get more info at studentcam.org. you are watching booktv. coming up next, sheryl sandberg, the c.o.o. if these but, discusses well it is so difficult for women to achieve leadership roles. she talks about her own experiences. this is an hour and 15 minutes. [applause] >> let's begin by thanking the

computer history museum for putting on a seminar along with sponsors and at places such an interesting emphasis on listening and learning, to understand history and the future. thank you john, thank you everyone. ♪ [applause] [applause] >> a natural sandberg when she was running what appeared to be a third of the treasury department. [laughter] impossibly young and smart. and she impressed all less with what she did in the clinton administration the first and second term. when it came time for her to take a job, he became only the two should work at google and we chatted. we didn't have an exact position

for her, but google files hires really smart people. she worked in our financing, she learned the business. and then we figured out that we needed to have a different kind of position. she built a business than out of $20 billion and established a recruiting practice that led the company to its current excellent condition. and to say her contribution was astounding is absolutely understated in terms of the number people that she hired, she acquired about half the company. and she did all sorts of things through service marketing and so forth. and then shockingly, shockingly. [laughter] she says i'm going to work for mark zuckerberg. and i said, how could this be. and then will it was just quite -- is there something wrong?

and she said no, i'm interested in a new area. so i was like well, whatever. [laughter] and so we said that we shockingly like to go there and do extremely well and she did. and she was successful a second time, which was really something that doesn't occur very often. and i thought, wow, that's very impressive. so i figured she's doing really well. so then she decides to write a book, which immediately becomes number one the number one bestseller. so i have no idea what she is going to do is her next encore presentation. the we are talking about one of the great leaders of our industry and today we are going to talk about serious subjects. but when i think of her, i think of someone who has built two multibillion dollar businesses already, and she has a lot ahead of her. so with that, i would like to

say it is extraordinary to have your. >> i'd like to thank eric who hired me as well. eric hired me when no one else would. he gave me the best career advice of my career. which i'm sure we will get a chance to talk about. and we all get to do the things that we do because of grated mentors and advisors. and eric espinal. through google and facebook and through everything i have done. >> i think that the booklet she has written is extraordinary. and i think that it is just wonderful. >> were they laughing at? [applause] >> they really like your book. they like the title. they think it's great. they think it's a bestseller. okay. so let's try because these are serious subjects. so why did you write this book and frankly you are busy. >> as you are as well. >> you are seriously busy.

>> i wrote "lean in" because no matter how much progress we made, and get ready for the one truth. the world is overwhelmingly run by men. and i'm not sure -- i'm not sure how well that has gone. [laughter] [applause] >> let's consider this. economic war, climate change. [laughter] >> washington in what is really happening is that women have made great progress from the generation my grandmother was an until now. and men still seem to run every industry and every government in every country. and so that means that when the decisions were made that impact our world, women's voices are not heard always, not equally. so i wrote "lean in" to try to

address the issue openly and to talk about the stagnation of women are facing at the top end to give practical advice to both women and men who want to do their part to change this. >> what i would like to do is cover the topics in the book. and i recommend that you all buy the book. i suspect that every person in this room has already done so. if you have not, we are going to be selling it here. but let's talk about this. and so in addition to the external barriers erected by society, women's are hindered by bears that exist within ourselves and we hold ourselves back in ways big and small are lacking self-confidence by not raising her hands and by pulling back when we should be leaning in. so finish that thought. this, i think this is the rationale for the movement.

what you're doing with the extraordinary social phenomena, how the parties and the use of facebook, i might offer, to make all this happen and etc. >> yes, women are not always making it to the top and it's stagnating. they've had 14% of the top jobs in corporate america for 10 years. you taught me very clearly that the trend to go up in in their flat for longtime jungle up again. they often go down. so you have to be worried about that. women are held back by the external barriers, the bad public policies, sexism, discrimination, all that is very important. we are also held back by the internalization of stereotypes as well. so i my wedding, which you are at promise he remembered us. my brother and sister stood up and gave a toast and they said hello, we are the younger brother and sister of sheryl. but we are really her first employees. employee number one employee

number two. [laughter] because sheryl never played as a child. she disorganized other children's play. [laughter] and everyone laughed. and it is funny. it was funny then and it's funny now and he said it with love. but there is something that is not funny about that joke. because what they were saying is that i was a bossy little girl. [laughter] >> tell the truth. were you a bossy little girl? >> absolutely. the question is how we experience are because of the experience of stereotypes. little boys almost never call bossi. when the little boy leads, that's expected. but when a little girl tries to lead or organize other kids, she's bossi, which we are communicating at a very young age. so it is those stereotypes we internalize. everyone can do this, go to a meeting tomorrow at work and watch where people said. relative to the same level of position where they sit up front and center.

so we hold ourselves back as well metaphorically and if we are going to fix the problem, we have to solve this the extra light interior barriers. >> you talk about the problem of an executive woman at the table and you point out that some leaders and ceos have actually seen this interruption phenomenon. and they will call it out. it's the only way and i agree with us. >> more women than men get interrupted at every level. so it is an example in my it is an example in my book i've seen you and what's really important

is it's not just ceos who can do this. you don't have to be eric schmidt to do this. and if we call him out, we can change them. >> so we have men and women in the educational system. and these are broad generalizations. female performance in math and science on a broad basis and it is higher with verbal skills and math skills, and there are broad exceptions. furthermore, 58 or 59% of women are now completing college.

so what happens? when these women graduate, we are producing women into the workplace. what happens to them? are they -- is it -- are the men holding them down? are they being discriminated against? are they failing to act? how would you describe that? and there's a covert women they're your age and slightly below that have come to the workplace and have changed it and yet they have not gotten to the top. >> that is right. all the above of the above is the answer. to everything you said. women graduate higher levels than boys do in college. they get more graduate degrees. and they get more entry-level degrees with their college degrees and then it winnows out. and so every year, fewer women than men get promoted and by the time he did to the top, you are at 40% in the united states and there is not a single country in the world doesn't have 95% of its top companies run by men. and so goes like this. some of them leave the workforce if they can afford to do so.

some of them stay in the workforce but do not go for the condition. >> you talk about the stereotype threat. >> yes. people actually underperform and that is one of of the things -- the thing that's driving you? >> yes, it explains the women of leadership skills and computer science. it's also is that so important to say this is the same thing and so as you said, if you become aware of the stereotype you will support us in this is why is your mind boys and girls that they are boys or girls, and the boys do the same girls do worse. just that dimension. worse. just that mention pretty telemark format tests. the girls do really well on this test, they do better. stereotypes are boys or that they are better at math and science. so the girls underperform. we think that more of them are computer scientists and i put my son, seven years old last summer

at stamford tech camp. the parents are making a decision. thirty-five kids in that class, five of them are girls. of the five, only two of them were okay. and this is silicon valley in the play, let's wake up. [laughter] >> our generation in my age are putting their boys computer science camp. and those boys are being told that they are better and they are better because they went to computer science camp in the same thing happens for women in leadership. we don't describe it to women. so when a man leads, it's not normal. and if you are a man here, please raise your hand. if anyone has ever told you that you are too aggressive at work? [laughter] >> there's always a few. >> if you are a woman, please raise your hand if anyone has ever told you you're too aggressive at work. [laughter]

>> that response. >> okay, i think we are clear. [laughter] >> and they have asked what we think is more aggressive? [laughter] >> apparently more of them raised their hands. that was a joke, guys. [laughter] >> with the great things that you take people through these phenomenon and another when you talk about is called impostor syndrome, which drives this behavior. and what you say as both men and women are susceptible the women tend to experience it more intensely and be more a limited by it. the beauty of this is that you have vacillated between us and the complete feeling of being a fraud. so how does that -- how does that play out? and is it true? and atomic it's true. and also, how does that play out in your view in the minds of women who are trying to succeed in the workforce? >> as eric said, you don't believe that you own your success. so here's what the data tells us. is that given the level of

performance, then remember that they are slightly higher and women remember that they are slightly lower. and we know that if you ask a man why he was successful, they say -- i have to read this to you. >> a man will credit his own innate qualities and skills. >> number -- number. [laughter] >> i'm sorry, i'm the interviewer. so i better shut up. but ask a woman the same question and she will attribute it to external factors come insisting that she did well because she worked really hard and learn from others'. >> issues and take him others will say about her. what happens with this impostor syndrome is that men feel more self-confident. the amazing thing is that i just wrote a whole thing on this and it's still happening. after my book was unpublished, we had a meeting and it was a meeting of our senior management team and there is an issue that for years -- one of our senior technical leaders.

we want to face up to do something and own also. for years there have been over the last couple of months people decided that an investment worth making. so we have this kick off and i talk in the book about this and i'm pretty open and i say that i'm so grateful we are here today. because for all of these years, i really believe in us and own also. i really thought i was wrong. and this is just so fantastic. and i feel so good. and she looks out the money that cheryl and i were right in that you would all come round. [laughter] >> site facebook messaging. can i use that story in my book? >> sure. >> is like, can i use your name and not story on my book tour? >> absolutely. he's the nicest guy. so i write, don't worry, i'll make sure that you don't look egotistical. [laughter] and he said he's not worried about that. [laughter]

>> inconceivable. and it is an adjustment that we have to make. and it's like i know he feels more self-confident and i know that he can know this and women know this and apply for jobs, and all of the criteria. then men, and help women and myself adjust at times you see someone of her her gifts. she really can motivate and this is literally how she did all of these things. getting them to feel strongly in what he does notice. a snippet of her success in front of you and we will come back to this whole idea, which i think is important. and i'm still interested in this with the stereotypes and perceptions and so forth and so on. and i believe that they govern all of us.

and sometimes it's negatively correlated for women and you'll remember that as part of the recruiting event, we studied correlations of female questioners versus male questioners and when men would hire people, they would correctly predict the success would be in of a man heard a women squirt female success, it was anti-correlated and they were not -- the prediction was exactly wrong. so i am quite concerned that this stereotype bias, even in a well-run company is quite profound. >> so the gender bias that we all feel, myself included. when that happens is women were successful and powerful, they are less like. and his men get more successful, they are better like. and it's true of women and men. because oftentimes someone will say, oh, she's not as well-liked

and if someone tries to point out its gender bias, come and play, but women don't like her also. and so gender bias affects all of us because we are all raised calling little girls bossy. so that holds in all of us that i have it as well. i find myself in these patterns. it's admitting that we are safe to admit that. and the really important answer. >> so we need to try to deal with these things as a woman in the workplace and the reaction to it. and one of the things that has been covered the most about your book is the advice do you have about negotiations. and i agree with the way that you describe this. prompting the question by saying you observe the women are less likely to go for that extra part of the negotiation. and he tells her his or her own life and your inclination was to

accept the offer but your brother or friend said as someone else in another person and you make a suggestion for how women should process it is. in the way you summarize it is when you go back for the offer and the second offer in the negotiation, it's like, i want more. so what's your problem. [laughter] in the women in your advice is to legitimize the request. and i think that that is very important. the women i work with have not done this while compared to the men's. >> right, because of these biases, if a man negotiates for himself, we all like him and it's totally fun and he's supposed to want more and he deserves one and it's great. but if a woman negotiates for herself, women can negotiate on behalf of others just as well and aggressively and everyone likes to talk him. but when they negotiate from themselves. >> you describe this as crossing this minefield in high heels

backwards. >> which is difficult. >> i am sure that it is. [laughter] >> it's almost as scary as terrorism and yearbook. would you have to read his book. but that chapter is great. >> let's get back to your book. [laughter] >> so when women negotiate for themselves and they do the same thing the men do, they will be disliked and then they will pay a penalty because of it. in terms of future advancement in relationships and it's all very important. it is absolutely pay a penalty. >> on average the data is clear. and so when women negotiate for themselves, they have to legitimize it. and i don't like this advice. and i think as long as we are not getting treated in this way, we might as well understand the stereotypes and use them to make sure that we get permission to get paid as well. what women have to do is legitimize his this advice a woman can say something like

this, and i did this in my book with mark and it's book with mark and apply common is the only time we will be on the opposite sides of the table in your member that you are hiring need to run your deals. and so you will need to be a good negotiator and on about to do this. and reminding them that these are skills as part of the table. and you could say someone told me to do it. one thing that has been funny as they are all of these articles that people are asking for advice for in saying that sheryl sandberg to manassas sumac leading to a profound salary escalation and so setting this

aside, women get this and women have these jobs in this country and it's not just a problem for people. and that's not a problem just for the women who can come to the computer history museum where people are well-paid. that's a really big problem for the single mothers out there. 30% of our children in this country are being raised by single parents. almost all single mothers and that 23 cents is a big deal. and what "lean in" is about is about quality and equity throughout our economy and our country and we have to change that. >> you talk about career advice. >> this is so much fun. >> and we have to talk about this as well.

>> the best advice i ever got was from eric schmidt. but never with him on the stage. in the way it went as i was thinking about joining google and i loved it. >> cheryl has all of these details analyses. and i really wanted to say, look at my chart, doesn't need any of my criteria. there's no jobs, i have no results, have no goals, have no responsibilities. and eric put his hand on my paper and he said, don't be an idiot, which is excellent career advice. in the play, that alone is worth

the the price of admission to this. but then he said, what is the best career advice and i have passed it on to thousands of people, which is that he said google is a rocket ship. yes, we don't know what you're going to do exactly, but if you're offered a seat on a rocket ship, don't ask what. because what he said is that everyone knows companies thrive and extrapolating from that, the advice i give people is go where your skills are needed. not everyone can join the high-tech part of industry, but there are areas of every industry and specialties, where your skills are more important and there's a growing need for them. and i think that that has been the most important that i have gone and i'm very grateful for this. >> let's return now to the book. >> okay, i want to go back and i'm still upset about this 77%

number. >> i am as well. >> we agree. >> when you talk about child care and the decision to have children, it is obviously a complicated decision. in one of the problems that you describe is that unless they are high-tech and have stock options, the math does not work and to me when i look at single moms with kids and so forth, i can imagine how tough their lives are is any single component breaks down, it's a major crisis and you get this or that or what have you and it's like the solution to that -- is it to get the salaries of? and how do we solve this core problem? i have had a family, and putting him in the book and women are doing the majority of housework and kids work for better or for worse. so how do we solve that problem? and the biggest area that i

worry about is a single mom who has all of the pressure on her is that it's amazing to me that people can get through this. >> it is true. so the childcare issues exist as well. and it's very clear that we need public policy reform and institutional reform and we need jobs that are more flexible and we're the only developed country in the world that doesn't offer one day of the mandated maternity leave, something like 40 to 50% of women in this country. and then they don't get a single one since they paid to take care of themselves or deal with maternity. and so we must provide a portal childcare. and sometimes they can afford us chou care that they need and

they're like, right now, and barely breaking even, so why do it. and i have a story for my friend in the book and she did that and was about to drop out and someone said wait a minute, if you stay and we will make more money. and so she stayed in and 10 years later her salary covered plenty of childcare and plenty of other things. so we need both. we need better negotiating and salaries and women to look ahead at what is coming with what they have right now. >> and you talk about this with choice of a husband. and this is in regards to who that partner is. and let me just quote you. looking for them, my advice is the bad boys come in the cool boys, crazy boys, but do not marry them. >> correct smacked a good thing

that made bad boy sexy do not make them good husband. >> this is very good advice. [applause] >> i'm just reading from your book. >> i stand by my dating advice. [laughter] >> you can be whoever you want. in his marriage. or the last minute, however one when does that. if your woman and thinking about making a commitment to a woman come you don't have a problem. because two women or men will split this. and it's one you get this and women do the majority of childcare and housework and here they do 30 or 40% and as a couple, a man has one job and one has to jobs and 77% of mothers are in the workforce and i know know women who have jobs like mine or any of the women who occupy leadership positions. most of us have husbands and

children in all of us have supportive husband. all us do. >> i can actually say that indeed, you made the right choice. he is perfect. [laughter] >> and she goes into the perfectness, which is true. [laughter] >> and you also describe this, procedures that women can use. >> asked to screen out. >> okay, so you quote this in the she explains that the way she would do dating is that she would determine this and arrange a date and then at the last minute reschedule it and see how we handle that. and so if you pass that test, the next date would be scheduled and then it would turn out that she had to fly and he had to fly there as well. so did this work? do this work. [laughter] >> that was a story, more of a story than advice.

[laughter] >> but it is a very important point, which is that as a telemann, date whoever you want, but marry someone who wants a quality who thinks that women should be strong and too if you want to be in the workforce, thinks that women should work with you and who will support you and that does not mean say yes as they sit on the couch. getting up in the middle of the night to change diapers. because that is what this takes. men who have had successful careers have had wives that have help them along. >> in pointing this out as well. >> yes. >> you point out that there is the vast majority of female ceos that have strong families and kids in the whole bit. and they work it out. >> yes, like men. the and the reason that this is so important is that these lessons and expectations that we have our deeply held and i will

ask another question. if you're a man, please raise your hand if anyone has ever said to you, should you be working? [laughter] in the fly, don't be shy. exactly. if you're a woman in the working of kids, raise your hand if anyone has ever said, should you be working. in our assumption is that men will develop and women will not. women have to choose. and that is wrong. because most women have to do both. and we have an economy and society were most women have to work and most women have children. so they are doing both an alternative is about how women can't and shouldn't do both. and that is just unfair to them.

and you talk in the book about the solutions. >> this is about solution. >> clearly a bad solution. [laughter] >> you should've given advice and this is sort of another one of these messages, i thank him in the way you would argue it and perhaps you are projecting this -- that it works when the kids didn't, but now you quote more efron who says embrace the messiness of life. and rejoice in the complication and don't be frightened. you can always change your mind. i've had workers and three husbands. and so you ultimately say that under this enormous pressure, you are running this

extraordinary structure and even with the perfect husband and you decided to sort of mediate your time, and you have to give something up. did you give up organization? your work performance didn't suffer greatly manage to sort of pull it off. how to do a? >> welcome i think what happens is that i was in europe two weeks ago in amman said come you want to hire the most efficient person out there. hiring another. a woman said i'm going to take this job and i will work 8:00 a.m. to 3:00 a.m., and i will be your most productive copywriter and it's something you can measure, and she is. i thought i was efficient for hackett, but now i am. i was not that efficient. >> my tolerance for unnecessary meetings went way down. and i think that what is happening to working women is

that working mothers of the following then we fall short at times. it's easier for men to stay there. and we compare ourselves to the women that are at home and as a working mother, you can spend your entire life feeling bad. and when you don't, people will do it for you. but a story in my book about dropping my son off at the local public school we go to and i dropped him off in kindergarten. and i dropped him off at his favorite t-shirt and the woman opened the door and said st. patrick's day, he supposed wear were green. and i think, really? really? some lucky that he has a t-shirt. [laughter] >> and this would never have happened to my husband. my husband dropped him off wearing the same t-shirt on the same woman would open the door

and say, you are such a wonderful father. wonderful for driving her son to school today. but i'm a woman, subversive and happened to me. so i did what anyone would do, i spent my entire day warning about the green t-shirt. should i go determined by a green t-shirt, will i be the annoying mom with a green t-shirt. >> by the way come, the man would've forgotten the entire transaction. [laughter] >> correct. >> what sort of an absolute panic when i called my husband and i explained that it will be my fault because i will work and the other women don't work and they remember the green t-shirt t-shirt and my husband just laughed and said, you know, our son learned something important today. he went he doesn't have to be like everyone else. >> up the difference. because my husband and i, we do the same with their children and i feel guilty all the time to

this day, even having written a book telling everyone i felt guilty and my husband thinks you are a. [laughter] >> my husband thinks he's just a hero. a hero of t-shirts. [laughter] >> and the difference is about letting ourselves off the hook. most of the things we do, we do eat 5% of them. >> and redefine the situation you're in to be success. >> upgrade. doing the best that you can. >> one of the things you talk about that was news to me was the primary caregiving expectations for stay-at-home mothers have actually gone up. >> estimates important. >> and we think the people are spending less time with her kids. in federalist couple decades number has gone up by 60% by my math. >> yes, it's an important science. and working women, working mothers, expectations are going up on both sides are to the wonderful technology that eric and others here have filled. and people work longer hours.

my mother says, work in my generation was 95 and i was at. then there were no cell phones. there is no android. he could not be bothered on weekends. the weekends. and we've all worked longer hours now. mothering has gone through the same expectation and if you think about what parenting was, my mother was a stay-at-home mother. full-time. and we didn't have play dates that she arranged her if she didn't arrange a play date there is no such thing. roser bicycles down the block. and it's called intensive mothering. the data shows that a full-time working mother working outside of the home today as many hours engaged in direct child interaction is a nonworking mother did in the 70s. >> that is a hopeful statement. those are the kids in this generation will be good. >> yes, my figured when i figured out that i was actually spending as much real time with

my children, working as my mother did, it turned out to be true. and that was a relief. and so these expectations of more than full-time work were really hitting women and it's not possible to do both of those. >> finishing up and getting to your questions. and you talk in the book a little bit about how women treat other women. and also when he went to facebook, you face increased scrutiny. and marissa mayer has gone through this as well and yes, we told her to stay google as well. [laughter] >> you guys train is also well. >> they don't listen.

and what is the message here? what do you want for men and women to do on the set of criticisms? >> some women worked in world where only one woman could get to the top and then it makes sense. and the other things is that we have different expectations and the man is asked for a favor at work and he does it, everyone, men and women are super grateful and if he doesn't come he faces a penalty and he's visiting us up to do.

and they and i think the fundamental observation as we are 50% of the population. >> at shopping. >> yes. >> if we work together, if there are no more motherboards, i work with those about bringing women who work in the home and the workforce together, publishing this, letters to thank our mothers for mother's day and we are all doing it. and women need to support each other because when i think about the women who are at home, i can either feel insecure because i don't feel like i was as good a mother, or i could fill grateful for everything that they are doing at my kids school in my community. and i think the same thing for those others who work like me. i think that you feel better

about ourselves and stop beating ourselves up so much, we can also be more generous to each other. >> okay, let's talk about the book and the book to her and the reviews and so forth. and with the typical courage you launched into this at full blast speed ahead. and number one on the best-seller list, likely to be a number one for many months to come, i think, it's really -- it's essentially a global conversation is incredibly important. >> yes. >> let's start. i will start by asking what is the stupidest criticism that you have ever heard of you and your book report? >> known as criticize my book. [laughter] >> everyone loves my book. [laughter] enact i think that the criticism that i don't think is a

thoughtful is saying that i don't believe that other things need to change other than internally. it is not grounded in if you read my book, it's very hard to decide. >> yes, presumably those that just didn't read the book all. >> yes. we need institutional policy. we need public policy to change. and i also do a lot to explain why we are fooling ourselves back. >> it's like, something that i need to explore more. >> the best criticism and the one that i struggled a lot is in trying to change stereotypes, i

am embracing the stereotypes. so for example, i have told women in my book to smile and say that they can justify themselves for promotions and raises. and that is embracing a stereotype. i'm acknowledging that you will be more successful getting a raise you smile. i want to embrace a stereotype to change it and i struggle with this so much in the book. then i decided that i am a pragmatist. the world is what it is, if more women smile, they will get raises and become ceos. and people ascribe his women and then the next generation won't have to smile and say this. >> is feminism 2.0. [laughter] >> it was a specific view which is largely a correct one that women need to be empowered and treated the same and one of the huge gains. and feminism 2.0 is that there

is a way to do this, which gets you into our. >> yes, what happened with me is that i really struggled and i think it's a fair criticism. i struggled with that and i decided to follow it. i decided that one i negotiating you are one of the people are taught me how come i would always tell my team to go into that room and you are going to win or lose before you go into the room. and it's how much you understand about the other side and so i decided that empowering women to understand and use them to their advantage is stereotypes, it's party to negotiate an unfair world. and it's hard for me when i give that advice and it's fair criticism. >> okay, let's ask some of the audience. how you feel that the book's reception? how you feel and did you have a point there really got across? >> okay, eric makes an amazing point. which is that revolutions are easier to start and i don't know if this is a revolution. i wanted people to notice that

women were stagnating. i wanted them to understand a stereotype that is holding us back in for men and women to try to change them. in the play, if you are a business person, you write a book. and i'm really gratified that so many people have heard it and it's been on the best-seller list and it's been eight weeks. but the real question is what happens now? does anyone remember that when so many people are called aggressive at work, so many women, 20 years from now. because my book can only do so much and i can only do the best i can. it started with debbie, who's here tonight, i worked with her to try to help women, all is coming together and we hope that you join us. we are this close 175,000 participants and if you go to facebook and like us, we are there. and it's unclear what happens from here on out. and this is going to take so many more voices.

men and women, trying to change the stereotypes. >> how have you responded and hasn't changed anything about your approach? have you modified anything based on the reception? and the cavalcade of comments and so forth? >> i don't think there's anything that has been said that i didn't try to address. so i think what people said was not surprising. but the volume, the completely shopping. >> but your book talks about that because you point out that women raise greater scrutiny. and you do as well. >> yes, that's right. [laughter] >> yes, i think what it tries to do is get involved and i set this up with debbie and others as a community and we did it in

an open way. it exists on facebook as well. in the community is created by the community. we are helping people set up circles, which can be groups of men or women, usually those are starting all over, it's been exciting to see. in a circle is whatever people wanted to be and maybe they were in a different industry and they would meet once a month and supported header i heard now that there is a circle being started with fathers and daughters and i never thought of that. i think it's brilliant and i love those fathers. they are so lucky. so we did is create a platform that's what we do in our industry. and we put out ideas and people are running with them. and as your book says, we don't control us. the internet is the first thing that we invented and do not control. >> that's right, we are

unleashing a community and people will go and try to follow and support. >> another question, what was a pivotal transition event or moment in your career that define who you are or what you did with your career, and was it something that you anticipated or didn't occur randomly? >> there so many things. certainly joining google with you, understanding the mission and how important the mission was to me and what i was doing. i mean, when eric recruited me, all of our initial conversations were all about what google is doing. and you kept saying -- >> yes, one of the simple secrets to motivating people is giving them permission to change the world and they will work for you hard. >> that's right. so nokia just been announced as chairman and not ceo, you are about to be see over the world

and know it. eric is saying, look at what google is doing. my greatest hope is not a book. but it is all those women who have gotten raises. those daughters who have fathers who give their daughters the comments to believe that they can go forward. >> would you have had the same success with women mentors that you have had with male mentors? and the corollary question to that is how do you make yourself available as a mentor, and will you be my mentor? [laughter] >> okay, this person is not read the book. because in the book i say one of the worst question to ask anyone is will you be my mentor. [laughter] enact it is interesting. so it only works for men. and it had a couple of female mentors that but maybe none. i work for men. one of the points i make is that if we rely on women's mentor women, we will never succeed because there aren't enough women at the top to match all women.

and there are unspoken things that are holding us back. and so a man and a man in the room having a meeting alone or maybe at a bar, having a drink, it looks like, business and mentoring, a man and a woman, having alone looks like -- exactly. an older man and a younger woman meeting alone. let's be clear. we are talking about this, getting people into power, 86% are men and this is all about not just making it safe, but cheering on men to spend time with women. >> we called and covered the bob steele story. have of the city of new york says that he treats men and women equally. and i didn't know him when i wrote a the story. and i've met him send. >> absolutely. >> to 15 years ago, goldman sachs, he announced that he had daughters and he didn't feel

comfortable having dinner with women. so he would have no dinners. >> but he had dinner with his family. >> yes, he did. he had no dinners at work and he was basically saying that i understand this and wants to talk about this and i'm making a sequel. supply, so he asked will you have dinner alone with women and he said absolute comments for my job. and some men will say yes and some will say no. but either way, let's make it explicit and equal. >> yes, these are good examples of things to come. let's get the additional questions over here. >> what tips you have for women and men who have taken time off and are finding it tough to get back into the workplace?

>> it's usually an issue for women. the with the recession, there has also been an issue for men as well. my best tip is looking for areas where your skills are needed. and being adaptable and her skills. in this industry changes, it's less relevant times. if you hire based on skills come you can adopt and i think other industry should look to silicon valley, which has done very well. basically adopting that practice. and that will help a lot of people get back into the world and the workforce. >> another way to promote women's interests is to have a growing economy.

>> that is a problem that is very relevant. we are struggling with immigration reform and also policy issues in this country and they are directly related and which make the whole economy rocketship. and there are plenty of seats. >> revenue solves all problems. [applause] >> he said this for a very long time. >> cash in the bank. [laughter] >> not hypothetical cash for the cash in the bank. [laughter] >> what's interesting is that we had a big question facing our country, which is our economy -- is going to grow at the same rate that has grown historically and the answer we are providing now is no. the reason it is that is because we do not have the workforce we need to grow our economy quickly enough and there are only two answers to that. there's education and immigration and we do not educate our children close to what other countries are educating a look at the computer

scientist and you and i are seeing this coming out of india and china. it comes out of india and china everyday and they are more and better educated and we need to fix this. we are graduating 11% of our kids without being able to read. and a lot of the great company as a silken valley, they were built on immigrants. >> facebook opened. >> yes, there is a group the mark set up and i'm a member as well, which is part of what i'm trying to get this done. and in the spirit of these questions, have you had much response from washington? and what is in the works for this? >> or are they just ignore you as usual. >> and people are listening. and so i think the fastest change we have seen from the book are people and companies and individual women and men. we are seeing women starting circles all over. we are seeing engagement around us as well.

and he has said that i thought i was good at us and this and we are not so good at this. and warren buffett talked about women this year and this is training women not to be nice, but tell them that this is the bottom line. >> there's a global competitiveness with asia.

.. >> i mean, when i was 6, my dad was in my room like, you're well enough to go to school, fever doesn't matter. if i was drinking in college, hungover, we're running, on the street. my parents were definitely, you

know, go out and do them type of parents, but they were incredibly supportive. >> many political problems are driven by old men in policy positions -- [laughter] climate, health, gun control, environments, dot, dot, dot, where women have different views. how does your advice apply to getting more women into politics? >> yeah. i'm really passionate about getting women into politics. the book argues for women in positions of power and positions of government that are important. i happen to be in london a few weeks ago when thatcher was buried, and she was elected 34 years ago, the only female head of government in the world when elected. over 34 years, there's been 17 -- there are hundreds of countries, and that's just not good enough. i believe that if we had more women in politics, we'd have less war. >> i agree with that. [applause]

so following up, question from the audience, do you think it's hillary clinton's time to lean in and win the presidency? that's what the question is. [applause] >> yes. i want hillary clinton to run. i told her, i'll tell you, and i wrote the book because my daughter, brought home a song for my kids for president's day, my daughter was 6, my son 4, and she listened to the song, and looked up and said, mommy, why are they all boys? i think hillary clinton can be the female president, hope she does, but if not, i hope there's no too long before there's one. >> good. another question. do you think an increase in female entrepreneurship could solve the issue of women not receiving promotions by giving women the power to make these decisions? >> yes. i believe very strongly that women in leadership positions help not just those women, but all women.

companies with more women in senior roles have better workplace policies for women, and so, yes, we need women in the big companies, in congress, and we need more women interneuros. we have a lot of females entrepreneurs, but we don't have nearly as them as we have men, a they don't get funding at the same level. interestingly. look at the return. there was a recent study done that the return on investing in an entrepreneur was higher, and that they asked for the money they need, not the money they might need, and so we need more female entrepreneurs to ask for funding, and they need to get it. >> more cash efficient. >> measure cash efficient. >> excellent. you built the hiring machine, as i described it, google, which is fan fantastic, and your legacy in the company i see every day, and i'm sure you feel the same way on facebook because i know you did the same thing with facebook and one of the questions here is

what do you look for when you're hiring someone? how do you actually make these decisions? >> the most important i look for in hiring someone, and, again, i learned this from you, is skills. skills. not experience. experience is great. you can get the per spect skill base and right experience, that's great, but our industry changes so quickly that almost none of us have done anything we do now before; right? it's all new. you have to have skills. i asked people how they would handle specific situations, and i'm looking for flexibility, and i'm looking for the skills, and at a meeting we had with our summer entrance, never forget this, a lot were mba students asking about their career past, and the worst question to ask is what's your career path, and that was very good advice because she was saying we want you to be flexible. >> the way i describe it is when people called me up and said, i'm a vp now, and i need to be,

you know, senior vice president or chief operating officer, whatever, in your company, and i would stay, click. that's not how we operate. we want you to join our cause. we want you to believe in what we do, and you'll be fine. that's workedded well for the people who managed to not screw up; right? actually, showed up, and said, how can i help? >> a couple people we recruited together, if you remember. >> i do. >> down in the early days because that was probably about the extent of it. >> yeah, but they still remember. [laughter] >> but the point about, also, and i give the advice in the book, titles for the wrong reason to take a job. tithe les don't mean anything. both jobs i took at google, which you pointed out, i was offered jobs with more senior titles elsewhere, but the google job is a way better job, and even i would have been ceo on other things i did, and i

workedded with mark. titles do not matter as much as the opportunity you have to have impact. >> another question. you dip into a new company for a bigger role from facebook to google, obviously, does it take meaning to get that new big opportunity? a career mobility question. >> the data say thats for women it does, but not always for all of the negotiating reasons we talked about, but i think, again, educating ourselves, we can change that. toy don't think it takes moving on. sometimes it does. sometimes it doesn't. i think it takes solving problems. i think the right way to approach a creesh is what problems can i solve? one of my favorite hiring stories in the book, ibay, i just joined facebook, she called, say i want to work with you at facebook. i thought about calling you and telling you the things i'm good at and what i like to do, but i figure everyone's doing that, so instead, i want to know what is your biggest problem, and can i solve it? >> exactly. >> my job hit the floor.

no one says that. my problem is recruiting. we've gone through every interview, had not found anyone to hire yet, and you can solve it. she came in and runs all of human resources and she's been great trying to solve our problems, not hers. >> this is a great question. oh. pay attention to this question. do you think that part of genter bias behavior in men and women may be genetic as well as social? >> it is such a profound question. i try to be fair in the book. i do not think men and women do not have yes nittic differences. that's silly. >> too many negatives. >> sorry, i think they have differences. >> fair enough. [laughter] >> i have a sown and daughter, and my son takes any toy to hit the other toy, and my daughter takes two and makes them kiss. there are differences. [laughter] >> and you're trying to solve

these by forcing -- >> yeah, but here's what we know. i don't -- i believe there are genetic differences between boys and girls and men and women. leadership is not one of them. leadership. leadership can have typically male trips, typically female, but leaders have both, and that's documented over and over. leaders have both. we can associate what is femme anymorety with leadership as much as we associate masculinity with nurturing. >> another sort of one of these interesting and loaded questions. what is your thing about a women's physical appearance in the workplace and how it can help or hurt her career? >> >> you know, the physical appearance one is a real issue. it's much more of an issue for women than for men. you know, i used to tell women at google to dress appropriately. again, it was not -- dress for success. i used to give -- me and my boss called it dress for success talk. we'd hire amazingbly smart women

from great places with great, great skills, and, you know, sometimes they looked like they were going to a nightclub, and that was not going to help them at work, and it was the same advice as negotiating, but i didn't like telling them, maybe you should dress more -- it's silicon valley, i suggested jean, not shrts; right? i thought presenting themselves as various professionals, which in the area does mean jeans, was pretty important, and so i don't overly focus on it. i'm not into the clothes in any way shape, or form, but presenting ourselves appropriately, the same way we wouldn't walk in and say something dumb. we care about the perception. >> another question. how do you get more women into real and perceived places of power like public company boardses and directors? do what european governments did, and require a certain percentage of women to be board members? >> so the issue on quota is is a

raging tacet, not here, but particularly in europe. i think the issue is that i think each country picks what itments to do. i'm not arguing for quotas in the united states because it's not the most important intervention, and for us right now, and the republican i don't think it's the most important intervention is because if you look at cries that put it in, such as norway and the scandinavia countries it's not moved any other numbers. norway have a law that in 2006 that required quotas for women on corporate boards, achieved more women on corporate boards, up to 40%, and it has not moved any other numbers. having both, as you know, and i think what we really want to do is move the numbers all the way throughout to operating jobs, to ceos, and i want us to see us do things that move numbers throughout, not just in one place. >> another question from the audience. how do you react to signals like messages like you're too aggressive at work? how do you handle it when that comes in? how do you behave?

>> so it's the most important thing lean in is trying to do. i'm trying to help. it's easier for people to address that, and part of me is gratified to think it's working a bit. jill, who i know, a friend of mine, a very, very talented woman, editor of the "new york times," there was an arm written about her criticizing her for thing, and a bunch of people wrote, she's told she's too aggressive. that happens to women, not men. the awareness -- >> yes, the ability for the crowd to crowd source the response mitigates it to some degree. >> i hope "lean in" and other things people are doing helps that whereas before you had to start from scatch saying, well, i appreciate it, one of the ways i'm too aggressive, you know, we're getting help training managers is so important. a man who started the conversation by saying i didn't read the book, which, is a little weird; right? he works for me. wouldn't you pretend you read the book? [laughter]

let's leave that last judgment aside. i have not read the book, but i have listened to you for the last five years, i've been working for you, and i listen to what you say. we did the performance reviews, annual ones, and he got feedback from a woman who said he was too aggressive. rather than write down "too aggressive," he went back to men and women with that feedback and asked them what did she do specifically? they answered, and he said, if i man did those things, would you have thought he was aggressive? they said no. the best thing we can do is i want to men the engage and read the book and people in power to understand that. >> the core message is that men who are typically one have to police the bias? >> and women will be able to say, you know, there's a lot of data that says i want to ask you specifically, best feedback is not be too offensive. you want to be open to it to continue to give it to them, give them feedback, but say,

let's talk about this. how am i too aggressive? can we get specifics, and i think it's appropriate to bring up gender and i have to change behaviors, grateful for the feedback, but if a man did those things, is it too aggressive? >> a couple more, and we'll finish up. a lot of advice for solving internal issues, but what can we do to solve the externt -- external issues that refers to public policies and institutional issues. >> i think there's a lot to do. we can pass better laws, have more women, and i also think we can run the companies and change the policies ourselves. the book startses with a story, happened at google, i was pregnant, very pregnant. they called me project whale, it was named after me. this one particularly sensitive engineer was a fair comment, and one day i was late for a

meeting, and i had to park far away, and i was really sick because i tried to run, didn't work, and i talked to my husband said where's the pregnancy parking? i never heard of pregnancy parking. yahoo has that in front of every building, and you remember this, i mash -- marched into the office and said -- >> who was doing yo cay gay. >> direct. i interrupted, and i said, we need pregnancy parking, and he looked up at all of me, and he said, we sure do! [laughter] what he said was, i never thought about it before. let's do it immediately. >> just like that. >> i never thought about it before. pregnancy parking is still there. my point is that if we get more women into these jobs, we will make more. >> in the book, you said, you have to ask and it's okay to ask. you use that as the example.

>> i felt comfortable asking because i was running a chunk of the company. i'm sure a lot of othersmented it, but they were not in the position to march into the office and interrupt his yoga. he would have looked up and said, who are you and why? actually, he's nice. he would have said the same thing, but they wouldn't have had that self-confidence, but i was senior. my point is that we do need all institutional reforms, but the best way to get it is from women in the audience. go run the companies. plug in pregnancy parking. pay women equally, help women negotiate, train your managers not to tell women they are too aggressive. i think women is a huge part of the answer. >> the final question from the audience. are you gearing up for a political run in 2016 to help shape policy discussions you

speak about, and if so, which office? [laughter] >> i'm not running for office in 2016. >> i understand president of the united states is open for -- >> they will -- again, i'm rooting for hillary clinton to go for that job. i'm not running for office, but i did think more women need to run, and i think more women need to run company, and i'm happy at facebook. i love the influence facebook has on the world, and i want to both do my job and help women get into those positions. >> this was a treat for me for reasons you all don't know. in 2006, we were chatting, and we thought it would be really fun to have distinguished people come by and talk in the company, and so in a typical organizedded way, she put together a speaker series which i was fortunate enough to be the interviewer for, and in all of those years, i never had a chance to interview sheryl at google, and i did, in fact, by virtue of your initiative end up interviewing extraordinary

famous people including the current president of the united states and a few past one, so, for me, this has been an amazing amazing personal experience. i thought it would be sort of interesting if you could read your book. you choose the length and area to give people a sense, and i hope you all understand the unique leadership that sheryl represents, and if all of us could emulate this style, the world would be a much better place. >> i want to end by thanking eric for everything's done for my career and everything he's done for silicon valley. i have not read from the book ever, actually, so this is new for me. >> you don't do your own audio books? >> i do not. >> do you choose the person? >> i do. >> good? >> fabulous. >> excellent. if you don't like printed books or electronic books, buy the audio book. >> i'm going to read a little of the end. i've run the book to dream big,

forge a path through the obstacle, and achieve the full potential. i'm hoping each woman sets goals and reaches for them with gusto, and i hope each man will do his part to support women in the workplace and home also with gusto. as we start using the talents of the entire population, oh institutions will be more productive, homes happier, and the children growing up in the homes will no longer be held back by stereotypes. critics scoffed at me for trusting once women are in power they help one another since that is not always been the case. i'm willing to take that bet. the first wave of women who ascended to leadership positions were few and far between, and to survive, they focused on fitting in rather than helping others. the current wave of of female leadership is speaking up, and the more reason attain positions of power, the less pressure there is to conform and more they do for other women.

research already suggests that companies with more women in leadership roles have better work life policies, smaller gender gaps, and executive compensation, and more women in mid level management. hard work of generations before us means that equality is within our reach. we can close the leadership gap now. every individual's success can make success easier for the next. we can do this for ourselves, for one another, for our daughters, and for our sons. if we push hard, the next wave is the last wave. in the future, there will be no female leaders. there will just be leaders. [applause] i think we have with seen what it takes to be a global

phenomena. first, an extraordinary business. second extraordinary business, and then the level of impacts on a global stage that all of us would love to have, and i think with sheryl, you can see it's to the just her intellect or her rich experience, but all of her, her charisma, her leadership, and i'm proud to have worked with her and looking forward to working with you and all the things you do. what an extraordinary leader. >> thank you. >> thank. thank you. [applause] >> thank you.

>> i first met this friend of mine in 1995. i had come to new york and i was looking around for stories to do and decided to do one on indian journalist who were rising in the mainstream business. when i was interviewing the

people who reached the top positions someone mentioned anita. the person describes her as the bright kid who was going places. she was reported on the security industry. she did go places because i met her again just a couple years ago when a group formed and anita was appointed the london chief of burro. let's start off, you have been wanting to write about the whole south asian area and what was so compelling about this case? >>