>> that's my initial motivation, and it still is. it's the example of our elders before us. that force of liberation for assault. >> and i can tell you from my

experience, the reason i do this isn't because of people like paul. he may not know this, but i started my website as an experiment. i wanted, i was building websites for other companies. this was in the mid '90s, when most people didn't have a computer let alone internet access. i was building websites for people who sold flowers and things like that. one day i wanted to build -- one of my clients complain they weren't making any money from the website so i decided to build a website to make some money. that was all it was. so i built a website to sell books. it was a commodity. barnes & noble had a program at the times i built this site. i read. i went to school, but i read for information purposes, never for pleasure. but as soon as i put this website together, i met people like paul, like a lot of the

writers out here, people like linda. people who, linda cofounded the harlem book fair. that's an institution that survives today. the people that i've encountered are conscious, interesting. they tell wonderful stories. i learned a lot. i used to always say i was coming in the, the best client because while i was reading and excitedly sharing information with others, i was learning as well. that's my motivation is to share all of the stuff that we have. while a talk about all the challenges that we have, i'm still meeting great people. people who run dr. grey, clarence reynolds, the people that run the center and make this possible. you know, and i couldn't find a better caliber of people.

even the folks are recording this, c-span, they are doing us a service. booktv is a tremendous service. i'm working with people who produce programs, for example, the book club, mahogany books from paul's neighborhood. these are people to constantly struggling to do what we all do in some respects. that's a powerful motivator. you know, i made a lot of money working in corporate america, but i was never as passionate about doing what i do now, as difficult as it is, then i've been come anything else in my life almost, other than my family and children. this is important work, and your attendance is a testament to that. this should be standing room only until, but each and every one of you be sitting here, are extremely important.

that was a great question. i had to think about myself. as soon as paul -- he came out of it consciously. i had to learn, and i'm still learning. >> thank you. >> well, i joined for the usual, i joined publishing for the usual reasons, oh, i love books community am also excited about reading and working with books. but when i joined crown publishers, the editor i replaced was an african-american editor, and, who had left, and that took over our list. and it was, it was the beginning of a very steep learning curve for me, when i realized that, this was in the '90s so it was the heyday, in retrospect i realize it was the heyday of

wonderful, lots and lots of african-american publishing happening. we've gone to some kind of dark place as far as that's concerned now because not even a fraction of that kind of, those kinds of numbers of books are being published now. one of the things i discovered was only a certain kind of book was being published by black authors. hardly any other books by people of color were being published, and there were no people of color in publishing at all, except a small handful of dedicated pioneers, you know, kind of laboring away who were being put i in the position of having to explain and educate. because there were so many people who just misunderstood or didn't get it or didn't understand. that was for me the beginning of my path that i'm still on today, where i feel even as an agent

bringing writers of color, bringing writers from other countries, multinational writers, and trying to shape them in such a way that their voices can be heard. that's what keeps me going every single day. >> thank you all for entry my question, and i wish you the best of luck to continue spreading the message and the knowledge that each of you experienced and gained towards the next generation, and that generation can continue after that. >> thank you. >> i love the young generation. so i am all the way from california. >> wow. thank you, sister. [applause] >> really it's because of dr. green. i'm just so impressed. but today it's troy and it's really paul, because, and i'm embarrassed to even say that i

thought english for 35 years and just was not aware, it's just embarrassing. if that's what you come to places like this, right? so you can go away empowered. and so, but when troy, when you said the lessons that black bookstores, blacks in the country that really struck a chord with me. so i'm asking you, does that have anything to do with, like say in california, barnes & noble, noble, those bookstores of alternative business and there's very few left. i live in silicon valley. there are very few left of those bookstores. so i'm wondering if that trend is, you know they say, why do we get a cold? we get pneumonia or something. i'm wondering if it's just symptomatic of just the indust industry. >> it's a function of a lot of

things. i think in our community, however, it's an issue of economics, or rather, you know, if you read the wider media, you would think things are a lot busier than actually are. we are in a depression. if you know what i mean. there are people who are struggling, working hard, not making a lot of money. it's not, you know, and i think part of the challenges that bookstores have is that, economics. we are struggling right now. there's also an issue of waning litters a. as an educator you may have a better sense of this than i do. i teach at gt class for example, and what i'm seeing is almost criminal in terms of what's happening in our educational system. so we have, it's nothing i

passionate about as well as education. we are creating an environment of where literacy, you know, nowhere to put a, is not appreciated. so the idea that what is valued, what we look for in terms of success is your ability to generate a large number of followers by the virtue of being able to send out 140 characters about something that's probably not very meaningful, you know? and all of that, it creates an environment where, 140 characters is what's valued. that is what we work towards. when i first started building websites, the idea was to short, snippet progress to one

advantage of my website is it's written at the 12th grade level. i really need to dumb it down in order to attract more people. so the a lot of things i can do to attract more people but then it takes away from what i'm trying to do. said he can't communicate a very much of depth in 140 characters but you just can't do it. it's also hard on some of the other social platforms. and also what happens is it disappears come you can't find it until a year later. when i'm creating an archive, if you look at my website from 15 years ago or 10 years ago, you get a snapshot of what was happening, what we thought was important, what was popular. that's not being replicated and it's not just my site. there are sites -- sites are dying. they are withering away on the point. they are not being updated because we are not valuing them, not supporting them.

i can go on all day about what we need to do. i think we need to study -- more time on hours, those sites so we can bring in more important information. so i'm taking -- paul is republishing the garvey book. i'm going to share that information next week. there were people who will discover if you were unaware of it and that's how information is spread. that doesn't happen as well on social media. you've got a boatload of money, absolute. if your celebrity, scheuer. but if you're obscure, unknown author, you've got a challenge. it wasn't always like that. >> we have a black education network that we're starting nationally and this progressive black educators who were bringing quality back to our schools. schools. >> please be no meet and share that information.

>> i just want to add quick. i think it's important, it has been like, we've been publishing 40 years. before that we operate in the bookstore. been publishing 35 years before. the thing about the bookstores that troy pointed out and we don't want to loose track on this, we also were one of the artist plaque bookstores in the country but most of those bookstores, almost all of them, and i know, i guarantee i know 90% of them, rose those many of them. almost all of the booksellers began from passion, and they didn't begin because they were business people. they didn't begin primary begin with a business program, plan, but most of the people did not begin with business plans, didn't begin with financing. we begin with passion. most of the stores went out, a

model is gone. what i'm more interested in, really, passion on the one hand but what are we doing? what are we doing to create models are getting books out? that's not from the panel. that's a question for everyone that has an interest in what i'm going to create. this opportunity. >> that's a good point. the collaboration and the collective. we have a lot of power, collectively, and we act as if we don't. i work in a publishing house but you better believe where i'm from, i and a community person. so i'm doing work where i'm from, work in baltimore. i work in a lot of different places because literature and art literary tradition is actually important which is why this conference is really important. so we, if you and me, and that's

real. next question. >> i'm a member of the writers workshop. i just was wondering if anyone on the panel could speak to self-publishing versus publishing in the corporate sense, having a publisher? >> well, i want to add one thing about that. in my research for this panel i found out that two big publishing houses had the most bestsellers, and right after those two houses, self-published author for the best selling authors in 2013. so that's a big bowl of confidence right there. panelists? >> i want to take this one because i work a lot with

independent authors who have made them so successful and they would take him over mostly in romance. what i found is that a lot of the indie authors that are hugely successful were published at some point. so the take the lessons that they've learned from their publishing houses, they know they have to pay quality money for a cover, quality monday -- quality money for editing and they take all the lessons they learned about the publicity campaigns, marketing campaigns, and they do it themselves. a lot of the authors who kind of i guess luck or whatever the case, were able to build a platform on social media and self-publish, a lot of them are going back to the publishing houses because it's less work. not less work in the sense of you promoting yourself because that's one thing i always come at office, don't stop promoting yourself just because you got a deal. like we can make certain parts of it easier but you are still your biggest advocate so you still have to work tuesday and nail every day to make sure that

you are writing for this product, reaching as many people as you can reach. but i think with the publishers provide is the editing. we handle the production which is the art and paying for certain advertisement of things like that. we find with some of these indie authors they actually want to focus on branding and writing, and they don't want to focus on all the mechanics that it takes to put out a book. it really just depends on you, like what works best for you. if you have the time to be your own publicist can be a marketing person, to pay all these various different tools to put your book together, then by all means do it. it just depends on what you want to do. some people do, tried to get it pitched and it doesn't work out and they self-publish normally that's my pfiste five i said ifn get an agent or get it published i say do it. but if it doesn't work out and you want to put out, then put it out which is no, it's a lot of

work. >> i'd like to add something to that as well. went \street/{-|}street lit or urban became popular, also know that a lot of my clients are self-publish office, people who purchase advertising. one of the things that i noticed, we are increasingly old world traditional publishing. there was a vetting process, not everybody got published. that didn't always work out and i most often didn't work out to our advantage, but you could generally assumed that if a book went through the entire process that latoya and companies like heard put a book through, there's going to be a decent product. self-published books, however, they run the gamut.

terribly written, ugly book covers, not in here to any convention in terms with the cisco product looks like, to something that spectacular. and everything in between. but today we are in an environment that is not the best book that makes it, it's the best marketed book. and particularly in a self-publish arena. so if you have someone who is hungry, aggressive, is willing to stand up in front of the bookstore, or any store, or when a play set out into selling books, out there day after day after day grinding, you know, it's almost hard to hold that back. it's interesting to see that the most supportive people of aalbc were formally incarcerated people. truth is, you know, she was

locked up and the selling books like crazy. but when she came out, she buys as to this day. she's got a site running right now. she's an amazing person. when you look at, you don't see that as much from the authors who are in house. someone who is not typical. she supports booksellers. she goes out of her way to support. the are a few others i could mention, and i apologize for not being able to do that, but every book she got the concept, she buys. terry mcmillan, last book that came out, she bought a a net. that type of support is critical, but for self-published author, you better, you either are a genius at doing all the stuff, marketing, which is important, meaning is there a

universe of people out there, how many people will actually want to buy the book and enjoy it. it's not everybody. it's some number. they've got the formula. are you a marketing expert? how are you going to get it out? there's a lot of things you need to know. if you don't have the time, money or energy, you've got to have really all of those but if you don't have it, you are going to be dead in the water. i don't care how good your book is your because -- if i do say anything i would say money first. >> thank you. this is if on hilton who has a great book for self. century. i've got to get that in because i know she probably won't do it. >> you're a publicist. that's one down.

>> actually, she is. i have to thank her. it wasn't the question i was coming up with, but you did say something that was very informative to i guess those of us who either have self-published or are thinking about it. but my question to you was, for authors and many of us who are here are probably authors, would be authors, will be authors but we don't know you guys. many of us will send out our manuscripts to people who will reject them without making them because they are too busy. i know i had that experience. how do authors note to get in touch with you all, for example, or people like you? because i could not find anything that said these are the

black agents, or agents are really interested in black work, black historical fiction, for example, from, say, the 18th century. which is kind of not what really is out there selling, but is the sort of thing that, take the sample, i write. normally when any author asks me for agent or publisher recommendations, technically we are not allowed to give them. so what i normally say is whatever book you like to read or whatever book that you feel like, represents the kind about your writing, check the front matter to you can do that on amazon with the look inside. most authors thank the edge. most authors thank the agent. author websites, also provide that information. most publishers have editorial brochures where they tell you

who was there and what the their aquatic the it's all about the research. workshops, writers conference is oftentimes have editors and agents who are the representing their company. for taking a peek at who is aware, that's also helpful but it really think it just boils down to knowing your market as well, even as a writer. again, you can write a great book but you have to know who the audience is and who you're trying to reach and you yourself as an author even with or without a publisher, you have to know how to reach those people who are working, going to the parks and the shows and selling your book in the trunk, like that's what people do with and without publishers. the grind never stops. i feel like it's just a matter of checking out the publishers. you can do a google search and most of them will pop up to amazon again looking at some of these writers that write similar

subject matter and things like that and really just looking at the front matter of the website. it will usually tell you the editor or the agents are. >> and the last question. >> hi, everybody. i'm an author of a coffee table book and have worked on to others. my question is, culture is so visually rich. what advice would you have to get to those of us who want to document visually? when i see visually i mean coffee table books with photography. i mean -- i'm sorry. i mean, little novelty books that are very visually driven or even graphic novels. >> you know, let me switch hats, okay? the other thing i do is inside black classic press is workers are printing company. so i'm going to try from that because i just talked with some folks last night about exactly the same thing. coffee table books and novelty

books tend to be on the expensive side for most publishers to take on. it's not only the question of the production of them to get to the quality to represent what you were doing visually, but it's also the marketing and sales of them. so the challenge for most publishers, even most publishers that specialize in making those books have a very, very hard time with them. it's an area certainly that one could consider if you want to invest your money in come and talk about in terms of self production yourself but even then becomes an expensive thing. what we are talking about in the world of print, that area has become a more, the barriers to entry that have become higher and higher and higher as the need to produce becomes greater and greater complexity to produce more and more. most are sending quality books out of country to get them

produced the that's a lot and you can't have an audience who's going to buy the books. this becomes a consideration and question for you as an author and certainly most publishers will take you put your own publishing hat on for that. it's not that it can't be done. those are things you're going to encounter in researching your move towards doing them. >> that's definitely true. and i think also because the production costs for color book is what we call them is so high they end up being priced i. but even if you do get them into the bookstores, they are like 40 and $50. we know that over all our economy is rough and people aren't really spending a lot of money. people what the $2, $3 book. will he spend $50 for coffee table book unless they are that passionate about the photographs. so some of my friends who have done them are doing virtual ones.

i mean, because if it costs less to produce them, you can upload the images. you get them edited and you know you've got a digital book versus a print book that might be 40 or $50, and so 500 copies. >> i noticed when i share information about coffee table books with really nice images, there's a lot of engagement. people, there's interest in them and i've seen a couple. i really wish i could in the title of these books but i received recently, one was a photograph coffee table book about harlem. there were shots of harlem from the '70s. i could've been in one of those shots. i loved the book and actually, i did sell it. but and it was priced reasonably. i thought it was priced reasonably and it was certainly less than 50. there was a few hundred pictures in a. it was about this thick.

heavy, really nice if you. and it was one of the things i said to myself, hardcover books will never disappear because you can't replicate those, you know, on a tablet or a screen. it up tactile thing that, is expensive to produce but from what i'm saying now, they're doing at a price point that is very compelling. it was a nice book. [inaudible] >> i'm sorry? [inaudible] i don't remember. but if you subscribe to my newsletter, i will put it in my newsletter the next issue, i guarantee. it will be in the next issue. >> audience, you were fabulous and we are on time. thank you, panelists. [applause]

>> you are watching booktv, nonfiction authors and books every weekend on c-span2. >> you are watching booktv. next an interview with kate bowler about her book contender chokes up a long, long history of the prosperity gospel in the united states and profiles prosperity gospel cheaper like joel osteen, t. d. jakes and joyce meyer. this any those recorded at the washington duke inn in term of july. >> "blessed" is think of the book, "a history of the american prosperity gospel" is the subtitle. duke university professor of religion kate bowler is the author. professor pohl, what is the prosperity gospel? >> it's a develop -- how faith

reaches out into the invisible and brings back material things spend what is pentecostal? >> pentecostalism is a movement that sprang up in the early '20s century, kind of rough and tumble, openness to spiritual gas but centers on the power of god to be spoken what they call spiritual tongues. but it's a wonder mentality that god is just around the corner. you just have to keep your eyes open. so the prosperity gospel is one version of that the looks of slightly different things. >> when you say things, does the prosperity gospel mean wealth if you follow this was? >> sure. pentecostals were materials. they said the body was got so big is one of the most kind of profoundly american thing she could say. you're not just an individual. you are someone that can be a manifestation of god's very

presence. so the prosperity gospel took that to say, this could be interpreted more concretely not just in your health which is been a historic christian tenant but also in your finances. the they develop more and more for kegler to help christians think who ever lived to in the life was proof that god was there. spent is this uniquely american? >> i think in some ways it's a kind of the indigenous american gospel. it's rugged individualism. it is supernatural bootstrap. it has an incredibly high anthropology and there is no meeting a kind of sense of what people can do. there's really no nation that is more confident in what they can accomplish than this one. >> who are some of the creatures of the prosperity gospel works do they call it the prosperity gospel? >> that's a tough question. some the creatures i would include, the most popular are joel osteen, t. d. jakes, joyce