but you didn't get the neighbor's farm. if you accused someone of witchcraft, you're not going to get their farm, so don't do it. [laughter] yes? >> you mentioned the evidence was not in the traditional way or traditionally good evidence and yet the court used it. how did they get away with it? >> well, this is before, but the fact -- the unusual thing about salem's case was that there were these convulsing witnesses who were presumably tortured by invisible entities or the witch's invisible spirit departing from her or his amenities from the witch's body, and your soul steps out and smacks someone around and steps back in again is the idea, and the fact that the afflicted were

corroborating each other was the evidence that they finally figure out could not be trusted, even though at the very beginning one of the accused, and nurse and the others pointed out, that in the bible there's a spirit that is raised by a medium who shouldn't be doing it, of the prophet, samuel, and this was not a really one. this was not really samuel, therefore the devil can fake even the shape of a good perp so you can't trust them, but they were not listening to that, even at the beginning. [laughter] >> of the six women, who was your favorite to write? >> hardest to sympathize with ann, and well, as i said to

someone the other day, bridget could be cranky, and i could relate to that. [laughter] thank you. >> all right, thank you so much. >> thank you, all. [applause] >> as a young child, there was

segregation and racial discrimination, and i didn't like it. ask my mother, my father, my grandparents, my great grandparents, why racial discrime sages, and they would say, that's the way it is. don't get in trouble. don't get in the way. in 19 # 55 when he was in 10th grade, 15 years old, i heard of rosa parks. i heard the voice of martin luther king, jr. on the old radio, and the words of dr. king inspired me to find a way to get in the way. 19 # 56 with my brothers and sisters and first cousins, we went down to the public library in the town of troy, alabama trying to get library cards, trying to check some books out, and we were told by the librarians that the libraries were for whites only and not for colors, but on july 5 #th, 1998,

i went back to the library in troy, alabama for a book signing of my book, "walking with the wind," and hundreds of black and white citizens showed up, and they gave me a library card. [applause] "walking with the wind" is a book of faith, hope, and courage. it's not just my story. it is the story of hundreds and thousands and countless men and women, blacks and whites, who put their body on the line in a difficult period in the history of our country to end segregation and to end racial discrimination. >> no need to register to join the club, just read the book and post thoughts on our book club chat room, booktv.org/bookclub.

>> i saw firsthand the tragedies that children face when they're not cared for by loving parents. it was in the sheriff's office where i first witnessed the horrors of child sex trafficking, and it convinced me that we needed to do more to protect our youth at risk of abuse. >> like me and many other youth in the care, we become accustomed to be isolated much like the victims of domestic violence by adapting to moves from home to home allowing us to easily adapt when traffickers move us multiple times from hotel to hotel, city to city, and/or state had to state, and exploiters go without fear of punishment due to the lack of attention when young people from this population go missing. no one looks for us. i really want to make this

clear, no one looks for us. >> when they hear the term "child sex trafficking," americans think it only happens in other countries or that foreign children are brought here to be sold in large cities. in fact, we have learned that most of the victims of child sex trafficking are american kids who are trafficked in small towns and large urban areas. if people are not aware of it, they are not looking for it. >> this weekend on c-span, house ways and means looks at changing foster care systems to prevent sex trafficking. this morning at ten eastern on c-span2, spend two days in austin live at the texas book festival with panels commemorating the 50th anniversary of jfk's assassination today and sunday on booktv. on american history tv, in a country deeply divided, how did lincoln resolve the political and moral dilemmas created by the issue of slavery sunday evening at 7:30.

>> authors chet bush and john hodges are next talking about the history of race relations, civil rights, and justice in the american south. >> i am an associate professor in the program of jewish studies at vinedder built university and proud supporter of the southern festival of books. we are featuring two speakers, called i witnessed seeking justice in the jim crow south. on the premise you want to hear from the speaker rather than about them, we'll keep it brief. having been educated in nashville, ordained minister, serves the congregation in mississippi, the book, "call to the fire," a witness for god in mississippi, tells the story of a map who's life life in the ministry was em brilled in civil

rights events of the day. our second speaker is no stranger to tennessee, having taught at the university of tepees for 23 years where he was an associate professor of religious studies as well as the chair of african-american studies for several years. professor hodges holds degrees from lant university and the university of chicago. his book, "the recollections of a sharecropper's son" uses his stories as growing up in the mississippi delta to explore race in america like those covered in the classes at ut. each has a presentation about 15-20 minute, and there's time for a question and answer session, so, mr. bush. [applause] >> thank you. it is a real honor to be here and to share. my preference is that someone else would be speaking for himself. my role is to be his voice, and

i just want to share a brief quote from ellie who came to the university of mississippi on february 8, 2010 to the honors college, and he gave an incredible lecture on the solidarity of the human community and solidarity with others, and after his lecture, they open up the microphone for people to ask questions, and someone said, how do you respond to the antagonists who claim the memory of the holocaust dies with the passing of your generation? i cannot forget his answer. he said, whoever listens to a witness becomes a witness. he continued, therefore, you will become our witnesses. i thought that was an incredibly powerful response, and my goal is to be a witness to a more credible witness. my goal is to share the story of

dr. charles johnson. we're approaching in 2014, 50 years now since that pivotal moment in mississippi history. june 211st, three civil rights workers left for mississippi and medded to philadelphia. they were michael, james, and andrew goodman. you probably heard those names. on this trip when they were inspecting the charred remnants of a church that was burned, they had been working there to work on establishing a voter registration center, they lost their lives. there was a complete reign of terror as dr. king described it in the town of philadelphia. there was a infiltrated police department of terrorism, and dr. charles johnson would become one of the witnesses in the

famous trial called the mississippi burning trial. it didn't take place until three years later. it was not a trial for the murder of the men. it was a federal trial for the conspiracy to not give them their civil rights, to not grant them the civil rights, and so in this trial we saw some explosive moments, and one of those most explosive moments occur right when charles was on the witness stand. the defense was badgering him. the defense was trying to trap him. the defense was calling his character into question at the same time as slandering the victims who three years earlier had lost their lives, and he maintained his cool, but his articulate expression grounded and anchored the work of cheney particularly. he didn't know goodman.

andrew came the day before that he lost his life to mississippi, and charles never had the opportunity to meet him, but his witness was so very articulate in the face of hate, on the opposite side of him sat 18 defense, 18 defendants with a team of lawyers that counted 12 and the defense team. they ran the gamet of the neighboring county, and the imperial wizard of the kkk, the white nights of the ku klux klan, a preacher, they ran the gamet of regular people in the town, and it was just such an incredible experience for him to be there and have to face this. i asked the question, and this

is how we start the book is i pose the question to him, what was it like? dr. charles was one of two african-american witnesses in the trial. charles was from meridian, where many of the defendants were from. neither charles or earnest were in the courtroom at the same time. they kept them privately guarded rooms apart from one another other than the stand, and i'm asking charles what was it like to be the only african-american in the federal courtroom packed with police officers, jurors, audacious spectators and a row of defendants so long it span the front row, lined the corner adjacent to the witness stand and sit by the judge with a known record of intolerance of anything civil rights and called

black people monkeys in public, discouraged the federal trial from taking place and declared the murders of three civil rights activists a crime against mississippi, but not the nation. what was it like to sit before the all-white jury in which they allowed to dismiss 19 african-americans from the panel. what was it like to sit before a defense team of 12 lawyers who represented a line of 18 defendants that included the wizard of the white nights of the kkk alongside the neighboring county sheriff and deputy sheriff, a row of accused defenders treating the trial as informally like an amp at the shop. charles' answer? a circus. it was one big fiasco. thought the book, i have interjections of charles because i -- my ambition it for the reader to be engaged in the dialogue with a man and his

firsthand -- his first hand experience and witness in the trial, and so you find that, and it's also very reflective of the african-american the black sermon in which call and response is all part of the dialogue of proclamation, and so a very powerful experience to hear him tell the story. my greatest wish is that you could hear his voice, and so i seek to lift up how he tells his story. one of the unique factors of him telling his story is that after the trial became explosive in a moment in which he was questioned about his intent with michael, the inappropriateness of the question had something to

do with the defense, did you try to get black males to sign a statement they would rape one white woman during the hot summer of 1964? that's a verbatim question from defense, the senior defense of the county. the judge became so irate at this question that he called a recess. it became explosive. i call the chapter the dynamite trial, the dynamite trial because then he takes a recess, and one of the defendants even whispers to his pud discrimination that they call this a dynamite trial, we have dynamite for the judge and making comments like this about the judge in recess, back to the

judge, a variety of things going on like this in the courtroom, the defendant's not treating it with respect or the reverence necessary. the person who said this was wayne reports, a ruckus man. he's the guy who you may have heard about. bill minor, the legendary mississippi journalist identified, often wayne roberts is identified as punching out the cameraman on the steps of the federal building, and when he realized the journalist had seen him punch the guy and would then become a witness against him and another trial, he began to send him threats and notes through other people saying, i'll get you for this; i'll get you for this. that's bill minor's memory of him. you have a variety of antagonisms going on in the courtroom, and you had a man of god who was consistent in his

testimony, who grounded the work of the activists. it was plain to see justice, and it was a big victory in mississippi when a mississippi courtroom a box of mississippi jurors found the man guilty, found seven guilty, and so as we move forward in the story of charles johnson and his experience, about ten years later about 1977, he sees somebody coming up the driveway or his road to his driveway. as i mentioned, this was a federal trial so the men who went to prison did not go for murder. they did not serve the time for the crime. charles sees someone coming up

to the road, and he looks down and says, you know, that looks like wayne roberts standing on the front porch with his daughter. she's about two. is that wap? sure enough, he's out of prison in kansas, back in meridian, and he's walking up the street carrying something under his arms, and he's walking up in the shirt, stops in front of the house, and african-american neighborhood, 1977, stopped in front of the house, and says, reverend, can i speak to you? charles said, i didn't know, i thought he was coming to finish his job, coming after me now? this is his track record. he says, okay. steps down. there's a sidewalk, house on the hill, and there's a few steps to the sidewalk, and charles stepped down a few steps to the

sidewalk, and he said, reverend johnson, i was wrong. broke down, crying, here's some things i need to give you. i need to give you this painting. he had a painting he painted in prison. he held up a string of fish, eight, ten fish on the string, heavy, charles said, so fresh they were wet, said, i want you to take these, please, forgive me, i was wrong. charles said, okay, i forgive you. he said the two, we embraced, and stood there and the middle of meridian, embraced, gave him those items and walked away, went on back home, i guess. never saw him after that, never

talked to him after that. he said he'd see him perhaps or see something about him around town, but never had an ongoing relationship, and the power of his testimony to be a person moved by redeeming others is what motivates charles. i think of dr. king's quote in which he says the civil rights movement unlike many colonial revolutions does not seek to expel the oppressor, but attempt to transform him isolating the terrorists. in any way, not seeking to spotlight or to celebrate an individual who did heinous things, but recognizing the need to give ear and give witness when someone says i was wrong and to celebrate a confession

maybe repenitence. this is a story of witness for god in mississippi who was faithful to his call, went in complete fear and went however o beet yeptly in what he understood to be a call from god, heard a call from his community to step up and was a great civil rights activist in the community who heard a call from the federal government and so the senior director of the justice department, assistant to the attorney general, report kennedy, called him to the witness stands for the prosecution, and we find a man who was very consistent to give witness to justice and mississippi. thank you. [applause]

>> mr. hodges. >> first of all, i thank all of you for coming today. giving me the opportunity to share my story with you. i see continue newties and parallels of my story and dr. johnson's story, and thank you, chet, for presenting that to us. i know that must be a marvelous book. delta fragment is the story of my personal childhood journey growing up in the mississippi delta town of greenwood. first, a note about the delta. the mississippi delta is located

in the north western portion of the state. you have land that is enrichedded by the overflowing of the rivers over our number of years depositing silt and thus yielding land that is flat and rich, the perfect soil for growing app abundance of cotton. the delta is also known for its blues and lately cat fish. it is also a place of great poverty. it is known for casinoings that dot the land scape.

in the story, there's five significant moments which i detail in the book. first is my early life only the plantation as a son of sharecroppers. there is my attendance in segregated schools. there's the impact of inmaterial, and in august of 1955. i think of the influence of the black church on development and talk about participation on the civil rights movement although that participation lasted not much more than a summer, the summer of 1962. the book is comprised of 32 #

stories or fragments. there's two segments, learning and reflecting. the first part, learning, is much more autobiographical than the second part. the second part, auto biographical, i make an attempt to relate personal experiences to larger historical, cultural, and social issues. i used the idea of a fragment, something in complete and up developed to invite and encourage dialogue, the dialogue i did not have as a child growing up in the mississippi delta.

it is a kind of dialogue that i often have with students, and this book is my attempt to create that dialogue so that individuals can talk frankly about issues. i make a point, this is what i think. now, tell me what do you think? way is your position? i want now to read two brief selections from the sections. my stepfather was a flaw

individual. he was a person who would take a drink occasionally, which turned out to be every week. he was sometimes abusive. he was not the same person, but i think of him in positive terms. on his -- at his funeral, i read a letter that i composed for him. this was the letter that will speak of the sacrifice that he made that if permitted to go to school, he would become more productive.

after all, what could i do but get in his way? send that boy to school, and i said, hallelujah. i thought i would never stop going to school. this is the letter that i read in september of 2000 at the peril of any stepfather. i come not to glamorize your life. you wouldn't want that. it was a life that knew pain and sorrow, joy and pride. there were moments of personal weakness, faced many obvious calls in life, and you faced them the best way you could. a man does not have to be

perfect to be good. one thing for sure, you were no hypocrite. i liked that most of all. during my early childhood, you were the only father i knew. a boy needs a man, if for no other reason to let him know how hard it is at times to be a man so op this day that you're laid to rest, i want you to know i have not forgotten. i remember the time you took me for a ride on your broad shoulders. you seemed to enjoy the trips as much as i did. i remember watching you plow and plant and pick, chop, insisting that you would go to the field, but that i should go to school.

i thank you for that personal act of sacrifice that made all the difference. i remember the baseball games on sunday afternoons between wittington and racetrack and pink service station. sometimes you played first base, but more audiotape, you were the catcher. you had neither overwhelming speed nor power. you were my josh gibson, my roy. they could never -- the sun was going down. the pitcher would know by these words to through the drop, and i remember walking to school in driving rains so that you could walk me back safely to our shotgun house on whitington's

plantation. i recall the many newspapers from the white folk's house usedded to plaster bare wooden walls. little did you know, the walls would help improve my reading skills. i remember the greens and neck bones, corn bread and butter milk and the smell of fried chicken on sunday morning. i know you remember that bicycle you bought me for christmas which was a great joy for me but served as your sole means of transportation. i also remember disappointment faced at the end of each year at settlement time when you were told once again that you had come out in the hole. i remember the personal insults

faced and trying to cope, and in those moments, i realized just how tough your life had been. sometimes it's hard to be a black man. i remember the trips to golden age nursing home and the rise we took to the land that you once worked. i wanted you to be proud that i had not forgotten. i saw you for the last time in mid-august. you had become so weak. the strong shoulder that held me now drooped. those feet and legs that once took you from whitington to the buckeye to the avenue and back again could not take you from your own bed. i knew you were tired, weiry,

and wanted rest. i hope that you have found that rest and peace. i will miss you and never forget the personal sacrifices you and mother made to make sure my life would not be as tough as yours. love your boy, john oliver. the second piece i want to read is called a delta revival harkening back to a time when individuals were actually babetized in the river, and i understand that may still be what happens in certain churches, but it happened every year in my church.

on that saturday before the baptism, a big rain hit the delta, and it continued that morning, and there was a question of whether the baptism could take place. i assured my mother that before the time for the baptism the skies would clear, and when that, in fact, happened, she was certain her son found the lord. i was hoping that was the case so i didn't go back there again the next year and go through the whole process all over again. here is the final section of this piece, a delta revival.

now that the weather cleared, the victims and pastor gave the okay to go ahead with the baptism. further occasion, my mother purchased a beautiful blue suit for me, and that was immediately following the baptism. the baptism itself, all the candidates fight down and a white air piece that made it hard to tell the boys from the girls. two or three of us got dressed at the brer of frank anderson, a church deacon, as his house was conveniently located between the church and the river. we then all gatheredded at the church to march the half mile oar so to the river. for quiet than we have been in our entire lives.

rev went wh kingston, the regular pastor, was in charge of the baptism. the revival minister having completed his task of preparing us for the moment. dressed in a black robe, black cloth head gear, they took the position, and some of the sisters notedded out loud how good the pastor look on that baptism sunday. on either side were brother anderson and brother scott wilson, my uncle, and also a deacon. there was another deacon that led the candidates down to the water. the deacons were there to support the minister and aid any candidate who might flip on the banks of the river. any of the candidates tell you

that there main purpose was to prevent as much as possible the river from filling their mouths and nostrils. one two other church members nearby kept the debris to keep away water moccasins as we called the deadly snakes from taking part in this ceremony. he determined whether he was a boy or girl in a rich baritone pop your professional of faith, my sister, in the lord jesus i baptize you in the name of the father, the son, and the holy ghost.

i love the lord, he heard my cry, or ring the bell, i done got over. we were wrapped in white sheets to keep us as warm as possible. when we were baptized with the acception of one candidate, richard garner, we began to walk back to brother anderson's house to dress for the church service. this walk was swifter and more purposeful as we had to shed wet clothes for the suits our parents purchased for this very special occasion. it was a time of seriousness. the parents made sure of that. they warned us on a number of occasions that now that we had become christians, we couldn't take part in the same kinds of

mischief and foolishness as before. religion was the stick used to regulate our behavior. the reverend could never count richard among his success stories. when it was time to put his head in the water with matter of debris, richard didn't comply. all the deacons in the church and his mother, the church secretary. they gave up and striping led water -- sprinkledded water in his direction and announced the formula that separated the saved from the unsaved, the bad from the good. afterwards, whenever the pastor ran into richard, he reminded him that he still had not been

properly baptized. thank you very much. [applause] >> all right, brief reminders before the question and answer period. one, both books we heard about are for sale over at legislative plaza at the book sales area, some of the proceeds come back to the southern festival of books. both are back at the autograph session after we wrap up here today. the kind c-span folks asked me to ask those of you asking questions to use the microphone located in the back of the room there. questions? i'll is the first question of

mr. bush. i was curious from your perspective as a clergyman, what do you think the jewishness of some of the good people who went south, what impact did that have on what they did and how it was received? >> i understand you're a directer of studies -- >> not the directer. >> you're understanding better than i can. >> i was just curious about your feelings. >> i know that when the student nonviolence coordinating committee went out to various universities, they went to something university students wanted to be a part of, tap into a passion and an awareness of justice and able to identify something's not right here, and we found a, to use the word again, solidarity between

christians and jews and black and white and a variety of personalities coming together in particularly 1964 freedom summer and coming to mississippi during the civil rights agent vism so i think that organizations like snick, core, and i believe that they identified something that really i -- you know, makes us aware of the solidarity of the community to join together for what's right. >> okay, thanks. yes, sir? >> thank you, both, for the great presentations. this question really is for both of you. i'd like to know the role of religion in racial oppression,

both during that time period as well as now. there's a lot of people -- there's a saying that, you know, sunday's the most segregated day in the south because, you know, the churches are separate still. i just wanted your perspective on that, thanks. >> my perspective is this. when i grew up in mississippi, i never attended a white church. i didn't think i would be welcome. i was reading, doing my research that they used to carry a pistol with him to church to make sure that no blacks were present.

now, that's a horrible way to be a christian. in my own understanding of things, it seems christianity has often served in a negative way in terms of bringing about this whole brotherhood of the beloved community, that we cherish. it does not have to be that way, but that is the sad status of the matter. i hesitate sitting alongside a minister here, but i still have some problems with christians,

who want to preach one thing and do something completely different. >> i was working with two opposing theologies. i mentioned a minute ago i had a preacher on the defense side in the courtroom, and a preacher on the witness stand for the prosecution. i was -- sam bowers, the imperial wizard of the white nights of the kkk, in his recruiting pamphlets, reason number one on a leaflet detailing 20 reasons why you should, if qualified join and aid the white knights of the mississippi, this is reason one, it is a christian, paternal, and

benevolent organization. i'm having, as i, you know, the subtitle is a witness for god in mississippi. my priority here is to emphasize the prophetic voice that persons like dr. charles johnson and dr. king claimed, reclaimed, because it was hijacked and reclaimed for the sake of the faith. so, yes, i address those and i see it very much as a conflict because that -- >> has that improved at all? >> has what improved? >> in terms of the division between races and the church's role in that today? in that area? >> i know it has in my life. >> uh-huh. >> i know it has in my church. >> one of the problems we have is that often the minister may

have one set of views, but would need to cater in some ways to the views of a congress gages that may be older, may not feel quite the same way as he does. how does he, you know, negotiate to that tough situation, you know? where you have two individuals in the church who will say something that maybe very much against how he feels. there's this example, i believe, in mississippi of the couple that wanted to get married in crystal springs, and the minister wanted to marry them, but their influential members of the congress had problems with it, and thus they were not mart in that -- merit in that church

so this is the kind of thing, a very good question, actually, that needs to be tackled. >> next. >> yes, one of my thoughts is that -- that's what -- that becomes a problem in the church is that we failed to be able to separate that which belongs to christ, but the other question is that both authors dr. hodges, bush, my thought process and question is then at the level that you are in your life, what you've been able to accomplish, how -- i mean, what drove you to the point where you had to get

this out of the inside to the outside, you know, and what impact do you hope this will have on others? >> somebody had to tell this story, and nobody was telling it, and nobody knows, even though he was such a pivotal character in this famous trial, nobody knows his perspective, and i needed to tell it. ..

i note that all of the times when i was growing up in mississippi i would read about what others said about blacks. some very famous authors, william alexander percy for one, david cone, important writers in the delta, but they did not give the perspective, my perspective. i wanted to have an opportunity to tell my story just as you retelling dr. johnson's story.

i need the opportunity to tell my story. my book is about "delta fragments: the recollection of a sharecropper's son," this title comes in large part from william alexander percy's book on the levee, the recollection of a planter's sun. why not have the perspective of a sharecropper? that is why i wrote it and i said in my remarks to create dialogue because we need to talk about issues. we have a problem in congress where people are not talking about people don't want to listen to each other.

i thought if i could, not knowing about how well this covers had not taken place, if i could write in such a way as to give people an opportunity, to encourage them to sit down and talk about their differences. we are not all going to agree but at least we should be able and willing to listen to each other. >> follow-up. part of your question was what do you hope this does? my hope is to open up to a readership that doesn't normally reach civil rights activity books, and dialogue to a wide readership.

to really in a fight, i have so many people even in circles to which i belong that read the book and believe in mississippi in the same communities i'm talking about and said i have no idea. ahead and charles johnson 30 or 40 years and say i had no idea and it is to open it up to a brand new reader, a new thinker, to engage others. >> i am just wondering if you have read the book the new jim crow about any comments you have about that, it was a horrible situation going on today.

>> you are referring to the one dealing with blacks being in prison at an alarming rate. this is a very tough situation. we know that blacks who commit crimes, similar crimes as whites tend to get much more jail time and this is something that definitely needs to be corrected. >> we had a speaker come to the university. >> you emphasize how important is education was a your parents instilled in you the way to get out, being a sharecropper yourself, and dedicated your adult life to being an educator. i wonder how you react to people

who don't see the value in education and somehow doing well in school is fun cool. >> i don't react very well. because i was going to school and some of my friends here go to school. to either go to school and go to work, you didn't stay at home and will move off of your parents and do nothing so this is something that is very new and i don't understand it. i never understood why it is that people did not want to go to school. i thought was a much better bargain to go to school than have to go to the field or do some other kind of work. if your parents are taking care

of you it seems that is at least the thing that you could do. >> other questions? >> if you speak up. >> i don't have a question. and a group -- it is coming. and the way to know is i am enjoying both of you. >> anything else? thank you all once again for

coming. [applause] >> booktv is on facebook, like us to interview with guests and viewers, up-to-date information on events. facebook.com/booktv. >> booktv is live from austin. coverage starts today. and includes two panels looking at the november '63 assassination of jfk. sunday's coverage starts at noon and includes alan weisman on our future on planet earth. the texas book festival.

and you have a few months to put fought dubdadash post your comments on working with the wind, congressman john lewis on the early years of the civil war on booktv.org/bookclub. >> i trace through the narrative of a woman's life. the book after a historical chapter looks at girls and how we raise girls and what expectations we as society are putting on girls and young women and looks at body image and our issues around body image are fundamentally different for women than men. sex, a painful chapter to right, look at marriage, babies, housekeeping, the workplace, aging. trying to follow through the arc of a woman's life. we don't have a lot of time. i want to touch on three issues that are capturing three chapters and chosen them at random. it might be nice to touch upon. the first is beauty and body

image. the second is a marriage and how it has and has not changed and the third is house work. which you all might be a little young for. you can probably sort of imagine it. let me start by talking about beauty. i don't suspect i have to argue too hard to convince people that we as a society still remain totally obsessed with women's bodies and women's bodies as subjects of perfection and perfectibility. if you go back to the earlier feminist work this was one of the most important themes, we have to stop society's obsession with women's bodies and move beyond beauty as a standard to embrace other standards for women. does anyone think we have pulled that off? no. if anything, i will argue this pretty easily, we have instead once again upped the ante for

beauty as a standard by which women are evaluated, ago to rosy's at the corner, pick of any women's magazine and what is it about? it is about beauty. we now have a beauty standard that applies not just to women your age, who are the archetypal beautiful era, you are supposed to look like you're 22 until you are 92 so far as i can tell. you and not allowed to have a rental, not allowed to gain weight, one is supposed to or assumed to be beautiful throughout the entire course of her life. one of the things i do in the book, you may have seen the glamour peace, that excerpt, high counted up how long it takes me not to look like a model which i never will but show up for work in the morning, takes me a lot longer than it takes my elephant who uses a lot of hair product. that is all he has to do. if you think about what the

standards are, for a woman who is a lawyer or a doctor or a professor there are standards that apply that are major constraints on women's time and energy and in come. it is not a bad thing but something we have to be aware of. what is the bad thing, we see this with hillary clinton constantly, people are conflating their assessment of women's qualifications with their assessment of women's beauty. i was talking about this topic recently with someone who mentioned she had gone to an exhibit as one of the museums that included several corsets, things women used to wear 200 years ago to make themselves more attractive and she was commenting isn't it great the we don't have corsets anymore and then her companions said if you stop and think about it, maybe it was easier when women had corsets because if you think about it, you don't have to work

very hard if you wear a corset. it may have been painful but you put it on and were done with it. now the expectation is we will retain course it like bodies without the help of the corsets so what do you have to do instead? you have to diet and exercise which is arguably much harder than putting on a course it. i wanted to throw that out. i didn't want to argue this point too much but interesting in our so-called liberation we in fact may have made it harder for women to achieve standards for beauty because that woman in the course at really hrset reals be the same shape shot the advantage of chemical intervention. let me talk about marriage. for the argument out, the marriage chapters one of the more interesting ones to write in the book because there's not

much written about marriage interestingly, cultural studies or feminist history. if you just take it sort of in the broadest level marriage should have disappeared as a social institution. marriage is an economic contract. if you del back and look at marriage throughout history, the original marriage ceremonies in the jewish tradition quite interesting because it is a contract. several more variations but essentials the an economic transaction that the family is giving away their daughter to a husband in exchange for something. land, callous, sheep, a dowry. it is an economic transaction and what the woman is giving is her virginity and the promise to have children and in many cultures of the woman didn't produce children the marriage could be annulled because that

was the deal. thankfully we are way beyond that now. we don't enter into marriage in all cases in this country at least as an economic bargain so while we still getting married? why, interestingly, as same-sex marriage taken over in such a huge way following essentially the same social conventions which make no sense in the same sex union. we have fetishize the white woman. and a remarkable way that is the message of something that doesn't exist. i will sell horribly cynical saying this, we added a brand-new ingredient into the marriage complex and that is love. that is of good thing but it is ratcheting the expectations up because way back when, love had nothing to do with marriage. it is a social and