kentucky's appalachia not counting representatives in our region? in 1960, just before the war on poverty was declared from 76.5% of citizens lived in poverty. by 2011, only 24.5% were living in poverty. now the colts work has been reduced to half of what it was in 2011 and is on the rise again. i cannot imagine they calculated the impact of their decisions this negatively impacted the coal industry in eastern kentucky, but thousands of families and children at risk, threaten decades of progress. but if they did, they callously disregarded that calculation and violated the most basic moral imperative of our government, which is to protect its people.

today, energy produced in america by coal is that thing is ever been in the technology is in place to make it even cleaner. i'm a resident of eastern kentucky. my families from eastern kentucky. my friends and teachers are in eastern kentucky. i'm asking you to please help stem the tide of unemployment and poverty by stopping the epa regulations do so drastically impact the production of coal. is my friend and fellow bell county jimmy rose has reminded us all recently on the hit show, america's got talent, called diskeeper lights on and a thank you and i'll be happy to entertain your questions. we now recognize mr. ventrone for five minutes. >> chairman murphy, committee members, i'm a business manager international thurgood boilermakers local lodge 154 in pittsburgh, pennsylvania. i represent more than 2000 boilermakers in western

pennsylvania, ohio and western virginia. my members are in the hard way the epa's coalescent clean-air. it's eliminating coal and our way of life. whether makers have always been on the forefront of making united states coal-fired power plant fleet the cleanest in the world coming here to defend our interests. the boilermaker trade is vital to the construction industry. were constantly expanding our main power and recruitment resource is to meet the needs of the industry we serve. we've built our reputation by dispatching trained, scudding productive christ and every jobs i regardless of its size. the boilermakers a trace person who possesses a full range of knowledge in skills required to work in the construction industry. the duties of the boilermaker, breaking scaffold interaction and dismantling steel, impact

machine operating in such other items is regarded as boiler make a journeyman worked. the broad scope of the trade includes construction maintenance work performed in the field industrial plants such as power plants, retrofit coal file unit, is a lecture our generation, nuclear hydro plants, refineries and oil and chemical, gas turbines and gas processing plant. water treatment facilities, cement plants, fertilizer plants, breweries, pulp and paper mills and many other industrial facilities. the international brotherhood toilet makers have long been a proponent of sensible legislation and regulatory action. however, the the recently proposed rule restricting carbon emission ainu fire plants appears to be a calculated move to ensure the coal will no

longer be a part of that strategy by setting impossible co2 limits for new fossil field plants. effectively, and the epa service regulation will and future coal-fired power plant construction despite the progress made in the years with the angst emissions, what technologies. just three years ago, hundreds of construction workers and boilermakers install state-of-the-art pollution control equipment on the 1700-megawatt coal-fired power plant. more than half a billion dollars is invested in this land, proving that coal and clean-air were not mutually exclusive. however, despite having invested half a billion dollars to powerplant, two weeks ago marked a permanent closure because the plant owner cited new epa regulations were too costly to keep the electricity generating facility operational.

on this breakthrough approved by the the. only three years ago have been deemed insufficient by the very same agency in virtue of new regulations without a vote in congress are inputs from the public. these new regulations forced to shut down of the powerplant initial plan, new england pennsylvania, putting hundreds of utility workers and boilermakers out of work. typically, 154 dispatched the tire plant in pennsylvania every spring and fall for maintenance work. six days a week for approximately 15 week duration for 400 automakers. consequently has a direct result of the shut down the hatfield's ferry fire station, roughly

360,000 ludovico local 154 man-hours will be lost every spring and fall. critics of coal hauling thousands of boilermakers, mineworkers and hard-working men and women who earn an honest living in our region and coal. the they install us, calling us polluters, murderers. pittsburgh residents refer to assist coal barons. they've made outrageous claims about her livelihood. attacking her integrity and ignoring the tremendous environmental gains made by each coal. in the last three decades, said three usage has tripled pollutants like sulfur dioxide have fallen by 56%. i stayed in the new york times by elizabeth mueller, executive director of the climate research group, china's greenhouse gas emissions are twice those of the united state and are growing at 8% to 10% per year. by 2020, china will it make

greenhouse gases is four times the rate of the united states. even if america were to suddenly disappear, the world of emissions would be back to the same level within four years as a result of china's growth alone. clearly, the one eyed production of the american coal industry would not solve global change, publish it on existing investment in new research that holds the key to huge reduction in co2 emissions. the coal-fired power plants for the rest of the road is free to continue to expand the use of this reliable and economic energy source that is field our economy for more than a century. the skip takes in this debate are those who ignore the coal is used cleanly. the niners are those who want to acknowledge the true social cost of the epa's anti-coal agenda in the hundreds of southwestern pennsylvania who were losing

their paychecks. we can have clean-air. if the epa and allies are allowed to continue waging a devastating war against our jobs. on behalf of the boilermaker construction industry i'm calling upon congress to come together tonight visualization coal-fired that a devastating direct impact on our tax future. >> mr. wharton, recognized for five minutes. please keep it in that time. he meant to mimic for the opportunity to speak today. my name is roger wharton. i'm now retired or. a group was formed five years ago to provide for the working men and women of the calling. i would like to thank each of

you for the opportunity to talk today share with you what is happening in communities across the appalachian coal fields. today's hearing is intended to execute the damage being done to the coal industry or the obama epa under wormhole. let me say bluntly, there is a wormhole. i sing to them every day for the past five years. over the past year alone, west virginia has lost one and 3500 direct coal mining jobs at approximately 10,000 more jobs using the average wage of coal mining to cost more jobs. that means our state has lost an estimated 924 million in wages. that's right. almost a billion for the economy in just the past year. when you look across the apalachicola bills, more than 10,000 coal miners 50,000 support workers are people who

need jobs depend on coal mining are now unemployed across the coal fields of west virginia, west virginia and kentucky. these people are for one reason. the anti-coal policy for this administration. while it's true part of the problem in the short term is your official not suitable natural gas this administration and epa have made it next to impossible to use coal for generation or even my name in the first place. these factors have related many utilities to take steps to close older coal-fired power anti-semitic. likely policies continue into the future. even her plants will be composing. meanwhile, it's almost impossible to get the permits necessary to weinstein co., which has historically come in for approximately 60% of the area's production. the result of all of this is a steep decline in production for 168 million tons in 2008 to just

110 million tons in 2012 and west virginia. in even sharper decline in kentucky colleges to steeply. it's taken more jobs with it. if the epa, the white house and some other friends media claim there is no war on coal. even obama's advisor has admitted the wars being waged. he said there have been a war on coal. on the other hand, the war on coal is exactly what needed. you could make the claim that some do that other factors over cool. that is true. the bottom line is the obama administration has ago handedly made nearly impossible. forced the closure of coal-fired power plants as well as announcing the closure of hundreds more for the next few years. now they're trying to make it impossible to export to other countries who do not understand the value of cheap, affordable

energy. obama -- since obama took office in january 2009. even for the election, obama said he would budget in place the regulation of encrypt any one wanted to build a coal-fired power plant and the promise he has kept. today, our electricity grid is straining to meet demand. the opposed roll areas of the connectors district as recently as three weeks ago while this blackout are voluntary response to the temporary conditions. the reality is i matter how you cut it, the voluntary blackout, allowing massive blackouts in urban areas. i believe inside a wiki for electric generation switch between fields including coal, natural gas or renewables to our member 35 years ago for the

beginning of the great recession when the world economy was screaming out. every cubic foot of natural gas and other sources of energy we could find. all forms of energy going out because he simply couldn't find an effort for the demand. ultimately, we'll find her way out of the current economic downturn in the world to do something and when we do, we will not again i also resisted fuel. if we retire coal-fired capacity, we are setting the stage for a major inflationary spiral in our energy cost and with it the downstream cause of every other good in our economy. we need to protect her coal-fired capacity in iraq to provide down the road. just a few weeks ago, the group of local democrats from my state, leaders who went to washington discuss the issues with the epa.

they came away believing it might be a new start, but they came in for this past month when it became clear the epa would not announce new regulations, would announce new regulations that would end the use of coal for generation. it is clear this administration and the national democratic party cared nothing for the hard-working men and women. as a basket of bills passed by the house of representatives that would end the obama war on coal. however, bills are stonewalled by the edmonds duration. in closing, i simply observe the president speaks a lot about the justice of hope and promise. i would use the hearings to ask where is the hope in judgment for a coal mining plants? this to other careers available. this president is condemned to poverty and despair. i asked a judge to an less

important than others. right away matter to you, mr. president? >> the gentleman's time is expired to going to see how fast we can get the witnesses. we have 11 minutes left to get to the vote. mr. weiss. spinet thank you, chairman murphy, ranking member to get. thanks for the opportunity to testify on this important topic at the center for american progress has great respect for the sacrifices coalminer some families have made to this nation. it takes working underground with explosions and fires a law preventing toxic pollution. minor my sentiments have made genuine sacrifices undeserved resolutions to the economic challenges that yesterday. not the false hopes based on unsuccessful efforts to block essential public health protection. the economic challenges of the coal industry are due to the following fat yours. put it diggity has increased from a life far fewer miners to produce more coal. there were 700,000 miners in

1923 are on a 80 today. each miner produces 15 times more cool compared to 90 years ago. close competitiveness for electricity generation is to claim with the advent of clean less-expensive power. natural gas is one third the price in 2008. electricity has become more cost competitive without pollution coproduces. its price competition led to the retirement does dirty and inefficient coal-fired power plants. the plant scheduled to close in colorado, kentucky, pennsylvania and west virginia built an average of more than 50 years ago. cole's impact on public health has been widely recognized. for instance, an american heart association study estimates the pollution for the coal-fired power plants these 213,000 premature annually. pittsburgh and harrisburg have the 1819 pollution in the united

states. harbors medical study concluded that damage conservatively doubles and triples the price of electricity for coal, unquote. on the first anniversary of super storms can be, let's acknowledge the growing human economic cost of climate change related to extreme weather. a center for american progress analysis estimates federal taxpayers spent $136 on climate related federal disaster recovery efforts over the past three years. coal-fired power plants are the largest was a domestic domestic claim that solution. coal-fired electricity is only cheap if one ignores the health and economic cost. there's a positive economic return. the epa estimates for every dollar spent reducing mercury and toxic pollution of a coal-fired power plants will yield $3 to $9.

epa found its predictions of significant mining monsters under the acid rain program and the clean air act of 1990 did not occur. since 2110 epa predicted only 50,000 miners by 2010. in fact, they're repeating 9000 year. advances in technology, market prices and health factors increase the risk and prices using coal. these trends are expected to continue, requiring congress to continue to help families and communities transition to the sustainable jobs. we would respectfully suggest the subcommittee considered to specific actions to increase opportunity for effect as people and communities. first, reduce investment uncertainty created by regulatory confusion. by allowing epa to pursue the common sense rules to protect him a call from a climate, companies have the certainty they need to make pollution control investments strategically plan for new business opportunities in clean energy technologies and develop new employment opportunities. the draft bill by representative

whitfield and minchin yesterday would prolong uncertain t., stowing investments will help in economic damages continue to mount. second, develop a comprehensive community assistance strategy in order to help identify pathways for a prosperous future for communities. one important change for early vesting in retirement and pension plans for poll workers near retirement age. younger workers, education and job training assistance should be offered as it was in the clean air act of 1990. those interested in developing carbon capture and storage technology to burn coal without carbon in government accounting has been under way to make the technology a reality is to have a limit on carbon pollution. we would welcome the opportunity to work with you to develop these and other ideas and we hope to soon have a hearing on the cost of inaction on climate change on public health and taxpayers. thank you.

>> i think at this point we're going to take a quick break so members can vote and come back. will be as quick as possible. don't go anywhere, please. we'll be back within probably about 10 minutes. thank you. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> or ruby in order, please. we will commence our hearing here and now turn to mr. lund, recognize her five minutes. go ahead. spinet thank you, chairman murphy and committee members.

thank you for the opportunity to speak to you today. i went through my nose here and not a lot of things have to try and be sure and quick. you've heard a comment and now. my name is olen lund, a former celtic county commissioner. i understand about the impact will mining hub in our local economy. delta county is a midsize county in western colorado with the primary industries of agriculture and coal. neither -- i did work for environmental research firm on the surface environmental air quality evaluation is being set up.

i am here basically to speak on behalf of my neighbors and friends. i also note that nobody is paying my way. i came here and it's a long ways as representative degette will vouch. i came here on my own. a lot of people were excited literally that they come here and testify for them. what i want to talk about trying to convey is this more than just impact on jobs. there's more than impact on families. it really fair impacts on the community. that's what i want to talk about. there are three coal mine basically two in a neighboring county but because of the topography, nearly all of the workers live in delta county. all of the coal shipped out by railroads, comes to delta county. so delta county is the location

most impacted from coal mine occurs. the one coal mine in delta county is the number one property taxpayer in the county. the interesting thing to note is after that, the next largest is the river company, which has a story that serves the, although not exclusively dedicated to the mines, the vast majority of the freight the railroad pulses produced by the mines. the next largest customer -- i mean, taxpayer is the world a lot take co-op. so it permeates extensively. it permeates the income of the county. somewhere between 901,000 people, which is almost 10% of the workforce of delta county employed by those three minds. coal production is like any

other business that employs people. there's questions i guess different numbers thrown out. but we figure those dollars turnover seven times within the community, giving the community itself. if you close the mine or the mines in this case come he not only was the primary jobs of production, you also lose their jobs to support primary jobs. in other words, use a grocery stores, dry cleaners, car dealerships, mechanics, parsers, et cetera. in government services, you definitely lose clinics and hospitals. you've even the gift shops. i had one person i talk to you as i was talking to different ones about coming here and what i would say told me about a gift shop their family man. as long as coal miners were working, they did well. as soon as the coal mines faltered, they didn't have the

income and the gift shop went out of business. that's the case with a lot of small businesses. i just picked a good shot because typically in combat as more of a tourism type business. as i mentioned earlier, i talked to a lot of people the past few days and ask them what i should share with you. almost invariably i've been told at the mines shut down, it would be devastating to the local society and our society would dry up. i don't think that is the most effect way to tell you just what the situation is. i see that i'm getting my one-time here comes when local further local further. i've gotten written testimony to really explain how these things affect the community as a whole, not just those production jobs lost. in summary, but you certainly think the committee for the opportunity to speak your look forward to answering any questions i can. spinet thank you, mr. lund.

i apologize for saying your north. fewer southeast across from kennywood. you're not recognize or five. when introduced before i mistakenly said north. >> that's okay. >> chairman murphy and everyone, thank you for the opportunity to share my thoughts today. my name is john federman and of the mayor braddock, pennsylvania. braddock is a small town on the river where both the steel industry andrew carnegie got their start with the signing of the upper thomson steel plant in 1875. braddock is hard-core blue-collar and the quintessential milltown. so much so hollywood recently found a $40 million movie about life starring christian bale, woody harrelson and forest whitaker being released in december. during the second half of a century, my community sustained a 90% population loss and is perhaps the poorest community and the commonwealth.

no one testifying today or any day before this body but cannot find braddock in terms of economic hardships, importance of good jobs and lessons of the free market. many people speaking today will present you with what i respectfully believe is a false choice. we as a society must choose between a healthy environment or a healthy industry. as a parent of two children under the age of five and a wife expecting a third, my wife and i are grateful for the last steel mill in the entire region in our community. grateful for the java provides, tax revenue provides. grateful for that prided instills. his parents, also grateful for the perp or environmental controls, safeguards and protections the epa and other governmental regulations provide. you see, my feeling of that dreck across the street, which runs 24/7, 365 days a year. living embodiment of a healthy coexistence regulation and

industry. yet another -- [inaudible] >> is your microphone not working? >> if you can put your microphone ports and two, that might help. >> of course is a product of coal. however, it seems the primary reason, thankfully we do not have to choose between jobs and our health. i believe anyone here today have to do the same. especially since the primary reasonably was facing charges are due to the fundamental free market forces that favor natural gas. however, do not take the small-town mayor's word for it. a much more informed spokesman is the largest producer of coal in the eastern united states. on monday, sold five of their largest. a company based in pittsburgh said on a conference call with reporters that five main themes

told to transaction worth 3.5 billion they are quote very profitable business in a very stable business, unquote. furthermore from "the new york times" council is planning to increase production 30% a year to the next three years and in the next 10 years will invest 14 billion in developing marsalis shale in western virginia and nearly a billion in my soul shall in pennsylvania. along with retaining 2.5 billion in pennsylvania coal mine its retaining. that's according to the largest producer in eastern u.s., not only are they drastically ramping up their investment in natural gas to the tune of 22 billion, their current business is a very profitable, very stable, readily found a buyer and a retaining my home state of pennsylvania. very respectfully, this did not sound like an industry enters each. instead, it sounds like an

industry responding for the free market, something traditionally considered a virtue, particularly for friends across the aisle. increasingly domestic energy production and moving towards energy independence is something we as americans cannot be proud of. government should not be in the business of picking winners and losers. that is the job of the free market. the government should be in the business of protecting citizens for sensible, environmental legislation, including regulating carbon. thank you. >> thank you. mr. pippy for five minutes. >> thank you, mr. chairman. the privilege to be here with you today. i had the privilege of being a cdl. i give you a snapshot of pennsylvania coal. we represent pennsylvania ranks fourth in it comes to coal mining in the country. we have over 41,000 jobs.

$7.5 billion impact any significant role in the electricity production and our commonwealth over 42%. .. the department of environmental protection in pennsylvania says that our levels will be below the 2,005 co2 levels. that would be 17% reduction. by the way, ironically that is

what the president is asking for it in his reduction plans are if you get out of our way we could actually get it done with our market forces. one of the things we like to argue that talk about many times is that right now it is suffering three challenges. the first two are normal. one is the economy. no one is arguing that we are out of the recession yet and that's having a tremendous impact. and the energy usage side so that the market. natural gas right now is that one of the lowest it's ever been. no one's arguing again although i would point to the updating numbers about 250 something three of last year it was about $3.50. once it hits $4 it starts. in 2013 coal had seen an increase of 8% in the united states over natural gas but that's in the market fluctuation. no one argues that. we anticipate and can deal with

it. the third part is what we are here to talk about which is the regulatory burden that the epa in particular is putting on aspect most egregiously it is a new standard that would limit the co2 in the shins to a level that is not reachable with current technology. back in 92 when i was at west point i was the first to graduate as an environmental engineer. and up and coming field. i believe in technology can help the world a better place and to deal with the legacies we have had in the past, however we have to recognize what is occurring. my friends will say that natural gas is going to continue to be cheaper. that isn't true. you use your own numbers from the eia and they anticipate it will be $4. by 2020 it will be over 2025 and coal will still be under four. by 2030 it will be $8 by $20,401,212.

by 2040, cold is predicted to be at $5. so you either want to have twice the cost of energy, or begin with portfolio which we could argue is in the best interest. i was going to talk about greene county in particular but because of the amount of time i will suggest the challenges we're facing in some of the comments said. it is our largest coal producing county that they make about 85,003 at you can read the testimony. some have argued that the people in the room today that we deserve to get involved in the climate change. i would argue 100% as an environmental engineer we need to have that debate but when you have that debate you have to tell the people the truth. you have to tell them that the u.s. coal emissions are less than 3% of man-made which are less than 3% of total greenhouse gases that if we completely eliminate the co2 from the coal producing we would have a minimal impact on the global greenhouse gas emission. and these are all numbers that are coming from the coal mine from your own government.

so i would argue that if you care about global climate issues, we would be looking at a global solution. i am okay with the hand free market engaged. that's normal. that's technology. that's what america was made of. what i'm concerned about is the sludge hand of government with the regulations that's not achievable with current technology. please look at your own numbers and you will see that even they are predicting that we won't get there until 2025 for the earliest. if we get there in 25, if us by regulation. not right now. i appreciate the opportunity to testify. and thank you so much for the time. ischemic appreciate all the witnesses speaking today. i'm going to yield myself five minutes and go back and forth with questions for everyone. judge rock thank you for your testimony. you are responsible for making sure the county has the money to operate; am i correct? spin it as service correct.

>> how has it affected your budget? >> a large majority of the budget comes back through the coal tax charged on the per time rendered to get what we have seen is a 25 percent decrease in revenue. ultimately, it is going to have a negative impact on public safety because with the large number of folks that are unemployed or the tax revenue, just general tax revenues down. when the severance which is affected by production is down, it's going to affect how we have our jails, ambulance services, animal control. it will lead to more layout in the public government. so it's really -- congressman waxman said a hurricane could hit. i would say to him if he were here we are facing an economics and tsunami as a result of this. >> you also witnessed

homelessness. how does the county provide for the homelessness declining budgets and has the population growing? >> fortunately, we supplement out. some of the things that we have done or in part. we have local missions that have picked up the slack and assist us with our homeless shelters. we use the severance funds as a line item as a budget surplus to supplement. once that is gone or diminished we will have a pretty good hand as it applies. >> you said you are the business manager for about 2,000 of the makers. how much do they make on average what is their annual income in general? >> about 75,000 a year. >> and during the good times when they are laid off, mr. white talked about other training opportunities to get other jobs etc. do you have any comment on that to start new careers and training and move onto other

things? >> training for new jobs at this point what kind of jobs? that's all they know. i wouldn't even know where to send them for new jobs. these are great paying jobs that are going by the wayside, you know that's all we've done all our lives. i've been at this for 40 years and i wouldn't even know where to send these guys. we chase the steel industry out of the country. we chased the auto industry out of the country. now we are going to send the power industry out of the country? i just don't understand. we need to be put on an even playing field. we are selling our coal to china and india. and they are not held at the same standards. yet we are going to shut down our coal fired power plants and send all of our jobs out of the country. i don't understand what we are thinking about. this is my president. i voted for obama.

i went door-to-door and asked people to vote for this president. all i want is to be put in the hands of congress. i think that this is congress ' job for the bill and what should go on here. not the epa. epa shouldn't be setting the standard for what's going on right now. that's why i am here today. >> i'm going to ask each of you one question and make it extra in the short like five seconds because in the past we have a director of the epa who said she didn't look at the impact of jobs of regulation. if each of you had one thing to say to her very briefly, what would it be? cannot shame on you. >> what would you say to the -- with regard to looking at jobs and the issue of epa regulations what would you say? >> shame on you that is a good one. >> mr. horton, what would you say?

>> spee2. >> mr. weiss? >> work with the congress to develop a plan that would help the situations we have been working on to protect public health. >> i would say how can you not consider that? is about what the government's job is? >> i would also agree the jobs are an important consideration. >> to make decisions based on that. >> in the interest of time and moving forward i'm going to yield now for five minutes. >> thank you very much mr. chairman. mr. weiss, the share of the u.s. generation has been in decline for years to be long before the epa regulations became sort of to come into effect; is that correct, yes or no? >> yes it is. >> and can you tell us briefly about the market forces that have caused this to happen in our economy? >> while the biggest thing is another american innovation which is the development of hydraulic fracturing.

it needs oversight as i know you are familiar with has opened up the possibility of producing shale gas. we have a huge increase in supply. the price has dropped. the price for natural gas is $2.75 yesterday. >> now, mr. pippe said yesterday that the economic factors won't continue and that in fact cole will become economically superior to natural gas. do you agree with those statistics? >> i believe that coal is not economically superior to natural gas and won't be until you incorporate the cost of healthcare damaging to the global warming damage from burning coal into the cost of the cold. >> speaking to that, mr. weiss, natural gas also has advantages in the environmental effects. can you briefly explain what those advantages are? >> yes, burning natural gas this is almost no mercury, almost no sulfur, less nitrogen oxide.

almost no particles which mr. pippy's town has the worst amount of particles in the country. and that can trigger asthma attacks and harm people who have heart conditions. >> well, but you know, somebody -- i forget i think it was mr. pippy -- i don't mean to pick on you mr. pippy -- testified that the amount of pollution from coal is actually very small in this country. do you agree with that? >> no. coal for electricity is the source of one third of all of the climate change pollution in the united states. i think the point that he was making is that it is such a small share of the worldwide emissions then why bother regulating is? but in fact any single source is a small share. in fact, we need to -- the united states has already led the fuel economy standards. now we need to lead on clean electricity. then we can get other countries to follow and hopefully make the technologies they are going to use. >> so it can go around the

world. >> that's right. >> i yield the balance of my time to mr. doyle. >> thank you. i don't sit on this particular subcommittee that i wanted to wave onto the committee today because this is an important issue and we have three distinguished from pittsburgh on the panel. i have no mr. ventrone for a long time. he fights for his workers and, believe me, we share your concerns. our marriage from braddock. my dad worked there for 32 years and i grew up near the town. and john pippy is also another good friend. energy never used to be a partisan issue in this congress. i've been here 19 years. it's not a democrat or republican issue. we need energy to power this country. and you said something i agree with. this should be congress response ability to do this and what is frustrating to a lot of members on my party is that if we try to do this comprehensively two years ago. we couldn't get bipartisan support to pass a bill that would help give coal a future to

read we dare not put all of our eggs into the natural gas basket. i want to say that right now. it is a dangerous prescription for the future to read w as we e whole breadbasket. we need new clear, we need renewables, we need them all you and if we become too dependent on any one source of energy that is going to be very dangerous for a country. but for cole to have a future, we need to invest in the technologies that allow us to permit cleaner. just like a new clear we have a disposal problem. it emits greenhouse gases that we have a debate over what to do with the amount in -- yucca mountain. this is in addition to the moon project onewproject on researcho deal with this issue. maybe the answer is at the front end of the cold before it goes into the furnace. we don't know because we've not made this important enough to put our best and brightest people on it. on the cap and trade bill which we were not able to get passed in congress that i sat on the

committee and supported, we were going to have $10 billion allocated to the clean coal demonstration products and technology to give a future in this country so that we could coexist environmentally to keep the jobs in the country. that is what i want to see the congress start to do that now we are in a sequester. and what that means is that the discretionary part of the budget that funds research is being greatly curtailed. so why we are in a sequester the idea that we could generate the money or get the votes to spend the money to do this is very questionable. so, i think what we need to do as a congress as democrats and republicans need to work together and find the technology solutions that allow us to have the breadbasket of choices, coal, nuclear, natural gas and renewables and that is in the best interest of the country and that is what people like myself and both parties ought to be about. >> thank you for the courtesy. i now turn to the gentleman mr. gingrey for five minutes.

>> mr. chairman, thank you mr. weiss a second ago mentioned the large amount of pollutants released into the air by burning coal. well, none of the pollutants as he mentioned to my knowledge are what we would call greenhouse gases. and indeed, the coal industry in response to the epa rules and regulations under the clean air act has done a great job of reducing these classical pollutants on fossil for dioxide of particulate matters. all of these things. but what the epa has done basically as they keep moving the goalpost. and all of a sudden because of the supreme court allowing them to do that, greenhouse gases, which could result in global warming are polluted. i am putting out a lot of co2 right now, and i hope i'm not making any of you sick. but that's what we are talking

about here. just making it absolutely impossible for this industry. i want to thank chairman murphy for holding the hearings come educating members of the subcommittee and the obama administration continues and make no stake about it, war on coal is what it is in the local community. and we heard that from several of our witnesses. i want to thank each of the witnesses today for providing a unique perspective on how these looming regulations will harm your communities. mr. tremaine, like many of the panel, my home state of georgia has been negatively impacted by these epa regulations. earlier this year georgia power, the main subsidiary of the southern company serve 2.4 million customers in georgia out of 10 million. and almost every county of the state. they announced that they were closing 15 cold and oil fired power plants as a result of the recent regulations. this alone has significantly impacted almost 500 jobs.

since the epa has announced these heightened regulations, 303 coal-fired units in the 33 states will be closing. in addition to the potential increase in the energy cost for the local communities, and it may take a few years, yes when the price of natural gas goes back up. i would like to focus on the further economic impact of the plant closers. therefore i'm going to direct my question to mr. brock and mr. ventrone and go into depth how the epa regulations have impacted your local economies. given your role, how have these regulations and plant closures impacted the local tax base with regard to sales and property taxes? >> naturally, when you don't have any competition for the purpose of a home -- purchase of a home that's going to have

declining values on property and we are seeing that. furthermore, we are seeing that those leadoff individuals, whether they be minors or some of you supporting the industry or having a hard time paying their property tax, which, you know, directly impacts the bottom line and the fact they just can't do it. they have to make choices between two we buy medicine and groceries or do we pay our property tax? i think if any of us were faced with those decisions would be a no-brainer. we aren't going to pay the property tax. >> i would echo the same circumstance. i would play now that certainly the direct income from the mine is very important to the economy. but there is still a multiplier of seven. the rest of the community and how the rest of the community survives when the coal mines are gone. how do those individuals pay their property taxes? that is also a very big concern in the county. >> a follow-up to both of you.

we can all agree that these regulations have impacted the private sector. at the same time through the loss of jobs in your local areas, what has been the subsequent impact on a tv essential resources as a result of the tax base? you start. >> of the essential services, depending on what you called essential, i suppose, has had to decrease. i am no longer a commissioner. i was term limited. i was not allowed to run against. but during my tenure as the countcounty commission are basiy our responsibility was finances for the county. there wasn't a lot of things that we have to cut through that tiny and really we left things pretty thin cut cut pretty thin and sparse. when i left office last fall -- and now that there are beginning to be closures, it is basically devastating. as i sat in my earlier summary. >> i'm not going to go back to mr. brock because in the last

second i have left i want to make a comment. the federal government has a bad tendency of forcing a village to kill a gnat and i think that's the problem here. >> writenow mr. yarmouth is recognized for five minutes. >> thank you. let me think ... is a particularly judge brock. it's great to see a fellow kentucky and here and i want to stress that i don't think that there is anyone on either side of the audio but doesn't have a great deal of sympathy for those miners and boilermakers and others that have lost their jobs for whatever reason. i spent a lot of time over the years first as a journalist looking at the situation in appalachia and have enormous affection for that region and the people in it. but when we are talking about epa, we are talking about a variety of issues here and it's an effect on actually the

burning of coal in your particular case, it is the mining of coal. and certain connections. but come it is a different kind of dynamic. it is a work because you are mining coal into people buying cold when there is a demand and when the price is right when they can fill out a profit and keep people working. so, if you look at the employment figures under the obama administration and the coal mining, actually the coal mining from 2,009 until 2013 for the latest figures we have are significantly higher than it was during the bush administration, and in fact the cocoa from 2011 to 2012, a two-year perko according to the mining and the health and safety administration was the largest and highest employment in the coal mining of the last 15 years. so, it's actually engaged in the war on coal as it affects the coal miners you're not doing a very good job on it if the coal mining is actually -- coal

mining and claim it has improved. for the sake of the question, to stipulate the argument that coal mining has been relatively high-level over the last four or five years even though there is no question about there've been some significant layoffs in the last few weeks in kentucky. would you not accept the argument that there is a regional aspect of this and the geological aspects to it as well. that's the nature of the mining operation has something to do with the economics and while in eastern kentucky jobs recently there've been a lot of jobs lost and there've been no jobs lost in wyoming there've been no jobs lost and employment has held relatively high levels. so, wouldn't that indicate that the epa actions are not necessarily the primary factor even much of a significant factor in the coal mining jobs? >> first, i certainly don't

agree with that assessment. what i believe your -- what you're trying to say is it's okay to pick winners and losers. but we are going to have regulation that cause a coal-fired power plant could be shut down. that by necessity needed low sulfur coal is mined in appalachia. those that are still operating, that's why you see in western kentucky on the base and -- basin. >> i see that but -- >> is allowed to continue. if you continue that where are we going to be? we are all going to move to western kentucky come appalachia will dry up. >> my point come as mr. delay also said, back in 2009, we knew the epa or congress had to do something about the coal-fired plants. we knew that then. yet the coal and employment,

coal mining employment still increased from 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012. so if he gets probably -- we need to look for other reasons than epa regulations for the current situation of coal mining employment. i want to ask you just one question. the situation is not unlike judge brock's; -- what steps in revitalizing might be applicab applicable? >> i would piggyback off of the sentiments. sentiment. i was closely involved with the environmental defense fund which i would point out as a conservative idea to work towards removing carbon there were a lot of provisions for

clean coal and that is one of the reasons why it pains me to hear the power plants closing and i know better than anybody perhaps what it's like to lose those amount of jobs but we need a country of the solution and a bipartisan solution. and again, congressman doyle had been on the head and it's time for both sides to work closer together. >> we are really pressed for time. >> i want to thank each of you for being here and i think it's important to realize where we were when the president was sworn in in january in 2,009 that gas prices, the average was $1.84. i can't remember it being under $2 a gallon. history tells us that it was and so this wasn't just about coal. this was a fundamental war on energy by this administration. it is one of the components of

that. you see what we do with a keystone xl pipeline to get something as basic as that done even when the secretary of state's department has determined that the empire of the impact studies are okay and there is no reason not to do that and you see what we try to do on the nuclear energy with the basically removing yucca mountain where the storage has its nuclear fuel and you see particularly what is happening to many of you in the room as we look at the impact on coal, and coal is an important part of our overall energy portfolio. it's important for what we do, for our citizenry. you have to have affordable, cheap fuel sources in this country yet we are one of the few countries that use all of their code natural resources. this is something that we can do in an environmentally safe manner. we need to try to do that. in proof where you can improve,

but the regulatory burden that is upon the coal industry is second to one and it's impacting many of you here and those that you represent and work with. so, coal means jobs and you see that in the impact across the country and it's something that we need to do. and the regulatory burden that the environment protection agency has put on us has been very difficult. and so, mr. ventrone, in your testimony, you mentioned three years ago hundreds of construction workers and boilermakers from the local 154 install state-of-the-art pollution equipment on a 1700-megawatt coal-fired plant. this reflected a significant investment i believe of more than $500 million in the plant; is that correct? >> yes sir. >> these upgrades were up to the standards three years ago; is that right? >> )-right-paren a. >> about what has happened to the plant?

>> gets shut down. >> and that is despite the upgrade. why do you believe that that is the case? >> because now they are under the new standards. they are not going to put their money -- >> the goal posts get moved constantly. okay. we are going to make a good-faith effort to meet the regulatory requirements. you do it and guess what? it is a new game and additional cost. you say is there ever an end and we go back to the philosophy that we see from this administration and from this president when he was on the campaign trail that he would make it so expensive on the regulatory and that he would basically shut down the industry. and we are seeing this. i think that he meant it when he said it. now you are left dealing with this issue of how do you make sure that you are a good citizen and you are in compliance?

you spend a fortune and you are less profitable and guess what? you are no longer in compliance even though you thought that you were going to be. these are difficult enough. >> we have two and a half minutes left. >> i would like to see if -- >> ie will yield the remainder of my time. >> thank you mr. germain and mr. harper as well. i appreciate the witnesses for being here. it's good to see mr. lund from colorado. mr. lund, a couple things you would like to happen at the listening session in denver just a brief comment you hope to share with the epa listening session in denver tomorrow. >> i haven't thought through that, so basically a manager in particular one manager spoke to me just the other day and said really? we are not looking for favors we

are just looking to be able to compete. as the congressman said the goal post cannot be moved. that is what we are looking for. >> all of these issues of compliance and such are really different for what we are producing in our area because we are producing a super compliance on very clean coal. it's almost used as a niche market with others to bring the quality of. now the market of that is going away. where they are going now to sell the coal is overseas. that is where they are shipping the coal out. that has now become the big issue of the ports and how we do that. >> you have 30 seconds and we are hitting the gavel to be a. >> i appreciate it. some of the comments that you have made are the same things in my district which joins your

area being hammered in the same way that yours is. we are doing everything we can and appreciate you being here making comments. we opened up a coal-fired plant, the cleanest in the world when it opened up a year and a month ago in my district and we cannot meet the new regulations if it was implied. and i know they aren't but if they were being applied to the existing facility, the new plant that did everything right wouldn't b get the ranks. i yield back. hispanic i wish we had more time. there was a special ceremony for the speaker of the house who sadly died a few days ago and out of respect for my colleagues in this hearing however ms. albers and johnson, there's a question that you want to submit then we will have the witnesses answered those. in conclusion i want to thank all of the witnesses today and members that have participated in today's hearing. i remind all members they have

ten days as these two separate questions and i would ask the witnesses to respond to them promptly. and with that, the committee is adjourned. [inaudible conversations] we all feel very grateful that we live in the united states of america. it's a unique place and if america was considered to be a product and we do try to sell our product overseas, what is our grand?

and i think that our brand is the constitution, the rule of law and our values system. under that brand and value system, there is a notion of equal under the eyes of the law. under the eyes of that brand of system is to elevate the rights of americans with disabilities. >> a treaty is a law. the argument in favor of the treaty no one can disagree with these arguments. but the question is will the treaty actually have any legal effect that's being offered by the proponents of the treaty. we don't hear citations to articles in the treaty. we don't hear considerations of the report, the concluding observations. but the committee and the right for persons with disabilities. we don't hear that kind of legal analysis that would be appropriate for analyzing the legal impact of the treaty to be a.

the place that is called the mercedes-benz superdome in new orleans where they play and where the title game was two years ago, etc., built entirely at public expense. after hurricane katrina badly damaged. when it hosted football games again that was a feel-good story and rightly, i would say so. but the public paid for all the repairs. they put in a token amount. the public has invested in today's dollars, about a billion dollars of construction. at the mercedes-benz superdome area to the man that owns the new orleans saints keeps the revenue generated there. i think why don't people redial against this? one reason is many of the people don't understand that this is taking place. i think the second reason is they feel like there is nothing they can do about it. it's all based on insider deals

and it is largely based on insider deals. the most recent time there was a vote in miami last year on whether to use public money to renovate the place where the miami dolphins plate and the citizens voted strongly against doing that because they got to vote on it. next come the testimony from the head of medicare. she appeared on capitol hill again this week to explain the problems with healthcare law rollout and the website. we join this hearing with opening statements from the ranking member, tennessee republican lamar alexander. this portion is just over two hours and 20 minutes. welcome. when i was in president bush's cabinet i used to testify before this committee in that seat and i used to think the senators deliberately put the chair download so they could be of high.

so we welcome you. my late friend alex haley used to say lamar if instead of aay speech if you would tell a story someone might listen to you. ofa so here's a story. 16,000 tennesseans have insurance through covertenn. obamacare is countering their policies.en covertenn is an example of what president obama calls "bad apples" a plan that washington decides is a good enough for you. i recently heard from him than of those tennesseans whose polic policy will be canceled january 1. her name is emily. she is 39 and she has lupus you she told me i cannot keep my plan because it doesn't be the standard of coverage. this alone is a travesty,ar she said. covertenn has been a lifeline. with a discontinuation of covertenn, i'm being forced to o purchase a plan through the aloe exchange. my insurance premiums alone will increase a staggering 410% three of my out-of-pocket expense will

increase by more than $6,000 a year. that includes subsidies. please help me understand how this is affordable,p says emil. our healthcare system makes up nearly 20% of our economy, touching the lives of everyer american. . obamacare is pushing that 20% of our economy in the wrong direction. let me repeat, you don't have to change a thing due to the healthcare law. that is the white house website today. but as the president said if the wall is transforming our health care delivery system in theor wrong direction it's more than a website as the president said. it is transforming our health care delivery system in thein

wrong direction we believe by increasing premiums, canceling insurance plans by destroyingong relationships with doctors,or raising taxes, forcing people into medicaid, spending half a trillion medicare dollars on the new programs instead of makingca medicare solvent andre encouragg employers to reduce theirs employees to a 30 hour work week and then having the irs fight americans were threats to fight in them to sign up on a website that doesn't work you t did the president promised if you likeps your healthcare plan you can keep it but it cancels millions of individual policies. and for millions of others, employers are dropping insurance programs as they discovered the added cost ofpi obamacare. for these americans, their promises if you want health care, go find it. on a website the administration says won't be working properly until the end of november that is an unwelcome christmas present only two weeks to shop for and buy a new insurance policy byce december 15 to that

you are covered next year when obamacare outlaws your policy. the president secretary sebelius in charge of implementing this p law. i called him her to resigno resi because it has hurt so many americans. before the internet, he could tell you every day how many records elvis was selling, ford could tell you how many cars, mcdonald's could tell you how many hamburgers it sold,ol congressman isa posted on his website notes from meetings in the obama administration where you are apparently telling each other how many people are enrolling in obamacare but why won't you tell congress and the american people? when the senator has described it as an approaching traineck. wreck. well my grandfather was a railroad engineerec in kansas. his job was to drive the locomotive onto a round table, as they called it, turn it around and headed off in the right direction. that is what our country needs to do. we need to turn this trainntry n around, hit in the right

direction. obamacare is the wrong direction because it expands the healthcare delivery system that we already cost too much. the right direction is more choices, more competition, that lower-cost so americans can afford to bu ay insurance. don't expect republicans to show up on the senate floor with our version of a 3,000 page bill to try to move the healthcare delivery system in the direction that we wanted to go. we don't believe in thatlieve approach. we believe instead in moving step by step in the rightth direction. makee medicare solvent. reform medicare advantage to complete with medicare. make medicaid flexible, encourage employee wellness plans on the small business plans, expand health savings accounts, buy insurance across state lines, change 30 hour work weeks to 40 hours. the 39 -year-old tennessee woman that i told you about who is losing her injuries because obamacare has decided it is that good enough for her, finish the

story with these words, quote this w is one of the biggest betrayals our government has ever committed on its citizens. of you to continue to fight for those like me, she says, who only asked to be allowed to continue to have what we already enjoy. a fair health insurance plan at a fair price. please, find a way to return to affordablepl healthcare rights. my message to emily is that we will doo our best to turn thisbt train around and had our health care delivery system in the right direction so that you can buy and keep healthcare that you afford. spin on behalf of the committeei i would like to welcome thenist administrator for medicaid and medicare services. she was confirmed by the senate on the 15th of this year.

the master's degree in health administration, both from the virginia commonwealthas universy and i know that you are very, very busy these days but i thank you for coming up here to share your experience and answer questions here today. but i would like to do is since this is such a significant subject, we give the witness five minutes. i would indulge the committee would like to give you up to but no more than two to make your opening statement and then wein will have our questions.es welcome and your statement will be made a part of the record in its entirety you please proceed. >> thank you, chairman. ranking member alexander and members of the committee. on october 1, we watched one of

the key provisions of the affordable care act, the new marketplace where people would buy health insurance, including those who could not affordce, health insurance and those who were not part of the group planned to actually go get affordable health care coverage. we know that some consumers aref still having difficulty enrolling in the marketplace m website. and we are focused on identifying and solving those problems quickly. but it is important to remember that bargains on their behalf h for the vestibule for insurance. by creating competition, where there wasn't competition before.

they have created the healthcare plans with new choices. the premiums for coverage on the marketplace are lower than expected and millions of americans will also qualify for tax credits to get it more affordable. people have come dreams of coverage but cannot be taken away, even if they get sickaffo. 700,000time, nearly applications have been submitted from across the nation. more than half in the federal

marketplace alone. this tremendous interest confirms that the american people are looking for quality, affordable health care coverage. that the initial consumer experience on healthcare.gov has been very frustrating for many americans. some have had trouble creating accounts and logging into the site, others have received confusing messages or had to wait for slow-paced loads or forms that fail to respond. in the first few days that we went live, few consumers could create an account. we have now resolved that issue. users can create an account and go through the enrollment process. we are able to process nearly 17,000 restaurants for our -- with almostper hour no errors. we have updated the site several added moreave

capacity and doubled number of servers to meet demand. we reconfigured various system components to improve responsiveness, this has increased performance across the site, but in particular the viewing and filtering of health plans during the shopping experience. in just response seconds, whereas it was taking minutes before. this now response in just seconds. we have resolved issues at the eligibility notices display at the end of the process. consumers can compare plants without registering for an account, this was not working well in the days leading up to worker 1, so we prioritize on the application process and stead. one of our highest priorities was insuring that consumer information was transmitted correctly. our team has worked with issuers to resolve outstanding issues

and all necessary consumer information will be sent to issuers after they have enrolled in the plan of the choice. we will work closely with issuers to identify and solve problems quickly. we have also seen success in the -- improving response time. for the first few weeks, we estimate that users are waiting 8 seconds for pages to load. we have lower that time to less than one second, we will take aggressive steps to bring response times down further. we are pleased with these improvements and parts of the system that are already working well. the routing told that provides an efficient way to verify information submitted by consumers is sending determination to the marketplace seconds.than 1.2 the social security administration has reported 4.2 million transactions with the has responded to

one point three billion requests. consumers can trust that the information they are providing tected and-- is pro that the technology underlying the process has been tested and is secure. at has decades of experience collecting personal information in medicare, we are extending that commitment for the marketplace. any system that is this large is inherently risky. we monitor the security of the as envisioned in the plan and have no serious issues. forrity testing never ends any large system. we continue to improve healthcare.gov, it is important to remember that the website is working, more people are applying and is rolling each week. in addition to the website, there are other ways for consumers to approach healthcare.gov.

can apply by phone on a toll-free number. a representative will work with a consumer to make sure they can complete the process. people can find in person health in their -- in person help in their community to help them understand their options. consumers can fill out a paper application and mail it in, they will find out whether they are eligible for private insurance, medicaid, or chip, then they can go online or contact the call center if they prefer. out of everyee four americans get insurance from an employer, from medicare, medicaid, or the pa system. -- the va system. american to purchase on their on thecoverage

individual market. before the aca, coverage was on orordable, had high co-pays, lacked basic benefits like maternity care, mental health, and prescription drug coverage. these plans had high tenor rates, greater than -- high turnover rates and were not renewed at the end of the year. the health-care law is creating protections for people in the individual market, as well as strengthening employer-based coverage. in the health insurance marketplace, consumers will not be charged more because of their gender or pre-existing condition. beventative services will covered at no additional out-of- pocket costs, there will be caps on out-of-pocket cost, plans will have to offer 10 essential benefits. plans in place before the affordable care act past and have not been changed are fromfathered in and exempt

consumer protections. they must notify their role -- enrolees that they are llees thatred -- enro they are grandfathered. for these enrollees, nothing has to change. receivedls have indications from companies that their plans will no longer exist. they can choose a different plan being offered by their insurer or they can shop for coverage in the market is or outside the marketplace. insurance companies are not shopping consumers, they are improving options, often offering better value plants with additional benefits. the majority of people and the individual market today will qualify for discounted or free health care coverage and signing up for coverage to the marketplace. one study found that not counting the one million who qualify for medicaid, 48% of

people who buy insurance through the individual market will have thatdit -- a tax credit averages over $5,500. the aca is over four years old, we have seen improvements. the opening of the marketplace on october one is the latest step in the implementation of the law, we acknowledge that we have a lot more to do and are ready to do it. thank you, mr. chairman. you, commissioner tavenner. we will start a series of five- minute questions. everyoneld myself and else to five minutes. you might only get one question, that way we can go around once, twice, three times, as long as it takes so people can get questions asked. i hope we will keep within five minutes so everyone gets to ask questions. we'll start now. evaluate the as we

problems with the website, it is important to get the facts straight. some have said that fixing the website could take six months to one year, others state that there are 5 million lines of code to rewrite, others urge you to start from scratch. wring some facts to this overheated debate. -- bring some facts to this overheated debate. i understand this can get you anal, i want to give opportunity to explain in plain --. what is the plan for fixing the website, who is leading, and what is your role? what is the expected timetable for the process? >> let me start with the plan, generaled qssi as the contractor. they were engaged last week. they will be leading the effort, working with me directly. they will be responsible for correlating contracts. --

coordinating contracts. the problems are into categories, the first problem had to do with performance and speed. added capacity and made system performance improvements, that has to do with the hardware side of the equation. that work was done immediately. we have projected demand for the website, we obviously underestimated that demand. we had to go back and catch up and at capacity and improve performance. that is some of what i was referring to in my comment about the slowness of the system. the second issue has to do with software improvements. the first big one was the ability to establish an e-mail account. that was a problem that was solved in the first week. we have had success there, there is not a problem with establishing an e-mail account or going on to identity proof.

now we are into the internal piece of the architecture. i will remind you that this website is covering 34 states. and 50 medicaid programs, also raiseds the state exchanges. it is pretty, located. we knew we would have bugs in the system. we obviously have more bugs, particularly around the application. eriese doing serious -- s of software upgrades seven times a week, we will continue that. you will see improvement week by week. ou address security? there are reports that you had concerns about the site's

security protections. what efforts are we making to ensure that consumers' information is secure? >> that may put it in a couple of different all caps, because there has been a lot of confusion about security. summer,earings over the and lot of the questions i answered and others answered had to do with the security of the hub. the contract you're there is qss i, that serves the federal marketplace and the state as well and has been a smooth operating system. completed by was september, and there was signed off on the hub. the it comes to the ffm, actual exchange, there was testing a component, and then we get a short term operated should

to operate. we had announced proper to october 1 that we would not bring the spanish website up right away. we did a temporary or short-term authorization to operate because we knew we would have to do continuous security testing while those programs were being installed and while software was being updated. there is confusion but what was tested and what was not tested. we need to separate this. >> 527 seconds only. will theyne comes on, be assured their social security number will be kept secure, that no one can hack in and take their number? hubes, and remember the does not secure any information. it is a router. if you fill an application, it irs, butial security,

that is not stored. what is stored is in your individual application, which is secure, and that was part of the front end, which is complicated as we had taken additional steps to make sure that individual applications are secure. we have continuing monitoring of all systems, which we do for medicare as well. >> thank you. >> thanks, mr. chairman. let me go back to the president's words. i am sure you will be able to fix the website, and i am not as concerned about the irs fix that will come next year. what i'm concerned about are the canceled policies and the inability of people to have time after you presumably six the website by the end of november to replace their policies by january 1 so they

will have health insurance. i'm concerned about the kind of health insurance they get because of the large number of cancellation letters that are coming into our office from tennessee. so let me suggest that a way to fix this problem of canceled policies in the individual market is to go to a website that does work pretty well, but still says if you like your plan, you can keep it and you do not have to change a thing to to the health care law. that is the white house website. those are the president's words in 2009. why don't we put those words into law? why don't we solve the problem of emily from tennessee who is losing her coverage in tennessee am a, and finding to replace it more.l cost 410% senator ron johnson has introduced a bill that he calls, if you like your health care plan, you can keep it. it would put the president's

words into law and i sure those millions of americans like emily that they will be able to keep a , andlike covered tennessee she will not be out of insurance on april 1. where talking about millions of americans, so my question is would the administration support senator johnson's bill, which would foot the president's words into law by saying to americans that if you had a plan before the law was passed on march 20 3, 2010, or a plan all the way up to the end of this year that you could keep it? wouldn't that solve a lot of problems and reassure americans that they could have affordable health care? alexander, when we wrote the regulation back in 2010, that is exactly what he did. we grandfathered in existing plans, both in the employer market and in the individual market. there was a lot of back-and-

forth about that regulation, what was the phase-in time, and that is why we delayed it until plans could be grandfathered over this time and we allowed the grandfathering to continue as long as it did not reduce benefits significantly. there were some things put in place. i do think we have put in steps, the ability to keep plans. in these cancellation letters, these cancellation letters are also followed by statement, that says-- >> i want to give a chance to answer, but will you support senator johnson's bill? >> i have not even look at his bill. i would be happy to look at -- >> i will get a copy to you. we know about the relations written in 2010. -- the regulations written in 2010. they made it impossible to grandfather a lot of the plans that people had.

according to your regulations, 40%as estimated that up to of plans would not be able to the grandfather, so didn't you know that there would be a big of these policies and it was wrong to say that if you like your plan you can keep it without having to change a thing? >> i do not think the regulation assumed that it was because of the grandfathering that these plans would change. these plans routinely change. over than 50% a year. this is part of what the affordable care act was designed to do, to try to stabilize the market and get individual some protection. >> but your regulations said if you increased cost sharing, co- pays, change the extent outcome and change the elephants, all those would mean those plans did not continue, and basically washington saying to people like the 16,000 whose their coverage in tennessee, we know better

than you do what is a good plan for you. we want you to buy a better plan even though you like a plan you keep. words put the president's into law and simply say if you like the plan you have -- we will not decipher you, you can decide it -- if you like the plan you have, you can keep it without having to change a thing. that is what was on the white house website today. individuals 16,000 that you listed, they were also given the option of renewing with the new plan. yes, maybe some of those plans were more expensive, but i would encourage those individuals to go on the website, take a look at what is available in the individual market in tennessee. you will see the pricing in the individual market came in about 18% lower. some of these individuals may qualify for a subsidy. i would encourage them to look at their current issue work, but also go on the website, look at

plans available in tennessee, and also check to see if they qualify for subsidies. >> thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you, senator alexander. senator mikulski? >> good morning, administrator tavener. i'm glad to see you. we are very proud of the fact that cms is headquartered in maryland, and there are thousands of people who work there every day in every way try to make sure that nettie care, -- medicare, medicaid, and obamacare is administered efficiently. you have been battered around in the failure to confirm permanent ministry just. we will put that aside for this conversation. the launching of the affordable been more than bumpy. i believe there has been a crisis of confidence created in the dysfunctional nature of the website, the canceling of policies, and sticker shock from

some people. in my state of maryland, it was also happy. sun"ad in "the baltimore that 73,000 marylanders' policies will be canceled. let me get to where i am. it is not to finger point. it is to pinpoint. what i worry about is there is such a crisis of confidence people will not enroll, and the people we need to and role, particularly young people, to make this whole system work will not happen, that people who are most desperate. -- senatorwan xander' letters. alexander's me what you are doing in terms of the crisis of

confidence, but also how are we going to get young people back to looking at how they are going to apply to make it attractive, to give them confidence, and also to make the whole system more affordable? >> let me start with the affordability, and i will talk about those from the state-based exchanges -- 46i have two minutes and seconds. do you have a plan to get young people back? >> yes, we do. we have a plan to stabilize the website this month, and we have a targeted plan that includes not only young people, but the large populations of the uninsured in markets, so yes, there is a plan. >> what kind of plan? of media, bothn television, radio, and some print. it is identified by top markets,

and i will be happy to share that plan with you. >> do you think you will restore the confidence in this plan? >> yes. >> how? >> by the improvements in the website, which we are already seeing, and i would encourage folks who have not been on the website to go on the website. it has improved. we are seeing more folks being able to complete applications. we are getting more positive feedback. there is a tremendous amount of interest in this plan. there's over 700,000 completed applications. we have seen over 13 million visitors to the website. the information is out there, which is needed to ensure that this site is working. >> i would like to go to going to the website, which goes to many of my laurel constituents. we talk a lot about the robust baltimore-washington car door, but not everybody has access to a computer and that everybody knows how to use a computer. is includes young people.

we worry in maryland about the digital divide. o'malley, ben cardin. my question is you say you can go to the phone, are you publicizing this number? if you want to pay for applications or you want to be able to talk to someone in person, as you said, where do you go and where do you get this? are there designated sites? offices,o this in post libraries? where will we do this where people can be able to do this if they are not going to go to a computer or a computer is not available or their friend? >> is a great question. we do advertise the one 800 advertise you can call their if you do not want to use a computer. we advertise who in the community we have currently over

70,000 broker agents who have been trained to assist people. we have navigators in every state, and they are covering the entire state. he advertise that. he also have many hospitals, including libraries, who are offering to help. >> i'm going to be blunt, because i really want this to be a success, and my job is to pinpoint solutions, not finger way., looking at a retro i think it is very confusing. i know my time is up, but i think it is very confusing about where you go. you hear about the navigators and this and that, but i can tell you people really do not know. they really, really do not know. >> senator, i'm sorry, senator isaacson? mr. chairman. thanks very much for coming today. qssiaid that 10 days ago

was put in charge of coordinating the website, is that right? were you aware in june of this year the inspector general thatd a report on qssi said quality software services do not successfully implement risking exposure to personal information for over 6 million medicare beneficiaries? were you aware of that? >> yes, sir. >> i would like to put into the fromd that the i.g. report june, because of their lack of discipline, they exposed over 6 million medicare beneficiaries their information. the reason i bring that up, and i do not believe everything i see on television. i tried to check everything out. this morning, what seemed to be a pretty credible claim that a lawyer in south carolina who have gone on the website and

gotten access to set up an account was called by a man from north carolina, telling him, and he got that man's information. this information security is extremely important. made the-- mike rogers point that it is extremely part -- import. i would ask that you make sure that qssi is in compliance. >> i will follow up on a report. securityactor who does in the marketplace, and we are working with them in this incident in south carolina. we were made aware of that yesterday, and we implemented a software fixed yesterday to fix that. as awill be treated personal identification issue, and we will do a complete follow-up on that. >> you said this was going to be ongoing, because we know

cybersecurity is an ongoing challenge. it is critically important to tell whoever you said the person in charge of security was to deal with qssi and make sure they met compliance. >> i will do so. aboutone who has had about a thousand independent contractors working for me, most of the people who are uninsured or had lack of access were independent contractors because their employer cannot provide it to them. what the unintended consequence i was begin to them, but i had three come up to me, one, and mrs. russell who had the insurance shift she had bought as a contractor who had just received a cancellation notice, had tried to go to the website, could not, had called the toll-free number and gotten help from a human being who said they would send them the information, but they cannot not guarantee them when it would come. i point in this is when we passed the affordable care act, it precluded insurance agents

for being navigators and put in a ratio so high that you could not pay a commission to a salesperson. the only access to the human beings that could be incentivized to tell somebody what is in the plan is either to call the website am ago on the website, or find a navigator. considerms should rethinking appropriations for the medical loss ratio and the unintended consequences of not allowing health insurance agents to be navigators, because that limits access to the information that you want them to have. that is just an janitorial comment. my last segment, if you would put up the chart on the iceberg -- georgia, ihinks of think of ollanta, but there's a lot more of georgia than atlanta . in southwest georgia, remains are doubling. more than doubling in many cases. health insurance costs are going to the roof. when you said the website was only the tip of the iceberg, you were right, because you have tremendous problems and

tremendous challenges, but the biggest one of all are the premium increases to the people who can least afford them. in rural southwest georgia, that is by far the case. on behalf of those georgians, we are seeing a doubling of the premiums, and we need to address that and we need to make sure the unintended consequences of requiring so much coverage is not running people out of coverage rather than providing what the coverage they need. >do you know what is contributed to the cost of role herald -- rural health care going up so much? >> we are not the experts, but the more competition, the better the prices. there was not enough competition to raise -- to lower the rates. -- rates were higher for

before the implementation of the aca. andve seen new entrants, we hope that it will continue to press the pricing downward. >> thank you for your testimony. my time is up. >> senator murray? >> thank you, and thank you for being here and all the work you're putting into this. when we passed the affordable care act we designed it to have states lead the way and drive market reforms by building their own marketplaces. states like kentucky and washington planned and designed and created their own marketplaces, and many states declined the opportunity to build their own marketplace and rely on the federal government to do the work for them. washington state's health plan finder has been a leader on the launch of their new marketplaces, and in its first month enrolled nearly 55,000 people from my state for new

health insurance coverage, including 10,000 kids. i'm very proud of the work that has been done in my state to provide access to quality, affordable coverage, and i wanted to ask you to tell us about what you are seeing in the states, like mine, that develop their own workplaces. i elicit some of the top -- will list a few. all the states are working hard. we have 17 partners at the state level, including d.c., and i would say that what we're seeing in washington and kentucky is probably some of the strongest performance, which is great. have had lots of application interest. the other areas that i would say we are pleased with because of the size of the states is new york and california, where we are seeing good progress. each of the states are moving along, and part of what we will be submitting in mid november, as i have talked about in previous hearings, is information about applications and enrollments that will look

at the state and what is inside the state as well as the federal marketplace. we will have more data for you. >> we want some of those states use best practices? >> we are indeed. we meet with them regularly. >> ok, and i wanted to ask you about the next round of outreach to americans and what it will look like. everybody has focused on the website and we know it is improving, and those will be solved. obviously, a lot of americans are frustrated by their initial applications, and we have got to get them to return to the site. the crisis of confidence that senator mikulski talked about. in addition to those people, i want to know about the administration's plan to reach out to those americans who individually purchased lands are being canceled by the companies. there is a story in our people a 56-year-tle about old woman who received one of those cancellation notices and

like a lot of other people who was told to blame the affordable care act in that letter. of course, she was not told that if she accessed the aca marketplace it could save her and her family thousands of dollars and provide her with upgraded, more comprehensive health-care coverage. a similar story, and that is an important reminder that it will be an uphill battle against some political and industry interests to get those individuals good information, that have received those letters, and i wanted to know what you are doing to get information out of those people whose policies have been canceled. >> this is actually a conversation we are having today we have ato we -- consumer assistance program within cms, and is there a way we can actively engage to reach out to people who have been canceled? although they are canceled, they are offered another policy, but

what is important for them to understand it is not just that policy. it is also the ability to go on exchange. in washington they do not even have to apply. they can look at what the rates are. they can do that on the federal exchange as well. they're working on a plan and i will be happy to get back with you, but give back to the street. >> that is important because a lot of them are seeing their policies have been canceled by about care and not being told there is what your options are. we have to work on that. thank you, mr. chairman. enzie?tor >> thank you. i am from a low population states, and we do recognize that the problems of the website are just the tip of the iceberg him much as this chart demonstrates back here. saturday, 2600 people in wyoming had their policies canceled.

fortunately, three years ago i noticed that the roles were changing -- rules were changing and people were not be able to keep what they were promised. we have a method of petitioning that, called the congressional review act to my we had a debate about repealing the rule that would've kept them from keeping the policy that they like. own onas voted d straight party lines and people will be paying for that in the next election. on the accountants, i will go to the more technical questions with this website. it is my understanding thatt cgi's contract is a cost plus contract where the company will be paid for their work while they straighten out problems that they maybe even cause. how much moral the cost to fix -- how much more will it cost to

fix the website, and if it is their fault for delivering a product that did not meet specifications, do you intend to recover payments and what recourse is available? >> you're correct. contract is a cost plus contract. there is not additional funding being c provided togi. they will make these repairs within the contract. i meet regularly with not only global, including one at a: 30 this morning. they expect work to be completed. there is a recovery process in a cost plus contract, but i will have to get you that information. i would not want to rely on my brain for that one, but i will work with the contracting people. >> i would like to get a copy of the contract as well, and there must be a contract with qssi as well. is that cost plus as well?

>> i will have to get you the details on the qssi, but i thought we had -- and we can certainly get you the information you requested. >> where is cgi headquartered? >> in virginia. >> jok. and qssi? >> a good question -- minnesota? i'm guessing on that one. also offices in virginia. we are working with both the national and local there in virginia, and they are also in maryland. >> i also served on the finance committee, and in the finance committee, cms testified on doing the testing on this website. we were assured that it had all been done. it is my understanding there was testing still going on the day

before the website opened and that there had not been the either wassting that called for or was not called for. how much security testing was done as part of the data testing? >> this is what i was trying to explain earlier. there are two components to the federal exchange. one is the hub, and that was completely tested, security testing, signed off, and in the ffm, or the actual exchange itself, each component was tested by us independently come a verified, security tested, and it was night -- not signed off in a so we signed ae,

short-term authorization to operate, which would be customary if you were continuing to do work on the project. also mention this information that goes in there there and not in stored. how do you identify the person later if there is not any of that information kept. >> the social security number is not stored in the data hub. completed an application, it has this information in an an individual can store that online. that is part of the proofing that an individual can do to store their application. we also have some storage in what i will call the enrollment eligibility russes in case there is an appeal. what i was trying to say there's no data stored in the hub. we have information on record. are do not think people cared where it is stored. they are cared about -- they

care about their privacy. my time is almost up. thank you. i. thank you, senator enz senator bennett? >> thank you, mr. chairman. take you for being here today. approach tohis local and state and government here, i hope as we go forward we do not lose sight of the fact that government does not do a great job with procurement, with .t., or with customer service, and we're seeing that in spades. as ane is we use it occasion not just to point fingers but to improve -- things for the american people. in the short term, i think that customer service element is an enormously important so we do not face the crisis of confidence senator mikulski talked about. that should be job number one, to figure out that people -- but

the politics aside. whether people sitting at their kitchen table can decide and evaluate for themselves whether this is a better deal or not for them. in colorado, as you know, we set up our own exchange. one of the things i have been told is that people have to go through 20 pages to have a determination made about the medicaid eligibility before they can actually get access to the private marketplace. and there has been some suggestion that that has been required by the federal government. i don't know whether that is true or not, but i wonder whether you can enlighten me on that or shed some light on it and whether we can figure out how to work together to make that less of a burden to people. he cause it seems to me that customer service friendly website would say -- if you think you might be eligible for medicaid, click here. take me through that. but for somebody he knows they are not eligible, to skip the 20 pages, means they get to the private exchange.

think -- >> i am sorry, as you talk about that, can you broadly address the question of customer service part of this? the changes that you have made to try to give people the opportunity on the federal exchange to make their own decision. it is me start by saying, a common application, whether you are going on to shop without a subsidy or to see if you qualify for a subsidy or for medicaid. and i think that is what you are referring to, the common application. but whether you are medicaid areible or whether you applying for subsidies, it is a single application. so, medicaid doesn't add any additional steps to that process. my understanding -- and again, this is the colorado exchange and not the federal. my understanding is a you need to be denied by medicaid before to shop ine access

the private marketplace. >> so, i would need to check with colorado. >> let's do that. can we do that today? >> yes. the customer service issue is very important to us. as we stabilize the site, we will go back and deal with those individuals that we think may have had a bad experience am a such as a establishment of an e- mail account. --have individuals' in the information so we will reach out and invite them to come back. some may have gone ahead and created a separate account or maybe they were just on their out of curiosity. but at least we will make an effort to go back and get in touch with individuals and say if you had trouble in the first week am a leave, come back and try to establish your account again, because we solved the problem. that is the first step. the second step is how we handle it in the media and the market. sowe