that society casts for innovation. >> over the past 15 years booktv has aired over 40,000 programs about nonfiction books and authors. tv every weekend on c-span2. .. >> congress is out today this recognition of the veterans' day

holiday. both chamber withs return tomorrow at 2 p.m. eastern time. the house will consider a series of suspension bills are votes postponed until 6:30. over in the senate, a period of general speeches until 4:0 when the senate will take up a nomination for the d.c. court of appeals. a procedural vote will follow at 5:30. the senate may also hold a test vote on compounding pharmacies. you can watch the house live on c-span, the senate live here on c-span2. >> c-span, created by america's cable companies in 1979, brought to you as a public service by your television provider. >> host: well, for the first time in months, federal communications commission has a full complement of commissioners; new chairman tom wheeler and republican michael o'reilly have been confirmed by the senate. joining us this week to discuss

the fcc's agenda for the coming year, sam gustin of "time" magazine. mr. gustin, what do you think is the number one priority right now for the fcc? >> guest: well, i would say the biggest priority, the biggest immediate be priority is the spectrum incentive auction that's scheduled for next summer. and that's an effort by the fcc to sell existing wireless spectrum that's opened by the tv broadcasters -- that's owned by the tv broadcasters for use by the big wireless companies to address the growing spectrum crunch which is being driven by the massive proliferation of smartphones and tablets. >> host: well, at his confirmation hearing, tom wheeler talked about the upcoming spectrum auctions. here's what he had to say, want to get your response. >> the incentive auction, as i said, is something that's never been tried before, and i liken

it to a rubik's cube, that over on this side of the cube you've got to provide an incentive for broadcasters to want to auction their spectrum. on this side of the cube, you have got to provide a product that is structured in such a way that incentivizes the wireless carriers or whoever the bidders may be to want to bid for that spectrum. and then in the middle of this on an almost realtime basis, you have to have a band plan that is constantly changing to reflect variables that are going on here. that's why this has never been tried before. this is a monumental undertaking. and all of the pieces create value for the broadcasters and value for the wireless industry

to pay for firstnet and to provide something for the american taxpayer all have to go into this incredibly complex rubik's cube. >> host: sam gustin? >> guest: he's right. this is the most complicated spectrum auction that the united states or any government has ever attempted, and there are a number of technical and other market challenges. on the one hand, as he says, you these to create an incentive for the tv broadcasters to be willing to out their spectrum on the block. in other words, you have to set up a structure so that the price is high enough that they would be willing to give up this very, very valuable spectrum. on the other side of the coin, you these to set up a structure that has enough bidders to be able to drive up the price. and and there's been some discussion about whether some of the wireless companies might be excluded, for example, verizon, at&t, the two largest wireless

companies in the united states already own massive amounts of spectrum, so there's been be some discussion about possibly excluding them. but that might have a negative impact on the auction itself. so these are issues that the fcc is going to have to work out. and i might add that the auction is currently scheduled for next summer, but due to the monumental complexity of the auction, it actually may get pushed back further than that. >> host: well, sam gustin, gigi zone has been appointed by tom wheeler, does that say anything about how the auctions will be conducted? >> guest: well, the appointment be of gigi to the fcc senior staff was a surprising development because, of course, gigi for many, many years has been one of the most prominent and respected critics of the fcc

and just a really fierce advocate for the public interest and consumer rights. so i think in a number of ways chairman wheeler appointing gigi might be sending a signal to the the public interest community that he is if not sympathetic, certainly willing to be engaged with the public interest community to an extent that perhaps as not occurred, you know, during previous fcc administrations. so as far as the spectrum auction is concerned, i think having gigi as a member of the senior staff will mean that there will be a strong voice for the public interest in the chairman's office, and i think that that is, that's a good thing from my point of view.

>> host: why? >> guest: because i think that one of the tough things about the fcc is that it's, it can be a heavily politicized agency. i mean, it's basically stuck in between competing constituencies. on the one you have the nation's largest wireless companies, you have the big cable companies, you have the internet companies ask all of their attendant lobbyists and interest groups. and then on the other hand, you have the american people, the public. what the fcc does affects anyone who uses a cell phone, a smartphone, a tablet, anyone who watches tv, and that means all of us. so the interests of these different constituencies are not always aligned. and one of the challenges at the fcc is trying to balance these competing constituencies. and, you know, for example, chairman wheeler served as a

lobbyist for not one, but two industry groups for many, many years both the cable industry and the wireless industry. so i think a lot of people in the public interest community were a little concerned by that. so i think it's good that there is a very, very strong advocate for the public interest in the chairman's office. >> host: what do the lobbyists from are verizon, at&t and some of the larger companies think about gigi sohn's appointment? >> guest: well, they have not issued statements yet. i know that the big companies are enthusiastic and hopeful about chairman wheeler. traditionally, gigi -- who for many years served as president of public knowledge -- has occasionally found herself on the other side of a lot of issues from the big wireless and

cable companies. so, again, i'm not going to -- i wouldn't want to speculate about what they might think about her appointment. but, again, i do think it's good to have a real strong public interest advocate if the chairman's office for balance. >> host: well, tom wheeler had been cleared by the commerce committee many months ago but then was held up in the senate because of so-called disclose act. here's an exchange he had with senator ted cruz about the disclose act. >> in your judgment, does the fcc have the authority to implement the disclose act or to otherwise regulate political speech? >> um, as i have said before, that's an issue that i look forward to learning more about. there is a pending proceeding on that exact question, and i need to look at that proceeding and to become informed. but i do not miss the expression

on both sides of this as to the strong feelings, and i know this is an issue of tension. >> well, mr. wheeler, as you know, every republican on this committee along with minority leader mitch mcconnell sent a letter to your predecessor on this issue. and you and i visited in my office, you said you need to study the issue more. i would ask you to submit in writing an answer to this question. and i would note as you and i visited privately this is the one issue that, in my opinion, has the potential to derail your nomination. and i don't want to see that happen. i think the commission has a very important role. but should the commission leave that role and get into the business of regulating political speech, we've seen with the irs what can happen when members of congress urge the executive branch to begin playing politics. and so i look forward to reading

your written response in terms of whether you believe the commission has the authority to implement the disclose act or to regulate political speech. >> thank you, senator. >> host: sam gustin, what is the disclose act, and does the fcc have authority over its regulation? >> guest: the disclose act is a bill that is currently stalled that is designed to increase transparency in political ad funding. so what it would do is it would require super pacs, third party groups, unions and others to notify the fec, the federal elections commission, when they spend more than $10,000 on political ads. and this was sort of an outgrowth of the supreme court's citizens united decision which

reduced the transparency associated with political ad funding. so after that, after citizens united a lot of groups, public interest groups pushed the disclose act which, again, would increase transparency in political ad funding. a lot of democrats support it, public interest groups support it. many, many republicans oppose it. senator cruz and a lot of his colleagues in the senate have opposed it. as he said, they wrote a letter to former chairman genachowski in which they said that the disclose act raises serious first amendment concerns. and because the bill is stalled, some democrats and some advocates for the bill have suggested that the fcc could use its existing authority over the tv broadcasters to implement some portions or requirements of the disclose act. now, senator cruz does not believe that the fcc has such

authority, and that was really what was at the heart of that exchange. and he wanted assurances from tom wheeler that the fcc would not attempt to implement the requirements of the disclose act by fiat as senator cruz said because, again, senator cruz does not believe that the fcc had the authority. now, on the other hand, some people do believe that the fcc has the authority to implement the requirements of the disclose act. last year the fcc passed a rule requiring many of the top broadcasters in the top media markets to actually put information about political ad funding online. so it's really a matter of dispute right now about whether the fcc has the authority to implement the requirements of the disclose act or not. and, again, that was at the heart of that exchange with senator cruz. and then finally, last week senator cruz met with tom

wheeler, and tom -- privately -- and tom wheeler assured senator cruz that implementing the requirements of the disclose act is, quote, not a priority for the fcc. that assuaged senator cruz's concerns. he lifted the hold, and tom wheeler was promptly confirmed be i the senate. >> sam gustin, what about the issue of media ownership? is that going to come up in the next several months at the fcc? >> guest: that will definitely come up. for many years media concentration has been a major issue for the fcc. there was a lot of criticism about comcast's purchase of nbc universal which, essentially, come wined the largest cable -- combined the largest cable company in the united states with one of the crown jewels of the american media business, nbc universal, the peacock network, the movie studio, etc.

so there was a lot of criticism about that. there are also rules regarding media ownership in cities around the country. so, for example, in places like new york or los angeles or other big media markets, there are rules that prohibit big media companies from owning too many media outlets across media. so, for example, newspapers, television stations, etc. and the fcc is currently working to reform the media ownership rules. and, of course, a lot of the big media companies advocate relaxes the restrictions so that they're able to own more outlets in a given market. but members of the public interest community have traditionally argued for what's referred to as diversity or

localism, more local independent stations. so there really is a tension. so, yes, that's going to be a big issue for chairman here, for sure. >> host: well, another issue that she discussed at his -- that he discussed at his confirmation hearing was on fcc processes. here's a little bit of the new chairman. >> there are so many components of the effect of the auction that you have to say that auction is a top priority. but on a more mega scale, i've spent a lot of time dealing with the fcc in my life, and it is important that the agency make decisions and make decisions in a timely fashion. there's nothing worse for investment, innovation, job creation, all the things that

flow from investment than businesses not knowing what the rules are. and so i would hope that in an overarching scope of things that we would be able with my colleagues, because i am very aware that this is a commission, not a sole proprietorship, but with my colleagues we would be able to identify issues ask move with dispatch. >> host: sam gustin, what does that mean? >> guest: well, i think chairman wheeler's right. the fcc is one of the most baroque, slow-moving agencies in the federal government. if you take a look at some of the rulemaking processes, some of the other activities that the fcc does, it's just incredibly complicated, dense, highly technical material.

rule makings take so much time, i mean, years and years and years. and if you look at some of the statements that chairman wheeler has made just in the last week, he really has emphasized this notion of speed and timeliness. so i am certainly hopeful, ask i think a lot of people are hopeful, that he can increase the metabolism at the fcc, get things moving a little faster and also, quite frankly, increase the transparency at the agency. because even, sometimes even experts can't fully understand what the fcc is doing because, again, a lot of this stuff is extremely technical and extremely baroque. and chairman wheeler is absolutely right, with the slow-moving agency like this, the that deliberates for months and even years on end, it really does create uncertainty. and as we all know, uncertainty is the enemy of business.

business needs certainty to be able to invest. and if there's one thing we need in the united states in terms of broadband and communications infrastructure, we need investment with dispatch, as chairman wheeler might say. so i think it's really, really important, and i'm certainly hopeful that chairman wheeler really makes an effort to try to pick up the pace, improve the he tab limb and also -- metabolism and also improve the transparency at the agency. >> host: in a recent blog post on the fcc's web site, mr. wheeler referred to the fcc as what he wants to call the optimism agency. what did that mean? >> guest: well, that was a nice turn of phrase. and i think part of it has to do with chairman wheeler's enthusiasm. chairman wheeler is not merely a technocrat or a tech policy

wonk. he's also a bit of a, he's also a bit of an intellectual, and he's a historian as well. a civil war historian. he wrote a week about abraham lincoln and the telegraph during the civil war. so e has this, he seems to have this historical perspective that i think is very, i think it's going to be beneficial, and i think it will seven him well in an -- serve him well in an agency that has traditionally been populated by sort of tech no drats -- technocrats and bureaucrats. and one of the things, one of the phrases he uses, interestingly, he used it in his book about lincoln and the telegraph as well as he talks about the internet as a hinge moment if many history. so you get the sense reading his statements that he really has a sense that the internet is a unique -- in his words, hinge

moment -- that's filled with promise for the united states for its economy, for all types of applications from health care to education. so i really do think that he wants to instill this sense of on the him and hope in -- optimism and hope in the agency, and that's really associated with the promise of the internet not only for economic growth, but also for increasing opportunity for people around the country and for the next generation of broadband applications and services, again, in health care and education. so when he talks about, when he talks about optimism, i think he's really trying to set a tone of hope and, again, of acting with dispatch for the best interests of the country, the economy be, businesses and the american people. >> host: mr. gustin, one of the issues that's being discussed among consumers and in congress is the issue of cell phone

unlocking. here's the new chairman at his confirmation hearing. >> who knew the library of congress had this far of a reach? but i am a strong supporter of intellectual property rights. at the same point in time, i believe when i as a consumer or you as a consumer or anybody else have fulfilled our commitment and we've paid off our contract, that we ought to have the right to use that device and the move it across carriers or whatever as we see fit. and, yes, i look forward to working on this issue and to resolve ising this issue to give consumers -- resolving this issue to give consumers flexibility. >> host: and, sam gustin, that an issue he can implement immediately or not? >> guest: well, i'm not sure he can implement it heedly, but there -- immediately, but there

have been a growing grassroots effort to try to address this issue really that's picked up the pace since the beginning of the year. and again, he's right, it's somewhat baffling why the library of congress is even involved in an issue like cell phone unlocking. but i think what he needs to do is balance, as he said, the competing interests of copyright and the contractual terms that users agree to when they sign up for cell phone contracts with sort of common sense ideas about once you've fulfilled your contract, you should be able to move to a different provider using the same device. so hopefully, he'll be able to achieve a balance. i would add with all due respect to the advocates of cell phone unlocking that while this is a important issue, quite frankly, it's not as important as the spectrum auctions or net

neutrality or some of the other really, really big issues that the fcc is facing. >> host: well, speaking of net neutrality and network management, we're kind of in a holding pattern right now, but has chairman wheeler forecast his views on that at all? >> guest: he -- chairman wheeler has been keeping it pretty close to the vest on net neutrality and on the fcc's open internet rules. it's important to note that these rules exist, so this is policy. the open internet rules exist. so he is chairman of the fcc, the open internet rules exist, so it is his responsibility to enforce these rules. now, net neutrality has traditionally been one of the most controversial and highly politicized issues that the fcc has faced. it's currently the subject of a high stakes legal battle. verizon has sued the fcc

claiming that the agency lacks the authority to enforce its own internet -- its open internet rules, and we should just be clear about what net neutrality is, what the open internet rules are. this idea that broadband service providers like comcast, verizon, at&t shouldn't be able to discriminate against rival services on their network. so, for example, comcast shouldn't be able to block, slow down or degrade netflix on its own cable network or broadband network. now, verizon has sued the fcc claiming that the fcc lacks the authority to enforce the rules. verizon also is making an interesting argument which is the company is saying that the rules violate verizon's right to free speech which is kind of an unusual argument. and what verizon is saying is

that because, because it transmits its own speech as well as the speech of others across its broadband networks, restrictions or rules that prohibit or delimit how it can structure or manage its network violate the company's first amendment rights to free speech. this legal argument has attracted quite a bit of criticism because, of course, verizon is perfectly free to speak out about any issue at any time. it's a giant corporation. it has free speech rights. so, but it's going to be interesting to see what the federal court does on this case. and we're not going to see a decision here for several months. now, if the fcc loses this case, then chairman wheeler is going to face a difficult choice in how to respond.

he might try to modify or bridge the open internet rules, or he might try to actually reclassify broadband service under a regulatory framework that would give the fcc the authority to enforce the rules. now, this is, this reclassification has over the years has occasionally been called the nuclear option. because if he did that, there's no doubt that the fcc would have the authority to enforce the rules, but the big broadband companies would go absolutely ballistic, and it would set up a massive, massive, highly politicized battle between the broadband companies and the fcc. and keep if mind that the issue of net knew centrality has just been -- net neutrality has just

been politicized for years. there was discussions during the recent shutdown and the debt limit debate about some opponents of net neutrality in congress wanted to actually attach provisions essentially gutting net neutrality to unrelated bills associated with the budget and the debt limit. so this is just a very, very highly politicized issue. and you're right, right now we are in a bit of a holding pattern because the court is deliberating, and it's going to be several months before they issue their decision. but once they do issue their decision. , if it goes against the fcc, chairman wheeler is going to face some tough choices. >> host: from gustin, what can you tell us about michael o'reilly, the republican? >> guest: well, a former senate staffer who's well respected, and it's traditionally when fcc appointments get made there's a

pairing so that a democrat and a republican are nominated to the agency. he's not as well known in the industry as chairman wheeler, but he was a longtime senate staffer, republican, who's respected, and so far all the comments from chairman wheeler and public interest groups and definitely industry groups and big companies have been very, very support i. supportive. and i think it's, from my point of view and i think from the point of view of a lot of people, it's great that the fcc finally has its five-member complement. because with so many challenging issues facing the agency, it's really time to get to work. >> host: and "the communicators" will continue to coffer the fcc in the coming months. sam gustin is technology reporter with "time" magazine. thanks for being with us. >> just ahead, two panels from a

recent hearing of the president's arrives and civil liberties oversight board. it's examining changes to the nsa's collection and surveillance programs. you'll hear about the -- >> later today president obama honors the nation's veterans at arlington national cemetery during the traditional wreath laying at the tomb of the unknowns. after that he'lledly his veterans' day address at the nearby amphitheater. you can watch live coverage of his remarks beginning at 11 a.m. eastern over on c-span. >> civil liberties oversight board recently held a public meeting to discuss possible changes to the -- [inaudible] [audio difficulty]