the midst of the bush years will recognize the plot of it can't happen here. i loved reading philip for the most part. this was one of his worst novels. it just doesn't work. .. second term of yornlg w. bush, new american law brought out a new printing, and newspaper columnists and bloggers and pundits draw on the books authority take over, bush saw as yet another down home strong man, never specified the first one. some of you know, an unchallengeable revelation for as bush was a fascist as you know was an unchallengeable revelation for some people even today. pointless to argue about it

though sometimes i bring up just to annoy people. one element of the it can't happen here that relates to the president. he never specifies what his alternative is. what he implies is what is needed is an oligarchy of good people. not so different from the new samurai. how these people are selected, but you have to replace democracy with an oligarchy of good people. how this is to be done, not much to say. when you read or listen to people around the obama administration, very similar to their view of the world, very similar to their view of the world with one important difference which i won't go into now. pickup in question and answers.

let me stop with that. i have gone on too long. what time is it? of good. i have been around too long. sorry. [applause] >> fred siegel has agreed to take your questions. [inaudible conversations] >> i am always intrigued by the antagonism of intellectuals to capitalism. the persistent threat.

i wonder is it because capitalism stands for a source of power that doesn't recognize what the intellectuals are selling which is their intellect? or how would you explain it? >> capitalism does recognize their influence. the writings of f. scott fitzgerald, sinclair lewis, they explode in the 1920s. they are richly rewarded by the society they despise. it has to do with the following. however much attention they get they think they deserve more. and the reason they deserve more is egalitarianism is like asset on their skin because egalitarianism suggests their vote is no more important than anyone else's vote. if you go to john stuart mill and, much i admire and much i don't. his admiration for the french revolutions of 1831-1848 do not

stand up well. however, he argued for multiple balance for people like himself. they should be compelled to vote like ordinary people. this is a longstanding -- insoluble problem. you can flip it around talking about low information. it is not a reasonable question. a lot of voters i am thinking of my hometown of new york, lot of voters, people realize bill deblasio was elected by a record low turnout. the turnout hadn't been that low since before women could vote. not as if there was a great confusion of enthusiasm. this city now is entirely in the hands of low informational lawyers. not that it is not a problem but that is not the problem intellectuals are talking about. one last point on intellectuals

and capitalism. not just capitalism intellectuals don't like but democracy. it is democracy. whether it be the love affair of intellectuals with kaiser, not a lovely fellow, i am curious, any people -- anyone read the john roll, the british historian? he may not be well known in america. he is very good on seeing how much of hitler and nazi is is anticipated in the kaiser. it hasn't been discussed and part of the reason it hasn't been discussed is the art this messenger view of the world, simply triumph, the 20s were a horrible time, society was redeemed in the 30s and we

better understand that. >> michael. >> the washington examiner. congratulations, fred. one name you mentioned is different from all the others. i wonder if they paid much attention to him at all or saw him as an opponent, toqueville. of francophile and the compton, i have the feeling he is something like the opposite of what toqueville with some reservation admired of the america he saw in the 1830s. >> exactly right. comp comptewanted sanctimony and socialism imposed by a central power. wanted extreme central -- that is what liberalism has represented ever since, centralization under an

enlightened belief. so compte had no use for toqueville whatsoever considered him beneath him. i don't recommend anyone read him today. unless you are interested in this. it is very interesting because it is kind of -- socialism pre marks and a great deal of what survives of socialism -- let me talk over this a second over h. g. wells. you would not be well aware of this because little has been written about it but h. g. wells was a great admirer about the utopian socialist experiment. new harmony for instance was something he studied closely. in upstate new york, he studied closely, h. g. wells's socialism derived in part from the american utopian socialists. welfare -- his father was a

cricket here who never made a real living, the family thought about moving to america and new the did so. hd will always thought he had one leg in america. toqueville was unknown to these people. had he been read he would have been seen as hopeless. there is a great short essay by d. h. lawrence, how beastly the. what --bougois. all about how they are subhuman, not metaphorically. it is this attitude that gets picked up and sometimes in the

case of h.l. mencken literally. >> i had trouble fitting what i thought was my understanding of liberalism or progressivism in with what you said. at one point you used the phrase some of these people had the sense america was the worst of all possible places. if you think of what happened a few years before the period you were talking about woodrow wilson signed into law a law against child labor and was struck down and later in the new deal the child labor was -- not that liberals and progressives thought that american society was contemptible or incapable of being redeemed. they thought was capable of being improved. your view, it seems, think back to cuba at humphrey. hubert humphrey would never say american society was contemptible. he wanted to improve its.

>> hubert humphrey was also against affirmative action. there are no fuhrer 3s in america today. liberal long ago. let me go to my point. you missed one of the central points of my argument that there is a break between liberalism and progressivism. progressives believe america can be redeemed and they very much believe in america. liberals break with that over woodrow wilson. they see in wilson the embodiment of progressivism and want to break with it. they want nothing whatsoever to do with it and nothing whatsoever to do with the massive american society. they are not progressives. i hope you read the book. who are they? the people i described. they want a new aristocracy to govern the land. >> thank you very much for the

presentation, look forward to reading the book. is obama a liberal or progressive? at times he seems to not to reveal his contempt for the people when he says they cling to their guns and religion and antipathy towards immigrants but at times it is all about forward and improvement and all that. >> the term progress of came back into use because the term liberal becomes such a pejorative. uva humphreys of the world died off and were replaced by the george mcgoverns and much worse. i would describe the president as a liberal. when he belongs to reverend wright's church one of the things reverend wright preaches against is middle-class, preaches against middle-classes, avoid the middle-class virtues.

exactly how do we get to middle-class without middle-class virtues? someone has to explain this to me. contemporary liberalism, let me make a leap, the closing chapters of the book, anticipate the election in new york city. i am not going to promote the book that way because no one will read it. the election in new york city, put into power every major office, people very close to international union and 1199 health care workers combined. bill deblasio, the new mayor, the new speaker of the council, both work for 1199. you can go on down the list. one of the ways liberalism

changed is when it lost the american majority, and this is a section i call the philosophical crisis of american liberalism, it was in the wilderness and discovered a new middle-class, public-sector union, public-sector unionists like liberals because like liberals they want to extract from the state. private-sector unions, one of the key -- don't know how many people follow chris christie and i have no interest in defending chris christie. the way chris christie has succeeded to the degree he has is by working with the president, the state senate, stephen swanson, head of the steelworkers -- ironworkers union because as a private sector unionist, he wants a viable economy and new jersey economy is dead in the water. he oppose private sector unions. what private sector unions like 1199 one is extraction. that is what governor walker was

dealing with in wisconsin. there is no interest in growing the economy at large. if you show me where obama's policies designed to grow the economy i want to know about them. liberalism becomes deeply connected with public sector unions. it recreate skid self in that sense by bringing public sector unions. and a corn is closely connected to sciu. it still operates just the way -- is not doing the registration anymore. is still a very effective voter turnout operation for liberal democrats. >> right here.

>> what i the end goals of liberalism, this new aristocracy? to have socialism without any voting where they are in control of all the resources? a sort of communism without any party? not sure, they don't like any threats, it seems like. capitalism is bad, democracy is bad, religion is bad. global warming is good because they think they control it. not sure what they want to get. >> a couple years ago, we wrote a piece for the weekly standard talking about obama's authoritarian tendencies, the tendency to rule through executive order and we will see a lot more of that especially if he loses the upcoming election. we are going to see some really nasty conflicts because he will try to govern without congress. the thing about obama and my wife who is sitting in the front row is from chicago.

people from chicago have a lot to answer for. they knew obama was a fraud way back when. jan would bring me to my sister-in-law, my sister-in-law like my sister, joni's parties in chicago and all these people knew obama, this former tax attorney, and knew him rather well and i ask what are his accomplishments? nothing. he has no qualifications, why are you supporting him? it will be very good for chicago. money will be coming in here. why should i oppose this? that is the chicago way of thinking for which i criticize my wife heartily. what he has done is bring chicago style politics to america, america writ large. what is good for the machine, what is good for people who pay the machine off, he is not

opposed to capitalists who haven't paid off. i am not speaking as a historian but as a guide slapping his lips. i wouldn't call it gangsterism but it is not very appealing either. >> you made woodrow wilson as a seminal figure. i didn't hear you recount the exact position of his or acts of his that liberals found an anthem not. >> prohibition was one. another was the ban on german, use of german language, sale of german foods, wilson's tolerance of attorney-general mitchell

palmer for the america protective league repressed german-american this. it is not well known but there were fights in the streets of american cities, milwaukee, chicago, between german americans and polish americans and non german-american. it got ugly. what they dislike about wilson was this repression. not necessarily directly from the executive office but accountants by the executive office. as many -- in the front row too. >> my name is pete chase. referring to one of the answers you gave earlier tonight, you said what the rules despise is egalitarianism, in particular democracy, because it empowers the average guy in a way they

find deplorable. i am having trouble squaring that with calls on the left, it is always for more democracy. the seventeenth amendment, the call for the abolition of the electoral college. they are always calling for more direct democracy. >> to with the word direct. that is crucial. they want more direct democracy to create a more directly centralized society. so that when you control the center you control the entire society. what they are opposed to is republicanism, self-government on the local level. responsibility on state and local level. and a lively, fertile congress which is certainly something we don't have. when you say they are in favor of direct democracy they are

opposed to the electoral college only to use when they lose. other years they are quite happy. i wouldn't take this too seriously. this is something that is tactical just the way harry reid's decision to abolish the filibuster is tactical. is that an example of direct democracy? would be a very good example of direct democracy because it precludes debate and discussion. that is the purpose of the filibuster. it is deeply anti constitutional. deeply anti constitutional. not in a literal sense but in a structural sense of the spirit of the constitution. >> one question over here that i missed? go ahead. >> you have been talking about the writers of the time. these riders, writers of the whole lost generation used to be the biggest writers.

when i was in school they were the people we were given to read when we took american literature. now largely gone. why do you think that is? >> no one reads american literature. they're reading theory. academia as we knew it, i assume you are roughly my age, in your 30s. people in college don't read. i taught for many years at cooper union, a very -- a very small school. everyone is on full scholarship. the top 1% or 2% of american college students. one of the reasons i retired was my students didn't read any more. it was pointless. how could you talk about things? they were good kids, hard-working, nice kids but they simply didn't read. not just not reading american literature, they are not reading anything. as for these writers, yes,

through the 1970s and 80s i would say, at the very top of people's list of people you had to read f scott fitzgerald, you couldn't be considered a college graduate. what it takes to be considered a college graduate now is not much. >> question up here. >> t t c examiner. i was figuring out how you would -- the democratic party as a whole because it is kind of hard, if you project -- the bougeois values, major democratic policies, politicians

in the past century. the systems of this profile. >> think about truman for a minute. truman was an old-fashioned democrat. elon musk to every known club in his home town in missouri. he was a back slapper. arthur/injured -- arthur schlesinger despise kerri truman. they wanted him off the ticket in 1948. they wanted to induce eisenhower to run even though they had no idea what eisenhower represented but he wasn't truman. truman was too much a normal guy. what they like, think about it, kennedy's father joe kennedy was not a pleasant guy in world war ii. robert kennedy worked for joe mccarthy. what was so appealing about this? what was appealing about this

guy was he wasn't ordinary. didn't come out of the middle-class. she represented a cut of something being a cut above, elevating american taste. the big change, the addition of public-sector unionism to liberalism. liberalism as we once knew it, an intellectual force, collapsed with mcgovernism. and reagan, the republicans have three electoral victories in the 1980s but liberalism reconstruct itself in the 1990s when labor reconstructs itself around public-sector unions. that is why i say what happened in new york is an expression of this larger trend. and the stern made it into the force it is and he said, i quote him in the book, quite correctly

the sciu is the most powerful political force in the united states. he is right. we will have to deal with this in the future. >> join me in thanking fred siegel. [applause] >> fred will be signing books outside. for the c-span audience you can buy it on amazon.com. [inaudible conversations] >> we will continue the conversation on books tonight on c-span2's in depth. we will talk to author and professor bonnie morris, author of women's history for beginners and revenge of the women's studies professor. that starts at 8:00 eastern.

>> apple computer co-founder steve wozniak talks to students that was a university in cambridge, mass. to talk about technology and education. discussed his experiences in apple and steve jobs and his efforts in developing the first personal computer. this is 30 minutes. [applause] >> since you very much. i will go home and tell my sister they named the university after you. my sister lesley. everybody was young thinking oh my gosh, will i have ideas i can turn into important, valuable things. will i start companies and the entrepreneurs like avalanche facebook and google and twitter and all these little companies that start that way, microsoft. a lot of us started -- so much

of a passion what we wanted to do was we started this company without college degrees. i had three years university worked on, great designer and we started the company. after ten years i took the opportunity to go back to college, my name was very well known but not my face so i enrolled under the fake name rocky raccoon club. that is what it says on my diploma. i wanted to be able to tell my kids what school i went to. not that i dropped off and that is what we felt like doing. computers, the computing products of today, down to the mobile internet devices, smart phones and tablets are just taking over everybody's mind. they are coming closer's than any product ever before in history. it used to be might some -- might get some favorite gift at christmas, have to sleep with it for a few nights. we carry our phones and use them

it is almost an appendage of our body, you just don't want to give a. you live your life through the crisis nowadays. the apps people are creating, hundreds of thousands of apps created by young technical guys in universities, young people, do every little thing in the world for you and some, not that many, financial hints that they are changing our life so much psychologists said we measured responses, physical and mental responses in human beings that are similar to falling in love with people with our devices now. it used to be we would say we love macintosh computers but even deeper, closer than that. it is getting there. why? over time, we start with personal computers that were a bit like computers, very different, they didn't have ugly front panels that only a geek could understand and nobody knew what was involved. they got down to human keyboards

humans could type on and video screens to see what is going on. animation, games, the voices got better and more natural. over the evolution from personal computers to our modern mobile internet devices every step along the way, smaller, closer, a little more personal and a little more realistic, genuine, sounding like real human voices. graphics on a screen that looks almost like a movie. that is what we make now, c g i in movies so they get more like humans. today's smart phone is funny. will humans have sensory motor systems, a certain number of census, a sense of touch. are devices act as though they have a sense of touch, we have a sense of motion. our inner ear can tell that little little accelerometers ship in the device can tell which way they are moving. we have years, they have a

microphone. we have eyes, they have a camera. they are not on 24/7 like we humans are but part of them is on. they have gps. you know what that means? my cellphone knows where it is in the world. when i wake up in the morning i often say where am i today? i don't know. they are ahead of as. does have a sense of smell. we get to ask questions, don't have to think how to get an answer to something. i run this and tap there and get efficient at it. i just want to save a thought, speaking and get an answer. i don't want search engines anymore. i want to answer engines usually. i have a lot of questions about the world. how far from boston to san francisco or what the population of boston or anything like that and old-time all the long, on my iphone using google voice on android phone and getting the answers. ..

computers successful and successful, we were. we had one basic product when we started the company we didn't

start with an idea here's something we are going to do. there were ideas about how computers would affect society. they influenced me. i was at a club that grew about 58400 members and a stanford professor and berkeley professors would talk about how important it was for these machines to do things that would help people relate to other people to communicate. they would help education. it was simple ideas that my gosh, a student could get a question and answer it and be told right or wrong area you you learned for example with animals if you are studying psychology in the instantaneous reward of punishment is important. it has to be right away. you can't wait five minutes and punish them or they won't know what you're punishing them for. kids are going to get better educated. we are going to use 100%. i sat in my club meetings thinking zero no, in a few years

all these kids are going to be smarter than us and we will be out of business. it didn't quite go that way thankfully. [laughter] we talked about how the young person that knew how to use a computer, i have a problem. i type in a program to do some calculations and it might solve it. it might be a puzzle or game, i want to store some things. things. that person was going to take the computer they had, maybe they built it themselves, they were going to take it into work where they had million-dollar computers during the company financedoing the companyfinancee their 10-year-old kid write a program in basic language and it was going to print out the financial results of the company much faster and much better than the million dollar machines. i felt so good about this, mike the little guy is becoming and how word and a master of his own faith and is an secondary to the company. in my life i never wanted to be one of these powerful people more important than others.

i wanted to see somebody on the street and strike up a conversation with whoever they are. it's the way i am today. it's a casual approach and you don't find that very much in the united states. sometimes in other countries you do. i stayed that way. we started apple with one product we knew was going to be huge. i designed a computer that became known as the apple two. it had an incredible advances but usually they were ways i had worked all my life from when i was in elementary school and trite come up with ways to design things my own and then get a better and better than any other human being and my approach is what does better mean it means using fewer parts and thinking out-of-the-box. thinking out-of-the-box means if you have a lot of engineering books that say here's how a certain type of things -- engineers to be certain i type of product. product. here is how color television is generated in the united states,

a whole bunch of language with multipliers in the circuits and calculus and it costs a thousand dollars and it can put color television on a color display. maybe you put a little number like seven into this thousand dollar board or $2,000 board and it will put purple on the screen if you put a seven. and somehow, i don't know, we are crossing over from the old analog world which is like reality to the digital world where everything is stored as members. and i thought out one night when i was so tired, almost asleep -- i had been up for four nights working on a project -- your mind drifts like when you're falling asleep or waking up and in idea popped in. i know how televisions work in the animal world but in this digital world where a 1 dollar chip, a 1 dollar chip with a number in it could put that number out on one buyer and if it went into the television set at the right speed and time,

that television is going to think it's purple. a thousand dollar board got replaced by a 1 dollar chip. never ever had this been done ever since the apple ii computer but we brought colored computers when no one thought it would happen. this is like bringing color to the movies. it was the first machine you could have video games. the first time video games could be on a computer, animated. the arcade industry has been started and had a lot of machines that were black-and-white and they were all hardware. it wasn't software on it wasn't a program. hardware would take a year to design a game like pong. and because of an idea that i have to, we take the tv set and make it exactly the same as the computer. the same memory. a computer can change memory a million times a second, today it is like billions. but that turned out many million

numbers per second were a million dots of color on the screen changing every second which meant animation was popular, games were possible and everything. it was a part of my life, whatever i did i hav had to ince an element of fun. at hewlett-packard we were building the hottest in the time to read this handheld calculator was changing the world. it costs about 2,000 of today's dollars, expensive. every single engineer and scientist have to have one within ten years. the cycles were no longer sold. they had been replaced. they heard i was a great designer and they hired me and i thought how wonderful. i didn't have a college degree but i have the ability to do the work, so i got a job. nowadays i wouldn't be hired at apple because you have to have this experience and classes you take and work that you've done before. sometimes it doesn't show the kind of person that can take a project based never done in their life and produce a solution to solve it.

that is the big key to my own success at apple. one, i had no money so i had to try to design things with the fewest parts and lowest-cost was good. and i'd never done it before so whatever way people did in the past i didn't care. i did the absolute best possible define anyone could do today. we had this product, the apple ii computer. we knew we were going to sell a lot of it. we had to raise money. steve jobs and i had no money, no bank account, we didn't have rich families. i had a job at least at hewlett-packard. steve didn't even have a child. we had no business experience. we haven't taken courses at a university or anything. so we were coming out of nowhere and we needed money. we needed this computer. the first order would be a thousand. when i worked at hewlett-packard by the way, i wanted them to build this machine. i love my company. i was going to be an engineer at

hewlett-packard my entire life. i begged them and showed them how it works and they turned me down five times. five times they turned me down. but it's good because they would have done it wrong. they wouldn't have needed a nice fun to use machine. a computer is a fun thing for the home and they would have needed a boring device for engineers, so all the better. we had to go looking for money and we did find an investor. he believed that this market of computers in the home was going to be one of those huge things that happens once a decade and a company in five years grew a billion-dollar company or half a billiohave abillion-dollar compi thought the more success you have in life already, the bigger numbers you can top, but it's all bs. he was right. he knew what he was doing. he didn't know what computers were going to do for people. we had this one machine, the apple ii, color computing, graphics, games, the most beautiful machine ever. we decided the company should be

market driven. the computer came from an engineering background. all iid is, hardware, software, no other engineers worked on it. i couldn't even afford computers to type my programs into. so i wrote my programs on paper and then i wrote the ones and zeros that they would translate if i could afford to type them into a computer. anyway we started with this one machine for the first ten years. this is all the way up way past the time you see in movies. you don't see it accurately at all. that is the only success we had for all the time. i'm going to have to questions and answers. i'd like to hear questions from you about the past, the present, the future. any questions on your mind, anything you think what you know you were friends have done or experiences in school. i almost got my degree in psychology instead of engineering when i went back. i loved studying psychology.

at one time i thought to myself i should have been a psychology major because i had a little tv jam in the first year in college and the friend would whack the tv and it would go good and they would sit someone to the tv every night and whenever it went bad he had to whack it or turn the dial or move his body until it worked and i could get people to climb up on chairs with an antenna to get it to work. so i had a lot of fun like training rats. >> hello, mr. wozniak. i am a senior graduating in may. i was wondering, here at lesley university we value justice and knowing that you have worked on the philanthropic efforts around the world what you see as the key to reaching out to poor children to equip them so that they can become innovators and participants in the modern society or excuse me, economy? >> when we thought all of this success, i was the one who hadn't done it for that reason.

and so i didn't start a lot of uc owns with my money. i didn't want to be in that category. i cared so much about education when i was young i told my father i will be an engineer first and teacher second. i valued it so much. i wanted to be a fifth-grade teacher all my life and i paid attention in psychology and everything thinking about the mind develops. i did go back and i taught fifth grade and sixth through ninth grade and teachers. it was all secret with no press allowed. i wanted individual attention grabbing a student. i didn't want to write programs. apple wanted me to put out cds how to write a computer. no, i want to touch individuals and see them later in life. you give up your self. it was easy to give money in those days when schools didn't have computers and there were phrases like today is met day and every school is going to try to have a network of computers set up in their school and so i found that it was easy to give computers to my local schools.

but the trouble is you have a lot of money that isn't getting anything important. you give yourself among your time, which is why i decided to teach. i thought the technology was going to drastically change how smart people work when they came out of school, how well they think, doing a lot of critical thinking in all of this. and you know, oddly enough, we couldn't do what we do now with today's technology with the internet and access to all the information. it's almost like we have a brain on our keyboard to answer the questions for us now. we could never have done that before it all happened. yet i don't see people coming up with greater thinking abilities, you know, greater accomplishments in schools because they haven't changed the school system. a school system has its own limitations and i don't think that will ever change until we have one caring less marked teacher or student, and we can't afford it. and one thing -- a lot of schools -- i worked in the

school districts very closely with words. when teachers want to get paid more money to teach larger classes, that's not necessarily better education. do schools get enough money? where do schools get their money? because we consider it a right, everyone is entitled to an education, the money has to come from government. how does it come from government? according to vote. do students get a vote? no, they get no more votes than a family of two. and as far as school money goes area that is just wrong in nature, and so a family of five should get five votes somehow. that would help schools. more money doesn't necessarily help. where i live, california is the lowest in the nation. lowest class size. we were so far down the list we were 50th in classifieds and mississippi was far from us and it had to do with a regulation that got past a long time ago. but if you lived in a community like cupertino where apple is,

it is known for its high value education. you could have a vote of the people in the city to have more property taxes. so more money for schools. and i paid the expense to send postcards to everybody in cupertino to vote for this and we got 64% of the vote, so it failed because the proposition that you needed two thirds and only one third have been in school and in the next year in cupertino it failed. we passed it in cupertino past it. they had a little bit more money in the schools. you know what i see in those cities, school buildings being renovated and stadiums being built. it just a personal observation. we have a long way to go. when a student -- when our computer is a person, a human brain and those you as a person and cares about you and is conscious i think that is a chance that we could have a really good teacher who is a friend for every single student. and then students can go

independent directions and independent speed. you can go as far as you want to you are on for the right test on friday. >> i am a junior graphics design major here at lesley. i'd rate you have this idea that technology is broken today. can you elaborate on that and maybe give an example? spec i don't know what it is referring to along with everything that you do good in life scientists explore and we wind up with the atomic bomb and generally coming you finally get used to it. we started with apple 35 years ago or 40 years ago, and people said my gosh this is portable and attracting our kids away from socializing. they are playing games. now they find society.

the trouble is you cannot stop the change. don't get in the way of it. we are going to change and it's unfortunate. i grew up in the newspapers and still to this day i would think the way that i use than it is more efficient than scrolling through all of my pages on the tablet or the iphone. but eventually all the kids were getting just as well educated in that way. they knew what was going on in the world and it was comin was f the computer. so, i forget the question that -- [laughter] is great to hear you speak. my name is roxanne and i made secondary education english major. one thing we talk about in the education class a lot at lesley

is the integration of technology. i know you spoke on it, but i just wanted to know assuming coming from your background and approach technology and education i'm just curious what you see as the pros and cons and technology integration during an education in the future. >> i am pro- technology and look at what we have done. we can ask questions on the internet and get answers that we never could have gotten before in our life. we can write documents easily. we have one in between. to print them and look as beautiful as the book. and i think that these are good values, good things to have. technology is not the answer by it self. it's what you can use it for. and what it signifies for what we might want to take in a future where we might want to go in the future. as i said it is getting done very close to where we deal with the technology advice in the way that we would deal with the human being.

and i think that is a good step. now, one question comes up. everybody can learn online. i have been taking the opinion that college is the most fun four years in your life. url. you have the greatest intellectual freedom and the greatest intellectual energy as well as physical energy you can do so much with your life then and there is a lot of reasons for the university as a place of gathering is on people. just tossing around i have this idea with this idea and you have to get your confidence somewhere so you need your independents away from home. some people are very, very shocked individual in their room and they don't deal with other people and socialize, now they can socialize a different way. so they come out and they can go in their room and take all these courses and go to the academy or whatever anacademy orwhatever ae well-educated totally online without the socializing in the university.

that is what you should be doing. >> thank you. i am a senior graphics design business major here at lesley and we learn about networking and the importance of developing relationships and finding mentors early on to help guide you through the ups and downs throughout life. so we were wondering if you had any notable mentors and how they hope to benefit you and the role that he played in your value and success. >> when i was young my father was an incredible mentor. he was an electrical engineer but he would never push it on any of us. this is the direction that you should go. he would talk about alternatives in the world that he would let us choose for ourselves which i admire but when i had questions how does a transistor make a

decision? he would pull out the whiteboard and he would draw some things showing where the atoms flow through. he was a great mentor. we all look back and have a couple of teachers that was so important in our life they somehow understood we are great friends and maybe we want to make education important, and i haven't -- it was the way that we talked. he had every lesson himself he didn't just use somebody else's book. he had built up equipment better than any of the local colleges that we have in the high school equipment because he talked to do and how to build things and had been a symbol that kids that were expensive, so by the time i got there we have all of the voltages into the generators at the sensors and was a good experience. more importantly, i'm on the idea of direct mentors, everybody reads books and you get a lot of direction on where to go. and this applies to my idea or

that university. i think that students when they are learning at almost any age really want a human mentor. now a very specific example, when we started apple, we found this guy that would finance us. he earned as much stock in apple computer. you never heard about him because he wasn't a young kid that came from nothing. he told us, he was over mentor. he told us how companies get set up and how you judge the business contracts and the deals and the financing and percentages, but he also told us here are the people that you high gear to make a technology company. and starting with the president and the accountants and operations, here is what each of the responsibilities are great he told us what our response abilities were. running engineering. it was just to sort of participate and learn how to run anything in the company. as if he was a total mentor. and he directed that we would be

a market-driven company instead of having engineers of adobe product and see where it goes, they would think about the users, and to need a consumer, the user that buys the product is always more important than the company that made it so i love this idea of market driven you know what it's worth, what they want, what it's worth to them and what you can charge them money and that is the way that you decide what products you're going to build. we didn't have more successful products for ten years. longer than that. by then, the macintosh finally took over. by the way, it was a huge failure. all of our computers chomp, every one, it was the huge failure and it took years to work hard with steve jobs gone to make the macintosh successf successful. but yes, this mentor really taught us how to do this professionally. people like ourselves might have started out and tried to do things that they thought made common sense but without a mentor it was hard to establish

a company that could be accepted and successful. i try to be a mentor every time. i just give them as much as my own thinking and i always need younger people are more important to me even when i had kids if they wanted to make a decision, there is was more important. [laughter] >> we appreciate your time, thank you. >> this will be the final question. >> i want to thank you for being here today and i also want to say that my name is christian and i'm a photograph i am a phod graphics design double major at leslie and i'm invested in a personal startup involving services offered in the collaborative nature, being a very hefty and ambiguous subject. and i want to relate a certain thought i always run into. in a virtuous active when beginning apple i understand you found that your idea is going to be a huge hit of success and

education. i'm sure that it ran through your mind that there was a potential proliferation in your idea. how large of destruction of the idea until it became somewhat detrimental? how did you avoid that situation? >> avoid that situation? >> basically thinking of an idea and about the potential and how large it can become and how did you limit it in order to keep it at a scope -- >> are asking the wrong person. i never thought about those sort of things. rather than open my mouth i decided i'm going to do the engineering. i would rather be thought an idiot and i will do well but i can to contribute. people have done the thinking for ten years or more. they know what they are doing more than i do.

so i don't know. what was the question, can you be more specific? >> it has to do with having an idea and how big the idea can become. >> our investors had the biggest belief of all we had the hot product of its day for people who wanted the computers but they couldn't do anything useful that we knew of. it can keep a few recipes in your house areas maybe we will put a printer on and it will do word processing and specific typewriter, a $2,000 type writer. so it wasn't really obvious and things have been quite absent. the computer was a platform that could be extended and grown into other things. we were open with our first product. apple isn't known for being open these days.

everybody out there could have some abilities and learn computers because we publish all of our designs and software, we needed a learning tool and they could define things that again did connect to the printers and they could do word processing to make your documents look beautiful finally. so we had a platform and it grew from there. it's not that we saw in a future where it would go and at a certain point in time, it was called the first solar act of all time. it was a spreadsheet program like excel. think of a small-business man in those days that had no computer. you see an apple computer running exile and it can only run on apple ii because there were a couple other small computers from radioshack that were not expandable and didn't have enough memory. you could put all the expenses of your little small-business, how many shoestrings you have to buy in january and what salaries you're going to be in february.

and by month, income and expenses, and you could make a change. the dismissed man after he set it up for an hour could type little changes in january and to see it ripple through into december instantly. it would have taken them ten years to play around with scenarios, financial scenarios, ten years of their life to do what they have done in just one hour by this machine. that's when the sales shot up skyhigh and apple became a success. there was a use in people's life, something that had value that we hadn't really seen when we started the company. did we think it had anything like today? the products of today? did we think there was going to be affordable memory to hold hoe song in a computer? never thought of this, so far out couldn't even imagine such a thing or that you could hold a a picture or video or any of that stuff very at no, you just start with what you're able to do today. and luckily, we were able -- the growing market of all-time.

luckily. thank you. ask [applause] >> thank you. and audible the u.s. senate is about to meet.

it's a pro forma session, no legislative work as expected. they will return monday afternoon at two eastern. now live to the senate floor here on c-span2. the presiding officer: the senate will come to order. the clerk will read a communication to the senate. the clerk: washington, d.c, february 21, 2014. to the senate: under the provisions of rule 1, paragraph 3, of the standing rules of the senate, i hereby appoint the honorable carl m. levin, a senator from the state of michigan, to perfom the duties of the chair. signed: patrick j. leahy, president pro tempore. the presiding officer: under the previous order, the senate stands adjourned l until 2

stands adjourned l until 2 >> senate returns for legislative work monday at 2 p.m. future. they will begin with the annual reading of george washington's farewell address. it would be but this year by angus king. in late afternoon 5 p.m. eastern senators began debate on several judicial nominations for connecticut, arkansas and california. follow the senate live here on c-span2. in washington today president obama is hosting the dalai lama at the white house over the objection of china which warned the meeting would inflict great damage is on the u.s. relationship with the asian nation. president obama greeted the tibetan spiritual leader of a half-hour ago at the white house of the white house did not announce the meeting into late thursday. the dalai lama is on his speaking tour to recover anything in washington at the

american enterprise institute yesterday. you can find that at c-span.org. tonight is the last night of booktv's primetime programmin programming. we wrap up tonight with author and women study professor on in moore's. you can see booktv's "in depth" interview with her tonight at eight eastern on c-span2. >> the beauty of america is that in this country we have the ability to write the script of our own life. we are in a sense that in the driving seat of her own future. and our biggest decisions in life are made by us. america creates the sense of possibility, and out of that you could become an activist, a committee organizer in essence, what are you doing? your living off the great capitalist explosion of wealth that you didn't even create. >> so many strawmen set outcome it's hard to know where to

begin. nobody said america's the most terrible place. but there are couple of assertions agenda take on face that are astonishing. one is the idea that america's great invention was wealth creation. not the theft at all. what about the theft of the entire continent? that was a theft. that wasn't -- [applause] 90% of the residents who have lived here were murdered and that was a part of it, to. >> thank you and dinesh d'souza debate what's so great about america, tonight at eight eastern on c-span. >> norfolk southern corporation co charles moorman says the difficult when a still likely produce a resource industry. he spoke at a summit hosted by the use chamber of commerce. he outlined the state of the rail industry, its history and future. this is about half an hour.

>> ladies and gentlemen, i hope you're enjoying your lunch and a break but it is time to introduce our luncheon speaker. we are extremely honored today to have with mormon who is the ceo, chairman and president and he has a very long title his i decided we'll call you chairman and ceo of norfolk southern. your to speak with us today. we've heard this morning about agriculture, manufacturing, energy, rae rail has nothing too with all of those things. norfolk southern connects to other modes of transportation. it supports our economy. it is an investor in its own infrastructure, and charles moorman as the great fortune of running norfolk southern. it seems like it's good he ended

up in that position because as he told me, as he told me before lunch, he just really a big kid who loves trains. so how lucky can you get to be able to do exactly what you love? wick, i want to turn the podium over for to you, and thank you very much for being with us here today. [applause] >> thank you very much, janet. i am a very fortunate person. isn't always a good id in the railroad business to tell people you like trains, but once i had the good fortune of reaching my composition i thought, i don't really care what they think. i will let it be known. so i'm very happy to be here today, have a chance to talk with all of you about norfolk southern and the railroad business, and i had a long speech prepared. fortune i just rewrote it. is a little over, but i'll try

to kind of zip through it and maybe we just a few minutes for questions. let me say, by the way, it's great to see some old friends after and to meet some new folks as well. it's a privilege actually for me to participate. at norfolk southern would like to think of ourselves as a simple country people. so when i found that i was going to share the podium with secretary fox who spoke this morning, it was a real privilege and an honor for me to be here. i also want to thank the chamber and, obviously, janet for putting this on and for recognizing what all of us recognize, which is the essential role that america's transportation infrastructure plays in the well being of our economy. interestingly enough, when you talk about infrastructure, as you know railroads have been really at the heart of this nation's infrastructure are really almost a couple of hundred years now, and it's

interesting to note that we are still just as crucial as we ever have been in terms of moving our nation's economy, and for that matter, the world's economy, over the past 200 years. we are also clearly playing a big role in our recovery from the recession of 2009. and, obviously, as you've heard today, a big, big role in helping foster what i think is the great growth story for the united states of the past 25 or 30 years, and that's this idea of the energy revolution we're going through. and i'll talk about that for a minute as well. so let me give you a couple of ways to look at our business and to think about it. the first is one i use all the time in terms of saying, well, you know, 200 years is a long time to be around. there are a lot of industries and businesses that have come and gone in that period of time. and why is it that we are still

around? one of the reasons, and i won't give you a long story of how i came up with it, other than to tell you i was trying to think how to explain railroads one day to high school kids, which was a somewhat daunting task, but one of the event just that we have, have always had and will always have falls under the terminology of friction. right? if you think about the contact area of a steel wheel on a steel rail, truck the size of a dime. and that means that we can move the equivalent of 300 truckloads worth of boxes or 10,000 tons of grain, or 70,000 barrels of crude oil all in a rolling surface area when you add it all up that is approximately the size. and no one has yet figured out a more efficient and effective way

to move goods. and i doubt that they will, unless someone comes up with a way to beam us all around. and that's the enduring advantage that our industry has. i think the core of why we are here today. via the great economic advantage that we have is that he think about our business in kind of conceptual terms, i always like to say that we started in the 19 century but in some way we are a version of the concept of the internet, right? we are a network, a common set of infrastructure assets upon which there are many businesses. we have, you know, 49 minor business groups that range from hauling aggregates for construction material handling trailers and containers for ubs and fedex. and they run the gamut of all kinds of customers with all kinds of service requirements,

and the trick of the railroad business is to be able to handle all the businesses together as efficiently and effectively as you can using a common set of assets, comments of locomotives, common set of people. and if you can do that there's enormous economic leverage in that as well. there's also another piece of leverage in that for us in that it's a rare, it happens, but it's rare that all of our businesses are bad at the same time. it's equally rare that they're all good at the same time but at any given time, we usually have some set of businesses that are doing fairly well, even in 2009, for example, when the world was coming to an end, we had a very strong cold year. so that helps sustains the ups and downs of the economy over a long period of time it will in the future -- coal you. by the fact we see so many businesses gives us a real insight into the u.s. economy in

a lot of respects and as some of you know, a lot of people will look at rail carlos as a leading indicator of where our economy is going. i'll talk more about that but let me back up and talk a little bit about where the railroad industry is today. the really good news from an infrastructure standpoint and from a business standpoint is that unlike a lot of what you hear in terms of the state of the highways, the state of our locks and dams, the state of our airports, the railroads, the railroad industry is in as good a shape as it is been for a long, long time, from the standpoint of infrastructure and from the standpoint of the health of the industry. and i'll walk through the reasons for that, but recall something from if you will, that ed hamburger said today that a lot of folks, a lot of bright folks who are educated about a lot of things really don't

remember. and that is that we own and maintain our own infrastructures. it's all private money with very few exceptions that i'll mention that goes into running the railroad business. and that creates, as you might imagine, it helps us in some ways, it also creates a big economic growth that we always have to overcome because railroads are not cheap to run. in fact, i read a quote many years ago, i've always are numbered railroads tend to be cash. so we got a big economic slump there to do with but nonetheless we managed to deal with it fairly well. that wasn't always the case, as many of you know, turn the clock back 40 years and that was the time of the wreck of the penn central which at the time was the largest in cropsey in u.s. history. it was a time when the primary conversation around railroads in washington was should they be

nationalized? we had freight cars that go off the tracks while they weren't moving. it was just a bad time for our business. fortunately, for all of us in 1980 there was an act, the staggers act past which really removed at least part of what was a very heavy yoke of government regulation, and that yoke had essentially forced the industry to the point where it was. what did it do? it exempted some traffic, intermodal traffic being an example, pretty much anything that was highly competitive with the highway, it exempted it from rate regulation but it allowed of the railroads who would never had this ability before to actually enter into contracts with customers, and those contracts were exempt from rate regulation but it set the stage witfor the industry to right sie itself in terms of getting rid of unproductive lines, in terms of downsizing, in terms of the workforce, automotive fleet and lots of assets. and all of this took a while for us to get to where we were,

where we are today, but i 2000 we essentially had a right sized industry and then we were able to really make the businesses home. now, the good news is the railroads started earning adequate returns as an industry, and that is good news. the better news for all of you and really for us as well is we took those returned and started to invest them. we started to plow money, all of us, norfolk southern had a history of the for a long time but all of the indie she started to plow money back into the properties. and that's a great new story for our customers, a great news story for the country and a good news story for others as well. when i talk about money, how much do i mean? this year, 2014, norfolk southern capital budget is 2.2 billion dollars. we are a company that only had $11.2 billion in revenues last

year. so order of magnitude, 16, 17, 18% of revenues is typically what we plow back in capital into our businesses. over the past three years we have invested $7.5 billion in capital. how do we break that down? remember i talked about the fact we have to maintain all of our own infrastructure. by the way, this is a subject that is near entered my heart because my first 12 years in the company were spent in track maintenance. in fact, i always tell people it's the only thing i really understand about the business. some people look a little cross eyed when i say that, but nonetheless, it's something that i believe in very firmly is that we have to maintain our infrastructure. you look at that $2.2 billion, you get rid of 200 million of it for positive train control what you want to get depressed i'll tell you about later, but 900 million of that 2 billion is

just in maintaining infrastructure. that is new rail, new cross ties, balance, bridge rebuilding. that's typical for us. 45% of our capital every year just goes back into the property. then on top of that 900 million in capital we probably spend close to that much in expense. it's a billion eight for our company just to maintain the railroad. add it all up for all of the railroads, this year it's about 26 billion in private dollars that we will put into our properties to make sure that they are maintained at a very high level. and the good news is because of that investment, rail infrastructure today, the track, the bridges, all of it is in the best shape that it's been in since at least world war ii. and that's a great story, as i say, for all of us. or else do we put money? locomotives, cars. we will by 75 locomotives this

year. locomotives are well over $2 million a clip right now. we spent and numerous amount of money on technology and our company has been a leader in technology for a long, long time. railroads, and this is not recognized widely either, were early and ardent of doctors of i.t. because -- ardent of doctors. all these people moving them and it was tailor-made to bring technology into track and to make sure that when you were our assets were and where they're going. right now we're investing in technologies like leaders, a system that we developed in conjunction with a supply that tells an engineered exactly how to run his train to get the maximum fuel efficiency. a movement planned system we developed with ge which is increasing the velocity of our railroad by two to four miles an hour. that's a big, big improvement for us, and the list goes on.

the next thing we invest in its business development. we are big, big promoters of the state economic developmedevelopme nt. we have an office that works with all of the states to bring in industries. we helped sponsor about $2.3 billion in investment and industry on our lines last year. but then on top of that we invest in business development as well in our corridor projects, the crescent corridor which will target taking, hopefully, 2 million plus drops off the highway between the southeast and southwest and new england and north jersey. it's a huge market. there's almost no rail intermodal out there, and we have built new terminals. we've added capacity, and we've done that in a public-private partnership with not only the federal government, you heard john talk about a tiger grant, the crescent corridor actually got the biggest single tiger

grant of the first tranche. but also in conjunction with the state of virginia, the state of pennsylvania, the state of tennessee. and public-private partnerships have been a very effective way to use our dollars, and we put a lot of them in there, and public dollars to grow business and to relieve this nation's crowded highway infrastructure. and then finally people. if you look at our company, we have 30,000 employees. 10,000 of those people weren't in our company seven years ago. we are seeing an enormous turnover. there are still people there left who look like me. fewer and fewer and fewer. it's getting lonely actually. but we put a lot of focus on people and we put a lot of investment into our people. so what are the results? well, they are great. you look at the industry secure grid and that's been something there's been a lot of conversation about, but the

history enter into she over the past 20 years of safety improvements has been absolutely remarkable. if you look at employee injuries, one of the things we track recklessly, it is safer to work for a railroad than it is for a hotel. and it's not an environment that in and of itself is a particularly safe place but we put an extraordinary amount of focus on employee safety as well as community safety. if you look at train accident rates in this country, they have gone down dramatically. they can get better. we're focused on it, but there's a great news story in terms of safety. at the same time service levels in the business have gone way up. that's also a big positive for a lot of folks. i mentioned earlier, they're both with us to become i mentioned earlier ups and fedex who i can tell you both care about service. and are both great customers of norfolk southern. and that kind of investment, and

i'll talk about our intermodal businesses, is key to going going forward and key in my opinion solving this nation's transportation problems. so how does this all translate? let me finish up quickly by talking about this today. someone asked me earlier, how is your business going? my response was, i really don't know. because of the weather. railroading is an outdoor sport. we have a 20,000-mile a similar line that is, with the exception of a few tunnels, exposed to the elements, and this has been an extraordinarily difficult winter, not just for norfolk southern but for the nation's rail system and for a lot of other folks as well. and we, quite frankly, we are bracing. i think we get another front next week. we are optimistic that when we come out of it we will see our business levels rebound substantially, but this, i think all of you know, these weather

patterns are going to have a significant impact not only on our business but on gdp for the first quarter of the year. so let's look at the last year, second half of 2013. we had a really good second half. i mentioned we have business sectors that do well and do poorly. it was the case of that our coal business, i won't bemoan all of the things that have happened to it, but suffice to say it's a big business, a profitable business. if you look at it in 2013 versus 2011, we were down $1.2 billion in revenues here can remember, we're an $11 billion revenue company so that was not good. we had some of the things that were week. agriculture was not great primary because of the harvest in 2012. paper, force products, you are seeing some resurgence in housing but the base is still very low. we had some things that performed very well.

one, briefly, automotive. people continue to buy cars in this country. that's a great news story for the u.s. economy and the good news story for the railroads as well. 70% of the finished vehicles in this country move by rail at some point between assembly plant or port and the dealer. we move a lot of parts as well. people will continue to buy autos. we are bullish. obviously, the automakers are bullish as well. intermodal, i mentioned briefly our crescent corridor. we have three pieces of business, the premium business which i mentioned with fedex, ups and the other folks. that's a real strong piece of our business, but from evolving standpoint a little smaller. we have a lot of 45 boxes that come in and go out through the force. that's a business that took it on the chin almost as bad as anything we hauled in 2009. it has rebounded some as trade

as resumed, but to some extent that's a reflection of the retail economy which is still not back where it was in 2006 and 2007. and then finally the big growth story for us is our domestic business. that's taking containers off the highway. that's a good news story for us. we work now with a lot of trucking companies, partners, to do that because we provided some things that they really need. biggest issue most trucking companies face is driver shortages. so if we can take the long haul component of that trip, let the drivers did a short-haul, stay home, their business gets a lot easier. we have some advantages in that business besides driver shortages that are here to stay. clearly, the state of the nation's highways in terms of not only the maintenance but the congestion are a big issue.

we offer a huge field advantage. we can transport, how many miles the? 500 miles. we can halt one ton of great 500 miles on average with a gallon of fuel. which is a huge advantage for us. and, finally, we are viewed by a lot of customers as a sustainable way to haul goods because of our emissions profile and our feud -- fuel burn profile. that's all a good news story. we expect intermodal to grow considerably in the future, and we're banking on it. we are investing on it. and then finally the other big growth story for us has been the energy business as you might imagine. while cole has gone down, lots of other components of that business have really grown. we serve pennsylvania and ohio, the marsalis and utica shale. we do a booming business in practice and. fracas and as you note is required for this hydraulic fracturing. good lord in his infinite wisdom, i should say in her

infinite wisdom, decided to put most of the fracas and in this country up in wisconsin. the great thing about wisconsin, it's a great rail haul to pennsylvania. so when we see cars with stancu by can we look up in the heavens and say thank you. have you got any more for his? we all of a lot of chemicals for the fracking business, a lot of hype. were hauling more and more natural gas liquids, particularly coming out of the utica and then finally there's the crude business which has been a remarkable growth story for us. we went from handling, i don't know, three cars or whatever it was, no cars five years ago. lester norfolk southern alone hauled 75,000 carloads of crude. and we expect that business to continue to grow as well. crude will take me then to the last i wanted to talk about briefly, and that's regulation. i was in the meeting along with most of the other class one

ceos about three or four weeks ago i guess now, along with representatives from the api with secretary fox, with the administrators of the fra, with a lot of folks to talk about the issues of handling crude oil. you've heard them all. rail safety, what else can we do? we are working on a lot of things in terms of making sure we are routing it in the safest possible manner. in looking at speed, particularly through densely populated areas, in talking about additional inspections of our equipment, and more important our right-of-way. we talked in the meeting a lot about what exactly are we hauling. there are issues around, particularly the material coming out of the balkan that no one is quite sure about in terms of its volatility and what might be able, what might be done to reduce it. and then finally take car standards. it's very clear that the dod 111

tank car, the original car is not difficult to breach in the event, in the highly unlikely event of a rail accident. as ed mentioned earlier, the industry in general reached a voluntary new standard in 2011. those cars are clearly better. now there is the process underway to come up with an even higher standard. as all of you know, i think railroads don't own many tank car's. they are owned primarily by lessers and by shippers. that creates a certain amount of tension but nonetheless i'm optimistic that we will reach a voluntary standard sooner rather than later on what the next generation of tank car is but one thing i should say about all of this conversation with irregulars is that they have been doing their job, but they've been doing it in a thoughtful way, and they have been listening to all of the facts and all of the concerns. and i do applaud them for that.

that's one side of regulation, but there are others. there's positive train control, a $10 billion mandate which was forced upon him to get, the government estimates that for every $20 we spent we will get $1 in benefit which is not a good deal in my reckoning. we have other state regulations that are out there that are burdensome to us in the sense that they don't do that much about safety but they create significant additional costs. we are fortunate though that the fra has recognized that in a couple of instances and relaxed some things like locomotive inspection standards that were, quite frankly, leftover from the steam locomotive days. and then finally and most worrisome, there are attempts as many of you know underway to change the economic regulatory framework under which we operate. ..

how good it's been for our country that that would happen. as we move forward, i will tell you i think we are an absolutely a central partner to government and businesses, to our customers to position this country for a prosperous future. but we can only do that if we continue to grow and invest in

our businesses and earn an adequate return. if we do our job well, our economy will grow area we will all be prosperous and that will be good for all of us. thanks very much. [applause] did i take out all the time? >> you can use all the time you want. first are there any questions for you? where are the microphones? >> you didn't even have to ask the first one. >> i know. >> will we see more high-speed train tracks for the passenger trains like you see them elsewhere in the world? >> i apologize. i didn't write it down i should have started my talk by saying i'm talking about the freight

railroad and it's difficult sometimes i think in a lot of people's perspectives of what our business is to separate the difference between the passenger and freight, and obviously europe has a different model that it's just not particularly important. so my personal opinion and remember i'm a kid that likes trains is that it is just not a model that works in this country with a few possible exceptions. you can look at a few other quarters may be out of chicago that would work, but the investment is enormous and it will require a judgment on the part of public policy leaders that they would rather put those dollars into high-speed rail

than investing in the highway infrastructure which has been the pattern in this country and i just don't think you're going to see very much of it. there are places where the conventional passenger rail works very well even when it's on the railroad, but i just i can't see it ever happening in any meaningful way. >> other questions? i'm going to ask you a question that came to mind while i was sitting here. you talk about the success of the railroads have been able to have because you own and operate your own infrastructure in the best shape since world war ii. we have other infrastructure that isn't in that case. there is a difference between running a private railroad and having to keep available a public network said keeping that in mind what would your advice be to government entities that

have to make choices about operating, maintaining and expanding the public infrastructure that they have? >> i would say what everyone else in the room said. we have been blessed prematurely because of the decisions people made 50 years ago with a wonderful public infrastructure which is now at a point where if we don't really do serious investments first and maintenanceinmaintenance, that g to lose it. we are going to lose significant parts of it. you look at the statistics about the bridges on medicare and things like that. and i will echo what the secretary said. we talk about this all the time. just because our infrastructure is in great shape, and it is, it doesn't mean the rest of the infrastructure doesn't have a huge impact on us because it has a huge impact on our customers and we need for our customers to

be successful in order for us to be successful. so we go around and talk about the importance of this being a nonpartisan issue in terms of finding the adequate funding for the trust fund, in terms of getting our hands around the maintenance of what we've got first and foremost. there is no point adding additional capacity. it would be wasted. >> how about a final question. there is one in the back. >> i thought i stunned all of you. i'm with eq rollcall. how rapidly nights it converts to natural gas as a locomotive fuel? >> that is an interesting question. we are all working very hard as natural gas.

and the locomotive providers, emd which is a caterpillar division and general electric as well, are getting a lo doing a f research on it. but it's -- it's not something you can just look at it automatically and say this is a no-brainer and we need to do it. the reason i say that is if you look at the price on the differential between a gallon of diesel and a similar amount of natural gas, it is a no-brainer. i forget what the price is right now and it moves substantially with the price of gas but there is a lot of capital that's required in terms of the local mode of -- local locomotives. remember right now if we were to

call a cryogenic of natural gas around under the safety requirements it would have to be at least six cars kind of the engine in the key train so there are regulatory issues involved. when you think about infrastructure and locomotives and all those things, what you are essentially making a bet on is what is the spread between lail and natural gas ten, 15, 20 years from now. it looks compelling if we can get the technology sorted out, which we well into the regulatory, which i think we will. but essentially you are making a long-term bet if you move to the locomotives that can only burn gas. so still a lot to be determined and i think anybody that is looking at u this from the railroad side would give you the same answer.

>> thank you for joining us today. [applause] >> ukrainian opposition leaders signed a deal with the president in the country and european mediators for early elections and the new government the associated press writes the key question is whether the thousands of protesters camped out in kiev. photographs have been tweeted by news agencies. "new york times" writing about the deal this morning. the associated press says meanwhile the ukrainian parliament has voted to restore a previous constitution and limits the president's powers and they also voted amnesty for protesters involved in the violence. the state department meanwhile is advising americans to be for long all the non- essential travel because the violence saying the situation is predictable and could change quickly. further violent crashes vehicle

clashes between protesters and other cities are possible. the location and nature of demonstrations employed by the police can change quickly without warning. protest sites continue to draw large crowds and citizens are advised to avoid all protest demonstrations and large gatherings. the travel warning authorizes the departure of all family members of u.s. personnel and they say that while the u.s. embassy will stay open, the ability to respond to emergencies involving americans is limited. here's a look at tonight's primetime lineup on the c-span networks.

senior executives from the retail industry described transportation infrastructure as the connective tissue of the economy. facebook and a panel hosted by the chamber of commerce and speakers include kevin burke of the airport council and ups

freight president jack holmes. this is an hour. [applause] >> i told you the microphones were magic. this is the magic area and the man behind the curtain. and we think -- while i do this, i do want to thank the u.s. chamber team, the foundation, the people behind the curtain, everyone that makes it possible to do these terrific events like this one today. for the last 100 years, actually over the last hundred years it's been a substantial shift in the economies and industrialized countries. we've gone from agriculture, mining and manufacturing, eating very dominant to the services sector driving those economies. it's the soft part of the economy. its activities people all for

their knowledge and time. if anything involving people. it revolves around providing attention, service, access, experience, discussion. healthcare is a huge part of the service sector. as individuals when we think of health care we often think of the services that we received, as an individual like me having to do for my doctors appointment and get on the scale again. well, according to the bureau of labor statistics, the two fastest-growing jobs in the next decade by far will be in healthcare. personal health aides and home health aides to rate how are they going to get to work? however, the healthcare sector isn't just business to consumer and person to another. it's also business-to-business including the supply chains that serve hospitals and doctors offices. since 2003, the healthcare sector has grown war than ten times faster than the rest of the economy adding 2.6 million jobs. as of today to close out the

infrastructure intersection summit, we have a very unique panel. to this discussion, these outstanding, truly outstanding individuals are going to provide a customer perspective when it comes to the transportation system and also get to talk about the challenges of planning and providing aspects of the system to a very dynamic and an ever-changing service sector. i'm going to introduce my panelists, and then let them make a few opening remarks and have a few questions because someone has to be prepared with the questions to ask. what we start at the far end. doctor patrick quinlan is of the ochsner clinic foundation in ochsner international services and executive director of the ochsner institute for wellness and health policy. his leadership was tested and proven in the aftermath of hurricane katrina, rebuilding the facilities in new orleans, and maintaining a full payroll following the damaging flooding. after that, he was named the number one most powerful position executive in the nation

by modern physician magazine. and i suspect he's also going to be able to talk a little bit about the challenges of delivering health care in a rural state. and because he has spent a considerable amount of time in albuquerque, new mexico he forgot. he is en route to the middle east. we appreciate you making a little stopover for us to talk about transportation. now, doctor damon kralovic is a board-certified emergency medicine physician at the cleveland clinic, and he serves as the medical director of the cleveland clinic's critical care transport program. transportation is very much his as. us. he developed a special interest in air medical transport when he took on a roll as a flight physician prior to joining the cleveland clinic in 2006. however, through talking a little bit before, he also has some other transportation related interests including building what he does with his son -- building leggos with his

son. it is no patients too sick or too far and his team has transferred nearly 40,000 adult and pediatric patients from 24 countries and 44 in the u.s. by helicopter and fixed wing aircraft. from the distribution association the vital link between the nations pharmaceutical manufacturers and healthcare providers to be at every business day come to think about this, the member companies ensure that 15 million prescription medicines and healthcare products are delivered safely and efficiently to 200,000 pharmacies, hospitals, long-term care facilities, clinics and others nationwide. john knows more than a little something about the challenges that transportation infrastructure poses to the supply chains. he came from the food distributors and the manufacturing association. last but not least, michael

melaniphy, president and ceo of the american transportation association and also a member of our americans for transportation mobility publishing management council. now michael doesn't have a car in washington, d.c., but he does drive. and in fact in order to put himself through school at indiana university, he drove bobby knight's basketball team. speaking of basketball he's also a graduate of wichita state university, 28-0. i was in wichita last week and they were excited about that. but he's been on the public and private sector side and the bus manufacturing, running the major transit systems. michael challenged with making sure that we can all get where we need to go. so, with that, i want to turn it over to doctor quinlan for your opening half. >> [inaudible] >> there is so much to talk about health care.

if you think about the hospitals and other associated clinics and so forth they are complex cities and very intense utilizes of services and i was asked to talk about the role of the supply chain during the crisis and i want to take this opportunity to thank the supply-chain partners that kept this alive for the hospital crisis. the lifeline is your supply-chain. and without it, we are the only place that was opening because of the supreme effort of our supply-chain partners at the particular asset that is heroic along with cardinals that kept the patients going. over 2,000 people 24/7. it was difficult. and for those that had to run the blockades. when you get the supply-chain and the infrastructure and we think about the people that move it, we forget about the

regulation behind it that sometimes creates unintended consequences because the blockade kept this from ice, water come up parts and fuel, unwillingly, so the blockade runners did what they had to do flying low under radar to bring us the parts to replace the broken and the patients have air conditioning and it is a tough place. at the same fothe same for fueld ice and drugs. when we think about the transportation infrastructure, let's not forget the regulation that sometimes works in ways that would shock us and at most that needed fight through with our partners and i want to thank people including wal-mart who invited us to come into the store and help take this and that's to keep you going. so hats off to the industries that kept us going. i want to mention that. >> thank you so much. doctor kralovic.

>> again, i want to thank you and the chamber of commerce for the opportunity to be here. because often times, when we think of healthcare, we pipe it to transportation, and i think that one of the reasons that it is if you look at the model of health care across the country in a way that it has been, it is often times the hospital will mean everything to that person into their community. and what i mean by that is hospitals tend to serve patients, and they tend to offer services so that they can be everything to that community. and oftentimes, that means with technologies and advancements in health care that we are duplicating a lot of services throughout the country. and so, when you think of most business models, usually competition will drive down the cost. and those that do things, you know, make things were so things are most efficiently tend to do things better than others but if you look at healthcare in terms

of the competition, that actually drives up the cost. so you think about a hospital that wants to serve patients and they want to be everything to that patient end of the hospital across the street is going to spend several hundred million dollars to treat in euro surgical -- neurosurgical tumor that is very rare, then it becomes imperative to the other hospital to purchase that same capital investment and equipment. and where does that cost gets passed on? it gets passed onto the consumer. so, when you look at the total expenditure of healthcare, which is almost coming close to 20% of our gdp, this growth is not sustainable. we have to get the control of the cost of healthcare. if we don't, then in the next 20 or 30 years, we are going to see this as more than one third of our gdp. so, the way that we have spent, you know, actively involved, if you look at the healthcare industry as it is now, then you

will see a lot of hospitals coming together to form health systems. so, you look at the year 2001 according to the american hospital association, there is roughly about 5,000 hospitals in america. and of the 5,000 hospitals, that is 2,500 or so actually belonged to the health system. ten years later in 2011, it is up to 3,000. we talk to the 3,000 mark and as time goes on, you are going to see that this is really what is going to be happening is that the hospitals are closing or are not able to survive financially. they are going to be forming helps us as. and so, when you think about the formation of the health system, it makes sense basically on two areas. and one is you have the opportunity to improve quality. if you were a hospital system as an example rather than have the labor and delivery services across all ten hospitals, you would be, you know, delivering babies at a rate sufficient to the population that is right

around the hospital, but if you were to take that for system and create centers of excellence were maybe three of the ten hospitals, you know, what you deliver babies than you think of the cost of healthcare of having the obstetricians on call and only three of the areas and then being able to take care of the patients in the three areas. the second benefit where your going to indirectly figure out is now you are giving a higher volume of procedures and a much higher volume of the specific diagnoses and when that happens, you have the opportunity to be more efficient and the quality will improve because you are getting better expertise by doing it every day so you can generally see an overall decrease in the cost of health care at least for the health system that's involved. so how does that tie into transportation?

if the trend right now and more than two thirds of the nation is already engaged in the formation of the health system, and if you are going to have centers of excellence in the health system, but it comes down to is getting the right patien patients to tht place at the right time. so 5% at a hospital -- if i'm having a heart attack and they don't have the interventional cardiologist on call ready to perform the life-saving procedure, we are going to need to get the patient from the hospital they present to to the definitive care that they need. and speak of heart attacks, when you talk about someone experiencing a heart attack, just showing up to an emergency department and, you know, the gold standard of what we call the door to balloon time where the blood restores to the coronary artery is 90 minutes. and at the 90 minute mark we have a fatality rate of around 90%. but if you were to double that timthetime with the latest and e that door to wound time from 90 minutes to 180 minutes you are

actually going to double the markup of the entity the rate based on that time alone. when we talk about wher where hh care reform and everything that we are experiencing today with the economy and with health care in general, we are going to have to come to grips with potentially a lot of obstacle to the hospital closures information, and so i'm somewhat biased in the sense that we need a critical care transplant team and t be a part of it, but realy i think the future of healthcare in the united states is critical that you have the means to transport patients to get the right patients to the right place at the right time, so i think transportation from my perspective as i said we can't do what we do everyday and take carevery day and takecare of pae transportation infrastructure in place.

>> when people think about health care thehealthcare they n thinking about going to see their doctor at the hospital but they often don't think about how does the medicine that i need to get to where it needs to go? tell us a little bit about the supply chains. >> i give the chamber the credit for this one because when i was first called about healthcare i said that's an interesting twist on the concept, but it is true. of all of the systems in the transportation that we talked about probably the most misunderstood as the distribution in the healthcare industry. if you ask anybody, you go into your pharmacy and get your prescription, nine times out of ten most people have no idea how that product got from just an example from kaiser to the pharmacy. how it gets there is my member

companies and it's probably one of the best kept secret industries in the united aids because you said i came from the distribution and as good as those industries are and they are extraordinarily effective, coming into this healthcare world, the companies and my organization there's only 43 of them, 34 of them are 22 companies. they do it better than anyone. we measure success by something called phil rates and if you order 100 items in the food industry and gets 92 of them that morning, that is a great day. if you don't get 99.8 and healthcare, then you have a problem. and our companies have developed that. both large and small and one of the company's slogan is it's not a package is a patient and they really do follow that, but so

under all of that ability, the computerization, specialization, specialty drugs and requirements, the core is you have to have the infrastructure for the transportation system because our companies use all of the systems. we use third-party logistics when appropriate but we need roads and bridges and access. our companies are about 1.2, not the first responders but the 1.2 in katrina and they are the ones that got through the red tape politically in the new york area and got the product into the hospitals. so i never thought about this but you're right, transportation infrastructure without thought it would be difficult to get the product to the consumer and increasingly as these doctors know the last five years the explosion at the complex molecular product in the specialty of being a particularly oncology, this product cannot sit and wait.

it has hours sometimes to get to the clinic where did the doctor that could be administering the product. i hope you will think they do a great job, we do and so i mentioned this discussion because you are right if we use the common carriers for everything because the security reasons, we don't want to trucks marked with some of these products so we rely exclusively on the common carriers, and so that infrastructure is critical to the success of the industry. we have been around since 1876 at a minimum and over organization was founded by doctor eli back in the day when you made drugs you wholesale drugs and did everything so it's been around, and now it's kind of a forefront of the speed of

the industries you agree it's picked up. treatment changes almost weekly in some areas and the distributors have to be in there in the times when the doctor's order a product they don't want to be told we will get it to you in three weeks. >> meeting the infrastructure just in time for the economy. >> just in time was claimed by the retailer. they were one of the first companies that got the just in time inventory system. they could get the product to those stores and they would think they got my sweater in 15 minutes but a sweater is one thing and a piece of pie might be out for a day or two when you are a cancer patient coming in for your treatment, you can't be told combat in five days. so the product has to be there

on time so that is a critical issue for us. >> we talked a lot today about moving good that you and your members are in the business of moving people whether it's the employees to all of the systems, whether it's the customers for them. so tell us a little bit about what's going on how you are thinking about infrastructure. >> it's critical that we took the transportation role in health care. whether we live in that world areas, urban areas or urban ice areas health care touches all of us and we've heard about the facilities located around the country. but the reality is you can't go there and you have to have the transportation infrastructure to get there. you talked about this being one of the sectors. these healthcare facilities need