and various areas like europe has really been focused on kind of a licensed approach to sharing. like licensed shared access or authorized shared access, the concepts that they're exploring. so if, you know, back in the old days, you know, you looked at within the united states the states as kind of the laboratories for experimenting with new approaches, it's now different countries or regions around world that are experimenting with different ways of providing for spectrum access. we ought to kind of learn from. i mean, the u.k., for example, experimented for a long time and developed the spectrum fees for their government users. and how they managed the government. so we've looked at that. the report i mentioned from stippy evaluates that. so we look at the other

countries as laboratories but as collaborators too. as jenna said, this is a global spectrum environment, and pretty much you need to be on the same page. but at the same time, you know, let others to kind of take the lead and see if it works out and maybe follow with that. that's a good approach too. >> great. >> so at the technical level there's a lot of work going on internationally. universities and so forth. so you go to a conference, as peter and i and i'm sure there's others here go to, called dice band which has been going on ten years? >> 2005, yeah. >> yeah. it's a bit surprising how much work is going on on dynamic spectrum access around the world. and, you know, the normal process is you first see these things in the laboratories and in the universities, and then

assuming they still have merit, they bubble their way up through the policy ranks. so i'll just focus on a couple of things. tv white space in the database model that we adopted here in the united states, it's been embraced already by a number of countries around world that are deploying systems either on a trial basis, experiment someplace operational. in many of these countries, they actually have more white space than the united states. and if you're trying to send signals out for broadband at a distance, it's ideal. so it's an instance where something that was born in the united states is catching hold in other parts of world. of the world. the international process is slow to change, you know?

and i think it's understandable. you know, so while at times it can be frustrating, why is it moving so fast, you have to keep in mind there's huge investments in the systems that are there today, and we should be making sure that those systems are protected. the classic model has been the kind of stove piped allocationed. that's the way the international cable allocations is set up. so when you come to an operator or people who have, are stakeholders in a block of spectrum and say we've got a great idea, we're just going to put somebody in who will get out of your way, there's naturally first reaction of, well, that puts my system at risk, and it's not clear to me that it's actually going to work. and then, of course, in the end how does this -- other than

making the community better, how does this benefit me? so i think it's going to be a long process internationally where when people start to see benefits to their economies from access to these systems and that the technology also works, it will work its way into the international process. and, in fact, i think there's been a task group that's been looking at software-defined radio, cognitive radio. so it is getting more attention internationally. >> yeah. i just want to -- i think from a commercial perspective, you know, we kind of look at this, in many cases it can be like watching paint dry. it really does take a long time, and i certainly appreciate all the work that goes into teeing up these bands, the mobile brand. and i go back to, you know, to 2000 when a number of bands were teed up in the wrc and assessed for mobile broadband, and subsequent to that i think with the president's 500 megahertz

initiative, the work that's ongoing at ntia, going through the process of evaluating each of those bands, it is a lengthy process. and so, you know, the fcc has the tough job of trying to balance the federal needs with the commercial requirements, and so that, that is certainly difficult. i think on the technical level, you know, in preparation for the this upcoming work, you know, a number of joint technical working groups that are working to assess a number of bands that are going to be put on the agenda. but challenges are abroad, and i think it's going to take a lot of work on both sides. and peter's right, if the u.s. does lead, i believe, the world many this regard, other countries tend to follow our lead on it. so hopefully the process will speed up a little bit more. >> and i'll just add to the fact that the international standards

community and the role that they play in this so critical. i mean, carriers by their very nature are looking for the greatest economies of scale that they can get. and if you can get bands that are harmonized globally, that makes our device manufacturers much easier to build devices that are affordable. so i think this is one of the things that we all have to be -- especially those as we go into work and things like that -- the participants need to be thinking through how do we make sure we've got harmonized bands and, obviously, the least expensive devices that we can get. >> that's a pretty robust agenda there. let me see if anyone out in the audience has a question for our panelists. go ahead, please. >> thank you. carolyn brandon from georgetown. a question for any of the speakers, has there been any discussion or evaluation of the ability to use some of the spectrum in the re-lo fund for some of the r&d research related

to the answer of can certain things be cleared versus what are the best sharing opportunities? >> yes. >> many thank you, peter. [laughter] >> oh, you want -- [laughter] there's been several proposals to expand the use of those funds. why not reinvest auction proceeds into the development of new and better technology? it totally makes sense, right? right now the spectrum relocation fund that was created by the enhancement act of 2004 as amended recently in 2012 only covers costs for

the recommendations, other says suggested, you know, probably the csi as report from 2003. i don't remember. this suggests is some kind of legislation going its way. the auction proceeds will go into more broader, you know, reinvestment into that kind of stuff. the ndf has been out there as a matter of really getting, obviously it will probably require legislation every time you move the money from one purpose to another. either you're going to have to get congress to bless that. if there are other ways to do it, you know, i would be fine, but it is one of those ideas that has been around. is just a matter of implementing it. there are lots of demands for money. that goes to the point.

really we talk about the process these processes are such a drag, sometimes, on resources. finding the resources to get these things done, you know, whether it's through a test conducted tests, do modeling, simulation. i mean, i was talking to a company the other day, really large company, how long it took them to get approval to buy some kind of software package to the modeling. no, my god. and this was for one of the bands of the future that had a lot of state in a. so it's not just the government. it's a lot of folks that are, you know, hurting for money and resources. so any way to filter that back and r&d, testing, that would be great. >> anyone else? no? >> i just want to add, i think with regard to doing the testing

and the studies, from an institute perspective we actually embarked on the maturing activity to assess the type of emissions that we are encumbered in specific bands and figure out what impact businesses would have on an incumbent aircraft. so i think the results from that analysis for a very telling. we are hopeful to begin the process of sharing that with the regulatory community. hopefully as a way to, you know, move things forward with regard to how you can better share between federal and of federal assets. >> well, i was going to follow-up on that by saying a thing it is a great idea, the idea of using the srf, this might actually be a good input into a whole spectrum incentive because if you think about that

there are today disincentives for an agency to do testing and expand the resources to try to figure out how to either move out of a band of a shared, but a case in point, you're going back to the combat training center example i gave before. have there been money available for the u.s. army to have done there testing, that program might have accelerated itself to fall easily, but it took awhile. the point is that it was still a proposal that was brought to them that there were finally able to test and get behind and are now implementing. again, it is probably a way of getting around the disincentives for relocating. >> jennifer, can we get that? >> lockheed martin. my question is mostly for peter. so the that dod is providing in putting forward this new

strategy, are you seeing that reflected in any other federal agency? as you and the general noted, there really is no exclusive dod spectrum or very little. they shared with other agencies that may have significant infrastructure investment or operations. thank you. >> yes. >> okay. is -- on behalf of the federal agency at large is also re-examining its strategy along these lines. so obviously it plays into alliance with what will be announced later this week. so i won't go into any of the details on that, not to get out in front of that, but, again, like i mentioned before, it really should center around

technology and innovation, but also collaboration. so it is about -- it is continuing what we have kind of been doing in the sense that we bring the agencies to the table and being on the same page, seeing how they can work together in the example with regard to ban 1755, law enforcement surveillance a chivvies which happen across several federal and state agencies. so is their way that they can collaborate on developing the next generation of law enforcement surveillance applications and technologies? so it is really about, you know, getting the right people in the room talking to each other, a strategy or tactic of using this kind of crowd sourcing for lack of a better term among agencies

and the commercial side. so that is really a kind of focused strategy that i would like to see. and there are definitely other agency -- i mean, there are other agencies that are very interested, like the center for advanced communications we're developing. so they will be all participating in that. >> i think, yeah, i would agree with the short answer, yes. you know, you're actually seeing it, i think, in some of the grassroots and the agencies. having gone through this exercise, we focus here on commercial. there are plenty of other services are rarely in and sharing spectrum. the important point to mention is that it needs to be a 2-way street. and the agencies like this and say, well, okay, if you're going to believe in sharing for it

can't just be sharing my space. mesa also be providing for the benefits to agencies got to be able to share space elsewhere on the spectrum that, you know, where they may not have the allocation. we have actually issued proposals to do just that in the number of places. and certainly 1 million know about, you know, relative to commercial space launches has been very important, i think, to the federal government to have an upgrade in their allocation for their own crustacean's ever using commercial satellites. we proposed to allow federal systems to actually -- for federal users to have access to the space, even the specter we're talking about here and proposed to allow the three and a half. so i think there really has to

be a change in the way we looked at things on both sides. >> we don't have any final questions. to jimahead. >> goo ..ning. courtney robbins with -- [inaudible] industries association. and i suppose this question is mostly for fcc, though anyone's free to jump in. it has to do with unmanned aircraft systems kind of as a specific example of an emerging technology that is going to require spectrum sources. general wheeler had a couple pictures of the dominoes pizza uas and all this other stuff. but the jokes aside, this is going to be a technology that's going to, you know, have thousands of aircraft in the skies before too long, like we're thinking before 2020. and faa has a congressional mandate of 2015 for full integration.

yet don' yet we don't have -- one of the details that's missing from faa's road map is how to handle frequency for line of sight and beyond line of sight. i'm curious to know if -- well, dod has its set, civil users do not and what's the plan for addressing that. >> difference whether it's going to a private sector user. we have a lot of work ahead of us on this. first of all, i dope think people appreciate the uavs come in all shapes and sizes, and have all sorts of different applications. so you have to be concerned about command and control, concerned about in some cases we're looking to have -- we, i

talk collectively -- real-time video. so, we have a lot of work ahead of us in identifying exactly what the needs are and where the appropriate places for them to operate, and i think sharing is going to be a -- i take is a given. we have to figure out what can they share with. so, it's not going to be easy, but we'll find a way. >> the fcc clearly federal government as well. >> i'm glad you brought that up. also demonstrates the fact the demand is not only on the commercial side in your traditional broadband mobile applications. there's a lot of applications, federal and nonfederal, in other contexts, and supporting uavs

and other unmanned systems is huge, huge driver for -- so you'll see, for example, in the dod proposal for using 2520, suggests user smaller technology, multibanned capabilities so the newer approaches will be more dynamic and more capable of finding the best spectrum available when and where needed. so, you -- there's not one single scenario for those types of platforms. various altitudes and various locations and various times, and they'll have to be very, very spectrum agile, and so they're going to be driving a lot of that technological develop as well. so, i don't see the same old dedicated band approach.

there marry be one or two for the safety, life, command and control links, but video download, payload type applications, yeah, you're going to have find a spectrum, a variety of places. and just point out that the way that the supply chains work in these industries, are so different and they don't even cross each other sometimes. you look at the commercial mobile industry, the supplier is there, and look at the suppliers in other radio markets. they don't cross. so, you have to figure out a way for those to do a little cross-pollennization. >> i just want to touch on the number of bands. coincides with what general wheeler is talking about, having platforms withmultiband capability. what we found during the working

group projects, particularly uav platform itself is a multiband platform and actually had become somewhat agile in terms of your ability to move that system to other bands without impacting incumbent federal operations. so i think as we look to frequency bands, i hope we continue that same process and make sure that these platforms have a multiband capability. thank you. [inaudible] [inaudible question] >> -- we need to think about how the process can be streamlined and how it can be

guided by policy that is shaped by both national security and economic concerns, and general wheeler pointed out how enter twined those are, but still some sufficient differences that we need to think about, the balance between the two. we talked a little bit about incentives. we talked about technology. we talked about r & d. the technology one always strikes me as the silver bullet in some ways for spectrum problems. we always say we'll fix it because we'll have a new technology, which i -- i'm an opt miss on -- optimist on but you have to invest in it to get it. and then we talk about the slow process, when you throw in the international side. so these are good topics to think about in the future. i'll close by asking, anyone have any final words of wisdom they want to share? >> i'll start off. just by saying that the sharing is not the only solution. i think that the mobile operate

are -- operators and the auction environment, which is good for the and -- for the economy and the treasury, that needs to be done by cleared and vacated spectrum that can be sold at auction. while i understand the report is promoting sharing and even general wheeler said sharing is going to be the future. we as an industry and an economy, need to be thinking about how can we find more available spectrum to auction and provide the commercial mobile operators. >> first of all, thank you for having us. i think it's a balance. i think to julie's point, looking at the bands out there, it's a challenge for the federal government to find spectrum and make that available for mobile broadband, but i do think that

as julie pointed out, we're moving in the right direction. i think both industry and government are moving -- forging ahead and trying to figure out how to make this spectrum utilization work better for everyone. it's an evolution. not going to happen overnight. we're seeing some sharing capabilities we can employ,, so if we can continue to focus on the technology improvements that are facilitating access to those bands, then i think that's where sharing becomes more commonplace as what we're seeing today. thank you. >> i had mentioned i think the models we have had in the past of exclusive use will still be pursued, but as you look at the

spectrum chart, the challenge you have is the services that are there, where do you relocate them to? and that's what drives you off interest sharing to see if you can actually get value. by value, i mean not just having access to spectrum and saying i got 100 mega hurt here. only thing is i can't use it anyplace if there's people. has to be something that we actually -- is going to serve needs. so, i think we're going to continue to pursue along all fronts, and it's just not going to be any easier. >> no words of wisdom but maybe just words of ignorance to offer. know, we don't know where technology -- ten years ago we could not have predicted where we are.

we have predicted the industry would be back for more spectrum, for exclusive use, and i think it's easy to predict some parts of the industry would not favor a sharing approach and would like -- i think that a lot of fer agencies would like to have exclusive access to spectrum as well. so, just don't know where technology is going to lead. so if you have the incentive and drivers for technology to develop and make sure that any regulatory -- regulators are out of the way, it's a limit -- the future is limitless. so, let's come back and -- in ten years, after your next report, and we'll reflect on that ask see how your recommendations are doing, jim. but thanks for having us. >> well, i hope we can speed the process up a little bit more than ten years.

please join me in thanking our panel. [applause] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> tomorrow on c-span 2, deputy secretary of state william burns discusses arab countries in the persian gulf and influence of robb in the region. we'll have live coverage from the center for strategic and

international studies beginning 1:30 eastern. >> coming up on booktv, books about careers in washington. political strategist, mary madeline and james carville discuss their book "love and war" and then the book "my country tis of thee eye "and then a secret service agent talks about protecting the president and first lady. >> willing to admit -- but we teach people the difference between police officers and what one can actually observe. i believe we're teaching people to think critically about science. i believe the careerationist -- creationists should be educating the kids out there.

we admit origin of historical science is based upon the bible but i'm challenging evolutionists to be up front about the difference here. >> i encourage you to explain to us why, why we should accept your word for it, that natural law changed. just 4,000 years ago, completely, and there's no record of it. there are pyramids that are older than that. there are human populations that are far older than that. and it's not reasonable to me that everything changed 4,000 years ago, by everything i mean the species, the surface of the earth, the stars in the sky, and the relationship of all the other living things on earth to humans. it's just not reasonable to me that everything changed like that. >> evolution versus creationity. the science guy, bill nye,

debate wednesday night at 8:00 eastern on c-span. >> in the book, "love and war" mary madeline and james carville write about their lives since then 1992 election when they work on opposing sighs of the political campaigns. this is an hour. >> let's start where the book starts, new orleans. did you both want to leave d.c. at the same time or was there a lot of discussion about the move. >> that's a great place to start and a great place to --

summertime, and the living's easy. we also have a son who is here, so thank you all for coming out. i kept saying, who is coming out on an afternoon in the rain. new orleans. it's playing -- the new orleans saints are playing the seattle seahawks today. i want to hear a "who dat." >> i bring that up because that's what's we are fight about. he says we're an eight point undergoing, i say we're good together to win. after katrina, when he said, sugar, we going to become a sliver on a river, as i am from chicago, anybody from the midwest, you know that if you're a woman, any words that follow

sugar, you're going to melt. so i'll follow you anywhere, honey. the issue was the kids were then ten and 12 and we had built our careers here, and i was little nervous about having the children, the girls, for whom i have had some high academic expectations, to be in proximity with his academic record of 11 years at louisiana state university. [laughter] >> so i'll let you pick it up from there, honey. >> thank you very much. when it became public they were moving, they called me and i said, i'm just like an old jew. i'm going back to jerusalem. after the events of august 2005,

i'd always lived upriver from new orleans and did spend a lot of time there and my grandparents got married there and i was used, abused, pore take done portaked of the cull tour and assumed it would be there whenever i wanted. then the stories started coming in about whether people were going to come back. and there were a thousand drum trumpets lost in the storm, and this kind of thing -- understand the thing that sets new orleans off from every other place in the united states, is we're not a very economically significant area in terms of political power. we're very -- 380,000 people. but we are one of the most culturally significant places in the world. we have an identifiable culture. you know what the food tastes like and looks like, what the

music sounds like, what a carnival is, what a new orleans funeral is, new orleans architecture. and the idea that this whole thing could go, it was just like caring to -- terrifying to me. my wife, when we got married, she loves it, the sound, the fragrance, the church bells, the rumbling of the street car. sounds like no other place, but it is very, very fragile. environmentally fragile. politically fragile, culturally fragile. and i didn't know what but i just couldn't -- i was just in profound depression. we win don't in '07 and just like -- she was as much for it as i was, and i did not -- i

clawed, fought, schemed, plotted, probably a couple of things -- to get to washington. i liked it here. i love the parent, i love the parks, i love -- i have friends. i'm not a guy that -- i just wanted to go back home. i just had to. and it was so funny -- not funny -- the day we moved, is like the day that tim died. june 13th. and i was -- i put it in the book. i was in the car,, going to a grocery store, and al hunt called me and said -- i got the worse news you can imagine. it was almost like you want to leave? and it was a -- i kind of opened a book there.

but i really -- i think we were -- we look back and talk about it sometimes, like how -- some ways it's turned out great. the city is a great success story. now that it's all doing better, it seemed like a really cool and smart thing to do. we went there, if we look back, the -- moving our children, who were then very young, and like a place with a culture, it's not -- it's hard to break into it if you're a child. it's not the easiest place -- we have two girls and it wasn't the easiest thing -- one thing is, if you aren't there for what i call the engineering failure of 2005, which is katrina, it's like you didn't fight in the battle. you're a newcomer, and they did fine overall but it was some element of risk involved here.

and there was still stuff stacked up from the -- nowhere near to where we are today. so it is like you walk into a casino and you put $10,000 on black and i shows up black and you go, that was really stupid to do that, even though we won. thank god -- >> i hope that was a metaphor. while we are in washington, which we still do love, where we still have a home, where one of our girls came back to school on the grounds that, mother, you don't provide enough structure for me. now she is at a boarding school. i want to say something good about politics. if you're at rock bottom, which we were after katrina, you can have a kind of -- you don't have he the luxury of having the kind of disputes we have. you just have to come up with

solutions, and we literally -- mayor landrieu did not want to run, and james showed him how he could, and i said i couldn't support everything if he was going to do liberal business, but on these issues that were practical conservative applications, would be in the lead of three republicans in new orleans, and to watch politics and policy work, and work quickly, is such an inspiration. we think this sense of -- this loss of confidence in all of our institutions and the sense of the decline and all that, things can change fast if people want to change, and if you -- if people love -- want to protect something they love, which they did in new orleans, they -- we

went from 15 fee underwater to, by the time of the super bowl, we were number one. this is our best-worst year, with silicon valley south, under one entrepreneurial capital, on and on. but there is a way to make progress, and while i'm here i want to make a pitch about coastal restoration. y'all should care about coastal restoration, 40% of the seafood and 40% of the energy and 40% of your food comes up and down that mississippi and to the extent that the coast is eroding, the lan is eroding, is going to impact the economy of the entire country. so there's a lot of issues that we agree on politically, except for the eight-point underdog thing today. we like being on the saner side of things.

>> let's talk about something you're not on the same side of. cats. >> i just have to say this. the presence -- this is my motto. the presence of many cats is not proof of crazy cat lady-ism. i do take the point that cat hairs in the butter is not pleasant, but one day, i came down and my favorite cat -- i have about 12 of them, so -- cat named black cat -- it's hard to name cats creatively when you have 12. he was black. half his face was charred off. i said, what happened? and he was getting near the butter, and somehow the stove accidentally turned on and burned half his face off.

so, i -- instances of kitty pyromania in our house, and we have a few dogs and pet rats and birds, but most of them are rescued, and that's an important -- this is a good rescue place. a great humane society here. so, about animals, we have some animals and people who are having difficulty resocializing, you may remember in the dalai lama was here, he came to a domestic place and it was n street, battered women's shelter, where we brought women and battered women together, and have not since done a version of that program at walter reed, and it's so -- i have a larger interest in animals, and i'm going to agree with you that we should put a lid on the butter.

>> look, i could ride a horse before i could ride a bicycle. i raised a pig that won a blue ribbon at the 4-h. call me weird. i do not like animals in food prep area. maybe that's just some kind of a -- you know, cuckoo think, but what when i see a cat licking -- huh-uh. that turns me off. but i'm fine. i could still get on the horse today and -- grew up -- i had the best childhood you can imagine. when i was really young, my grandfather grew rice, and how you grow rice, it's nothing but mud. and water. and there's nothing better for a five-year-old, and be traipsing around in mud and water. >> he is not an antihero. he knows the animals -- they mean nothing to him. they're not allowed in his

office and doesn't know their names and he is like this, but everytime we have to go to the emergency vet, one time i heard him, he goes, why can't these bastards learn how to cross the street? he just has a -- doesn't get the whole animal kingdom. >> this question is for james. one question just for james, one just for mary. you decided to give up on working on u.s. elections. >> right. >> and only work on foreign elections. explain that decision. >> first of all, when president clinton won i was 48, so already -- and i just didn't want to be some guy out in center field having a fly ball hit me in the head. started going on and -- it's kind of hard to go back to that time, there's so much like -- is

clinton sending somebody in or what does this or that mean? and the real truth is, in the united states, once you become a famous person, you have to earn a living being a famous person. if you try to do a real living, it doesn't work. i've done 22 different countries, and -- but i like it. i'm getting a little -- last trip i tack was to indonesia, which was a good ride. i took that new york to singapore flight, which they just cancelled. i enjoyed doing that. but much more sort of limited now. but i didn't -- i'd run -- been really involved in u.s. politics for a period of time, and what i did was i was a campaign manager. i didn't have a firm. i didn't sell a poll or direct mail piece or tv spot. i just got paid for working 20

hours a day. and you couldn't -- it was a decision i made and look back on it and made some bad decisions in life. that was not one of them. the game passes you by. when we did the '92 campaign, the cell phone was as big as george stephanopoulos. [laughter] >> and so i'm reading this stuff about the social media and the big data and everything, and that's good. there's something to be said for overstaying your time. and it's nothing that -- you'll be remembered, and we have a common affection for sports, and there's nothing worse than to see a former great athlete,

trying to take another year or two out there. you got to -- there's a time for everything. a time for me to do it, and a time -- >> can i add to this -- not to butt into your question, but i think because there is a -- an emerging perception that people in politics, political operatives, are -- whatever, okay? well, when we got into it -- and i'm happy to be a woman of a certain age. why can't we say we're 60. i'm happy to be 60. we're empty-nesters. >> i wish i was 60. >> okay. so he is almost 60. very upset the girls are both gone. his life is over. i'm chopped liver, i guess. but in our day, you -- it

wasn't -- you didn't make money. when got married we had nothing. he had a bike i bought him. he never had a car. maybe he had a horse. i don't know. so since getting out of domestic politics, though, we are involved in politics, care about what it is the political system is trying to deliver. so, james, at my request and the state department's request, joined me in -- we had to do it in jordan -- to teach the iraqi women how to fight human rights in their constitution. we did ukraine together because right after the revolution, -- i didn't know the husband but the wife was for -- i think we did -- you do these things. you volunteer to do these things because freedom around the world

isn't sport. politics as a sport, a game, a career. a lot of people involved in it who are -- that's not why they're involved. i will say those women in -- those iraqi women did not understand a word that james was saying, except he said one thing that they got and they made t-shirts that said -- you finish the story. >> just thinking about it is -- the hardest thing in democracy is not having the first election. it's having the second. and the thing -- if you lose, you leave. i've always said this and i teach this to my kids. the most sacred secular event held in this country is when the former president leaves and gets on the helicopter and guess.

-- and goes. that's a big, big, big deal. bigger than you know. and that would -- the cab drivers from africa, they follow u.s. politics here more than you can imagine. oh, man, -- i said, why do you guys -- that do you find so fascinating about politics? because when somebody loses you leave. the only way they leave there, you get shot and leave in a pine box or whatever. so i see that a lot. one of my favorite stories about the foreign stuff is steve cornyn, an old friend of mine, asked me to meet with a man who was running for president of afghanistan. so we were talking, i called rich holbrooke, who was at the state department, and i said there is any problem with me and the u.s. working for this guy.

he said, james, this is the finest man i know. so then i did a little investigation. i said, richard, this guy is a fine guy. i know he can't -- i don't think he can pay my air fare to tell you the truth. he says, you're a member of the kennedy generation. you have to go. and i'm like, well, shit, i guess i got to go. i go to kabul, and stay in a guy's house and try to write a campaign plan, and so on the way houston he gives -- on the way out he gives me a rug, and two leaks later i got reimbursed for my air fare, which was not a bad deal. i didn't make any money but at least i wasn't out 13 grand for the tickets. >> now, you want to hear what we fight about? you would think a guy who is going to kabul, where his wife had been, all over afghanistan,

and an armored vehicle, with double snipers, would have asked me something about security? no. he is driving around in some little bus, you know, and ieds everywhere, and this is pretty scary when the traffic stops. you can get blown up. i'm like -- >> actually, the house -- totally blew his house up. it was pretty -- a difficult -- trying to write a campaign plan for afghanistan was really different. we got one -- a great guy, great experience. >> can't win them all. >> people say that they have lost races with political consultants and some people say

they never lost a race, we call those liars. >> mary, it's 1992. the election is over, and you don't have a job. you don't have much money. and you end up on what you call the first chick fight show, and you also right that the show was great until it became a hit. explain what you mean by that. >> i never wanted to be on tv. i don't like being on tv to this day. i kind of like radio. can i say the joke? i -- but when george h.w. bush, whom i adored, was losing -- this frequently happens on campaigns, nobody wants to defend. the rest start jumping the ship, and the worse the numbers got, the more i went out there. so i became the face of defense

of the losing campaign, and he became the hero of the -- ♪ don't stop thinking about tomorrow -- ♪ so not only did i have no job, i had no prospects because i was a loser. i had no money coming in. i had a mortgage, unlike him who had a murphy bed. i had -- 'ann kline and said do you want to da a tv show? i said i hate tv. she said you're good on tv. i said i'm atopic. anyway i had to pay the bills, and i didn't think anybody was watching us. it was wayne's world on estrogen well we did was have a bottle of

wine before the show and we'd just talk about whatever, and the next thing we knew it was -- this is before there was political tv. it was cnbc before cnbc was cnbc. whether i said was such a low-budget show, our furniture, lad to go in the hallway, pull in a table, we brought our own wine, did our own makeup, did our own hair, and all of a sudden it just became this cult hit. who knew? the reason we found out is because people started sending us furniture. and then the senators and congress people don't follow this stuff, but if their staffes do, so we started getting great guests, and then you have a hit and all of a sudden everybody gets involved and gives you --

you have to fix your hair and get different clogs and do interviews -- different clothes and do interviews. so i quit. >> my favorite moment of the show was tony was a regular guest, and mary and and jane were singing into hairbrushes and ton where was hurt because he didn't have a hairbrush to sing into. >> we were singing. ♪ going to the chapel and tony is like, where is my hairbrush? remember christoph? well, tony insisted on going there to get -- we didn't have hair and makeup. he went there and got his beard done, eyebrows done, hair done. so, i forgot about that. tony, if you're watching, you know it's true. >> i still take the point spread -- 22-22 this year, and i got san diego. so if san diego covers, the

ten-point dogs. i have again to the top of the mountain and peeked over it. i'll be 23-22 against the spread. the number of people that i run into in washington who said i heard your pick on tony's radio show. it's really stunning the kind of following, how people follow it here. i never pick against us but -- the weather is going at the about horrible. i can't think about 4:30 kickoff. >> we still have nationals tickets. never give that up. i love -- sports always been a big part of my life, and great because i'm home. i go to games, the pelicans and the saints. let's talk about something else.

>> well, let's good to my last question before we go to the audience questions. this isn't really from the book, but i have one political question. what is one piece of advice each of you would give to your own party that they're not doing currently, that would improve that party? >> well, i don't like doing tv but i'm on tv enough to not -- not saying this for the first time. republicans have to be republicans. they can't be lesser version of democrats. i grew up as a democrat on the south side of chicago. i became a conservative when i started reading and pays taxes. i know what the constitution is. i know -- i'm -- edmund burke,

we have a long history of what works and doesn't work, and good intent is not the equivalent of good outcomes. and why republicans can't in a full-throated way say what the alternative to good intention politics is, or call people who have empirically been successful, cuckoo birds birds d whacko birds and then turn around and be exactly for what they called the whacko bird. that's not going to work. what we need to do for the mid-terms -- and 2016 is going to be affected by what happens in 2014. it's always the case, and i think in 2014 we'll look at the records of a lot of governors who were elected in the 2010 minitsunami, and look at the records. it's not a party thing. look at what mitch has done in

new orleans, and look at what happens when you incentivize business by lowering taxes, having regulations that are understandable, equally enforced, balanced budgets, et cetera, et cetera. so i don't think we talk about that enough. i think we are too defensive about -- spend too much time defending straw men. the obama people, the democrats accuse us of hating women, and then we intend all our time saying, no, no, we really love women. that's a waste of time. okay? it's just not -- so we need to quit being so defensive about things that aren't true, and say what we really believe in, what really works. >> start by saying, unbelievable differential between economic performance on the democrats and

republicans in the last 60 years. it's not even close. so, i agree with harry truman. you want to live like a republican, which i do, then vote like a democrat. [applause] >> we have -- in my opinion, we have a -- might be terrible problem in this country, and it's been going on for a long, long time. and we chase it -- all of a sudden the deficit is going to kill us. it's not going to kill us. healthcare costs will kill us, didn't kell is. then energy dependence -- the thing we have been unable to do, and unable to do for a long time, is grow income. and we go and got every other thing we do and we chase

everything that comes and every kind of deal we can, and it's not -- where is the joint committee on income growth? where is the foundation that looks into this? where is the bazillionaire to say that 80% of the people in the country over a long period of time is stagnant? and i -- when they give banks credit, he said it, we know how to create wealth. we don't know how to distribute it. and so i think what the democrats should do is be very succinct, clear -- and we've done a lot of research and it's not overnight -- no one thing you're going to do to get incomes to grow again. there's some things you can do to help. and so we -- and this is just a -- i think that the emphasis on the argument about inequality misses the mark just a little bit.

because if you're -- your income hasn't grown in 20 years, it's not so much that the other guys whose income has grown 300%, it's yours hadn't grown. if yours grew 20%, that would be much better, and so it's not -- but i get back to it. should say, this is the assignment. this is the job that the president can easily say, look, we have an economic crisis, we had to deal with bank fall failures and a lot of things. now our charge for the future of this country is to somehow or another bring the prosperity across the great swath of this country, and the more we tell that story, and the simpler we tell that story, the better off we're going to be. and so everything that we do -- billness congress, speeches,

people talking, that should be the defining mission of the democratic party. [applause] >> and the last -- could quote a former democratic president, the era of big government is over. if we want to do what he is saying, we agree on this, it has to start locally, and up to the states. can't trickle down, if i can use that term. >> okay. >> there's no politics. >> now we're going to your questions. there's a microphone there. a microphone there, and i'll just alternate. >> hi, james and mary, thank you for what you're doing. what do you both think of ken starr now in retrospect?

and the other thing i want to ask you, when you were strategizing -- this is what pat and i were asking ourself -- and talking about campaigns when you're both involved, how did you protect the confidence? ever get broken? did you by accident convey to your team the strategy of the other person? and how would you protect that in your conversations if something needed to be done and then suddenly it's being conveyed to the other side. >> let me say -- i always admired ken starr but have not thought about him in years, and at the time of the whole recent unpleasantness, i just had my second baby and was post partum, and all i cared about was that my husband was out there defending a lie, and i said, how could you defend this lie? he said, sugar, it's -- if i did

something that stupid with a girl that young, i'd lie about it, too. so that's kind of as far as i want to think about that. as for the other larger issue of honor, integrity, i was -- 40 when we got married, he was 49. i've been doing politics since i was in college. i know i'm a conservative, and jekyll and hyde. there's mary matalin the beloved and dearest wife you'll ever have, mother of your children, then there's mary matalin atill la the hundred, and there's never been an issue. we have never, ever accidentally or on purpose -- we called it the burden of knowledge. even for something i don't care about, he says i'm not going

tell you because you don't need the burden of knowledge. we also have some physical constraints. i have my fox news room, he has is espn room. he has his own closet, his own bathroom, his open space, so we don't have -- there's never any fear of accidentally sharing any confidences, but in the larger sense, strategies are a secret. messages aren't secret, and if messages aren't secret, and the campaign that keeps their messages secret is going to lose. >> i think he is doing a heck of a job at bailiff -- i think he is doing a great job for the people of baylor and waco and i concur, i'm glad he is in waco. to go back to this -- people

remember that. i'll be honest. everything i've done in my life, the thing i'm most proud of-i was the first person out there defending bill clinton. not because i really do like him. because i was offended at the overstepping that went on, and i'll tell you, this is absolute true story. i'll -- during that time i was down in boca raton, giving a speech to a high-end republican, raspberry, chardonnay kind of crowd. and this was in early january of i guess 1999. so i -- woman stands up and says, mr. carville, i got a question. i saw you and your wife, beautiful wife, and two precious

young children, on "meet the press" during the holidays. >> i said, yes, ma'am she says, old are they? i said one is three and one is one. the said, this is my question. they're not a going to be little girls forever. they're going to grow up. and they're going to find out all of the sorry things bill clinton did and the things he did in the oval office, and disgusting, and they're going to find out how their daddy went out and defended him and called people names and they're going to ask you, why did you do that? i want to know what you're going to tell them. i said to myself, goddamn bitch! well, you have the right to ask the question. my answer is, i would say, girls, that's one time in your daddy's life he was a good friend and did a bad thing.

i thought i would forgive the bad thing and stick with my good friend. now, sometimes in your life, you're going to run across a situation where you have a good friend that does a bad thing. i want you to pause, think about it, and think about a good friend. the main thing, you're good girls and daddy knows that, and daddy knows sometimes in life even good girls do bad things. if that ever happens to you, the lesson i want you to take from this, you tell your daddy first. he'll be the first to forgive you. so, i -- look, it's over. history has rendered its judgment. the public rendered its judgment. for those of us who were there for it, we'll remember it -- i'm glad it's over and i'm glad that he is doing well. he is probably happier that he is there.

>> can i add, he is the best daddy in the world but when they do bad things, the first thing they say is, don't tell daddy. [laughter] >> mary, one thing you would change about governor christie's recent press conference. >> i was -- see, we don't talk about policy because if you're employed of part of it by day -- we agree on strategy. if i could have changed one thing i would have change the duration. and i would not have talked about my pajamas and then james -- and then after that, i

think what i said -- i have known kathleen parker's column is coming out. we were on the train coming back, and my astute intelligent was bfd. so, james thought about this for hours, and he had all kinds of strategies and the got to go on wolf and talk about it. take it away, james. >> a couple of things. first of all, the thing about a scandal that -- this is true in the lewinski thing -- everybody understood it. so it didn't -- everybody understands this completely. is it not a fixed answers kind of thing. this is -- my -- i was there -- what i would have done is not go to the mayor. i would have again to people of

fort lee and said, directly to them, now, -- and also the problem with this is, everybody is from a -- whatever we know now, we know we're going to know more. i mean, it's the nature of everything. and it's hard -- sometimes it's hard to get all of the kind of information out, but -- look, what he needs -- right now, think the best thing you do is, there's a federal investigation, let's wait until that comes out. and just shut down. and then people -- it's become a kind of standard thing, well, there's no reason to talk because there's an investigation and we can't say anything. and then if -- and finding criminality is one thing. so hopefully if you're a christian and the u.s. attorney comes back and says we're not going charge him with a criminal act, think it's all fine now.

but right now the more you say, the more trouble you're going to get in. >> his best idea which he just skipped over. he said christie should have got dressed in one of the toll booth uniforms and let people get in and out of fort lee. that's good idea. >> i would have worked the toll booth and have bridget ann kelly stuffing commodes at the rest stop on the turnpike. but people understand this. this is like -- and if you stop and actually think about it, you go, damn, man, they really did that? shut the bridge down? >> you can tell he has adhd? any doctors in the room? a little hyper. >> doing fine today. >> off his meds. >> what advice do you give to young people who are thinking

about getting into politics? >> honestly, there was a -- there's a chapter in the book, and i just wrote everything and then i was going to cut, cut, cut, and the publisher left it in. you're never going to be more idealistic than you are at this age. you can't help it. the beauty of age is wisdom but the terror is realism... fail. don't be afraid to do anything including dry cleaning, coffee, be fair, learn, take a mentor, don't be afraid to ask, people our age who have done it want to

teach you and think outside the box. we don't know about twitter. my best friend donna brazil's says we need to get a twitter account, if you are over 30 and like a glass of wine after 10:00 you don't need a twitter account. we need people like you and james teaches at tulane, we work with young people, we are so -- that is why we are so optimistic. you are a much better generations and we deserve. don't judge the current politics. bring your idealism to it. >> a lot of times -- i polel the. >> color lunchtime as all plate said this. one in christ do you have? you are you.

you follow your passion and make your way the waves of you want to. you cannot look at these 69 years old to came up in it the entire they different time. but what other great president of washington was sally smith who were learning disabled. in it looks like college. and a lot of those children had 30 disabilities but she would bring people in there was a big banquet, myself banquet, myself, an actress and another man who would raise a lot of monday and it was cool. we were glad to do it. i said how did he do want to grow up to be like us? one kid said no.

no. there is nothing wrong with you. do not aspire to be another person. be yourself. because if you try to be somebody else, you will fail. every time i have not made a fool out of myself other than me. i tell my young people it is not important what i think but only that you think. my job is to be provocative to get you, one of the things i decided i will cover this spring and i don't know what i take about it is the nsa data gap. it seems like there is a lot of information for somebody to have.

i teach better if we explore and bring people in and hopefully at the end i will have a better opinion on what i think about it. but what i'd do to my kids kids, they don't know if you are -l you are for the keys to a pipeline if you are m-z you are against it. they will have to educate they just don't know which ones. the idea is to think of both sides. that is my advice. he will not be successful been me. you have to be yourself to find out your passion and talent and weaknesses. don't be they both said no worries.

>> i you raising your kids to be republicans or democrats? do you have kids? is there a connection between what i say and what they do? if i could just get them to close the door. who would want kids -- if you don't want that? >> this is going to have to be the last question over here. sorry about that. we don't have time for more. >> thank you. the documentary the war room, turn campaign operatives into folk heroes, made a really full career, and the lot more people would like to be the hired gun who steps into the campaign and turns everything around. what do you think of the legacy of that?

>> if you really want to know, those things, we love penny blocker and them and that was a great film but you really want to know what it is light, boys on the bus, what it takes and richard ben cramer. it is not glamorous. .. it is hard. you have to love your guy. you have to love him. you have to love your team but it is not glamorous sandy will not make a lot of money. >> but that has just survived.

if you look at it remember the two things. there was no narrator. a unit the only thing that counted is that nobody said it was 1982 the presidential election with the democratic primary. but no one told you no barrier. nothing up here to help you. but to pull that off creatively, i have asked people what they like they feel it is what the campaign wants you to get. the reason did has survived so long they feel they get to see something that normally would not be available to them.

it was not a strategic or anything like that but that is why the film has survived. if you aren't going to have somebody make a movie about you, have a brilliant filmmaker. petty obviously was that. to come from a steady, did you see the american household? that was a good movie. [laughter] to that it carries it. but the house tottered we are to be here to have you turned out today and we are very proud of the book and glad that we could share this with you and we want to stake the press club said the bank and we are surprised to will cover amount to on this saturday

afternoon in the parade. one final. [applause]

>> the held to a website is mobile friendly you can comprehend -- access our comprehensive coverage the nonfiction books where you want, when you want and how you want. the new sites designed scales to fit any screen from the monitor on your desktop to laptop or smart phone whether at home, the officer of the go. you can now watch live coverage of washington. checkout our extensive video library whenever you want. cease period.org makes it easy to keep an eye on washington.

>> host: congressman ellison faq for being here. tell us about the district you represent in minnesota endure will on capitol hill 51 my district is also the fifth congressional district of minnesota, a place for fed is very diverse. people all over the world and people in america as long as there was. the largest urban indian population in the united states but rivals from russia, somalia comment on a traditional population from northern europe europe, sweden, norway of

course, the to to as part of the great migration north from the this up. it is a place where people start businesses, innovation happens every day. you can get any kind of food you want with a strong tradition of tolerance. there has been intolerance going without saying but this is where eugene mccarthy who was standing up against the war, no where it is the senator wellstone stomping ground his base of support really caver from my district in that is also paul ter mondale is from. as we recently learned as he lost his wife, we would pray

with them and keeps them in there were prayers but even walter mondale. >> host: on capitol hill, you are a:leader for the progressive caucus? >> guest: yes. also one of the five that the speaker relies on to count the votes. also a history and policy committee invited to services committee and a proud river of the democratic caucus honor to serve with everybody else. >> host: you are relatively new. g you talk about your colleagues why'd you write this book now? >> guest: you know, , after my colleague from york king decided he would use his prerogative of the homeland security committee to focus on muslim

radicalization, i went to chairman king. i know my age you talk about muslims who are radicals or violent radicals of the kind. but i ask you to not only focused on the muslims we have people like to receive mcvay and others in the homeland. he said no. i will do it that way but i will let you testify. this was a controversial decision in the way because i wetback to friends and advisers that i have been invited they said why would you dignify by participating? and others said get the held -- alternative point of view so i testified my testimony testimony, it a lot of attention because it talked-about a kid named

mohammed who lost his life 23 years old to read into the burton towers of new york died as first responders were trying to protect their own lives but this young men who was muslim gave his ultimate sacrifice it i finished testimony talking about him. i got all lily emotional in the that got a lot of attention then after that a friend named karen called me to say i am a publisher would you like to publish a book about your experiences as a muslim, first in congress, would you like to tell your story? initial response was i am not so sure but i thought tolerance and inclusion is

such a key part that it is worth telling that story so i decided to do it. >> host: you start off with the ancestry growing up in detroit. what was your childhood like and. >> guest: i grew up in a household with two parents. both have some other routes my mother is directly from louisiana. she is and also cooked and would cut off the table and would raise us with those southern values from louisiana. and my dad was born in black bottom detroit but his father was from georgia. so both parents are product of the great migration with numbers of african americans leaving the rural south to

the urban north. i of a product of that. my dad was a doctor called the believed education but also came upon the hard side of life ian to learn and taught us life does not give you excuses. he would say there is no mercy for the week if you don't want to keep up in to your homework the world has harsh consequences. if i called today he would tell me the same thing. we were raised that way but another was protective and affectionate who also had a fire in her belly. i was raised by two different people one was tough one was all about her kids and i am still lucky to have both of my parents. they are in detroit right now.

>> host: talk about your brothers. you all have graduate degrees? >> guest: the oldest does internal medicine in and takes care of the people love detroit. primary-care doctor. so he sees those that are the first people the first blonde that the doctor sees first then he went is a specialist but then my next older brother he has a law degree and practices law but rarely a baptist minister that is the primary occupation with a senior law, as a practice on this side of those they a pastor. then my younger brother toby in boston is a lawyer and runs his practice. in then my baby brother is a

lawyer in north carolina an active in democratic politics there. my dream is one day he will join me in congress but we will see about that. >> host: you mention your father is agnostic your dear mother is a catholic. talk to us about what role religion played in your home. >> guest: wall a dad was a religious skeptic. i believe he thinks there is a gaudy and would call himself a christian because but he believes of his personal energy and grew up with skepticism how he would see people manipulate religion so he is not much for that. blind mother goes to church on sunday a.m. wednesday night you'd active with the yizkor been much more after her kids grow up and left

home. but my mom got her rosary beads ian praise for us there are icons of mary around the house. they are to polar opposites my mother praise for my father and he offers prime medical device to live in the world for us. but in the middle i came not been catholic schools but i always thought this is not of the faults of the people who tried to educate me but my perception in to see it as a series of don'ts. i had a spiritual yearning but not religiously involved as a teenager even i went to the old boys catholic high school.

i was open and searching. when i got on campus that wayne state it worked for the eighth and the rest is history. >> host: there was an anecdote about your conversion and how you stumbled upon it. >> guest: yes. i read bill cutbacks as a teenager and i was a feeling of mohammad italy. in my mind is long in muslims were people who would fight for justice. but i did not know anything about it. one day i was studying with a friend in and he ended the session to say i have got to go. where you going? , and go into muslim prayer. okay.

he invited me so i went and i saw all the shoes outside. the end everybody sitting on the floor and i also noticed folks there who were white, black, asian, arab, e ven let you know, . i like that. then the preacher talking about inclusion how we are all from one season of he biddies. we're all united that way. i got intrigue didn't i ended of converting to islam of. >> host: after you finished college you leave detroit and full of minnesota. in the book q said you felt as though this so the is a place you could make a difference but not detroit? >> guest: uk and make a difference in detroit but

the perception of a 21 year-old. i n50. not from the perspective i have now. but from where i was then i needed a change of scenery. what i saw was the 21 year-old guys leaving reinstate with every another day the idle plant shutting down the political culture was like you have to be there for a long time although in the betty conserve at any age but the leaders in the establishment were longtime servers. but when i got to minnesota in steve the political culture was more open. not focusing on big full-service but what can you do?

that is how i perceive to the difference. i was active on campus at way in state and went to minnesota. i found myself in a leadership position as the black law students association there were those who wanted the to sit of the board. it just felt more of the environment where they wanted people to participate. where'er us detroit no shortage of problems. it just see the political environment with those that were there had all the answers if you know, what i mean. but it is my home town. minneapolis is my adopted home town now but i am

grateful to detroit and weld love to see it do well and minneapolis to weld. >> host: before congress you served several terms in the state legislature but wrote to your faith was not an issue until your congressional brian. why is that the case? >> guest: it took me by surprise. suddenly running for congress all of a sudden becomes in issue. i had my prayer leader come to the state legislature to offer opening prayer as we do for congress every day and i had been fasting for ramadan. every betty do i was muslim but nobody cared. but the reason it got such insurance is because in congress there is a specific role with foreign policy

coming national security cover of "war and peace", and so the areas where the united states was addressing see tumultuous environment and where they were misled. in congress only a few years before of plot to attack the united states. we were in the midst of a war in iraq which i opposed by the way. those surveyed cannot grasp -- congress different. somebody said it is like japanese running for congress after pearl harbor. you could imagine somebody would not see the person as a person but as a member of the group. i take that is why people got excited in defrayed and abusive even.

>> host: in your book you mentioned the million man march. and one of the organizers was louis farrakhan. you are critical of both him in because the nation of islam in the book. why? >> guest: i would to a knowledge people come out of prison or on drugs who have benefited by that. so i want to it acknowledge we should never take any credit away but i guess i was looking for a greater amount of direction direction, involvement, after the march. if you had to billion mineral of that volume in the dignity more in the

right after for action but while there were policy prescriptions that carried them on, it just seemed like from the standpoint nothing. i found that a disappointing year end and abdication of leadership. but i thought that was a list opportunity. i tend to believe we need to draw people into action. do you want to talk about like but to organize around the agenda that will improve their lives preaching in a room or talking about other

worldly type of stuff. at the end of the day i have a clear bias to address things that are directly negatively impacting people and i found a call was made with no follow-up. but the end of the day cover that march inspired me to seek a braha if we could kick that level that we needed cover what we could to develop a home placement. what could we do about the disparities of education in gave me a sense of possibility. i am grateful to the march

but i do think that the execution and afterwards was not there. >> host: what was that lack of execution in the to your awakening? >> guest: i thought to myself will this be, what will happen? when it became clear it was nothing but what i will do is get even more active also a part of the process to be effective with a greater number of equal justice for every american. but it is long we are tied in a the quran that god created humanity from a single pair to make us into a different but i don't have

use for a philosophy that one is above another even if i am and the groups that is favored. i don't subscribe to that thinking. that is another issue. but at the end of the day we need him been a quality, and i a.m. this bill veeck said don't want to have to defend or support just because i am muslim. >> you can look at the issue of my status as a muslim to act like you can ignore it committed is my individual and private business, or you

can say if my colleagues need information what is what is or perspective to deal with the community i will embrace that because this country is about liberty and justice for all. put to improve on the idea so that is what i have done. rather than flee from the situation, a goal toward it. so i talk to my colleague king he offered to let me testified that is why i go to other members in congress to discuss public-private and other plays with the issue of inclusion opposed to bigotry.

i have taken it on. part of it is my personality. i tend to step into is a breach offering for them for help than i can but i can let things handle themselves >> host: one of your colleagues in that minnesota of delegation michelle bachmann accused you to have ties to the muslim brotherhood. that has been made very public but at the same time you say when you see each other you are very cordial. how to reconcile? >> she and i have some serious disagreements from democracy, voting, how the economy should be operated

orem's the role of religion but we could 90 more different, a day and night but it is not personal. i don't know. i think a lot of people who watch and hear the fireworks with the political clashes may be under the impression there is animosity. baby. but the reality is there are substantive differences, not personalities. i don't have any problem shaking the hand of a colleague that i disagree with horror -- or get along

with i believe you should talk to those you have disagreements but those in to watch congress across the country should know that it is not personal animosity but different values to believe systems. >> you dispute the perception that congress is dysfunctional but you also write explain the difference as to what democracy is messy and is a system that all voices have an opportunity to go in the direction of the city or the county to have the opportunity to play in. sometime those points of view clash as we get to the impasse position.

that is where we get stuck but what is the alternative? there are tort reforms to get the money and out of politics. we need to have redistrict jmb politicized so the state reflect the will of the people as opposed who draws the line. people and lead to vote. but at the same time i believe democracy is supposed to be raucous. somebody said the clash of ideas is the sound of freedom. right before the civil war congress was dysfunctional then also not to have

extreme inequality it is hard to move the agenda as 90% what background checks for gun ownership congress will not move. huge majorities when increase of minimum-wage your -- but congress will not move. but america is polarized so congress is to. we have to continue to work these problems out but i don't mean to say it is not having problems of operation but i read i am optimistic to move forward. if we staying gauge and reach out we will work ourselves out of the polarization. >> extensively with a member of congress come aziz congressional the bay of the

places you have gone coed that means. how does that feel with new look for information but people ask you how can america help us or what can you do about that? >> guest: that is pressure but it is an honor to make friends for your country. i have to increase the rule ian and a lot of people living in outside the united states they hear about it comes to see its cover reid about it but how much do they know? some cases a lot or not much. if you are from a country where one person makes decisions for the whole country as a ruling oligarchy it may be strange

to hear that comes out of the u.s. congress you bake it represents everyone but it doesn't. i find myself interpreting what the u.s. does. i was in egypt before the recent military takeover. of so why a did you support mubarak or morsi? i said we will support who you put up. we cannot take your head of state. then i tried to explain we're not all-powerful. as a citizen of another country have agency with the direction of your own country it is important will

to make and to play when i am called i do with t-72 often play the same role with your constituents? >> guest: yes. we do have a lot of new americans from all over the globe. if you take a new immigrant from syria or for that matter come in zimbabwe where they have difficulties with the path to the nation he will call you can criticize the government and must access the elected official and now is your right to. the capital is your ears.

put too attractive of the basics. that is its. i enjoy it? >> but connects the title to those things that people in america can relate to a1 "my country, 'tis of thee" i remember on the cold january day 2009, when barack obama was standing out there to raise his hand for the oath of office for the 44th president. i remembered aretha franklin sang that song. i was swept up in the moment to feel like but i looked

out on the mall. i looked at the capitol. i thought about what happened endeth the other end 1963 u.n. might -- martin luther king invoked the same words. and hal at that time for the foreseeable future but then barack obama would be elected president i was standing there thinking about a song from many years before the alternative version of "my country, 'tis of thee" the abolitionist approach in the 1830's 1830's, stronghold of slavery.

they wrote a song with the same music but criticizing the slave system. i thought feted as between britain this year king is people who tried to expand democracy or keep the benefits of democracy to only their group? the country will go in the direction that the most people pulled it. we dare not let the people flew operate on the basis of fear operate on the basis of scarcity or me or mind or a us. i do not stop we have to always be pulling "my

country, 'tis of thee" in the direction of sweet land of liberty for all. you get with you are willing to give with energy and resources to make this a more perfect union because i do believe america has great things to offer the world has a muslim you cannot practice is lomb anywhere in the world more freedom than in america may be as free but not free error. europe for switzerland they passed laws to block the minarets. actually i don't agree but in america they don't but in france it is the religious

association. in a country like turkey that is majority muslim, the religious expression was banned from the public square. also tunisia but what about saudi arabia or new york? you are religiously lined up with politics? then you are not. if it is iran your now will come to be soon the or the shia complaint they cannot have rights. or even to practice their faith as they were shipped. my point is in america are you can be christian anytime you want. catholic, lutheran catholic, lutheran, methodis t, evangelical, a jewish jewish, orthodox, conservati ve, , islam, you don't have

to practice any religion at all. it is a wonderful things that we have to practice as you please but it is not guaranteed. you have to protect and defend it to prepare your right to practice means defending the other person's right to defend there's. so the only way to go forward congress shall pass notes law establishing a state religion. . .