but what is also engaging with russia and look at what it has gotten us. what good has it done? and i don't expect russian to be like a western value country. but it doesn't live up to abide by these issues and it comes back to the corner have tried to raise and so what are we going to do about it?

>> they will accept the international aggression and needless to say, i don't think so. >> okay. we are going to go right here in the night here and then right here. >> okay. >> i served as a foreign service officer. >> given that there is no ukrainian crisis without western and russian agreement and cooperation ukraine is in a category all by itself and it is

part of the solution that has worked very well. that is a liberal democrat see, dynamic, transparent, but with a warrant hall's the, which is essentially neutral and very attentive to russian concerns. >> i think that democracy the democracy on the finish line was a good idea and it is not prepared to accept any democracy in ukraine because that means that ukrainians explain that their regime is not acceptable and that is not acceptable to us. so i don't see that this is the direct cause and that is why i want to contain the action.

>> okay. tom, andrew? >> i think that there is a solution to the ukrainian crisis but it is going to be one of we have to take into account the interest of ukrainians themselves and all their multitude and different opinions. but also it is just the reality of the way the world operate and the powers that have this. i think you are right that for whatever reason they have, they have an attitude towards the ukraine that is more salient for them than it is for many people in the west. and there is some type of an agreement among the united states and russia and the european union. and i also think that if you look at the other things that

have been proposed, the russian collet federalization and decentralization and i realize that the devil is in the detail in something like this. and this includes the certain rights that can be provided that don't undermined in this and what it is that a society, how it rebuild the economy and how it is important and it's something that we ought to look at. and i think at the end of the day all crises like this are resolved politically for diplomatic means.

it's something along those lines which is where we are going to end up. and i would hope sooner as opposed to later but that would depend on attitudes and a number of situations as well. >> what ukrainians determine their own future and then we will talk about an agreement that would make the ukrainian situation neutral. and nato needs to make his decisions in the context of which it operates. the russians have said this is a rough line. yes, they do not have to accept the ukraine because a number of them say that they want to come into nato. they have to look at their own interests in a broader spectrum. so yes, i am in agreement among

the nato members at the ukraine will be neutral. and it does provide the type of political space that they need in order to focus on their domestic problems. and nato declared and in the past several years no one has been pushing this with nato. this is a red herring. and yet oddly enough it actually increased cooperation and he made it clear there are other things it was you to resolve and that is a false issue that has been raised. we met we are going to move onto this second situation. >> yes, hello, my name is anna

and i am half russian and half green. i want to make a comment because i feel like i don't have much expertise on what americans have to do, certainly. but i can do that will russian and ukrainian. for example, it was said that there was hardly one person in moscow that does not or russia. and nine days ago 50,000 people in the streets of moscow and many were of cinema don't push wish it on anyone to be put in russian jail. and two days ago and it was part of this with people that trusted

me. writers and actors in the intellectual individuals, they were demonstrating and it was cold and i may be as many of his many ukrainians and russians are. but i do believe that the freedom of the press, it is very important to hear about this. he was the most delightful, at admirable way of people self-expression in the ukraine. and the only question i can ask is how often can we bring this. >> tom, if you.

>> no one wants to denigrate their country. they want a greater interest of the country. the question is to what been that they have. and as opposed it is that the ukraine needs to conduct an election and who speaks for the ukrainian point and it didn't anticipate so let's re-legitimize this the election process and see what decisions they make.

>> [inaudible] >> i was in the ukraine a year and a half ago. >> we have this gentleman next to him. >> evening, gentlemen. i would like to ask tom and andrew about something david said this is a question that my polish friends ask me. if russian troops moved into the ukraine, should the united states and the nato allies move more troops into the baltics? after all why would putin has says that he has the interest in the right to assert russian power in defense of russia. there are a lot that lived there

and live in lithuania and other governments are pretty nervous about the situation. would you favor what david does, which is a reinforcement? more nato chirps and i have no doubt that they are heading in that direction. and so i think it's a question of the presence and what modality is. so if the tragedy is a part of full-scale military intervention . and it's probably part of the most exposed. >> i do worry a little bit that we, in the west, we are setting the bar so high for triggering a response and we can't set the

bar so high that we may say, if he does this, well, we won't do anything. welcome he started doing it. as david said and you have reflected and israel will question it. everyone around the world will question our credibility. and then they will also smile and that makes me very worried. >> a lot of the discussion has been about the potential cost of resisting russia. and i would like to ask what would be the cost of not

resisting russia. in other words, not just the message that it sends to iran, but also to china and china's neighbors and north korea and democratizing the former soviet republics. >> would you like to start? >> yes, happy to do so. and this is my very point. the alternative to the sanctions and we are already seeing the war starting in ukraine and there is no reaction here. i find that it is extremely dangerous and i think that we have a situation now which is worse than this in vienna in june of 1961.

>> andrew, what do you think? >> i think it is hard to say and i think they all know is the start of the situation and there's a lot of and i think that there is a question and so i think that it is not surprising that these and others basically said we have seen what is happening and i am part of

the super program. a quick clarification. finland's prime minister said that finland is not neutral. and he made quite clear that if the eu would vote for sanctions that finland would go along with sanctions. so that is just part of this. the very last sentence that you made in your initial presentation was we should find some way to accommodate the interests. and isn't the real problem could be a democratic prosperous ukraine with which it could trade it do all the normal things that those do. we are talking about what he considers to be his interest in

his interest is to make it impossible for a real democracy on his doorstep to function. and so isn't there a difference between what russia's interest should be for the 21st century and what that of mr. clever coot and's interest is? >> okay. tom? >> you know, again we often don't know what other people know more than others do themselves. we have to deal with those that exist and he enjoys a tremendous amount of public support. how am i we can go into some discussion of that. but it is not immediately obvious that his foreign policy

dozen enjoyed this with the russian political elite and the middle classes and so that is what we have to deal with. so yes, it may be a democratic society on the borders and why should they be opposed to that in the problems of perception and we have to deal with, whenever we go about our own policy we have to think through the eyes of the others and is tied what we need to do in order to advance our interests.

and so it is where we are now, is where we wanted to be? is this how he thought the process will unfold? is it something that we overlook the we should have dealt with. and we have achieved a result. >> if you want to split it up, go ahead. >> the problem is the russian invasion that started on the 27th of february, which was then the ukrainian government was appointed. so this was the problem. what remains totally unclear as

to why they should have to accept all kinds of conditions. >> i'm sorry, we don't have time for questions. we have one more in the front. >> the next day the blood started flowing on the streets of cab and so if you want this

money, go clear the streets and that is what we are talking about at the kremlin. >> thank you very much. and i think that it is wrong to diminish this crisis between the ukraine and russia or any particular country. this is crisis between the free world and therefore all serve we have to stop the judging or guessing what vladimir like vladimir putin wants. i think that this should be and i am in a free world who stands

behind it. and what are the consequences if we want to do it now. >> i'm not totally sure that i hear the question. when you look at the steps of the president has taken about where he stands and where his values are, i think the question is the american people. do they intend to have the ultimate sacrifice on behalf of the ukraine. >> of the u.s. stands for universal values and freedoms and human rights, should we not put it in a small terms and bespeaking that the u.s. is

standing up for its universal values of freedom and human rights and democracy, not just in europe and in the free world? >> my impression is that is what we do and that that is sort of the nature of any administration that is in power. so i think that what we are seeing right now is a really complicated situation and i think we are all worried about escalation as well as a war. so for us to be strident, suggesting that there is a solution at hand, or that there will just be cut loose. so i think what the administration is trying to do, and it will be really hard.

>> so what is the best way? how do you ensure that type of progress. the different ways and thoughts about how to do that.

>> i can't think of the last time i bought a finnish russian product in the u.s. or they don't make anything out once i'm not sure what sacrifices you are talking about. and they worked really well and i have zero hope that this is going to work out and to not get russians and so it's going to be an enormous waste of time. and i will demonstrate that we are considering additional

sanctions. >> very quickly. what david is saying is that there is no is a price on our part. and then the specific case and what sacrifices would you make? and i will ask each of the participants to offer one minute and i do mean one minute.

and we have had a few people that wrote it on twitter and you can think about some of these things. and what are you are kickoffs for us? a couple of things you want in trade or impact.

and r the financial impact. and not in 89, this is much more competent. >> banks, individuals, and there's along with the we can all put together and it's a little hard to do when rush is taking over their territory.

and let's not forget crimea. and we have never recognized the source of an by the soviet unions. >> okay. tom, the last word. and we need to open up the channels that allow us even while the threat of this further

violence continues. [applause] >> and we also have one more round of applause for our fabulous moderator? [applause] >> you can find it again on our website and we are trying to

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