c-span3. >> up next on booktv, "after words" with juan williams, this week syndicated columnist cal thomas and his latest book "what works: common sense solutions for a stronger america." in it he argues that solving the country's problems starts at look at what worked in the past and listening to voters. this program is about an hour. >> host: we are joined by cal thomas come his new book, "what works: common sense solutions for a stronger america." four by sean hannity. it tells you a lot about this book. >> guest: he is a very good friend of course and harpercollins which is publishing the book thought that he would be a very good person to have two right before. i was happy to do. nancy pelosi was not available, so i was glad to have this forward. he did a good job.

>> host: this is intended for a conservative audience that do not necessarily. solving the problems are not liberal or conservative, republican or democrat. with serious challenges facing us that affects everybody regardless of their political background or persuasion. >> host: if you sean hannity, it believes to me he is quite a poplar figure among hardline conservatives. >> guest: sure he is but we try to reach out in this book, naturally i believe conservative ideas provide the best solutions for the problems facing america but as i sit in the book, if a liberal comes up with an idea that works and proves itself and lives up to its stated objective, i'm for. i'm for social security. i'm for medicare and all these programs that were created mostly in liberal democratic administrations but i want to take a look at them to see if they need to be updated for a modern age and the modern age and approve if the network and we need to revise it would get rid of them. >> host: the thesis of this book, and are going to come back to that idea because it's when

you play with in the book, but the idea is what works, what actually works and what do we know has worked in the past, commonsense solutions that come from the past. in some sense come not only from the political realm but for you from your deep faith. >> guest: there's a -- there's nothing new under the sun but everything you think has been thought before, everything you do has been done before but i'm not talking about living in the past but i'm talking about looking to the past to see what has worked, updating it is necessary in moving forward. if you go to another country for the first time, you usually get a guidebook or google paris, france, for something, find out where the best hotels are, the best restaurants, places to be avoided. these are people who have gone before us to scope out the cities and to recommend the best places for us. we have the founders of our country who understood human nature at least as well as the

preachers other day and they created a constitution that established boundaries for government but unlimited life, liberty for a system. i believe that has gotten out of whack and we've exceeded those boundaries, those constitutional boundaries and that's why we have so many other problems and challenges we have today. >> host: in previous books you had migrated you were saying disengage from public life and a public square. people would write, get that perception given your emphasis on simply focus on the individual capacity and individual responsibility, move away from government, don't look to government to meet your needs to look to the individual and look to god. >> guest: i think that's where alit all begins. the founders shortly saw power delegated from the people to the government, not government overpowering us. that's why government has grown so big and dysfunctional. i do think there's anybody in clean the biggest liberal who thinks everything is working

well and out to just be pouring more money into it and growing government ever bigger. thomas seoul, a great writer and a friend has written, i have this card i carry it around like bob dole cares the 10th amendment. much of the social history of the western world over the past three decades has involved replacing what works with what sounded good. our friend bob dunkel who is on fox, aye this book and to a column for "usa today" called common ground, acknowledges many of the social programs were begun in good faith in the lyndon johnson administration. the so-called great society. he acknowledges now that we didn't take into consideration human nature, that giving people a check and providing women with checks when the babies out of wedlock was not only not good for them, it wasn't good for the country. we've moved a long way from john kennedy's great and i go admonition, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country.

>> host: you believe people should remain engage with government and with politics fancy absolutely or i wouldn't be writing my syndicated column for the last 30 years. i'm saying you shouldn't expect more out of government that it can deliver. and less out of yourself than you can deliver. things like character and virtue and integrity cannot be instilled by government. those are moral and spiritual issues, like table ministry you have to be taught not to interrupt adults at the table. when i was going up, not to make sure peace with your mashed potatoes, even with the night because of my been easier, or spoon. you have to be taught certain things. these matters, conducting yourself with adults if you're a child, these are all things that have to be taught. i think personal responsibility and integrity, looking out for himself, looking to government as a last resort, not a first resource is what will improve any light and approve our country. >> host: somehow i get the impression you think liberals

are people who, in fact, we be overly reliant on government and to have some of these virtues that you just described, personal responsibility, wanting to work, wanting to succeed in america, wanting to contribute, write? >> guest: i know many liberals and yourself who have this character qualities. but the problem is, so many of my liberal friends, even though they may have those character qualities look to government to repair what is wrong with people who don't have those character qualities. we know what the problems are. a stable family is the best guarantee of a stable home. and people being able to take care of themselves. we know this. judith wallerstein who i quoted above, the late sociologist, did a study of the effects of divorce on children she studied it for 25 years. we know that divorce harms children. many of them, some people survive but many of them don't. these are some the things i explore in the book. if it's a liberal idea and it

works, promotes the general welfare that i'm for. i do think we have to see just because it's a liberal or conservative idea we should pay attention and do an. >> host: you say president obama, i think you are describing as a liberal -- >> guest: no question. >> host: you say he took advantage of the human instinct for indian greed in order to get elected. >> guest: i think the unholy trinity is indeed, greed and intolerant. i think we see that in his constant statements about income inequality, he's running down of large corporations and businesses who employ an awful lot of people who themselves be an awful lot of taxes, instead of building people up. calvin coolidge once said, you don't improve the week by tearing down the strong. i want more people to be rich. i want more people to be independent. i want more families to be stable. all of these things on them for. who could be against that?

the president is out there and a lot of democrats are out there constantly bashing success, penalizing success, subsidizing failure. what you penalize you get this up and which are subsidized you get more of. >> host: it's interesting community background having worked for the moment jordy jerry falwell, and then in this book you talk about -- at the white house as the present special visor but also head of the office of faith and public service i might be misquoting the exact title. he has written a book and he talks about how the president reads daily meditations and scripture and talk about other people in the city, washington, d.c., and the federal government who do the same. you say he is off when he comes to his message because what he talks about is the idea that government should care for people who are in need as opposed to individuals. you make it seem as if he's saying, god wants us to have

compassion and, therefore, obama and the liberals think that means government should be compassionate and you are saying no. you are saying -- >> guest: times in the government ought to be a last resort, not a first resource. government can become addictive like a drug. liklike a drug to become on a government check rather than yourself but in britain were spent a lot of time in the uk, the daily mail did a story a few months ago on a family three generations of people who have never worked, who had been on their version of welfare public assistance. not only have they never worked, they didn't expect to job. when they were told by david cameron's administration that they should start looking for work, they were offended. that's the kind of addiction that, not in everybody but into many people, that the government brings. i don't question the president's faith. that's not my business but i do think in certain areas there ought to be a connection if you reach the scriptures every day about human life, about

marriage, you can disagree, on taxes, the defense budget and still not be in danger of going to hell. but i think there are certain basic things that if you are a serious believer, an orthodox, a sears christian, that scripture teaches that are to carry over into public policy. mario cuomo, former governor of new york had a speech a number of years ago at notre dame. he taught himself, he taught himself in a trap. he said i set my church's teaching when it comes to the death penalty for convicted murderers that doesn't accept what comes to abortion for the innocent unborn. i find that to be an incredible inconsistency. >> host: many people on the right are for the death penalty, even as they oppose abortion. they are caught in this trap. >> guest: sometimes but the difference is when you have a convicted murderer, somebody has taken a life of another person. that's a whole lot different

morally from an innocent unborn child who is never have a chance to take a breath of life. >> host: this conversation could go on. the planned parenthood people at their present would talk about the life of the living woman being important to let me ask you going back to president obama and let's say the quintessential or prototype of a liberal in your book. your point is that while the government can be compassionate but you don't want it to be compassionate. you want to focus on what works and, therefore, you're talking about individuals having the responsibility or i guess this sort of they are christian, jewish, muslim, whatever their belief, having a sense that they should be compassionate but it's up to the individual, not up to government to take care of the poor. >> guest: let me go back to another book written in the early '80s that newt gingrich when you speak of the house handed out to everyone in congress, called the tragedy of american compassion and it was written by marvin alaska.

he went back and looked at the major religious institutions, the jewish, the christian groups who cared for the poor as a first responsibility. but in their caring for the poor they require some kind of response. in other words, if you are poor because your dru drug addict ora call at community into a program to get rid of your addiction. then will help you. we're no not going to sustainedn a bad lifestyle choices. if you're having possibly babies out of wedlock with no husband, no father in him, when the quintessential check to continue to do that. we will help you because it wasn't their fault that we're not going to allow you to continue to have kids out of wedlock and send you a check. the whole point of the jewish and christian institutions at the time was to reform these people so they would lead a better life, that would be better in the end for themselves. they have been replaced, they retreated to the sidelines by government. it's become what i call a perversion of the 23rd psalm. the government is my keeper, i

shall not want. >> host: it's interesting though in looking at this, you talk about expansion of the entire society to describe something as republican refrain. and i think to myself as i'm reading, there's a reference to the fact we went through this horrible recession, really, people now call it the great recession in reference to the great depression. and as the confidence of that, not only has there been more reliance on the public safety net, including entitlement, but we've done things like bailout the rich. >> guest: i agree with that. i'm all for safety net that i'm against the hammock. nancy pelosi said if you give us the power back again, we're going to drain the swamp they got the car back and instead she built a hot tub. i don't think government is the first resource. take a look at the recession but what was the primary reason for

the recession? government was spending too much. and a lot of big companies like gm and others, because of union pressure, to ratchet up these benefits and economists that they have no hope in paying because of what the union pressure and the threats of strikes. and you got to a point where gm let's take one example could no longer afford based on how many cars they were selling to pay off these benefits, a crisis ensued the same with the treasury department. print more money, print more money. never come to the point where you tell people, we can't do this anymore but it's like a college student goes off to college and he or she is on a budget and they blow it in the wild living in the first weekend, for turkey parties or storyboards and calm him down with a hangover and say i'm all out of money, send more. if you do your a fool because you indulge in the behavior that is not in their best interest. that's what the federal government has done for too many years. >> host: i don't think that's

right. i think as i understand the cause of the great recession, it was, in fact, we have a housing bubble in the housing bubble broke. secondly, people on wall street were engaging in high-risk maneuvers, investment instruments that proved to be faulty and collapsed and caused wall street to implode. >> guest: i agree. let's take fannie or freddie since you brought that up. why did housing bubble occur and why did it explode? because president over several administrations of both parties wanted to be able to get up and say under my administration more people own their own homes than ever before. that is a worthy goal. if your hand at money to people with bad credit, who have income levels that cannot sustain after these balloon mortgages after seven years, and reset and they can't afford it, that's the problem. too many people came to expect that they should be able to live in a nice big house when they didn't have income to sustain a. part of this is a political problem and part of it is a

moral problem and part of it is an economic problem. you are right about wall street as well. absolutely right. anybody who saw the hbo film, i care member the name, that portrayed all of this, everybody was living beyond their means. everybody was greedy. everybody wanted to make more and more money, and everybody was willing to cut whatever course in order to do so. i guess this isn't just a left-right republican/democrat thing. as they used to say in one or two, we are all in this together. >> host: in this together. post-fight interview presented was initially all about government overspending, individuals making bad decisions, and what you see if you look at the housing market, the housing industry and what happened, and you look at what we know happened on wall street, it seems to me that you have a lot of very wealthy people, and people who were acting as lone wolves come individuals, i'm out for myself. i will give future to but i'm going to make a lot of money. a lot of that are a self

obsessed at the country. >> host: it hurt the country because the government bailed out aig and some of these other -- i would've left them collapse. this is one of the problems. it's not just indulging in subsidizing the poor. it's indulging in subsidizing the rich. >> host: i don't see that in this book. >> guest: i only have so me pages and edited got a lot of stuff. i say this in my columns and i said during the aig failure. and the business under the bush administration to in the last interview, the president george w. bush did with me before he left office, he said a lease i stuck to my principles. i said, but what about getting out aig? how is that sticking to principles? all this government money. he said what would you done? i said i would've stuck to my principles. i have failed a lie. i've been fired. one time i had to go down to the unemployment office back when is only 26 weeks and not 99 weeks

as it is now to get an unemployment check. but failure is a great teacher for those who will learn from it. the best thing that could've happened wall street, the best thing that could've happened to gm in my view is for them to have failed and to restructure under the bankruptcy long, to reestablish themselves. not get a government handout. >> host: when wall street employed you are impacting pensions, 401(k)s, the entire financial structure of america. would have been cratered. people in the congress, the bush administration, good republicans as was the obama administration were told, we are all in a financial calamity. we as an american people have to come together to resolve this. >> guest: this is one of the problems why things don't work in washington. on the ledge of trial lawyers and other groups who spent a lot of money to democratic politicians but on the right, republicans can wall street, big corporations to send a lot of money to politicians. when the objective is to only

get reelected as it's often is with something like a 97% reelection rate in this town, when that's the objective instead of doing the business of the people, you are going to have dysfunctional nonworking government. i had become a political environmentalist. i believe in recycling trash and politicians for the same reason, because each left in one place too long leads to a foul smell. there's a disease in this done. you come in with the best ethics and it doesn't take very long for you to get corrupted. get them out before they catch it. >> host: most americans agree. the polls indicate there's a "wall street journal" poll briefly 54% americans say throw all the bums out. >> guest: don't reelect them them. >> host: that's not the really. you do speak about term limits in this book, "what works: common sense solutions for a stronger america," and when it comes to kind of the basis of the financial structure, the government taxes, which he said is what has worked is always low

taxes. because according to cal thomas, the gospel according to cal thomas, what happens is that if you lower taxes, it results in more receipts for the government. in fact, the government gets more money. but what about the contrary point which could be that, you know what, taxes are pretty low right now under the obama administration. taxes were low under clinton administration. taxes were low under the bush administration. >> guest: its accommodation. it's not just the taxes. it's the spending but that's what is god us out of whack. even when the republicans are in office, even when they hold all three branches of government, the spending continues to increase the maybe a little us than when the democrats are in office but let's go back to woodrow wilson, world war i. right after world war i, the taxes were finally got and we had the roaring '20s. there were other problems that

led to the great depression. i understand that, yes, of course. coming out of that we get to 1960 and john kennedy and his famous detroit economic club speech about cutting taxes. there was a rush of new revenue because people were taking their money out of safe havens and bring it back into the marketplace. as i said in a book with trillions of dollars sitting on the sidelines now. yes the stock market is at an all time high, but unemployment especially for the hard-core unemployed and those of you looking for jobs for many months continue to be without work. people who want to work. we saw a slight uptick in the unemployment rate because more people are showing to look for work again. they have a slightly increased level of optimism. but again, calvin coolidge, i want people to be taxed less so they have more. when you and i have more money to spend, we are going to spend it or invest it and that's what creates jobs. rating it as.

bush 43 new this. even bill clinton the way down to speak to a group of houston businessman right after a tax increase he helped push the congress said you probably think i raised your taxes too much. so do i. there's a case of having it both ways. >> host: what's interesting been listening to this, you will remember that under clinton we actually had not only the same tax rates we have now, in fact they were a little higher, but we had a surplus. >> guest: we have a surplus because the democrats led by the president were cutting defense and cutting spending on some of what most people would agree, particularly in the age of terrorism and that the rise of china and iran's nuclear program, even the president announced he wants to cut the military more. others are getting this message that the united states doesn't have the will much less the wherewithal to stand against tyrants around the world. clinton got the defense budget and when to cut spending and you maintain a certain level of

revenue, you're going to get a balanced budget, probably a surplus. i have a chapter in the book on what's happening in the states. we have indiana, louisiana, georgia, a lot of states out there who are doing fantastic jobs, many of them balanced budgets are state constitutions require them. i wish we would have at the federal level. but also because of the policy. in indiana, the star state in my view of the country, they send people checks when they have enough money. this is an amazing thing to me. they say, we don't need all this money. the federal government of course, the word goes out, the into the fiscal year if you haven't spent it all, spend it all because you budget might be cut next year. in indiana this int injured jay. what a remarkable thing. >> host: that brings us to another topic you address in "what works: common sense solutions for a stronger america" which is big government and you quote rush limbaugh extensively with regard to big government is terrible and you

quote the federalist papers and all the rest. you have to some explain to me how is it you can say, but social security, medicare, these things that our seniors rely on, that's a good thing, clearly you're a big fan of defense spending and that's of course, guess what, the founding fathers were not about international use of our military overseas. >> guest: thomas jefferson would find it difficult. he sent marines to the barbary coast. >> host: eventually. but their initial precept was we have nothing to do with the. >> guest: they live in a different age. they're still a strength of that in the country to big let's talk about defense. this may surprise you, bob and i agree on this. there are lots of weapon systems in planes and ships that the military has said they don't want and don't need, yet because those things are built in the district of congressman so-and-so, they get billed anyway because mixing or look good, great more jobs.

this is the wasteful spending i'm talking about. it's both left and right. i think what we need is something akin to the grace commission during the reagan administration or the bracket commission, the base relent and closing commission during i think the clinton administration. outside group with integrity, former members of cars, no current elected politicians to come in and do a complete audit of government from top to bottom. every agency of government has a piece of legislation or a charter that created it. it has a purpose. it's not fulfilling that purpose or not doing it within reasonable budget, he should be cut or eliminate. let's take head start. this came in with highest motivation. do you know, and again until research this, there are now three head start, early head start, enhanced head start and regular head start. wide where the other two? the first one wasn't working. why do we have the third one? because the second one wasn't

working. the doctor found by the time a child who goes to one of his head start programs is in the fifth grade, all of the benefits that might have accrued in the first two years of his or her life are gone. "usa today" had a recent lead editorial which said head start at best, at best is mediocre. so what i'm saying is if it doesn't work or if it's something like social security which was never intended to be the kind of program it is today with intended to be a safety net, and in insurance program, but we've added all these bells and whistles on to it, huge christmas tree, and this is what it's become dysfunctional and going broke, same with medicare. the initial idea was a good one but politicians always add so far and it becomes dysfunctional. >> host: this brings us to one of the interesting chapters

about education. because basically you are saying, they are always talking about these people who know too little who rely on religion, evangelicals do nothing, no nothing voters and the like. and cal thomas comes out in what works and says wide use in kids off to these big schools, harvard, llama, princeton? you say smart parents can even if they're called do nothing shouldn't be sending the kids to those schools. >> host: let's take a look at this recent debate that's going on in continuing between governor andrew cuomo of new york and newark city mayor bill de blasio over charter schools. we know during his campaign for mayor, mayor de blasio said he was going to basically and charter schools and has this major rivalry with this woman in new york who is a big proponent of it. andrew cuomo in a speech a few days ago, a remarkable speech, if you show me the words and didn't tell me who said, i would've said it was delivered

by conservative republican. he said we spend more money in your state per capita than anywhere else on public education. and get we are number 32 in the nation in terms of achievement in math, reading and other essentials that we would agree are up so they required to make anything out of her life. so he same without have this school choice in this area. what i'm saying in the book and cornell university is so my liberal friends are for choice or against choice when it comes to public schools. and especially are poor and minority children. we have a reversal of george wallace standing in the schoolhouse door to keep african-americans out more than 50 years ago, we now have people standing in the schoolhouse door, the poor school, to keep children and women all know a good education is a ticket to a child's success and competition whether its package delivery or restaurant, improves everyone. so all i'm saying is let's have

choice in education but let's let parents decide which schools, public, private religious is best for the kid and less passionate let's also tell parents if you don't want your kids to have their faith and with history of this country undermined, don't send them to colleges and universities that do that. >> host: that's what you're saying don't send your kids to the best colleges in america. in terms of the competitive marketplace where you see people with money and advantages send their children if they send in to stanford, harvard but you are saying don't send them because you believe and i think, those schools challenge some of the precepts of religious. >> guest: i just recently this woman called in, public school child is getting some kind of indoctrination about the pilgrims and the early colonists, that somehow the

native americans were you called people were at peace with each other and these horrible white europeans invaded and gave them syphilis and gonorrhea and stole the court and kill them off in all this other stuff. this is the kind of stuff that's being taught increasingly in a government school system. ..

like anything else, would've competition. >> host: once i can't but take a moment and say challenging orthodoxy does not interview them have been as children learn how to think critically? >> i'm not thinking critically all the time. all kinds of ideas in the newspapers for which i write, the television on which i appear on billboards pc all the time. when you have a child, you have to train them properly get them to the point where they can make critical decision. you have to have a certain foundation and purpose for living. and living. and i just had to get an education to make money by stuff. it's not going to make me happy or driving a spiritual and moral dimension to badgers that. that is what is missing in government schools. >> host: helper does not a

government. >> guest: were talking about two different things. harvard, dartmouth camille at princeton were all founded on ethical principles, some to train preachers condescend to trade missionaries. you go there now, all of that is gone. i remember him saying they didn't pc when he was president of harvard president century ago said it least it should be expected of a harvard crowd at undergraduate. too bad the the school's god is becoming. >> host: will take a short break and be right back with cal thomas with his new book, "what works: common sense solutions for a stronger america." >> host: we are back with cal

thomas, author of a new book called "what works: common sense solutions for a stronger america." cow come at the end of the book you write outside the equivalent of testimony time in church where we can start showcasing people who once lived in poverty. now self-sufficient uk's they embrace the conservative and historically sound principles of kansas. inspiration followed by motivation. first, explain kansas. postcard in his speech reproduced in the book in which the kansas chamber of commerce 18 months or so ago. sam brownback, former united states senator, now governor of the state has created some tremendous business friendly programs they are better increasing employment and lowering taxes and kansas city were talking about eliminating state income taxes. i forget the exact number.

seven or eight states now do not have a state income tax. years ago it was only two. north carolina and florida. many realized this become an inhibitor to prosperity. i do say i firmly believe that i've applied my own life inspiration followed by motivation for perspiration and person elected to hold the whole testimony is meant to convey the attitude i once was blind but now i see. i grew up poor but not the ceo. dr. ben carson is a lot lately, the former chief of pediatric neurosurgery at johns hopkins hospital, a perfect example of how people can overcome by her circuit dances. inner-city teacher had a horrible time from a single mother, et et cetera, et cetera. we don't tell their stories in america. america is a storytelling

nation. >> host: in the book you have an entire section of people who would give these testimony and you tell their stories. rather than have me pick out one or two, why don't you pick up one or two until the stories? johnny erickson is a quadriplegic who had next day when she was 17 years old soon struggled a lot with disparate meaning of life, taught herself to pay by sticking a paint brush in her teeth and has created a lot of things. work with handicapped people and push strongly the americans with disabilities act and has been an inspiration to millions including people who do not have physical challenges. there's a couple of african people in their grep in horrible circumstances you couldn't even imagine if you are writing a work of fiction that they manage to overcome a come to america where they sought opportunity and other independent and

prospering. then carson is a great story. paul harvey used to do them on his radio program called the rest of the story. if you think you have a hard life, that may tell you about how they overcame. we are not just going to tell you the story. we'll tell you how they overcame. i go back and tell the story to 60 minutes, lesley stahl that this piece years ago in a harlem housing project in new york. my nerdy sci-fi minority. hard for unemployed people who've never had a child or they were only hamburger flippers working for minimum wage. he taught people how to dress for a job interview, how to shake hands from the stuff you and i would take for granted. these people had never been taught. they focus on african-american women into a job interview. she applied all the things she learned. she came out and listen to you is not because was trisha did, but because she got the job. she thought she had value.

nobody had told her this before. you're black, female, live in the ghetto. your life will be lousy. vote for democrats. that's the message so many dad. if we can have more inspiration and more people telling how they overcame, and i think we're going to inspire an awful lot of people. we don't tell stories anymore. postcode you think that's a dodge count that there's growing inequality in terms of income sinner need in our country, the realities, the harsh realities in the top 1% gave us now from the occupied movement at the top 1% has taken in a disproportionate share in increases in wealth in the last 10 years and the consequence has been a declining middle class can increase and people and property in them and hold up exceptional people and say this person did it, so you can do it,

too. it's fine. that runs counter to what we see is the larger structural issues. >> host: president obama and democrats have been talking about income inequality. i wrote a few weeks ago which i stated i had a deep, dark secret and hidden from public view for many years and was very embarrassing for me to go public with it. it is necessary for me to do so. i said i suffer from income inequality. there's always been people who've made my money tonight. it doesn't affect me. the fact you make $2 i make 1 dollar doesn't mean only 50 cents. and as i come to you to find out how you made it $2. income is fixed for everybody for life. there's only 11 bowl of food and i take more than you, that might be unfair because it might not be satisfying your hunger. if i give your recipe and i

sukkot to bring so you can make your own food, that's fair. the fact donald trump makes more than i do has nothing to do with my income level. i used to interview as a young reporter wealthy and successful people. i didn't end with i said where did she where did she go to school philosophy of life? that the attitude is if you make for them it's not fair so i drank it down. that doesn't build me up. are the poor people better off because of higher taxes? are they getting direct check if donald trump or ted turner pays more taxes. they're not improving their lives. for three years i got this government will first check in on ceo of my company. you never hear that. >> host: concede to you have a situation where the question is maximizing opportunity for all. when you look at the reality of the income distribution charts in a country now, they are spinning wildly out of proportion in terms of who is

steaming mouth and opportunity, even in terms of schools who scorn and the children that get to go there tend to be the children of the rich. the rich get more of our money. the big returns on wall street these days. it sounds as if you're being in different to people who are struggling to get themselves out of poverty and onto the latter for portability. >> host: i used to be poor. when i was in the army and a $99 a month and a circuit in new york city. we had no car. i took the subway. it was 10 cents. whenever to 15 since people screaming out about how the poor would afford this. it's over $2 now. but i never envied people. i said i can improve my life. i will keep working on it. i was 37 or salt making $25,000 a year and still struggling, taking public transportation to work. we had one car. >> host: the way you are talking sounds like you're

celebrating virtue. even when someone is ripping off the system, you sick nor that. >> guest: rewind the tape. you will see that i said i didn't think aig and some of these other should have been built out with taxpayer money. they should've been allowed to fail. the people responsible for the recession should have paid the biggest price, not the investors and not the employees. if they didn't go to jail, they should have been forced to pay back some of the people they injured. >> host: if they have no money and not collapse the entire american economic system. if you go back to tape, i said that to you. accomack tha you don't focus on the idea of what we as an american to try to correct some of the flaws in the least we live. set your position in the position in the book is correct

and human mistakes is a game. you're not going to do it. >> host: one, government did not force me to stay married to my wife, to be an example to my children, to have honesty and integrity in my professional life. those are moral and spiritual issues that come from another place. government can impose certain penalties if i break certain laws and they can't force me to be moral and virtuous. not that i am. let me use this analogy. there is a catholic pilot named bishop fulton sheen years ago who stood up at the 1979 national prayer breakfast in washington and asked a question. how do we define a football field? bias boundaries, we set greatly exceeded our boundaries morally, relationally, economically and we wonder why we have these problems. huge numbers of incurable, so

many babies born out of wedlock and among the minority of americans over 80% of black rabies in new york were aborted. jesse jackson is to say this is the white man's answer to the welfare problem. >> host: that's not true. 80% of the abortions in new york city are among minority children. lax, hispanics, asians. you should also know 70% of the population is minority. >> host: we are cheapening adult levels. if you do something like hillary claire, now obama cared for mr. peel and talked about death panels and was widely ridiculed. but this is what is happening in britain. >> host: i'm about to make a point here. there's a chapter in my book cause fewer versus care this may surprise you. i am all for government, spending more money to find

cures. if we can find a cure to alzheimer's disease, which is a huge affliction to the baby boomers as they retire, you're going to save a whole lot of money from having to treat people with alzheimer's and so many other diseases. i'm for investing this much money possible and sinecure for these things. as i said about the nhs in great britain come you now see people on panels, call them whatever you like, denying people care and surgery because it costs too much or they are too old or not contributing enough. but i believe is what is coming here. the reason that comes here is because life has been cheapened up one level, the unborn and other challenges that the other level. the elderly, infirm, unwanted. >> host: one of the heroes you cite in your book is none other than john calvin thomas. so your story is for unix sample

of his virtue. explain. >> host: i was very fortunate. i.t. parents who stayed married. i have a brother who died a year and a half ago. he had down syndrome. at the time he was born in 1950, children like that are either institutionalized or not expected to live beyond their 20s. my parents said we are not going to do that. so he lived to be 60. that was an example of compassion that i carry with me to this day. my compassion is not just given a handout. it's a handout. i will not tell you other people i work with and things are done for people because that would sound self-serving. but you'd be surprised if a lot of the things i do for people monetarily, relationally and other things. the goal is always to help them improve their lives and become an attendant and functioning

individuals. not just to say there's a guy with the sign on the side of the road trip i'll give him a few bucks a tax-free money so he can do whatever he wants with it. he stopped and rolled on the window and say sass will work for food. too many people stop inside i've got a job. what to cut my lawn? know, easier to get the money to do the rest. i think we've redefined compassion in my story, why was fortunate to grow up in a two parent home, i worked very hard. when i flunked out of college my first year, my father called me and said i'm happy to support you all these years, but if you go back and they've got to pay your own way. when i paid my own way i got serious and the grace and not because it was my money i was spending. today's attitude would be he flunked out of college. let's send him a check. that taught me a great blessing. failure is a wonderful thing. if you learn from it. if you accept the idea of

victimhood, one of the quotes from her boss at fox news who spoke a couple years ago said if you think of yourself as a victim camilla was the victim. if you think of yourself as a success, eventually you will be one. i love that attitude. >> host: in your story, you talk about having been turned down by many newspapers as you desire to write a column. here comes one editor who says that given a chance. but i can tell the story? >> guest: i met tom johnson on the johnson administration in a copy boy in received and signed him to be a very engaging and an annotated find the same in me. years later i wrote a column. i wrote this book called the warning, censorship from the left. so i wrote a column about it and send them off to what i thought would be the least likely

newspaper did not come at "the new york times" "new york times" annapurna. so appeared a historical document. i wrote another in the "washington post" for that that appeared in "the l.a. times," "usa today." so i contacted all the syndicates. my background was recasting the mail turned me down. thomas publisher of "the l.a. times" and i called him up and said i think there's a dearth of conservative commentary, particularly social issues that get attention even within economics. you may be right. let me know and i'll set you up with her syndicate people separate from us. they make the rounds. they miraculously i was offered me a chance to do two columns a week ending april will be 30 years and one time i don't know where it is now, but as a monk if not the top syndicated columnist in america. they never took rejection is the final word.

there's an old song that barbara cook sings among others is not restart. three finish. >> host: you mentioned it "what works" that johnson is a liberal. >> guest: he's a liberal democrat committed to diversity and pluralism. i dedicated the book because he opened the door for me. my life changed because it then. i had dinner recently in atlanta, he and his wife. they are great people. this is what's happening. nobody knows anybody anymore, in washington especially. we are all labeled liberal conservative. we are all parts of group. african-americans, latino, sumrall identified by labels and nobody gets to know each other. i know about his family life, his kid, desires, frustrations and he knows about nine because we look beyond the labels.

there's a lot of money and political power and keeping us to friday. solutions to problems hurts from racing. how come you never send out a positive letter of what you do with people's donations. he can't raise money on a positive. how cynical is that and how divisive this? we are no longer the united states of america. we are the divided states of groups and that is what is really harming us in any levels. >> host: this book is in fact directed at one of those audiences which is the heart rate. >> guest: i have many liberal friends who are authors and columnists. i pay attention to what they are saying. in the book i grant -- i say that the liberal idea, living up to its established reason for being, its charter, its authorized legislation, i am for you. it is promoting the general welfare, i am for it.

government is not evil. it is good if it functions in its boundaries. they've exceeded those boundaries and that's what government is dysfunctional. >> host: when i say the book is targeted niche argument, the fragment in america you lament, you've got a ford or sean hannity. you quote about extensively. you know mark levin is the big talk radio. these are people citing the book and there are no liberal ideas, including social security that you like or medicare. they are not cited here. >> guest: this is a counter argument to the problem we are facing. if i thought government was working well, functioning well, if i thought the 10th amendment was put under, all rights not specifically delegated to the federal government appears there for the state and the people, if i believed that it wouldn't have even written a book. so this is a counterargument to what the left is saying about

government is the solution to our problems. john stossel's excellent show as a libertarian and goes for i would did he deconstructs government programs and the attitude that people turned government first is like a religious cult that no matter the proof, the belief is incorrect, physical proof, people continue to believe in it. government has replaced god. now return to government and they wonder why it's not working. >> host: you say liberals are the ones who turned to government. and you hear obama saying we have to do more in terms of building a family and individual responsibilities. >> host: i'm all for that. talk is cheap. >> host: the niche arguments is the conservative hard right, the evangelical audience.

>> guest: i would see myself as hard right. recent labels here. one of my favorite writers of all time is frank rich about brilliant columns for "the new york times." did i agree with everything? of course not. that doesn't mean his skills and ability. he's one of my favorite columnists of all time. i like to say every two things every day. my bible and "the new york times" so i know what each side is doing. i'm friendly. i've got friends on all sides. but this is a counterargument. it's like medicine that doesn't taste good. you might not like it but it's good for you. read the book, understanding arguments. pick it apart, but give me the evidence of why it's wrong to tell me my three head start programs are producing what they should. tell me why over 40 different undersea programs in the federal government that overlap or counter one another. why do we have that quite spicy so much duplication, especially when none of them seemed to be working. that's why one another grace

commission to go through top to bottom. i don't care if it's liberal or conservative. one of the things i mentioned on the lecture circuit is let's take the absent education. this is big for the evangelical right. we'll teach kids they have to be virgins until they get married. that's a noble goal. however, the programs not working. if it's not working, get rid of it. >> host: that's not in the book. >> host: the finger is pointed at the liberals. >> guest: they are the party of government and they've been at it a lot longer. conservatives want government back within its boundaries. it's like a river. and its founders is, fishing, swimming, whatever. but when there's a flood, it destroys property and sometimes flies. >> host: malchow, when they think about solutions and tradition and traditional

america and looking to god in the evangelical sense is not directedness in every moment, almost predestination, the question becomes how discount on this think about the rising number of minorities in america and now we see more and are muslims in america. in the bucket doesn't seem to have a very welcoming attitude towards the community. >> host: this is a nation that began on the issue of. those who came from england are to worship. i'm all for that. i do think if you're going to be part of america raising a religious background, you have to be part of the pluralism. he can make your case and the public square are your belief system. but i don't think you can impose

all of it to government and that includes my point of view, my worldview, the christian worldview and everybody who doesn't agree with it. these things are one out in the marketplace. they start leaving dr. king, ralph abernathy, others who might today i have a true speech. i was a copy boy at change the ink in a lot of things regarding race because i didn't know any african-american people other than the naismith parents employed until i started playing basketball. i didn't know anyone as a fellow human beings. so i think i'm all for muslims in this country is. , christians, unbelievers and the rest. there's a great fear among radical islam that there were certain people who want to infiltrate us and undermine us. i think we saw that in and 9/11 these guys came in, took the training of florida and other places on how to fly airplanes.

they were given the same lessons anybody else would be given. we have to be careful and clearly the radical islamists come out of a background top by their god wants people who don't believe what they want to. i'm all for people having complete freedom who don't agree with my religious or political view. i found increasingly a lot of the extremists within the religion don't and they have a responsibility and isolate people who feel that way. >> host: what comes through in the book is this kind of discouraged view about what islam, especially muslims in america are up to. the question is how would you do with this? disc of the government has the primary responsibility and from what we know they are doing with it. they are modifying the radical mosques. tony blair tried to deport those who are preaching hate from some of the mosque.

the insurrection who wanted to bring down the government. he tried to deport them, disconnect it with some of the extremists who went out and killed people. you had the subway bombing in britain 77. but he was constrained by their version of the aclu and it came to the point where he was unable to deport any of them. we want everybody to come to america under the law in an orderly fashion, but we used to people of the irish, the polls, the the germans, others who came and assimilated. they loved america. they love their history. now we all hyphenated americans. one of my favorite lines, maybe the only line that i not african-american. i'm an american. yes, she gets it. that's exactly right. we are all parts of subgroups and i think that's the kind of thing harming our country.

>> host: when it comes to the civil rights movement in terms of the distinction between dr. king and dr. abernathy versus jesse jackson and al din, the different areas. we do acknowledge that if you go back to the founders would race slavery in the constitution, if you look up most of the history of the country where legal segregation was the law, you say that's wrong, the change was needed. in most other areas, to embrace change and you don't embrace the idea of us working as a community to improve the quality of all of our lives. >> host: that they touch on one thing he said about the founders. not all of them owned slaves and not all of them work for slavery. like mr. lincoln said almost 100 years later, if it required preserving slavery to save the union, he was in favor of preserving slavery. if emancipation with preserve,

humid before emancipation. the founders from studying history were at a moment and this wasn't the only issue. the power of the states. i'm just saying. >> host: dr. king referred -- so did lincoln come referred back to founding documents. particular the greatest stories ever written about human freedom. all men are created equal and endowed by their creator. they understood the rights in order to be protected from government had to be put aside the reach of government. dr. king appealed to that unlike an appeal to that. >> host: i'm not discussing that. what talking about is in this book in terms of commonsense solution that predate. so does a very and so does oppression of women. >> host: >> guest: we could go on for

an hour about that. solarize, moral issues primarily. yes, linda johnson to his everlasting credit for voting rights in up in housing help force that particular part of the country. i'm not just the south. you had race right there, too. into an attitude and that the pictures on television and i was working for nbc and as with reporters, including a guy named charles claimed or what with the freedom riders, came back, told stories, put them on the air that helps you the conscience of the american people that this is not just wrong legally. this is wrong morally. black people were entitled to the same rights for lunch counters, restrooms, jobs, housing, whatever it is. not because the government is going to give it to them or should that because they enjoyed the same and analytical rights

to separate a human being. >> host: you understand government had to enforce treatment. not for segregation. government was an important instrument. >> guest: it was. i don't want to be misunderstood here. not throwing the baby out with the bathwater. government needs to be straight with the theologians call sinful vote will not be constrained by a higher power. that is the purpose of government. government is a biblically established institution, but it has its limitations. the founders wanted government to be restrained so people would be unlimited. that's where the preamble starts with the people, not to the government. >> host: cal thomas, thank you for coming. the new book is called "what works: common sense solutions for a stronger america." you'll notice on the cover cal has a groundhog over his left shoulder. that is because he thinks we keep ignoring the commonsense solutions that our forefathers have given.

>> host: repeated the same thing every day like a movie groundhog day. that's right. >> host: at the next coming duke university professor dan ariely sat down to talk about his book, "the (honest) truth about