look at the beautiful and forgotten israel the one that when he talked about it his eyes glowed, the village was born in and the battle from whom he returned with understanding that you do not leave the wounded. .. ..

>> translator: the love story of this man to this country and who knew each fast and the smell of the plant of every plant and the changing of the or colors in the fields in the spring and fall, i would like to tell you a few personal orders, and today i will call you in your first name. your living as of eight years ago was so unplanned that we did not have the time to say good-bye to you. we did not say hello and good-bye. i didn't even have the time to wish you a speedy recovery in

the medical procedure and we couldn't tell you how much we loved you. all your team in the minister prime minister's office we loved you. but you knew that we loved you. you always told us in a smile it's not a bad place to be at. and what i know that you meant is not that you were at the head of the pyramid but in the place that you felt so beloved. i wanted you to know that like -- [inaudible] were beside you, we the people in your office recruited were recruited to help you in the funeral arrangements. we all came in the place of love and appreciation toward you. each one of you is contributing to make sure that no one will be

forgotten, that everyone who wants to say good-bye will be able to come and say good-bye. you are not here to conduct the conducted, but we're trying to do our work faithfully. soon you will return to the place you loved more than anything, your ranch. whenever you left it you wanted to get updates like in a military battle how many cattle in the herd, how much rain is falling. you would sit in the government -- prime minister office, but you always thought about the land of your ranch. you were a man of the land. that was your first love. this is where you will return

today next to your beloved wife, lily, among green fields. i would like to thank you for the privilege to work beside you and to know you as a person in the most positive form. i love you very much, and i know that i will always miss you. rest, may you rest in peace. [speaking in native tongue] >> translator: who fought with ariel sharon, who fault finish finish -- who fought with him in the commanders 101 to deliver his eulogy.

spiewtion spiewtiontology -- [speaking in native tongue] >> translator: my friends, members of sharon family, your honorary president, prime minister and honored guests who came to honor the memory of eric and to give us all, to strengthen our, the feeling of what we had and what we lost. [speaking in native tongue] >> translator: my friends and honored guests, my commander, my teacher and my close friend, i could have spoken for an hour and it would not have been sufficient to say what i had to

say. for eight years we were partners to the belief that he will return to us. we his friends, his soldiers from unit 101 and the parachuters of the -- [inaudible] who are part of the unbelievable group that he formed and what he made in the 1950 53, what eric did, we knew that anything and everything could happen with him. and this is the main strength stemmed from his love of the country, how he felt to the country, toward the country and what the country gave him. because it was a mutual relationship. he took us, a group of

youngsters about 19 years old or so, and succeeded in giving us the feeling that all of the security of the people of israel and the nation of israel is laying on our young shoulders. and he succeeded greatly and and he did it quietly and without great speeches. he influenced us greatly and gave us the feeling and taught us how in readiness and bravery and faith we can achieve everything. eric was a man with a vision. when he was a major, he was actually already a general.

he was a giant. with leadership. he was so professional and so wise and so -- in his daily life and also in the battle. eric i owe him something personally. eric, he was involved in my evacuation when i was gravely wounded in 1955. he was -- did not stay still until he verified that they evacuated me and i owe him my life. be not for -- if not for what he did then, i wouldn't have been in front of you today. a great privilege it was for us to be his soldiers and to be

partners to the nation that he took upon himself to revolutionize the idf from an army that lost its motivation and its readiness and the ability and through a group of 35 fighters to do it. to erase the word it's impossible from our lexicon and to enter in its place we do not come back without winning. this is how it was and this is what we did. with your permission, i will read a few lines from a personal letter he wrote to me. that period that we started determined a new warring

concept. the memories of our youth, our dreams pain and the fears that we shared from with all of our friends from the beginning of 101 unit will accompany us throughout our lives. the encouragement, the willingness to sacrifice and above all, the friends, the wonderful friendship among the people. those that created the common destiny that accompanies us until today. eric was also a friend from the beginning. and although he was a major -- the friendship that was formed immediately was much more the

symbol from the units we came from. that gathered us. and in this friendship and in this treatment he succeeded to do what he did. this friendship between us was such that i would come to his office i would meet him in the ranch, and we also had something in common because we were both farmers. but one time i wanted to tell you i received a phone call on the eve of the holiday. it is eve of the holiday, you would not believe where i am, i'm on the beach in aqaba. a few minutes ago i left a meeting with king abdullah.

i'm looking at -- [inaudible] and i remembered what you did in aqaba when you did then, and i decided to call you. such surprises he would make from time to time not only to me, this is what eric was like. he had also humor, and anyone who knew him knew his humor. this humor accompanied us then 60 years ago when we were young and we were full of energy to execute and implement. and what he designated for us and what we believed we had to do with that maybe a small story. about ten years ago we had a reunion of 50 years of the unit 101.

he came, of course. i was one of the organizers and i said in ten years we will have another reunion, and indeed, four months ago we had another reunion for the establishment of this unit. and eric said if katya says you do, you will do. but i'm asking you not to forget to invite me and not to do it on a day that there is a government meeting. and, indeed, when we did the 60th reunion he wasn't with us. physically. but, actually, his image and spirit was among us. they were at whole event. and last thing i would like to emphasize and was mentioned here, his love for agriculture.

he was a farmer in his heart and so in agriculture a special value. i experienced it especially when i was involved with -- [inaudible] in establishing the herd of cattle in his ranch. and then he told me if we have agriculture here, we have our nation and land here. if we have land here and agriculture, we have land here. may his spirit face and life will be the pillars of the state of israel. on behalf of my friend eric i salute you.

[speaking in native tongue] >> translator: the last to eulogize is -- [inaudible] please. [speaking in native tongue] >> translator: to teach the children of -- [inaudible] this is how david eulogized king solomon. i will -- ariel taught me how to fight and later how to settle. one hand did work and the other hand had like the prophet --

[inaudible] about the construction of jerusalem. many people talked about you, your days and day of battle. i did with you in the days of settlement, you were the practical leader of the settlement and also the father of this settlement movement. in the construction and the settlement like in the army, you went to the smallest details in your humor and special charm. you knew how to to tell us not to let our hands down. you completed your mission but you knew how to give us the freedom in the execution. you repeated and said that you knew better than us -- than me

how to do it. you had the ability to cultivate in people their leadership qualities. this is how you acted in the settlement movement. in every meeting there were many memories of your youth came up during the war for independence and your childhood in milan. the memories of childhood came about in every step of your action. when you made a vision of a new project for you everything had to be done big. because what we talked about was a project forever. the love of israel spoke to you in a poem.

the jewish identity, the bringing of the jews to israel and concern about conversion of those who needed to be converted. eric, you believed greatly in the rights and abilities of the jewish people. you always said these people will always succeed. i love you very much and it was a great privilege more me to work in your midst as the hero of israel. this love developed into friendship that developed between our families. on this background was difficult and painful the disengagement of -- that you brought about. sorrow is great, and everything

will be covered with great love. and now in your last voyage, we will insure you eric, we will make every effort to overcome all the difficulties. we will not stop. [speaking in native tongue] or. >> translator: thanks to all the eulogizers. we will stand up for the prior by cantor shai abramson. ♪ ♪

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>> federal regulators say new mortgage lending rules will safeguard or consumers against risky loans. a house financial services subcommittee will look at these new qualified mortgage rules which include an ability to repay provision. banking officials will testify this morning. live coverage begins at 10 a.m. eastern on c-span3. later in the day also on c-span3, members of a principle review -- presidential review of the u.s. intelligence agencies will testify about possible changes to surveillance programs. live coverage from the senate judiciary committee starts at 2:30 eastern. next washington post columnist david ignatius and journalist robin wright talk about politics in iran.

a weekend deal was reached on a six month interim agreement. hosted by the u.s. institute of peace and the woodrow wilson center, this is 90 minutes. >> we're very pleased to have two people who have written books about iran do we have -- there was going to be covers of two books that are represented by the authors right here and they have also just returned from iran. so what we thought would be very useful and interesting for you and for us is to get a picture a sense of what's going on inside. for all the reasons that we all know, this is the time to try to understand what's going on there. maybe there are changes there. and that is what i hope we will get from this discussion. without anything further robin is going to say a couple -- make some observations about her trip, david's going to make some observations about his trip. we will have a conversation open to you very quickly, and i'll

look forward to your questions. so this will be an interactive easy discussion. so robin? >> thanks, bill, very much. four headlines as an old journalist, four things that i think are particularly interesting. one is the fact that david and i were allowed to go at all. i went to see a grand ayatollah, one of only 12 in the world and i said what's changed? and he said, the fact that you're here. this was the first interview he'd been allowed to give in five years and he's a grand ayatollah, and that was quite striking. when i went to see a former deputy speaker of parliament whose brother was president of iran, and i said to him, you know what's new, and he said well, i'm less afraid than i was before the election. and this is a man who was very much a part of the system. so you could, you know, we all know about the bad old days of president ahmadinejad, but it was very interesting hearing it from the inside people who were, you know, powerful

players. i think what's really interesting politically about what's happening in iran today is that there's a new category on the political spectrum. we've gone through the era of the hard liners with president ahmadinejad. we went through the reformers with president khatami and what we're seeing is a new i category today of what i call the realists who are not out to like the green movement was, to transform iran to challenge the powers of the supreme leader. they're willing to work within the system but they do want to open up political space. and a lot of it in a lot of different ways. it was very interesting that president rouhani last night met with an array of artists, film directors, actresses actors and so forth be and said that art without freedom was meaningless. so, you know, the tenor has changed, but we're looking at people who are realistic in terms of what the various or

goals are. secondly, i think in terms of our interests what's really important to understand is that iran is going through what i call a strategic recalculation or recalibration. and, again this does not mean some kind of overhaul, but it does mean that they are responding in realtime to what is going on in the region. a decade ago when the u.s. intervened in iraq and got rid of saddam hussein in afghanistan got rid of the taliban, king abdullah of jordan started worrying about the shiite crescent, that arc radiating through tehran, from baghdad into damascus and then into lebanon and the rise of the shiites. and iran was, you know, sitting pretty as the kind of strategic winner. what's interesting today is that with the rise of the al-qaeda franchises, with the u.s. having

withdrawn from iraq having about to withdraw from afghanistan, that iran suddenly finds itself encircled by salafis, by al-qaeda militants, encircled by the sunnis. and this has led to an awareness of um, well, you know the u.s. might not be such an adversary after all. and that when we look at why iran is at the negotiating table, we often tend to focus primarily on the pressure of economic sanctions when, in fact, there are a lot of much bigger issues that we ignore. and that's one of them this strategic recalculation. another reason is the psychology of war. the guess beliest -- grisliest

middle eastern conflict played out in iraq, and one of the most striking things to me was going to a couple of hospitals in tehran and seeing victims dying of chemical weapons. thirty years after they came under attack iran now estimates it has close to 70,000 people who have been -- who are still survivors of chemical weapons and need chronic medical help and that will eventually die. the numbers could end up rivaling the death toll in world war i from mustard gas. and when i talk to people about the nuclear deal or president rouhani, you know, what kind of -- what they were, what the mood in tehran was, the first thing so many people told me was we know we can wake up tomorrow morning and not worry about a bomb falling on tehran, that there really is this deep fear

of what a military action might entail, how long it might go on, what it might cost again. so those are my kind of initial thoughts. i will conclude with one final thing. i think president rouhani is arguably today more popular hand the day after he was elected -- popular today than he was the day after he was elected. he's taken many smart moves, and he also appointed a lot of really experienced technocrats to try to bail them out of the huge economic mess created by president ahmadinejad. or the minister of finance the head of the central bank or all people who are very smart. the budget that was introduced deals with the huge problems of, you know inflation, the fact that one in four of the young are unemployed. it's trying to take make some hard choices that will need to

be taken if iran's going to get control over what has been a plummeting economy. >> robin, thank you. strategic recalculation or recalibration. shiite yes yes, sir sent, now sunni -- crescent, now sunni encirclement. we want to come back to these. a pretty positive, upbeat description, i would say. hang on we'll come back to this. [laughter] david, your view. you were there approximately the same time, and i would love to hear your -- >> well, first, thanks to bill and robin and jim marshall and jane harman. it's really nice to be asked to speak about a subject that really matters. a lot of times in washington we speak about things that sort of matter. these negotiations and their consequences for our country are really important. and i think sessions like this where we try to think through what robin and i have just seen

and share it with you and get your feedback are important. i should just note as a panelist that it's a great pleasure for me to see my mom and dad in the audience. [laughter] [applause] i have to be especially careful not to, you know, give the sort of bland journalistic -- because i'm going to hear about it later. and let me start just with a caveat. i wish i knew more about iran. i was there on this trip for four days. so everybody needs to understand that, you know, i am giving you casual impressions from a very quick trip, you know? we need to know so much more about this country. you do feel the product of 34 years of being cut off in the lack of deep expertise. i hope i'll go back i hope robin will go back will go back

often. here are just a couple of brief starting points in terms of my own sense of the country and the people when i was there. first, there is the appearance of a real debate. i want to say division among senior members of the leadership. at least as seen in my interviews. i interviewed at length and in real detail i published a full transcript if you want to go look at it, the foreign minister who's the leading realist this robin's terms -- in robin's terms, the leading western-looking face of the regime. and he went pretty systematically through the negotiating issues, and sometimes i wasn't sure just you know where the space to make a deal was. but zarif kept asserting that a deal can be made, and we'll take care of this, don't worry. so he was obviously, believing -- as he spoke to

me -- that he spoke more president rouhani and beyond him, for the supreme leader. i also saw, as robin did probably the most visible hardliner associated with the regime who is the editor appointed by the supreme leader khamenei of cay hand which is the very conservative newspaper. i've met him on a previous visit to iran. he's very articulate, very outspoken. and when asked do you think compromise with the west on these nuclear issues as advocated aggressively by zarif and less visibly by rouhani, do you think that's possible? some he said flatly no, i don't. i don't believe in compromise. i don't believe that the islamic republic should compromise its identity.

he went beyond that to saying that he thought that zarif the foreign minister had essentially misrepresented the deal that was struck in geneva, the interim six month deal to freeze iran's nuclear capability. he described zarif calling rouhani in the middle of the night from geneva and rouhani writing a letter to the supreme leader and then said this man, meaning zarif did not tell the truth about what's in that deal. that's a little bit chilling, to have somebody so close to the supreme leader in effect e -- repudiate the deal. zarif was very open to me about the extent to which he feels under pressure from the revolutionary forward. he's had a public fight with commander of the guard which he acknowledged, and these are unusual things in a country like iran. second basic point is about sanctions. we often hear and, indeed, use the phrase crippling sanctions

to describe the sanctions that have been applied to iran and they're pretty intense as economic sanctions go. robin was smiling when i used the phrase "crippling sanctions," and i think i know why, which is that when you go to tehran, this doesn't look like a country that's just hobbling on its knees about to fall over dead the way you sometimes get the sense reading our accounts of how we've just driven them to negotiations, you know practically broken their arms. no. they are a very resourceful people. they're good at suffering living with suffering and they've found ways to work around these sanctions. as cher as they are, you go to north -- clever as they are you go to north tehran and talk to a business person, and he'll tell you exactly down to the number of percentage points and the additional interest rate premium necessary to get financing for

illegal, banned, you know, supposedly impossible deals. .. is really our biggest leveraged. a related point. i kept hearing even in this brief period, intense criticism of president ahmadinejad are just left office his links with the revolutionary guard and the

corrupt nature in people's minds of the deals that he had made and the way in which shiraz oil income -- sharon's oil income was particularly wasted. three or four people talk about this, $700 billion that iran earn in oil sales during the ahmadinejad eight years. where did it go? what happened to that $700 million? people asking as if it were a criminal indictment almost. that's something important in terms of what we say to iran. that these people, the people close to the revolutionary guard have been involved in stealing money that belongs to you. a final point i would make is really about process. i think, my strongest take away as i left tehran was just how hard it's going to be to get this deal that they think is very much in iran's and america's interest.

and i would close this introductory part of our discussion, by saying that if there some way that the united states and its allies to give the iranian people a taste of what it would be like to cross the threshold into this future where they join the rest of the world, have open contacts have modern music performances. i've love to see some of the kind of diplomacy we did in the early detente they years where you like rock music or ballet or symphony, let the ayatollahs tell people they can't listen to music. i mean i don't think they will, and i think things like that could make a difference. so i'll stop there. >> david, actually. robin, thank you both very much. so you were both there. what i like to really start off

with is a sense of what's going on there. you have both given us that part. what surprised you the most, robin, you have addressed this. one of the surprises you you've heard from them was you even there. but as you look at society look at the economy as david described, what surprised you? you've been there for many years. >> forty years. >> many years. so you've seen it either not change a long time to you been back now and what is your sense? >> well, like david, one of the things that really strikes you is how the economy seems to be when you on the streets thriving, the grand bazaar is popping. the isles are packed. you go into north tehran and there's a technology mall that is just for computers. there are so many apple stores that have the apple brand on the. one of the pictures you saw i

took from coming you can get an ipod iphone, ipod latest variety in india cover. porsches sellout -- almost ordered in advance. that this is not crippled in this sense, and we need to be careful about how much we assume sanctions will do anymore. yes, it is complicated business, and in the case of the chemical weapons victims, they couldn't get access to a lot of the medicines, not because of sanctions, because the u.s. allows all humanitarian clothing, education materials, to be exempt from sanctions. but because banks were not willing to be engaged in transactions that even if it was for medicine. and so i went to a hospice care facility where one guy is literally dying, may have died

since i came back and they were showing me the inhalers that he needed. and american-made, and he couldn't get access to because no pharmacy could get anybody to finance the ability to buy these things. in terms of surprises i've been trying for 34 years to get into the american embassy in tehran. i covered the hostage crisis and revolution and stood at the foot of the steps of the plane in al-jazeera's when the americans disembarked. this time i got in and i had a revolutionary guard take me around the building. it was really -- it was actually to be honest with you although anti-climatic at this point but it was fascinating. the gold shag carpeting is all matted and filthy, and it's kind of crude. it says on the door papers for jarret brown, and then the old room where they had diplomatic

discussiodiscussio ns, the iranians have a big sign, they call it the glassy room. they have these three mannequins who have cheap suits and disheveled wigs and they are many kids that don't completely been because they are sitting straight back. they are supposed to be american diplomats having their secret conversations. my revolutionary guard said to me, and that one is supposed to be ambassador sullivan. he which allows ambassador. he died last month. they actually keep up with this stuff. i think the thing that surprised me was how -- i also then went to see the man who masterminded the takeover the american embassy, one of three masterminds, and i found him fascinating. here he is today, you know white-haired, slightly punchy but clean-shaven in contrast so

-- in contrast to someone in iran advocating not only the resumption of relations between the united states and tehran but also the reopening of the embassy. you got a sense of -- that we really are two countries for the first time in 34 years, and we marked the 35th anniversary on february 1. we are on the same page. whether we can turn the page is still the big question. this nuclear deal is important, not just because we all want to prevent a country from getting the world's deadliest weapons. it's also important because everywhere i went people told me the parliamentary election next you will be decided in terms of who's allowed to run what the public mood is what the kind of big guns how they see the mood on the street. if there's a nuclear deal. if there's a nuclear deal then there will be more of the realists or even some of the

reformers allowed to run. i went to see khomeini is granddaughter who is a leading women's rights activist, and she talked about the nuclear deal would determine women's rights. if there is a nuclear deal, the president will be all the more empowered to do things on other issues, including rights for women. they have a sense that they really want this deal. and that is i think to the advantage of the nuclear team. for all the obstacles they face from the hard-liners who still control the judiciary, still control the legislature, there is a real public mood in favor of a deal. and i think to answer the question, the amount of that surprised me. >> same page? >> well, a couple of surprises or just things that i was able to see that might interest you. i got to know a first rate from

what i can tell, really world class scientists, molecular biologist, somebody who is doing work dealing with neurodegenerative disease like what my daughter's now young doctor was working on in the labs. is a person who has very commercial ideas who's nervous about starting a company in the country that isn't part of the wto because she can't protect intellectual property. doesn't want to leave iran. just doesn't know what to do. he's caught. and that's ending sample of the -- you know this society waiting to jump into the future and the people who have come want to play on the world stage in business and finance that

the united states needs to be speaking to. i think the other thing i would just note, it touches on the comment robyn cited the famous comet of kissinger's is iran and nation or a cause. and that's a sort of code for asking, as iran turned the corner from its revolution? the iranian revolution in 1979 was the great destabilizing event in that region, you know whose tremors still affect iran and other countries. it's like the french revolution in europe. think i want to europe to absorb all of that destabilizing energy. and i kept looking for signs that the revolution is over and finding signs that, at least among people at the commanding heights, people with guns, it

isn't. i'm sorry to say that but i think iran's destabilizing role in the region its willingness to encourage turmoil in syria, lebanon, bahrain, down the list. i didn't go this anything but it was on the record interview basically say saudi arabia couldn't last and the saudis will come down as our part of the world changes, meaning the saudi royal family. there's that basic revolution idea, destabilizing ideas is still there. i don't know how to deal with that. i would love to have discussions will get a q&a about that, how should we think about that issue and outside of iran? how much should we allow them to continue with these that give it is, and where should we say no, that's not acceptable. >> let me ask one other question

that follows on what both of you have said particularly your last comment, david, and then we will open it up. be preparing your questions. robin, you talked about strategic recount will -- recalibration. david, you said you were worried that the revolution continues. real debate in there. is there a recalculation? what are the implications for nuclear deal for syria for iraq, as you vote this morning? and then i agree with you there's some very smart people in this room who will have views on this as well but if you can each talk a little bit about the applications -- whether or not there's a recalibration and if so, what is the obligation? >> i think david made at a tremendously important point about the revolution, and it's clear that since 1979, the big debate in iran whoever was president, but it played out in

every election, was is the islamic republic of iran first and foremost islamic, or is it for some foremost a republican? and under the former they tried to push her towards the direction of the republic, and under the hard-liners to keep its ideological purity. and this is a debate that is far from over. that's why the realist are interesting because we're trying to bridge the two but they are not going to answer this existential question. in terms of the strategic recalculation i think that again, i think david is right, that iran is one of the most nationalistic countries in the world. i often tell people that if you want to understand persian nationalism, to think of the most chauvinistic texan and then add 5000 years, and then you begin to understand just how deep those passions ago. and that they will continue to do anything it takes to protect

their national interests or to promote their national interest. but i also think that the realists have been willing to consider some important steps. and on syria and i talked to come you know, on the record and off the record to the foreign minister, the chairman of the foreign relations committee in parliament. several mps both reformers and hard-liners. and there is a sense, a recognition that syria may not hold together as long as assad is in power and that as a result, what's the best alternative? they have indicated in some again on the record, some off the record that they are prepared to live off ahead.

in other words president assad to keep the body to keep the baath party as a part of whatever the next political system is. and that's an interesting position. i think they are very worried about, in iraq about al qaeda or isis reemerging. and i think this -- that in a way they once were such a problem for maliki that they understood that these whether it's the sons of iraq militia, that getting the sunnis on their side is actually in iran's interest to stabilize that country. and they think of it not just in terms of stability but this is a big economic outlet, a border country. and so look they're never going to walk away from hezbollah. hamas, you know i thought one of the most interesting things is how they are reverting to the

language on the arab-israeli conflict that president copy need used in the late 1990s. that if there is a deal between the arabs and the hustings and israelis, they're not going to be the ones to say no to it. to try to sabotage it. i actually think there are so many other bigger problems that the arab-israeli conflict doesn't have the profile or the priority that it once did. >> david? >> just a couple of thoughts about these big strategic issues that i think are at the center of what u.s. officials need to be thinking about, and if they can, discussing with the iranians. what is in our interest and i think we need to show is in their interests, is a process in which iran turns towards being a player in, you know, maybe a

leading regional player in some kind of new structure for security in the region. and the essence of that deal is that iran understands their limits on its ability to move toward having nuclear weapons. highly destabilizing the indian, dangerous for them as well as for the region. and also have to accept limits on its covert action in neighboring countries, like the ones that i mentioned. and what he gets out of that is acceptance that it is going to play this major role. it's a little bit like, if you can imagine him returning to the sort of status that iran dreamed of under the shah. and so i think, you know, laying out that idea for iranians and helping very elite think about it, get a feel for it is crucial. i talked at length with zarif

about this committee talked about some of his own writings that inner -- that are in a similar direction. interestingly i wrote kind of a quasi-scholarly article years ago in 2006 looking at some of henry kissinger's writings about how europe was stabilized after the french revolution. iranians gobbled them up and when ahmadinejad of all people came to washington, he wanted to talk about it. so the idea intrigues them. a second strategic point, one theme of the article i wrote this morning is that iran is incredibly adept at writing several sources at once. negotiating with the united states and the west about a nuclear deal as it continues to run hezbollah, as it backs assad in a bloody civil war. meanwhile, it's got multiple iraqi militias, some competing with each other, all of which is

covertly ascending into syria. they are masters at this and it's very, very skillful policy, i have to say. the united states needs to do, in its way a little bit of the same. we need to ride multiple horses at once. we are trying to do something important with the iranians in the shia world. it scares are sunni friends but we ought to be sort of redoubling our engagement with our sunni friends at the same time. it may appear to be contradictory. so what. often, good policy has always of contradictions. so writing several horses at once is the way this part of the world will work for a while, and we need to understand that and get better at it. >> david, thank you. in the audience people are listening carefully. this is very very good advice. let me invite you in the

audience to ask questions of these two about any other things you've heard so far per if you will raise your hand, and there are mics on either side. and the first question is right up in the balcony here, and it may be harder to get the mic to that -- loudly. can you do that? c-span -- >> i'm from the muslim public affairs council, and my question is directed towards david. and i found it interesting that he made a statement, something to the effect that the iranians felt saudi arabia will not last. the thing is well, you thought iran played a destabilizing role in the region, which, of course, it doesn't. but my question is twofold. one, do you think that the statement meant that iran will play a role in bringing saudi arabia down? or was it simply a statement of fact considering that there are

many destructive forces within saudi arabia itself? and number two, don't you feel that your statement reflects a bias in terms of talking about destabilization in the region? i mean, a lot of people feel that you're talking about iran being destabilizing, but look what saudi arabia is doing. it's interesting you made a comparison between those two and don't you think that just reflect a bias that many people feel the u.s. government has? >> it's a good question, well phrased. i don't mean to be saying that i think the status quo and the status quo powers, as opposed to revolutionary iran you know, in all cases deserve u.s. support. i hope saudi arabia will address its deep internal problems. i hope saudi arabia will modernize, adapt, become a more open country become a prosperous country as it does

so. so yes you're right. saudi arabia has and iran problem. iran does medal, especially in the eastern province, but saudi arabia's biggest problems are internal, and have to do -- deal with issues the saudis have dissolved. so i accept the caveat. the sunni world is convinced that iran has its hands at their throats. i mean, if you travel -- i spent a week in abu dhabi and dubai before going to tear pay rent, waiting for my visa and had a chance to talk to a lot of gulf arabs and the degree of anxiety about iran as they look at this process, the change that is beginning is really important. and i think it's important, whenever you're in a very to

change to reach out to people who are your traditional friends and tell them what you are doing. communicate more. if i would fault one aspect of u.s. policy is in this very turbulent period we have not been communicating enough to the various players, especially our traditional allies. >> thank you, david. yes, right here. >> thank you bill. to come to a deal there's got to be a quid pro quo. and i think the problems in geneva, we're going to have to deliver relief of sanctions and having worked on the sanctions and the state department i know there's an incredible web of bilateral, regional, multilateral sanctions out there, and they are owned by various groups. i'm really worried about our ability to be able to deliver on release of sanctions to lower

the iranians to give on the nukes. >> so just briefly, it's interesting that iranian economists who are advising the government, told me that the new budget for iran assumes that sanctions will continue. in other words, although they desire sanctions relief they're not writing their budget based on the idea that there will be a new windfall. indeed, the most interesting thing that rouhani is doing through his economic ministers is trying to get the import export balance in better shape, independent of oil exports. so they're trying to boost non- non-exports of iron ore, of copper, others strategic minerals. they are trying to boost petrochemical sales. they're trying to boost a range

of things. at the same time that they lower unnecessary imports, that they get a balance, the numbers people share with me would be on the order of $80 million coming in that they could pay for with non-oil exports. they are battening down for a sanctions contain world. i have to say, looking at how hard the issues are on the table, i would be surprised if by the end of this six-month free spirited they can be negotiated. so, you know the goal of comprehensive -- settlement and comprehensive relief of sanctions, i just don't see that happening after six months. and i think the iranians probably get back. and they understand sanctions will come off slowly. they've watched the u.s. congress. they know how much intensity there is behind the idea of adding more sanctions. a final thought.

more sanctions will in part have the effect of enfranchising just as they did in iraq the most corrupt people who control levers of illegal business. and we have to remember that, that much more aggressive sanctions that followed breakdown of negotiations will empower the people we would least like to see on top. >> robin, your thoughts both to the question but also on this question, the issue of sanctions. and like to keep it focused on tehran, but as the congressman has already indicated, it leads into washington politics as well. on the sanctions question what was your observation that? >> similar to david's. one of the important things we have to understand is there are sanctions imposed for a lot of different reasons and not all related just to the nuclear program. they are for support of

extremist groups, state sponsor of terror, anyway there are multiple issues. and the iranians are looking in the current package really to get relief from the sanctions imposed just over a year ago or a year and half ago that went into effect in the summer of -- last summer, is that right? right, last summer. at impose sanctions on any third party that buys iranian oil. and that has affected their ability to sell to the six largest trading partners. that's what you're looking for. they are not looking for the nuclear deal to go beyond and deal with issues of the arab-israeli peace process or support for extremist groups. human rights. there are some sanctions imposed because human rights violations and so forth. those issues it doesn't want to put on the table, those sanctions it knows they know will not be lifted.

so it's one narrow section. i will say that zarif said if the sanctions are imposed by congress, even if they don't go into effect for six months, the nuclear deal is dead. that they have the terms of the interim deal say no new sanctions in exchange for what is really quite small sanctions relief. giving them just over $4.6 billion in cash and a little bit more in other things, that it's a token relief particularly in the fact that they're losing so much more because of sanctions and their inability to sell oil. so, you know in terms of -- i guess i'm a little bit more optimistic about whether they could in principle to a deal because the iranians are very focused on what sanctions relief they know they can get.

what i'm more pessimistic about is the fact that i think there's a greater danger that congress will make what could be an epic miscalculation in passing new sanctions, thinking it will add pressure to iran and bring us closer to a deal when it could actually sabotaged it anyway that would ultimately put the military option back on the table. it would basically be a war resolution. >> congresswoman harman has already given advice to the congress on how to avoid exactly that. yes, right here. >> to answer your question, mr. ignatius, david, do you, you mentioned that you are really still very concerned about the revolution in face of iran. i just want to make a quick comment that you have to remember that this government came into power with the platform of anti-u.s. and anti-israel. so it's really difficult for

them at this point especially khamenei, to abandon that because this is basically the constituency that they need to support. but this case is burden much fading away and it is really not very attractive to many iranians. about a month ago there was an anniversary of 1979 embassy takeover, and my daughter who's a journalist better reported that there was a march with the students, young students, elementary school students walking on the streets of tehran and launching anti-u.s. slogans. when they were asked why are they here? a bunch of the voice answered, we're just lucky and happy that we'rewe are not going to school today. so you can imagine many of these kids don't take these slogans quite seriously. this was an answer to your quick comment about the concerns of the revolutionary face of iran.

>> if i could just briefly respond. america is a country born in revolution and we celebrate our revolution every year, and we celebrate the revolutionary patriots who were our founders. and i did that. not the idea that we're going to ask iran to abandon this history, it is unrealistic. that said, if i were to express a hope for the way iran will move, i would think of the rise of deng xiaoping, and people like him in china who preserved communist party and its authoritarian structure. it's a shame that china doesn't have more freedom. but it did turn towards the west. maintain a nominal demand that they would someday take taiwan which was their rightful

possession, but didn't really do anything about it. if you have that kind of outcome here, where you had and iranian done shopping, this is our shame, i'll revolution continues and we embrace it because it's ours but move the country into a connection with the west recognizing that security and instability come from making things like the nuclear deal. then i think that's probably for now, that would be fine. i think that's a useful analysis. wouldn't be perfect. i would still be sad about some of the oppressive things in iran, but i understand that. spent can i add just one little thing? i often try to go to iran on november 4, for the anniversary of the takeover. because i covered the original hostage there. and it's very funny because the government has declared november 4 to be pupils day and they do give everybody a day off school if they show up at the

embassy. and one you're not too long ago they were handing around little cards, don't do business with any of these brands because they do business with israel. and calvin klein, and so forth but what makes me laugh and i drove off from the commemoration, and up the street was this huge billboard for calvin klein, you know, that the revolution is full of these great contradictions but you still see the language, down with america that is on one of the pictures i showed your that covers like a 12 story building. and yet the mood is very much as if that's of a different time in their history. and the mastermind of the hostage takeover the industry takeover also said to me he said i'm realistic. i believe that everything has its time and its place, and that time is over. and that's when somebody who led

it. >> ic-3 hands here. let me acknowledge that there are people in the other room overflow, who also sent in a question, one of which continues, or ask about the strategic recalculation, the obligations. could u.s. and iran's mutual opposition to al qaeda in iraq and syria bolster u.s.-iran relations, especially with regard to u.s. nuclear deal is? the kind of link just and is there real change in the overall approach? david, do you want to start? >> i think certainly as al qaeda put down deep roots in the euphrates valley in syria and iraq both united states is turning to shia allies who are supported by iran. we are now providing weapons,

technological fear and lots of advice to the maliki government in baghdad, which is i don't want to say a client of tehran but it's pretty darn close. you know, you can imagine a situation down the road where the kind of sharing of information that took place after 9/11 if you read ryan crocker's comments on the record in a remarkable article in "the new yorker" several months ago about the head of the quds force in tehran, ryan describes the extent to which we were sharing information with the iranians about the al qaeda threat. you know, again, from what i know this, unfortunately, is another example of iran's ability to write several forces at once. i mean, it's clear that iran has liaisons with al qaeda, even as

it is threatened by al qaeda. the question of what to do in iraq and syria, and how to get this very dangerous threat under control and who are the right allies, you know is kind of absolutely central strategic issue for the administration right now. i'm glad the head of policy planning is sitting in the front row, and that he has to sort this out because it's really a hard one. the idea that we would end up sharing information with iran about mutual adversaries, that's happened in the recent past with al qaeda and in afghanistan. it's entirely possible it will happen before too long. >> the thing that concerns me about the idea of a military strike against iran is a bad idea some leading saudis would like to see that happen.

as much or perhaps even more because of those pesky little shiites across the gulf, as the nuclear question. and my deep concern is that when we look at iran and the nuclear program, we don't often factor in how this would play to the secretary and divide. for me -- sectarian divide. to me the greatest threat across that region today is the many different aspects of the sectarian divide. you could make the case that it is deeper today than any time since the original schism, 14 centuries ago. it is more extensive. it affects apart -- so much larger part of the world. it is a global phenomenon the way it plays out in terms of security interests, economy security. and that we tend to put in a

bubble each individual issue, and this is one on this very important question. that gets to something much deeper that's happening in the region that could end up i did a piece in "the new york times" in september reach on the map in the middle east that it affects a lot of -- much more fundamental basics of that region that would have a tremendous spillover on all of us. >> okay. here, i've got at least three. we will start here. >> my name is peter and i'm retired from the state department. the comments thus far if you look at the map above you has focused on the countries regions with iran. i would like our two guests panelists, to give us some insight into what the iranians are thinking of the area east of iran, specifically afghanistan and pakistan. how worried are they about

pakistan's nukes? how worried are they about what happens in afghanistan after the u.s. departs? >> let me take a first crack at that. one of the more interesting comments that was made to me the person i won't describe, said put down your pen, i don't want you to write this. the biggest reason we need to think about having a nuclear weapons program is pakistan. you know they do pakistan, and a new neighbor, as a country that could be much more dangerous to their interests in the future. they worry to the extent of the u.s. tried to manage this problem, we haven't done every good job of it. so i think that's something on their strategic radar we need to be aware of. i think like everybody in the

region, they are apprehensive about what happens as the u.s. draws down its troops. they nominally say that they want no american military presence in afghanistan. i'm not sure that they really mean it, but other people who are specialists would know better than i. the iranians do seem to be willing to play more in discussions about the future of afghanistan. at least they signaled that they would be willing to. hussein missile beyond was just come back to iran was at princeton, wrote a book, i commend the people who really follow iran that was published last year very open account of his role working with rouhani, zarif, a decade ago. but he says in his book that the iranians made an explicit offer

after richard holbrooke's death when the marc grossman became a special representative for afghanistan-pakistan that he come to iran for discussions about the mutual interest shared by iran and the united states in the with the taliban problem in afghanistan and stabilizing afghanistan. and that the u.s. never responded. so that's an interesting statement on the record by a prominent iranian that says this is an area where we would be willing to talk to you. >> can i just -- i run a website called iran primer.com and is now the most competence of website in the world in any language on iran. we have every major pronouncement, article, analysis on every aspect. it was originally a book. we put the whole book on the web and we add 12 13 pieces a week of analysis. with every statement, action by the u.s. but also by iran.

we just ran a four-part series on iran and south asia so there's one on iran and afghanistan, iran and pakistan, iran and india. so i commend it to you. so iran primer.com. >> very good. let's go here. >> thank you. i'm from george mason university. my question is about new technology and social media. we know more than 50% of iranians have access to internet, and rouhani and zarif also on twitter. but a few days ago they had a policy to have more censorship on social media and internet access. how is it fixed with the realistic policy of rouhani? >> i'm happy to take that.

i follow both rouhani and zarif on their twitter account coming yesterday in fact which is posted on the iran primer today tweets from the presidents account on his speech about freedom and the arts. and one of the problem is that president rouhani doesn't have control over that issue, and it's one which he's talked about a lot. and again this goes back to the nuclear deal, that they can't do anything else until they get this nuclear deal and they prove their credits and the rest of the regime has to bend more because the balance of internal power moves more and rouhani's favor. they also don't want him to quit because that's what the reformers did in opening up all these newspapers that then went after everybody within the power structure. ..

was right after he was in new york was in this place in new york going back to istanbul and posted something about i am having trouble with the internet or having trouble posting and someone in iran said now you know what it is like for the rest of us. >> the president doesn't have responsibility for that. who does? >> carries a national security

council that is the powerful entity and there are those on it from the intelligence from judiciary and different branches have to come to agreement on a lot of basic issues. the most important name that is not known in this country, the person to watch is a man named ali shamkhani the national security adviser, a former minister of defense during the reform you're a. the only arab in the inner circle. many believe because he got after the green movement and said to the two candidates who have been under house arrest furred two years that they should never have been arrested and he took a strong stance and is widely believed in tehran among the people atop to that he

is in that job in part because he is going to slowly move toward getting some relief. the mood is within many of the inner circle is ok to let them go and millions would turn out on the street in support and that would seem to be an embarrassment for the supreme leader and the timing is not yet right on that issue. there is this strange system that iran's constitution based on belgian and french law but the traditional branches of government have a parallel branch of islamic clerics or scholars that has veto power or has a say and italian youth ministries and not just one that also have a say and don't always

fully collaborate with politicians so taking steps on things like censorship is not flicking a switch. >> that is well said. >> up here, right here please. that the other one's in mind. >> thank you. middle east analysis, just a question about the internet thing. my concern is on your visit there is some sort of grace period and how long would it be? thank you. >> i think rouhani has six months, eight months, maybe all of this year to produce

something. iran has parliamentary elections next year and everyone is looking at that and when we went to talk to some of the former reform members of parliament who were subsequently disqualified by one of the islamic councils or guardian council, they talked about preparing the ground that knows them, will try to run again but they are actively recruiting and for momentum to move in the favor of the rouhani hard-line lock on parliament, something has to happen this year. earlier than the end of the year. doesn't have forever

legislative elections are as important in iran as in this country. 10% of parliament is reformed and the rest of them are conservatives are a hard line. >> right here. >> that is okay. >> i am a retired foreign service -- i have two questions which are different. one is how do they view us? it seems to me, and they may come to the conclusion they're tired of war and a more aggressive approach to us might be in order. the other one goes to an interesting aspect of iran the source of drugs.

is a high abuse rate of heroin for example, one of the highest in the world and they are increasingly a source of methamphetamine. did you see in the streets, the people use spoke with, concern about the abuse of drugs in iran? >> the u.s. and drugs. >> the first thing to say is almost everybody you encounter in iran, and i should say this is not a lot of people from south tehran and few are an american visitor, everyone has a brother, a cousin somebody in the u.s. who has done spectacularly well and so the idea of america as a place where iranians have prospered is a very powerful idea and they look at us as the place where people

go and make money and generally have good lives. looking at u.s. policy they initially were probably mystified when we have taken down the biggest national security problem was saddam hussein in iraq and fought an inconclusive tweet year war against iran, and that was the end of the said dom problem. and the role of the taliban and extremism on the other border, and go after adversaries and al qaeda. and policiesmakers in tehran scratch their heads, what is this conspiracy that is serving the national interest of iran

what is the trek. there is the view in iran and elsewhere in the region which is exhausted. it is war-weary and in retreat from this part of the world and frankly they are reading the country pretty accurately. there is no arguing with that. the president has to find public support, there is staying power for the strategy we choose, and understand that. they're serious about strategic -- and if the perception that the u.s. is on -- why would you make a deal -- there's no better

deal. the classic problem. and the distressed sellers. >> i would only add one anecdotes. i went to see the new head of the foreign ministry think tank. of very thoughtful guy, he did scratches head and in terms of the nuclear deal, and don't know what they're doing. the president comes out, celebrate this deal, and under the terms and congress turns brown, and impose new sanctions, dad does that make sense? when you ask what they think of us there is a very distinct division between what they think of the united states and what they think of the american

people and that has always been true and i often go to's tomb several years ago i met an american tour group so i said to one of the women who was quite a world traveler what do you think? she said it is so refreshing being in a country that they like americans. and it is true. this time i went to the tomb and one of the pictures that was shown, two of the dusters two guys with their green and yellow dusters to the tomb, and took a picture of them. when i went to the women's security side, wanted to make sure i didn't have anything, normal security check, where is

your phone? the united states, she said welcome, deer, welcome. this was not north tehran where they have a long history. on the question of drugs this is a serious one for iran and the highest percentage use of heroin and in the old days be rule of thumb was traffic could move from afghanistan throughout iran as long as it wasn't left behind in iran and obviously particularly beginning with the warriors it was and it has become a chronic problem. i have seen in the past the drug use wandering the streets begging for money and the iranians opens up facilities for them to deal with recognized as

the drug problem in the same way that despite mahmoud ahmadinejad's comments about there being no gays in iran they are dealing with the hiv problem now. that there is -- recently opened alcoholism centers so they are being more realistic about dealing with some of these growing problems. >> thank you. here in the middle, to you guys in the middle. we have 15, not quite 20 minutes left trying to get as many as i can. >> you mentioned early in the talk that rouhani has gained some popularity since he came to power and i wonder about the backlash from people who made a lot of money and have a lot of success from the sanctions and the revolutionary guard how much has there been a backlash

and how much power did those people have? >> you both addressed that. you want to start on that? >> i think rouhani is described to me as being more powerful now for several reasons. most iranians hope that his opening to the west succeeds. he ran in the elections last june as the candidate who said we can't just have friendships with russia and china. we need to have friendships with west and a powerful legal event are embarrassed to feel so isolated. he is seen compared to many -- to mahmoud ahmadinejad by have different people i've talked to seen as a better manager. mahmoud ahmadinejad was seen as chaotic incompetent always embarrassing iran with his

statements. rouhani is more efficient and his economic management by the market's doing better and currency on the black market. but inflation is down, i believe the exports are up. other indices of good economic management show that he is doing better and that makes him popular so my feeling is even if, and i think robin is right, at a year is the right time horizon to think about how long there is to work on this even if at the end of the year there is a comprehensive deal i don't think the backlash against rouhani would overwhelm him. it might overwhelm the foreign minister but the two were not completely interchangeable. one more interesting thing about rouhani. when i interviewed him in september in new york when he

came for the general assembly, i had the only on the record printer to interview that he gave, gave a lot of other sessions that were more background, and he said in the course of that i think we can negotiate a nuclear deal with in three months and my jaw dropped. the other thing that was fascinating is i asked him about something he said during the campaign how the rtc is too powerful, the security agencies in iran are too powerful and they should pull back and i said you still feel this and what are you going to do about it? thinking that he probably wouldn't answer it and he did answer it on the record and said yes. i think the i r g c is in many

ways a wonderful organization but should stay out of politics for relationships with other political groups, and other parts of our society need to blossom. that is really interesting. somebody wrote a recent commentary that i am sure robyn posted on her sight noting that he is not doing this directly he is not challenging the i r g c. directly but trying to get the supreme leader to do it for him. that is the space that i would most be watching myself the space between rouhani and the revolutionary guard. is that space widening? are there signs he is trying to reduce their say over the files they now control? >> the supreme leader has come out more than once and said it is time for the revolutionary guards to go back to their barracks and help the country

develop economically and this really plays to what happened after the iran/iraq war when it was a war-weary society, the economy in dire straits. and rally support for the government by opening the floodgates and they imported anything -- i remember going to the first mercedes benz franchise because i thought this was something. two guys who were running it managers, early bearded, a stereotypical revolutionary guard times. i said this doesn't quite match so i asked about their backgrounds and sure enough they were vets and what happened was after the iran/iraq war particularly as they wanted to keep the guards and all those

who fought in this very grisly conflict want to keep them on board and so they bought them out and have been buying that ever since and they are now so deeply into the process that the revolutionary guards, veterans and companies run by the guards construction companies particularly are a huge percentage of the economy but it is i think one of the most interesting lines i heard was when i asked about the leadership of the revolutionary guards and someone said at the end of the day, the head wants to keep his job and we forget that there are realities for them as well and they want the system to survive. >> in the blue shirt.

>> this message is for robyn, going around for 40 years. probably had a few tee sessions and sat down with iranian women so i am curious to know this time around what is your take, what where their concerns, aspirations, and contact as well. >> is a good question and the women know that they are in a holding pattern and women's rights are not a top priority right now. at the same time president rouhani has talked quite often, tweeted about equal job opportunities, equal pay, giving women the opportunity to get

outside the home, have equal access to education. there is a sense that the current government's heart is in the right place but it is not likely to be able to do anything dramatic and this is where i saw one of the offspring of ayatollah khamenei, a women's rights activists and she went back to the nuclear deal and said if we get the nuclear deal than that opens the door for other things to happen. so everybody is waiting and that is why this year is very important because it is not just the nuclear deal everything that the united states would like to see happen in iran is on the line with the nuclear deal as well and that is the tragedy

of the possibility of senate sanctions. by doing that the senate thinks that doing something that will help achieve american goals when it could be the most counter-productive things that the u.s. does in terms of its very own goals. >> brief comment if you talk to demographers, one of the most striking developments in the world is the radical decline in birth rates among iranian women. they had just fallen off a cliff. there are sharp declines in fertility in most, many other muslim countries as well. in iran when you talk to people

if they just say education for women is widespread, i believe significant majority of those at the university are women, these women take their careers seriously, they are delaying marriage delaying having children so as to have careers, it is hard for a middle-class family in tehran to make ends meet and so often both members of the family work and again that had the effect of reducing birthrates. i find this aspect of iranian life fascinating becomes through in that marvelous movie that won the oscar separation. which is about the strains in a marriage caused by modern life. in so many parts of the world the changing role of women is

probably the most important driver of broader change, that that is true in iran too. >> i forgot one of my favorite stories about iran. after the revolution, the leadership called on women to breed an islamic generation and they did and in a decade iran's population went from 34 million to 62 million and at the moment when the government of god plummeted to earth because they realized they couldn't educate and eventually employ and reduce the voting age to 15 and suddenly that meant all these young people had the dominant say, today over 50% of the population is post revolutions of the government in the 1980s introduced a family-planning program and everything was free tubal ligation, vasectomy, the

water tower, english and farcy, that sector made clinic here. un population data clerics would give talks about limit your family to two and i went to a vasectomy clinic where the cleric was taking two of his guys to have this surgery and the iranians figured out a way to reverse that selig wasn't necessarily permanent. wife died or children died or something. and it did. it brought the average number of children down to under two and your and won two awards one from the united nations for having the most effective non coercive family-planning program and also 35,000 women they recruited to preach the benefits of family planning that the children would have better health the mother would have more of a life, and country's

welfare wouldn't be squandered on all these children but could be more focused and more resources could be used for the defense of the nation and it was incredibly effective than the numbers turn around with lightning speed and then they decided to introduce a program to make sure this became a part of life, every couple getting married would have to get a family planning, goes through a family planning course with the beach roads so i decided to go to one of these classes to see what it was like and i have to tell you i learned some things. they are incredibly graphic and there were many couples who were arranged marriages and they just met each other a couple weeks and the bride's brother or father, there was a chaperone a class of them and even had a

giant phallus ended the condom thing. oh my god. they apologized, couldn't use their musical tapes because they don't play music during that month. but you have to have that certificate to get your marriage license but the interesting thing now is, the second thing about women's education is the clerics didn't realize that the unintended consequence of the revolution was a lot of traditional families who didn't allow their girls to go to school beyond elementary schools suddenly began to trust the system of education and let them go on and as a result you have 64% of the university community that is now female and iran has won the highest award for gender equality, more girls in school across the board then there are

boilers but it has led to an unusual demographic in that now they are realizing that you have this really big generation where you have six decades that will work its way through the system where there were six children per family. being supported by two children and it is the same problem, social security, and so now the government is under mike wood, denis judd talked about giving gold coins and other incentives so families would have more children but the interesting thing is as david said now it is part of the system, two child per family the accepted norm. there's not a lot of interest in going beyond that because they realize those basics. >> let me ask the last question which is where do we go from here? based on your observations,

there is some of vice on the sanctions bill, robin called a war bill, david has some advice on integrating iran into a regional structure and outreach to the sunni states surrounding. how would you like to conclude? what final thoughts about the way forward? you have to start. >> i actually do think the deal is possible. i think the iranians will do a lot and will compromise more than we think they will to get it. they are ready to move on. a lot of reasons for things we don't always recognize, the environmental problems in iran are horrific as david knows. the pollution, you wonder if that half the population doesn't

have lung disease. three of the four most polluted seas in the world are in iran now. they are running out of water. we did a great piece on the iran primer about these environmental challenges, some of the rivers of gone totally dry. this is a reality and we keep thinking in terms of crippling sanctions. there are a lot of much more basic questions they are really interested in. they want to move on so there are prospects. the problem is i am worried that 34 years of tension and making them the enemy there was a postcard. >> we will be the last few minutes of this discussion but a quick reminder you can watch it any time on our web site, c-span.org. the u.s. senate is about to gavel in for the day. lawmakers said to resume work on a bill that would extend emergency unemployment benefits that expired in december. the senate will recess for the weekly party lunches from 12:30

to 2:15 eastern. when they return at 2:30 a round of votes is scheduled including one on a democratic amendment to extend benefits through november. a group of republican senators offered a similar proposal but currently extends benefits only three months rather than 11 months democrats are seeking. live now to the u.s. senate on c-span2. . the president pro tempore: the senate will come to order. the chaplain will lead the senate in prayer. the chaplain: let us pray. eternal spirit, today teach our lawmakers to do things your way, embracing your precepts and walking in your path. remind them that the narrow and