>> i have a little surprised because i checked 100 years ago today just data of

curiosity, november 4, they do 13 sid is is is preparing to gear up for war against the major power. president wilson had just given an ultimatum to that nation's head of state. but that major power was on this side of the of the antic. and the great menace of that moment so i found this on the front page of "the new york times." the next 17 pages there is paper not one single mention of europe that there is any menace from europe. where our featured authors today have so masterfully chronicled the seeds of the real-world four were already germinating. it has concluded to set the

stage and now we look brodeur with a deadly confrontation. so it is my great pleasure to welcome margaret macmillian and master chronicler of her new book "the war that ended peace." describing from paris and it's very close to my own party and on her side robert , i will not lifted it to but that is the book. [laughter] it is masterful i must say. but it's of course, show how the great war paved the way to a great understanding to what was already building in europe. also a great passion of mine since college especially -- a specially my last book that is the new dishes just in time for the 100th

anniversary for the start of the war next summer. speaking of which coming there are many ways to approach but fundamentally they come down to personalities and integrity. of want to start a quotation from duke robert. diplomats and politicians are crackheads have the power and authority to say yes or no mobilizing the army's compromised carrying of the plans already drawn up by military. , a good question is the uncontrollable forces inevitably moving towards war or was that individuals? >> title said there were not forces moving but i am reluctant to talk about inevitability because that means we through upper hand to say there is nothing we can do and i often think

there are two choices even pushing to war with the arms race winner is a lot of people that if that we will not ever have a war game with the international and socialist movement that immediately would not take place in the capitalist war but it seems europe was poised between these forces but i've would not use the word inevitable. >> host: robert you are known as the consummate biographer. so many of your works but it seems to be naval strength if we think of the great war it is the last bastion of trench warfare. the you shift to the likes of the crowned heads of europe, which was it?

the "dreadnought" or the people who were dreadful? [laughter] >> the dreadnoughts work created by the people. william will back to was notorious as the grandchild who spent his summers in england and desired he was half english and desired to be accepted by his english family in the british people. and his mother was victoria's oldest child, etc., etc.. also heir to the german throne and subject to the imperial aptitudes and

swagger of bismarck germany. germany became in that generation from the time that williams grandfather became emperor after the collapse of france, became the greatest military power on the continent with the greater our me. i wholly agree she said it better that all of these factors industrial military and so forth were at the disposition not playthings but the apparatus which individuals were operating. therefore it was very important who these individuals were, what the antecedents had been

geologically, politically, d omestically. william was the emperor of germany, a physically afflicted and psychologically i think afflicted man. he had great power i will not call its evil, but for destruction. and was constantly shifting back and forth between a desire to do good and be recognized is in europe as a factor for good. >> host: but i am launched from what she said, i would say the "dreadnought" race was because williams wanted a great navy with the high seas fleet. britain and france already gobbled up the colony's. but nobody knew quite what

the german navy was for. the british did not and would ask themselves as he has the most powerful army in europe why does he need a great navy? who was he supposed to be building against? >> that is an interesting point of margaret's. one of the seminal events leading up to the war itself was the host of empires led by these great leaders and it brought more empires to win and was one fell swoop than any other event in history. 1913 had these empires certainly become untenable in one of the forces that got us into this conflict? >> at the beginning is untenable i think it was speeded up by the world war when people in africa and

asia as of the europeans could do in the sub they were better suited to rule but by 1913 the world was divided out but not much left. there was china but said the general feeling we really would end in a war in the palace was circling around china and the ottoman empire but going back you couldn't be a great power without having an empire. we don't think like that. but with any other aspect of human activity as part of the dominant power what made it the dominant but that influence is huge because he

respected the idea that great power have empires and have navy's you cannot have a great power without the navy to protect your empire and i am entrenching never read anything so wonderful and i read somewhere that sermons should be given in german churches. >> host: but that is a narrow slice of course, now they are important with the arrival of airplanes but then that this would become critical but then to bowed

down? >> the trouble with this very erratic person who has a love-hate relationship with britain he also feared the down but wilhelm was in charge of a powerful nation. it would not have mattered to elevate the ince but maybe the rest of europe. [laughter] with the german reunification you have an hour to half more powerful but he had a great deal of power but that is what made him so dangerous. >> host: with this imperial presidency it doesn't work much any more.

winston churchill and was able to dictate so many different things it seems to be changing with the imperial leader. but certainly barack obama is a president and stumbling enacting legislation. i am a lifelong democrat a as i remember adelaide stevenson but i come to believe in retrospect

ironclad eisenhower was president. he had the experience but the presence and the reputation to stand up and he had military superiority. personality matters. i think the buildup of the german navy that kaiser wanted for the reasons margaret has expressed not showing a real challenge in britain but as the add-on to military power we will be a great world power. and the british food

depended that was expert and a tiny relatively they only had the navy that gave them or provided them the pax britannica to police the seas for german commercial trade and the evidence of power of the ability but that was unthinkable and that is why the government came in with all kinds of social plans, education, old age, and spent every pound. >> every historian with the saba proximate cause of the

war was the realtime cables what is your present of this period? >> they probably be affected more like a kaleidoscope. have trouble keeping the cause of the war i think it is a confluence of influences the of the timing. things happen in a particular sequence. by 1914 you also have to have the growing acceptance of the possibility of war that extracted more and more with those expectations some people think it might be a relief looking like a thunderstorm. it is relief to get it over

with and get it over then have peace but also there was a danger there is a series of crisis looking closer and closer today. but there was a sense of complacency that in the summer of 1914 the first people did not take it seriously the british but those headlines are not about what is happening in the balkans. we have a combination prepared to except without terrible expense even though they should have known better.

on the other hand, it is another crisis. it's not get people taking the crisis until a was to lay. >> host: but i am fascinated to the role that you think of that to pinpoint played progress seems to of been very crucial to priorities of the powers involved. could this war have occurred with the tensions of the baltic. >> there was great power rivalry is but marshall went looking for ward 1906.

but the balkans was particularly dangerous. like the middle east today or the south china seas not just local interest. in the balkans you had active nationalism but you also had great power interest with the russians was sentimental mostly from the of black sea and other exports went out that way and then you see it as the existential threat with

german interest and italy so accommodation of local rivalries of outside powers. >> host: i am interested robert of your perspective of the last quarter-century since to have been to the archives has this changed since you first wrote your book a quarter of a century ago? >> i have five or bricks -- five or six books to learn later web for a share research has taught us. i never felt this kind of a

conference or a panel on this subject. going back to russia and libya interested to know what you end matt tastings and the russians that started the more. and others. the war began 10 months ago them probably that is enough i don't think publishers would agree with me. and i will look to see what

they think. i would just say talking about the balkans. i always felt the government in vienna was very worried about the serbian influence that they were looking for an excuse to do something about their. increasingly militarily. the pretext was perfect with a young man under that influence.

nobody approved then error. [laughter] but when serbia gave the ultimatum to a strip -- austria along with other things to see judicial panel to interrogate or trace back the connections that the fascination had to serbia and so forth and kaiser was aware it that austria was germany's only ally in europe that it was crumbling in its tahitian they really

needed to do is things. >> the emperors' tried various ways to stop the progression but just a pretax but a culmination of this very dangerous situation in the balkans. but in russia they would strike france down first but it did not turn out that way

>> before return to the members. >> times ra. >> i agree with. >> host: before we turn to the members the councils known for the great thinking alike to reflect five lessons and i want to read another passage for your buck over world is facing similar challenges summer revolutionary or it theological raising of militants or protest movements by china in the united states. said during a previous crisis large swath had supported them to preserve the peace. this clearly failed. what lessons can we bring if any? >> not very helpful but with

the international relations with germany that are rising in power the yet uncertain how to express that. so perhaps not with these powers so it needs but it is no longer powerful as it once was. >>. >> why did it work then? >>.

>> as they were all cousins they felt in the case of wilhelm and she said god had put them there. but they identified themselves deeply with their country's. but what you have was nationalist forces pushing yet it is unfortunate but the public opinion can sometimes make relations more difficult rather than last what you think of china and japan today? with a very intense nationalist opinion instead of mass media that puts pressures on government and another possible lesson to

change a path in the world sometimes great powers are thrown in by their allies in nato have as much control as they would like. serbia was rejected by russia that gave them recklessness and i think they behaved which is the lesser ally of germany but in the present age with smaller allies conceded states and israel is china and north korea? because the prestige of a greater powers tied up the lesser powers so that gives them a freer hand to behave as they wish. >> host: that is a good segue into the next segment i'd like to invite members to join for conversation and

a reminder the meeting is on the record. fifth speak directly into the microphone you know, the drill. keep the precise so we have as many members to speak for. >> eighth thing. >> some years ago there was a book on the same subject called europe's last summer the focus was to say that's vienna was sold when arch villain of this situation and we agree with that. one book that i thoroughly enjoyed it is tough to sort

it out but the kaiser had the constitutional authority to make war or not. but they both often pulled back the with the indication of germany where think at the time was firm on this side of peace but had no choice to agree but then the kaiser gave way and gave knowledge his army was always my army many called him timid because he would back down on previous conversations when he had with a close friend december december 19143 times he said i am not backing down this time. there was a dangerous pressure to show he could be

a decisive leader. but he was very pessimistic with germany but the kaiser made the decision we will debate forever i think. >> [inaudible] >> the question was to the kaiser want it? the german mobilization plan was a war on two fronts they had a separate plan to wage war against russia and country and they stop to that plan by 1913 which means they did not effectively have a plan. the mobilization plan was beautiful. piles of documents they knew where every trade was every moment if people were getting off for a cup of tea was extraordinary but i don't blame us civilians. a lot would go on making plans when they should have

known better to look and in the final crisis can we just mobilize and then said it could not be done but i think it could have because of the railway section later that was responsible for leading the military and the troops and i tend to believe him but the kaiser did not have the nerve to stand up to the general's expertise. >> two words i think most often associated with more would be an inevitability and/or so with a factual question would it have been possible at any moment up to the actual beginning of the moment for it not to have happened? >> i think so. you can certainly see the steps when austria issues

the ultimatum to serbia germans give the blank check is the second step but it is still not inevitable even rationalization in triggering german mobilization they had done this before but went over the brink so they could have stood down but once the german went over it was too late and that was one of the great flaws which was a short name for the german plan it was seamless so you called up the soldiers to get them moving, they would move across the borders into the attack so the germans did not have built-in proper stopping points.

i think they could have at any point until august. >> do think the british really expected them at that point across bill jump? >> they think was a german started rolling they gave them the ultimatum that was very short if we don't year by 11:00 p.m. that you have stopped, and they also wanted them to promise they would not switch troops from the west to the east where it had already started rising get the point. the german said they called it the contemptible little army and said we will deal with it with one hand behind hour backs. >> the one empire whose

aftershocks are still being felt with tremors every day is the ottoman. could do explore for us a bit what led the ottomans to decide to enter the war shortly after in 1914? what was there stake? on the central power side several countries have been adversaries before, they themselves what did they hope to gain? what were the consequences with ottoman politics and a after the reverse is they were taken before the quite unravel. >> i cannot is is is completely but i think the ottomans made a calculation of the central powers were in a stronger position and they had close relations with germany with said german military mission to train in the armed forces they made a great deal over

the railway and the germans were seen if there were huge complex in the caucuses and the ottomans were very well aware for quite a while and common knowledge. and that's was a terrible blow to the ottoman empire. as the conflict broke out it was a terrible burden. but they managed to stay in the war as long as they did was amazing to me. but that goes beyond the point of all hope. in the and it brings the integration of the empire but it was a calculation calculation, perhaps a wrong calculation but initially it seemed they would be okay.

>> city university of new york. a question now the you have written this book does it make you think anything different about the conduct of the war itself if you were asked to do another edition paris 1919 would you see new things? >> would not do another edition but the two questions i find increasingly interesting. we tend to focus on the horrors of the war in the strain on european society and the people who fought in the war to support it but there were more extraordinary things how they kept going he then russia see as the weakest third held together through 1917 it is capable of the tv e. troops in the field so that is a question we have

not fully explored. of the second question why on earth could do they stop it? why in 1915 it is clear with the stalemate on the western front why was there no peace and what kept them going on and on and on when it was clear the war was consuming them all? those are subjects for interesting books but not by me maybe. [laughter] >> in 1967 fisher brought out the archives to show the kaiser had taken advantage of a small crisis and snowballed it to. he did not have access to the files of east germany at the time of having access now, do you agree germany

was the major cause of the war? >> robert? >> i don't have access to it because i wrote my book 22 years ago. and i don't have the strength to do all the work that margaret is going to do in the future to clarify all these items. germany, the war would not have happened without germany. it would have happened in some form of all other continental powers. the germans ignored the treaty in 1838 or 39 which the antecedent of the german empire signed, also austria, france and britain

and the british was the to determines of british policy were the royal navy must follow the superior to any other power or group of powers. that is all we got. term must be no continental launching pad adjacent which could be used as a stepping -- a stepping stone for the invasion by the continental army which could be larger. i think the british stuck to their rules sequentially when they saw the germans building a great navy they build there was a chill in

various british officials including churchill trying to drive down or taper off to stop building so many. why do we need these? if you stop we will stop the kaiser said nobody tells germany what to do. the british built their navy we will build hours basically. >> as far as their british incursion pretended that for two reasons for the treaty but they did not want anybody that close.

napoleon was across the channel. in this was in absentia, the kaiser. said they felt they had to fight to preserve the security of the home islands. i know if that answers your question but britain could have stayed out and perhaps would have despite its understanding not a treaty but the industry and with france if the germans had not invaded belgium. i don't know that but to the. >> but what you said that to recognize the consequences

they already sired germany defeated this young man standing. they could not have tolerated that. >> the trouble was when one side felt like something the other didn't, then you have the hideous lawsuits those of the opening battles to save this is a mistake and up the borders will remain the same we know what happens once the killing starts and the blood is shed. it is difficult. >> host: i want to ask one question. margaret, was there any peace dealers trying the war front either side? >> there were. in to also from the pope

pope, benedict. thank you very much. i am a protestant i don't follow as closely as i should. [laughter] but there is some through see -- sweden but certainly there is a growing feeling there should be peace and that countries that do have a socialist who voted to enthusiastically now pulling back. but i don't know those other pieces in. >> this is wray a parlor game question, if the plan had worked in to the germans did take paris in six weeks how would the rest of the 20th century played out? what if? >> what if? >> there is a new book that says there is not a plan at

all but i think that overstates its a bit. the best criticism of the whole notion came from a german general who said you cannot roll up a great power in carry it away in a bag and i think the french would have thought. their armies would remain largely intact and night think it is more than likely the germans would have found there were dealing with the low-grade war that the invasion and occupation of iraq had to deal with. i don't think it would settle things quickly. the russians may have held god. they had huge losses late 1914 s testily huge amount of force here the always had the great assets of williams

end capacity to retreat into the interior. is possible with the original assumption france to the peace but it would have been a very unhappy continent of europe if it had managed to persuade it probably would have taken those that would have brought it that much closer and he would've had a germany that more reactionary elements would have been strengthened. with those forces liberal forces would have been squashed in the kaiser that way talk about cracking down would have had the upper hand so i think europe would

have been dominated by the unpleasant germany that i suspect more as the years went by sooner or later the british would have had to do something because from their point of view it was a bad thing. >> indeed. >> i think margaret macmillian made a valid point extraordinarily sound very commonplace the prospect of war became as you got close 1914. looking at how ordinary the thought of war came to european statesmen and officials.

but half a generation earlier in the time of bismarck course calls very very, europeans got their heads together and stayed out of four -- war with the balance of peace at a much higher level. what happened to european statesmanship in that generation that made for so much more like the id 1914 it? >> that is a very good question. partly remember what people are remembering from what they experienced and what you had is a generation of israelis and people who remember the napoleonic wars and how those in this society but by the time

those memories have gone it is it coming at of the second world war to build the new world order, then of course, that moves and the and degeneration does not have the of this role reaction so with the passage of time made a difference. is this coincidence sometimes you get a good crop of statesmen and sometimes you don't. you have israelis, the millburn, bismarck who was the extraordinary statesman in genius who left the system behind and that is what made europe and germany so public debt -- problematic. but that was not the same willingness in depreciation

this is deeply human characteristic that we can discount or ignore it with the preconceptions with evidence mounting any future war that involve a great powers is likely to be a stalemate with neither side strong enough to overcome the other because of the growing power of defenses in the general's tended to ignore the evidence looking at the american civil war in european general said they're not proper soldiers is a civil war we can still do the attack. so there was a genuine unwillingness another phenomenon by the 1900's in germany for a so tired how they fought of the glorious

war for that fuel with light fell on the venture see you have the same thing of france and britain. the younkers to say we will vote. >> you do get the sense it is seen as a glorious conflict you have to participate? >> yes. the initial reaction there was some dismay but there was a sense we have a chance to prove ourselves that we have not up until now. >> executive editor at reuters. i have a question. you both have been talking about how there was this idea the happy little more

they had not experienced this way before and also talk about the allies the lesser allies having control and is there any comparison to be made with the neocons who helped to create a drum beat for war? >> fisa but the american answer this. [laughter] >> fet would have a lot to say about it also. >> you gophers. >> you know, my opinion i already said i am a lifelong democrat middle-of-the-road but that said that is all i will say. [laughter] >> ideas think they can

idealize this and fat even with political leaders with even george bush sr. they have a different attitude the general's because they know what it will cost or what it means and they do is think with the neocons but also you get it willis -- elsewhere in the canadian government talking about war and we should be careful to especially if you don't pay the price. >> who was the neocon at that time? >> some of the generals and statesmen obol sides. the british imperialists who talks about how we need to

fight. we should not look back. >> one footnote. kaiser's father was not like his son. he was a liberal had he not died of cancer after 90 days and faith handed this round tuzes tormented young man who needed to prove his manhood in, etc., etc., etc.. ice think given the german constitution and the power of the kaiser as a major factor, frederick could have

what? >> changed germany. he had plans to have a much more constitutional form of government was much more control and he wants to strengthen civil society it is one of the tragedies and it would have made a difference. his son and despise him and wanted to do everything in the opposite direction. >> the want to ask my friend margaret given the fact the rising power of the united states ended was visible at that time could the united states did any other outside party play a role to stop the war if they wished to do so? >> i think it was but so was

germany and what is interesting that they nearly came to war with venezuela and they back down and came to the understanding it was successful route changes in the balance could be managed i don't think the united states could have scoffs fluorite begin felt it was not its war and and had no interest. the atlantic was dividing itself. let them. they had little at stake. you could disagree but that is what they thought at the time and it was a rising power but not what it would become but was in the process do translates the growing economic power into military power and beginning to build a big navy the army was very small so the united

states did not have the will and from american public opinion they had gone crazy. and american opinion was very divided on the irish was living in the united states and of course, you had a huge german population one-quarter of all americans were german defense in this period? there was a lot of polls and checks that were divided. >> remember 1913 united states was mobilizing on this side of the land taken they have plans to raise an army of 500,000. they were distracted. >> they had to worry about the great military power to the north. [laughter] my own country.

>> woodrow wilson ran for a second term on the scene he kept us out of war. he was american entry into the war which major many quit after the dreadnoughts and deadlocked the germans never come out again. the naval staff day to the kaiser and he agreed to let them put everything they had into submarines. they started unrestricted on warfare favorite torpedo every betty who came within a very large blockade area. wilson reluctantly during the fall of 1916 after his election, trying to decide what to do it and gave the german ambassador, if you

don't stop doing this torpedoing american ships, something will happen and finally americans were drowning they continue to, etc. i, etc. and congress voted overwhelmingly for war. but the kaiser actually said to his naval staff will this precipitate the american response? the chief of naval said i promised your majesty not one single american soldier will set foot on the continent of europe. november 1914 there were 2 million in france only 600,000 were at the french and 2 million more training and they took a look and everybody was bloodied and

dying into the hundreds of thousands and they said we have to quit. >> we have time for one more quick question. >> the question for you is have we entered the age of a legal opinion with how this war began? i ask in light of the great observation of history we found in the archives is every archive now available can actually determine what the real facts are or should we always be disputing these issues? >> federal think there is much to be discovered in the archives but some things we know have been destroyed the high commander from germany destroyed the second world war some went back to moscow and pretty much released everything the serbian archives have not been fully explored but i don't thank

you would add much i think the soviet government knew what was going on. otherwise idled think there is a great undiscovered cache of documents but we will come to agreements because our viewpoint keeps changing. . .

>> i can't think of a better way to end this. [applause] i want to thank the remarkable authors available for purchase outside. robert and the latest book triet thank you.

>> we are talking of the national press club. tell us about your book on mary mcleod bethune. >> it tells about a washington resident from 1943 to 1949 and she came in the 1930's to work in the fdr administration. and she served as the director of the national youth administration and was taken by her leadership he made her the director of the actual organization as of and by the conservative vote in the house and in the senate, by 1943 they lost their funding and she was able to grow the national council for women to become an organization. >> what did we learn in the book that we probably didn't know before? >> she was not on the local figure in the sea but a global figure and in washington, d.c. in the upper city that it was,

she has the property and vermont avenue to entertain the entire world. as well as the women visiting in the various parts around the world, the british parliamentary scheme to visit and on behalf of color around the world so we learn that here. >> it sounds like the book is partially about d.c. at the time as well as about her. >> it is a snapshot of washington, d.c. as a city. one particular incident in here that i hadn't known about plano a lot of washingtonians have a problem and she was raised presbyterian but became a methodist in the 1920's and comes to washington, d.c. at the united methodist church and the hospital was known by the methodist church and they didn't allow them to have access to the

hospital. so 1945 they were denied. along with the church and other ministers they challenged them after the church to really account for the races that allowed it to go on and although the situation didn't in the favorably she made very clear to end segregation and discrimination and in 1946 bill was going to be about affordable health care so she supported that in 1942 and the affordable health care now. >> how did you go about getting a publisher for the book? >> we belonged to the studies conference that is a lovely confidence we have in washington, d.c. and this is only a 40th year and professional historians come together and talk about local history so a lot of us publish and my authors and colleagues in

the history in south carolina really to get those history stories and it encourages us to tell those stories to really bring out what the american society is about. >> do you have your eye on the next project yet clacks >> i do at mount carmel baptist prominent minister here in washington, d.c. for over 46 years and was a global figure with over one world or to trap them and sought to bring the idea and he is just an amazing figure nowhere and everywhere at the same time so they will entertain that concept. >> thank you very much for your time. >> here is a look at books being published this week. republican strategist

we are talking with care and at the national press club to get tell us a little bit about chasing d-tn. >> i worked on this book for about a year and a half and it's tied to the 50th anniversary of the supreme court decision. and my initial idea was to go

out and take the temperature across the country. 50 out of the right to counsel have played out in the last 50 years since that landmark decision. so, there was a huge crisis in the court that the public defender's work closely with. some of the public defenders are carrying as many cases as 700 at the time. so what i tried to do in the book is to write a book about this crisis in the courtroom was written for the general readers, not lawyers because one of the questions in my book was how can everybody that is involved in the court system, judges, prosecutors, public defenders, copps all recognize that the system was broken. that there was a crisis, and not do anything? so i went in with that question,

and i think the answer that i walked out with is that most people outside of the judicial system don't know about these problems. so, i was doing it for those people in justice and fairness but don't know the intricacies of the united states court decision. and i try to tell the story narrative alisa that it is interesting to people and you see what it is like to go through the courts from a client's perspective. i talked about an 18 year old who had been in a car accident in charge with the vehicular manslaughter and i talked about a 12 year old who was accused because he played with a neighborly allegedly and i took about a death penalty case and other cases like that and i try to tell the story through the

perspective of the clients and what it's like for them and how important their role is because the court system can be very overwhelming when you look at and go into any court in the country and you will see rows and rows of people sitting on benches or standing in the hallways to our meeting of the lawyers for the first time, don't know their name, they put out their hand and fill out a story and then they ask this person to go into the court and defend them and this person is struggling so many cases, can't really dedicate the time that they need to do justice to this person's case. so i wanted to tell that story and just to focus the nation's attention on that after the supreme court decision.

>> what is the core reason? is it simply a matter of not enough money or is it a matter of their not being enough interest by qualified attorneys to do this kind of work, some kind of a combination, something else? >> i think it is a combination of things. there are several systemic problems. there is a culture in the court where sometimes among the public defender's there's a sort of bravado about how much work can you do without complaining. so the culture of the court can feel that especially among the judges who have an attitude to move the case along to keep things going, keep the calendar clear, so there is that culture and then there are big financial problems in the financial business so there is often not

enough public defenders, so their case load gets too high and that is another huge problem. and then there is also the problem with the way that the public defenders are paid in many states. for example out in washington state one of the cases that i wrote about half these things called contract attorneys. and they are paid a flat fee contract for every client that is sent their way in a particular county and all of their fees are expert or investigators or any of that has to come out of their own flat fee contract so there is a disincentive sometimes to do work. so there's a lot of different pressure points in the system right now. but i think the biggest problem is that the general public

doesn't realize that and it is a hard sell to the public because all the people ever hear from the politicians are kind of lock them up and throw away the key. they are fearful of getting elected by talking about any of these issues or showing the lead of the fairness for the people that are going through the system. so i think there has to be a cultural shift in the kind of confrontation that we have publicly. >> any good news? >> there are places that are doing good jobs. the of the creme de la creme of the public defender's. they have started a national movement to limit the flow and a deal with of the issues that the defendants might be facing like

if they come into the system because they have been feeling that is related to the drug addiction or homelessness or whatever. those new programs are trying to have the public defenders often to deal with the sort of the problem to look at the root of the problem and feel deviate could deal more broadly with those that come through the system so there is good news out there. thank you for your time. >> examines franklin roosevelt life of polio that was contracted in 1921 at the age of 39. if a 45 minute program from the public library in louisville kentucky is next on book tv. >> thank you. very grateful to be at this beautiful library.

thank you all for coming out on this evening. i do hope that we will have a conversation to think about questions you might want to ask and i will try to keep my prepared remarks short and then let's talk about fdr. a funny thing has happened to the public image of franklin roosevelt since i was a kid. when i was six or 7-years-old, the very distinct memory of my grandmother telling me a story, she was a schoolteacher she taught school for many years through the 30's, 40's and 50's, dedicated new deal democrat. and she said i want to tell you about a great man who had polio as an adult. and i knew because i had the vaccine. i knew what was about and