with something that's very relatable to their needs is important. they want to know minute that's been successful -- somebody that's been successful that's like them. it's somebody that they will believe. their trust is what am i going to get out of what you have to say. tell he it is, relates to me, something i already know, something that i believe and something visual. because visual is the way they like to operate. they also don't like to be told from authorities, they prefer to be something that through peers. so giving them a feeling that something has been successful for a peer that's short and to the point is probably a message that would work better for them than others. so this is the group, as i said, that rates their diet as least healthful of all generations. so they do recognize that they have some challenges. and just looking at some of those messages that i said that

will resonate with this group, testing the messages that we had with tested and found to be successful with young participants, these are the ones -- parents, these are the ones that actually resonated with them. and also they added some ideas about what they felt would help. clarity. they don't want things that are, the messages are unclear. they want specifics, and they want clarity. they wanted something applicable to their own lives and something that they find motivational. they want something that is very positive. they don't want to be told don't do, don't do, don't do, because i think that's an environment they grew up in. they want a goal that they can achieve, and they want it to be short ask to the point. and i don't think this is just millennials, i think we're all going there. i think that's the way we communicate in general. so the two messages that we found to be the most successful about helping them to eat healthfully is fun stuff counts. they like it short, they like

encouragement, and they liked the fact that they could go from there to find out more information. they don't want it all laid out, they don't want you telling them everything, they want you to say if you want to know more, go here. so you engage them to find out more information rather than telling them exactly what it is. and they also like the fact that take charge of your weight gives them feeling that they can do something, it's encouraging that they can do something that will help them. they like some cognitive participation, something that makes them think and makes them realize that they are in charge. so some of the, i think, the notable quotes that we got from some of these people in our focus group, i think, were very nice. there's always an angle, there's always someone trying to sell something. nothing is ever purely unbiased. i think that when we really don't understand that they are surrounded by so many messages

that they recognize that all these messages have some kind of point to sell something. and so they have a hard time sifting through which ones are the ones that are really there to help them and which ones are there, are the ones that have more value. i think when looking at the hi plate program -- my plate program, we were pretty shocked. when looking at it. this is when i heard as somebody in baltimore say, i guess i would trust it. it's a government source, but it just sounds really boring to me. i just wouldn't be interested in hearing it if that's what they had to say. i'd rather stick to things like something that's really going to catch my attention more. and i think that's the challenge. i think we need to catch their attention, engage them cognitively so that they feel like they have some control and that if we address some of their challenges as far as time and money, that they are challenged with.

[applause] >> great. hi, everybody. i'm kate wyatt with edelman. thank you for allowing me to be here today, and thank you to the panel for sharing some really great insights. i hope i can add some interesting layers to what we've already heard here. based on some information that edelman has gathered. primarily, what you'll hear today is data and insights that we've gathered through our 8095 projects, so named -- as kathy mentioned -- for the millennials born between 80 and 95. but also it's more of a snapshot of attitudes and behaviors that we have gathered from studying this group for quite a few years. and i think it's, you know, supported by what we've heard today. and as i think one key takeaway

as my title suggested that really what we've found that millennials aren't a sort of monolithic block. they are really what we call kind of a tribe of individuals, so i think you'll see that supported in what i share today. so before i dive in, i thought i'd do a fun exercise with some hi eleven y'alls that i work with -- some millennials that i work with. the edelman group that i work with is made up mostly of millennials, and hundreds of them work in our office and, obviously to, the network of edelman people. i asked them, what's your food philosophy? and i think, you know, the answers that you see here are kind of funny, but i think absolutely representative of the dichotomy that we see in this group and that the panel has talked about today, i'm just laughing at some of, some of the ones, you know, they try to eat healthy. i eat healthy, i eat organic except on the days i work out, it's all cheeseburgers and pizza, you know? [laughter] i was a vegan because i thought

it sounded cool, so this is literally, these were just sent to me last night among real millennials out there in the world. so i thought that was kind of interesting. so we've heard a lot of this today, so i'll quickly move through this. but, you know, why they mattered, they're the largest generation. an interesting stat, in just ten years, they'll make up 75% of our work force, so if you don't already work with a millennial, you will. we at edelman sort of refer to them as alpha influencers because they are absolutely influencing their parents' and their peers' purchasing decision. 74% said they believe they influence the purchasing decision of people around them. and like any generation, you know, before and after them they are unique. but what makes this generation unique, i think paul and harry spoke to this a little bit, but,

you know, they've come of age during pretty tough, troubling times. they're an incredibly diverse generation, in fact, our most diverse generation. and really what i think is a mix of traditional and than traditional values -- and nontraditional values really mean that they're a new kind of consumer. so beyond statistics and what we found in our studies, this is, again, years of studying them, counseling clients on how to reach and resonate with millennials. we've sort of defined them, you know, in a lot of ways. but they're smart, they're curious, they're social, flexible, moral, head nistic -- hedonistic, they're value-centric which makes them debt averse, certainly supported by what i think we've heard today. they really value community, they have a very deep sense of framily, so this idea of friends and family. and, yes, we've heard some of it

today, they face a lot of challenges. some that ististics that i'll -- statistics that i'll share, the average millennial has over $28,000 in student loan debt. unemployment rates for this age group or this generation is double, nearly double the national average. the median net worth of my eleven y'alls between 2005 -- millennials between 2005 and 2010 fell 37%, so it's no joke that they are facing tough economic times. surprisingly, though, they remain really optimistic. and as i said, surprisingly traditional values. in fact, when we asked them in the 80-95 study specifically what their most important life goals are, it's a little hard to read, but the top three answers are having a job, owning a home, getting married and starting a family. really traditional values. but as i think we've all indicated here, it's more traditionalist with a twist, if you will. they want a job that matches their personal passion.

they want their role at their job to be individualized. i think that was supported, you know, by some of what marsha just shared which they really want individual attention. they define a career as a collection of experiences adding to my personal value. versus something i think as maybe some of older generations would define as security or longevity. and as they think, we started with paul mentioning they do want to get married and start a family. they're pushing back those decisions. a lot of times they're committing by cohabitating. we're sort of seeing this trend of mortgages replacing the role of marriage license in some cases. and i think this die cot hawaii that we've seen -- dichotomy that we've seen really translates to what their hope is the and fears are. they want to settle down without settling. they want to make a difference in the world, but they want it

to be theirs. they have a fear of having an average life. they worry about money, no surprise. they worry about not having enough, losing it, their parents going broke, and they really can't stand the thought of being alone. in fact, that fear of being alone traction lates to their shopping -- translates to their shopping patterns. so as marsha just mentioned, they're really social, and in our study we found that 63% of them view shopping as a social activity. so, you know, as we're here today to talk about how they shape the food systems, consider that statistic for a second. 63% of millennials are going to the grocery store, for instance, with a friend or their family. we've said that they're alpha influencers, so they are absolutely influencing the decisions that are being made at the grocery store. and because often times they won't even make a decision without the approval of their friends or family, this is all coming, you know, into play when

they are shopping. so what are they buying when they're shopping? believe it or not, they're actually pretty sensible. our survey showed that millennials willing to pay a premium, they're not just purchased, but willing to pay a premium for. health related goods and services fall at the top of that list, 81% would be willing to pay a premium for health-related items followed closely by electronics, and then food and dining falls in there at 73%. so 73% saying that they would be willing to pay a premium for food and dining. maybe what we saw earlier. they don't necessarily have the funds to do that, but they'd be willing to pay a premium for it. so their attitudes about health and wellness and food and dining, i think that 73% statistic illustrates that there and that we've heard here today a really well educated group. they're very sophisticated in their views on food.

but again, we hear some of that contrast come through. they want to look good, they want to feel good. they're concerned not only with how they feel, but how they look and their appearance. they want to indulge. so we saw the quote at the beginning about, you know, i eat mostly organic and healthy until i have pizzas and cheeseburgers because i've worked out really hard. so they want to indulge. they just want it done their way. they want the control, which i think we've heard today. we see them really as enthusiastic foodies. they absolutely see food as a badge of their values and sort of a cool factor. so all that said, kathy alluded to this when she introduced me, but, you know, why do millennials really matter? and i think what's interesting is they aren't kids anymore. they're parents, they have careers, they're growing up. and so their the here and now --

they're the here and now consumer, but who is the consumer of tomorrow? edelman has actually been looking at this next generation, so generation z, generation we. i don't know that we've landed necessarily on a name for them, but it, to me, is fascinating how much this generation of teens and tweens differ from millennials and how their attitudes and perceptions will shape the food system in really profoundly different ways. so i thought it'd just be fun to spend a few minutes going through gen-z. so quickly, why they matter, you know, maybe not as big as millennials, but they are estimated to be nearly 90 million strong by the year 2030. they're also highly influential. interesting to point out, they are, exist in really family-centric households, so they are absolutely influenced by and influencing parents, friends, grand parents, the communities in which they live. and like any generation, they're

unique. but i think what makes them particularly unique is that they are the first-ever kind of truly global generation. you see a stat there, for the first time in history more people are living in cities and suburbs than rugger areas, so -- rural areas, so that is going to impact how they view world. and as i said, what makes them most unique is how much their attitudes and values differ from millennials. so as i said, we've spent a lot of time looking into this, and i hope to do more quantitative study of generation z. but what we've found is, you know, what we kind of call the i can change the world generation. you know, like millennials, they're not only tech-savvy, they're tech intuitive. so not only have they not known a world without computers and the internet and mobile phones and smartphones, i mean, they haven't had to. it is all that they know. they are aware, they're

influential, they're reckless, they're unbounded, they're fiercely individualistic, maybe even more so than millennials. social, smart, curious, socially conscious, extreme multiit is taskers. marsha alluded to that, but this is, you know, the generation that -- i've heard this woman put it this way, that, you know, they're doing their homework with their, you know, ipod earphones on, music playing, tv on in the background sitting in the kitchen as mom is making dinner, and they're totally focused on their homework, and they're getting it done, but it's just a completely different world certainly than the one i grew up in where i wouldn't be able to concentrate with all those distractions. but these are really multitaskers. as i said, they're being influenced and are influencing in equal proportion. i love this, they skitter, haul, mod and hack, and if anyone in this room knows what that means, you either have a kid that age,

or i'm super impressed that you're that cool. so what are this generation's hopes and fears? again, these are teens and tweens, so i think knowing that is reflected into their hopes and fears. i think what is interesting here is you can really see that social consciousness come through. they want to understand their role in the large e world -- larger world. they want to make a difference. they want to be asked for their opinion, and they appreciate being able to share it. issues that matter to them and their peers matter, and they want to raise awareness about those issues. they want to experience new things and explore and discover, but they want to do it in the comfort and familiarity of the things that they know. what worries them, amazingly they worry about not feeling a part of something bigger, not understanding that they're a part of something bigger. they want to be heard, they want to be taken seriously. they don't want to wait to adulthood to realize their dreams. and i think if you're even a casual consumer of news these days, you can recall a story

that you read or a piece that you saw on a 14-year-old entrepreneur. so i think that waiting til adulthood to realize dreams is a fear of something we see. one i'll call out here is scare tactics don't work on gen-zs. so extreme or frightening messaging isn't going to resonate. i think marsha alluded to this, but positive messaging works. and i think, you know, given the times and the uncertainty that they've grown up in, keep in mind these are kids that school shootings and violence at school has become quite common place which is incredibly sad, but certainly shaping sort of who they are and what they hope and fear. so how do they differ specifically from millennials? when we compared millennials at the same age much like i think marsha may have talked about this, so millennials at age 8-17

in 1997 versus gen-z at the same age in 2007, they were more optimistic that they'd be better off than their parents, they're less likely to think it's cool to be smart, and i would argue that they would probably answer that it's cool to be kind. they're more likely to day dream about running their own business, helping others, traveling around the globe, being a great artist, musician, writer. so this individualistic expression of creativity is something that's really important to this generation. and they're far more influenced by their parents than hi eleven y'alls and -- millennials and, certainly, i think millennials more care about the influence of their friends. all that to say, i think this is an indication of a really shifting mindset when we're talking about the consumer here and now, millennials, but then the consumer of tomorrow with gen-z. so that was a lot of stuff. my e-mail is there if you have questions or need more information, i'd be happy to provide it. thanks.

ms. . [applause] >> well, thank you to all our panelists. some great insightings. we have a few minutes for questions from the room. christopher, i believe, will be walking around with the microphone, and we already have our first taker, so fantastic. >> dan mccurry, chicago consumer coalition. i know this has been a discussion about a particular age group, but we've also talked about sex, geographic location, health status philosophy and other parts. not one speaker has spent much time breaking this down into income distribution, the rich versus the poor. who can afford to eat what and who cannot? why is that? >> it's a great question. and, yeah, researched a lot of these kinds of things.

we have -- [inaudible] throughout society. you can see it's very dramatic in this generation. and we put out a report two months ago with a little bit of a counterintuitive title called the rising costs of -- [inaudible] we know the costs of going to college. one of the reasons why this generationing is having such a tough time getting started. they're much more likely to having student loan debt. about a third of the -- we looked at 25-32 or 3-year-olds. so presumably at that stage they're beyond their form formal education, they're in the work force. and the divide between those who had gone to college and had not gone to college is quite dramatic. first of all -- [inaudible] about 33%, higher than any other generation in history. they are stuck, however, two-thirds of them with student loan debt and student loan debt

that averages about $28,000. so it's a very hard way to get started in life when you have that albatross over your neck. but you compared their economic circumstances with the economic circumstances of the 60 or 65% who haven't gone to college, and you see a much bigger gap than you saw 20 or 30 years ago. so you're really in trouble if you in a knowledge-based economy if you haven't gone -- [inaudible] so, for example, the unemployment rate of 25-33-year-olds for college graduates is actually not that bad, it's 3.8%. before those in that same age group who had not gone on to college, 12%. the jobs aren't out there for them, and the world has collapsed for them, and you see that in their incomes, you see that in their wealth, you see that in their debt. so it's a very good question, and the economic divide within this generation is quite large. >> well, can i take it? i would answer the question this way, because you didn't ask me.

[laughter] had you asked me what's the difference between those two, i would have been more than happy to do it. it was you have 12 minutes, harry, talk about millennials. talk about how people eat in this country is not an easy answer, but the question is often asked. there are the upper income millennials behaving different than the lower income, and there's no question. we may have the same aspirations, the same wants, the same desires, but the money is just a different factor in what you're going to do. had you asked me the question, i would have attempted to answer. >> hi. my name is rihanna, and i work for a wellness-focused nonprofit in new york city, and i used to work for new york city council on food policy. and my question is on a panel about how millennials are shaping our food system, there's a shocking lack of millennials

on this panel, and i don't think -- [laughter] today we could get away with having a conversation about women's issues or african-american issues without having a single one of those people on the panel. and as someone who i feel is very engaged and does eat well, i found some of these comments a little, maybe a little insulting. so i guess i'm curious how we can engage millennials in a thoughtful way and really bring them to forums like this, because there are, you know, it wasn't just baby boomers just decided to eat differently. this has really been a push of young parents, young people, young farmers' associations. so i guess my question is how can we engage them more in a meaningful way and bring them maybe to this panel to actually talk about their own experience? >> again, invite them. of. [laughter] it's not my fault that they're not here. i'd be -- and, again, if you had 30 years of experience watching how people eat, invite them.

they should be here. clearly, we have people in our organization who are millennials who work with here, who are studying how people eat. just invite them. it's not a very difficult thing to do. invite them. >> i would add, too -- thanks. you know, certainly the 80-95 projects at edelman is what we call sort of a living, breathing focus group of a group of millennial, so we are tapping that community for insights and information on behalf of clients, on behalf of general knowledge all the time. so they are actually, you know, all the stuff that i shared we gathered from millennials as i mentioned too, you know, 42 the 00 employees -- 4200 employees i think edelman has across world, i would venture to say at least half if not more millennials, so i think they're informing all of what certainly in my role and what we do, you know, on a daily basis, and i think it was, you know, reflected in the research that we've seen and shared. >> and the last comment is that

we, i did report on the focus groups that we did with the millennials, so it was a reflection of what they were saying. >> caroline smith, dewalt director of food safety for cspi. i'm wondering if you -- i'm interested that i didn't want hear much on the issues of local, natural, organic. and farmers' markets. in this generation have you tested the issue of how many of them every two weeks are shopping at farmers' markets or eating organic or natural? i'm just interested what, whether they're part of the driver in that direction. thank you. >> again, i'll start us off on this. is this working or not working? let's try that. i see that guy coming up saying -- [laughter] we watch everything that all

people eat. again, it was time constraint. i could have gone op for two -- gone on for two hours, to be honest with you, and i was glad i stopped within 13 minutes. but no question about it, this generation, the millennials are going to define the future of eating in this country. when i was that boomer, i also was defining the -- i was looking for how to avoid harmful substances to my diet. and that was the driving force in the '80s. matter of fact, if you look at the nutrition facts label, really about things you should avoid because that's what the discussion was. this generation is coming to it what should i add to my diet. so they're talking about whole wheat, antioxidants, dietary fiber, things that you add to make your diet better. clearly on the organic, had a wonderful run, organic where we had 13% of the u.s. population consuming an organic item at least once in a two week period in 2003. by 2006 that number had doubled to 26 president.

in a three-year period, you don't have anything move that fast. but since 2006 it's still about a quarter of the population. big number, important, can you afford to have organic? and, again, money comes to this, this issue comes up more and more often. natural, do i want natural? no question about it. i'm not sure i know what natural is. matter of fact, if i define, ask you, did you have a natural product, it's almost everything is natural. i would say to you the millennials 18-34-year-old group is going to define for their parents and for the next generation what we're going to talk about until a new generation comes on and does the same. no different than the baby boomers. >> anybody else? >> hi, i'm jessica alm, i'm also at cspi in the nutrition d.. i'm wondering if any of your research or experience sheds light on whether millennials are more likely to make impulse purchases in the supermarket in

their food choices, and if so, how that affects their health. >> again, i'll start. i don't really know shopping habits. i know consumption habits. i know in most snacks in this country, they're not impulse purchases, they are sitting in your house. consumed 24 hours after you purchased them. so impulse is still a very small thing. sure, you see things, but most of your diet is more planned that be you think it is. been than you think it is. but i really don't know about the impulse shopping. >> from the focus groups that we did, as i said, one of the skills that they had admitted that they don't have really is planning. and so when they do go to the supermarket, frequently it is to fill a recipe and for a specific event rather than as a long-term what do i need to have in my

cupboard for the entire month or week. so i think those are skills that i think we could help them with, but i do think that some of it is impulse when they walk down the supermarket aisle they might pick out things that might not be as affordable and as beneficial to them for the long-term period. >> yeah. the one thing i can say on that is that they are somewhat risk averse in their consumer behavior. part of it is they don't have the money to take risks, so be you look at the share of cars sold to 18-34-year-olds today versus a generation or two ago, sales of cars to this generation has gone back. if you read the reports from the financial agencies, the fidelities about how young adults handle their 401(k)s, they tend to be conservative in their investing habits. they're not taking on a lot of debt in part because they've started with a lot of student loan debt, and ask they have a a -- and they have a rather risk

of a averse view. that's not hi area of expertise, but maybe that gives a sense of their behaviors. >> let me add one more to this that came to my mind. we go into 2,000 households every two or three years, that's what we're looking for, pantry, food stuffs that you have in your house. we're about to launch the 2014 we'll start another one of those three years, but up through 2011 one thing you were noticing about the american population is we're less likely to have things in our house. the pantry is being deloaded. we're buying as needed. i'm not sure that's impulse, but the pantry is being slunk in the -- shrunk in the american household today and, again, i believe this is the new generation. you don't need six cans of soup in the house. just get the three that you want or the five bottles of salad dressing, just get the two that you're going to consume. i think that a's changing too. >> one more question.

>> yes. i'm jerry hag strom from the hag strom report. go back to a couple of the things you've already raised. in addition to the question of income inequality, you talked about this generation being diverse, but you didn't say anything about differences among whites, blacks, hispanics, also differences between men and women. and secondly, on the question about organic, walmart recently announced that they're going to try to have organic products more cheaply. do you think that is the major issue, people really want organics, but they can't afford them? >> let me take a crack at the demographic diversity. it's a fascinating story, and it really is a story of the future of america. so as i mentioned, this generation is about 43% non-white. it's not so much that the black share of the population, if you

go back 50, 60, 70 years, we were mostly a black -- a white country with a minority black population. the black population share hasn't changed much. what has changed in the last 50 years has been a huge immigration wave. it's the third great immigration wave in our history. the first two were late 19th and early 20th century, and they were nine and ten european. this wave, which in absolute numbers has brought more immigrants than the first two combined, this wave is half from latin network and now about three in ten from asia, although in the last three years the asian immigrants have passed hispanic immigrants. in the last 40 or 50 years since we opened our doors in 1965. and what you see in my eleven y'all generation is actually the children of this wave. most of them are the u.s.-born children of this immigrant wave, and they are the future. and the immigration is likely to continue. immigrants tend to have a lot of kids because they are strivers,

they believe in the future. and so we are going from a kind of white and plaque checkerboard which are most of our history to much more of a rainbow. to summarize very briefly, the minority groups, all of them whether black, hispanic or asian, at least in the last couple of elections have voted very demographic. if you rook at their -- look at their social and political values, they skew more liberal although many immigrants have traditional family values, traditional work ethic values. but there is a belief in the importance of government. the last question was about men versus well. listen, there are gender differences in this, on political and social attitudes and economics circumstances in this generation that are very similar to the gender differences among all generations. and to summarize it very briefly, women tend to be more liberal and. >> many ways more empathetic than men. and this generation of women, last point i'll make, guys, is that this generation of women,

you know, six in ten undergraduates these days are women, nearly six in ten, 58%. if you look on into graduate school and beyond, this generation of women is starting in the work force better prepared economically than their male counterparts. and indeed, it's the starting line. that wage gap, which we read a lot about and has been a part of our economics, at the starting line this generation of women, the wage gap is much smaller. we did a report about this about a month ago. it's 93 cents to the dollar rather than 78 or 81 depending on how you measure. but we've also looked at how this generation and the next oldest generation progresses through their economic circumstances, and that gap which starts narrower widens back up. and it widens back up as women and men move into their late 20s and 30s, and it is likely that that has to do with starting a family, and that has to do with the differential experiences that men and women

have once they have to balance work and family. >> add one thing. we did a study last year called america's kitchens where we looked at husband and wives, moms and dads this the same household. so talk to mom for 20 minutes and literally had her hand the phone to dad so we could ask him the exact same questions. and what we found was maybe surprising, that moms and dads' values and food behaviors in particular, how they're feeding their families, what they think is important to feed their families actually didn't differ that much among gender, that moms and dadsed actually shared a lot of the same values and beliefs. i'd be happy to share that study, but i thought that was kind of interesting, and so i think -- and don't quote me on this, but i think that was also held true in that particular study among multicultural groups as well.

so just one piece to add. >> i don't even know where to begin with that question. there's so much research we could do on all those, where the differences are between all of us. let me answer the first one, organic and walmart. i have no doubt in my mind this country wants cheaper organic food. you give it to me, i'll buy it. i don't think there's -- this is, again, something the boomers started. we have data looking at about additives and preservatives in your food back in 1984. that's one of the top concerns this country had. we call it organic, we call it natural, the desire for this food that is naturally produced. it's just a matter of money in my mind, so i think it's a good idea. on the differences between -- name the group. i've been asked it. the difference between canadians and american, the difference between people who live in florida and people who don't live in florida, your mother, your father. i've done research on this. i'll answer it with this life lesson that i have learned, and i've tried to teach my children

from just watching how we all eat. if you want to find differences between groups, you can. you can find any difference -- you give me two groups, i'll find you the difference if that's what you want to know. but i can also guarantee you this, i will find more things that are alike than differences. and we tend to focus on our differences, and we forget we are more alike. trust me on this, i have the day to -- data to prove it. i try to teach my children this. >> thank you. and i think we'll end the session, so thank you very much for the panel. let's give them a hand. [applause] weaver now going to move to our panel breakout, so just a reminder, the empire ballroom is downstairs, stairs to the right, and congressional a and b are across the hall and to the right. thank you. [applause] [inaudible conversations]

[inaudible conversations] >> if you missed any of our coverage of this conference, it is available on our web site. go to c-span.org, check the c-span video library. some news from the associated press this morning, the supreme

court has upheld michigan's ban on using race as a factor in college admissions. the justices said in the 6-2 ruling today that michigan voters had the right to change their state constitution to prohibit public colleges and universities from taking account of race in admission decisions. the justices say that a lower federal court was wrong to set aside the change as discriminatory. vice president biden is in ukraine and announced the united states will provide an additional clash 50 million -- $50 million to help the government with political and economic reforms. the vice president is in a meeting in kiev meeting with ukrainian officials and leaders and said it's time for russia to stop talking and start acting to reduce tension in ukraine. president obama plans to visit a town today near seattle where a mudslide last month killed at least 41 people, dozens of homes were buried. we'll have live coverage of the president's visit starting at

6:50 eastern today on the c-span networks, actually, right here on c-span2. the president also heads to asia for a four-country trip that begins tomorrow in tokyo. he's expected to spend the rest of the week and part of next week conferring with leaders in japan, south malaysia and the philippines. and all this week while congress is on break, we're featuring booktv in prime time starting at eight eastern. tonight, stories from the white house beginning with diane jacobs on her book, "dear abigail." also joshua ziitz, author of "lin cob's -- lincoln's boys." and finally, robert clara, author of "the hidden white house." booktv in prime time tonight starting at eight eastern here on c-span2. >> what we're seeing right now where we're embedding

computational capabilities more and more into our lived environment. some technologists disagree on this, but i personally consider the smartphones that we all carry around with us or at least 70 percent of the american population carries around with us to be a trademark example of the internet of things. we are becoming human sensors because we're all carrying around an extremely powerful computer in our pocket, but it also takes the form of different sensors that exist in the physical world, the form of radio frequency identification leaders that we pass underneath when we access easy pass on the new jersey turnpike. it takes the form of weather sensors that are all around us. certainly, surveillance and cameras that collect data and then send that somewhere else. this is all part of the internet of things. it's basically the embedding of computers into our real world. >> on "after words," patrick tucker on a world that attempts your every move saturday night at 10 eastern and sunday night

at 9. and online our book club selection is bing west's "the wrong war." read the book and join in the discussion at booktv.org. and live sunday, may 4th, look for our next "in depth" guest, luis j. rodriguez. his work includes the award-winning book on gang life, "always running," and his 2011 release, "it calls you back." booktv every weekend on c-span2. >> the national transportation safety board held a forum on cruise ship safety at its headquarters here in washington. panelists included cruise line executives and safety and maritime experts. they reviewed recent high profile incidents examining ship design, fire protection and corporate oversight of cruise ships. this is about 90 minutes. >> welcome back. we will now proceed with our

fifth panel, and i know we're all looking forward to hearing from them. mr. larue. >> thank you, chairman hersman. as a reminder for our possiblists, you'll -- panelists, you'll need to push the button on the microphone, please bring it close to you and be sure to turn it off when you're finished speaking. our next panel will explore how cruise lines plan for emergencies, carry out evacuations and account for personnel following an emergency. as well as life saving systems found on cruise ships. our panelists are mr. ray -- [inaudible] executive vice president of fleet operations for princess cruises, dr. daniel pavel, deputy head of safety and risk, system engineering for -- [inaudible] mr. nils frande, director, passenger division, sales and engineering for viking life saving, and captain herman -- [inaudible] for royal caribbean

international. our first panelist is mr. ray kolori. >> thank you very much, chairman hersman, board members, thank you very much for the opportunity to present today. i think one of the lessons i've learned is that you never stop learning in this business. and having sat in the audience now for almost two days, i've learned an incredible amount. i'm at a slight disadvantage from a lot of the other panelists who have presented over the last two days because i don't have a marine or a technical background per se, but i have been in the cruise industry for 30 years having started 30 years ago with princess, seven years at sea. and what this does allow me to do with my team is ask those fundamental questions that sometimes are not asked by the subject matter experts which can certainly drive a lot of continuous improvement and change. my job today, and i've been asked to present on our emergency response center facility in santa clarita, the

components of response to a major incident are, indeed, myriad. and in addition to the functions of the emergency response center itself, there are, of course, many other response mentions which you see listed here. but as i said, we're going to focus on the emergency response itself. princess cruises' emergency response center or erc for short is a purpose-built response center fully equipped and ready to operate around the crock. around the clock. this dedicated center provides a base of operations for the key response teams supporting the ship and coordinates with the relevant external response and rescue agencies. this critical part of our overall emergency response is focused solely on the safety of those onboard and any impact on the environment. we very much believe in continuous improvement, and our current center is actually our

sixth iteration with each version having improved both in terms of ergonomic layout and the ability to better with display incident information. most recently, we have also added the capability to start the systems remotely so that the center is ready to operate as soon as the team walks through the door. we've also added the ability to be able to display the ship's vvr, and we're currently in the process of making it possible for the erc team to interrogate each ship's safety management and control system including the fire protection system. so, for example, we would be a able to see whether a sprinkler has deployed in a particular cabin from the erc. without doubt the most striking feature of the erc is the 21x9 foot video wall that is used to display incident information.

but i'll come back to that later specifically, if i may. the erc is staffed by a team of 12 trained responders who represent key operational functions and who communicate with the rest of the company. i want to emphasize here that the erc has a very focused mission; to support and advise the ship with the incident and to insure the safety of those onboard. it has no responsibility for the commercial impact of the incident. the senior management of the company are located in our boardroom two floors away from the erc and, in fact, i am not even allowed into the erc during an incident. we believe that it's very important that the responding team is absolutely under no commercial pressure whatsoever and is free to take response decisions purely on the basis of what is best for the ship and for the souls onboard.

one of the most important functions during an emergency is how we share information. we use virtual command center technology, it's walled web voc, i'm sure many of you are familiar with this tool. this tool enables us to see and use information simultaneously and allows for rapid dissemination. one of the reasons we're structured in the way we are is that it allows us to respond to both a major emergency and, indeed, a small event such as a group of passengers who may miss a ship due to late-arriving flights, all using the same system. we simply activate only the response modules needed for that spechg situation. and what this does, it does a long way in insuring user familiarity with the entire system. inside the erc the responding team is comprised of specialists in the various areas of emergency response. as you can see from this list, i won't go through it all, but the team is led by a team leader

supported by a range of disciplines, and on any one day this team could comprise -- and these are all on princess' staff -- a retired coast guard captain of the port, three or four master mariners, a chief engineer, a doctor, a registered nurse, a naval architect and several other qualified deck or engine officers. and, of course, onboard the emergency be response is managed by the captain from the bridge. looking at the facilities itself, the front video wall specifically, the video wall is totally flexible in terms of display. it can show multiple or a single image of almost any electronic data. in a normal operation, we would display about ten different inputs which are selected to be relevant to the incident and can be arranged in any location and size to give on the much claire -- on optimum clarity.

some of the items we've displaced to give you a few examples would be the status board. this gives up to the minute information on the discuss of the response to the incident and any casualty information. and this is shared with all the key response areas throughout the company and is can also be shared with outside agencies by providing them with a web link. the web voc ship event board, this shows the information entered by the web voc operator onboard the ship, and this is key because it's tracking the incident specifically from the ship's perspective. as i mentioned earlier, our virtual command center system, it links the ship, the erc and all parts. all operators enter their information where it is recorded and can be shared in realtime and then, of course, post-incident and post-drill, in fact, we can interrogate for

lessons learned. the team members -- objects such as photographs can be sent from the ship to the erc or, indeed, broadcasts made by the captain to the passengers and crew can be shared with the teams ashore. navigational charts for the area can be displayed, the ship's stability system is also visible. the ship is able to send updated visions to the erc where they can be aassessed. the erc can monitor the progress of the passenger mustering, and it can run reports in the same way as the ship. since the system is part of our access control system, it is also effective in port as it knows which passengers are ashore and, therefore, removes them from the mustering requirement. weather information and inputs

from the ship's web cams can also be displayed. ships' plans such as fire and damage stability plans are also available, and our ship tracking system -- which is called purple finder -- is often also displayed as it refreshes at very short intervals and gives accurate information on the ship's course and speed. during predeparture muster drills and in a real emergency muster, hand-held electronic scanners read each passenger's cruise card to keep track of who is on the ship and, indeed, who has reported to their muster station. so we can quickly identify any missing passengers. this electronic mustering system records all passengers into the system as they arrive at their muster station or evacuate the ship. so the shore side emergency response center can also track the progress of any emergency passenger movement.

one question that always comes up is how often do we conduct drills. we aim to hold a major drill with a ship in our 17-ship fleet at least once a quarter. in addition, we hold ongoing, individual and group training for erc team members, and since the ships use web eoc as part of their weekly crew drills, we can monitor their performance and conduct regular web eoc drills with them. so the quick answer is that the erc is used for some type of drill or training every week. another question that we field is what happens if all of the electronic systems fail? building redundancy into our systems both ashore and onboard is very important to us. that tends to have been a theme throughout this forum. and the erc is equipped in the case of a local emergency or power failure. our building has its own

emergency generator so we can be independent of the city's power. in addition, the erc has a 30 minute uninterruptible power supply so we can assure systems will will not be affected in the event of a city pour outage while the -- power outage while the emergency generators come online. the erc is, without doubt, a hub of activity directly related to a ship and the response to an incident. but shortly after the erc mobilizes, our customer response team also jumps into action to assist the customer service effort. we call in the passenger unit. this includes many departments comprising customer relations, logistics, air and hotel operations. each team has its own duties and procedures to best assist with any issues affecting passengers including providing hotel accommodations and revised air schedules as required. the primary team caring directly for passengers is the care team.

these specially-trained employees provide face to face be human service response to affected passengers and their families. human service response is a practical needs-based approach to helping people who have experienced trauma. this team provides what is needed starting with the basics; food, shelter and information to help someone who may not be at the time capable of self-care. the princess cruises' care team is comprised of more than 400 trained members, but we can also rely on the carnival corporation brands to borrow care personnel when our numbers aren't sufficient and/or when other brands' location is closer to the incident in question. for example, we have used pnluk's care team for incidents in europe as well as carnival cruise line's team for incidents in the caribbean. this team also has access to web eoc as well as other comprehensive emergency tools. e-care is used by ground trips

and our shipboard users to communicate new hotel and travel plans to our passengers and crew. e-care also speaks to our reservation system which is called polar. so if travel plans or passenger locations need to be changed, the systems connect. thanks to an air booking tool and hotel assigner, we have the ability to mass rebook air from an entire ship of passengers and crew and place them in hotels before their flights. this is very important to make sure that we can make passengers as comfortable as possible and get them home as quickly as possible. just as in the erc, this team conducts drills, meetings and exercises designed to keep all emergency response organization team members up to speed and comfortable with all of these tools and procedures at all times. overall, emergency response is a company-wide process to insure the best outcome for both passengers and crew in any situation. our emergency response center

and care teams are important tools to make sure that assistance is always ready to provide the best care to our passengers and crew. in conclusion, the safety of our passengers and crew is, indeed, our top priority. we believe we are prepared and equipped to manage an incident both in terms of the immediate response coordinated by the erc and the subsequent impact and follow up. we continually learn from incidents inside and outside the industry with a view to continuous improvement in emergency response. and finally, given the scale of the carnival corporation, we always have additional resources available to us through cross-brand collaboration. thank you very much. >> thank you very much for your presentation, mr. caluori. our next presenter is dr. daniel pavel from dngvl. doctor? >> thank you for the introduction. madam chair, board members, thank you for the opportunity to be on this panel.

>> dr. pavel, could you pull the microphone just a bit closer? >> yeah. >> thank you. >> okay, is that okay? my presentation will address evacuation preparedness of modern cruise vessels, and i will start with some definitions to the get some basis on the simulations i'll show later. first of all, we have, of course, evacuation routes assigned onboard our vessels. and every space or group of spaces has two, at least two means of escape, and there's a requirement on width of the escape and on lighting and signing. we have assembly stations for allocating and mustering all the persons onboard in an emergency,

these shall be in the vicinity of the -- [inaudible] deck. the embarkation station or the deck, that is a deck where the lifeboats or life rafts are boarded. for the evacuation, we have different phases and different rules regarding that. the evacuation, firstly, towards the assembly station, that is the first phase. then we will muster the passenger and crew on the assembly stations. for this we have a mandatory guideline for ro-pax vessels. this is not yet mandatory. we heard this morning and yesterday already on that. that's not mandatory for cruise vessels, but the imo is on the way to have that mandatory for all passenger vessels.

further on we have the embarkation process, that is a process from the assembly station into the lifeboat and life rafts including launching. for this we have maximum 30 minutes time. ..

yesterday, but now i may have a closer look. first of all, there's a travel time, that is a travel time to the assembly station. there's a safety factor for covering unknown things, safety factor for doing simulation of 1.25. and then we have a second component that embarkation launching, as i said before, less than 30 minutes. it is allowed to have an overlap

of both processes of one-third of the embarkation launching time. so 10 minutes. we have guidelines maximum time of 80 minutes embarkation time. so what are characteristics of the models? if you look on advanced method, we simulate each individual person on board and each person has its own reaction time walking speed and so on. the movement of these individuals are assimilated and recorded so you can check and assess the results in detail. the guideline is us a set of 50

simulations to get a variation of the results. normally we run more than 50 just to get better base of the results. i will show an example of the software, just an example, some other software on the market, but all has the same basics. so as i said, the individuals are simulated, with discrete space and time. freely definable routes for these people according to the escape lamb of the vessel. the software tools have to be

rtified due to the process even in the guidelines. this video is showing us how this software gives -- no. could you please click on the video. okay. it shows the reality that the video has now skipped over and show how the assimilation is doing it on the screen. this is the intermediate step but at the end the people are defined by dots, and you can follow every single person. perhaps we can run that another time because it's a really thick at the end. just press -- no. just press again on the picture.

okay. so this shows that each individual person is simulated and if you think on a cruise also with 8000 people, that's massive data and missile be assessed afterwards. -- this will be assessed afterwards. on this slide, i have an example, on the top right of the diagram shows the result of 500 simulations for one vessel. you can see the distribution of the result, and as defined in the guidelines, a significant duration is the duration which is 95% of all the simulations. further on we get information

from pictures from one deck and then you can see that there are areas where people will be during the evacuation and have a congestion. this is not showing individual people. it's showing areas where people are located during the evacuation. in this case, 10% that is the criteria from the guidelines, 10% of the total evacuation time, there's a person in the red area here and if you do that in the design space of vessels, you can change things, but you can also see if you have an existing vessel it is hard to change design things. you can, of course, change the

operation of things or perhaps routes, but that's also not easy. finally, i would like to say a little bit on the further imo development. as we heard already yesterday and this morning, there is a process going on after the incident that these evacuation simulations should be mandatory for all passenger ships and not only -- will most probably, probably be assigned within the next, some of the next imo sessions. of course, as the discussions how to differentiate the needs for new vessels and for existing vessels, there is a need to defer between both parts because

of the sent items. further on, there's a need to distinguish different types of passenger vessels because there are some vessels that are specific. i have a list of some specifics for cruise specificity on this slide, and main idea is that we have a crew us and we station which is more or less on all vessels. a different a semi-stations and tested simply stations. we're rooting of the cruise. the higher number of cruise members, and we should consider counter flow and crossing flows due to the two different clothes, passenger and crew, and we may think on the

consideration of both deck areas this is at the moment not considered for taxi ferries. thank you again to be in this panel. >> thank you, doctor prevailed to our next presenter, mr. niels fraende. >> chairman and board members as well stakeholders of the industry. thank you very much for the opportunity to represent the life-saving manufacturers on this forum. my position at viking, passenger division, i'm over all responsible for our development programs on new systems and new rescue means from passenger vessels and then also the engineering part of existing

systems and the overall contacted industries different stakeholders. in connection with marine evacuation systems, we as a manufacture are very much aware of this, in an incident that leads to a loss of a ship might be the last resource for people to get to safe haven and out of harm's way and, therefore, it is important that equipment like this works under all conditions. it is governed under solas regulatory three what actually is required of equipment on board the ship. if you are looking at cruise vessels, as have been mentioned earlier the last couple days, that is not directly mentioned but they are categorized as ships on international voyages,

and if we look at what is mandatory to have equipment on board the ship ships, on the lifeboat capacity you should have a 75% coverage of the full amount of those passengers and crew on board the ship. and then you can cover 25% of the primary capacity with other elements, meaning they would launch life craft or marine evacuation system. all ships would have a 25% over capacity, and that overcapacity is different by life raft. being part of the marine evacuation system or launch will life raft. those 25% are as a sort of redundancy in the evacuation scenario on board the vessel it for one or another reason the path of the evacuation system should fail during the evacuation. the development drivers that we

are seeing in the industry, there is a capacity requirement we have seen under today, capacity and chip sizes have gone up dramatically over the last couple of decades. and that, of course, put requirements also to the capacities that we have on the evacuation site. also the safety aspects of crew and launch are extremely important, and there's been an increased awareness both by operators but also from class and a different flag states on how crew members are interacting with evacuation system in connection with a given evacuation. then also ship assigned of course is important. that is again driven a little bit by size, but you could literally say in some instances due to the high capacity, the

white beam of the vessels, you're running out of chip size and that could then put requirements to your getting a high capacity for ship site meter that you actually have available. looking at what is currently on the market on marine evacuation systems, since 2000, there's been a heavy increase in the marine evacuation systems primarily driven by the directives that came in force after estonia and, therefore, of course has affect a lot on the taxi ferries. in the last decade was also found a widespread usage in connection with cruise vessels, and currently there are over 2800 green evacuation systems worldwide on approximately 860 vessels. >> if we're looking all of it on the development over time, then one of the most be vigilant -- significant developers have been

from nes generation one to two has been the capacity. the first generation evacuation system was characterized by the check to go buy a platform over into a life raft and that has a lot of impact our connection with handling primarily because they were use very small life raft in connection with the evacuation. just as a comparison to the complexities those systems have, typically handling with it a graduation will be a 50 to 100 handling steps in connection with the evacuation. when you are looking at the second generation evacuation systems, then they are characterized whether a lot more automatic and a lot more with redundancy to pin. they are also not directly in the life raft to your not getting impacts which was divided to the size of the rest has gone up, the amount of

handling steps in connection with the handling has gone down significantly and has been reduced even though the capacity has gone up with approximately 60%. one of the main drivers between generation one and two were also the requirements of the new test programs. that was driven by the misdirected that came in force at the end of the '90s. that outline a lot of different test requirements with a focus especially on the functionality. if we are looking at what actually is important in connection with systems, then there are two key aspects. first, of course, the function of safety. the equipment works under all conditions. that is more unless self-explanatory. when you look at the aspects for

technical reliability, reliable, has to be a reliable, then it has to be documented through tests and durability with a stress test. that is designed to lay out in the mes directive, and under that there is a heavy weather sea trout as one of the most important exercises to conclude. they are the equipment is tested under heavy sea conditions that is 3.5 meters significant wave height as the minimum wind load. and as a manufacture of one of the few judges we actually have is finding weather conditions that are bad enough to go out and actually test the equipment to but it's again self-explanatory. the evacuation systems should also work under extreme weather

conditions. in the equipment also has the designed lifetime. for viking that is -- the designed lifetime of a system is typically approximately 20 years and that means a cruise thus would typically see two updates to its lifetime period. we have over the last two to three years experienced on viking that all major cruise lines have put in into this on updating all their life-saving appliances. and we have initiated together a lot of the major cruise lines now renewal programs that have made sure the equipment is going into an early retirement as originally planned and a new generation of equipment is being stored on the ships. if we are looking at the other aspects that is the ease of use, functionality, handling steps

has to be, handling steps before the actual evacuation has to be minimized to the minimum. also because it's important you can put focus on the evacuees instead of focusing on technical issues in connection with your evacuation systems. then comes to handling steps under the evacuation, and generally everything has to be easy in its design so of the crewmembers remember how the functionality is. the second key aspect is the crew interface. there's no doubt that the human interface is one of the most important parts of the successful evacuation. one of the first things is that the crew has to have the comforts of established by good and solid knowledge that filesystems are working. also, they can stand good

instructors for passengers who have to be a part of and evacuation in a given situation. they also have to be brought into a situation through training where they trust the equipment under all circumstances. in connection with the training is vital. equippage training, that is by deployment and test of systems on board the ship, other important elements because that is where the groomers have a chance of actually learning how to deal with the systems. the means of training, that is the actual equipment or training equipment on board the ships, it is videos and animations and it is manuals and it is tests of crewmembers on different levels. and over the latest period we've developed quite a few training programs also together with cruise lines where crewmembers

are tested on the internet and is certified for some given actions on board ships. went to look at the next generation, then the aim is to raise the bar in safety. one of the goals that we as manufactures have said is we would like to eliminate tactical errors and we would also like to eliminate human errors to that extent. and it is possible knowing in fact that it is perhaps a little bit over what is achievable, but our goal is the one defined. when we're looking at the new generations and particular focus is on automatic launch so that the systems can be launched automatically, not just on the evacuation stations but also from the bridge, to that extent that might be a go. redundancy packet systems meaning that the systems secure automatically can also be backed

up with an automatic launch system is the first system fails and then have the manual if the first two also fail. that is to avoid that we're getting single points of interest in connection with the evacuation process that will put a major part of the evacuation capacity out of usage. also the evacuation flow has been important in connection with the new develop systems to secure the people easily can get in and away from the actual embarkation point on the evacuation system. the whole aspect of the human interface, fewer steps and connection with the launch, no actual crew handling after the launch has taken place so that the crew actually can focus on the crowd control instead of focusing on technical aspects of the evacuation system. training programs, i said before that's been developed together with cruise lines to secure that we actually are getting a spot on required training and make it

possible also on board the ships to do follow-up training. in generally, like i said all stakeholders in interstate sure, interest and responsibility for creating a safe environment at sea. we as suppliers definitely acknowledged that and we do our utmost to secure that also save systems for ships in the future. thank you. >> thank you very much for your presentation. our next presenter is captain hernan zini from royal caribbean international. captain zini. >> thanks again, chairman hersman, and vice chairman and members of the board for giving the opportunity to give to talk a little bit about the topic i will cover today. basically, with introduction of

larger ships as we always say we are looking at ways to improve the kind of safety through science and technology. to give you a bit of background on these topics, the traditional way, we still do back up system initiates is by having assembly stations. they are the leaders with a stations can protocol the names of our guests to basically that information will flow through the different leaders up to the bridge which is typically managed by the director of board the ship, passing information to the bridge. we realized that the technology is a way to use more effectively and timely, and this really gave the opportunity to use the technology for evacuations. when we introduced the oasis club we spent a lot of time doing simulations we been doing with the classification society. we also spent a lot of time on the technology for design,

lifeboats and also looking at evacuation technologies. the use of cctv. we have more than 1300 cameras on the larger ships. the use of the two screens from the bridge the captain top to record to the guests and we've seen a use of technology to pass information. we have the p.a. system inside the lifeboats that can communicate from the bridge before launching. just as important means so this is something that we started in basic with the introduction of the oasis should. the electronic mustering the way it works is you have the p.a. devices, handheld device. it's updated all the time. you have wi-fi on the ship. basically the leaders of the station pass information to the pda and the guests can check the

arrival. they have cards, the same card used for the cabin key and the same card i used for the supercharged over doing expenses aboard the ship, something everyone carries with him all the time. we can swipe those cards and instantly account for the person showing at that station. typically the system we had at the beginning of the house for check in both the presence of guests and crew addressing the station but also at a time aborting the survival craft we can have a separate benefits to see how we are populating each survival craft, how many people we are entering. so the two checkpoints, one at a time assembly and other time at boarding. this information particularly gets updated to our system on the bridge where you can see the assembly station, the population. you can see the percent of completion to you can see by

stations. you can see also by fire zones. you can manage this information in different ways. you can see one station for whatever reason has more guests that should be there and allow you to make timely decisions to manage the mustering. you can also see attendance. we do our assembly drills before departure we can see the percentage of attendance which is very high. just as well in timely manner address those guests that decided for whatever reason not to take part of the drill. so this is showing how the evacuation is done as a person checking to the pda, basically e-mustering, you can basically see who is seen -- who is income who is out. you can see people have been checked on a different station. so somebody for some reason went to a radicalization, while the person is still showing in a

signed muster station you can see on the system this person has been checked in summer else on the should. this was you for accountability making sure you have who has been checked. you can basically do the same technology if somebody has missed a cartridge of ability to search for the person an internet manually. so you have redundancy to complete. this is basically capability already mentioned. recently we been changing the system in the company that allows us to go to the next generation of mustering. some of the recent upgrades we are working with suppliers, last check-in. for instance, the guest is checking at the station for some reason decides to wander around the should because maybe they had become separated from their families or a particular reason, and checks at another station, once we check in, the system account of the last check-in

point and takes them away from where they were checked previously. so by doing this, i would say we continue to find all the different centers we could see through technology to better accountability on where our guests and where our crew are. we also -- [inaudible] so if to me just decided to do one station where the typically assigned, we might relocate them or get into a different route instead of waiting to react. we also have recently upgraded the system so we have a full disability of people. so if somebody happens -- [inaudible] we are constantly working with the system to provide instruction for what to do in

emergency, where to muster. we have a place to also muster the visitors and have full accountability for the. the system is live all the time. you can see with new technology who is at war, who's been off the ship goes on the ship and truly accounting for every single person on board with a guest, and a struct or visitor would basically be on the system and we can account for each soul on board the ship. the benefits we can use this whewinner at port and when we're tinkering. basically we know who is in each tender as people are using that. it's always good to know who has been departing the ship. so that's in a nutshell some of the capabilities of the system. we do also have heard all the cruise lines through different ways we are using new technology, it's one interesting one. you have a much quick way of

accountability. there is a lot of comment about this from a public site because also we understand before this gets fully implemented in a way, we have to do some regulatory side behind us but we see for account crew, particularly also to assign, track our fight team when you're fighting fires. we know that when they are, and the crew in general will be very good technology for us to know how quickly the crew gets to emergency stations and he was not gotten there quickly enough. these are other technologies we are working with currently and we see they could further -- have further potential with the technology to basically have better ways to account for every soul on the board in the quick and efficient manner, given the information to the bridge anytime and to make the right

decisions. so i think that is good. thank you very much. >> thank you very much, captain zini. chairman hersman, that concludes the presentation for this panel. >> is proceed with the technical panel questions. >> thank you. that you for this panel is captain rob jones joined by me and dr. barry staunch. >> thank you, gentlemen. mr. fraende, let's start off with you. the marine feedback system that you install on board cruise systems you did mention of training. d. provide training every time you install, is the part of the contract with the cruise company? >> everything we install, yes, and it's part of the contract with the cruise company. the typical install is also because you could say it's first widely spread in the market for cruise lines over the last decade. then it has been in connection with new bills.

they are the crew is trained on the shipyard by viking personnel and it is a requirement that 50% of the full capacity is actually deployed so that you in an actual full deployment where you are tipping the systems and also has an opportunity for going through the system and trying the whole handling of the systems, the rest of the capacity that isn't typically a shipyard has to be tested then within the next 12 months. in that way you are securing that also crew members have gone on board the ship since the actual launch from the shipyard is getting that education that is required. >> okay, thank you. with this new technology and the implementation of it on these ships can do you see a time where the marine evacuation systems could actually overtake the number of lifeboats or the need for the lifeboat? >> yes, you could.

there will be new developers, no doubt about that, because if you look at innovation and innovation possibilities, then that would live in that area. but in connection with evacuation systems, you have to be very much aware of -- they rely on the lifeboat and were let on the fast rescue boat on the ship. so what is a necessity in order to achieve a replacement for the lifeboats is after our best development ideas, definitely that you are getting a portion on the type of department as well. >> okay. thank you. just one clarification on the slide you should, that's a straight dropped on the side of the ship into one of the systems. is that baffled in a way to slow the descent down? >> it slows the descent down. but you can -- gravity.

it guarantees you to get from point a to point b. but you are going to actually, depending on how long it is, between six to 12 segments that reduces your speed every time you go to a segment and in that way makes it to a controlled descent that you're getting out of it, securing that you're also come out in the condition that you definitely want to be. >> okay, thank you. dr. povel, the simulations in those calculations you ran, how do you factor in, for lack of a better word, if it was an emergency, smoke was filling the passageways, how do you account for that other than just the regular exit through the hallways? >> okay. from the guidelines, that is not mandatory at the moment. you do evacuation simulation with a specific boundary

parameters but as i said, you block staircases or so. the smoke or so in that area is not calculated in the normal face but if you step into designs where you have larger fire zones on boards, then it is needed to do all the stuff the fire simulation, smoke come into action with evacuation and so on. >> okay, thank you. and on these calculations in your simulations brought in as a cruise ship company, is a brought in as an initial design? >> yeah, that is, bring in in early design stage. that is mostly started when the yard has first drop evacuation plan available t. because you need to input data.

if you just have drafted general arrangement, that's not helping because you don't have any number of people or evacuation routing. so you need these basic information to start evacuation simulation. but evacuation simulation is not the only thing you do. the yard also designs the evacuation routes according to code, and that is a good starting point to design the evacuation route. the evacuation simulation that is mostly only a verification of this starting point. >> all right, thank you. and one last question for you, sir. do your calculations are they ever compared with actual personnel used in the same numbers? and how do they compare?

>> yeah. i expected such a question. it is hard to compare that with full real test because of the number of people. the algorithm used in the simulation models verified by universities in smaller test like walking speed in a corridor, on a stair, and so on. >> thank you, sir. mr. caluori, you did say, this question always comes up and i had to cross it off after you mentioned it, but you said once a quarter you do those drills? all right? >> yes. >> could you just walk me through one of the response drills? is everybody sitting at separate desks and a bell rings and response happens? just walk me through it. >> it could very come and we

will agree on the timing of the full drill deployment of the erc. one thing we do is we will allow the ship to designate because we want to be surprised. so we actually come even though there is a menu from which the which we put together some years ago, we will allow the ship, the ship designates the incident drilled to choose the incident itself. so once the manager is called, and assume that we are in normal business hours, that would be within office and, obviously, then the timing to mobilize the erc within a couple of minutes, after business hours it would be a maximum of 15 minutes. so we would mobilize -- and then in that case we would mobilize it remotely using our web tool. we would mobilize the erc or all of the key members of the erc would deployed immediately to the room itself.

it is a checklist of communications. i would be called. it's been my job to call the specific people to whom i report, and we would convene in the boardroom. the respondents inside the rim would then go through a series of checklists. there is one communicated with the ship who, we very much believe in limiting the amounts of communication with the ships. so there's one single dedicated communicated with the shia. we would also in a drilled alert external agency as well. for example, and most of the drills, the quarterly drills we conduct we would work with coast guard and lloyds stability emergency response center, and flag states as well. so it's a for mobilization right through, through the conclusion of the incident. and i would add we also involve the full care team as well and forward mobilization of web eeoc. >> about how long would one of

these drills runs because it can run all day. >> and one last question for you, sir. if you are operating, you can speak just your company, unless you're aware of others, but if your vessels are operated in remote regions, how do you ensure a quick response if there's no coast guard or navy assets, even from other countries available? >> you know, we called, 300 -- princes calls 350 ports worldwide. we do quite a rigorous port assessment of both from a navigational perspective and also from a local infrastructure perspective. that is obviously, ranges from significant to minimal infrastructure. we would also rely in the case of an incident in a remote area in tapping into local regional resources through the marine rescue coordination centers.

and again we would tap into all local resources. again, there's been very infrequent need to do that. in the event of an incident in the report part we would much prefer everybody stays on board. spent just a follow-up. would you partner with other christians that might operate in the same area? again, that you only other resource. >> absolutely, yes. when we have come we used to call them, we would partner with other ships. >> thank you. >> captain zini, i'm going to look at you both because you're the operating captain in your evacuation systems, but the challenges that you this, your crew faces with a brand-new load -- load a passage on board, you're going through drills, they're trying to get a vacation started, how do you impart the

seriousness of what they are getting taught in that short time before you end up getting underway? >> i think probably today from the public there's a lot more awareness of the importance of drills than ever before. that really we can tap into that commission would conduct a very professional drill. we have to be effective and throughout the process find, make sure the guests understand the critical things we expect from them in case of emergency. so the drills typically been -- tend to be very short image. we sound the signal because we have a master system i can see seventh in the drill we have about 90% people at the a silly station. the typical to does ago more than 15 minutes but we have information before that. we do announcements, half an hour, 60 minutes before the

drill. on board the day with a safety video we put on the tv channels that the tv switch on the safety channels of the minute you walk on the ship and to basically get into your state room, your tv is playing the safety channel. the seriousness and importance about the true. we take this very safely, and our guest do so as well. so i think this is i would say for the large majority of our guests, they appreciate the professional drill, conducted in time and an effective manner. we see a very good attitude to that end. >> following up on that, how about the small minority of mighty unruly or not willing to participate? do your crews take a crowd control and defend unruly passengers, that they need to take their point across, tell me how your crew accomplishes that. >> sure. we do anything short of putting them in the station. we try to encourage them in the most polite way that it's important for their safety, and

most of the cases it works. if a guest refuses and the members try the best can we come to talk to a supervisor. typically they try to engage with the gastric if it doesn't work basically take the name of the guest and we approached them later with a letter explain to them that they've missed the drill, that we have, that we value the time, we make ourselves available. sometimes they take the fight, sometimes they don't. but basically we will do our very best to make sure if they're not in the to at least they understand the safety procedure aboard the ship. i would say the percentage of attendance on the drills, we can see this is about 97-98% most of the time. >> okay, thank you, captain. >> chairman hersman, this concludes the question from a technical panel. >> thank you, mr. larue, members. spent another interesting panel will talk about how frequently

the drills are conducted. we talked about mustering and getting off the ship through an evacuation. i want to talk, mr. clore, i think you would be the one i would want to ask about this -- mr. caluori. does princess employ any man overboard protection systems -- detection system? >> no. or i should save not just. there really is no proven successful technology available yet. >> okay. and that was going to be the follow-up. do they have cameras that are trained down the rails and someone constantly watching those monitors? >> yes and no. there's extensive coverage of all areas around the ship, but it's not monitored. >> what's it going to take to get from you know, we have facial recognition software that law enforcement can use to see,

to pick people out. there's all kinds of things that can be done with software. what's it going to take to get this sort of system to bring it to fruition so it can be reliable? >> it's a very good question. it's the right technology, and i, i don't know if anyone else on the panel comment but i have seen any robust technology at. we piloted, we tried thermal imaging technology but is far too sensitive. it would trigger a bird and establish too many false alarms. so right now we rely on human factors, of course, to alert us as soon as possible that somebody has gone over the side by throwing over something that floats and alerting the crew. and there have indeed been some positive stories in that regard where we have retrieved

individuals. >> thank you. does anybody else on the panel have anything to add about man overboard detection systems and the lack of maturation o of the systems and allies were to take to get them, bring them to the market, if that's currently being explored? >> i think that i which is probably add, continue, the comment was made that the technology at this time, we haven't found any reliable source for that. so, you know, we will of course welcome any additional technology that helps us to detect that anytime amanda. i would like to say while we do that we continue to have training in preparation for dealing with those situations, typically when the situation comes to us we have very fast and recover people. >> good. thank you very much. anybody else on the panel? okay. all right, thank you.

>> thank you. having been on a number of cruises on a number of lines, one of the kinder triggered events was always the muster as you are trying to leave board and start your vacation. on a cruise last month, i found that process was vastly improved through the use of some technology, cards and so forth. but one of the things that always impressed me was everybody gets pressed into service, including entertainers, cabin stewards, the tiny step and so forth. but these people change on a fairly frequent basis. how do you come and i think this is probably to start with, mr. caluori, how do you keep these folks who are so important in handling all of the guests, all of the passengers, how do you keep these people informed,

assigned with clear expectations so that when the real if it should happen, that they in fact are prepared and that it will go off smoothly? >> thank you. it's a very good question and it's obviously one as you point out one of the most inherent challenges of poverty to ship is tthe turn of staff. so, therefore, we invest a lot in training, of course. any new hire would go through a very extensive modernization process when they joined the ship. a returning employee goes through a similar training, tier one and tier two training which is conducted by the safety officer onboard the ship. and the training is pervasive. and as you quite rightly point out, the responsibility for safety when it comes to mustering an evacuation responsibility is pervasive

throughout the ship. so, for example, on one of our ships of 113,000 tons, were we have approximate 1250 crew members, one-third of them would have specific responsibilities in the event of an emergency, including searching cabins for occupants. there would be approximately 200 of the staff responsible for being stairway guides and muster personnel. so in answer to question this requires constant training, constant meditation and constant investment. and i think every much speaks to the safety culture question that's come up many times during the last two days and one of the leading indicators for us with crew is that they have to see us walk the walk as well as talk the talk, and they have to see constant investment in particularly in technology and ethic electronic mustering is a significant example of that. >> thank you. captain zini, you mentioned the

technology that you're using in this process, and, of course, that makes it much more straightforward to keep track of who is on, who's off, and so forth. but many of these kind of events often are a stacked up of remote events. so how do you assure power, i mean, all of these devices require electrical power. is this an essential system on the emergency bus? and if so what is the reliability of that power source? >> yes, thank you. that pdas are basically constantly charged and to have enough power capacity for the time of particular incident to be considered so the typical battery i think last eight to 10 hours. the infrastructure around the wi-fi are supplied by emergency

power. also we have the capability to take the physical pda to the bridge and download it to a separate computer that could be used in case of emergency. so of course that would not be preferred technique because we be -- one of the things we like but in the case of that's not working in the pdas can still centralize information but this is something that while the hope we never have to use, we are planning and training for in cases of evacuation. so the pdas will go ashore with our lifeboats and we could very quickly assign a laptop for our care teams to make sure the we work with whatever authorities are in charge of the time to coordinate and collect all information in a timely manner. so that's basically one of the ways we can use technology, this way. >> i noticed one of your slides talked about the use of wi-fi on

the ship to keep the communication going. is the wi-fi also been on a battery backup? >> a sickly it is but basically that's what i is a the progresse wi-fi with a framework, that we use for updated it if it fails you can take pda to a centralized location send and download the data into the such the. >> so there still is a paper manifest. >> we do have a paper manifests as a backup, yes. >> and one last question regarding the life raft situation. just to follow on from captain jones, i'm kind of amazed at the vertical drop. you said there were several

layers you with you on the descent. >> that's correct. >> just out of curiosity, how did these slow -- >> the best comparison is that you have like an elastic sock that goes around your body when you go down. and that is reducing your speed all the way down. it is made of an elastic and combined with an unfindable material to make sure that there's definitely, can work for a long period of time. i guess just if all that along, i presume this is a one person at a time? >> correct. >> because otherwise it could be kind of comical spin there's no chance of colliding in a system like that. it's traffic light controlled

where there are three sensors on the way down that signal the embarkation point where the last person has concert is actually at any given point located. and first there's a green light coming up at imprecation system and then you can send the next one through that indicates that the person has left the escape way. >> this is amenable to having several shoots for a single lifeboat? >> yes. there typically are too on the system. also a basic printable for redundancy because if an incident should happen and one material for a something like that, you still have the other escape with available. >> very good. thank you. >> i think that's a video we would've liked to have seen. so if there's anything you can sort of add, i'm actually trying to get a big picture. yesterday, we heard that safe

return to port for all of the discussion really kind of came into being in 2010. so remains aspirational, it's not pervasive throughout the fleet. really which are talking about on this panel is what's available now. such as help you understand, given the size would talk about, potentially 8000 souls can we get them into these systems, how long can they survive out there, and what's the plan for rescue? you were just talking earlier about a less there's a ship, but even the ship of a size that can handle that many people, i'm not sure there's one that can do that. so what's the plan right now as far as sort of mentioned a number of people we've got before? i don't need it from everybody but give me a sense of current state, what's the plan? >> if we can take it from -- [inaudible]

that is on international voyages, all life raft and also lifeboats is carried what is called an aide tactic that would allow you to sustain in a comfortable way to get food and drink for six days. that is the criteria spent okay. so i've got six days with my 8000 people on the water. what do we do next? understand get a feel because we're talking about you can have relationship with others were ships could be nearby. they may or may not be the size of the with it. i'm not sure that many other vessels navy or otherwise, aircraft carriers unfamiliar with, but now we have six days for those people in the water. what's the plan next? >> i think it was mentioned we would use only search and rescue capability of the area. just would like to also make the comment on the same ships you mentioned, that have a thousand people, the other ships have implemented the return to port ahead of the regulations, they

understand as a company that imports for us as an operation ship, nevertheless we also have to prepared for the worst case scenario. i 20 make sure that the 8000 live ships which operate -- >> those are the ones -- >> those are the ones that returned to port ahead of time commander of the requirements and have many other things that are required by the industry. and i think it shows us as we take these issues and had to make sure we try to develop the best possible ship to operate is safe. also those ships operate in the caribbean where we do have a lot of traffic and we do have a lot of other ships around them. so god forbid that we have the need for that. we have a lot of resources around. >> is there a group that's actually stimulated this? on their rehearsals?

is baking indication system if we need to bring it to ships are going to do it, i need 10 on this channel, come help me. on those kind of industry level kind of scenario practiced, tried? .. >> and through them we can get assistance to the ship very quickly. elliott mentioned the