>> often been told they don't know that i'm muslim and so i am told that it is a double whammy that way and originally my father left in 1948 and he came to the states as a 16-year-old in the 1950s and landed in chicago and ended up majoring in math and engineering and graduated from the university of illinois and champagne. ..

introduced by mutual friends. yet what >> host: and obviously you went to school here. of what was that like, your journey at the palestinian living in america, was that like? >> guest: my father had bought a small home in virginia and so i grew lob watching i love lucy and i dream that machine so i was quite familiar with the american experience in terms of the cultural aspect.

when i finally ended up at georgetown university, i fell in love with the american dream and our founding fathers because of someone who has a palestinian i never did enjoy. we were very much at the whim of working permits and visas so i took to heart the value of the american dream and protection it affords its most recent immigrants. >> host: you must have fallen in love with your husband because you married him. >> guest: we first met at the of washington harvard. >> host: you were not a range to be married? >> guest: no one in my family has been arranged. it's not a tradition. in fact none of the women - identified have never worn a head scarf.

my grandmother wore a the thing suit and swam in the leak we back then so we come from a long line of progressive muslim women. >> host: i'm trying to do an examination of your life to see how you came to this country going to school, falling in love, having beautiful children living in manhattan and then all of a sudden you are writing books. what is the inspiration what happened? >> guest: my interests sore left fill in that field, but before 9/11 i would call that accidental muslims because i think many of us all our perhaps of a certain religion as an accident of birth and i think what 9/11 did -- and i'm not alone, i think it did that too

many muslim americans -- it forces you to grapple with what it means to be on trial and the talking pond and on washington, d.c. experts and you were told that you can be a woman and a muslim and liberated from the violence and theology of islam so there was a lot coming at me and as a mother of a toddler and when my daughter was starting kindergarten on the very much worried about the future of my children has muslim and i thought if it is just a label or something that we are as a family because of sort of ancestral loyalty, then why put them through that challenge? and that is the beginning of this journey. >> guest:

>> host: so that terrorists blew up to beautiful buildings in our state, our city, our country. what is the impact on someone like you live in a comfortable life in manhattan? what impact does that have on you and what do you think of those people? >> guest: the audience that is listening that barely gets to hear from people like you would you tell them what you think of these terrorists and how they have affected your life? >> guest: first and foremost, it affected the life of the people they took away. from my perspective, my own personal perspective coming at this from the pain of those lost in the terror that day is compounded by another challenge which is by virtue of calling ourselves muslim we were guilty

by association and so that was part wrenchingly difficult and as a mother even more so as you grapple with trying to make sense to two innocent children. my daughter riss just beginning in kindergarten, and i remember sadly that her first day at school was the morning of 9/11, the first official day of kindergarten. and i write about this and the book. i had a special kind of protect my daughter thinks on her backpack. as i watched the images and the horror of that laid, the

buildings going up and thinking that what i put so lovingly in my daughter's backpack was used to read to the heat and -- the hate. the journey for me has been of learning how and of owning my religion and understanding of the issues and in power in my children. we can teach our children as muslim americans to associate, disengaged. and i am told this is also in the experience when you have stereotypes' out there and you are trying to develop your identity, you can say well you know i'm not quite muslim or i'm not --

>> host: >> guest: there are a lot of people shying away from celebrating more in the office for people are closing in. that is a difficult reaction and i do not know that i've made the right choice, but i do feel like by teaching my children along on this journey and insisting that -- ultimately it is their choice, but what i do we feel is i take them along as we learn to get there. and slowly, they have chosen to sell to identify as muslims, and i think that by doing that, i hope that they can both hold america accountable to its higher ideals as they can hold islami accountable to their

ideals and that they become living embodiments of what it means to become muslims and agents of change for a better world. >> host: i find it extremely profound that you've chosen to do this with your life because there are different kinds of people that actually take it upon themselves to create a change and you have not only written a prayer book which was very popular all over the united states. i remember every time i lecture there is someone that comes out -- that was one book that you wrote about three women coming together to explore of their faith and now you've written this new book which is more like muslim sultan examining and i love the title of the book, because baseball and apple pie. i thought what is she trying to say?

>> guest: some people have an issue with the title because they felt that somehow burquas would compound the issue. the truth of the matter his in the book i speak about all of those elements and this book is a metaphor for what people may associate with islam. it's an issue that i deal with and my journey started we back and came to be such a gift and a blessing to me because it took me all over the country from the mountains to jacksonville florida, and i fell in love with america all over again in america became virtually a fifth club to me.

people are so eager to learn. most people do not have the opportunity to meet a muslim in person. the only have the headline news to go by, and they don't have that neighbor that is a muslim. so it was just such a gift. and but number two is definitely a journey in which i have taken the mirror and held it up and i've taken it on issues that will be challenging for white children as they mature and was self identifying muslim americans. i didn't want the issue to be just one sport islam and the tradition that is part number one but rather this is part number two which is a continuation of the journey that i started. >> host: as i was reading it i solid into ways as trying to

take back is long and also of the united states because there are some profound things that happened in this book that you talk about, certain experiences that have crippled deutsch to take action and we will talk about a little bit later on we will go into detail, but there's something that you mentioned in the book you suffered. explain that to me. i'm curious what you mean by that. >> guest: at that time and in that statement of course i had priscilla and suzanne in times of pain and distress they had a place to worship and have their

children be introduced and there were fundamentals of the religion and they said the recall the days and come together as a community to affirm their identity as part of a community. it's just to understand my envy of you have to understand we are definitely secular muslims or progress of muslims, so the place of worship that we didn't stick out but we are first and foremost american. >> host: did you on the institution that values the faith but also has a cultural expression.

>> guest: yes it is a place where for the a club med let's go to that specific thing that you mentioned, which i found to be really moving. you talk about the expense of the center downtown, which you know i was involved with so for the full disclosure to the audience you were asked to come to the committee's meeting and then describe the feeling you left that day and hear you were an integrated american standing out there knowing that your children needed a home and you're coming to speak about it. describe what you described in the bucket. i would love for you to tell the audience listening right now what was that feeling like what?

and who >> guest: it was a vilification to be on the receiving end was that type of emotion that was never a pleasant experience. what was going through my head was my goodness we are not dealing community to have experienced these feelings of stereotype certification and other minorities have had that and i really felt i couldn't help but take it personally. it's a scary feeling and i am assimilative. there is no reason i would be

identified on the street that experienced something intense i hadn't before. >> host: you said you felt like your children more tormented the inferno of islamophobia with people heckling and saying things like dell, both home. for your children it's -- >> guest: if we could stop and consider their kph annual debt home being exposed to that that has never known a home outside of new york city or america who doesn't carry a passport or doesn't have a home to go to other than here and then when you have the signs saying

muslims go back or muslims are terrorists, then i think that answers itself. as a mother, one can only be very concerned, and my first reaction is to protect my children, and then the second is to empower them. asked the same time, i am very wary of making them feel like victims. and that is the promise of america that we are protected by the ideals and the constitution. and it's our journey to take that has been in well paved by the other traditions before us. >> host: cingular getting up one day having a cup of coffee in your hand and you have this alert, dennis e. your son who has now intervened. tell us that story. >> guest: at the time it was

the height of the controversy of the downtown mosque. the first thing i do this check my e-mail and there was a result for why i hate muslims. you can imagine the people sites that were there. then i turned to reprimand my son upset with what i think maybe sort of an introduction to language that he shouldn't be exposed to being as young as he was at the time, and as if to sort of real-life year he said mommy, mommy, but i wrote something. he wrote something rather impressive for a young man his age, a young boy his age really. i don't remember his exact words but they were to the effect of we shouldn't blame the muslims,

just as we don't blame hitler for the holocaust. >> host: succumb i mean in some ways i think that perhaps maybe you wrote this book for your children. >> guest: i did. they are like most teenagers. but i do feel like this is something i'll leave behind for them. >> host: there is a story about your daughter, not only your son, but your daughter got involved in this and she was a very young girl and you talk about her project called it's okay. tell us a little bit about that assignment and laid-back when she was just an first grade. >> guest: it was the moment of

awareness that even if i chose to ignore this, it wouldn't just a knorr class that's because she goes to a wonderful school that at the time she was only one of 40 girls that identified as muslim. the project was it's okay. it could be it's okay to be afraid of the dark or it's okay to bite your nails. and in her case, she was only seven or eight at the time if not young turk and she said it's okay to be muslim when everyone around you is jewish and christian. >> host: were you surprised she chose that? your children know what a internalize everything going on. >> guest: and i think that that's the biggest challenge is for american muslims to find their place, to find their voice to assimilate and healthy and

cohesive and empowering energized way and to be positive contributors to the community. that's a little bit more challenging than a flimsy states. perhaps the people that were behind their rhetoric didn't realize the and pack on children. although they are thinking they've proposing something that they all realize how with internalizes. it may not be out word of bullying -- >> host: it is sometimes sharper as we know. >> guest: from my experience, those fears are real. i understand why many americans would be a trade war would year of the idea that islam if one were to understand, then i

suppose he would be afraid. but the truth of the matter -- and this is what is incumbent as muslim americans to communicate is those are not the value of islam. they are not what it was ever meant to be. so i think that this year is an equal opportunity actor. israel to those that vilify but i don't think the reaction should be. i think it is much more american for us to learn and to seek truth and i think it is our duty as american muslims to be there to provide that truth. >> host: i agree with you it is important to remove the ignorance because it is the greatest danger. now that you have written this book, what advice do you get to other parents? i'm sure they will get lots of ideas from your book but what

advice did you get letters and i would like you to advise the parents of children who are also minorities in their own faith, they don't have the majority religion where they are part of that, they are not even that part of the tradition that this is something i'm sensitive to because oftentimes people say we are not even part of the tradition, so we feel left out. what advice do you have for all of these religions are sort that are arriving in america and are here and what should they do with their children? for >> guest: i will speak for my experience. i think that it's very important to not feel, again, as if we are victims because we are truly blessed in this great country because we escaped the

discrimination of the war and conflict or we want to be part of the american dream and opportunity and that's america's promise. the most recent patriots taken to heart, and it's a promise that means a lot and is very dear to our family. so those words are not rapid. they are values that we live by every day. freedom of expression and the freedom to worship. we rely on them as american muslims for that dignity and opportunity to assimilate for the equality and respect interlock. and that is first and foremost what i teach my trend is that this country has been dulled and continues to be built on those ideals. and equally so, whether one is from the muslim background, those ideas come of this energy

is there. no religion is built on hate. it cannot survive. god's truth is absolute with the nuances of the different traditions. whether we approach god through the rituals or christianity or islam, it's not the point. they are not values and of themselves. morality is bigger and larger than our various traditions and the diversity in the tradition. it's from all on that path to true, that absolute truth that says that we are all equal, that diversity must exist and that killing, violence, injustice is

absolutely unacceptable wear for the tradition comes from. >> host: so engage with the pluralism and you will commit to that pluralism. it is a part of the plan. and here in america we have opened our shores and allowed the immigrants to come and nourish it. so allow everyone to be who they are in their uniqueness. >> guest: it is america's blessing and a gift to mankind that i think it has figured out a system where these guarantees are the most recent and oldest immigrants.

i think the challenge in other parts of the world in the majority muslim countries do not have those and often - likely to rescue god from the humanity, from the abuse of the political power in the muslim countries for gently in america we are lost because we don't have to worry about that and god is rescued and we can thrived. the beauty of the diversity on this journey everyday driving towards the duty of god. >> host: let's go a little deeper into this diversity issue islam is diverse because manhattan is home to this entire diversity.

every ethnicity and nationality, every school of thought that i know of. so i called this the mecca. year round we have muslims from every conceivable part of the world and all of their shapes and colors. so what do you feel when people tell you -- because in the document chair that you are not muslim enough for you don't fit that prototype of a muslim, and i actually started that question because you look like such an american. does it irritate you when muslims tell you you are not muslim enough or you don't fit that image -- the people we fight against which is that not all muslims are alike we tend to impose on our own community.

>> guest: wife but like to start planning now to the orthodoxy isn't necessarily just particular to es salaam. it exists in all traditions where if you will see orthodox shifts over and is used to measure one has a sort of your distich of increased religionocity xm that's so that is the future of many of the traditions but if you look at the muslim experience in the muslim tradition it's not accidentally so i think it is intended by the tradition to qualify you have to look a certain way or wear a scarf a certain way or follow the rules that there is not an acceptance of the diversity from within.

if i were to identify the singular most important challenge to overcome, it would be that notion that diversity is just as available. the choice of the matter is the reason we are here today is because of this inclination which i read somewhere it's not only a historical but it's antihistorical because it's the ninth centuries of the islamic theology and tradition and plurality. hundreds of years of diversity and the limited short period of time our journey has to be about refusing been told by the clerks who speak for us that islam and

its ideals of a second century reality. we are americans and muslims who need an es salaam of the 21st century. so -- >> host: i've heard many people in the jewish community say they are not practicing jews but they are cultural and they identify with their jewish identity in a very strong way. are you also then suggesting that there are muslims who may not be necessarily difficult or practicing? they might only practice one killer like charity not necessarily fasting for an entire month but sort of a doubling in certain filler's but not 100% them?

>> guest: there is a statistic that i mentioned in the book. they do not adhere to the exact rituals and the demand of religion. it is the reality of the fact on the ground and we don't go around questioning christians or jews for that matter. if they choose to self identify, soviet. it's between them and god and so much for in the case of muslims where we don't have an official religious hierarchy so it is based on the idea between you and god. i take a lot of solis and

religion. sometimes i do most of my riding at five in the morning and i like to think that whole idea happens before sunrise. week up and try and work basically. if i don't get up to necessarily engage in prayer i still get up and engage in some sort of work and if it isn't my work as a writer media is my work in preparation even maintaining a healthy body and going out to the park and running, or may be preparing a meal for my children. i know that so many mothers do that. so if they live in action and practiced in life but that is my trees and i respect other

people's choice that he who believes in god, human beings that believe in god have good deeds and nothing to fear, so salvation is really in be leaving the connection that you have and also doing good deeds. it's really your way to secure that place which will be as we call the paradise. but you talk about your confrontation about an event that you mentioned in the counter where she interpreted her definition of modesty different than yours and. >> guest: i think we were in virginia at the time and i was

expanding on the idea that there is no one meaning. sometimes they are taken off as statements of opposition and sometimes it can be in a conservative society that won't allow you to interpret or study because it enables you to take that path of empowerment. sometimes it can just be a very sort of akin to the experience where you are seeking salvation or you have a sort of experience in your life that you are seeking solace so there are many interpretations to avail and what got to her and it isn't mentioned, she very much took issue with that and said how can

you call yourself a muslim, the five pillars of islam is with the house is built on the and if you do not engage in them than you are a week muslim. that is the duty of being in america. there is a freedom of choice, but i feel that my journey has been about feeling that there is room for me as a muslim and as long and the progressive voices out there who are and academics are writing about that and that the diversity is a natural development. >> host: of course there is no such thing as -- and muslim as one that submits to the will of

god. and then how we practice and how we are judged is not up to the human being and someone the judge you on that basis. a lot of people have been saying that there are no muslims anywhere. we hear from that continuous refrain. do you consider yourself to be a modern muslim, and if you do, how do you define that? >> guest: i am glad that you asked that question. when i was on the road it was the most asked question. it was always so where are the moderates? and at the time was almost sort of rolling my eyes were the 1.6 billion of us we are your teachers and doctors and nurses everywhere and just because your

mother gets up in the morning and prepares breakfast for her children doesn't make headline news comment so i worried that somehow within the question some hell i was an exception and atypical muslim. and then after but number two, when i got home and there were no more speaking engagements, i got home one day and i had the radio on and that the time, there was a report of a girl being stoned to death and she went in to report her rape and they proceeded to scone her to death. i broke down in tears and suddenly felt that i had

developed a new set of years and i heard it in a very different way, meaning that as a muslim, i needed more than just justifying that activist, which is an aberration and specific to the conditions in somalia. i needed more than that. i needed those absolute positions in these awful practices to the time and age who has the work cut out for us as muslims, and we do need to demand those. no one believes there should be stoning war amputations in today's world, and the irony and the thing that confuses me and i do not understand, i do not understand why some have chosen

to make that because starting wasn't it alleged by muslims, it was just as much a jewish tradition, and so we need to articulate and very clearly defensive positions. >> host: you have taken it upon yourself to educate the public and to help the indication that muslim women or in the front lines to get a recently we have seen the women in the square and all over the middle east very much a part of the pro-democracy freedom movement into challenging the status quo. it's frustrating when you know they have these rights 1400 years ago and yet there has been

so much regression and all of their god-given rights have been taken away from them. if you have a lot of resources in the world, what to do to change that? you have already done a lot. >> guest: i think that first and foremost, there is the education and enlightenment. it's where we are as muslims. it is often translated as no clear understanding. of course for me it is a better translation because in arabic it is to read and to think and not to blindly follow and to take the profits life and to put it in the context to understand he

must first and foremost a feminist maverick progressive who chose him boss and reminds us all the time that she proposed to him in marriage. hell revolutionary is that the? and then we have other women he married. i think it is the first muslim lawyer and i think has contributed the most to the profit saying and so she and her time was consulted over matters of legal issues in the community and was also a military leader. so it is bizarre to me that they

are banned from driving, for instance, when we had these incredible role models within our own traditions, it is definitely going to go back to the education. it's interesting that you say it was feminist because i remember meeting gloria one time and she said she was a feminist and we said yes, we know that and he was surrounded by women and gave women and regard it won an if someone walked into the room he would put his cloak down so she could sit any queens case can get his respectful of women, so education as the key in creating awareness of and around the world. there's a lot of confusion in america. and i know you've spent some time in your book talking about what it really means.

can you explain to the american audience what it is versus the proponents of islamophobia have been saying? >> guest: first i'm not an expert. but from my perspective, one of -- one of the beautiful revelations that happened while i was doing research for the book is i found that it means that half. that's the path to salvation if you imagine that it came down in the desert where water was an invaluable resource, it was the difference between life and death. so that half is to resolve asian. and it isn't something that is static. it's very much alive and in fact

all traditions have to be current and on a journey where otherwise they become archaic and irrelevant. and unfortunately that is my fear. it's been more orthodox and continues to speak on its behalf so it is the equivalent, and certainly we all know that there is no religion and thankfully so, something that we very much appreciate and honor and value. so it is frankly irrelevant on a daily basis. so the fact that it was used as

a fear mongering scary word -- that is definitely something that is confusing not just to americans and the muslims, but there are many questions on my part because i did my research. there was a whole segment and they just went around manhattan and he saw all of these street vendors that sell and he said dennett chris people who are preying on manhattan and all of the places of worship. the truth is that when we practice our religion who freely and when we can believe in what we want to believe in, in that

respect sharia is very much a part of the american ethos. now, you see something in your book about your son. we belong to the fifa traditions and believe in god is the central as a part of our creed. but in your book you talk about if your son decided to not be a muslim anymore and that that would be okay with you. that is not a context of my -- it could be. i don't think that there's no such thing as being forced to stay in the tradition. the plurality is about twice.

if you take away the choice, then there is no such thing as the morality. god can see in our hearts and minds and it's irrational, so yes it is the essence of rell the virtue, so you are basically busting that myth that the islamophobia run around saying that he becomes an apostate and sort of there for his life is at risk, to me it is ultimately if i could expand on it a little bit there is one god and he's critical of the religions, and there should be no competition. is that how you see it?

>> guest: one of the reasons i commit to muslim is it is a modern sensibility, and it has a diverse ethos built into the ideology. as a muslim i am required to believe in the 25 of their profits and in the virgin birth of mary and the profit according to the tradition doesn't have a unique or special position of the would-be revered equally. five times a day in prayer we are supposed to pray for blessings for the family that being of course of moses and jesus was.

that is very much where i find my home in the faith tradition. it has a sense of instability in the idea that there are many cuffs and absolute truth. >> host: what have we often done wrong where the religion is so tolerant and increasing, what have we done wrong not being able to convey that very powerful message that we embedded in our theology what have we done wrong? >> guest: we have been living in the dark ages in terms of our civilization. we are the mercy of the intolerant dependencies in the political system and in the faith tradition they have taken the upper hand. sometimes combat in some parts

of the world they don't recognize their own religion. to me that is a hypothetical question in. it is sad. so i can kiss it is just a whole -- we need to go back to the text and reconnect with the civilization within the civilization not only in the west but in our own theology and the diversity of the theology. >> host: what does it feel like a as a muslim and their own theology to those roadside bombings and killings and -- >> guest: i'm going to be blunt. it's a disgusting. it's shameful.

i take it personally. we try to bring it into our home and not distance ourselves from a. >> host: does it get stronger you have to do something about it? >> guest: yes because it is coming from a place of concern and frustration and enough is enough a whiff of this ignorance and so yes, it is passionate and very real and year and close to my heart as a woman and a mother and american.

it reminds me that they were not considered a full citizen although the country said in the eyes of god or in the constitution and they were considered inferior by their faith. if god created everyone in his image, then why is man treating the black man and woman inferior? so, in some ways we are falling in the footsteps of the suffragette. and i am a proud and character of the movement, and i know that you are also going along that same legacy. >> guest: there are many women and men that have spoken against

these issues but they've been identified as agnostics or antimuslims, and i come to it from a place of love and respect and that is what the difference is. it's that i have a deep love for islam and respect, and at the same time, much frustration and much passion for the need to get it back together >> host: cingular rheedlen against the muslims that have taken islam. >> guest: we have failed. >> host: is their anything you would like to tell the audience that i have not asked you? >> guest: the last sentence would be pretty much close to it

is just a place of the deep fundamental respect and values that i hold dear which is respect for american values and islam values, and we see no contradiction between the two and that unlike my friends we write about in the book that told me you are not an american because of the time she said to me your people are the force of all violence in the world come and at that time i thought you know i am an american and he said no, you are not. i would like to add one other sort of pet peeve that the idea of islam is by definition the question is a violent religion. i take issue with that question

because is one that on both sides do not answer well and it is a very divisive question and by definition and puts them under the senses. it is a few whole approach and it's only as peaceful or violent as the hands it finds itself in. if you look at any of the traditions they have their moment of peace and they will have their moment of violence. and islam is not to either. so, i think that that is another point. >> host: i want to thank you very much. so these and gentlemen, burquas, baseball and apple pie. you were trying to educate yourself in the real world. i highly recommend it. you can read it over the weekend. and thank you very much for joining us today.

>> guest: thank you. >> that was "after words," book tv signature program and which authors of the latest nonfiction books are interviewed by journalists, public policy makers, legislators and others familiar with the material. "after words" there is every weekend on book tv at 10 p.m. on saturday, 12 p.m. and 9 p.m. on sunday and 12 a.m. on monday. you can also watch "after words" on line. go to booktv.org and click on "after words" and the book tv series and topics list on the upper right side of the page. here's a look at some books being published this week.

nancy reagan was the first lady to address the united nations and first to address the nation in the joint appearance with the president. >> to my friends out there, life can be great but not when you can't see it. so when your eyes to life to see a in the vivid colors that god gave the precious gift to his children to enjoy life to the full list and to make it count. say yes to your life and when it comes to drugs and alcohol, just say no. >> first lady nancy reagan as the original series influence and image returns tonight, live at nine eastern on c-span and c-span's treen also c-span radio and if c-span.org.

.. >> i teetwo right to with na