. [inaudible conversations] >> tonight on c-span2 book tv in primetime. author and women's studies professor. ..

author bonnie morris, in your book revenge of revenge of the women's study, revenge for what? >> guest: the final tight is not meant to be provocative or rude. it's about having the opportunity to talk back to many people who steer type my field, or ask really unfair students. i have a bunch of terrific students intimidated by taking a basic class in women's history. they come to me and express doubt or concern. they're afraid what people will say. what will it look like on their transcript. so those experiences lead me to a really keen awareness of how many people feel there is something wrong with looking at half the world's history. i've negotiated many of these rude conversations throughout my teaching career. the idea of revenge was i wanted to talk back but in a cheerful

way. a cheerful/playful way. i wanted to be the smiling face of women's studies and women history. show that as a diplomat from academic feminism, i'm not scary, i'm approachable, i love my students, but enough with being rude to the professor. people who come by and say i love your class. you're not at all a nazi. thank you, rush rush limbaugh, you're not rude to the professor on the first day. the class will not hurt you. looking at women's history will only improve your life. what is it look for us on the other side of the desk that have to deal with the range of our work being impugned by people who are fearful. >> host: where do you teach? >> guest: george washington university and part time at georgetown. hello to my terrific students. i teach pretty much everything

required for the miner and major, introductory women's history, specialized class on women's sport. over enrolled since 1996 i teach a survey course in women's history which has about 120 first-year students. right now i have athletes from every sport. i have a lot of people in th >> guesi have people in the first year and then graduating seniors who have waited just to take a women's studies class >> host: what is women's studies? >> guest: it has been in schools since 1969. it looks at all of the humanity

from how women's lives are shaped. many people go through their education without learning about women's contribution and be educated still. so if you want to look at the role of women in every society because of law, religion or warfare and education and opportunities as well, this is a chance to make that the center of your research. we cover just about everything. it is just like any other class where you take exams and paper >> host: what do you do with a women's study good degree? >> guest: many go on to be lawyers, many know go broad, and many work with the issues of

violence against women in regions from northern africa to bosnia and many students do developments in terms of non-profit from planned parenthood to organizations that work with women and girls. i have a couple students who have gone on to med school and do specialties in women's health. quite a new in nursing and i have athletes involved in furthering their severe. and i have someone at the olympics right now. >> host: do men take your

classes? >> guest: you bet! guys who are majoring in women's studies even. and at george washington a guy is the chair. i would say the average guy who take as women's study class is often already focused on the experiences of women because, maybe he is the son of a single mom, and then i have a huge percentage of international students who perhaps this is the only chance they have to take a class like that before they go home to equate, i have guys from iran and many from quatar.

and i have people who are curious. and once they take one of the classes they take more. once i have them, i have them. >> host: what was that experience like in quatar in >> guest: i felt like a third sex. i was not expected to dress in a full head cover. but i was willing to cover my hair. i was startled to find the large percentage of women in the country who cover their faces. and many are not sit citizens. i am used to making eye contact and you didn't see their face or mouths moving and the sense of their being silenced was m

magnified. i was surrounded by western men in suits, arab men in beautiful gowns, and women in black who are covered. and then there was me in a western suit. so it was an eye-opening experience. but i found the opportunity to interact with women from all over the arab world and that is what i wanted to do. i moderated a panel on discrimination in sports that ended up being about racial and ethnic discrimination and not furthering opportunities for girls. >> host: in your most recent book, you open it by saying read through a basic history book, get a state history approved text book and you are left with the impression that all of human

history was achieved by one sex: male. >> guest: and unfortunately that continues. the biggest challenge for me as an american educator is that women's history and women's studies frighten people because they think all women's history is about the body and all is about sex and birth control and it isn't appropriate for a kindergarten or middle school class. and education boards, the people that approve the text books for texas, that is controversy. and my argument is there is plenty of women's history that is age-appropriate that gives women the opportunity to run for public office or show where they

have been closed out. it is easy to look at female achievers in history and not make it about sex. we don't do that though. we have lessons that encourage them to think beyond the imagery in the private spear. and as a person who reads ap u.s. history exams, putting women's history into something an honor student should know is becoming successful mainstream of women's history. it is a process. but it is still possible to have text books that don't reflect the range of what women have done. or the focus is women and minorities and you have white women and black men and guess who is left out? and that is african-american

women. that is why i insisted the cover of my book be a majority of women of color because they have really been written out of the american curriculum. >> host: where women and men play different coals, that tells us a difference about power. still most of what is described in history is indeed this stories the lives and writings of great men. >> guest: when i was in graduate school, we read eh car "what is history" and his argument was if you rely on documents they only tell you what the author of the documents wanted you to know. but we look at the constitution and women were usually

illiterate. they were not able to keep journals. so we have narratives which have been put down as old wives tale. we think it is making beds and raising kids and history is made in the public spear of women. but the fath of the matter is most live is lived in the private spear. >> host: in the book "vevent of the women's studies professor" you write: n's rights. but they are not enforced because women are not the enforcers! ". >> that's correct. >> guest: that is correct. the biggest example of is that

is the taliban continuing to wield influence in pakistan where girls have the right to go to school and sometimes even wounded in the case of malia. so most countries say we permit schooling for girls, their safety in that process isn't guaranteed and the backlash against educated girls is an issue in more places we care to examine. >> host: bonnie morris, why didn't you use the word hurstry? >> guest: i love that and the alternate spellings. i have a linguistic spelling in my classes. but i wanted to avoid anything

that would pigeon hole me as a certain find of old-school feminist who was going to insist on altering language. i love the for beginners series because it offers an available introduction to subject matter that everybody is curious about but maybe is intimidated by. i use it in casual conversation and on the first day of class, i will explain you don't have to have a specific political vi viewpoint to get an a. that would be wrong. you do have to put women at the forefront of what we are study but that doesn't mean we hate

men. >> host: what do you mean by d oldschool feminist? >> guest: the whole cultural movement for women's book stores and fairs and all of that shaped me and it was in place by the time i was 16-17. i came into a cultural feminism which was shaped by lesbian activist and my opportunities to do advanced work in women's history, i owe debt to people who came before me. in graduate school it was expressed how to make women's studies creditable and coheriant

and you have to look at the grassroots effort. you cannot use the language that is going to sound so difficult and i like the post-morded erni. and i believe you have to look at the people not the archaic tower. this has been one long beautiful ark of justice for me growing up. and explaining the history of

how we get from a to b is what i do. a lot of student don't know when women got the vote. or what is the 14th amendment. if you don't know the history of enslaved women and women who owned women, you will never understand why we don't have a unified women's movement. >> host: can you be a con sf conservative and a women's study major? >> guest: sure. that has changed. what is interesting how is as women advance, they certainly do so because of the feminist who game before them, but women are in the position where they can distance themselves from earlier issues and be a leader as they

define. it is challenging because i will sometimes have students being hostile to the women who went before them to enable them the opportunities they have now. and i have students engaged in the classroom but lie about it to friends. the women were hiding in the bathroom reading a book on how women got the vote because the sorority head said it was giving the wrong message about the house to have my book on the table when men are coming. how does that intimidate your future husband? he doesn't want you to vote? that was an unusual place. but by position is everyone is welcome.

everyone is a walking narrative text. what happens to you is what forms your viewpoint. but let's look at what the law limited women to in the past. where you could not attend a university. you could not go to med school, play sports, own property, train guide dogs. as a brainy little girl, who was told you can do this and this and you can skip a grade and do whatever you want, to get these messages, no, women are not allowed here and there, that was a big cognitive dissonance in my developing mind. i knew girls could do more. i was in classes with gifted girls. i was surprised they were not

o outraged. i was not outraged in the way that makes people bitter, whatever the wrong stereotype is. i was like i will going to do what i intend to do is that is illogical to hold back half the nation. don't we want to keep up with math, science and physics? >> host: how did you define feminism today and are we in a post-feminist era? >> guest: i am very concerned on the quote war on women. we are rolling back on reproductive rights and there is no end to the statistics on violence of women. we are still shaming girls about their body and we have so much

sexism in the media showing you need to be a certain shape to be loved and poplar. what unifies a lot of women globally is what is gone to women. you don't want victim feminism. but empowered feminism says women should be equal in their rights and opportunities period. where we don't see that, we want to push forward to make that possible. end of statement. globally lack women's lack of access to education, health and information about their options. >> host: do you think that sexism plays any role in hilary clinton's presidential chances?

>> guest: absolutely. i used the fi filfilm film "misrepresentation" in the classroom and it looks at women and how they are perceived during a campaign. their hair, their clothes all of that is addressed. hillary has been maligned with respect to men don't want a women telling them what to do, they don't like the sound of her voice, she represents hectoring and that is based on the dilima of should women tell men what at a do. it was the same when men were trying to get the vote. men didn't want women making the policy decisions because they felt the influence of the mother maker should be staying at home. we have insane myths that you

should not be in the oval office if you have a period. but if you are post-m men menopauseal then you will still get talked about for one reason or another. there is a long tradition where men define independence by leaving home and not doing what mommy says anymore. so the psychological thing is can mommy run the country and applying those skills in public

life, there is concern what it means. will they miss work because of childcare? they are asked how can you do this and raise kids when they are running is a question they are asked. each semester students are encountering how we analyze that and why does this keep happening when women are such high achievers why do we find these ideas? it is sad for students to feel alarms that their mother's feminism didn't eliminate them. >> host: who are your personal heroes in the movement? >> guest: all of the women who started women's bookstores. the women who started the women's music festival.

the women who made title nine possible. sandler who looked at sexism in high rer education. the person who created the field of academic studies in lesbian histo history. and the obviously the people who have done a lot of labor around women's reproductive rights. the olympic champions who made it possible for women to do ski jump, ice hockey or run a marathon. everybody who started the wnba. all of the folks who were the

first to be in a class at an ivy league school or who broke the gender barrier in the service ac academy. i admire everyone that pushed forward to close occupations. >> host: the is the first time the women are doing the ski jump. >> guest: everyone was afraid will it hurt them. who do we allow men to be injured and we forbid women? there is a lot of drama around women as child barriers but we allow them to get hurt all of

the time. people should be dealing with rape if they are concerned about the hurt of women but we only hear about it when it is dealing with these situations. the irony is intriguing. i gave talk to my niece's girlscout troop and a student asked is there a bias against girls? we were in a skiing area and i said you see the mountain? girls can't do the ski jump in the olympics and they were shocked. >> host: this month we have professor and author bonnie

morris who is the guest. she is the author of six non-fiction books. and here is the first: and the second one: "eden built by eves" and then "revenge of the women's studies professor" and then the last is "women's history for beginners". bonnie, there is a rose -- a lot of female book stores?

>> guest: we have integrated them into mainstream book stores which are going out of business now, too. some is a natural change as you bring women's work into the the mainstream is being affe effect by the technology changes. before they had to go to a physical site. the issue of ghettoization is intriguing to me. people will say shouldn't we have a men's studies and i say that is all of the other classes. it is important to have a place where women gathering in groups and have a sense of what is like to be the majority. many students who take engineering are the only women

in the class and they don't know what it is like to be in a class that is the majority female. i have students coming from single-sex private high schools and they are familiar with this and not self-conscious about being athletes and leaders. one thing that is moving to me is that in the united states as we are forced a kind of integrated co-ed cultural, we are lost women's spaces that every countries with stricter customs do have. when i taught on a semester at sea, we went to a traditional women's backhouse in turkey and korea. women gathered here because traditionally they didn't have a bathtub in the home but they would sing and scrub their

backs. i was deliriously happy to experience something like that. but these girls were uncomfortable and they all the same thing: i am too fat and i hate my body. you have a western bias self hating view of your body and everyone on the ship wrote their body about what does that say? we are advanced in terms of some rights but we expect women to have it all. be ideally wife and mother, a career women, athlete and look perfect. no one can do all of the that and trying to control the self

scrutiny for perfection, my college-age students very much feel the burden of trying to look perfect. it take as toll on your focus and attention. you should be reading a book and not worry about your body all day. >> host: you can bring home the bacon in a pan and never let him forget he is a man. >> guest: exactly. >> host: if you would like to participate in the conversation with author bonnie morris we will put the phone lines up. we have the east and central time zone numbers and we have the number for those of you west. if you would like to make a comment you can do so at booktv is the twitter handle or you can send an e-mail or leave a

comment on our facebook page facebook.com/booktv. where did you grow up, bonnie morris? >> guest: i was born on mother's day in los angeles. and i lived in west la until i was ten. a great time to live through the peace marching '60s and i had peace movement parents with a peace sign in the front window every christmas. i went to a very international elementary school that was the theater school for kids who had married graduate ucla parents. so people who had scholarships from all over the world. i have a handfull of one of the american-born kids in the classroom. when i was ten, we moved to north carolina and what a wa

wake-up call. >> host: why did you move? >> guest: my dad left his job at hews aircraft because he was asked to design an anti-air craft and he was against the war and went back to grad school and took a position with the environmental protection agency. so the next thing i knew we were in north carolina in the early '70s when the state had barely integrated and after a year of a pretty abusive local public school, my brother and i enrolled at carolina friends school, a private quaker school which was the first integrated school in the sfat state. we got a wonderful education with dynamic pteachers. i graduated from high school

there and owe them everything. >> host: where did you go to college? >> guest: american universities. i am the first au grad to have graduated with the women's study minor. it was established a year i was a seern senior and i was the jewish history major as und undergrad. spent a year in israel. when i went to grad school, i looked at women in the ultraorthodox community and i looked at a particular group new york city and i was looking at jewish fundamentalism.

it was fascinating to see what it would be like to live as a traditional jewish women but in the feminist time of our lives. so i looked at how the women in this one acytic community took the language of american feminism and applied it to their lives. and i fig -- finished it -- at up state new york ivy-league school. >> host: and you write no group of immigrant women committed to reproducing a spiritual vision of womenhood should be marginalized by there feminist historian. instead they have an obligation of acknowledging the

diverseness. >> guest: friends upgrade -- in grad school looked at the major leaders and the feedback i got was why would you pick the right-wing women who live in a community where women are not permited to do what men do. but i said you have to look at the whole apple. instead of saying why would any women live like this you ask what do these women do within their permitted sphere. many remember were the breadwinners. the men were scholarly and the women had jobs. the girls were in power to the point of being fresh and rude. no self-esteem problem there.

i looked at that community in parts it could have been me. my ancestors fled poland and russia. it could have been me if there wasn't the tragedy of the hall holocaust my roots could have remained in eastern europe but i would not have been able to be a scholar because i am a girl. so the whole yentell thing i wants to know what if you are brainy and a female in a society like this where the women are expected to be informed but domestic. i went to the women themselves and they were very outspoken and well-published and touring, frankly, with their own agenda. women who travel around the world telling women their job is

to stay in the home. in conservative women, you have multiple figure heads who live similarly as i do. they write, speak and tour and the content of what they are saying is different. but when you have women travelling and saying their place is to remain uneducated. >> host: talking about roger and myra, your mother is jewish and your dad is a surfer dude. and you write we dressed up like o >> guest: i don't know if that is my mother or father speaking.

i believe my parents intermarriage is a terrific story. it finally occurred to me to turn on my tape record during the year i was a visiting professor at harvard. they went to a high school with seg clubs that were segeration. my father was part of the jewish cardinals and thought the whole business was ridiculous. and if they didn't dismantle it, they took a stand by challenging the norms and having this radical wedding at time when you

are not suppose today marry outside of your group. their example put me on the path of everybody should be able to get married and you chose your own partner. they were very much the people who made me what i am in terms of a concern about social justice and as much as we were, you know, unusual family in terms of involvement in progress was causes, they were responsible with bedtime and everything. i think the image of a progressive family is chaotic. i subscribed to the honoring my mother and father. >> host: are they still alive?

>> guest: my mother is and she is probably watching. my father passed away four years ago. he built the volleyball courts at the washington memorial to create a free recreational space for all sit citizens for the district of columbia. >> host: eden built by eves you write: in the u.s. had grown enormously. making gangs in some area of legal and economic change but still divided. along the lines of race, class, sexuality. members of political groups such as now faced off over the question of lesbian disability and over the question of whether to condemn male super structures such as organized religion and the military or demand women's integration in to those existing halls of power. move movement leader bedy bety said

they were a distraction and embarrassment for mainstream feminist. >> guest: whew. okay. well i went from describing women in one sort of women-only space to the other end of the the spectrum. radical women music festivals. i am interested in women's communities on all ends of the spectrum. "eden built by eves" is a look at the women's music cultural and i wrote it because i was participating by then in women's music festivals that were not being describes in mainstream rock journalism. this is what gabe us melissa

etherage and tracy chapman and oth others like the indigo girls that are not household names. i was doing women's history but we were not being introduced to the history of lesbians. i was out and proud at 18. and i had the impression that there were no narratives of history that were lesbian groups that were considered worthy of scholarly status yet. i went back to bingington and did a talk and i said we all live double lives. many students were doing dock

dotrait work and went to the gay bar in the evenings to work to crea crea create spaces for each other. women's music festivals enabled women to see their partnerships as valid and loving and no one was feeding that. that validation came from artist and comedians and dramatize and it impressed be because women did all of the jobs. you needed people to run the stage. tech people, lighting designers,

and sound engineers and these are my favorite pipeleople. the tech women who enabled the sound to reach the audience. i would be sitting in my audience doing multiple documenting. i am listening to my friends, taking notes and tape recording speeches being made and taking photographs and i have one of the best archives of women's music in america today. it is in my front room in a giant pink dresser. i didn't get it would be pink but inherited it. >> host: what would the human rights movement have done for women? i don't hear about it that. >> guest: what a great question.

equality of rates shall not be denied or abridged by the united states or any state on the count of sex. that is all it says. that quality of rights was m misunderstood by so many people who thought it would mean moderating uni-sex bathrooms. i would hear week we cannot have the era because it will mean people using the same bath pl plearooms and such. but i believe if it would pass, we would have tracked women into opportunities that were closed for a while. we had to undo a lot of sexist

rulings. in 1979, i had people threatening me, sick their dogs on me. you know, quote from scripture, ordering me off the lawn in a scary way. i was right out of high school. i believe many women devoted so much of their energy and their lives to getting the era passed beginning the ally -- alice paul who started it in -- and the fact we never got 3/5th of the state to radify it is chilling. women did everything from fasting to putting all of their savings into hope we would amend

quality. >> host: let's talk calls. paul you are on book television. >> caller: i wanted to ask, in august and september, when the nation was getting to know sarah palin, did you regard the government as a powerful symbol of success or a feminist icon given the fact she built her career on her own in opposition to the sabotage? >> host: and paul, if i may, how do you feel about sarah palin? are you a supporter of her? >> caller: yes, she cleaned up the corruption in alaska and put people out of their jobs and i

liked the crusader against corruption. >> host: thank you, sir. let's get an answer. >> guest: she was selected in many ways to be an important symbol for not just women politician who had been in power as a governor, her representation who was a family women who talked admently about her kids. i think it was intended as opposition to the qualities people fear about hilary clinton. i think any women that wants to run should run. when a woman is empowered to make policy and not supportive

of women's reproduct rights i get anxious. i was not a supporter of palin. the question was if you support women pf's rights why don't you support any women? and i think there is a difference twen a female candidate and a feminist candidate and i am a staunch feminism. >> host: you can make a comment on our twitter feed or facebook page or e-mail us if you cannot get through. cici is calling from portland. >> caller: i am concerned about the term women's history because it refers to white women as a

class and i don't hear about particularly african-american. it assumes it emcompass the experience of all women >> cici, do you consider yourself a feminist? >> caller: i am just interested in equal rights for all women especially those marginalized. i don't mine that term, but i am concerned about the way in which i hear it used and hearing the way women's history for all women when people rarely talk

about women of color and their particular issues and just assume those will be taken care of as we take care of issues that white women are concerned. >> guest: boy is that a great question. you are absolutely right. this is the beg biggest concern in my teaching. if you took one of my classes i hope you would find i represent the history of african-american women and look at the position of color and feminism and how feminism made mistake and what were the critical turning points where white women had the point to not discriminate but unfortunately did. and there is a book out there that is a text book that has

been reissued called "still brave" and i look at where swe see the black history and around the time the black men got the right to vote, they went to fredrick douglas and said we supported you, what happens with women getting the vote and he had to you the vote is desirable, to us is it necessary. who us and who is missing in that? black women are missing in that statement. that is one example of a turning point. we also have women who were black sufferage being asked not to march in the march that alice

paul led. these are all examples of what has alienated to people and the fact white women were abusive slave owners add that. if you look at "12 years a slave" you see women doing injustice to other women. so it is the agenda of every decent women's studies program in the country to make sure it isn't just white feminism that is being instructed and i really appreciate your call. you can count on me. >> host: you are a professor and you make us take a quiz at the "women's history for beginne beginners" you take us take a quiz and this is question 121. what year were the first african women brought to colonial

america as slaves? i will say 1700. >> reporter: it is 1619, a little earlier than that. that is the beginning of the scenario in this country where we literally control women's bodies both as property and sexually. and again, the film, "12 years a slave" is reintroducing people to what this looks like. as a feminist professor, the biggest delima i have, is i am exposed to different religious groups calling on traditional family values and somehow they are supposed to be in opposition of what feminist stand for. let's look at the traditional values, 244 years of legalized slavery, we had people owning women's bodies, selling their

children, slave owners have every right under the law to impregnani impregnate slaves. we violated the mother-child bond in every day by separating mother and baby for profit and men women were forced to have as many children possible. that is a tradition we don't want to look at. and that only began to change much later in history. so as much as it is painful, i tell the students here is a day the subject matter is excruciating and we have to know it. >> host: in your bo boobook "women's history "you write a woman was her body for some time.

>> guest: what was considered dangerous because of her child-bearing capacity and there were a lot of misinformed doctors that believed women lost energy each month and shouldn't do sports or study. and back to cici's point and the whole range of issue. we have a view that women should be delicate and pure and too much strain hurts your womb. and then we have enslaved women doing difficult work and it didn't damage their fertility, it is being exploited even.

>> host: paul is calling from missouri. paul, are you ready to take the quiz on women's history? question 41: when will women first admitted to west point and the naval academy? >> host: i would say in 1996. -- >> caller: i would say 1996. >> guest: it was actually 1976. they were brought in by a bill signed by president ford. the first group was small and they were not able to learn from each other as they were broken up and scattered in different units to showcase we have a women in each unit. but they had a difficult road. they were the subject of media

attention and that made the other men angry they were running the same five miles. ... special interest. but yet we look at that in my women in war class. >> host: paul, go ahead with your question or comment. >> caller: quickly. our son is a graduate of west point. our daughter went one year and decided to be a pharmacist instead. [laughter] i've been a pharmacist for 40 years. when i started out, bonnie, i had 50% women in my graduating class and now there are 85% women in the graduating class. i live in a family of five brothers and four sisters. so my perspective is this, i think we must make certain that women and others now in a minority of government -- that these people be qualifand t these people be able to stand on their own feet and not pushed into leadership roles unprepared. my main thing is they must be prepared, and we all know what

that is. that is a problem we have in our government and we're suffering miss are blue for it. >> guest: paul, at thank you vey much. >> host: we have this e-mail from sophie in l.a. >> guest: great. >> host: i'd like to ask for bonnie's perspective on female characters in film and if she can point to a recent role that ill states women positively. >> guest: what a terrific question. thank you so much. in my book "girl reel" one thing i talk about is what it was like to grow up in the '70 with an increasing range of good female roles and what were the movies that my parents took me to that made a deep impression on me. my goodness. what have seen recently? i thought "philomena" was extraordinary. it blew the lid off homes where

unwed mothers were separated from families due to shame and forced to do unpaid labor, and then had to surrender their children without their consent, and we're only learning about that now. that's a true story, and her perseverance -- wow. i am very much a fan of the film, "a league of the own." i was able to meet penny marshall when she received an award in d.c. one of the few films that shows the true hit of women in sports and the all-american girl's baseball league is one of my favorite topics. penny marshall made the point she was not well-funded to produce other film or direct a film about women in sports. she had to cast her brother, her daughter, the guy who plays in umpire was a cameraman or whatever. so we still have a really

regrettable look of women behind the cameras, and it's startling to my students who see hollywood as very liberal, that in fact it's one of most job-segregated areas in our country. the number of women directors and the women who do sound and lighting is regretably very small. i think we can do much better. i remember when barbara streisand appeared in "the mr. here has two faces." she was vilifiedded for being pushy and other euphemisms for being a jew wishish -- jewish woman, and i was extra in a film here in washington. so on the asset of a mainstream hollywood film, while thinking about the forward of women in

film and this was 1997. everybody working on the movie was a guy. there was a makeup woman justs a you see in cartoons, and somebody who brought in the catering snacks, and everybody else was male. very different in my experience working at women's music festivals where everyone doing the plumbing and the sound tower is a woman. so not only was i startled by how mass felipe massa christiant was, and people are saying, move out of the way, honey, and i was playing a naval lieutenant so i was in uniformment lots of thought-provoking material, and i took notes in my journal while sitting in jody foster's chair. so i had a good accounting what it's like to appear in a film

while looking at how media tariks women directors and all of the frist for -- the grist for the mill. >> host: knick reno, nevada, here's a question from the quiz. in what year did american women win the vote and can you name the amendment? >> caller: 1919, and it's -- forget the name of the amendment -- is that close? >> guest: that's pretty good. it's 1920, the 19th amendment. and -- but thank you. and the 18th, for the record, is prohibition. that's important because a lot of people were afraid to give the women the vote, fearing women would ban alcohol. actually prohibition passes before women have the vote. thats a good piece of trivia. >> dick go ahead with your question. >> caller: this is a very wonderful subject today, and i was born in the '40s, so i saw this whole evolving women coming into leadership, and getting into higher education, for an

example, when i was in college in the '60s in my accounting class there was one woman, and that same college today it's 60% women. so, these whole things are moving in a wonderful direction. the question i have, bonnie, globally, what percent of the higher education enrollment today are women versus men? >> guest: that's a great question. i don't have the answer globally. in the united states women are the majority on college campuses, and the point you bring up about the shift in accounting, and the previous caller about the shift in pharmacy, this is very important. these are great questions nos. one ever planned for women to be enrolled in colleges in equal numbers, and the fact that women have now surpassed men in enrollment, this is not in anyone's plan, and it's alarming to some people because so much funding has been set aside for,

say, women's sports, that was never planned on. when title 9 resident was passed in -- title ix was pass fled 1972. says schools that receive federal dollars may not discriminate on the basis of sex, women were a small percentage of college enrollment so didn't seem a whole lot of money would have to be shifted to women's sports or women would be as high a precious in higher education as they are. now the fear is education is being femininized because there's so many'em. there have been changes necessary because women do attend college classes in larger numbers. it's a huge contrast of the situation for women, again, in places like afghanistan, pakistan, globally, big challenge for a lot of girls, but, say, throughout africa, not being able to afford school

fees, not having shoes, not having clothing, not having sanitary products, things we don't like to think about but that prevent 12-year-old from going to class. what i found is that the more that women take courses which we once considered masculine, the more the field seems leak something women do, like pharmacy. the fact we hey women in medical school, law school, graduate school, there were quotas for years to keep women out of the ivy league, and the harvard and yale, for instance, had a quota, for every two women admitted three men had to be admitted on campus. so women had to be much better in terms of their test scores and so forth. when i look at the campuses where i teach, there is a majority of women but that doesn't mean that the women are

going to take women's studies or have a lot of female professors. it means the undergrad enrollment is majority female. so you can still have a fee mail environment but not -- female environment but not learn women's history or have female role models. >> host: kneel tweets how do you see marriage continuing as an institution if women are going to equal or surpass men in society. >> guest: okay. well, first of all, take this opportunity to say on national tv that of course i'm an advocate for gay marriage. and again, as the daughter of an intermarriage, i have seen the possibility of lasting marriage where people predicted failure because of difference. i think that marriage can only be strengthened by the equality of the participants. i believe that what is challenging in our time is that

much of the law around marriage and households is based on the idea of there being a head of household and a subordinate. so the fact we legalized both parties in terms of their access to controlling money or making decisions, that is hard to adapt. we come from a position where the woman -- everything she brought to the marriage became he husband's property. that goes back to ancient greek and roman law. a woman was a child bride, treated as a child, and all of her concerns are taken care of by the husband because he was much older and more educated. she never became an adult. she was perpetual minor in the eyes of the law. never participated in politics or the economy, and that ended up all the way through history affecting english law and then colonial law and then early american law, and then law, law,

law, right up until world war ii. technically, the decisions had been made by the husband, and women could not operate separately. moreover, married woman is distinguished from an unmarried woman by our forms of address. miss and police. ms. was a huge big deal, an effort to mask a woman's marital status. we mask a man's. a lot of people don't know that ms. was adapted in spanish, sa, for sa. so you're not senior you're -- -- i was aware of these issues early school we had

a subscription to ms. magazine, and aparticipated in a class there based very much on the articles i've read in ms. magazine that interested me and then i had a my own subscription as a gift on my 14th birthday, and that covered the range of the questions the caller is interested in. the changing nature of marriage, how the law reflected women as an independent agent in any love relationship and so on. >> host: rod is calling from florida. roger, here's your quiz. when were women first allowed to participate in the olympic games? >> caller: 1960s. >> guest: actually the 1920s.

eat the ear '22 or '28. this was a big part of the problem whereby we had the modern olympics introduced in 1896, but the gentleman who was in charge for many years did not support women going to the games. he felt that women in sports were unappealing and it was improper. there was actually a women's olympics held in france. when women were permitted interest the olympics there was very famous event where they ran a race and critics were frightened by the image of women being tired and lying down on the track, and then women were banned from doing any kind of distance running right until the 1970s. women were banned from the boston marathon until katherine switzer ran nonetheless, and

these changes have all happened quite recently. but, yes, women were at the olympics in the 20s. >> host: go ahead with your question. >> caller: i failed misser --. i'm writing a book on american woman, and i thought -- my question to professor is that are you -- have you done any study of on the indian american woman? >> guest: you bet. and hello to my childhood friend and various other. the neighborhood i lived in, in l.a. in the '60s, had many families from india. i was very aware of the lives of indian women first n first and second grade i had quite a few friends who were from india. i learned to say -- i was

interested in the -- of course when you're a kid, the holidays and the language, but i actually incorporated those images into the stories i wrote as a little girl. as i grew older i became much more aware of the dilemma women in terms of thecast system -- the caste system. what i utilized today was textbook call "women: the unfinished revolution" which presents viewpoints of women globally and a lot of material about women in india. on semester c, where i worked as a visiting faculty on two global tours, we went to india. i took my students to bangalore to a woman's book store, and we

spent a wonderful afternoon there, and spend time with cartoonist and many women writers. that was terrific. the week spent in india remains a central part of the curriculum. for my students it was very moving to meet with women who were working on behalf of women's rights at the time, and were directed to look at that again with recent concerns about violence against women in india, really getting a lot of media attention in the country. but, absolutely. and i was very affected by writings by indian men. as a kid, because the library had a lot of books who were donated. holiday be who rides tiger" and book about the untouchables. so this is one of my favorite subjects. thank you for asking, raj. >> host: we are talking with professor bonnie morris, who teaches at george washington

university and georgetown universities here in washington, dc, also the author of six nonfiction books, beginning in 199 with the high school scene in the '50s. 1998. eden built by eve, 1999. girl reel, her memoir. revenge of the women studies professor, came out in 2009, and her most recent book, women's history for beginners. i should mention that women's history for beginners is the book tv book club selection for the month of february. >> guest: woo-hoo. >> host: good to become tv.org and there's a tab called book club, and you can par tis it's in our discussion at booktv.org. we'll post video and reviews and articles up there tomorrow. so, the discussion will begin tomorrow. we'll also be posting on a regular basis discussion questions. so, i hope you'll be able to

participate. bonnie morris' women's history for beginners is our february 2014 book selection on booktv. next call from jan in wilmington, north carolina, jan, back to the quiz. when were women first as mitted to yale university? >> caller: um, i believe it was also in the early '70s, '73, '74. >> guest: where around there. it was around 1976. you could take classes before that but integration into the ivy league comes after title title ix, and my husband went to west point and he wondered how they did all the things he did. my basic question is, how do you answer whether the the feminist woman against a conservative or

a controversitive woman against a feminist -- the opposite contrast of allowing them to believe their beliefs, whether the woman is a feminist and she doesn't believe in guns or war, or she is a conservative and goes out and handles rifles or does hunting or camping, or stays home and does the knitting and crocheting. what do they chap each other apart and not get together as women. >> guest: what a great question. got a couple of years? well, okay. you're raising the question, do you have to subscribe to one set of political beliefs to be a feminist, and another question you're raising is, why do women in failing to unite, waste a lot of energy tearing each other down. there's a lot of trashing that goes on in the women's movement.

no doubt about it. and i've certainly experienced some of that myself. i believe, though, what you're bringing up is very significant, and that is how many issues do women disagree on where you have more than one stance? as moving women forward. for example, the question of women in the military is very complicated. one feminist viewpoint might be, yes, let women have every opportunity, including combat if they qualify. close no occupations to women. everyone should have access. another feminist viewpoint might be women shouldn't kill or take par not militaristic enterprises. and these are both women's viewpointses and both very significant viewpoints. another example would be does it empower a woman to participate

in football or is it violent? these are issues where there's a lot of dissents. i think there's space for disagreement. i become concerned when a woman is voting -- going to forbid women to get services they need. i think that among my circle of friends there's a lot of disagreement on different issues, and i think in the classroom it's very important that i create a climate where everyone's viewpoint is welcome. i think i do that reasonably well. the fact i also have office hours and e-mail where students can disagree privately with something somebody else might have said and don't have to engage in a public debate. that's helpful. i think it takes a while for students to bring up the kind of

confidence that i just have naturally. and it's very hard to argue in a public forum when you're in your first year of college. it takes a while for students to develop the skills in maybe arguing with someone in the next seat. i don't have an answer to your question in terms of how women discourage one another from following their own goals, if those goals feel right for them, and i know a big criticism of feminism is it made women feel if they didn't have a career they weren't valuable. it made women say, i'm just a housewife. that is a problem because it was supposed to be about choices. you choose to be a stay-at-home mom, rock on. like my mom, who also worked as well. but, yes, those different approaches to empowerment should be honored. >> host: whatwave are we in now? >> guest: what wave? >> host: you said the second

wave. >> guest: correct. there's a lot of disagreement whether it's useful to continue thinking in waves. the first wave was seen as the movement primarily by young feminists of color to really look at what is call intersectionallity. race, class, gender. youth neck heritage, racial standpoint, inform your feminism. i would say that right now, the predicament is everybody is reacting against their mother's feminism. the students i have now are the daughters of moms who were activists in the '70s and they have to make their own definition. as radical as our mothers were in the '70s, the fact they were mothers makes what they did square, if you follow. in other words, i understand it's normal to rebel against your parents. i didn't necessarily. i'm really close to my parents. but the idea that you have to come up with a new definition

understandable. what everyone is still interested in are these issues of the body. the majority of papers my students do are about women in the media, how women are made to feel negative about their bodies, excessive dieting, girls being pushed to dress very sexually at an early age, that toddlers and tierra's program where little girls are pushed interest beauty pageants at age three. all of the ways in which we sect allize kids, which is a big problem in a country dealing with a pedophilia scandal here and there. those endlessly interest my students. they're also very interested in international issues of the body. how do we evaluate something like female sir circumcision. what do we do with issues of women who are expected to have

what another definition might be genital mutilation. how do you control that from a health perspective. all of this material that speaks to my students who are of dating and reproductive age. they're not as quick to want to look at property issues of the 1850s. and that also is a reminder that each wave of feminism is addressed different things based on who is participating. >> host: from revenge of the women's studies professor, you write: when students don't like the grade on their exams and blast off an e-mail my first caution to them is always: stop, think, would you speak to a male professor this way? >> guest: yeah. i now am very familiar with ambitious students who fall apart at the sight of an aye-minus and that's a hallmark of our excellent universities

here in the district. but i know that on some occasions i've had students confront me in ways i don't think they would in an older male professor. when i first started teaching no one believed i was professor. i had several appointments in places where there weren't a lot of women faculty, and i would be challenged if i went into the faculty room or would have actually -- i had some students say, you're in the wrong place, this is a him in war class, on the first day, and i says that's right. i'm the professor. so stick around, okay? i was asked at harvard to show my i.d. when i entered the english department faculty lounge, where i was meeting a colleague to have lunch. and then the embarrassed guy who confronted me said, oh, well, but you're too young and pretty to be a professor. and i'm like, really? what does that say that the image of a woman professor is some kind of angry hag? and these are -- these all are

events and encounters that made up my one, woman play, and the book is based on what it was like touring with a play that really engaged audiences to look at what's going on at schools. >> dana, twitter: why are liberal feminists so antisecond amendment? paraphrase: god created humans but sam colt made them equal. >> guest: i think that the problem of gun violence is a very significant one. i think there's a lot of women who come out of the peace movement and the movement that looks at violence in all its forms. i think a lot of women do feel safe if they have been sexually assaulted and are experiencing post traumatic stress, often proficiency with firearms does give that kind of -- the

covering victim more confidence and so forth. but i would also say that women are on the front lines of seeing how gun violence affects communities. they're in hospitals. because women still are the majority of nurses and teachers, the issue of gun violence in schools and how it's affecting how kids are -- the psychologically terrified. i think that is a women's issue. >> host: bonnie more morris, do you have any male heroes? >> guest: you bet. birch bayh, very much behind title ix. certainly. the -- my goodness. now i'm going to race around mentally -- >> host: go go ahead and do that. if you come up with one throughout the program you can add it in. that was a curve ball. bruce in maryland. bruce, which black woman ran for president of the u.s. in 1972?

this is from bonnie morris' quiz. >> last name davis? >> guest: no. shirley chisolm. i was taken to see her. she poke at duke university when i was 11. my mother took me to see her and that had a big impact on my life. i i chose a film about ore campaign in my class other. >> host: go ahead withure question or comment. >> caller: when you say -- >> host: you know what, i just -- i apologize. bruce, i cut you off. i have no idea why i did that and it was inexcusable, and i apologize to you. debra in detroit, michigan. hi, debra. >> good afternoon. how are you both and a special greeting to professor morris. enjoying the show. wish i'd gotten that question

because my statement was going start out with three of my political she rowes. shirley chisolm, maxine waters and joanne watson who just went off council in december, and have something experience working on campaigns as well as going through a lot of respect for marie wilson, who was the author of the book "closing the leadership gap" and i had the opportunity to meet her and go through one of her programs here in michigan. one of the things, women are very unrepresented. the other is just how that intersects with race, and gender, and for african-american women, it just seems to be -- you have to transcend the issue of race... thought to

looking at how this plays out in terms of the kinds of policy that we're seeing. to me there's an attack on the working class nowdays. >> guest: absolutely. >> host: professor, if you can hang on, debra, i wasn't prepared but now i have your quiz question it you would like to take one: who is the first black woman to win an olympic gold medal. >> caller: that would have been -- she ran track -- will ma rudolph. >> guest: actually, i think alice coachman before, but wilma rudolph then, yes. i have posters of both in my office. so let me answer you question. my great privilege is to occasionally work with donna brazil at georgetown.

she is on the faculty of women's studies and i defer to her in terms of her class on women in american politics addresses many of these issues from her perspective as a long-time campaigner and critic. in terms of, yes, could we have better representation of working women and women issues if we had more diversity and representation? absolutely. and what is great about shirley chisolm. she was put on the agriculture committee as a freshman representative, and she refused saying, you know, i represent bedford stuyvesant and we don't have a lot of agriculture trip. need to address my constituent issues. i just love that. by the way, my grandfather lived in bedford a little boy. a jewish immigrant kid. and in the rate, the idea that we don't have a full

representation says a great deal first of all, it means it is very difficult for women to run. a lot of women are reluctant to do so. this is often credited to the monopoly and have prepared are having difficulty fund-raising. a think there's a lot of reluctance on the part of many women to subject themselves to the criticism that comes when you ran for office. while some believe that if women run, the campaign is less of a focus on gender and race. we see that in the story of surely chisolm. she was treated very differently in terms of femininity. >> host: guess what, back from laurel, md., and ilmenite cut off. hi. thanks. i'll apologize. >> sorry.

>> let's are right. first what i was saying was the book by sheila rothman, went into detail about how the women -- the reason women wanted to vote was two things. they are superior and want to limit participation in the work force. she goes into detail about how they did that. the point i want to ask, talking about title mind -- not to adeline, women's studies courses there is no man studies. now, the reasons she says, engineering is dominated. one woman in the class. obviously in most colleges uc that more for women than men, been there. all sorts of things you could have been a men's studies course and has never been brought up before. >> actually, we do have a lot of class is that look at specifically masculinity. we have that and gw. there are a lot of class is no

that are more likely to be defined in gender studies and that look at an experience. there is obviously a great deal right now in transgendered. so actually looking a man is found in women's studies where it might not be found elsewhere. in response class we began with men's history because i like to point out that it is not true that men always played sports. men as well as women were banned from sports by our puritan ancestors it up the sports for the devils pastime. only later did men become involved in football. the issue that men's studies violates camino, equal rights is an interesting argument. i will take you on because i think what happens is in the same way when you have a black student union and white students say, well, then began to have a white student union, programs,

groups, institutions that began to rectify an invisibility or lack of opportunity do not necessarily than impede other students' rights to see themselves as a majority of time students will get history in every class they take. they will not often be told, of, by the way, this did not apply to women. by the way, no women were allowed to do this. women's studies is simply set up as an elective, no one is required to take it. it is a part of an option for furthering in-depth study in higher education. you get to specialize. here is a chance to specialize in why women were in the past forbidden from sports or military, law, medicine, higher education, diplomacy. are so many schools still close to girls? why do we see these statistics.

oftentimes these are uncomfortable questions. a cluster is a good place to negotiate how we know we know about women's lives, and back to the question about male feminists i admire, john stuart mill's who wrote on this -- on the subjection of women, he was an early proponent of women telling their troops to man, and he was also one of the first guys to rename the problem of domestic violence. he said, we don't know when ministers because women are afraid. they often live in contexts where physically intimidated. so we have joanna addressing these questions in the 1870's. it did not keep the first great crisis center until 1972. one hundred years later. for all of these reasons in some

scenarios it is necessary to have a safe space to provide backup information on women. but most universities also include courses on masculinity is. and i address that, my class is. >> host: 202, 585-3880. 5a53881. al west if he can't get through a false to talk with author and professor bonnie morris you can send it tweet. you can make a comment on the facebook page. or an e-mail. we have all a little over an hour and 20 minutes left with our guest this month. but we like to visit our authors in their workplaces of their homes to see how they write in with a right. the producer of this program this is it with professor morris at george washington university.

>> my first ideas for next project, usually on my notebook and many in the back section. making it separate from this is my day. no, my god, here's what i want to do next. i usually start with the title and an outline. almost immediately break it into your how many jobs are in this idea and would that correspond to a decent number of chapters. and then which is the first chapter? back of flush out because when you send a book proposal to run under their want concepts, content, sample chapters. i'm embarrassed to say i automatically think in terms of what can i show a publisher. you have to block -- boil everything down to not a sound bite, but a very succinct junk.

usually in writing almost all of the books i've published i do the middle chapter first. maybe an introduction and then something like chapter fiver chapter seven. often the thing i am best prepared to write is building of something i might have written even ten years before. i kind of pirate off of my own past work. i right in the middle of the day because that is why office hours are. and what i have done is, of course, i have acquired a lot of time in my office when students can come and meet with me. but they don't. it really the prefer to e-mail. a couple of years ago i realized i was using the time when a person is to command to work on chapters. and now most of my productivity seems to be between 1030 into.

end of the downside of that is that when students to come to seem me, and my greatest fault is sometimes i will show on my face that i am on my being interrupted. that is the biggest and. i will immediately cringe and apologize. let me just take this off the screen. the fact is, have a very comfy office with a great tape player. i'm hitting myself, but i have mixed tapes of women's music. by coming here on the weekend and no one is around in the building, man, will make a copy, blasts the music. i am just so happy. ♪

♪

>> host: bonnie morris, what

is it about harriet this . despite? >> guest: i brought my copy. she's a liberal the wants to be a writer. and i wanted to be a writer from part of -- pretty much the age of 56. the book is unusual in that she is an knows a liberal who is not just writing about dollars and bunnies but is spying and adults and josh -- trying to figure out there makes messages. independent. there's a lot going on in that book. that was the book that all of the girls in my generation or breeding.

and the fact that here was a normal, some young girl also want to be a writer, i did not know at the time of the author was gay. amelie fauna after a very difficult pre internet air search. but if it's you have lived in greenwich village or in the contemporary, a lot of other women had an influence on the arts. and harry it struck me at the time, you know, a little kid in sneakers and blue jeans race of them, why wouldn't i identify with that. many of my other friends did. >> host: you also talk about tony armstrong jr. >> just to my friend is a women's music journalist and he brought me to writing about women music festivals with an editorial line and may be a much better writer.

i'm very grateful. also a friend i love. >> host: right below that is the michigan woman's music festival. >> guest: i am a coordinator for the community center. i tried to the live year round as a famine festival culture, meaning than it is a place that identifies a hall and where most of my beloved friends return annually to create a city of women once a year. writing about that experience can be personal. one of the reasons i am grateful that tony, out of her own basement running a magazine and invited major right for hot wire , you know, get to the point in what do you mean, what the turn to say. i think that everybody requires a benevolent and if they want to be a writer. i came out of academia and can be quite long winded.

it's a different kind of writing, but it is also wanted to create an accurate record about what women musicians were doing. so, yes, festival culture, not just michigan, but the national women's music festival, sister fire, the new england women's music intreat. finally on mother went with me to nine different festivals. my father went to one which had men as well as women in the audience. those are the most valued memories for me in terms of taking in as well as reproducing women's culture. >> men were welcome? >> yes. quite a few were in public and news. national was at a college campus sister fire was held for years at tacoma park middle school, an open lot. and then there are a couple others as well.

it just depends on if it is a gay unit of privately owned land . >> revenge of the women's studies, i think you are talking with either a book and air or a chairman of your department. you were told to always make the main character of your book a boy to increase sales. rose will read books about little boys clubbable is all but a book about a girl. >> in know, that is actually a job interview i had been in less. i was brought in as a candidate from women's history position. the gentleman interviewing me was the head of the history department. he licked my syllabi and said, well, i think there's a problem. all these courses have the word woman in the title. i thought, yes. and don't think you say to the specialist in chinese history the take the word china? that might flip out some of our caucus was students. was told to my face in an interview for women's history

professor, the word woman will turn off the male students. this was quite recently in the span of american history. in any way, in that section i am reflecting, new market to a general audience, the main imperative is not to offend the male and a male students or whomever. then i found that that was a message i got in a job situation that i really did not expect. >> george washington and georgetown professor bonnie morris is the author of six nonfiction books. the high schools seem in the fifties cannot in 97. the women in america, 1998. even bill by eve, 1999. revenge of the women's studies professor, 2009. her most recent women's history for beginners. are you working on a book out? >> i certainly am.

i'm working on several. and i should add i have three other books that were supposed to be in print, all of which experience to the press going bankrupt just as the book was going to be published. a sign of the times. i am working on a woman's sports textbook, to correspond with my class, when i am also working on a book about the erasure of recent women's culture, the disappearance of women's bookstores and events and why that is happening and that is very much a look at how we have built ldp tea history and to many of our universe is now, with the al is being written out there is less of our representation in terms of prices and look at the female experience. what i want to do is talk about what it's like to live through an era that is shifting. are we going to lose information

about women's lives that we will wish we had later on in the same way that poetry was celebrated and then burned, fragmented. now we wish we had it in front of us. i see a lot of contempt for the kind of achievements that were really centering around lesbian activism which impelled feminism for awareness 70's and 80's. now there is this very type of birkenstock-wearing, granola- eating women. i was happy to be that person. a greek poet in the island of lesbos, that's where we get the word lesbian. sixth century bc or you can say the pc, before the coming era. she rode in a way this simultaneously described everyday life for it and a and

grow expected to marry. terrified of dying in childbirth a lot of that is about their fear of losing their maidenhead, but she also had women lovers and wrote about those relationships in a romantic way. one of her most moving pieces, you know, you may laugh, but some day someone will think of us. and i think that has made me really committed to ensuring she is rendered. >> dan in bridgewater new jersey, you have been patient. please go ahead with your question or comment. >> i had the unique opporunity to see the feminist issues unfold in my grandmother's generation of 401, mother's generation. my own generation and world war two. and this was in eastern europe. coming to america and being

exposed to feminism in the 60's and 70's while i was married. i have a chance to see feminism unfold in asia and had a chance to see it with my daughters and granddaughters. there is spectrum there that shows many variations and complications that women feel no matter what kind of support, the family setting, they find themselves. >> host: what barriers -- some of your observations, particularly when your mother and grandmother. >> caller: this is in eastern europe. the women were close to going to be sure, is a slur jews, but if they mated in really push them to excel, and when they excel

they were recognized for their position. but i -- what i am really interested in is a complaint about a certain switch of feminism that was going from women in general into lesbian area which was something completely different. and the -- and as the sun to a grandfather of grocer mayor may not go into an area, i am deeply concerned that we are being distracted from the real issue, the woman sitting in a new society by some of the particularities. >> host: thank you so much. >> caller: as a position coming from a family of positions and in those days the were no female positions. we would and still have to do the medical care of women, we

would find that this kind of social notion that are going on today are not dealing the medical crises that worried continually face, the high price they pay for child birth, all these things. and it just seems to me that not talking about women in the normal flow of situations given a much we know dislike not talk about men in the normal -- and getting kind of stuck in the laws in homosexual -- >> host: i think we get the point. >> guest: this is a great subject. first of all, i want to refer to him very good book title by suzanne pharr, homophobia, weapon of sexism. one of the reasons their is a focus on lesbian aunt in the in women's studies is not only to cover the full range of women's

lives and experiences, but also as long as a woman is shamed for not getting married or not being attracted to a man or expected to put all her energy into attracting a man, that is behind a lot of the limitations of women allowed to do. as long as a woman can be pushed into a relationship with the man because if she will say yes to have someone is going to call her lesbian, that is an issue, a huge issue in terms of sexual violence in the military. prove your straight by going with me. so it is very important to look at, and lesbian is the worst and impossibly how does that affect women submitting to forge relationships of man or four going arr burch and these are what have you. that is important. i agree with you that the majority of women around the world to marry and become

mothers and therefore we have to look at the conditions and the emergencies in reproductive health care. but we also see lesbians as mothers which is important. and we see how shabbily they are treated in the health care system. our partnerships recognized? we have a checkerboard legal system and the united states. state-by-state there is no guarantee if you go into an emergency room at your corner to the partner is permitted to see you. you have say so over your partners kid that you are allowed to adopt as a second. that can result in everything from death to the complete alienation of lesbians in the health care system which then leads to death. so for all of these reasons women studies have to look at who was served by women's issues, who is treated with dignity and respect in the everyday. what happens if you have to come

out of somebody who has been life in their hands. you should not have your partner there. it's your death bed. these are all issues that in the u.s. are shared by her current focus on the lcd team movements. globally you have to remember that homosexuality is still punished with the death penalty in nations. in terms of focus on women's health crises, often see lots of areas where they're is a very mixed message about have grocer participate in sports, with the sheets. again, it depends on what region. it would be very different for somebody who's dealing with famine in northern africa parses the needs of millions soccer player and northern virginia. all of those issues can be dressed in women's studies. thank you for letting me talk about them. >> on your quiz in women's history for beginners, who

founded burn more college? arab bismarck, and i do not think that is the correct answer >> no. do know what to my no who it is, but i am so distracted by this last discussion. am i going to hear about this. forgive me. the dynamic woman. everyone should read the book to believe in women, which looks at the founders and activists the women's colleges. >> paul, hemlock michigan. paul, who was the first woman admitted to medical school in the united states? >> you know, i am trying a blank. i do not know. >> host: that makes two of us. go ahead with your question, and >> caller: my comment, violence has been used -- i am the father of three daughters. i have three granddaughters. violence has been used against everybody on this world watching this very. when it comes to my children i

would lay down my life for them. but my question is, my culture lead to we have people abusing women in the middle east and the eastern bloc of europe. it's a cultural thing. the south pacific women should be held in higher regard. my mother was held in higher regard. and just don't understand how cultures of formulated their idea of keeping women down. >> do you consider yourself a feminist? >> no. i am a man who believes in equal rights for buddy. that's just humanism. >> anyway, the answer is elizabeth blackwell was the first to die she was admitted to geneva medical colleges joke. okay -- >> as a joke? >> yes. she applied and it was put to a vote of the male student body, and it thought it was so hilarious and that she would surely fail. there were amazed when she

showed up and completed the course of study. okay. why is there violence against women? and it is local as well as global. it is not limited to any nation. is an issue in every country. the fbi can offer all kinds of better statistics this showcase some much as a part of american culture. the well to keep women limited or to treat women as property, which is supported by custom and loss since time immemorial, lot of it is simply a part of patriarchy which enables men to control women and anyone in their household. that included in ancient history servants as layers and concubines and unix, a man with the power to punish anyone. the earliest go on and we have shows that there were already dozens and dozens of laws about

controlling women and not to punish them and distinctions between good women and bad. also gateman the right to put their lives and their children to death if they disobeyed. so it begins with scriptural support violently controlling anyone who is disobedient to read and the absolute authority that men have over wives. and it moves into the control families. and some people take that to a violent extreme. is really only been identified as coming in out, but lodge the behavior in my lifetime. >> host: they just gave me the answer. just up the answer. in the control room their riding up words. is it martha carey bryn mawr, does that ring any bells? >> no, somebody else.

>> host: chris in seattle. please go ahead with your questions or comments c-span.org hi, bonnie. as chris williamson calling. >> caller: no, my god. but this is one of the most important figures in women's music is album should be known and unknown then to put its board the future of olivia records in the best selling album the changer and the change . >> caller: i called because i'm so proud to see you on this show. i watch it pretty regularly to see who is writing about what begins as a writer myself, you know, i feel it is my job to lean into the wheel. i love the view of harriet because i think musicians and writers, it's what we do. is are we get the pulse of life by listening. and you are such an avid listener. and your embrace is huge. i have seen it get wider and

wider. and so i just want to thank you for keeping the heart. because you know when i came in there just weren't any courses in the saddle. and so i learned by heart and at the feet of mostly, you know, really intense women who were intent on changing the world for women bit by bit by bit. so i just want to throw this sen. the cheyenne nation as a great saying. kuna -- update on my grandmother's like crazy because they are the keepers of the story. the greek word history is just the story. you know, we are in charge of the story of our lives. the cheyenne nation says when the rights of women are on the ground and nation is finished. so i think the work you are doing is just imperative to

keeping, you know, heart of this world up there where it needs to be on the high road. and i love the one of your influences was you enter the wave and afraid and you always have. you're entering the second wave of afraid. >> host: how did you get involved in the music festival industry? >> caller: would not call it an industry, i tell you that. it is a way of life is what it is. a been a musician, a liar. bin of the independent record companies, three of them three different times. olivia records and around our round table. that's how women gather their ideas, circular early, they asked me about sexism in the industry. i have a major label for about a

second. then i was thrown back in the pool of the big gene pool of musicians. there are a lot of us who are invisible. i know bonnie, you have been addressing the invisibility of women. you bring it forward, bring it forward. but get this project of this. like this woman will look at that. the names, the history, all of it so that we are not invisible. when i have done is mostly without many party and obviously, a few at the top. a love song to a woman by a woman. wrote to me and said, had to drive up the road because i was weeping so hard. the address the heart of the thing, of the matter. honestly the man he said he was a humanist, probably not a feminist, if the embrace those wider, you will see, sir, that with all due respect feminists

are humanists. this is the human condition. we are born, we have this little time where we can do some good work and we check at the end, like a grand hotel. bonnie has been there at the hotel desk checking people in, checking them out, noting their passes to live. thank you. this is just need calling to say how proud. you are the aero we shot from the bow in the 70's. we shot it high and far as we could, and you are still flying. >> guest: there is nothing like having your will mall : in the viet supplement to make you feel like you can die happy. chris is on the cover of my bill. she is one of the musicians and is featured. of course that is one of tony armstrong. she is right there. and, of course, have every album

chris ever recorded including the first one on a different label. in the work together. one of my best memories is chris singing in the arena at the temple of diana on and with this which is also, of course, very famous place where paul's letters to the ephesians told all women to submit to their husbands. the women's music tradition, of course, predates the 70's movement. i am writing about that now. there were, of course, women's songs in every culture. the oral tradition is what made women popular. i want to credit press for something else related to and an earlier caller who asked me to remember stories of women of color. very good about for grounding native women's stories in her music. grandmothers land is one of my favorite songs.

and it has been very important to me to incorporate the histories of native american and native canadian women. aboriginal women of all backgrounds. when i lecture in new zealand maori woman stories and their historical oppression and survival. one of the things i am proud of right now is that i am helping and will men's basketball team get to the all native basketball tournament in british columbia. these are women income from what used to be called the queen charlotte islands off the coast of british columbia. far west as you can go. and it is one of the oldest known affected by the ice age sites, north america. that there you find women who are members of the tribe and others who are trying to preserve ancient ways as well as participating in modern life.

and that story also is often left out of women's history will will focus entirely on black and white women and struggle. the experiences of native american women, not having that right to be an american citizen until 1924, let's start there, highest degree of sterilization without consent on many reservations. but on the other hand, stories of as well. moments with -- women with great names and great traditions of poets and writers. all of that is important, and i appreciate that what i found in the women's movement is women like christian and not leaving that out. another woman who brings in a diverse perspectives the women's life and saw in performance. >> host: berkeley girl 63. so excited to hear from chris

williamson, the changer and a change is a must have every collection. next call comes from renee. from bonnie morris's book about women's history for beginners, what is griswald versus connecticut? >> i have no idea. >> okay. >> that is the 1965 case that says that married couples have a right to get a birth control prescription from a doctor. the grizzled or couple in connecticut and found they could not come even as a married couple, get rid control. they brought the case to the state and it became reinterpreted as a right to privacy issue. >> go ahead with your question or comment. >> avenue. i will do my best year. so much going through my mind. i just went on line in order but

when you have the discussion about the first african woman to set foot in the americans, that really piqued my interest, the valuable lighter the probably are. i had to have your book. and i considered the history of bravery and domination and oppression of african-americans, women in this country, i wonder, do you write in your book about the identity struggles that black women have in trying to align themselves with movements throughout history? what to take seriously and what to not take seriously. i wonder, do you feel that they have made an adequate attempt, with a recognized or not, to try

to put forth a chronological and realistic history of our struggle in this country? >> yes. >> thank you. >> thank you very much. obviously i was very affected by the writings of alice walker, dream lord, also be work nobel hunt. there are a lot of really dynamic critics. i have very good libraries of writings of black feminism to all lot of literature. i would say that d.c. is definitely a place where you hear those voices. busboys and pellets as a location where some of the best ratings by black feminist critics can be bought. i was part of moments spoken word stage for 14 years which was of very divers the new for

women to read poetry into a microphone about identity, black and female, and i participated as well in a lot of readings and were shut. georgetown actually had in the spring of 89 a very intense three day conference. very contentious. one of the issues as to what degree in the addenda -- any woman identifies primarily with her racial ethnic group and then when the focus shifts to being a woman in the community. i will show that in the group of women i am, you know, women. if someone makes an anti-semitic joke that i am jewish and so forth. so what i find is the difficulties bring this material into the classroom or you might

have, let's say, 20 white students and three black students. the black students are put on the spot to represent everything about black women's history, but they might be reading about it for the first time. white students will assume that they should be on the defensive and cannot participate in the discussion. those are real issues of how the eighth generation transmits important material to the next. i would definitely say that we are not given enough information , in particular about the lives of black women in slavery. melson think it is difficult to put a focus on that or on some of my parts without keeping a kind of feeling of violation at the forefront. this is the same issue in feminist teddy's. where do you draw the line between the history that paints

you as a victim in this tree that makes students feel truly empowered? you have to look at the outrageous and the violations, but you also have to talk about the tools that empower women to survive, koop, teach each of the to read, the songs of slavery, "escape naps through the underground railroad in the brewery. hit it rebel, take x of revenge, runaway continually to be reunited in the white women to head the ruling and a white woman he turned her away. all of that. again, credit my mother with putting me early on the path to studying racism. she remembers when i was a toddler sitting on the front steps with me explaining why the trash collectors were black. and became very involved in

looking at these issues for my young age because i have a short story row in the second grade on martin luther king. the language of slavery. i was always an unusual kid, but the story is there. in a story and was able to relate the struggle for black and tentative with my own understanding of famine and jewish identity. when you start a conversation with a kid it will flower. a lot of people believe you have to delay those conversations until may you know, you are in college. a lot of people don't go to college. this is why we have to get women's studies, black history, everything into the schools and those schools. the person who founded burn more has come to me in the sense is the. >> that was my next thing. i wrote it down. i gave you that information.

tweeting in, please ask professor morris to marry her story about asking president clinton to watch the women's basketball. >> well, i know i talked about the inner layer. shore. so already a woman sports fan and basketball fan 191st began teaching in 1994 to my went to a double header, and this was when they would have one to get the dahlia the men's game in the women's game, a long afternoon. i was going to see two games, but was surprised after the terminal detector which it never happened. somebody said the president's ear. it was very sensible. you can go right up and shake his hand. and the man began to play. and then the president got us to leave in it i was startled and

then outraged. here is the commander in chief who is supposed to support channel nine lot at that time by the way the women's team and a better record than the man and was going to walk out with his daughter when the woman took the court. i don't think so. cahuenga of. i'm a woman's professor here. like to ask the state support to women's team. it would be importance of women of america and your daughter to show support. he shook my hand and said, would love to stay, but i have a meeting of the white house. now like to my watch and said, well, you can watch the first half. please sit down. he went back and set them. and give a direct order to the president of the united states demanded became the first president to phone in congratulations to the winning women's team of the n.c.a.a. championship the march.

as like to think i had something to do with that. >> gordon, felton, delaware. hello. >> can you hear me okay? >> where listening. >> great. i do appreciate the great fashion that i sense coming from the guest, but i am coming in from a completely different perspective. there is no argument that domestic violence was not handled inappropriate manner by the system, but i would like to speak to the whole issue of women's subjugation and them being the victims of domestic violence. with everything that has been done now i have seen this throughout history. when you attempt to confront a social that is on one extreme, inevitably you were going to get to the other extreme. i think we have the axiom for

the pendulum effect. and i have seen that. in fact, i will be speaking at a conference in d.c. this summer sponsored by spaying services and the center for integrity. it is going to highlight my experience, how my was arrested nine times which all has been expunged and i received an apology, but it was based on the allegation of law was proven to be an emotionally disturbed individual. but because there had been such one extreme to the other end my sense was not an isolated incident, it seems to be a that is where we have begun to wear the system instead of going by a rule of law regarding domestic violence issues now adhere to more of an error on the side of caution. so that has been my a experience i would like to get any kind of feedback or comment from you.

>> let's leave it there. >> i think that is an important question and i understand you're saying. i have a friend was falsely accused recently. i think you're quite right that the -- airing on the side of caution has been a problem in terms of families being charged, for example, with potentially abusing kids, the kids show a bruised. we have schools expelling kids because of bringing in an aspen are for. i was say these are aspects of a system that is adjusting to responding to things no one ever did response to before. i don't think there's that much of an extreme pendulum swing. think if anything we're uncovering more and more examples that will horrifying to see have been accepted as normal all along.

in the past, for example, a double standard said one man to prison for much longer sentences when they committed a crime because we were so shocked that women would break the law and all. so there is plenty of room for adjustment in the justice system, and i am sorry for what you experience. i would say that looking for evidence of domestic violence as part of, say, you know, a patrol cars response in any scenario, that is a good thing. we have found is that when when -- went are paired with men often we do get a better story or a fair story in a call like that. i would also add that having discovered a huge problem of assaults on girls, we have rapidly moved into an almost total focus of assaults on boys. while that is an important

thing, looking at what happened at penn state or altar boys being molested and so forth, it's, again, makes it much more egregious in for a boy is violated and the girl. and i think that we respond more rapidly. i do not have an answer to how we prevent false accusations, and i certainly do know of women who have abused the system by making false reports. people do that also with inventing a crime. we certainly know that there are women who, in fact, were guilty of abusing their kids to blend an outside party. all of that is a part of people abusing the system. sp one just about a half hour left with this month's in-depth guest. she teaches at george washington and at georgetown university. the author of six nonfiction books and poetry books as well. hermosa recent is women's

history for beginners which also is our book tv book club choice for february. if you go to booktv.org you'll see it tell the the top as says book club. just click on that and you can participate in the conversation. we will be posting everything tomorrow, this video from this program as well as reviews and articles by bonnie morris. we will also be posting questions, discussion questions throughout the month of february so pick up a copy. we would love to have you participate and interact with each other. it is an online book club. so much of our world is on line anymore. our next call comes from dory in san antonio, texas. from the women's history for beginners, the first female member of congress. >> caller: i don't know that.

i am 80 years old and i can't remember dates anymore. i was an activist in the women's movement in the 1970's. i had a feminist bookstore in in-well, tennessee, women's times. and i had all of the recordings of the women's music that you talked about. i have been a jazz musician all my life, and that is one of want to talk about. the thing that impacted my life the most negatively in terms of developing as a jazz musician was unintended pregnancies because birth control was not any place. it was not in the media. it was not available. it was not legal. and so i have been a jazz

musician all my life. this last year i received a lifetime achievement award in san antonio. but i would like to hear you talk about margaret sanger because she is my hero. ..rst of all, the first woman elected to congress jeanette rankin, and there's a statue of her in the capitol rotunda now. second of all, thank you for everything you've done. i'm writing a book chapter about women's bookstores, and i will add you. and i'm delighted to hear about your career in jazz. i write about that as well. i play the music of women who were in jazz for my classes including the international sweethearts of rhythm, a mixed-race band in world war ii, but also many other women in jazz. margaret sanger, yes. a personal hero to my grandmother, my mother's mother, it would appear was of

>>. >> -- leave the country in part because she published a magazine called "the woman rebel" at a time when it was illegal to send information including discussion about birth control through the u.s. mail. so postal authorities seized her magazine. she had to flee. she, basically, studied in europe's first birth control clinic which was in holland and returned with information about the diaphragm for american women. what most people don't realize is birth control became legal because men were at risk. condoms were legalized after world war i because more men returned from service overseas

with sexually-transmitted diseases than with actual bullet wounds. much embarrassing uncle sam. and the result, we made condoms legal for men as long as they were sold with the provision, "sold for the prevention of disease." so we've actually protected men's health through legalized contraception before women had access to it. for prevention of pregnancy. this is all vital to the material my students are reading now. my students are reading "deliberate daughters," "the body project," and and "the girs who went away," about sex education ask birth control and how that -- and birth control and how that created pain and suffering for unwed moms. as you indicate, interrupted opportunities. great question. >> host: next call is mary ellen in livermore, california.

mary ellen, from bonnie morris' book "women's history forkers," who was the slave who bore thomas jefferson's children? >> caller: ooh, oh, i cannot -- almost, not quite getting it. >> host: okay. >> guest: sally hemings. >> caller: of course. >> guest: a huge controversy here at monticello. >> caller: of course. >> host: go ahead with your question or comment, mary ellen. >> caller: well, first of all, thank you, booktv, this is fabulous. i want to be in the book club. anyway, there seem to be some really strong voices in pop music today. katy perry, i know she has a huge following, pink. i turn on the radio, and i hear these really powerful women, and then there's the miley cyrus thing and lady gaga, and i'm wondering if you have any comments about that, and thank you very much. >> guest: oh, you are so welcome. yes. i don't mean to situate all of the music i listen to was

recorded in the '70s. and i am a big fan of a lot of contemporary musicians. i think one of the things that we're looking at is how women present themselves. on stage. do you have to present yourself many a sexually-provocative way in order to be considered commercially viable. do you have to appeal primarily to the male audience in order to get a commercial contract? if you don't present yourself as attractive in a certain way, will you be dropped or rebuked? si maid o'connor famously shaved her head because her agent told her to look more feminine. what my students are concerned with is that -- because lots of little kids want to be famous or appreciate celebrity. is looking up to someone who dresses provocatively the wrong message to send to little kids?

and one of the things that i've, obviously, studied is when you're not worrying about making a good impression on guys who might p want to date you, you can do whatever you want on stage. and it brings out a lot of talented women who might not fit the bill where someone is looking specifically at covergirl looks and so on. right now a big issue i would say is definitely the degree to which performers generate millions of dollars and have so much opportunity to say useful things at the microphone, do they take advantage of that opportunity. what could they say to younger women that would inspire them? how could they help young women accept themselves? how can you be a role model to young women who don't fit what they think is the american ideal of appearance? and that could be racial, ethnic, size, sexuality. i think it's really important that you not just be successful,

but that your message contain elements of empowerment. i think there's a lot of young artists who are doing that now. i think there's work that could be done. >> host: next call for bonnie morris comes from karen in astoria, new york. karen, here's your quiz question. who warned her powerful or husband that he better, quote, remember the ladies. >> caller: abigail adams. >> guest: yeah! >> host: ding, ding, ding. >> caller: and i partially know that from reading dr. morris' book, "the women's history for beginnings," which c-span booktv brought her work to my attention when you interviewed her, a shorter interview several months ago. and so i read "women's history for beginners" from my public library, and thousand i'm currently reading-- and now i'm currently reading "revenge of the women's studies professor." learned a lot from both of them, and my comment is i wanted to

say thank you to c-span booktv for bringing this to our attention or what this points of view that are so marginalized in ore media, but you are -- in other media, but you are devoting three hours that we can learn from professor morris, and i'm thankful. >> host: karen, what is -- can you -- tell us about yourself. >> caller: i'm a feminist, always have been, always will be. i'm dr. morris' age, and i am, happen to be a graduate of a women's college. >> guest: wow. i can't thank you enough. and, of course, i spent many, many happy years in astoria. and i hope that you use the public library that's just down the corner. many good memories and hello to all my friends in astoria. i would say that -- thank you, again, but i want to also thank c-span. thanks for giving me an

opportunity. doing this kind of work, many people doubted me when i announced my intention to become a women's studies professor. my family had concerns, my friends. they were supportive, but people worried quite openly how i'd earn a living or if i'd find a job. i think it was such an unusual occupation to be interested in. no one was sure how this would work out. it's worked out wonderfully. i've managed to carve out a job for myself. i've hanged to do the things i've wanted to within feminist action and also a as a citizen of the global world. i would add that for people who are considering going into women's studies, do not let anyone tell you it's not a good role, occupation, pronegatives. when i see -- profession. when i see how the students respond and how lives are

changed, right now i'm one of the scholarly advisers to the national women's history museum we hope to build here in d.c. that's right, we don't have one. we don't have a national museum of women's history. and when i see how my students are outraged we tonight have one, we don't have more monuments to women here in the capitol, what does it mean if you don't see your life or your sex represented in statues or in the architecture of a city? so there's much more to be done, and we need even. we need architects and painters and theorists and pharmacists and doctors and lawyers and accountants and even to remember the ladies as abigail adams said, remember the ladies. >> host: laura tweets in to you, professor morris: all the women's studies majors i knew in college were back in school five years later getting business degrees. [laughter] >> guest: well, you know, i think a lot of students in my class right now are in the business schools. they're doing work as future

wall street women or running nonprofits is on their agenda. i think that a lot of people major in something that may not necessarily be what they work in later on. but i wouldn't discourage anyone from pursuing it. i would also say that what's interesting is we have more majors this women's studies than in math and physics combined. we have a lot of people who minor. and we have a huge number of students who simply take the courses. they don't necessarily major. working with athletes on both campuses is just such a privilege, and many of the athletes are just discovering the history of women in sports for the first time. they're thrilled, they're uplifted. i go to all their games. and i think that making the information available to people you might not think would take the class -- yeah, tool guys,

they're -- football be guys, they're incredible. basketball players, track stars, everybody. and, of course, women in sports. having everyone together and creating a climate in the classroom is what makes the study of women a successful enterprise for everyone, because they can connect to each other's lives. and right now i have students from all over the world in all my classes. just off the top of my head, haiti, singapore, hong kong, vietnam. and one thing that i allow students to do is, of course, write from their own cultural perspective. what has it been like for them to observe the changing status of women in their culture and society. so we're engaged in, you know, global perspectives, we're working on the development of the different countries. i have a whole lot of students as well who are very excited by

the possibility of doing work in health that's going to prevent some of the illnesses that have kept women from participating more fully. and, of course, in terms of women's sports, one of things i really love is just cheering on many by players. >> host: r.j. williams, pell broke pines, florida. , mail: is margaret chase smith, our republican of maine, senatorial decision ever discussed, and do you consider christina of summers a feminist colleague? >> guest: good lord. yes, i include the history of women who have run in my classes, absolutely, and we spend a lot of time on women in politics. who was the first, who were the unknown candidates. christina love summers has been very critical of women's studies, and a lot of her books are very hostile to the field.

i'm happy to talk back to that viewpoint. i think that the field is both academically viable, scholarly -- sound in a scholarly way. there's very mixed stereotypes about women's studies. one is that we're all, you know, like axe-wielding, castrating man-haters. that's a very harsh image. and and then there's the opposite which is we're tree-hugging, you know, nothing really goes on in the classroom, it's all airy fairy and so on. wrong, wrong, wrong. what's startling to my students is just like anything else, you can flunk this material. do the readings, take the it'ses, turn the work in -- the tests, turn the work in on time or watch your grade go down the tube, and isn't that a wake-up call? so people enrolled thinking this is, you know, an easy class or i just have to agree with the professor and i'll get an a or,

oh, we're all going to sit in a circle and give each other pap smears, wrong. inaccurate. so i have to be fairly tough on the first day and scare away anybody who's not going to work seriously. and you have to do that. i have to interrupt students who are shaming other students who might be in the room whether that's unintentional, say someone who makes sweeping generalizations about anyone who is on welfare be, right? we talk about unwed moms. suppose somebody is one, you know? so let's check out who's in the room. this headaches the material -- makes the material personal, yes. it is personal because it is about the body and sexuality and is life giving and so on. at the same time, i'm very clear i am not a counselor, i'm not a rabbi, i'm not your therapist, so students who need support i can refer them to the appropriate places. i do have students who have cheated. i've had to deal with

plagiarism. obviously, it's a sign of the times that a lot of students are unfamiliar with how you quote correctly from the internet. what this says is women's studies is mainstream. it's like any other class in terms of the academic as educate. aspect. what brings students in is a variety of motives, and being ready for each of those is also, you know, a very demanding aspect. at the end of day, i come home exhausted, and my replenishment very much comes from being able to write in my journal about my teaching day. and i find i write more and more about teaching and less and less, you know, about other things because i'm concerned with doing a good job. but also because these interactions raise so many questions about our current moment historically. >> host: bonnie morris, mary jo e-mails in to you from dearborn,

michigan: my question deals with the novel "the help." my sister is white ask a women's studies professor at a small college in kentucky. she assigned this book to one of her introductory classes and was criticized by a black colleague for using that book. i remember that there was a lot of controversy surrounding that book and wonder what you think about it. >> guest: well, my mother gave me the book, and i've read it, and i've assigned it. i use a number of other books as well. i use "the mailed narratives -- the maid narratives" which is a very useful book because it's actual interviews with women who worked as maids. there's also interviews in there with women whose moms worked as maids and women whose moms had maids. in other words, both white and black women, everybody involved this these intricate relationships. i understand some of the criticism of "the help" was that

it was written by a white author, and at the same time i think it's useful in getting students to think about a really complicated problem in women's history. segregation kept people apart in housing, schooling, public accommodations. but women were with one another intimately because black women worked in white women's homes and were assigned to do the inti hate care, the daily intimate care, childcare, actually nursing white babies with their own breast milk. all of that. that's an intimacy that sounds strange when we look at how segregation is supposed to keep us from touching. so it demonstrates a whole lot. one aspect that we tell gate child -- we delegate child care to people who are seen as less socially important. because throughout history aristocratic women have always

had nurses and servants. so there's a history of servants as well as a racial history. all of that can be summarized in a novel, but it has to be sup mr. presidented with real stories -- sup mr. presidented with real stories from women who lived through the experience, and there's a way to do that through the curriculum. it's a great question. >> host: robert in atlanta, georgia. robert, in what year did a women's bathroom finally have to be added to the senate building so that newly-elected women would not miss the roll call for votes? >> caller: ms. chism was there, i imagine, so it would probably be '88? >> guest: well, actually, 1992, '93. a lot of women ran for and were elected after the anita hill hearings, and you had to leave the senate building and go across to another venue to get to a women's facility. this is another example of women's history through architecture. the georgetown science building

didn't have a women's bathroom until quite recently, because there were never any plans that women would major in science. they had to make a broom closet into a women's room. so the history of segregation through toilets is something i also talk about. and it's okay to laugh at this stuff. >> host: robert, go ahead and ask your question and make your comment. >> caller: yeah. i'm 58 years old, so i, i've seen the women's movement, you know, and archie bunker. i guess i consider myself a feminist, but duplicity is the summit of this call, and that's kind of bothered me about the movementment i -- movement. i want to ask you to address two liberty things, one is -- [inaudible] i propose this question. if you have a group of women put together in a room and you ask them to take a vote, would you prefer that your future husband headache more money than you or

less money than you, that was an interesting answer, particularly considering you want equal pay. and oleana, well, you can just tell me anything you feel about that. thanks. >> guest: okay. well, i don't know enough about oleana to respond. camille polly is an interesting figure. part of what she was anxious about in her work was empowering women or reclaiming in her book sexual per sew nay that women had as femme fatals and that they shouldn't jettison that and it wasn't a negative thing. she was hostile at the concept of victim feminism which many other people have argued puts feminists in a bad light in emphasizing the negative aspect of womanhood. the question, you know, about earnings, that was also addressed in a great tv

interview about women breaking into women's sports. so i'm very familiar with that question. and the idea that women still expect to be supported by men this some scenarios and yet want equal pay in others. part of the problem there is that if a woman takes time out to have kids, if he doesn't get maternity leave or doesn't have health coverage and so forth, to what degree is a woman really compromised financially by giving birth or needing time for child care? and if she doesn't have a partner who can assist, that's one of the reasons why we find that women are more likely to live in poverty than men. women who expected to be supported either emotionally or financially by a loving husband who are then abandoned need to

go to work in a scenario where they will be paid wages that they can live on. ask one of the reasons -- and one of the reasons, the '70s saw so much change, many women were being divorced and discovering suddenly without a husband's income they were very bad lu off, but they weren't being offered fair wages if they entered the work force in their 30s and 40s. i would also add that a unique issue here, of course, is that we have a work callen da daughter that -- calendar that's built around the idea of one person working and a partner being at home. now we expect everyone to work, so we have everyone out in the public sphere, million dollar houses and and nobody's in them. so concerns about who's taking care of the children. i understand where that comes from. we now have the ability for everyone to work out of the home again because of computers. you don't have to go out in the public sphere to be a businessman or woman.

these are all changes that we look at in my classes. they're wonderful discussions. what does it mean that we now expect everybody to have a primary identity outside the home, and yet homes are more and more expensive, you know? if you're going to invest all that in a home, don't you want to be there some of the time? i ask the same question. i have a nice amount that i'm hardly ever -- apartment that i'm hardly ever in, and this winter i've within enjoying being in it in the cold weather and kind of looking around at my 1500 books and going, yeah, i live somewhere. i live at dupont circle, and i'm happy. >> host: mar e-mails in: i'm an academic at marries college. what i want to ask, is there any sustained, actionable focus among feminists on behalf of women in prison? >> guest: yes. terrific question. hi to my two colleagues from grad school who were maris

professors. i am fortunate to teach in a women's studies program, george washington, chaired by dan moshenberg whose focus is women in prison or women in the prison system. we offer an excellent curriculum on this topic. i showed the film "what i want my words to do to you" in which eve especialliler teaches a writing class at bed forth hills prison in upstate, new york. my students addressed the subject of not only women as summits of violence, but women who are in prison for crimes or who have taken violent action. and they read a series of papers by women who have experienced living long term in prison. much of that literature covers the way that women are either rewarded or punished with, you know, access to chair own kids -- their own kids, what to do with women who become mothers while behind bars, how we accommodate access to child rearing this those conditions.

but we also examine the fact that many women are imprisoned because of intimate violence. they take the rap for a boyfriend, they fight back if they're battered. they turn to prostitution because they're addicted. and the other social ills we're familiar with. so, yes, that is very much on my syllabus. >> host: dwhren reilly e-mails in: mail chauvinism bad, female chauvinism good. i use up a significant part of my weekend watching this generally excellent tv show. this morning is pushing the limits of objectivity and honesty. this should not be the place for political propaganda. thank you for your comments, sir. appreciate that. and the next call for bonnie morris comes from annie in pilot hill, california. >> caller: this is a terrific show. i'm to happy you're running it, and i love booktv.

i grew up in the '70s, and it seemed like it was sort of the first era maybe when girls were asked what are you going to be when you grow up instead of just assuming that everybody was going to be a mother. and this kind of does hail back to a question you had earlier about katy perry and pink and some of the people that are in the entertainment industry. i'm just wondering what your comment is, if you think there's progress in the fact that we have everything from now women can choose to be a professor or an astronaut or even, god forbid, you know, the star of a reality show where you, your job is to, basically, dress up and fight with a bunch of other women. do you see that as that we've made progress, that now women can basically make choices like that, or -- [laughter] or do you see that as sort of backsliding? >> guest: well, that's a great question. thank you very much. i do think we've had, we've made

progress. i would say it's very limited to a small section of the, you know, western world. i have traveled widely, and in much of the world women are living in very traditional villages, they're subject to tribal law, they're not permitted to advance in any profession, let alone get, you know, an education there. primarily living agriculturally, doing very hard work in fields. throughout china, many women are working in factories making our stuff. and the conditions for women vary from place to place. so what with we experience in terms of progress is, is a mask for the work that still needs to be done. but within, let's say, american culture one of the predicaments we have is we valorize people based on how much money they earn. something i resent bitterly because i'm infamously underpaid. i also would say that there's a

sense that to be provocative is to gain be fame. so as long as people see that you can make money being controversial, we have hate radio, we have reality tv, we have women fighting each other in a public forum because it improve ratings or generate income. i don't know how much of that would go on if it wasn't compensated. so part of it is to what degree do people still look to become rich as a motivating factor? i never did, and, you know, i'm not. but i amish shoe-driven -- i am issue driven, and i think a lot of girls as well as boys are pushed to identify with material gain and comfort, so that is going to affect the choices they headache in terms of how -- make in terms of how they can be rich and famous. >> host: bonnie morris, in your favorites list that we got from you that we ran at the break,

you listed writing in your journalings. 668 of them. are they ever going to be published? >> guest: well, i am crowd to show off the last journal, and i am ending this one, here's the last page, something i've always wanted to do. i amening my journal on -- i am ending my journal on national tv. i am starting the next one this night. i've been keeping a journal since i was the. i don't know be they'll -- since i was 12. i don't know if they'll ever be published. my handwriting has gone awhoo. as i write on the keyboard more and more, my hand can't keep up with my thoughts, with the pen. i still use a fountain pen. i love feel of paper and the journal in my act and the physical act of writing and the fountain head gliding over the page. i don't want to lose that. i've tried to write historically and write about what it's like, you know, to be a lesbian in

late 19th, 20th century america. those accounts will be instructive to somebody someday. i do have an archive that has requested all hi papers, the schlesinger library at radcliffe, and they're going to get all my journals and recordings in women's music culture, interviews and narratives and so on. i've tried not to write anything unkind, and i've tried to be honest about my life. >> host: bonniejmorris.com is her web site. thank you for being with us on "in depth."