plan to address climate change and four key points -- has ucceedany of tse fron glrg well, i mean, it depends how you define success. if we're taking the loming-term view, and thinking about what are we doing in you quantify success, taking a long- term view, what are we doing to build an economy that is 100% power with energy that is clean, renewable, safe, secure, and sustainable? you would say we are making great progress. we have secured the retirement of more than 150 old and out plants.irty coal fire

energy use has declined as the economy has grown. cars and trucks are becoming more efficient. all of that is good. at the same time, when you look at the affect that we already see from a destabilizing climate, droughts, wildfires, severe storms, you know that we need to be doing everything we can to accelerate a transition to a clean energy future, and weeks -- when we set the standard that high, that is when the president does not always reach the right marks. the way the president has laid out his priorities from mitigation, both from power plants and mobile sources, cars and trucks, is sound. it is a comprehensive, strategic approach. but, in the face of persistent, unyielding opposition, both from most segments of the republican

party, as well as the oil, coal, and gas industries, the president has not always reached -- the strongest long-term view, and sometimes steps back from what actually needs to be done. host: michael brune, let me show you what the president had to say last week, touting his strategy on energy. [video clip] of theave pursued in all above energy strategy, so we are producing more traditional energy, more noble energy than ever -- renewable energy than ever before, more natural gas come to we have cut our pollution in the process here at -- process. host: what do you mean -- what do you make of the all of the above policy? itst: we do not support because it means more of the same. this is where the administration is at war with itself, without

the president has talked about how climate change is a moral obligation and an economic opportunity to transition to clean energy. at the same time, when the president talks about an energy policy that is all of the above, expanding oil drilling, expanding fracking, expanding exports of fossil fuels, that only undermines his first goal. the opportunity here is under the obama administration, the price of wind has dropped by almost 50%. the price of solar has dropped more than 75%. so, we have a chance right now, to leapfrog over fossil fuels. not right away, and not entirely, but when all of these coal plants are coming off line, we can have a majority of the energy mix -- a super majority of the energy mix, come from solar, wind, and in aggressive

renewable energy. that is starting to happen at the utility level, but it is not being pushed as much as it needs to at the federal level. there are a lot of great examples. the omaha power district in nebraska recently made a big investment in wind, so by 2017, they will be at 30% of their power coming from wind. a warren buffett subsidiary, mid-american energy, was considering building a nuclear power plant, backed away from that, and made the largest economic investment of any kind in the state of iowa's history, and by 2017, mid-america and iowa will be powered 39% by wind. we see in oklahoma, texas, colorado, minnesota, all of the states, big investment in solar and wind hitting penetrations of

30% and 40% by the end of this decade. similar level a of ambition from this president, going all in on clean energy and pushing out as much oil, gas as we can. host: viewers are waiting to talk to michael brune. in northp first carolina. democratic caller. caller: good morning. in the mid-2000's, "the st. -- st.urg" time petersburg times" put on an article about use you in florida, and i travel on the highways, night and day. i would like to know if you are mixing to michael's and pumping the chemicals in the tanks and adding water to it to make our fuel. in the old days i saw nothing

but all four corners with gasoline stations, and now there are fewer gasoline stations, more cars, and i cannot understand why these tankers are off of the road. can you answer that question for me, and thank you, c-span, for not cutting me off. a nice day, sir. but i. -- bye-bye. host: michael brune. guest: thank you, john. it sounds like you are spending a lot of time on the road. because of state and federal mandates, policy has been put in place to address two things -- lowering air pollution, all different kinds -- compounds that affect locally as well as greenhouse gas emissions, and also, to make vehicles more efficient at the same time.

there has been attempts to reformulate gasoline, to make it cleaner, but the biggest move that happened over the last decade or so federally has been to make our vehicle more efficient -- to go further on a gallon of gas. california, where the air quality is pretty poor, about 10 years ago, the state set policies to make our vehicles more efficient, and those policies were copied by, eventually, 19 other states across the u.s.. then, when obama became president, he made easy efficiency standards ubiquitous across the country. the country had one set of standards to take the average efficiency from 22 miles per gallon, up to 35 miles per gallon. a second set of standards have been formalized and finalized, which will increase efficiency up to 55, or almost 55 miles per

gallon for an average vehicle. automakers ins detroit and elsewhere that are able to lower the energy cost or bysumers -- for consumers getting the same types of cars and trucks to go much much further. host: florida. republican caller. span.r: praise be to c- here in florida, we have a unique program that is combined with getting families to camp out one day a month in their backyard and incrementally get used to being off of the grid, and i would like to invite joe biden and ralph nader to come visit us. the citizens only utility company, and i would like those three people to come help me deal with our new mayor he you

asked. his name is howard, and he won a moral way, because he bear false witness against his opponent. host: will move on to art. independent caller. .o ahead, sir all right, one last call for our. -- art. let's move on to john, brooklyn, new york, democratic caller. caller: good morning, c-span. thank you for taking my call. since we have had efficiency improvements in the united states the last couple of years, since we talked about, why is oil production increasing in the united states, and my second question is about buildings operating efficiency --

efficiently. are there training programs for kids coming out of high schools and colleges to maintain buildings to operate efficiently moving forward. thank you for taking my call. guest: thank you for calling in, and congratulations on your new mayor. programs for efficiency, and some have been extended by the administration, acceleratesory that progress -- employment in communities and gives people a leg up into the jobs market. in california, there is a small group called solar richmond which takes youth from urban , and helpse bay area them get a leg up on the solar economy.

we have similar programs in the central valley and all across the country, either to help install solar panels on the roofs of each -- churches, buildings, and homes, or to make buildings more energy efficiency -- efficient. can you remind me of the first part of the question? host: i blanked. john, are you still with us? increasingwe are efficiency, why is oil production increasing? thank you. guest: that is part of the untold story. 22 billionalmost use barrels of oil every day, and now we are down to 19, and most estimates have that declining to below 15. and

how do you reconcile those? we are becoming a major exporter of oil and gas, so here, in the u.s., we are bearing the pollution burden from fracking gas, and theal pipelines being constructed go through special places in the watersheds, and a lot of that oil is being exported to other countries. the keystone xl pipeline, if it is built, would go not to the united states, but through the united states, and most of that oil would be exported to other countries. so, we get the risk, as taxpayers and citizens of the united states, and often it is the oil industry or gas industry that reaps the profits. host: michael brune, where is the evidence that this will be exported?

guest: go on an earnings call for any refinery based in the gulf, and they will state clearly that the majority of oil will be exported, and they say that because investors in these companies know they will command a higher price overseas. so, if the oil is exported as diesel products for latin america, they would get a much higher price than they would in the united states. so, you hear the refineries talking quite clearly and candidly that they expect an increased profit potential from exports down south. host: earlier this year, you laid out five essential presidential actions. the keystone xl pipeline was number one on the list. why? .uest: for two reasons one, it has become symbolic of the types of choices the administration needs to make. one of the things the president

said in his climate speech at building thene, keystone xl pipeline is not in our country's interested it would expand or exacerbate the challenge of stab amazing -- stabilizing greenhouse gas emissions. aat is true for keystone and variety of other energy decisions the energy -- the country is making. keystone has become a high- profile is true -- issue and symbolically, it is important. is one of the dirtiest sources of oil on the planet. you cannot reduce greenhouse gas emissions, cut carbon pollution, and expand investment in the dirtiest sources of oil on the planet. so, we have to have a

reconciliation of the president's policy. if we are serious about a stable climate, and you have to cut emissions, you cannot grow new sources of dirty oil. york magazine," -- "the keystone fight is a huge -- make keystoneto the number 15?

-- number one fight? guest: i read that article, and there are two faulty assumptions . first, the level of robin pollution. his assumption -- carbon pollution -- carbon pollution. that it willn is come no matter what, where that is transferred from the keystone pipeline, or if it goes by rail to other countries, or trucks -- for spec, however it comes. the assumption is the oil will come out no matter what, and that is a cynical projection because if we extract the oil from the tar sands that is economically recoverable, and similar amounts of oil from other oil fields, we had no chance, zero chance of stabilizing greenhouse gas emissions. scientists have agreed that if we want to keep global warming

to a roughly manageable level, 3.6 degreesrming to fahrenheit, we have to keep two- thirds of our fossil fuels in the ground. a tall task. the second assumption that is not true in the article, is we only do one thing in the environmental movement, but we are focused on one issue, and i run the largest grass roots environmental organization in the country, and i know that is not true. you can look at our budget, which is publicly disclosed every year, and you can see that both at the sierra club and many arer organizations, we spending significant resources in other areas. the largest campaign in the history of the movement is focused on retiring dirty coal plants and expanding the use of clean energy.

at the sierra club, we have more than 150 full-time staff doing exactly what jonathan said, working to secure strong rules workmit carbon, into state-by-state, utility by utility, and coal plant by coal plant, to make sure each individual boiler is retired on a thoughtful, smart, schedule, and replaced with energy, wind, and other sources. -- pleaseasktter the guest commenting millions of dollars his outfit contributed to natural gas drillers to cripple coal. contributedve not to natural gas drillers in any way. they are quite wealthy in their own right. they do not need contributions from the environmental industry. there have been partnerships between environmental groups in

the natural gas industry, which is ill advised. we recognize that the natural is andustry -- natural gas fossil fuel, it causes significant air and water pollution. it is not a bridge fuel. it does not take us to a clean energy future. it distracts us from building a clean energy economy. what the sierra club believes is there is enormous potential in investing for solar, wind, and energy efficiency to meet our needs now and in the future, and increasingly, more utilities agree. we installed new power sources -- more than 2012, then oil, coal, gas and nuclear power combined. host: c is next. herkimer, new york, republican caller. thank you. we elect a president every four years, and the american people are asked what issues are most

important to them, and the environment always comes in at the bottom at 4%. it is not that the american people do not want clean air and clean water. the american people are smart enough to know that no one knows less about the environment than environmentalists. if you people were not so destructive, you would be even more comical. highlight one of your more humorous comedy routines. least10 years ago -- at 10 years ago -- one of the upper midwestern states, there was an area where ranchers grazed their cattle. some environmentalist group sued because this area was the home for prairie dogs. a federal judge ruled in their favor, and when the cattle stopped grazing, the grass grew

so tall that the entire area became uninhabitable and the prairie dogs left. my point is, most s are notntalist scientists, and judges are not always the smartest people in the room. thank you. guest: well, thank you for the love, charlie. , we are notlists just folks to get up early in the morning and get on television in suits and ties. we are your friends, your neighbors, and people that are in the republican party, the democratic party, able to live in cities, and people that lived in the country. all we have in common is basic values that regardless of what our job is, our sexual

orientation, our religious belief, we believe in clean air, clean water, producing jobs in industries that are sustainable, that we have the potential to power our economy with energy that is clean, renewable, and save, and we think we can work with businesses to establish grow our economy, improve our quality of life and make air and water clean. i know there are controversy of issues some have taken, and controversy of things -- controversy oh -- controversy from things we have said, but i know there is common value it has most of america really does believe in basic environmental values. i would just say there's a lot more that brings us together then sets us apart. thank you for your comments.

numbers, hereoll , findingnt from pew energy problem has declined as a public priority. venice beach. democratic caller. see, thank you. -- caller:. for the sierra club. we are all entitled to pressure, clean water. bioain comment is regarding mimicry and nanotechnology, cuttingally is the edge, and something we can learn from nature. obviously, favorable to nature, but we can utilize nature by studying the

components of things like shapes andnd feathers and things that could actually have no net loss of everything is utilized to perfection by nature . therefore, the principles in nature can be applied to different types of engineering ,ursuits in building designs things like air conditioning that can be modified and structured on these natural occurring structures in nature, and applied to difficult science , therefore making it far more conducive to a healthy environment with no net loss. host: i will leave it there. mr. brune? guest: i do not have much to add, except for people that are not familiar with the term bio mimicry. there are lots of ways to

interact with nature. some of us go on hikes were camped out every now and then, but there are a lot of scientists that want to understand in great detail the processes of nature -- how the ecosystems interact, and how different organisms interact to see what lessons we can learn that can be applied to a modern economy. how can we produce materials in ways that do not produce pollution? how do we find ways to minimize waste question mark in -- waste? in nature, there are no landfills, garbage dumps. nature operates with efficiency. bio mimicry involves understanding nature to apply the lessons to a modern world, it is a fascinating idea. int: let's go to tom illinois, a republican caller. talk to you to

today. i am from illinois, and i live in flyover country thomas and i never hear that debate -- country, i never hear the debate -- i would like to know how many jets the guest flies in the the year. two years ago, i called in and they had a nasa scientist. him -- there are 5000 jets a day and each one uses diesel fuel. i have a 1500 acre farm, and i do not use that much diesel fuel a year. i asked the scientist, what affect do the jets have on the atironment, because they fly 20,000, 30,000 feet, putting out carbon. plants.ctually food for

so, i asked him, what does that do, and i said have you ever the upper air environment, and he said yes, on 9/11. i remember those days, four the, and no jets flew in air was clean. the other thing is, it if you have ever stood behind roads and it will damage near knock you off of your feet. what do you think a jet flying at 35,000 feet the size of a football field does to the turbulence of the atmosphere? nothing is ever brought up because of the people flying in those jets. host: all right. ?sther --mr. brune

guest: you are right, we look at the sources of air pollution, there is relatively little attention paid to airlines, jets. but is therobably, fastest growing source of carbon pollution, and the fastest- growing attribute or to climate change around the world. most of the agreements that have been put into place -- international agreements -- they do not yet applied effectively to air traffic. you asked about my own travel, and how much i am flying. i am traveling too much, extensively, mostly in the u.s., to help establish policies that would address that. youi suspect that i -- that are trying to find some inconsistency there. in thisneed to do country is find ways to make our economy more efficient and effective so that people who need to travel, or be with

family members or their business, can do so in ways that do not pollute. we want to offer incentives for airlines to be able to use fuel that do not contribute to a destabilized climate. we want to find a way to get people from place to place efficiency without causing negative side effects. brune, the epa is holding listening sessions around the country on the best way to reduce emissions from power plants. they have one kicking off this morning at epa headquarters in washington. what is the best way, in your opinion? guest: to reduce emissions from power plants? host: right. guest: a variety of sources. that is the good news. states can apply a variety. carbon from power plants is a significant cause of climate

change, but it is the pollution carbon plants, air toxins like mercury and other the sierra club is sending out hundreds of volunteers to these listening sessions in dallas, philadelphia, san francisco, chicago, washington, dc. we are encouraging policymakers throughout the obama administration and epa >> we are encouraging everyone that we have economic alternatives and we can use energy more efficiently and invest more significantly in solar power and wind power and began to displace pollution from coal-fired plants with clean renewable energy resources. >> host: we will be covering the listening session in washington. go to our website at c-span.org.

michael brune, thank you so much for your time. >> on the next "washington journal." the recent article arguing in favor of rewriting the u.s. constitution. and this includes childbearing infertility in the u.s. with stephanie ventura of the population reference bureau. washington bureau is live every morning on c-span at 7:00 a.m. eastern. >> you are watching c-span2 at politics and public affairs weekdays featuring live coverage of the u.s. senate. on weeknights, watch key public policy events and every weekend the latest nonfiction authors and books on booktv. you can see past programs and get our schedule at her website and you can join in the conversation on social media websites as well.

>> the senate today approved a nondiscrimination act which would prohibit employers from discriminate against workers because of their sexual orientation. the final vote was 64 to 32. how speaker john boehner opposes the acton said that he will not schedule a vote on it in the house of representatives. after the senate passed the bill this afternoon, president obama issued a statement saying in part that today's victory is a tribute to all of those who fought for this progress ever since a similar bill was introduced after the stonewall riots more than three decades ago. it is up to the house of representatives. one party in one house of congress should not stand the way of millions of americans who want to go to work each day and simply be judged by the job that they do. and how speaker john boehner opposes the employment nondiscrimination act and said that the house will not vote on

the legislation. >> just after the senate voted to move forward with a final passage on the employment nondiscrimination act, a group of senate democrats spoke with reporters about the legislation that would ban workplace discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation. the senators called on how speaker john boehner to schedule a house floor vote on the employment nondiscrimination act. [inaudible conversations] >> okay, we are ready to start. please go ahead. >> what the bells of freedom ring. it's a very exciting day how this bipartisan vote to have this final vote will go. the senate has finally spoken. i thank everyone for their leadership.

thank you to senator harry reid to bring this to the floor to make sure that this would happen and senator tom harkin who guided us through several markups and hearings and then a mockup for a terrific bipartisan team and tammy baldwin brought so much energy and momentum in coming to a from the house with her experience and her story. and senator kirk as a chief cosponsor who stood in favor in connecting with the colleagues and senator collins. it's an incredible bipartisan group that said discrimination must end. and senator kennedy asked me to undertake the leadership of this bill when he was ill and 2009.

he said when the promise of america in august of 2009, just 20 days before, it he said the parcel number be fulfilled as long as justice is denied to even one among us. and very true words. and as for the declaration of independence to the battles over slavery and battles over gender discrimination and race discrimination, with we have fought to capture that vision of a quality and liberty and opportunity and fairness and we have taken a huge strike today in that direction. and speaker boehner has mentioned that he may not bring this up in the house. and i call upon him to do so. and his concern that other laws

cover this does concern is easily disproved and certainly his concern that this would reduce employment is unfounded. and the entire company drives and that creates more jobs. so that was a terrific day for fairness and freedom. and i am honored to be determined as part of this coalition. >> thank you, jeff. as chairman, i want to thank you for it's during this the real and being such a strong

supporter of it. in 1964 we pass a civil rights act in the 1990 we pass the americans with disability act and now we have sort of finish the trilogy. this includes the basis of not being discriminated against on your sexuality or gender identity. i think it's also remarkable. the final vote will be around 62 or 64. sixty-four votes. and i'm very proud of the fact that the first time in committee in the house or senate ever reported a nondiscrimination bill on sexual orientation and gender identity. we did that in july and i want

to thank the leadership team here, especially senator harry reid, four hits making sure that we have this window of opportunity to make sure that we could bring this to the floor. i want to thank senator durbin and senator schumer and this leadership team made it possible i think senator baldwin, one of the new members of our committee. she has been so instrumental in bringing this out. >> i am calling upon speaker boehner to bring the bill to the floor. i am convinced that if the houseboat on us, it will go to president for his signature. so i am asking speaker boehner

don't point this out, don't stop there. too many people in america have been waiting for far too long to end this blatant discrimination against people because of their gender identity or sexual orientation. we just passed the americans with disabilities act in 1990 and the first president bush signed it into law and let the shameful walls of discrimination come tumbling down. that is true in terms of people with disabilities and true in terms of art transgendered, bisexual brothers and sisters of america. if these walls come down. speaker boehner brought this bill to the floor. senator baldwin. >> thank you. i want to just say that what we have seen is such a restatement

of basic american values of freedom and fairness and opportunity. and for folks like myself in the lbgt community, the opportunity to be judged in the workplace by skills and qualifications, it is an important pronouncement for this nation and i have talked about the impact of passing laws and this includes symbolic impact and they say that something is wrong and shouldn't be done, that sends a powerful message to prevent discrimination in the first place. and a day i will never forget my

service in the senate and we have been able to work with this untrendy leaders who are everyday committed to freedom and fairness. >> i am sure over there someplace, there is this room and it has and it and it has a big marketplace fairness and we can add to that list. we find out where it is and the american people support this overwhelmingly. and please do what is right for

the american people, let's do this legislation. it is only about fairness in more than 80% are to believe they should be a lot. so let's do it. >> i want to thank you for the achievement that we are seeing on the floor today. this is a big week for those of us in illinois because it was just a day or two ago that the illinois general assembly passed marriage equality, making it the 15 state and nation that has reached this amazing historic milepost and it's an important day when democratic senator dick durbin this important

legislation. this is a historic victory and shows our country is moving forward and it wasn't that long ago when it was acceptable to refuse to hire people based on the color of their skin, their religion, or their gender, but congress corrected it with title vii of the civil rights act and at one time someone was discriminated against due to their age and then congressman and age discrimination. tom harkin can say that he was the author along with bob dole, he could say there was a time when an employee could be passed over for promotion simply because they were living with a disability. thanks to tom harkin and many others, the americans with disabilities act put an end to that kind of discrimination. speaker boehner has said that the current law already prevents this type of discrimination and for that reason come in the house of representatives considering his bill could ask speaker boehner to go home and

take a look around the state of ohio. his home state of ohio was one of the 29 states which allow employers to discriminate based on sexual orientation and it is unconscionable that we are given an opportunity to write one of these last remaining civil rights issues, speaker boehner and those who follow his lead in the house of representatives are turning their backs and we have an opportunity to outlaw one of the last vestiges of discrimination in the workplace and let me close by saying that anyone who is a student of history knows that our history books are literally what those public figures who said that we just can't and that discrimination based on race, we can't and that based on age and based on disability and based on gender. think about their place in history today and i won't recount the name straight speaker boehner, think about the party you belong to, the republican party of the united states of america came in during

the 1850s during the issue of slavery. none other than abraham lincoln, who gave his life for this country to end discrimination and he kept that discrimination alive. do not kill this effort to end discrimination in the house of representatives. >> thank you. i'd like to thank senator merkley and senator baldwin who spearheaded this great passage today, and of course, senator kennedy is looking down from the heaven and smiling. we hope that we will give him want to smile about in the next few months. and here is the problem here. the house of representatives, speaker boehner has already said he won't give in to a vote. everyone talks about gridlock in washington. it rests with one man, speaker

boehner. it is the broken card in our governmental wheel. nearly every time the senate passes senate passes a bill to my flickr banishing the issue to a faraway jail. and we hope and pray that enda will not suffer the same fate. but if the house of representatives does incest on going down this road, they will be sending their party street to oblivion. they have sat on a farm bill and an immigration bill an issue after issue. so the house seems to be the place where bipartisan senate deflation goes to die. we have my greatest votes today. our count kept going up, and it

will continue to go out. why can't the house do the same thing. republicans in the house opposed bipartisan popular bills at their own peril. and they alienate another vote every single time they do it. they have alienated hispanics and young people and women in the lbgt community, the rural community, soon there is going to be anyone left. >> i want to thank senator merkley for getting this passed, you showed your true blue determination and it's great to have you take this on and pull it through. to senator baldwin to help people truly understand the meaning of what this legislation is. and i want to thank the chairman of the committee who has seen history in his own time and it has been his leadership

reminding us what discrimination is and that our country is better than that. senator dick durbin invited a speaker to go home to his own state to listen to what people are saying about what happens to them when they are discriminated against. i would invite him to come out to washington where we have the laws on the books to protect the members of the lbgt community from being discriminated against. and this includes great individuals in our state, because they respect of cpt members and bring them to their and companies and employ them. this includes starbucks, amazon, and nordstrom. they will tell you that this is a good law in one that should be good for the rest of the entire country.

[inaudible conversations] >> the bill, of course, exams employers fewer than 15 employees. presumably many of the 21 states that don't have this protection already did seem like those are the types of things that might be in a smaller town, they have the types of employees and the corporations are you all disgust 10 years ago, 20 years ago and realized that it wasn't in their best interest to be discriminatory. aside from a bit of a moral victory, has accomplished anything for those who need this

protection? >> in the future we are going to hold the questions down to five minutes. [applause] >> yes, it publishes a lot. in 29 states of the lg bt community. in 33 states, the transgendered community can be discriminated against and in terms of this, this sets a national standard of nondiscrimination. and i think that that was embodied throughout this bill and this vision and will certainly have a substantial form on the bill you are considering. i think it makes a huge difference and i hope that the house will move quickly to put it on the floor. >> of the houses and pass this -- >> you will have to ask the president that. i don't know what authority or power that he has, but i'm sure

that he has exercised his administrative authority in previous occasions and that is what the senate republicans had better come to realize. there is more than one way to skin a cat and they just have to stop everything that comes along. >> we put plenty of pressure on him. , but senator schumer has been working with people in the house who want a bill and there are ways of getting that done. and we hope that his patience will work. and the reason it is so troubling as i mention on the

floor again today, they are obsessed with cutting spending even though we have cut $2.6 trillion, it is a trillion dollars. and i am flabbergasted. we are stopping everything the american people want. >> will you do the favor of explaining that? >> of course, i hope that when we get the defense bill out of here, i would feel as culpable as we can. and that is part of what they want to do and i could care less. thank you, everyone. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible question] >> you think the white house will be open to a delay before

look at? >> we met with the president and we went through the current situation of the website and what has been done. including what we have in terms of dynamics of the implementation of a portal check and it was very clear to everyone at the table, that we will move forward and we will get this website right and we will give millions of americans a chance for portable health insurance. and we feel just the opposite. [inaudible question] >> we have to be careful and senator harkin can address this as well. we have to be careful because we have health insurance policies being offered on the exchanges

based on actuarial tables which suggest when they will go into effect and will be part of the pool and not sort of thing. the delays that could change that radically. we don't want to do that. i still think with an abbreviated sign up period, starting november 30, there will be opportunity for people to sign up connacht. >> i did get my report. and the website gets better as everyday goes by. and this includes [inaudible] and so everyday it is getting better and the wait time is getting less.

they take the website to content down to upgrade it every night. so everything is vital and will be wide open at the end of the month. but a lot of people think that it is closed. 70,000 people per hour can get on and complete your application. plus there is an 800 number and you can apply by paper. they have a temporary glitch or a temporary slowdown, but it's coming right back up again and this includes more access and speedier service unless mistakes. [inaudible question] >> the enrollment numbers were discussed in general terms.

[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> people wait until the end because of all the confusion that has been going on now. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> the senate today approved the employment nondiscrimination act which would prohibit

discrimination on hiring. john boehner says he will not schedule a vote on the house of representatives. after the senate passed a bill this afternoon, president obama issued a statement saying that today's victory is a tribute to all of those who fought for this progress ever since a similar bill was introduced after the stonewall riots, more than three decades ago. and now it is up to the house of representatives. one party and one house of congress should not stand the way of millions of americans who want to go to work each day and simply be judged by the job that they do. again, that from president obama. how speaker john boehner opposes the employment nondiscrimination act and says that the house will not vote on the legislation. >> you're watching c-span2 at politics and public affairs weekdays featuring live coverage of the u.s. senate and this

includes key public policy events and the latest nonfiction authors and books. you can see past programs and you can join in the conversation on social media sites. >> texas governor rick perry ran for president last year and he came in fifth place. he is back speaking at the polk county republican dinner and you can see his speech live on our companion networks c-span tonight at about 8:00 p.m. eastern. >> president obama was fund-raising in dallas yesterday and rick perry fundraising in iowa this evening and todd gilman is the washington bureau chief it joins us by phone today. tom gillman come out you are writing that the president comes to texas being one of the chief sources of resistance of health care law. what did the president accomplish by his visit

yesterday? >> the primary goal seems to be fund-raising and some large sum, which will go to states other than texas because so far texas democrats are not very competitive and john cornyn is up for reelection next year, but the democrats don't seem to be making a run at him. so as far as pitching obamacare in the affordable care act, it doesn't make sense for him to go to a place like texas and an exceedingly high percentage of texans who lack health care coverage and that is where the money is coming to go to a place like texas because that is where the uninsured americans. also for him to go and take on

governor rick perry directly in his resistance to expanding medicaid is one of the main reasons it is a major obstacle to clearing the roles of uninsured texans. >> his comments's comments yesterday, the president said that no seat and trance state needs the aca more than texas does. so how does that play with governor rick perry? >> governor perry is not surprisingly unimpressed by that argument. he has argued that the affordable care act is the wrong way to go and in particular, the kind of medicaid expansion the president obama look like is not the right way to go for the state of texas. he and other republicans don't trust that the formula will stay in tact. so what are the promises coming out of washington are right now, it's going to end up much more costly and could potentially bankrupt the state of texas overtime in the medicaid cost

goes up in this includes the affordable care act promising full reimbursement from washington. and this includes the rollout of obamacare and including that they were losing insurance on and president had promised that they would lose their insurance. >> rick perry heading to iowa this evening, was he hoping to publish their? >> he is hoping to accomplish an outpouring of support he ran fifth in the caucuses and 2012 and it was really devastating and at one point he was just a shooting star, and in a fairly

embarrassing way at the end. and i'm sure that he would like to run for president, he is testing the waters as many candidates are and i think that he is hoping to make connections with people and rekindled connections and see how it goes. >> is the second prominent texan to be in iowa. >> ted cruz has been in iowa three times in the past several months and each time he had very friendly audiences and even the republican party, he was mostly attracted to tea party activists and those are the folks who honestly want to come out and see a valid individual. they love him and they think the world of him and they certainly don't hold him to blame for the

government shutdown in so ted cruz certainly is going to be a contender. and because they play too a lot of the same people, they will be fighting for the same portion of the iowa caucus goers. >> the comments the president obama made yesterday, are there any comments? >> i wouldn't be surprised, he certainly is very proud of the fact that texas has been a bastion of resistance to obamacare, and they have fought the law in court and he has refused to expand medicaid, as we discussed, unlike some republican governors who you would consider to be alive and more pliable on this issue. so i wouldn't be surprised if he addresses it.

>> tom gillman is the washington bureau chief you can read his review at dallas news.com and follow him at tom gillman on twitter. thank you for joining us. >> sure thing. >> texas governor rick perry's speech in polk county, iowa, is live on c-span just after 8:00 p.m. eastern. on the next "washington journal", the recent article arguing rewriting the u.s. constitution why it should be done. and the conversation went doctor thomas friedman. and child-rearing infertility in the u.s. "washington journal" is live every morning on c-span.

>> we are back. joining us from san francisco this morning to continue our conversation, is joseph desmond. he is the senior vice president of government affairs for bright source energy and he will be here to talk about the largest solar installation in the world called ivanpah. what is this? >> is concentrating so solar thermal power. so when we talk about it, most say that we talk about the rooftops. but we are using a field of mirrors and they track the sun on two axes throughout the day to focus sunlight onto a tower. and that includes producing high-temperature steam which runs through a turbine much like

this. >> where is this taking place? is taking place in california, 40 miles south of las vegas, an area that has fantastic son in the mojave desert, some of the best solar resources that you'll find in the world. and this includes a 36 six hole golf course and a across the highway and it is right there along highway 15 if you're heading north of las vegas. >> host: wended construction began and when will it be ready to go? >> guest: we started the permit process in 2006. the actual construction begins in october of 2010. we are now nearing completion and we installed the last helio stat which is the two mirrors

and so we have achieved synchronization of the grid and this includes a flux on the towers and the units will come online between now and the end of the year. >> host: so what are you expecting as far as generating power? >> but we are expecting is a project to consist of three towers, each tower has a long-term contract of either 20 or 25 years and the output is presold. >> host: so how will california power be generated from this? >> guest: technically the electrons will go where they need to go, but for accounting

purposes, all that energy is provided in california. but obviously this is just one of many projects california has undertaken with solar and wind and geothermal and i can give you the exact percentage, but i conclude that the powerpoint itself at 377 megawatts will be the largest of its kind in the world. and i think by the end of this year in this category, cfp, it will be almost 800 megawatts by the end of this year. >> host: for your investors? >> our investors are energy in google for the project. and we focus on managing the flux in the software control and integration and this includes vantage point and many traditional venture capital investors. >> host: what about the taxpayer? >> guest: they are providing a

$1.6 billion loan guarantee for the product that will be paid back with interest over the life of the project. >> host: this comes from the federal longer and tee program. >> guest: that is correct. >> host: it was given to slender as well. how confident are you that this will succeed and taxpayers will see their investments exceed? >> i will answer that in two ways. it is the first of its commercial scale and that is what it is designed for. >> even about three years ago we built a solar facility for enhanced oil recovery. and through ivanpah, through the loan process, we found about

$2.5 billion in with respect have alone gives it back, that goes through reducing loan and we reduced debt by nearly 30% and we negotiated through a competitive process with california utilities the analogy would be like if you build a hotel, he guaranteed 100% occupancy for the next 20 or 25 years. >> because of your arrangement with the california government? >> or utilities. and the creditworthiness and the ability to pay back the loans. but you also recognize that there was money in addition to this and a lot of this due diligence was done as part of our investors.

and we have begun demonstrating at each step of the way and we are bringing the power plant on line and we are testing and tuning to finish that process here by the end of this year. >> post not the utility company's are making that commitment because of the california legislature making that feasible. how much total do this project cost? >> guest: it cost $2.3 billion. >> host: most of the money coming from the taxpayer, why was that? >> guest: most of these projects are almost all large of the structure projects relying on debt. and this includes the private capital invested so the federal government is providing a loan guarantee and it is that combination of the loan guarantee with the investment that is used to finance these

projects. in the project should be able to stand on its own on a going forward basis. but these are innovative technologies and we have demonstration projects, but this is what you call commercialization we point to the marketplace saying that we understand the technology and managed to de- risk some of the aspects of the project and that also allows you to access lower cost of capital and market we have access to that. >> host: with interviewers involved. we have a democrat caller from st. petersburg, michigan. >> i am calling from michigan and this includes my question on

renewable energy and they are making it hard for any taxpayer to create any kind of self-sufficient policies. and this can't rob any t. and this can't rob any tax off of that because and they relay on fuel like gasoline and all of those kinds of taxes and it's for the people not the government does not beckon, and a little bit on the role of utilities. >> guest: well, there was a cost competitive type of service competition you anything about

old photographs and 1880s but the energy industry itself is very regulated because it provides an important service and reliability is job one. and that includes providing electricity reliably at the most reasonable cost maintaining environmental standards and stewardship and of course balancing the security. but what you have is people have different views about what the social policy objectives should be and how much diversity is in the system and how much should come from energy efficiency. but the rate structure should be in by and large come utilities very regulated business governed by a utilities commission appointed by governor and the market rules are subject to the federal energy commission. >> caller: good morning. >> host: please go had.

>> caller: the ivanpah area is part of the great basin and there is very little water in the desert in the mojave. and i have noticed that you mention the golf course there along, the concrete path is apparently levitating on the ground and that is caused by if you remove so many feet of water from the aquifer, you have the skeletal system and reduces the capacity of the aquifer forever. and that includes the future flooding or raining or whatever in the aquifer cannot be

recharged in the area where the water used to be. so my question is over the life of your solar plant their end the ivanpah valley, what is likely that you'll have enough water for the integrated design that you have? >> guest: let's break down into two parts, excellent question. we are recirculating i wonder in the tower and then re-condensing that back and running it in a complete cycle and that is how it operates to me. the second point and something that might surprise you is that we actually don't use traditional cooling. one innovative aspect that we were demonstrating is the use of air cooling condensers.

and we are working with 47,000 homes per year. it is about an hundred acre fee and what does that mean? that means it's the same amount of water that 300 homes would use in any year or another way of thinking about it isn't the same amount of water that tools of the golf course next to a series is to keep the grass green. so it's very efficient and we are sensitive to that in the second point i'd make is that the technology is innovative and that we don't grade the land, we have developed technology that allows us to loosen the soil and get a pylon into the ground to maintain the natural contours of the land and we saw just by doing that in maintaining that landscaping, you can avoid sensitive areas and it's an 85% reduction impacting the land use in the area. he saw the benefits of that when we had the flood.

but we have a set of monsters to the west of us. it comes only two times a year, but it's a lot. and our technology has been designed to withstand the 70 years and hundred year floods yet we have yet to see anything. so the benefit has been innovative technology to take into account the issue that you have raised, which is how important water is in the desert. >> host: is that part of the reason you chose this location? >> guest: yes, number one as it has great fun, the intensity of the sun on average is excellent. and that means that we will produce more energy per square foot than you would in an area that has less intense sunshine. also of an existing gas transmission line that runs through the poverty property and we actually consume a little bit of natural gas by 2% per year that allows us to start up and

capture the first morning light i getting those pipes once we can make use of the flux and produce things quicker, which helps to reduce this performance and also it helps to strengthen the reliability. >> and you submit an application to the federal government and in that you obtain a lease. and basically we are leasing the land from the federal government and we are required to restore the land etc. the way it was.

and it is least on federal land. the federal government leases it for when the moment, oil drilling, solar development, the desert or public lands and we are on 3500 acres and there had been many and we talked about exploration and drilling. and there is a significant difference. what you see is the collection of the resources i will come

back to how we we can work with those technologies and you can see the production of electricity in what you don't see is that when being used for exploration and extraction and this is really an efficient use of land and this includes steps to protect the species including plants and animals. >> host: you said that you will restore the land to its original look. will the installations go away? >> guest: yes,. >> host: so this is not a permanent solution? >> guest: you talk about power plants and this has a life of 30 years. and when a plant is reaching us, you are often able to repower

and this is a question that will be asked at the end of 25 and 30 years. but legally we are obligated to restore that and imagine that you brought a car and once you pay for it in the gas was three for the life of the car and that's what you have here. and this includes producing electricity and these are the economic that you look at. fixed and variable costs postmark we have another call. >> caller: good morning, everyone. i was just curious on how many mirrors on their [inaudible]

>> guest: they have three towers, it is 140 meters in the metric system tall. it is 1 meter taller than the great german. but each of those towers and the tower is roughly 133 and 127 megawatts each of those mirrors is individually controlled so that at any given point in time, we don't need all the mirrors come up with enough merit to maintain the flux, on

to the top of the tower. i think they want 538 degrees celsius in the 1200-psi. in all of that contributes to help them lower the cost of energy. >> does this replace the traditional panel that people think about. >> we need a mix, whether it is

a mix of fossil fuel and other different solar projects that have different attributes, meaning the plant is a variable and the wind and powerplant is variable, although you can predict with accurate numbers how to produce it over the course of the month and in the case of the solar plant, we are able to do is marry that technology with burma storage. the heat of the sun and use that to produce electricity when the sun goes down. and this is actually going to be a combination. we can create that and we think of this as solar steam and we can use this with other applications like reducing the carbon intensity of natural gas plants and coal fired plants and using this port as part is part of the world where they need it as well as enhanced oil recovery as we have already demonstrated

as i would say the future of clean energy is supported of solar steam and that will complement what happens as well. >> host: a tweet from our viewers. what is the yearly maintenance burden and you talk about expected lifetime. but if your hardware from me to replace and upgrade? >> and we fabricated and we install those 173,000 on average at the rate of over the course of construction we have that. but this is steel and it is standard mirrors that you expect to use. and that includes quitting those facilities.

in the number of workers in construction, we have this apathy, 2100 workers, including 3000 in total. and then we will have about 90 people on a go forward basis. and this this includes the next 25 or 30 years. >> host: and jim wants to know what is the effect of this going into the atmosphere? >> new reflecting sunlight, you don't get that at all. and then you have to understand the idea of focal length. and we are pointing at this and this is essentially no missions other than a very small amount.

>> what about the species in the area. there was concern over a desert tortoise? >> yes, i would stop by saying that we selected this land in part because it indicated that it was a class three habitat is the least sensitive habitat and we were began to do some surveys. >> and nonetheless, people legitimately have concerns and we have taken great steps to ensure their protection. so i will give you an indication of what that involves. we have special something that prevents them from growing back in and at one time we had 150 biologists to go through the system and they walked through

the solar field. and it was tested and looked at to make sure that it didn't have a respiratory disease and are there only two times per year when you can breed tortoises. and we were awaiting the next window and we had 55 juvenile tortoises born in captivity. so we also have what is called a head start program that provides shelter if the survivor rate of the tortoise and the wild is about 2% and protection from predators is 90% early 8% early on. and that is the exact opposite.

and people have had a hard time understanding that that is exactly what has happened in this includes the tortoise population and it is yielding a wealth of scientific data that the biologists have not had before. and they have composers and i'm happy to say that so far there has been no statistically significant difference between those in the control populations as well. and it has been a command of success was backwards and with this e-mail. how many square feet of panels or mayors does it take to support a single person with everything electric the average person owns and uses daily?

remember the country has 320 million people. >> guest: the average consumption is 750 million kilowatts per year and can california. taking into account big-screen tvs, lights, and cooking. we have roughly 140,000 homes. one helium stat service on home. .. in the country. on the concentrated solar side, roughly given the size of our heliostat, it is one for home. you can do the math that way. host: the project is called ivanpah. it is the largest solar project in the world. billion.

>> built on public expense after hurricane katrina. it was damaged and the pubic paid for all of the repairs and the public invested about a billion in the construction of the new super dome. and the man who owns the saints keeps all of the revenue.

people don't rebel because many don't understand it is taking place. the second reason they feel there is nothing they can do about it because it is all based on insider deals. the most recent time there was a vote in miami the citizens voted against it. >> more with the author on sunday night at 8:00. >> the environmental public agency is hosting a series of meetings on regulating rules on coal power plant. today mitch mcconnell was there. this portion is more than an

haur hour and a half. >> thank you for coming to our deba debate. today's session is part of what is now an ongoing conversation intepp intended the help the state determine the carbon pollution from the existing pow plants. power plants are the single source of carbon pollution and we must address the source as we work to combat public change and one of the most significant health risks of our time. science tell us climate change is real and human activities are

fueling the change and we must take action to avoid the most devastating consequences. in june the president called on agencies, including the epa, to take action and protect the country against climate change and lead the world in the effort. the president's call included a directive for epa to work "quickly to complete carbon standards for both new and existing power plants. closed quote. there are no federal standard in place to reduce the country from that large source of pollution.

the epa responded and we will save consumers thousands of dollars at the pump and cut the carbon pollution from our cars in half by 2025. in september, we announced our proposal to set standards for carbon plants emitted by power plants in the future. these standards are practical, flexible and achievable and insure that power companies will use modern technology that limits emissions. these standards insure a clear path forward to a continued diverse energy mix. epa is now beginning the work

for proposed guidelines for consisting power plants. these guidelines will be used by the state as required by the clean air act to develop and implement programs to reduce the carbon admission in each state. the epa's job is to deliver clean water, air and safe and healthy land to american families. we have done this job for four decades and done it by relying on the best available science and being transparent in the decision making. and by working with everyone to develop common sense approaches to protecting and improving the environment across the country. the 40-year history proves we can reduce pollution and

increase jobs. it is this history that brings us here today to hear the opinions. at today's meeting and at ten others like this around the country this fall, the epa is reaching out to the public at large to get your input. we want to hear from everyone include community, leaders, environmental and health groups, faith leaders and labor organizations. we want to here about how epa should develop and implement carbon pollution guidelines for existing power plants under the clean air act. in addition to sections like this, epa regional and headquarters staff and leadership, including administrator mccarty, has been meeting with ceo's from the gas

and coal organization. we have been meeting with everyone from state and local officials, health organization, faith groups and many other stakeholde stakeholders. we want to be open to what is important to each stake member. we are reaching out to leaders in all of the state and tribes to hear their ideas as we develop the proposed guidelines. the clean air calls on the states to play a key role. we can learn lot from ongoing efforts in the states and cities and communities as well all of which have been starters for

innovation. many are leading the way to cleaner energy. ten states have imp implemented their own programs to reduce pollution. more than 35 states have renewable targets and more than at a -- 25 states -- have target to reduce pollution. and mayors are signing agreements to cut the pollution. we want to learn from from their experience and ideas as we begin this important effort. today's listening session will focus on the best approaches to reduce the carbon pollution from existing plants and how those might help us develop guidelines on the clean air act.

if you would like to comment on the future power plants proposals, there is information in the back of the room to get you started to submit the comments. the clean air act gives us frame works to address new and existing sources. before i turn it over to my partner let me remind you why it is so important you are here. climate change is a threat for the future and now. the extreme weather is what we are talking about. no one can forget about super storm sandy.

extreme storms like that can cause more surges in the future. 2012 is the same year that was the hottest on record in the lower 48 states. we can expect to see longer more frequent heat waves and increased heat-related deaths. wild fires in 2012 scorched 9 million acres across eight states. they can put entire communities at risk. damaging property and costing lives and dangerous level of air pollution are produced. and wild fires are were -- projected to burn larger areas in the future -- and flooding will throeatening the fish and

wildlife habitat and threatening our drinking sources. ultimately, and most importantly, climate change is about health. carbon pollution and hotter weather can lead to longer allergy seasons, contribute to the spread of insect borne i illness and worsening smog. the good news is that we can do something about this. you know, the climate change cannot be solved over change. it is going to take a broad, n concerted effort. but we cannot afford to delay. we can successfully face the challenge of climate change if we work together and act now. the action we will discuss today

is an important step in that process. again, i would like to thank you very much for being here today. and my colleagues and i look forward to hearing your comments. i am going to wrap up by doing something i should have done at the beginning and i apologize for delaying. i know you were thinking you were listening to a nameless bureaucrat, but i am joseph goffman and counsel member for air and radiation. and now i will turn it over to john millet. >> thank you. good morning, everybody. and thanks again for joining us. before i turn over to you, i want to walk through there part of the clean air acting the epa will be using to reduce the

pollution from the coal power plants. as we listen to your ideas and approaches, we will be thinking about how they fit under this section of the law. president obama has directed the epa to issue a proposal by june of 2014 and take final action by 2015. greenhouse gases are air pollutants at are subject to regulation under the clean air act. we have the authority under section 1-11 of that law and it sets out separate approaches to addressing new sources of pollution. and new sources, epa standards of performance, call nspf, this is the proposal that was signed

on september 20th and is available on epa's website for review. this type of standard must reflect the degree of the limitation acheviable through the best system. now source standards address the six common pollutants, but not air toxins. for existing sources covered under section 1-11 d, the subject of this listening section, epa doesn't set ix -- explicit standards -- we set guidelines and companies use them to set their policy while getting the necessary pollution reductions. section 1-11 d is reserved to address other pollutants that

are not covered. greenhouse gases, including pollution are covered under the section. most have been shutdown for new, modified or reconstructed sources. few regulations have been iss d issued. the guidelines establish binding obligations for the states to address the carbon pollution. last month, epa posted a document setting out a number of key questions to guide public decision on our website. we will have that as we start to craft the proposal. two questions are fundamental and good to keep in mind for today. they are what should had epa consider in setting standards

and goals to reduce pollution associated with fossil fuel power plants. and secondly, because the guidelines might show how the state plans to meet the goal, what should that timeframe be? some states show the leadership may range from action taken at the power plant like switching fuel to other programs like energy eefficiency in homes and businesses. it can affect the electricity and that will affect their emissions. we know there are a lot of ideas about getting reductions from the power plants. so today, and in the coming weeks, let us know what is important to you. what do you think the epa should

improve in the carbon guidelines for existing power plants and why? do you have suggestion on what might help to reduce the gases from power plants? we want to hear about what programs to reduce should the epa explore. we are interested in what can be directly at the plants. and in what could be done in other places throughout the system that could potentially reduce the pollution. how can we incorporate this approaches? what makes sense? if you have experience with energy efficiency and renewable programs that might help reduce the greenhouse emissions share with us what you have learned and tell us what we should keep in mind. we look forward to hearing from you. you may share in writing and information is at the registration tables out front. before we get started, let me

fill you in on ground rules and housekeeping. i will be the one to call the speakers to the micrmicrophone pairs. state your name and affiliation before beginning. please limit them to three minutes each and remain at the micr microphone until all of the speakers have finished. if yuld you would like to submit in writing, give a copy to the staff out front. and you may e-mail your ideas to carbon pollution input at epa dot gov. the yellow light will come on at the two minute mark and when you

see the red-light you will be asked to stop. we will take a break 12-1 and as needed throughout the day. if you would like to make remarks, but haven't registered, please see the table. we ask for your patience as we go through the list. finally, if you need any help getting around this building or around the locale, please see any of the helpful folks out there. they will all be there to assist you and direct you. once again, thanks on behalf of

myself and everyone here. i will call the names. first gale bush. and michael heard. please come up to the front table. >> my name is gale bush and i am here as a volunteer and representation of the american lung association and someone who has worked in the health industry for over 20 years. i am hear to hopefully encourage you to implement the same starnt

standards for the existing power plants. i see our inpatient volume increases whether when the air pollution is high. i see the impact the air quality has on patients. we are impacted by having to implement changes within the hospital because of the in-patient admission. we can be penalized because of the readmission and that is impacted by the poor health. we cannot do anything do manage what they are exposed to outside in the environment. so i am hear to encourage you to continue the work you are doing and try to implement the same

standards for the existing power plants to help reduce the impact of carbon pollution. >> thank you very much. >> i am michael heard and the business manager in baltimore and district of columbia. i represent 700 active and retired filmmakers in the district of columbia. and internationally we have 60,000 members and our work is involved in fossil fuel plants. i would like to thank you for holding this. i have been a business manager for six years, work was prominent when i started. internationally we worked to get the standard up so we could put quality pollution control on the

plants. there is a lot of technology out there that can reduce the amount of admissions into the environment and we were going in that direction. the utilities were putting that work into the their existing power plants. my concern is in the past two years, since 2011, the work has dropped off from our members. you know we are talking about -- everybody is talking about creating jobs. we are loosing them by not putting these retrofit controls on the plants so that americans can continue to work in this country doing american work. as far as that is concerned, you are looking at already 50,000

megawatts. that is a lot of power plants. and with the new rules in june, it will have more closures and more american jobs. good, high paying jobs with health benefits. my concern is that it seems drastic, the standards they put on keeping the coal fire plant is the same as the gas fire plants, what they admit is different, but if you put the right controls on the plants, you can get close to that. also, with the restrictions being put on our country, with all of the closures something needs to be looked at globally. they are polluting into the atmosphere with no control

equipment whatsoever. it seems redundant to charge us with penalties. if you shut all of them done, what will you replace with? there is a lot of coal in this country. when you close down a power plant people think 50 guys lost th their job. but the people around there are affected as well. there is a trickle down effect there. i believe something needs to be done. as far as the standards and the

limits they are putting on coal i think with the technology today and all of the scrubbers and stuff we can put on there, and you can look at carbon capture which is a great technology to keep it from going up into the atmosphere when you put them into the ground. with that, i believe i am rambling, but it hits me deep because i am looking at loosing a lot of members a year. and someone needs to do something to bring the fossil fuel back. >> thank you very much for your perspecti perspectives. appreciate it. our next two speakers, david scott first and then next is greg burleson.

>> we will work with our timer this time. >> has my time started? my name is david scott and i am president of the national sierra club. morning. i appreciate the opportunity to speak to you about why the sierra club strongly supports the epa efforts to tackle carbon pollution from existing power plants. make no mistake these are a first step in addressing the most important challenges of our time.

and immediate action to slash and end that carbon pollution is the only way to assure that future generations inherit a habitable planet. additionally science -- scientists and doctors warn us the earth warms unhealthy levels of ozone pollution or smog will increasingly become more widespread. higher