diverse. to get a larger mexican community that is growing them in your office come in your

district office you start getting more questions about immigration issues. this is something near and dear to my heart because they serve as chief of citizenship for the push of and just helping citizens, prospective citizens is something wonderful. you mentioned how every american should go out east wind to understand what america is all about. ..

we expanded that across the country. many members of congress to this day continue to do that. 50,000 in my district. wanted to leave a legacy of power, of new people in power regardless of who the congressman is. i just think that to walk into a citizenship ceremony callous a 150 people walking to become citizens. you know what, there have been times that 80, 90, 100 different countries. so these people, 150 citizens of 80, 90 different countries with a walk-in. when the walkout their citizens of one country, the united states of america. so i saw my district of the knees in my district. responded, and then i saw the need to fix the broken immigration system that so many people were trying to find legal waste to get their wives of the second legal ways to get their

son, legal ways to bring their parents, and there were also down. i said, it is time to reform the system. that is what i have committed and dedicated my life to congress. >> we have a dysfunctional system. i have never been a fan of barack obama. however, when he got elected the first time, i was encouraged that he had promised our latino community that he was going to deal with immigration reform the first year. i said, great. let's get this done. but a year passed, and nothing happened. and we were very frustrated. he made it very clear. i remember our friend jorge ramos telling him in his bid for reelection, you know, you made a promise, and a promise is a promise. >> headed you feel? >> well, first of all, i sat down with barack obama when he was a freshman senator and still remember in his office dec.

i'm going to lie on vacation for christmas. it's tradition. right come back and back to decide whether a going to run for president of the united states. i talked to him and said, you already decided that. you have decided that. he said, will you support me. i could think about it, the only latino that he could ever get to endorse his candidacy. i was from chicago, well established across the country. added that asking for an ambassadorship. added not asking to be co-chair of his campaign. added casting for a prime spot at the democratic convention. aston to support comprehensive immigration format to get it done in his first year when he was elected president. he we made that commitment to mob on the public policy. we were friends, but he made a bond of public policy. not on political stuff, but public policy.

i took this position straight to the white house, thousands of them. people saying we need to take action. look, he did not take action first year. this is not my opinion. this is a universal opinion about those in the latino community, in the immigrant community even broader. what compounded the problem was that it went up. he told us that he is going to a prioritized. he was going to deport only criminals. >> and he had promised it. >> and in the meeting he does you, talk about this. approached him after the meeting at the white house. tell them, a good meeting,

mr. president. and he says to you, so, why don't you get off my back. >> that's what he said to me. president obama many times sees things through a very personal lens. and he does not see them from the public policy perspective. and he sees, as i write in the book, we got to talk about it. he sees a criticism of him as a way of you fostering a great reputation for yourself. that is, it is at his expense that you have gained. i never saw it that way. i think in the buck is a reflection. if you have power, if you have influence, if you have a seat at the table and you don't use that power and influence, if you in that great -- the greatest thing is to wasted. what do i have to lose?

i mean, i'm a kid. parents came here with nothing to muscle a public on the hallway and a partner in chicago. the most important thing to let the ways their virginity to use the power and influence felt wasted. i think barack obama is a better president of the netting states because of our criticism. for two years that relate an immediate the white house.

>> deferred action. those kids who came into the as states. he had the discretion, but he kept saying, and he said it publicly. >> hollywood stars to go out there and say, oh, the president can do this. when he got tired of hanging around with that, he did it. and the validated that authority as well. our community embraced it. the first day, half a million people. a month before his trial of the election, and working hard. on watching the tv card shows. in spanish, impeccable spanish by the way, saying i did this press editorial discretion does

the values i saw in the young immigrant youths, the values that life and i can and still not dollars. in the bouquet. and i said, we have turned this around. >> at the end, and i hope that we can do immigration reform of congress. you know i am a conservative. very critical. some of the positions that they have taken and immigration which i think anti-immigrant, and i am still working hard to open up the party to go back to the principles are reagan defended and george w. bush defended based upon compassion and free-market, but at the end i think if we got immigration reform is going to be good work, good democrats and good republicans in congress frankly, i have to say, not because a

barack obama. he did admit his promise demand that think -- >> even after the election, after the election because at this point he still talks. you told them, you know what -- >> we relate in the buck. >> so toxic that he may not help the process. i think at the very end if we get immigration reform, it's not even going to be because of the politicians but the latino community. and the message, i think, both parties. so for republicans to get there act together and immigration but for democrats to deliver. >> as you know, we relate in the book this last january we met with the president monday said to him, mr. president, when area going to las vegas, don't introduce a bill. we are working with republicans. this is to be republicans and democrats in the house in the senate. we don't need a bill from the white house to call on down to say this is one of want.

it's a very delicate time. turnaround elected us. remember this. the anger in his face. he says, are you kidding? after all your complaining, after all your demanding that i take more action, now you're asking me not said introduce a bill. he was right to buy to his credit, he did not introduce the bill. to his credit he works to formulate and uses power and influence in the background and has done that effectively. i still remember the one word that the use, right. he said, weren't subtle about it either. you know it is interesting to be at the white house with the president of the united states the six are seven other people. you were not settled. you know what i thought, yeah, mr. president, not sell either. it's devastating uncoupling to families. so maybe we have not been settled, but we have been forthright with you. the fact that i think he is a better president of the united

states because of the actions he took comedic and forcefully and you cannot deny, latina's came out and voted for him in droves. so there wasn't -- a great. testy, disillusioned, but once he took a step in the right direction, obviously helped by the fact that mitt romney does not help himself by saying he was first of deportation, but he would veto the dramatic and that we we simply at arizona to the 70's. was he benefited by that yes. was he continued to be benefited by that? look, i have an issue with barack obamanomics on immigration. as i spoke to you earlier, there are 200 people there. sunlight. there would not go for it. we are going to work together to fix this country. in the end barack obama's legacy will be that he does sign a comprehensive discussion reform.

>> here is what happened. the government of the united states is dysfunctional because everybody lows by partisanship. but when paul ryan and i get together in chicago and speak together about our commitments for pathway to citizenship, transform an assistant, everybody that lauded that is not applauding it. they were either ignoring it. and i get to the democratic country. wired with paul ryan, the enemy. he is a friend on this issue. you know, he has received a lot of criticism from the republican party for standing up. and they have spent hundreds of thousand dollars in negative ads against this. so, look, how are we going to get this done? of going to say this, democrats have to understand because democrats negotiate now. we are not in the majority. we were in the majority until 07, 08, 09, and ten. we did not pass comprehensive.

we have to stop doing that. >> but republicans, and let me be very clear, have to understand also, they lost the referendum on this issue in november. they lost it. so you lost the referendum. we are in the minority. let's negotiate. let's compromise. >> in this very important for everyone, our viewers to understand immigration reform is not dead. they continue. >> the complications continue. look perry just because we're not a gang of eight, we are meeting regularly. people are talking and having conversations every day. we are going to get this done. but from my perspective, as you see reflected, i believe in movement. i believe in our people. why? and so this is an undeniable quest for justice. you can delay it. you can give detours. you cannot stop the ultimate achievement of a comprehensive

immigration reform because the more you deny it the more energy there will be in the community. >> we are running at a time. we just have a couple of minutes. for shows to cover your life. but i wanted to ask you about the political stuff. it would require like to and shows. so i just want to finish with something that you say in the last chapter of the book. in a recent speech you gave you said at the end it is a story of my life. to pull reconfirm erica and to american for pr. perhaps it's different. perhaps your fully american and fully porter rican, and there is no contradiction, just like many immigrants take that. they don't stop being mexican. they continue with the culture. the traditions, but they're awfully american. >> i tried to relate that because when i go to puerto rico, especially the state, oh, why you getting involved. you are agreeing go. you are an american. when i go there and to american

to reporter rican. and i come here, walking to work one day, i was told that many parisians, what you go back where you came from? i have heard that. that is a single statement that too many poor regions of heard. to many party ricans have died, a valiant and courageous, defended this nation, the united states of america, and get poorer regions are still seeing, although we have been citizens since 1917, it will be 100 years. there will still toss to go back or we came from. people need to understand, they are thinking go back to is the corner of allstate and willow. that is where i came from. >> congressman, a great book. i highly recommend it. let's continue to work. let's make sure that democrats and republicans beat immigration reform this year. >> we will do it. >> thank you. >> that was book tv signature

program in which authors of the lettuce nonfiction books are interviewed by journalists, public policy makers, legislators, and others familiar with their material. airing every weekend on book tv at 10:00 p.m. on saturday, 12 and 9:00 p.m. on sunday, and 12:00 a.m. on monday. you can also watch online. go to booktv.org and click on afterwards and the book tv series and topics list on the upper right side of the page. >> there are several colleges in erie, pennsylvania. the most recent stop on that book tv cities tour including penn state erie, gaining university, and lake erie college of osteopathic medicine. >> to look at what liberals did to cause their own decline. liberalism is a slippery greed. you find its roots deep in the american past. i think you look at sort of

thomas jefferson seen as the godfather, the progenitor of american liberalism, not to social egalitarianism, but a sense of equal opportunity for all americans. and if you want to a boil what liberalism means coming it would mean, you know, a sense that they did america, one at its best is one in which there is mass social equality and mass economic opportunity. and her to the 19 century it was seen at how to achieve those goals on social equality and economic of rigidity was to keep this a small. 18th-century liberals saw the enemy of liberty, the energy to the enemy of opportunity was a minor key. so in this state was seen him as a rival, as the enemy of these things.

by nearly 20th-century industrialization, urbanization is rapidly changed in the united states. slowly liberals begin to understand that to achieve these jeffersonian ns of equality and opportunity they need to pursue them through what they call hamiltonian means meaning big government. i would argue that is not a contradiction. in 18th-century libor -- liberals opposed government because we when you said government to them, that meant monarchy. and so by the 20th century when they start using hamiltonian as in alexander hamilton, big government, government does not mean monarchy. and so jefferson and other liberals were never opposed to government and of itself. there were opposed to the lead aristocracy monarchy. so liberals, changes in the 20th-century comment means change. you going to achieve social equality, economic opportunity

through using federal actors. when we talk about federal activism and an executive-led federal government looking for problems to solve, not just solving problems that come to the door of the white house, i mean, this emanates from the new deal which was in response to the emergence of the great depression. and obviously 30 years later john kennedy comes to the white house. and so the pressing problem for american liberalism at that time and for john kennedy was to update liberalism for an age of florence. it was no longer the immediate postwar era. and so liberalism by the early 1960's was still pointed at the problem of depression and the immediate postwar era. and so kennedy's major task was to up date decreed to deal with

a society of the affluence, and this is kiddies' task. and it is the liberal project of the early 1960's. how do you up state liberalism when you don't have a depression. the wilderness euros -- wilderness years really 1965, 19663 the age of reagan, liberals lost faith in the american project. that is just. and it is understandable. the civil rights era, watching your own countrymen and women beat african americans in this tree in the civil rights activists in the street and watching on television the wars of vietnam war that lyndon johnson himself never wanted the american people never wanted. i mean, those two seminal events

so enraged liberals. understandably so. they began to question the basics of fairness and decency of their own country. i argue that american liberalism , american liberals, some, not all, began to have a more radical critique in american society than what franklin roosevelt had or john kennedy had. instead of, you know, piecemeal reform the, you know, they want more radical approaches to change america for the better. and so when mill america feels that there country is being demeaned and attacked in their own values, being demean been attacked by -- well, the term is appropriate, liberal elites, meaning upper-middle-class, educated, higher-income levels to take over the democratic party l.a. 60's, the term liberal elites has been eased

and is used as a weight to pillory liberals, but there is choose to it at the same time. middle american voters who have heretofore been the rank-and-file of the democratic party, they turn against their own party and leave their party because their party took on a different tone toward their country and toward jimmy carter, you know, look, who does not plug and admire. the greatest ex-president in american history. jimmy carter came into office, would argue wholly unprepared. one-term governor of georgia for the extraordinary burdens of the presidency. probably even more important than that, the civil war going on the democratic party. and jimmy carter, i think you can argue, a new democrat meaning of bill clinton sort of democrat before there was an

institutional structure. and it just goes to show the one person cannot change a party. you need institutions. you need to have allies. the democratic party was the war in the late 1970's. it was the old style true believers who were claim we lose elections because we are not liberal enough verses jimmy carter and a scattering. they understood somehow that the democratic party had lost its finger on the pulse of the american people. and so carter, and i have a chapter on the welfare reform. welfare was incredibly unpopular as a program across the country. carter understood that and wanted to reform it. this is something the bill clinton does in 1994. he was lauded for it. carter wanted to perform welfare, then -- democrats controlled congress.

does not even get out of committee. it is partially part of his inability to deal with congress, but it also shows the of the democratic party fundamentally divided. it was in the democratic party's interest to reform welfare, support is on president. jimmy carter's bill that he introduced on national television was one of the major hallmarks of the '76 campaign, it never even saw -- it never even got about. it is a revelation that liberals did not have the ability to reform themselves. the low point when reagan comes into office. liberals just cannot begin to understand how a country of roosevelt and kennedy could have elected ronald reagan. on one hand it reinforces, reemphasize is their alienation from their own country in believing that americans are no

longer capable of embracing these ideas of social equality and economic opportunity and social justice. so, you know, the idea of reagan in the white house just sends them into fits of yuri. at the same time you have midwestern and southern democrats who look at the reagan revolution. they take the really hard steps of understanding that american liberals have lost the pulse of metal america. what they do is they build an infrastructure the set of ideas among moderate liberal ideas peccary take the center of imprint politics. as for the last couple of chapters are all about, the rise of democratic leaders, the rise of bill clinton. this did not just happen. there were a decade of institution building that went

into building policy of this, building an apparatus so that these moderate liberals, they're not just moderates. they're moderate liberals pemmican take there party back from what are called new politics liberals, the upper middle class highly educated liberals here take a more radical critique of american society. clinton is an interesting figure because he is from arkansas, middle america. in his get he understands the sword of democrats the democrats need to win in order to govern. at the same time, this is someone who had an elite education, who worked on the mcgovern campaign himself. clinton has a foot in both worlds, right? sort of the new politics liberal world and a foot in the moderate democratic council world. and so the first couple of years of the clinton administration, i mean aside from the few policy successes, like his first budget which reduces the deficit which plays is to give your role in

the booming economy in the 1990's, it was a fiasco. the new politics of clinton who governed. it was the new politics liberals who, you know, it drops the bureaucracy of the white house and the west wing. and so clinton loses the congress, but for the first time since the 1950's republicans take control. there was a longer -- stronger forces a work, especially in the south to cause that, but clinton's first two years, you know, or just a disaster. and what he learned -- and this is to his credit, he did this in arkansas. his first, you know -- it was a 2-year term of governor of arkansas until the gains the constitution. is first term as governor he did not govern as a moderate

democrat. he governed as a new politics liberal. and they voted him out. and so what he learned after 1994 is to go back to his roots, you know, to intentionally, you know, govern as a moderate democrat. and there is just no accidents that with the clinton governing, what he called the vital center, which had a different meeting, according to arthur schlesinger, and it does. when clinton into it, this sort of -- most americans, for a modicum of liberal and social security, medicare, programs, most americans -- and you see this in your results. most americans want these programs. even the republicans start to go after them, even republican voters, you know, sort of rise up and the purchase. and so, you know, once clinton gets through those first two years he governs as a moderate.

and you know, especially it and the domestics. it is a lawyer's the successful presidency and one that has the promise to end the national debt. he and newt gingrich had a secret deal at one time about how to sort of, you know, get rid of the national debt and just began to end the wars that were plaguing washington to this day. i mean, liberalism, i would argue, is in the best position it has been since the kennedy era because of the institutions and because the opposition is so absolutely just -- they don't understand that the american people, generally speaking are not interested in their solutions. they talk about ronald reagan in 2013 exactly like democrats talked about franklin roosevelt in 1980. the problem is, is not 1980 any

more. the democrats in 1980, it's no wonder 1936. you know. and so they're stuck in the past . they're looking to a political idol and a set of political answers that answered questions from another generation. and so, you know, i have put my money on liberals because they are the ones to buy them and not have all of the right answers, there are looking at the right questions. they live in 2015. conservatives are living in the 1930's. >> for more affirmation on the recent visit by book tv to the erie, pennsylvania, and the many other cities visited by our local content vehicles, go to c-span.org / local content. >> jim rogers sat down with book tv to talk about his latest book , street smarts. in the book mr. rogers talks about his life as a