parents finally cared about their kids more than they did the intermarriage of out of them so there must have been a lot of people who didn't share that. >> it isn't totally clear to share the truth. my own guess is that a majority were dead set against it but there was a group of people and they were not speaking very loudly .-full-stop maybe this would be all right and in fact some of the leaders of the board commissioners were in the sponsoring organization would care of lee upset by the prejudice that they had to keep it pretty much to themselves because they were still a minority. and then it's interesting how when the debate and controversy spread out among the country of their voices were heard. and some people said it doesn't

say there's anything wrong with people with different race now and some people said actually, this might be very good for the cause if this thing starts happening even on a broad scale. so there was debate back and forth. there was interesting discussion as a kind of race quote unquote. or actually some people thought they had a good way of living. so i shouldn't leave the impression and i hope the book doesn't leave the impression that it was all in one direction. the point is that it started a major controversy. and this is a time when the country and large the whole issue of the race was coming to the floor in a way that had never been true before. it was a time when the theory of racial difference was being kind

of scientific theories about racial differences emerging and different scholars were proposing the different races in a kind of order and of course indians and africans were at the bottom usually. so, the school story does coincide with a sort of upsurge of racial discussion and finally of the race prejudice, too. okay? '

[inaudible conversations] columnist for the hill. this weeks indicated columnist cal thomas and what works commonsense solutions for a stronger america. he argues solving the country's problems start with looking at what happened, discarding politics and listening to voters. this program is about one hour. >> commonsense solutions for a

stronger america. that tells a lot about this book. he is a very good friend of course and then hypeforce and ts who is publishing the book thought that he would be a very good person to write. i was happy that he did so. nancy pelosi wasn't available. so this was intended for a conservative audience. >> for solving the problems in america are not republican or democrat. we have serious challenges facing us that affect everybody regardless of their political background or persuasion. >> but if you have sean hannity. >> we try to reach of the book and naturally i believe conservative ideas provide the best solutions to the problems in america is a liberal comes up with an idea that actually works

and proves itself and lives up to the stated objectives i am for social security. i am for medicare and all these programs created mostly in the liberal democratic administrations, but i want to look at them to see if they need to be updated for the modern age and improved. if they are not working then we need to get rid of them. >> in fact the thesis of this book and i'm going to come back to that idea because it is one that you play with in the buck bubookbut the idea of the book t works. what actually works and what do we know has worked in the past commonsense solutions that come from the past and in some sense not only from the political realm but also you from your deep faith. >> guest: access there is nothing new. everything that has been fought before has been fought before. i'm not talking about living in the past i'm talking about looking to the past to see what has worked on updating it as

necessary and moving forward. if you go to another country you get a guidebook or something to find out where the best hotels and restaurants are and places to be avoided. these are people that have gone before us to scope out the cities and recommend the best places for us but we have the founders of the country that understood human nature at least as well as the creatures of their day and they created a constitution that established boundaries for the government but unlimited life liberty for its citizens. i believe that has gotten out of whack and we have exceeded those boundaries and that is why we have so many of the problems and challenges we have today. >> host: you had to remind the readers you were not saying to disengage from public life but people would write they would get that prescription given your emphasis on simply focusing on the individual capacity and responsibility to look away from government, don't look to the

government to meet the needs come up to the individual and look to god. >> guest: that is where it begins and the founders saw the power delegated from the people to the government, not the government overpowering us. that's why the government has grown so big and dysfunctional. i don't think there's anybody that believes everything is working well and they ought to just keep pouring water into ane money into it and ever bigger. it's a great writer and friend has written and i got this little card i carry around he's as much of the social history in the western world over the past three decades has involved replacing what works with what sounded good. now, our friend who cowrote this book into a column acknowledges that many of the social programs were begun in good faith in the lyndon johnson administration

but he acknowledges they didn't take into consideration human nature, it wasn't only not good for them but it wasn't good for the country. we moved away from the admonition ask not what your country can do for you but ask what you can do for your country. >> host: you believe people should remain in dates with politics. >> guest: absolutely or i wouldn't be writing my syndicated column. column. i am saying that you shouldn't expect more out of the government to ban it can deliver unless out of your self you can be with her. things like character and virtue and integrity cannot be installed. those are moral and spiritual issues. you have to be taught not to interrupt adults at the table. you have to be taught certain

things. these matters are all things that have to be taught and i think personal responsibility and integrity looking out for your self and of the government is a last resort not a first resource is what would improve any life and country. >> host: you think they would be overly reliant on government and don't have some of the virtue that you just described how personal responsibility, wanting to succeed and contribute is that right clicks >> guest: i know many liberals that have these character qualities but the problem is so many of my liberal friends even though they may have those character qualities they look to the government to repair what is wrong with people that don't have those character qualities. we note the problems are. a stable family is the best guarantee of a stable home and

people being able to take care of themselves. judith who i quoted in the book did a study of the effects of divorce. she studied them for 25 years. we know that it harms children. many of them. some people survived that many don't. these are some of the things i explore in the book. again if it is a liberal idea and it promotes the general welfare, then i'm for it. just because it is a liberal or a conservative idea -- >> host: you said president obama and i think that you would describe him as a liberal. he said that he took advantage of the human instinct for nv and greed in order to get elected. >> guest: i think the unholy trinity is envy, greed and entitlement and i think we see that i in the constant statemens about income inequality as running down large corporations

and businesses that employ people who themselves to a an awful lot of taxes instead of building people up. calvin coolidge said you don't improve the week by tearing down the strong. i want more people to the rich and independent. i want more families to be stable. all these things. who could be against that? that a lot of the families and democrats are out there bashing success, penalizing success, subsidizing failure and what you penalize you get less and you subsidize you get more of. >> host: you have a background having worked for the majority. and then in this book is about joshua who was at the white house as the president kind of spiritual advisor in the office of public service. i might be misquoting the exact title. he is pretending that and talks about how the president reads

daily meditation meditations ine and it talks about other people in the city, washington, d.c. and the federal government. >> guest: that you think that he is off when he comes to his message because what he talks about is the idea that the government should care about people who are in need as opposed to individuals. if you make it seem as if he is saying god wants us to have compassion and therefore voids obama and the liberals think that means government should be compassionate and you say no -- >> guest: i'm saying that it ought to be a last resort for the first resource. it can be edited like a drug. you come to rely on the government check rather than your self. in britain where i spent a lot of time i go three or four times a year the daily mail did a story a few months ago on a family with three generations of people who never worked and had been on their version of public welfare assistance. they didn't expect to have a job

and when they were told by the administration that they should start again for work, they were offended. that's the kind of addiction that ithat his intent everybodyt in too many people the government brings. anand so, you know, i don't question the president's faith. that's not my business. but in certain areas that are to be a connection if he reads every day about life and marriage and, you know, you can disagree, and the general on taxes and the defense budget and still not be in danger of going to help it i think there are certain basic things that if you are a serious believer an orthodox jew and serious christian, the scripture teaches about to carry over into your public policy. the governor of new york had a speech a number of years ago at notre dame and he called himself in a trough where he said i accept my teaching when it comes to the death penalty for convicted of murder but he does not accept when it comes to

abortion for the innocent unborn. i find that to be an incredible inconsistency. >> of course many people on the right are for the death penalty even as they oppose abortion. so they are caught in the trap. >> guest: sometimes but i think the difference is that when you have a convicted murderer, someone taking the life of another person, that is different than an innocent unborn child that hasn't had a chance to take a breath of life much less anything -- >> host: this conversation could go on because i'm sure the people that they were president he would talk about the life of the living woman being important. but let me ask you going back to president obama as the quintessential when a prototype of a liberal in your book, your point is that while the government can be compassionate, but you really don't want it to be, you want to focus on what works, therefore you're talking about individuals having a responsive to your, i guess

asserted that they are christian, jewish, whatever their beliefs, having the sense that they should be compassionate but it's up to the individual, not up to the government to take your support. >> guest: let me go back to another book written in the early '80s of newt gingrich and he was in the house he handed out t it out to everybodn congress and it was cold but tragedy of american compassion. he went back in history and looked at the major religious institutions, the jewish and christian groups who cared for the poor as a first responsibility that in the caring for the poor they required some kind of a response in other words if he were poor because every drug alcoholic had to enter a program to differenth introduction and then we are going to help you but we are not going to sustain you and your bad lifestyle choices. if you were having babies out of wedlock with no husband or father in the home, we aren't going to send you a check to continue to do that. we are going to help the kids

because it wasn't their fault that we aren't going to allow you to continue to have kids out of wedlock and sent you a check. the whole point was to reform these people so they could lead a better life in the end would be better for themselves. they have been replaced and be treated to the sidelines by the government and it's become what i call a perversion of the 23rd psalm. the government is by keeper i shall not want and i walk in the shadow of the poverty the health and human services department as they are comforting me with the ebt card. >> host: it's interesting though in looking at is you talu talk about the expansion of the entitlement society as something that is a republican refrain. but there is no reference that we went to a horrible recession and in reference to the great depression as a consequence of that, not only has there been more reliable the public safety

net including the entitlement that we've done things like bailout of the rich. >> guest: i'm all for the safety net. what i'm against is the hammock. nancy pelosi said if you give the power back we are going to drain. and instead she built a hot tub. i don't think the government is the first resource. you take a look at the recession, what was the primary reason for the recession. the government was spending too much and allowed the companies like gm and others because of the union pressure to ratchet up the benefits and entitlements if they had no hope of paying because the union pressure strikes and so when you got to the point where gm had an example you could no longer afford based on how many cars they were selling to pay off the benefits the crisis ensued. never come to the point you tell people we can't do this anymore. it's like the college student

and he or she is on a budget and they blow it and why of letting the first weekend of fraternity parties and called mom and dad with a hangover on monday and say i'm all out of money, spend more. but you are in bulgin are into e behavior that isn't in their best interest and that is what the federal government has done. >> host: i don't think that's right. i think as i understand the call of the great recession it was in fact we had a housing bubble and the bubble broke into second, people on wall street were engaging in a high-risk maneuver investment instruments that proved to collapse and cause wall street to implode. >> guest: let's take freddie and fannie as an example since you brought that up. why did it occur and explode? it's because the president over several administrations and parties wanted to be able to say under my administration more people own their own homes than ever before. that is a worthy goal.

but if you are handing out money to people with bad credit and who have income levels that cannot sustain after the seven years, and reset and they can't afford it that is the problem and too many people came to expect that they should be able to live in a house when they didn't have the income to sustain it for part of it as a political problem and part of it is a moral problem and a part of it is an economic problem. and you're right about wall street has welcomed you're absolutely right. if anybody saw that film can't remember the name now but it portrayed all of this. everybody was living beyond their means. everybody was creepy and wanted to make more and more money and was willing to cut whatever quarters to do so. so this isn't just a left right to market and republican thing. as they used to say we are all in this together and have a certain amount of culpability for what happened. >> host: but the narrative was he sensually all about the

government overspending individuals making bad decisions and in fact what you see if you look at the housing market industry and what happened there it seems to me you have a lot of wealthy people who were acting as lone wolf's individuals. individuals. i'm out for myself. i will give to charity that i'm going make a lot of money. a lot of that was hurting the country. >> guest: because they built out a ig. i would have let them collapse. this is the problem. it's not just indulging in subsidizing the poor it is indulging in subsidizing the rich. >> host: but i don't see that in the book. >> guest: i have so many pages into the editor took out a lot of stuff. i said this during the failure and the business and the bush administration in the last interview with president george w. bush did with me before he left office he said at least i

stuck to my principles. and i said what about bailing out the ig, how is that sticking to your principles? he said what would you have done? i said i would have stuck with my principles. i feel i've been fired. one time i had to go down to the unemployment office when it was 26 weeks and not 99 weeks as it is now to get an unemployment check come about failure is a great teacher or those that will learn from it and the best thing that could have happened in wall street and to gm in my view is for them to have failed and two restructure under the bankruptcy law to reestablish themselves and -- >> host: but you understand that when wall street "-end-quotes you are impacting pensions into the four o. one k., the entire financial structure in america would have been. you understand people in the congress were told we are in a

financial calamity. we have to come together to resolve this. >> guest: here's one of the problems. you have the trial lawyers and others that send money to democratic politicians. on the right for me you have wall street and big corporations who have a lot of money to the politicians and when you object to only get reelected as it so often is when that is the objectives instead oobjective ie business of the people coming your going to have dysfunctional nonworking government so i've become a political environmentalist i believe in recycling trash and politicians for the same reason because each begins to get a foul mouth. there is a disease in this town come here with the highest motives and it doesn't take long for you to get corrupt. get them out before they catch it. >> host: most americans agree and that whole indicates it was

54% of americans say throw all of them out. >> guest: don't we elect them anyway. >> host: but that's not the reality. the new speak about term limits and what works, solutions for the stronger america. when it comes to that kind of basis of the financial structure and the government taxes what you say is what has worked is always low taxes because according to count on -- fouled thomacalthomas it results in moe receipts for the government in fact they get more money but what about the contrary point which would be the taxes are pretty low right now in the obama administration they were low under the clinton administration and the bush administration. so, i mean -- it's not just the taxes. it's the spending. that is what has got us out here

today for coming you've got coming even when the republicans are in office when they hold all three branches of the government, the spending needs to increase. maybe a little bit less than when the democrats are in office that let's go back to wha what e wilson of world war i. after world war i, the taxes were finally cut and we have the 20s. there were other problems that led to the great depression. i understand that. but coming out of that we get to 1960 and the famous detroit economic speech about cutting taxes there was a rush of the revenue because people were taking their money out of the safe havens and bringing it back into the marketplace. we have trillions of dollars sitting on the sideline. guess the market is at an all-time high that unemployment for the hard-core unemployed and those looking for jobs for many months continue to be without work. people who want work. we saw an uptick on the

unemployment rate because more people were starting to look for work again and they had an increased level of optimism. but again, calvin coolidge, i want people to be taxed less so they have more and when you and i have more to spend we are going to spend it or invest it and that is what creates the jobs they had ronald reagan knew this and even bill clinton after the tax increase he helped push through congress so you think i raised them too much. there is the base of having it both ways. >> host: what is interesting and listening to this you've remember under clinton we actually had not only the same tax rates that we have now but in fact they were a little higher but we had a surplus. >> guest: they were cutting

defense spending on what most people would agree was the age of terrorism and now the rise of china and the nuclear program even thevent the president saide wants to cut the military and others are getting this message ithat the united states doesn't have the well much less the wherewithal to stand against the tyrants of the world so he cut the defense budget and when you cut spending and maintain a level of revenue you're going to get a balanced budget and surplus and that is what is happening in the state. i have a whole chapter on what's happening. we had indiana, louisiana, georgia doing fantastic jobs many of them balancing budgets. the state constitutions require them. i wish we could have that in the federal level but also because of the policies that he had in indiana they send people checks when he has enough money. this is an amazing thing to me. they say we don't need all this money.

the federal government of course it goes out at the end of the fiscal year if you haven't spent it all spend it all because your budget might be cut next year but in indiana they send you a check and what they were marble thing. >> host: you address an in what works commonsense solutions just a big government and you quoted rush limbaugh extensively with regards to the big government is terrible and then the federalist papers and all the rest. but then you have to somehow explain to me then how is it you can say social security, medicare, these things that are around and clearly you are a big fan of defense spending and of course the founding fathers were not about international use of the military overseas. >> guest: thomas jefferson would find that difficult. >> host: the initial preset ones we have nothing to do with it. >> guest: they lived in a different age now. of course that is still in the

country today. this may surprise you and that is where i agree on this there are a lot of weapon systems in the planes and ships, but the military have said they don't want and they don't need and yet because those are built in the district of the congressman so and so you get to build anyway because it makes her or him look good and creates jobs. this is the wasteful spending i'm talking about and it was democrat and republican. i think what we need is something to the grace commission during the reagan administration or the base realignment closing condition and the clinton administration of an outside group of integrity and former members of congress and no elected politicians to come and do a complete audit of the government from top to bottom. every agency of government has a piece of legislation or charter that created it and has a purpose if it isn't fulfilling that purpose or not doing it

within a reasonable budget it should be cut or eliminated. do you know and i didn't until i researched it there are three had starts. there i is enhanced at start and regular head start why do we have the other two, the second one wasn't working. on the american social programs that don't work he found that by the time a child that goes through one of the head start programs is in the fifth grade, all of the benefits that might have accrued in the first few years of his or her life on. usa today had a lead editorial which said headstart advanced it doesn't work or it's something like social security which was never intended to be the kind of program it is today it is intended to be a safety net and

an insurance program. but we have added all of these bells and whistles onto it. a huge christmas tree to mix a metaphor and that's why it's become dysfunctional. the initial idea was a good one that politicians always add stuff and it becomes dysfunctional. >> host: this brings us to one of the interesting chapters about education because basically, you are saying they are always talking about these people that know too little that rely on religion and evangelicals and cal thomas comes out and says why do you send word elite could take off to these schools harvard, yale, stanford and the like and say smart parents even if they are called to do nothing shouldn't be sending their those schools. >> guest: let's look at the data that is going on and continuing between the governor and river of new york and the new york city mayor over the

charter schools. we know that during the campaign he said he was a day basically end of the charter schools and he has a major rivalry with a woman of new york who is a big proponent. now, in a speech a few days ago it was a remarkable speech if you have shown me the words and you didn't tell me who said if i would say that it would have been delivered by a conservative republican he said we spend more money per capita than anywhere else on public education yet he said we are number 32 in the achievement and have everything and other essentials everybody would agree are absolutely required. so he said we have to have the school choice in this area. what i am saying in the book and i going beyond universities some of my friends are against choice when it comes to public schools and especially for the poor and minority he is standing in the

schoolhouse door to keep them out more than 50 years ago we now have people standing in the schoolhouse door when we know a good education is the ticket for success into the competition whether it is packaged delivery or restaurants improves every one and so all i'm saying is let's have choice in education and decide to public, private, religious and let's also told the parents if you don't want your kids to have their faith into the history of the country undermined to send them to colleges and universities that do that. >> host: that's why you're saying not to send your kids to the best schools in america in terms of the competitive marketplace you see people with money and they send them to stanford and harvard but you're saying you believe and i think you can do it at the end of what

you said those schools challenge the precepts of religious faith? >> guest: the history of our own country i heard on one of the talk radio stations about a woman that called in and her public school child is getting some kind of an indoctrination about the pilgrims into the early colonists but somehow the native americans were people that were at peace with themselves and each others into these horrible people and gauged them and give them syphilis and gonorrhea and stole their corn and all this other stuff and this is the kind of stuff that is being taught in the government school systems. most parents don't always hear about it. we are living in a model that was created in the 19th century. i'm all for diversity. you were going to have people with different backgrounds, religious, race and all that.

i think it is a very good thing however what are they being taught and if it violates the faith and values and beliefs of basic number of people paying their taxes for this they ought to be able to have the choice of sending their child to another school, public, private, religious and i believe that it's going to improve the public schools like anything else. >> host: before we go to a break you're saying challenging orthodoxies is bad and that few? >> guest: i'm not thinking critically all the time. i'm exposed to all kind of ideas not only the newspapers i write for the television on which i appear in the billboards i see all the time. when you have a child you have to train them properly and get them to the point they can make

the decision and have a certain belief and purpose for living and am i here to get an education to buy stuff and is that going to meet me happy and i think that is what is missing in a lot of our government schools. i'm talking about the public school. from yale and princeton they were found on the principles some of which to train missionaries. i don't remember but i remember him saying when he was president more than a century ago he said it should be expected of the a harvard graduate they learn to pronounce the name without embarrassment.

we are back with cal thomas the author of a new book called what works commonsense solutions for the stronger america. at the end of your life you have the equivalent of the testimony in church where we can start showcasing people that once lived in poverty and despair in a self-sufficient because they can sta stay and braced by embry conservatives and historically sound principles of kansas. inspiration followed by motivation. first explain. kansas? >> guest: it is reproduced in the book for the chamber of commerce 18 months or so ago and sam brownback from kansas and

now governor of the state has created some tremendous business friendly programs that are increasing employment and lowering taxes eliminating the state income taxes. louisiana is another. seven or eight states now do not have a state income tax. many of them are realizing that this becomes an inhibitor to prosperity. the whole metaphor of the testimony time in church is3 the whole metaphor of the testimony time in church is meant to convey the attitude i once was blind but now i see. i grew up poor and now i'm a ceo. take doctor ben carson has been in the news a lot lately, the former chief of pediatric mayor of surgery at johns hopkins it

perfect example of how people can overcome the circumstances, grew up in inner-city detroit and had a horrible time for the single mother raised he and his brother. we don't go posting of stories in america. >> host: what you do in the book is you have an entire section of people who would get the testimony and you tell their story so rather than me pick out one or two why don't you pick out the story. >> guest: a quadriplegic had an accident when she was 17-years-old swimming and struggled with despair and taught herself to paint by sticking to paint it in her teeth and created a lot of things. it works with handicapped people and pushed strongly the americans with disabilities act and has been an inspiration

including people who do not have physical challenges. there are people who grew up in horrible circumstances but you couldn't even imagine if you were writing a work of fiction if they manage to overcome and now they are independent and prospering. on the radio program called the rest of the story he would say okay if you think you have a hard life and difficulty with the tell you about somebody else. we are great with you how they overcame and i go back and i told the story in the harlem housing project of new york hard-core people who either never had a job where they were working for minimum wage. they taught people how to dress for a job interview, how to

shake hands. they followed this one woman into a job interview. she came out in tears not because she was rejected because she got the job. for the first time in her life she felt like she had a value. nobody told her this before. you're black or your female coming you live in the ghetto and you're going to be lousy to vote for democrats. that is the message that so many it. if we have people telling how they overcame, then we are going to inspire a lot of people. >> host: do you think there is growina growing any quantity of incomes in the country that when you look at the realities what you see is the top 1% famous now from the occupied movement at the top 1% has taken a

disproportionate share of increases in wealth over the last ten years and the consequence has been a declining middle class increasing numbers of people in poverty and when you hold up exceptional people. that is running counter to the structural issues in the socie society. >> guest: they have been talking about income inequality and which i stated i have a deep dark secret i've been for many years and it was embarrassing for me to go public with it and it was necessary for me to do so and i suffered from income inequality. it doesn't affect me. the fact that you make $10 i make one it means i come to you

to find out how you made it to $2. income isn't fixed. if there is one bowl of food at the dinner table but might be unfair because i might not be satisfied in your hunger but if i give you a recipe or ask the cook to bring more food so you can make your own food, that's fair. the fact volvo trump makes more than i do has nothing to do with my income level. what is your philosophy? i might want to be like you someday that's not the attitude is if you make more than me it's not fair so way out of drag you down so that doesn't help me up. are the poor people better off because of higher taxes and getting a correct check if donald trump or you ar were me s more taxes? no they are not improving their lives or saying in three years ago the government welfare check and now i'm the ceo of my

company. >> host: but you have a situation where the question is maximizing opportunity. when you look at the realities of the income distribution charged in the country now they are swinging wildly out of proportion in terms of who is gaining wealth and opportunity even in terms of the school. they tend to be the children of the rich and they are getting more and more of our money and you look at wall street and you say it sounds as if you are being in different to people who are struggling to get themselves out of poverty and onto the ladder of mobility. >> guest: when i was in the army i made $99 a month and i was working in new york city. we took the subway for 10 cents and when it went to 15 cents people screamed and yelled about how the poor are going to be able to afford this. but i never in the feed people.

i said i can improve my life. i'm going to keep working on it. i was 37-years-old thinking $25,000 a year into taking the public transportation to work. we had one car. >> host: it sounds like you were celebrating individual are celebrating individual virtue. >> guest: that is what america is all about. even when somebody is ripping off the system you say it for that let's go back. i didn't think some of these others should have been bailed out. they should have been allowed to fail. the people responsible should have paid the biggest price, not the investors or the employees they defeated and go to jail and a lot of them shouldn't come at a should have been forced to pay back some of the people that they injured. >> host: but if they had no money and they were going to

collapse the system if you hold back, again i come back to the idea that you don't focus on the idea of what we as an american people can do to try to correct some of the flaws in the way that we live and instead it's correcting the human mistakes as a rule of game. >> guest: the government cannot force me to stay married to my wife to have honesty and integrity in my professional life is our moral and spiritual issues that come from another place. it can't force me to be moral and virtuous thought that i am i'm just saying. let me use this analogy. there was a catholic poet years ago that stood up at the 1979 national prayer breakfast in

washington and asked a question how do we define a football field? by its boundaries. we have exceeded our boundaries in every area morelli, racially, economically, and we wondered why we have these problems. huge numbers now. so many babies born out of wedlock enormous rate especially included in the minority of americans over 80% of a jesse jackson used to say this was the white man's answer to the welfare problem. >> host: what is true is 80% of the abortions in new york city are among the minority 70% of the population is minority so it isn't as wildly proportiona proportionate. >> guest: but we are cheapening it at all levels and when you have something like hillary care, sarah palen talked

about the panel and it was widely ridiculed but this is what is happening in britain. there is a chapter in my book that may surprise you. i am all for the government spending more money to find cures to alzheimer's disease which is an affliction of the baby boomers as they are retiring you are going to save money from having to treat people with alzheimer's and so many others so i'm for investing as much as possible finding the cures for these things but you are now seeing people on the panels you can call them whatever you like denying people care and surgery because it costs too much or they are too old or they are not contributing enough. the reason it is coming years because life has been cheapened

in one level and now the challenge is going to be at the older level. >> host: one of the heroes is none other than john calvin thomas. it is an example of this virtue. >> guest: i have parents that stayed married and a brother that died a year and a half ago of down syndrome at the time when he was born in 1950. children like that for either institutionalized and not expected to live beyond their 20s. my parents that we are not going to do that and so she left to be 60 and that was an example of compassion that i carried with me to this day. my compassion wasn't getting a hand out it was getting a hand

up. i'm not going to tell you the things i've done for people because that would sound self-serving. but you'd be surprised at a lot of the things i do for people relation only and otherwise but the goal is always to help them improve their lives and to become independent and functioning individuals not just to say he has a sign. they don't say that anymore. you want to cut my long? know it's easier to get the money than to do the rest but i do think that we have redefined compassion. i was fortunate to grow up in a two parent home i worked hard when i flunked out of college in my first year. i'm happy to support you all these years but you will pay your own way. when i paid my own way i got

serious and my grades went up because it was my own money that i was spending. his attitude with the key flunked out of college but send him a check with no price to pay. so that taught me a great lesson. if you learn from it and accept the idea of the victimhood she spoke of the society a couple of years ago if you think of yourself as a victim he will always be a victim but if you look at the success eventually you will be one. i love that attitude. >> host: but in your story, you talk about having been turned down by as many newspapers has been designed to write a column, but then here comes one editor that said let's give him a chance. why don't you told that story? >> guest: i met him when he was a white house fellow over at the white house and let him.

i had written this book in 19833 of th19831983censorship from thi wrote a column about the least likely newspaper of "new york times" still framed. another one in the la times and usa today said what's going on here. so we contacted all the syndicates and again my background was broadcasting and they all turned me down. i called him up and i said i think there is good commentary particularly on the social and cultural issues to get peoples attention even more than the economics. he said you may be right. next time you come to la i will send you a meeting of the syndicates people that make their own decisions. so i went out there and met with

them and they miraculously i'd say offered me the chance to do two columns a week and in april the 2030 years. i don't know where it is now, but if it wasn't for top syndicated columns in america but i never take no for an answer. i never took rejection is the final word. it's not where you start but it's where you finish. >> host: and johnson is a liberal. >> guest: he is committed to diversity and pluralism. i dedicated the book to him because he opened the door to me. he's an honest and wonderful man. i had dinner with him recently in atlanta and they are just great people. this is what happened. i mentioned this in the book. nobody knows anything anymore in washington especially. we are all labeled. yes i do it for communication, i know. we are all part of groups from

african-american, latino, american, or straight, so we are identified by illegals and nobody gets to know each other. so we have become close personal friends. i know about his family life from his kids and his desires and frustrations and he knows about mine because we look beyond the labels. there is a lot of political power keeping us divided. solutions to problems hurts the fund-raising. hohow come you never send out a positive level? how cynical is that and how divisive is that? we are the divided state of the groups and that is what's really harming us on many levels. >> host: it is directed at one of those majorities which is the hard right.

>> guest: i pay attention to what they are saying and i say if it is a liberal idea, if it is living up to its established reason for being in the charter and its authorized legislation, i'm for it. if it is promoting a general welfare i am for it. the government isn't evil. it is if it functions within its boundaries, but we have exceeded those and that's why the government has become dysfunctional. >> host: you quoted them extensively and you know that mark levin is the big talk radio -- these are people citing the book and there are no liberal ideas including social security. you see that you like or medicare. they are not cited here. >> guest: this is a counter argument to much of the problem that we are facing. if i thought that the government

was working well and functioning well and promoting the welfare and if i thought the tenth amendment was being looked under and all of the rights not specifically delegated to the federal government would be reserved for the states and the people and if i believed in all of that i wouldn't have written the books of thi book so this ir argument to what the left is saying about the government as the solution to the problems. he goes over the further than i would've that he basically deconstructs all the government programs and the attitude people turn to the government first. it's like a religious cult that no matter the proof that the belief is incorrect physical proof, people continue to believe in it. and i think the government has replaced. we wonder why it isn't working. >> host: even though clinton said the error of the government

-- and you hear obama say that we have to do more in terms of building up families and individual responsibilities. >> guest: i'm all for that but talk is cheap. >> host: the audience it seems is the conservative hard right as you've experienced evangelical. he wrote a brilliant columns for "the new york times." did i agree with everything clicks of course not but that doesn't mean his skills. he's onhe is one of my favorite columnists of all times. i know what each side is doing. but why a friendly. i have friends on all sides but this is a counter argument. it's like medicine that doesn't taste good. you might not like it but it's good for you. understand the arguments. tell me why three head start

programs aren't producing what they should. tell me why there are over 40 different letter of the programs in the federal government that overlap or counter one another. why is there so much duplication of the federal government programs when none of them seem to be working and producing the desired results? ..

for sailing, for fishing,, for some ale or whatever but when there's a flood that destroys property and sometimes lives. >> host: cal when we think about solutions and looking back to traditions and traditional america and looking to god and the evangelical sense of god is directing us all in every moment almost predestination if you will the question then becomes how does cal thomas think about the rising number of minorities in america or now we see more and more muslims in america. in the book it doesn't seem like you have a very welcoming attitude towards the community. >> guest: look, this is a nation that began on the issue of religious freedom. those who came from england did not want to have a state church.

i don't want the government telling me what to worship how to worship or if to worship. i'm all for that but i do think if you are going be part of america you come from another country even a different religious background then you have to be part of that pluralism. you can make your case and the public square or your belief system but i don't think you can propose propose all a bitter government government and that includes my point of view, my worldview, the christian worldview on everybody that doesn't agree with it. i think these things are one out in the marketplace. dr. king ralph abernathy and others who was fortunate enough to meet contemporary i went to that "i have a dream" speech and i was a copy boy at nbc. to change my thinking on a lot of things regarding race because i didn't know in the african-american people other than the maids that my parents employed until i started playing basketball. i knew about them but i didn't know anyone as a fellow human being. i think i'm all for muslims in

this country christians nonbelievers but there are certain people who want to infiltrate us and undermine us and i think we saw that 9/11. these guys came in and took the training in florida and other places and how to fly airplanes. they were discriminated against. they were given the same lessons that anybody else would be given. i think we have to be careful and clearly the radical islamist come out of the background top by their imams that their god wants people who don't believe in -- i'm all for people having complete freedom who don't agree with my religious or political worldview but i found increasingly that a lot of the extremists within that religion don't and they have a responsibility to speak up and isolate those people who feel that way. >> host: what comes true in the book is this kind of discouraged field about what

islam especially muslims in america are out to so the question is how would you deal with this? >> guest: i think the government has the primary responsibility and what we know we are dealing with some of it. they are monitoring some of the radical mosques. trying to deport those who were preaching hate in the imams and not just hate that insurrection wanting to bring down the british government and thinking their god commanded them to do so. he tried to deport especially those connected with some of the extremists who went out and killed people. we have a subway bombing in britain, 77 but he was constrained by their version of the aclu. i think he came to a point where he was unable to deport any of them. we want everybody to come to america under the law in an orderly fashion and we used to have the irish and the poles and the germans and others who came