>> i think radio is the longest in the best form of the media that's left. what we are doing now with our long conversations and even

charlie rose who reads books the way that i read books to talk to the author seriously and is tremendously revealing when an author has the look read these days because they don't get many people over the books and know what they're talking about with page notes. it's so rewarding to them. i get a great deal of satisfaction when an author says to me at that the highest complement, that's the best interview i've had on this book tour. i just got up from charles krauthammer and loved the interview on things that matter his new collection of essays some of which are autobiographical. that makes my day. so i like radio. three hours is an abundance of time. if you are middle or high school student c-span's studentcam video competition was to know what's the most important issue conger should address next year or? make a five to seven minute

video measured include c-span programming for your chance to win the grand prize of $5000 with $100,000 in total prizes. the deadline is january 20. get more info@ studentcam.org. >> coming up next sheryl sandberg the coo of facebook discusses why it's a dull difficult for women to achieve leadership roles the united states. she also talks about her own career choices and experiences. this is about an hour and teen minutes. [applause] >> let's begin by thanking the computer history in museum for putting on the seminar along with the sponsors. this places been such an interesting place to listen and learn to not only understand history but to understand the feature so thank you john and everybody. [applause] i met sheryl in the late 90s

when she was running what appeared to be a third of the treasury department. impossibly young and impossibly smart, she impressed all of us with what she did in the clinton administration the first and second terms. so when it came time for her to choose a job it became pretty obvious that she should be at google. she and i chatted. [laughter] she and i chatted and i figured this is somebody who we could use with genuine talent and we didn't exactly have a job for her. google's will hire smart people. she came and i wandered around and worked in finance and learn the business and she figured out we needed to have a different kind of salesforce. and the subsequent six years she built a business that today is somewhere around $20 billion and establish the recruiting practices that led the company to its current excellent

condition. to say her contribution that google was astounding as to understate it in terms of the number of people she hired. i would say she probably hired half the company and did all sorts of things for customer service and marketing and so forth. then shockingly, shockingly -- she shows up and says i'm going to go and work for mark. i said how could this be? i mean is there something wrong? no, no, no. she knew this area. okay, whatever. we did various things to try to woo her but her heart was set to go to facebook were shockingly she did extremely well and in fact she repeated the success the second time which is really not occur very often and are history, maybe once or twice. and i thought wow pretty

impressive. so i figured okay she is doing really well. then she decides to write a book which immediately becomes another number one bestseller. i have no idea what she is going to do as are next encore but we are talking about one of the great leaders of our industry and today of course were going to talk about serious subjects but what i think of sheryl i think of somebody who is else to multibillion-dollar businesses already and she has got a lot ahead of her. so with that, i think it's extraordinary to have you here so forth. >> thank you and i want to thank erik who hired me to go when no one else would so i'm grateful. gave me as a say in the my book the best career advice of my career which i'm sure we will get a chance to talk about. we all say this but we all get to do the things we do because of rate mentors and advisers and erik has been mapped through google, through facebook which she was lovely about and through thing i've done and i'm so

grateful. >> the book she has written is just extraordinary. [laughter] >> what the are they laughing at? >> they really like your book. they think it's great. they think it's a bestseller. okay. let's try to do a serious interview here because these are serious subjects. let's start by why did he write this book and frankly you are busy, right? >> as you are. >> that you are like seriously busy. >> you no i wrote "lean in" because no matter how much progress women have made the world and get ready for the truth here, the world is still overwhelmingly run by men. >> i'm shocked. see i'm not sure how well that's going. [laughter] [applause] >> let's consider economic

growth ,-com,-com ma war, pestilence, disease. >> climate change. >> i forgot that one. good luck in washington. >> we have made great from the generation my mother was in a mcgran matter but it's truman run every industry and every government in every country in the world. that means that when the decisions are made the most impact our world women's voices aren't equally heard and that's true in the corporate boardroom in truth a pta meeting in truth a town hall. i wrote "lean in" to try to address the issue openly to talk openly about the stagnation women are facing at the top and to give just practical advice to both women and men who want to do their part to change it. see what i would like to do is i'd like to cover some of the topics in the book which i really enjoyed and i recommend you all buy it. i suspect every single person in this room as already bought it but if you haven't we will be

selling it here and book signing. but let's start with, i will give you an example. i want you to finish. i will read a sentence or two. in addition to the external barriers erected by society women are headed but their ears that exist within ourselves. we hold ourselves back in ways both big and small by lacking self confidence and not raising our hands and by pulling back when we should be leaning in. finish that thought. this i think is the rationale for the lien in movement and what you are doing and the extraordinary social phenomena, the lien and parties, the extensive use of facebook that might offer to make all this happen etc.. >> women are making it to the top in its stagnating. women have had 14% in america for 14 years. he taught me very clearly that transit go out for a long time in her flat for a long time don't go up again. they often go down so you have to be worried about that.

women are held back by external barriers, institutional, bad public policy, sexism, discrimination and all that is important. we are also held back at the internalization of stereotypes. at my wedding, which you were at my wedding so you remember this read my brother and sister stood up and gave a toast and they said hi, we are cheryl's younger brother and sister but we are not really her younger brother and sister. we are really her first employees. employee one and employee two. sheryl never played as a child. she just organized other children's play. [laughter] and everyone laughed. it is funny. it is funny now when it was funny then. they said it was love but there something that's not in the about that joke because what they were saying was i was a bossy little girl. >> tell the truth ,-com,-com ma were you a bossy little girl?

>> absolutely. the question is how do we experience that because of the stereotypes? little voice are almost never called lossy because when a little way leads there's nothing to note. that's expected one but when a little girl organizes other kids she is bossy which we are communicating very young. it is the stereotypes we internalize. everyone can go to a meeting tomorrow and watch with people say relative to the same level of position. more women's sit at the front -- at the back and on the side. metaphorically and in reality we hold ourselves back as well. if we are going to fix the problem for women in leadership we have to solve the external barriers and the internal barriers. >> in the book you talk about the problem of an executive woman at the table and you point out that some leaders who are ceos actually see this interruption phenomena enable call it out in the meeting. it's the only way in your view and i agree with this, to get

this behavior where men dominate the conversation and interrupt women. just like i'm interrupting you. [laughter] >> this is an interview. this is not interacting. this doesn't count. what happens is more with women to make it and drafted on all levels. when that happens he will interrupt. the stories of the book and he will say would like to hear what she is saying and erik when you were in meetings because i've been in years of meanings you run you go around the table and asked everyone what they think which accomplishes the same thing. the point is all this need to do this. it's not just ceos that need to do this. you have to be erik schmidt to do this. the most junior person in the brown mayor female can enter up and say i would like to hear what she is saying. that is a power move and something that will get everyone's great respect. the thesis of sub five is if we understand the stereotypes and call them out we can change them.

>> and the book you talk about the situation in education and you point out that what has now become clear is we have a crisis of men and not women in the educational system. roughly speaking and these are broad generalizations, female performance in math and science on a broad basis is roughly equal that of men. it's higher than verbal and math skills for women and again there are always exceptions. 59% of women are now completing college. what has happened. when these women graduate from college so we are producing extraordinary talented women to introduce the workplace what happens to them? are the men holding them down or are they being discriminated against? are they failing to act? how would you describe the? there is this huge cohort of women at her your jiabao logo, and the work place and change to get they have not gotten to the

top rates be the answer is all of the above chart thingy said. women graduate at higher levels than boys. they get more graduate degrees and they get more entry-level jobs along with their college degrees. every year fewer women than men get promoted. by the time you get to the top you are 14% in the united states and there's not a single country in the world that doesn't have 95% of small companies run by men. it literally goes like this. some of them leave the workforce. some of them stay in the workforce but don't- >> in the book you talk about stereotyping where people underperform if they are told they are a member of the stereotype. you think that's one of the things driving at? >> yes and explains the dearth of women leadership skills and of computer science. stereotyping means that she said

that if you become aware of the stereotype you will act in its accordance. this is why you remind boys or girls that they are boys or girls before a math test. the boys to the same and the girls do worse. if you tell the same girls before a math test girls do really well on this test they do better. our stereotypes of boys are that they are better at math and science so girls underperform. we think more boys are computer scientists. i put my son seven years old last summer and i.t. tech camp at stanford. the children -- the parents are making the decisions. 35 lawyers in five girls. of those five girls i put to the men. it was my niece and her friend. [laughter] let's wake up parents. our generation my age are putting their boys in computer science camp at seven or not they're girls.

that is a stereotype because those boys are being told they are better and they will be better because they went to the computer science camp. we don't describe leadership qualities to lead and so when a man leaves his natural and when a woman leads it's not. if you're a man here please raise your hand if anyone has ever told you are too aggressive at work. there are always a few. if you are a woman, please raise your hand if anyone has ever told you you are too aggressive at work. see i think we are clear. [laughter] >> then you have to ask yourself who do you think is more aggressive more men or women? >> clearly more women put up their hands so clearly they are more aggressive. that was a joke, guys. take people through some of these phenomenon in society and another when you talk about is called a posture syndrome which also drives some of this

behavior. what you say for example is men and women are susceptible to the impostor syndrome but women experience it more intensely and are more limited. the beauty of it is used facile late between extreme egomania and the feeling that i am a fraud. how does that play out? first it sounds like it is true but how does that play out in your view in the minds of women who are trying to succeed in the workplace? >> it means as eric said that you don't believe you are a success. the data tells us given the same level of performance men remember they are slightly higher and women remember they are slightly lower. we also know if you ask a man why he's successful. >> after reduced to you. ask a man to explain his success and he will quote his own innate skills. never, completely wrong. ask a woman the same question and she will attribute her

success to external factors insisting she did well because she worked hard or got lucky or got help from others. >> it she doesn't say that other people will say about her. what happens with the impostor syndrome is that relative to levels of performance men feel more self-confident. the amazing thing is that i just wrote a whole book on the subject and still happening to me. after my book was done and published and out there we had a meeting at the spoke. it was a meeting of our senior management team. there is an issue that for years one of their senior leaders and i, we both wanted facebook to do something that no one else did for years and over the last couple of months people decided that the number is much worse making. worth making. i am open emotionally so i start the meeting by saying i am so grateful we are here today because for all these years i believed in us but no one else did so i thought maybe i was wrong.

jay looks up. i knew sheryl and i were right and you would all come around. i'm facebook messaging with jay. can i use that story in my book tour? sure. jay, can i use your name in that story on the book tour? absolutely. he is the nicest guy so i write jay don't worry i won't make you look interesting. oh i'm not worried about that. [laughter] i mean inconceivable that i would have any reaction like that. and relative to levels of performance we continually do this. it's that adjustment we have to make. what i say my book is as i can't change how anyone feels. i can change how i feel because i'm still doing this but i can no that is a woman i'm sitting next to an average -- and i can know he feels more self-confident and i can of the data which is that women apply for jobs meeting all the criteria and men with some.

help women and myself adjust. by the way you saw one of sheryl's gifts. this is literally how she did all of these things by getting people to feel strongly. a little snippet of sheryl's success in front of you. were going to come back to the whole person idea which i think is important. i'm still interested in the stereotypes and perceptions and so forth because if they are true and i believe they are chew that govern all of us. you talk about experiments of likability. success on likability are positively correlated for men and negatively for women. you will remember as part of the recruiting you did we studied correlations up male questioners versus female questioners and when they would hire people they would correctly predict the persons success of it was a man but when they scored the like that of female successor was

anti-correlated. in fact it was exactly wrong. i'm quite concerned that the stereotype bias even in nice liberal well-run companies is quite profound. >> yeah. the gender bias we all feel myself included. one thing that happens with gender bias is as women get more successful and powerful they are less like dentist get more successful and powerful they are better liked. what's important understand about that is that his troop women and men. often someone will say at work or in life she is not as well-liked and if someone points out its gender bias the next answer is that women don't like her also. gender bias affects all of us because we are all raised calling little girls and not toys. that gender bias where we dislike success in women holds in all of us. i have a too. i find myself in these and making it safe to admit that is

a really important part of the answer. >> you know i want to talk about how to deal with these things as a woman in the work place in reacting to it. one of the things that has been covered the most about your book is the advice you have about negotiations and i agree with the way you describe this so i will prompt the question by saying you observe that women are much less likely to go for that extra part of negotiation you still -- tell stories of your own life for your inclination was to accept the offer but your brother or friend or whatever sidwell asked another. you actually make a suggestion for how women should process this. and the way you summarize it is when you go back for the offer, and the second offer, i just want more. the guy says hey man matt i just want more. the woman in your advice is to

legitimize the request. this is very important. the women i've worked with have not done as well compared to the men. >> because of the stereotype biases if a man negotiates for himself we all like him. he is supposed to want more and he deserves more. he is great. if a woman negotiates for herself and there's an important distinction, women can negotiate on the others just as well and is not a problem. it's when they negotiate for themselves. >> you describe this in the look as crossing a minefield backward in high heels. >> which is difficult. >> i'm sure it is. >> is almost as scary as -- and if you have not read his book is great. >> can we get back to your book? >> what i would say about this is when the women negotiate for themselves and do the same thing men do they mean that when the negotiatinegotiati on but they will be disliked and they will pay a penalty in terms of future

advancement and their relationships. this is really important. >> they will pay a price? they absolutely pay a penalty? >> the data is very clear. when women negotiate for themselves they have to legitimize it. i don't like this advice. i would rather men and women be treated equally but as long as we are not treated equally we may as well understand the stereotypes and use them to make sure we get those and get paid fairly. what women have to do is legitimize the woman can say something like and i did this in my book with mark. this is only time will be on the opposite sides of the table and you remember your hiring me to run your deal teams. he won't need to be good negotiator. i am about to negotiate, riding the person these are skills i'm bringing to the table. other things people do i say in the look that data shows you can legitimize your advice by saying someone else told me to do it. one thing that has been funny

since the book people are marching in and asking for it by since saying sheryl sandberg told me to ask for a raise. [laughter] >> leaning to profound salary -- the one i suggested to you legitimize it i had in mind someone in the company. >> best investment you have ever made. $14, 40% off at your local bookstore. >> joking aside women get paid 23% less than men for the same jobs in this country. that's a problem and not just for people working -- women get paid 23% less, 77 cents for the dollar in this country. it's not a problem just for the women who work in artistry where people are well-paid, that's it

big problem for the single mothers out there. 30% of our children in this country are being raised by single parents and almost all single mothers. that 23 cents is a big deal. but "lean in" is about is about the quality throughout our economy and our country. we have to change that a little bit about career advice. >> that so much fun. no, no, no. >> i like the jungle gyms. >> the best career advice i ever got was from eric schmidt and i talked about it is never with eric schmidt on the stage. the way it went because i was thinking about joining google and i loved it and i was excited to work there but it was a total nonjob. i had a chart of all my criteria >> this is by the way typical of

sheryl. she has all these detailed analyses. >> all the criteria for my job and google met none of them except that i love the mission. i came to eric with my charge. look at my chart. as a meat in it. there is no job, if no results, the voles, if no responsibility. eric put his hand up my paper and he said don't be an idiot which is excellent. vice. [laughter] that alone was worth the price of admission to this. then he said the best advice i've ever heard and i've passed it down to hundreds of thousands of people is he said get on a rocketship. we don't know what you were going to do exactly but if you are offered a seat on a rocketship don't ask what seat. what eric said is when industries are doing well everybody knows when companies

thrive and when companies are doing well people don't do as well. extrapolating from that the advice to get people is go where your skills are needed. not everyone can join the high-tech rocketship industry that their areas of every company and every industry, different specialties where your skills are more important and there is a growing need for them. i think that it's been the most important advice i've ever had and i'm so grateful. >> thank you very much. let's return to jungle gym. i want to go back, i'm still upset about this 77% of women. >> i am too. >> we agree. when you talk about childcare and you talk about the decision to have children which is obviously a complicated decisios you describe is that unless they are in high-tech and have stock options and soap worth, the math doesn't work. to me when i look at single moms

with kids and so forth i can imagine how tough their lives are. if any single component of their work in a day breaks down like a car or something it's a major crisis. is the solution to that to get salaries up? how do we solve this core problem? i have to have a family and you point on in the book that women are doing the majority of housework and kids work for better or worse. how do we solve that problem? the biggest area that i worry about is a single mom who has all this pressure on her. it's amazing to me that women can get through this. >> sure. the chug care issues exist on both income income spectrum. the lower and it's very clear that we need public policy reform and institution reform. we need jobs that are more flexible. we are the only developed country in the world that doesn't offer one day of federally paid mandated

maternity leave. something like 40 to 50% of women in this country and men don't get a single sick day paif themselves or a child or deal with paternity or maternity. we must provide childcare and solve some of these issues and nothing else is in porton. on the apprentice spectrum i think what happens to women as they sometimes do the math wrong they look at what they're making today. they are college-educated women whose salaries will go up to for the chug care they need overtime and they look at it and they say right now if i pay for childcare i'm barely breaking even. why do it? and a story from my friend anna in the vote. she was about to drop off and someone said wait a second if you stay and you will make more money. she stayed in 10 years later her salary covers plenty of childcare and all kinds of other things. we need those public policy reform and better negotiating for women and women to look

ahead to what they have right now. >> in the book you talk about it lisa in the context of the choice of a husband, you say i truly believe the single most important career decision a woman makes his whether she is a life partner and who that partner is. you go in and i'm just going to quote you. when looking for life a life partner might physis to date all of them. the bad was the cool boys the commitment phobia boys in the crazy boys but do not marry them. the good thing is even though bad boys are they do not make good husbands. >> that's very good advice. >> i'm just reading from your book. >> i stand by my data and advice. you can date whoever you want. its marriage or life commitment. if you are women and thinking about making that life commitment to a woman you won't have a problem because two women

will split households pretty easily. it's when you get a man and a woman and an ongoing relationship. here they do 30 to 40% more than men so is the couple a man has one job and a women has to cut. 70% of the full-time work horse may can't leave because they need that money to support the family. they are doing two jobs with her husband has one. i know know women who have jobs like mine who occupy leadership positions. most of us have husbands and children and all of us have support of husbands. all of us. >> i can say knowing dave indeed you did make the right choice. he is in fact perfect. she goes into it perfect as which is true. in the book you also describe algorithms, sorry procedures that women can use. [laughter] to a little test.

you pulled an unfortunate women and she explained the way she would do dating to determine if the boyfriend would -- she would cancel a date and reschedule it to see how he handled it and if they pass that test the next day it would be scheduled and would turn out that she had to fly somewhere like são paulo and he had to fly thereto. did this were? >> she is actually very happily married and she was happy for me to share her story. that was more of a story than advice. [laughter] however it is an important point which is i tell women date whoever you want as you said that marry someone who wants a -- who thinks that women should be strong and if you want to be in the workforce, who is going to support you and support doesn't mean yes dear it's fabulous for you to get in the workforce while they sit on the couch. it's getting up in the middle of the night to change diapers.

men who have had successful careers with that wives that help them all along. >> sorry to interrupt you. [laughter] >> we are good. it's an interview. >> you point out the it's a myth the female ceos are not married. not only are they happily married but they have strong families and kids and they managed to work it out. >> like men. the reason the partnership thing is so important is these lessons and expectations we have about men and women. i'll ask another question. if you are a man and work and have children please raise your hand if anyone has ever said to you, should you be working? don't be shy. exactly. if you are woman and you working at kids please raise your hand if anyone ever has said to you, should you be working? our assumption is that women --

men will do both and women will not. women have to choose and that assumption is wrong because in fact most women have to do both. we have an economy with and a society where most women have to work and most are women have children so they are doing both. all of her narrative is about how women can't and shouldn't do both. that's just unfair to women. >> the point at which a women makes a decision to have a child she is now confronted by the reality of this very limited amount of time off which i have heard is way too short and i think you agreed compared to certainly western europe. these women are forced to come back to work with these childcare -- and you talk in the book about how it eventually the solution is to give up sleep. >> it's a bad solution. >> clearly a bad solution and furthermore you give advice about life. this is another one of the sort of core messages i think.

the way you would argue and perhaps you're projecting your listening self, it worked when the kids didn't exist but now you have to accept a new quote nora ephron, it embraced the messiness of life. rejoice in the complications. don't be frightened. you cannot change your mind. i've had for careers in three husbands. in this particular case you ultimately in the book say under the enormous pressure because you are running this extraordinary structure with google and under enormous pressure even with the perfect husband he decided to meter your time. you have to give something up. did you give up organization? you are obviously worked performance didn't suffer which i know because i would have told you. he managed to pull this off. how did you do it? >> i was in europe two weeks ago and the man said to me if you want to hire the most efficient

person out there, hire a mother. i will be your most productive copy editor and you'll be something you can measure it and he said she is. i thought i was sufficient before a children. >> by the way you are really efficient. >> once i have children every minute became precious and when it became precious for me it became precious for other people. my tolerance level which was never that high went down. i think what's happening to working women and working memory and is we compare ourselves unfavorably on both sides of the ledger. we compare ourselves to men that work you have fewer home responsibilities than we do and we fall short. it's easier for them to take the trip and then we compare ourselves at home to the women who are full-time. as a working mother you can spend your entire life feeling bad. when you don't people do it for

you. i have a story in my book about dropping my son off at the local public school we go to here. i dropped them off in kindergarten on st. patrick's day wearing his favorite t-shirt. a woman opens the door and she said it's st. patrick's day. he is supposed to be wearing green. i think, really? he is lucky he is a t-shirt. this would never happen to my husband. my husband dropped off her son were in the same t-shirt the same moment would open the door and say you are such a wonderful father for driving your son to school today. but i'm a women so of course it did happen to me. i spent my entire day worrying about the green t-shirt. should i drive to part target and buy a green shirt? >> by the way the man would have forgotten the entire transaction 30 minutes afterward. >> have with this episode of absolute panic over the green

t-shirt fiasco i called my husband and explain how everyone has a green t-shirt but our son and you will never go to college. [laughter] it will be my fault because i'm a working woman and all the other women don't work so they remember the green t-shirt. my husband laughed and said do you know what sheryl? our son learned something very important today. he learned he doesn't have to be like everyone else. and that is the difference is my husband and i do about the same with their children. i feel guilty all the time. having written a book and telling everyone else to myself not to be guilty and my husband thinks he's a hero. [laughter] a hero. a hero of t-shirts. and the difference is about letting ourselves off the hook. most of the things we do we do 80% of them is most of the way there. >> redefined the situation you're in to be a success. >> success at 80% or to do the

best you can. >> one of the things you talk about which was news to me is primary caregiving expectations for mothers who stay at home and working mothers have gone up. somehow we think of people are spending less time with their kids but in fact over the last couple of decades the number has gone up to 60%. >> it's an important side of the ledger. expectations are going up on both sides did a wonderful technology eric and others have built. people work under ours. my mother says work in my generation was 9:00 to 5:00 and that was it. there were no cell phones in there were no androids. you couldn't be bothered on the weekends. mothering is gone through the same expectation. if you think about what parenting was, my mother was a stay-at-home mother full time. we didn't have play dates that she arranged. she didn't arrange a single play date. there was no such thing. we rode our bicycles down the rock and played.

sociologists call it intensive mothering. the data shows up old-time work in full-time mother working outside the home today spends as many hours engaged in direct childhood action as a nonworking mother did in the 70s. it's an amazing thing to understand. when i think about that. >> that's a pretty hopeful statement. it tells us this generation of kids is going to be pretty good. . >> yes, my figured when i figured out that i was actually spending as much real time with my children, working as my mother did, it turned out to be true. and that was a relief. and so these expectations of more than full-time work were really hitting women and it's not possible to do both of those. >> finishing up and getting to your questions. and you talk in the book a little bit about how women treat other women.

and also when he went to facebook, you face increased scrutiny. and marissa mayer has gone through this as well and yes, we told her to stay google as well. [laughter] >> you guys train is also well. >> they don't listen. and what is the message here? what do you want for men and women to do on the set of criticisms? >> some women worked in world where only one woman could get to the top and then it makes

sense. and the other things is that we have different expectations and the man is asked for a favor at work and he does it, everyone, men and women are super grateful and if he doesn't come he faces a penalty and he's visiting us up to do. and they and i think the fundamental observation as we are 50% of the population. >> at shopping. >> yes. >> if we work together, if there are no more motherboards, i work

with those about bringing women who work in the home and the workforce together, publishing this, letters to thank our mothers for mother's day and we are all doing it. and women need to support each other because when i think about the women who are at home, i can either feel insecure because i don't feel like i was as good a mother, or i could fill grateful for everything that they are doing at my kids school in my community. and i think the same thing for those others who work like me. i think that you feel better about ourselves and stop beating ourselves up so much, we can also be more generous to each other. >> okay, let's talk about the book and the book to her and the reviews and so forth. and with the typical courage you launched into this at full blast speed ahead. and number one on the best-seller list, likely to be a number one for many months to come, i think, it's really --

it's essentially a global conversation is incredibly important. >> yes. >> let's start. i will start by asking what is the stupidest criticism that you have ever heard of you and your book report? >> known as criticize my book. [laughter] >> everyone loves my book. [laughter] enact i think that the criticism that i don't think is a thoughtful is saying that i don't believe that other things need to change other than internally. it is not grounded in if you read my book, it's very hard to decide. >> yes, presumably those that just didn't read the book all. >> yes. we need institutional policy. we need public policy to change. and i also do a lot to explain why we are fooling ourselves

back. >> it's like, something that i need to explore more. >> the best criticism and the one that i struggled a lot is in trying to change stereotypes, i am embracing the stereotypes. so for example, i have told women in my book to smile and say that they can justify themselves for promotions and raises. and that is embracing a stereotype. i'm acknowledging that you will be more successful getting a raise you smile. i want to embrace a stereotype

to change it and i struggle with this so much in the book. then i decided that i am a pragmatist. the world is what it is, if more women smile, they will get raises and become ceos. and people ascribe his women and then the next generation won't have to smile and say this. >> is feminism 2.0. [laughter] >> it was a specific view which is largely a correct one that women need to be empowered and treated the same and one of the huge gains. and feminism 2.0 is that there is a way to do this, which gets you into our. >> yes, what happened with me is that i really struggled and i think it's a fair criticism. i struggled with that and i decided to follow it. i decided that one i negotiating you are one of the people are taught me how come i would always tell my team to go into that room and you are going to win or lose before you go into the room. and it's how much you understand about the other side and so i decided that empowering women to understand and use them to their

advantage is stereotypes, it's party to negotiate an unfair world. and it's hard for me when i give that advice and it's fair criticism. >> okay, let's ask some of the audience. how you feel that the book's reception? how you feel and did you have a point there really got across? >> okay, eric makes an amazing point. which is that revolutions are easier to start and i don't know if this is a revolution. i wanted people to notice that women were stagnating. i wanted them to understand a stereotype that is holding us back in for men and women to try to change them. in the play, if you are a business person, you write a book. and i'm really gratified that so many people have heard it and it's been on the best-seller list and it's been eight weeks. but the real question is what happens now? does anyone remember that when so many people are called

aggressive at work, so many women, 20 years from now. because my book can only do so much and i can only do the best i can. it started with debbie, who's here tonight, i worked with her to try to help women, all is coming together and we hope that you join us. we are this close 175,000 participants and if you go to facebook and like us, we are there. and it's unclear what happens from here on out. and this is going to take so many more voices. men and women, trying to change the stereotypes. >> how have you responded and hasn't changed anything about your approach? have you modified anything based on the reception? and the cavalcade of comments and so forth? >> i don't think there's anything that has been said that i didn't try to address.

so i think what people said was not surprising. but the volume, the completely shopping. >> but your book talks about that because you point out that women raise greater scrutiny. and you do as well. >> yes, that's right. [laughter] >> yes, i think what it tries to do is get involved and i set this up with debbie and others as a community and we did it in an open way. it exists on facebook as well. in the community is created by the community. we are helping people set up circles, which can be groups of men or women, usually those are starting all over, it's been exciting to see. in a circle is whatever people wanted to be and maybe they were in a different industry and they

would meet once a month and supported header i heard now that there is a circle being started with fathers and daughters and i never thought of that. i think it's brilliant and i love those fathers. they are so lucky. so we did is create a platform that's what we do in our industry. and we put out ideas and people are running with them. and as your book says, we don't control us. the internet is the first thing that we invented and do not control. >> that's right, we are unleashing a community and people will go and try to follow and support. >> another question, what was a pivotal transition event or moment in your career that define who you are or what you did with your career, and was it something that you anticipated or didn't occur randomly? >> there so many things.

certainly joining google with you, understanding the mission and how important the mission was to me and what i was doing. i mean, when eric recruited me, all of our initial conversations were all about what google is doing. and you kept saying -- >> yes, one of the simple secrets to motivating people is giving them permission to change the world and they will work for you hard. >> that's right. so nokia just been announced as chairman and not ceo, you are about to be see over the world and know it. eric is saying, look at what google is doing. my greatest hope is not a book. but it is all those women who have gotten raises. those daughters who have fathers who give their daughters the comments to believe that they can go forward. >> would you have had the same success with women mentors that you have had with male mentors?

and the corollary question to that is how do you make yourself available as a mentor, and will you be my mentor? [laughter] >> okay, this person is not read the book. because in the book i say one of the worst question to ask anyone is will you be my mentor. [laughter] enact it is interesting. so it only works for men. and it had a couple of female mentors that but maybe none. i work for men. one of the points i make is that if we rely on women's mentor women, we will never succeed because there aren't enough women at the top to match all women. and there are unspoken things that are holding us back. and so a man and a man in the room having a meeting alone or maybe at a bar, having a drink, it looks like, business and mentoring, a man and a woman, having alone looks like -- exactly. an older man and a younger woman meeting alone. let's be clear. we are talking about this, getting people into power, 86%

are men and this is all about not just making it safe, but cheering on men to spend time with women. >> we called and covered the bob steele story. have of the city of new york says that he treats men and women equally. and i didn't know him when i wrote a the story. and i've met him send. >> absolutely. >> to 15 years ago, goldman sachs, he announced that he had daughters and he didn't feel comfortable having dinner with women. so he would have no dinners. >> but he had dinner with his family. >> yes, he did. he had no dinners at work and he was basically saying that i understand this and wants to talk about this and i'm making a sequel. supply, so he asked will you have dinner alone with women and he said absolute comments for my job. and some men will say yes and

some will say no. but either way, let's make it explicit and equal. >> yes, these are good examples of things to come. let's get the additional questions over here. >> what tips you have for women and men who have taken time off and are finding it tough to get back into the workplace? >> it's usually an issue for women. the with the recession, there has also been an issue for men as well. my best tip is looking for areas where your skills are needed. and being adaptable and her skills.

in this industry changes, it's less relevant times. if you hire based on skills come you can adopt and i think other industry should look to silicon valley, which has done very well. basically adopting that practice. and that will help a lot of people get back into the world and the workforce. >> another way to promote women's interests is to have a growing economy. >> that is a problem that is very relevant. we are struggling with immigration reform and also policy issues in this country and they are directly related and which make the whole economy rocketship. and there are plenty of seats. >> revenue solves all problems. [applause] >> he said this for a very long time. >> cash in the bank.

[laughter] >> not hypothetical cash for the cash in the bank. [laughter] >> what's interesting is that we had a big question facing our country, which is our economy -- is going to grow at the same rate that has grown historically and the answer we are providing now is no. the reason it is that is because we do not have the workforce we need to grow our economy quickly enough and there are only two answers to that. there's education and immigration and we do not educate our children close to what other countries are educating a look at the computer scientist and you and i are seeing this coming out of india and china. it comes out of india and china everyday and they are more and better educated and we need to fix this. we are graduating 11% of our kids without being able to read. and a lot of the great company as a silken valley, they were built on immigrants. >> facebook opened. >> yes, there is a group the mark set up and i'm a member as well, which is part of what i'm

trying to get this done. and in the spirit of these questions, have you had much response from washington? and what is in the works for this? >> or are they just ignore you as usual. >> and people are listening. and so i think the fastest change we have seen from the book are people and companies and individual women and men. we are seeing women starting circles all over. we are seeing engagement around us as well. and he has said that i thought i was good at us and this and we are not so good at this.

and warren buffett talked about women this year and this is training women not to be nice, but tell them that this is the bottom line. >> there's a global competitiveness with asia. ..

>> i mean, when i was 6, my dad was in my room like, you're well enough to go to school, fever doesn't matter. if i was drinking in college, hungover, we're running, on the street. my parents were definitely, you know, go out and do them type of parents, but they were incredibly supportive. >> many political problems are driven by old men in policy positions -- [laughter] climate, health, gun control, environments, dot, dot, dot, where women have different views. how does your advice apply to getting more women into politics? >> yeah. i'm really passionate about getting women into politics.

the book argues for women in positions of power and positions of government that are important. i happen to be in london a few weeks ago when thatcher was buried, and she was elected 34 years ago, the only female head of government in the world when elected. over 34 years, there's been 17 -- there are hundreds of countries, and that's just not good enough. i believe that if we had more women in politics, we'd have less war. >> i agree with that. [applause] so following up, question from the audience, do you think it's hillary clinton's time to lean in and win the presidency? that's what the question is. [applause] >> yes. i want hillary clinton to run. i told her, i'll tell you, and i wrote the book because my daughter, brought home a song for my kids for president's day, my daughter was 6, my son 4, and

she listened to the song, and looked up and said, mommy, why are they all boys? i think hillary clinton can be the female president, hope she does, but if not, i hope there's no too long before there's one. >> good. another question. do you think an increase in female entrepreneurship could solve the issue of women not receiving promotions by giving women the power to make these decisions? >> yes. i believe very strongly that women in leadership positions help not just those women, but all women. companies with more women in senior roles have better workplace policies for women, and so, yes, we need women in the big companies, in congress, and we need more women interneuros. we have a lot of females entrepreneurs, but we don't have nearly as them as we have men, a they don't get funding at the same level. interestingly. look at the return. there was a recent study done

that the return on investing in an entrepreneur was higher, and that they asked for the money they need, not the money they might need, and so we need more female entrepreneurs to ask for funding, and they need to get it. >> more cash efficient. >> measure cash efficient. >> excellent. you built the hiring machine, as i described it, google, which is fan fantastic, and your legacy in the company i see every day, and i'm sure you feel the same way on facebook because i know you did the same thing with facebook and one of the questions here is what do you look for when you're hiring someone? how do you actually make these decisions? >> the most important i look for in hiring someone, and, again, i learned this from you, is skills. skills. not experience. experience is great. you can get the per spect skill base and right experience, that's great, but our industry changes so quickly that almost none of us have done anything we do now before; right? it's all new. you have to have skills. i asked people how they would

handle specific situations, and i'm looking for flexibility, and i'm looking for the skills, and at a meeting we had with our summer entrance, never forget this, a lot were mba students asking about their career past, and the worst question to ask is what's your career path, and that was very good advice because she was saying we want you to be flexible. >> the way i describe it is when people called me up and said, i'm a vp now, and i need to be, you know, senior vice president or chief operating officer, whatever, in your company, and i would stay, click. that's not how we operate. we want you to join our cause. we want you to believe in what we do, and you'll be fine. that's workedded well for the people who managed to not screw up; right? actually, showed up, and said, how can i help? >> a couple people we recruited

together, if you remember. >> i do. >> down in the early days because that was probably about the extent of it. >> yeah, but they still remember. [laughter] >> but the point about, also, and i give the advice in the book, titles for the wrong reason to take a job. tithe les don't mean anything. both jobs i took at google, which you pointed out, i was offered jobs with more senior titles elsewhere, but the google job is a way better job, and even i would have been ceo on other things i did, and i workedded with mark. titles do not matter as much as the opportunity you have to have impact. >> another question. you dip into a new company for a bigger role from facebook to google, obviously, does it take meaning to get that new big opportunity? a career mobility question. >> the data say thats for women it does, but not always for all of the negotiating reasons we talked about, but i think, again, educating ourselves, we can change that.

toy don't think it takes moving on. sometimes it does. sometimes it doesn't. i think it takes solving problems. i think the right way to approach a creesh is what problems can i solve? one of my favorite hiring stories in the book, ibay, i just joined facebook, she called, say i want to work with you at facebook. i thought about calling you and telling you the things i'm good at and what i like to do, but i figure everyone's doing that, so instead, i want to know what is your biggest problem, and can i solve it? >> exactly. >> my job hit the floor. no one says that. my problem is recruiting. we've gone through every interview, had not found anyone to hire yet, and you can solve it. she came in and runs all of human resources and she's been great trying to solve our problems, not hers. >> this is a great question. oh. pay attention to this question. do you think that part of genter bias behavior in men and women

may be genetic as well as social? >> it is such a profound question. i try to be fair in the book. i do not think men and women do not have yes nittic differences. that's silly. >> too many negatives. >> sorry, i think they have differences. >> fair enough. [laughter] >> i have a sown and daughter, and my son takes any toy to hit the other toy, and my daughter takes two and makes them kiss. there are differences. [laughter] >> and you're trying to solve these by forcing -- >> yeah, but here's what we know. i don't -- i believe there are genetic differences between boys and girls and men and women. leadership is not one of them. leadership. leadership can have typically male trips, typically female, but leaders have both, and that's documented over and over. leaders have both. we can associate what is femme anymorety with leadership as much as we associate masculinity with nurturing.

>> another sort of one of these interesting and loaded questions. what is your thing about a women's physical appearance in the workplace and how it can help or hurt her career? >> >> you know, the physical appearance one is a real issue. it's much more of an issue for women than for men. you know, i used to tell women at google to dress appropriately. again, it was not -- dress for success. i used to give -- me and my boss called it dress for success talk. we'd hire amazingbly smart women from great places with great, great skills, and, you know, sometimes they looked like they were going to a nightclub, and that was not going to help them at work, and it was the same advice as negotiating, but i didn't like telling them, maybe you should dress more -- it's silicon valley, i suggested jean, not shrts; right? i thought presenting themselves as various professionals, which in the area does mean jeans, was pretty important, and so i don't

overly focus on it. i'm not into the clothes in any way shape, or form, but presenting ourselves appropriately, the same way we wouldn't walk in and say something dumb. we care about the perception. >> another question. how do you get more women into real and perceived places of power like public company boardses and directors? do what european governments did, and require a certain percentage of women to be board members? >> so the issue on quota is is a raging tacet, not here, but particularly in europe. i think the issue is that i think each country picks what itments to do. i'm not arguing for quotas in the united states because it's not the most important intervention, and for us right now, and the republican i don't think it's the most important intervention is because if you look at cries that put it in, such as norway and the scandinavia countries it's not moved any other numbers. norway have a law that in 2006

that required quotas for women on corporate boards, achieved more women on corporate boards, up to 40%, and it has not moved any other numbers. having both, as you know, and i think what we really want to do is move the numbers all the way throughout to operating jobs, to ceos, and i want us to see us do things that move numbers throughout, not just in one place. >> another question from the audience. how do you react to signals like messages like you're too aggressive at work? how do you handle it when that comes in? how do you behave? >> so it's the most important thing lean in is trying to do. i'm trying to help. it's easier for people to address that, and part of me is gratified to think it's working a bit. jill, who i know, a friend of mine, a very, very talented woman, editor of the "new york times," there was an arm written about her criticizing her for thing, and a bunch of people wrote, she's told she's too aggressive. that happens to women, not men.

the awareness -- >> yes, the ability for the crowd to crowd source the response mitigates it to some degree. >> i hope "lean in" and other things people are doing helps that whereas before you had to start from scatch saying, well, i appreciate it, one of the ways i'm too aggressive, you know, we're getting help training managers is so important. a man who started the conversation by saying i didn't read the book, which, is a little weird; right? he works for me. wouldn't you pretend you read the book? [laughter] let's leave that last judgment aside. i have not read the book, but i have listened to you for the last five years, i've been working for you, and i listen to what you say. we did the performance reviews, annual ones, and he got feedback from a woman who said he was too aggressive. rather than write down "too aggressive," he went back to men and women with that feedback and asked them what did she do specifically? they answered, and he said, if i

man did those things, would you have thought he was aggressive? they said no. the best thing we can do is i want to men the engage and read the book and people in power to understand that. >> the core message is that men who are typically one have to police the bias? >> and women will be able to say, you know, there's a lot of data that says i want to ask you specifically, best feedback is not be too offensive. you want to be open to it to continue to give it to them, give them feedback, but say, let's talk about this. how am i too aggressive? can we get specifics, and i think it's appropriate to bring up gender and i have to change behaviors, grateful for the feedback, but if a man did those things, is it too aggressive? >> a couple more, and we'll finish up. a lot of advice for solving internal issues, but what can we do to solve the externt --

external issues that refers to public policies and institutional issues. >> i think there's a lot to do. we can pass better laws, have more women, and i also think we can run the companies and change the policies ourselves. the book startses with a story, happened at google, i was pregnant, very pregnant. they called me project whale, it was named after me. this one particularly sensitive engineer was a fair comment, and one day i was late for a meeting, and i had to park far away, and i was really sick because i tried to run, didn't work, and i talked to my husband said where's the pregnancy parking? i never heard of pregnancy parking. yahoo has that in front of every building, and you remember this, i mash -- marched into the office and said -- >> who was doing yo cay gay. >> direct. i interrupted, and i said, we

need pregnancy parking, and he looked up at all of me, and he said, we sure do! [laughter] what he said was, i never thought about it before. let's do it immediately. >> just like that. >> i never thought about it before. pregnancy parking is still there. my point is that if we get more women into these jobs, we will make more. >> in the book, you said, you have to ask and it's okay to ask. you use that as the example. >> i felt comfortable asking because i was running a chunk of the company. i'm sure a lot of othersmented it, but they were not in the position to march into the office and interrupt his yoga. he would have looked up and said, who are you and why? actually, he's nice. he would have said the same thing, but they wouldn't have had that self-confidence, but i was senior. my point is that we do need all

institutional reforms, but the best way to get it is from women in the audience. go run the companies. plug in pregnancy parking. pay women equally, help women negotiate, train your managers not to tell women they are too aggressive. i think women is a huge part of the answer. >> the final question from the audience. are you gearing up for a political run in 2016 to help shape policy discussions you speak about, and if so, which office? [laughter] >> i'm not running for office in 2016. >> i understand president of the united states is open for -- >> they will -- again, i'm rooting for hillary clinton to go for that job. i'm not running for office, but i did think more women need to run, and i think more women need to run company, and i'm happy at facebook. i love the influence facebook has on the world, and i want to both do my job and help women get into those positions.

>> this was a treat for me for reasons you all don't know. in 2006, we were chatting, and we thought it would be really fun to have distinguished people come by and talk in the company, and so in a typical organizedded way, she put together a speaker series which i was fortunate enough to be the interviewer for, and in all of those years, i never had a chance to interview sheryl at google, and i did, in fact, by virtue of your initiative end up interviewing extraordinary famous people including the current president of the united states and a few past one, so, for me, this has been an amazing amazing personal experience. i thought it would be sort of interesting if you could read your book. you choose the length and area to give people a sense, and i hope you all understand the unique leadership that sheryl represents, and if all of us could emulate this style, the world would be a much better

place. >> i want to end by thanking eric for everything's done for my career and everything he's done for silicon valley. i have not read from the book ever, actually, so this is new for me. >> you don't do your own audio books? >> i do not. >> do you choose the person? >> i do. >> good? >> fabulous. >> excellent. if you don't like printed books or electronic books, buy the audio book. >> i'm going to read a little of the end. i've run the book to dream big, forge a path through the obstacle, and achieve the full potential. i'm hoping each woman sets goals and reaches for them with gusto, and i hope each man will do his part to support women in the workplace and home also with gusto. as we start using the talents of the entire population, oh institutions will be more productive, homes happier, and the children growing up in the homes will no longer be held

back by stereotypes. critics scoffed at me for trusting once women are in power they help one another since that is not always been the case. i'm willing to take that bet. the first wave of women who ascended to leadership positions were few and far between, and to survive, they focused on fitting in rather than helping others. the current wave of of female leadership is speaking up, and the more reason attain positions of power, the less pressure there is to conform and more they do for other women. research already suggests that companies with more women in leadership roles have better work life policies, smaller gender gaps, and executive compensation, and more women in mid level management. hard work of generations before us means that equality is within our reach. we can close the leadership gap now. every individual's success can make success easier for the next. we can do this for ourselves,

for one another, for our daughters, and for our sons. if we push hard, the next wave is the last wave. in the future, there will be no female leaders. there will just be leaders. [applause] i think we have with seen what it takes to be a global phenomena. first, an extraordinary business. second extraordinary business, and then the level of impacts on a global stage that all of us would love to have, and i think with sheryl, you can see it's to the just her intellect or her rich experience, but all of her, her charisma, her leadership, and i'm proud to have worked with her and looking forward to working with you and all the

things you do. what an extraordinary leader. >> thank you. >> thank. thank you. [applause] > thank you.

>> i first met this friend of mine in 1995. i had come to new york and i was looking around for stories to do and decided to do one on indian journalist who were rising in the mainstream business.