country in 2016. those are big ticket challenges. any one of those would be quite a challenge for most countries. doing all three of those in the country and the context that i described at the beginning of somalia is, is outrageous -- outrageously ambitious. however, is it doable? i still firmly believe it is. we have two and a half years. i think we will have much clear ideas of whether it is available certainly by the end of this year, because there is a drop framework of action, the vision 2016 the government is preparing with a very tight timetable of exactly what needs to happen i win, i do. and there is no real margin for

slippage in that. parliament has now come back meeting in mogadishu. it has to enact several key pieces of legislation in this session or else which shall be off track. so we will know quite soon whether this outrageously ambitious project is going to be doable or not. but at this stage there is no reason to say that it can't be done. meanwhile, apart from having this plan of action of achieving these three major big ticket items, there is an outbreak, if you like, across somalia of free market, free market bidding process to become federal member states. so on the ground people are taking the initiative to set up their own federal states without

waiting for a federal government led orderly process. so we have currently as many of you will know, between those advocating a three region and those advocating a six region federal-state, which is a difficult issue. we still have the implementation of the juba administration agreement which is taking time to work through, and then we had to develop freelance initiatives where lower chevelle the, metal shed valley, they want to be states. there were a few weeks ago when it seemed like more or less every other day a new president was appointed somewhere. seems to be a growth industry in the self-appointed presidents. but that's fine. what is encouraging i think that is the federal government is

taking more of a proactive and leading role of it. it can't be directed and it can't be imposed for mogadishu. it has to be a process that takes the councils views and ceilings at the local level and different stakeholders. but nor can it be completely laissez-faire and free market. there has to be some structure to it, especially if they're going to reach the timetable of by the end of this year forming the new provisional federal map of somalia with all the provisional interim federal member states formed. so certainly we as the u.n. are supporting, encouraging now a slightly more structured approach to this, and we will see how we get on. i think, you know, i'm cautiously optimistic that we

can reach that goal by the end of this year of somalia having decided that new federal map. thirdly, international engagement, progress on that, i think, you know, i think it is progress that is worth remarking there. johnnie alluded to in his opening comments that somalia is a unique blend of internationalism really. it's been quite excremental in many ways. we have the african union doing the fighting. we have the european union paying a lot of the costs if we have the united nations giving them the logistical support to do that, and also the political mandate from the security council. it's quite, yes, quite an innovative model. sometimes streamline --

[inaudible] but it's working, delivering the results that were hoped for and expected. that's unique on that site, and i think there's a second unique thing which is common to play last september in brussels when the new deal compact was finalized, which is the first for embracing fully comprehensive new deal based on the principles of partnership between a fragile state and the donor community. again, for the progress is being made on the. the architecture is there. the funding mechanisms are now being established, multi-partnered trust fund to the world bank and the u.n. they're about to come on stream.

the world bank has released 209 identified for the initial transfer from their fund. this will then, funding the flagship project which the government has identified, and at last i hope that people will start to see where the beef is, if it's not offensive to vegetarians like me, but yes, there has been a period of frustration. lef..

taxes apart from those in the mogadishu port etc.. there is now a finance minister who was in washington a couple of weeks ago. he comes with experience and also experience in running save the children east africa for a couple of years. he has a very good work plans of introducing for example taxation, making him probably than the leasleastpopular man ie most popular in washington. it is the right thing to do. and working very closely with world bank, the imf and the african development bank on a financial governance committee, which is a noble structure to ensure in financial governance

and financial management. it's a new mechanism that came about after the crisis caused by the resignation of the former central bank governor that is showing encouraging signs of being a valuable way of creating a better environment that we need. i mentioned at the beginning that we rapidly go through my notes on those and -- i was saying to johnnie before the first meeting i think one of the biggest perils and messages i've been getting here in washington to state department colleagues and will be giving in new york again tomorrow is the peril of international community taking its eyes off the ball on somalia. yes there are many competing

crises in areas for attention, whether it's centra it's centraa republic, south sudan, seriocomic ukraine, whatever. clearly somalia isn't in that category of headline generating day-to-day news. but, i do worry that if the international interest visibly drops then not only will resource mobilization dropped -- and it does need resourcing -- but also, it will give space and latitude to somali politicians to revert to some of the less attractive and productive ways of behaving. so i think it requires senior international attention visits, continued high-level meetings and there will be one in

copenhagen in november hosted by the danish government at the ministerial level, and it needs continuing messaging from the international political leaders not just encouraging the government, not just reassuring somalis, but both of those are important. but at times also getting quite pointed messages to those that might seek to spoil the progress that is being made in destabilizing the government. the second peril nearest is the humanitarian one. just over two years ago, two and a half years ago somalia was in the headlines with nearly 500,000 people.

we are not in a position now. food security has recovered. however, it's showing worrying signs now in the cases of potential food insecurity. some of it related to the offensive that happened in the disbursement of people. we don't know the impact that that will have on planting or harvesting. it is an elemental way and there is also the element of blockading the food supply. there is a worst-case scenario in the two to three months to complete to severe food problems. all of that against the background of the first peril of international attention and most demonstrably it is in terms of the funding for the humanitarian activities in somalia.

the consolidated appeal humanitarian's mysterious $933 million. as of yesterday, only $111 million had been found so that is about 12% of the fundi funding. but they are laying off the staff because they don't have the funding. all of that as i say in the context we don't know but in two or three months time we may be faced with a severe food insecurity issue. so i am concerned that the humanitarian risk is a peril. we forget sometimes the scale of the needs in somalia linked to the conflict etc.. but in any one day at least 50,000 children who are severely undernourished and one in the

worst with a life expectancy very, very low. currently the un is favoring 1 million people every day in somalia. some of these figures would cause headlines w where in other cases in the case of somalia people become less to this ongoing humanitarian. the third peril i can think of and that is probably my peril more than others is not thinking ahead. we do -- it is easy. it is linked to that somalia we get trapped in the same old same old. it's a persistent, ongoing

country with problems of governance, security, etc.. sometimes you can't spot the opportunities when they happen, and you're not ready to exploit them. and i think we are potentially in that situation now with the transformation of the military piece of the government extension of the authority to the 25 new districts in town, and we are not necessarily in as good a shape as we should be in order to exploit those opportunities of delivering the stabilization affects in the population. simple things like enabling the government to be able to visit. they can't go to these places unless they have the transport and mostly helicopters and as we said earlier, we don't have enough of those in the short supply. so more funding for the federal

government to be noble and to be able to get around this country is definitely needed. the final peril i think for me personally and more widely i think is for the international community is getting the security balance wrong, making a miscalculation on the security. what do i mean by that is that i'm deeply conscious that if we make -- if we make a mistake in our security presence and foster and suffer a significant attack, particularly on the un, this is likely to be us withdrawing from somalia. we are only sort of tentatively to some extent on the ground in mogadishu and exposed june 19 we

had a compound attack and we lost some colleagues and the agency funds and programs since june have been largely based in nairobi and not on the grounds in mogadishu. we are about to revert to reintroduce the agency to programs on the ground. but i'm of course deeply conscious that runs the risk and there are scenarios in which if we take significant losses, then that would have a strategic effect on our mission. we lost two colleagues over a week ago, two weeks ago who were fascinated. again, another harsh reminder that this is a lawless place that we operate come and/or un

colleagues doing so every day run a personal risk. so, we have to measure our prisons and i would encourage others to be current in mogadishu more and more and i've encouraged the u.s. to be present there as well with thinking and be leaving that it's right that we should be there. we should stay. we should hold on and accept the risk. i am also deeply conscious that there are risks and if we get hit very badly, then it might have an impact. so, there we are. those are some of the perils that keeps me going. so what do we do? we have a very good plan. we have a very good mandate for the security council mission in somalia and we should continue to support that. it's up for renewal and we have

the new deal compact which is a good framework. we should stick with that and make that work and make sure that we deliver through it in the next few months. and we have a good robust security operation in the presence that we need to back that and a fund that and keep that sustained as well. so, essentially, we do plan a. thank you. [applause] >> thank you very much for giving us a very broad and comprehensive update on developments in somalia. i know that we have a large audience with us today, and there will be lots of questions. i'd like to start off the

discussion by asking several of my own. the first one pertains to the neighbors. can you give us some indication of the ongoing political and security relationships that exist between mogadishu and kenya, ethiopia, djibouti, and how are those relationships evil evoloving? >> the relationship is absolutely vital. as we know over the past anywhere, the neighbors are quite important. they have a capacity.

currently, i think the relationships are actually very strong, and particularly noteworthy in the last few months strengthening the relationship with ethiopia, which has led to enable the incorporation of ethiopia to the forces. quite controversially that was given the history of ethiopia engagement in somalia which hasn't always been happy or well received by somalis. i think there has been a strategic change in approach from ethiopia and the government in somalia to each other and i think that's very positive. i think they are both now very committed to working for improving stability in somalia and the latest abilities and the somaliland government and

ethiopia sees in its strategic interest to have a strong stable somalia. so, i think that's encouraging. but of course again what is unique about the amisom thing is that in defiance of often the normal practice, it is abnormal for the neighbors to take part in the peacekeeping missions and amisom is more or less constituted by the neighboring countries, djibouti, and it seems to be a successful thing. egad has a recently appointed actor on the political file supporting the prime minister last week in kismayo to take a

lead in the supporting role for the federal government on that. >> we know kenya is an important partner and the headlines dominated recently obviously by the detentions and returns of somali friends from nairobi and certainly from the unhci we have expressed our concerns about the manner of some of those detentions and the need for the strict compliance with the international law and practice and refugees should not be deported with those refugees in kenya should have the right to

the refugees. >> can i ask you about another neighbor, and that's the regional government of the hunt planned. there is a new president here who had formerly been a prime minister in the previous transitional federal government, the former president has stepped aside. what is the relationship between somalia and puntland these days with the president? >> it is not secessionist, it is a part of somalia and it is in

the process of trying to agree and come to a sort of settlement on the nature of the federal relationship between itself and mogadishu. and i think it is encouraging at the moment as you said the president gets there with his background as a national politician, federal politician, possibly even a future vision of returning to the national federal role. but i think what that means is that he's very interested in getting the puntland mogadishu relationship back on track. i'm encouraged i think the kind mr. is intending to visit quite soon which will be taking a senior ministerial delegation, possibly the speaker of the parliament and really getting down to business with how they

can relate to each other. >> it is a conversation that somalia in the end needs to have. this is the heart of the federalism. what is the revenue competency of resources etc. between the center and the federal member states. puntland is the most advanced in being the federal member state. so i guess they are likely to lead the way on that conversation. >> let me -- before we opened this up, let me ask you one other larger question. and that is what is the continuing appeal in somalia for al-shabaab and why are they able still to continue to bring

recruits? >> good question. we still don't quite understand the phenomena as well as we should. the united nations has no intelligence capability and ability to look behind the scenes and understand these things as some member states might be able to. my general sense is that they have relied on a combination of some coalition, some intimidation, also some sort of economic opportunity that they offer to people who don't have any other economic opportunity or opening. mix in with that some local politics where potentially along

the planned lines were others there is an interest in supporting. the members though there is no evidence the numbers are growi growing. the numbers would be reducing under the pressure they are on now. at the amisom figure has always been 5,000 rather static at 5,000 not a huge number of people but i think that is probably a guesstimate. many will be for soldiers who are probably persuadable when the time comes to rehabilitate. we have been putting some emphasis on the un to support the government to establishing rehabilitation centers for disengaged combat since. there is one in mogadishu and

one in the kismayo. so the people can be disengaged and there's been serious security concerns as they go through the judicial system in somalia those that are less concerned to go into the rehabilitation's and trained skills. we are very convinced that eventually there will be a political discussion to be had. some of al-shabaab, the heart may not ever be open to that conversation and i'm sure some others will be. i am not sure the time is right at the moment but i'm sure the knowledge and wisdom in the room will attest to the fact most

conflicts and in some kind of political settlement. >> if you don't mind, we are going to open this up to the audience. we have got one question here on the left-hand side. yes, sir. >> i am a military advisor in the bureau that state. when al-shabaab controlled territory it is established the rule of law by imposing its radical form of islam at the end. and in order for somalia to establish a rule of law requires police and courts and prosecutors and judges and jails, all five relatively uncorrupt and relatively efficient. now, if we -- and i mean the somali federal government with amisom and the international community -- don't help establish the rule of law in these newly liberated areas or the areas that have been

liberated for quite some time in the larger cities, we will lose the people by replacing al-shabaab controlled chaos. i was wondering what are we doing to help focus on the rule of law and what could or should we be doing? .

national elections. what is your assessment and your strategic movement if that is not the case? a lot of formalities talking about the notion of somalia. that is what we see on social media. the question with regards to somalia, and in belgium. i know his family very well and i speak with them. five children and his wife in prison, the case of i don't understand what is going gone in somalia, the somalia office, and impact into that reconsideration talking to the belgians and to

know where the case is going. >> we will take those two questions. >> what is to be done about that and whether al-shabaab has adjusted to more accessible justice. i think the immediate challenge is it is important, some reasonable administration and rule of law in the aftermath of al-shabaab leaving. the government has drawn out one which relies a lot on using traditional justice systems and

looking for traditional leaders rather than a five star proper system imported which isn't politically acceptable or practical in any way. we are just now trying to build up on what is happening on the ground in these newly accessible areas and the initial report seems to suggest traditional elders, that have been there, the somalian national army and some presence at least in the emmy the aftermath of law and order being maintained. there is a need in these places and again, try to -- locally recruit those who have been

fulfilling this role one way or another anyway and require professional development rather than training hundreds in mogadishu and sending them to the region's. back in mogadishu the federal justice system there is a lot of work that is needed there and we are beginning rule of law security institutions team in the intermission, one of our biggest teams, they are certainly providing a lot of strategic advice and technical assistance to the judiciary, to the corrections and ministries this is going to take quite a while. there is some fundamental legislation that still needs to be put in place. the judicial services commission, the parliament has a list of about 16 draft bills,

for one person or other each of those drafted bills is a high priority and they need to get through in this parliamentary session but this is a parliament that has only managed to get through four laws in the last 18 months. very ambitious. but prioritization will be necessary. >> the elections and the igad trusteeship, i don't follow the same social media you do. what is the plan? is it is definitely plan a, e elections in 2016. in the draft framework of action vision 2016, in that it does acknowledge that potentially for security reasons the election may not be possible in all the

territory. it will then need to be alternative arrangements made for those areas where security doesn't permit elections. at this stage 2-1/2 years out it is impossible to predict how much territory will or won't be under government control. if you extrapolate from the last six weeks, dramatic progress has been made. by 2016 it shouldn't be a problem. we don't know. i think the planning, to plan on elections everywhere seems to me realistic in some areas, it may not be possible, an alternative mechanism might be needed. hugely challenging. if a country was going to be doing any one of the three things that somalia decided to do, any one of those things

would be a major challenge. holding elections in a country that has not had elections since the late 60s was a challenge. it depends on what holding elections means. is an important issue to do with political party, political parties, there has to be a law establishing political parties. a highly frost issue, the role of religion, will they be allowed in any way and the regional dynamic whether it is regional or national. a lot yet to sort out. overall, i still think somalia, this is a huge generalization, traditionally, culturally condescending. my general sense is somalis are well adapted to this kind of

thing. after 23, 24 years of fighting, politically people have turned the page and don't want to fight anymore, particularly the younger generation do not. somalis love discussion. they love language and words and arguments. and are well suited to a resolution problem by political processes. they have many traditional approaches to reconciliation and dispute resolution, which have worked throughout the years in one way or another. solving the problem is something many somalis would say leave us to do that and that is a huge the culturally condescending thing to say but i do think

there's something there which is grounds for optimism and encouragement. the last minute as well. timetables, somalia and many countries are able to do things at short notice and last minute but somalia particularly good at getting up to the wire and pulling off what seems to be impossible. in a very short time. i still think the chance to do that, sorry. >> we are going to go back and forth. you had your hand up first. >> formerly dod and co-conspirator with ambassador carson on a number of issues.

question about the somali diaspora, in the past two decades, either a positive influence or complicating factor. there is influence in resources the issues there. is there a strategy for engaging the diaspora weather in the gulf war north america and what might the components of such a strategy be? thank you. >> the gentleman in the blue shirt here, back and forth across the aisle. >> doug barack, consultant. my question is on security sector reform. please give us an update who is doing it and how it is going and are the troops and police being properly paid? >> we will take those two. >> there was another question that i will take note of.

what the president of this vision is doing and in belgium, i will ask my colleague. diaspora, the importance in the diaspora and the strategy. the somalis diaspora is a very distinct and important phenomenon. the third of the population is outside somalia, 3 million or so. some very concentrated and specific areas, some very successful. in terms of engaging them i don't know if i have a strategy but i make a point of doing that in minnesota and london and

nairobi and of the gobby --abu d dha dhabi. it is important to hear them. to some extent what is running through my mind the diaspora, the dichotomy, two schools of thought, two versions of the diaspora are a force for change, for good, they have modern approaches and modern exposure to institutions, ways of doing things, great resources for their country, particularly economic areas. that is the good, the progressive and plenty of evidence of that with young diaspora returning, a very important role. then there is the other version

of the diaspora in the diaspora communities as they become stuck in time and more extreme and fixed in their views than the communities back in their home country. i don't know. it runs deeper and the clans fuelling, feuding and divisions sometimes seem to exist deeper in the diaspora and they fund and in flame it back in somalia in ways which are not helpful. more exaggerated, the communities on the ground, very often based on flatness of information, rumors, stories that have changed and exaggerated in the telling

between an incident that happens, by the time it is retold in minneapolis it is of very different story. i think it is a mixed thing. the biggest set of issues about the elections, some molly parliament and people as well, will the diaspora have a boat? the citizenship law and election law as far as the elections, i am not sure. it will be interesting to see how that one plays out. security reform, who is doing it? the answer is lots of people are doing bits. this is not a country like

afghanistan war sierra leone where there was a symbol--single framework. they are doing the army, they are doing with the police. in somalia at it is best with a number of partners, doing little bits which puts a great unknown is on the need for coordination, federal government led coordination in the spirit of new deal compact. and some of them roll in to support the federal government in doing that coordinations so bring the secretary out for a lot of working groups and committees to coordinate security, working groups and subcommittees, training working groups, logistics' working group's and things. a lot of coordination necessary

with so many different actors doing little bits. it is the concern to me because when you have a little bit, i don't think they yet add up to a sufficient one. this is an underresources area essentials day. building a new some multinational area. it will be a costly process and at the moment i don't think internationally we have gathered sufficient resources to do that. it would be timely for a stocktaking of the plans and strategies that were agreed at the london conference last may, good strategies have been planned. where the brokerages are, all that needs to be done with a smaller group of countries,

those who are most directly involved in it and those who are directly involved for example on the military side is the united states, european union, turkey, chile -- at least half a dozen and some of them not comfortable bedfellows either. not traditional bedfellows. uae is accustomed to doing things on its own. some of the others including the u.s. very focused on what they are doing, and the european union, any way it requires a bit

of coordination which is happening. paying is a better story. the army has been paid by turkey for the last nine months now. does not to gain and this is bold news, turkey giving direct funding to the central bank, budget support for funding the army's salary. most of which are being received. sometimes there is a delay. most of it gets through. that is an important thing. there are biometrics sort of registration and payment system that is not yet in place. others have been funding, it leaped has done quite a lot on the stipend for thought army.

being recruited, as unsung, helping support recruiting 2,400 new ones this year and again with the biometric payment system. payments in general again, progress is happening. civil servants are now being paid through special financing facilities funded by norway. and civil servants are identified, registered and paid against biometric payment systems. one of the first flagship programs in the multi partner trust fund in the world bank establishing the same sort of payment system as teachers and that will be reinforcing the unicef program called go to school which is aiming at and rolling a million children in

school, 250,000 since it began in september as well as recruitment of a significant number of teachers and the opening of new school buildings for the first time across somalia, for the first time since 1991 and these are in south-central. adding up to the biometric payment, the teachers, we should always remember that despite all those perils and challenges, security and corruption, despite all of that progress is being made and can be made and the long lines we all worked on in many other countries and solutions coming, biometric payment systems are things introduced in afghanistan and other countries. we have been through that chain

of payments and things, the international community collectively has gotten a lot of experience, positive and successful experience of helping states recover from conflict. we need to not to be too downcast. we know how to do this. we have seen it done before. it can be done. >> we are going to take a couple more questions from both sides and try to wind down. you have a question, the gentleman in a brown brats -- jacket that we will get to over here. >> i am alan from the wilson center. could you please say something about how you see the prospects for some mollyland, its relation to national authorities and the role of the unsung presidents.

>> the african desk at euro magazine. the new deal of the united states was from roosevelt, oriented toward infrastructure, economic development, energy, roads and putting people to work. could you say something, none of the stuff you mentioned so far, financing and world bank but are there projects to build roads, to grow food? this is primary importance, the lack in south sudan proved to be a disaster. people were not given jobs. it was a lack of dividend and desperation of the people. if you want to amata al-shabaab we want to eliminate the desperation. maybe you could say something about that in terms of economic development, not the financial part. >> we will do these two.

>> thank you. so mollyland. good question. some mollyland is in a unique position where it is deeply entrenched in its own view and claim of independence, that is also a singularly not recognized as an independent state by a single other state in the world. the international legal position is extremely clear those government and in somaliland entrenched in its own personal

-- and i think my general sense is that that situation is likely to go on for quite some time. and the issue of somalia address these issues of drawing up a new federal constitution. having eventually ease elections in 2016. all of that will happen with somalia, somaliland, all of that standing outside or what ever, and i suspected that will prevail. that said, there are talks brokered by turkey going gone, institutionalized for somaliland and somali. looking at areas of mutual

interest, more of the technical levels they may progress to more political level discussions. it is good that the process is happening and the turkish government to supporting that. for -- i have been to somaliland once, june or july last year. very good visit to hargeisa, well received and looked after, impressive development parliament, then i went for a last meeting of the program, the president was charming but told me not to come again. because he said you are the head

of the united nations assistance commission in somali at and you will find you got the wrong country. they are next door. and your mandate from the security council to promote federalism, constitutional review, elections and things like that, how will you do that? i can entirely understand from their end of the telescope why they felt that. is regrettable, many things other than the support for the political process, also supporting security sector reform, we are also doing a large amount of human rights, capacity building, monitoring and reporting.

all of those sayings would be of relevance and interest to hargeisa and somaliland. my hope is we didn't fall out. i respect their view on this and i think there will come a time we will sit down and talk it through again and i am always very open to that conversation. >> the question about the new deal and infrastructure, it is a huge missing link to the component and if you ask president hassan sheikh mohamud what he wants from international pledges, can somebody come and do 30 kilometers of the road, that could make the difference, power station would help to

refurbish. major infrastructure projects. and the answer so far is those who would traditionally do this african development bank are not yet engaged in looking at those major projects but i think, i hope that they will as they become more comfortable with the conditions in somalia, brings us back to security again. world bank has been very interested for an international financial institution that finds washington on friday after noon. they are being very intrepid, the world bank, somalia, taking office space with us in mogadishu international airport and continue to engage work on

the ground. not all of them are so interested. it has leaked little bit to the security unfortunately. little bit to interception of the national governor and national management context, but we need to change the dial and dial up major infrastructure and economic generating project. >> running into overtime. we will take two questions in the front and the gentleman in the blue jacket. >> my name is ahmed, i was born in mogadishu and lived most of my life in the u.s.. thank you for the hard work you are doing. you are doing a good job. i met you briefly in september in mogadishu, the vision 2016 conference and i am still hopeful, part of the folks that worked with teams that would

prepare -- i am hopeful that you will do a 2016 election meeting for the election. you have touched a very comprehensive work of the un and international community in somalia. my question is is there a program or an effort to bring about peace among the tribal groups. there was a civil war after all and we know many countries, there was a model after africana and they use it to bring folks, we need to heal. what is the international community in general, member countries doing? can you touch upon that?

>> quick question within the broader context and all the challenges there there are refuge influences from people living in mogadishu and many have been evicted as land pressures increased but in september they were trying to work with the government to prevent evictions that were short term enforceable and create an alternative site. wonder if there's any update in terms of finding secure land tenure. thank you so much. >> the truth of that consideration there is interest in it from the federal government as well and parliament too looking at truth

in reconciliation commission and draft law. what i am not 100% sure about is how it universal within somalia is the appetite for all of this, a delicate sort of very obviously. at the moment the reconciliation that is happening is happening more or less as a part of the federalism process those that disputes and differences need to be reconciled within the local context going towards forming a regional, interim regional administration. so the big ticket political process. i am not 100% sure what the

appetite more generally is for holdings people to account for some of the terrible things that have happened over the last 23, 24 years. very difficult to say but putting my finger in the air my impression is the general consensus is we shouldn't be holding people to account. we should turn the page. some of the dreadful things that happened were so dreadful, following that sort of avenue of holding people to justice for what has happened would be destabilizing. that is not universal at all. you can see a way -- detained by former al-shabaab leader, very divisive figure. his clan thinks he should be released immediately and given a

government pension and a villa and be treated nicely. only some of his clan think that. a lot of the people, other somalis feel he is responsible for the deaths of many innocent people and should be in their words put against the wall and shot. inevitably that is quite a range of deep feelings and emotions can't this issue. the plan at the moment is national vision 2016 strategy, forming a federal unit, the opening of political space, political parties which have seen how they process real reconciliation. we will see. links to land to some extent as

well. lot of the fundamental disputes are of that land, issues like the river valley, not surprisingly in a country which is relatively dry there's a lot of dispute over land that is relatively wet. end over the last 24 years of conflict of course people have moved. the land has been occupied. and there is a key huge amount of dispute within mogadishu and elsewhere. it is again an open question. little bit of work being done on it particularly fao and more

will need to be done. its links to the problem in mogadishu, last week there was an unfortunate confrontation between the authorities disputing ownership of land some of which was occupied by i d ps, since the local authorities, uniformed people, somali national army, prosecuting their claim for that bit of land and it was a nasty incidents. what it wasn't was the somali national army, in some sort of indiscriminate -- it was all about the dispute of the land.

and i have no doubt the difficulty of operating the attack on the compound in june since last year. how hard to work closely with the federal government, authorities and the mayor of mogadishu in terms of making and implementing the proper treatment of idps. they have been lew -- moved in mogadishu by the local authorities, and worked up with local authorities. and they are so potent on the ground. >> i think that is in fact our

last question, ambassador kay has given us an extremely broad and comprehensive overview of the progress and the pills, with respect to developments in somalia today. i think we can all measure the progress and you have outlined some of the clear things that have been done, but the warning flags, difficulties ahead are quite clear. i want to personally thank you for being the with us this morning, with us at the united states institute for peace. we are committed to trying to

mitigate and results conflicts like the one that has existed so long in somalia. i appreciate enormously your work and continue to move that situation into a war, stable and secure. i would like everyone to join me in thanking ambassador kay for his presentation. thank you very much. [applause] >> congress in the second week of the two week recess. members return monday for legislative work. the senate will debate nominations was the house hasn't released its schedule yet. during the break some members are on overseas tours and others stayed in their home district. here is a look at what a few are up to. connecticut democrat elizabeth estee tweets enjoy hearing from

students about their 21st century job skills. and lee kerri, world war ii veteran with 11 service medals. please join me in thanking this patriot for his service and representative rick larsen, a part of an effort to make crude by rail savor and for land line today to understand how inspections happened and if we need more. >> in our last hour on wednesdays at the washington journal will look at recent magazine article as part of our spotlight on magazine series. looking at bloomberg business week, a recent article with the headline casinos know when to fold them. brian miller is bloomberg industry's gaming analyst joining us from new york this morning. your colleague wrote this piece for the magazine. you study this industry, delve into it every day.

how large is the gaming industry in the united states? >> the gaming industry we look at is $38.5 billion. that is a full year fiscal 2013 number. important to note that includes commercial casinos throughout the united states but not native american casinos which are larger and their own right, a $30 billion industry and lottery sales, the lottery itself is a very large industry that is somewhat specialized and specific to certain states. >> what has been the trend in present day and what is the status? >> guest: going back to the 1930s and 40s you have one market in the u.s. and that was las vegas, nevada. starting in the 70s, gambling was legalized in new jersey. that would be atlantic city and throughout the 80s, 90 and

2,000s casinos across the rest of the country referred to as regional gambling markets so you have one major destination markets in the united states, the largest market, las vegas and the las vegas strip, the second-biggest market is atlantic city and a lot of other little markets around the country. the state of the industry is one that although it continues to grow in new areas is saturated in many areas and declining in some specific areas, certainly in more mature markets. one weekend discuss with the atlantic city casino revenue has declined 40% in 2006. >> host: hence the headline, casinos know when to fold them. what is going on? >> guest: the problem is twofold. one is you have too much supply. gambling regardless where you are, this includes las vegas deals with how close you are to the proximity to the casino.

the problem in many markets, mature casinos using atlantic city as an example is as other states legalized gaming, that sucked business away from those existing casinos. casinos have a very high fixed cost structure. you have to have a lot of employees in the casino especially if you have a hotel or other amenities attached and those employees have regular recurring fixed costs so you have to have a certain amount of business coming in on a regular basis to cover those fixed costs to make money but when you lose customers to other closer casinos those casinos financially get into trouble. that is the first problem, a supply problem. the second is the demand issue and what we have seen following what we call the great recession is the dynamics of the labor force in the united states change and there has been a kind of dual recovery where the upper-class, people, higher income wage earners have done better proportionally than low-income people and we have

seen people move from blue collar jobs, construction is a great example, to retail jobs that have a lower hourly wage base. that sucks discretionary income out of people's budgets and they are able to gamble less, gambling being a discretionary activity. >> host: why do we see states start to build, approve more casinos in their region? in their areas? >> two reasons. one is jobs. media job creation and construction jobs, long-term job creation because of the employment at the casino itself and the second is tax revenue. casinos are taxed at the federal level but that is somewhat separate. state and local taxes are taken directly out of revenue and a lot of that money is following the recession or even before, states look for ways to poke holes in their budgets, as casinos have an opportunity and tax casino that state and local

level and high percentage, anywhere from 20% to 30% and that is incremental money going into your general-obligation fund or specifically tailored to school funds though they used as a stopgap measure to balance the budget. >> host: from the article by your colleague for bloomberg business week the irony is it was the economic downturn that prompted several states to expand gambling offerings as a way to increase tax revenue. maryland voters approve the state's first casinos in a 2008 referendum. messages is legislators joined them in 2011. illinois began rolling out slot machines in 2012. new york voters approved a maximum seven resorts last year. financial projections have been made with a gambler at sense of optimism. ohio voters were told to expect $1.42 billion annually in gambling revenue when they approve the state's first casinos in 2009. the take was 820 one million dollars last year so brian

miller, what does this mean? >> you could apply the rule of budgeters being overly optimistic to anything within federal, local or state budgets. what it means really is you are going to have an issue because of these overly aggressive assumptions. another example, online gaming is a relatively new phenomenon. there are three state in the u.s. that have it legalize. new jersey is the largest state. the chris christie administration's budget for fiscal year 2014 which ends in june assumed online gaming would generate $1.2 billion revenue and that would be taxed at 15%. in reality over the same period of time online gaming is scaling to look like it is going to be about $100 million business the u.n. looking at 7% to 8% of their projection. just one example of where governments are overly

optimistic in what they assumed going into this. >> host: what games are profitable and to is profiting? >> guest: at the bottom line everything is profitable. the way the gambling industry works is whether you are playing slot machines which are the most popular form of gambling in the united states or table games, black jack or roulette statistically the casino is going in the long term to take a certain amount of money. for slots anywhere between 8% and 12% of your money so if you gamble $100 over time the casino will take $10 for table games, $15 to $20. they make money on an ongoing basis regardless of what is happening. the issue comes in going back to the fixed cost structure and having too much supply. i you doing enough business to cover your costs and be profitable? as far as who is in the mix is an interesting consortium of some very large public

companies, two that would be well known to the audience are caesar's entertainment who had 53 resorts around united states, a large presence on the las vegas strip but many casinos in atlantic city and other regional markets. another one which is quite well known is mgm resorts' in the las vegas strip, they have casinos in detroit, michigan and in the southeastern u.s. mississippi but then smaller companies that many smaller regional companies that are public entities and you see private companies own by a very local groups in a specific area and they have one casino and that doesn't even touch on the native american tribes. you also have to think about 430 native american casinos interspersed around united states as well. >> host: how are public casinos regulated, how are native american casinos regulated? >> for the public is seen as it is a state's rights issue although there are one or two

federal seems that come in to play. legalize and regulated on a state-by-state basis of for example if you were in las vegas any casino is regulated by the gambling control board which is based in nevada and they are not subject to laws in other states. other than nevada telling them if they do not abide by laws in states like new jersey their licences could be revoked in nevada as well. as far as tribal gaming goes each tribal casino is regulated by the tribe, those different sovereign land and sometimes you run into issues, if you are an investor in one of those casinos if you give money to the casino or the tried to build a casino and they fall financially, you may not have recourse. it becomes a very interesting mix because you are no longer dealing with state, local or federal government but just the tribe. >> host: here is a question on twitter. what is gaming and how is that

different from gambling? >> that is a good question. gaming is best defined as a term used by the industry itself, if you go to a casino, you are gambling. you are a gambler. is best buy saying those are more or less anonymous. >> looking at live coverage the center for strategic and international studies hosts a discussion on iraq's upcoming parliamentary election on c-span at 2:00 eastern. at 5:00 eastern c-span will be live at the atlantic council as they discuss the foreign policy of russian president vladimir putin. tonight on booktv and prime-time on c-span2 books on exploring the american. we start at 8:00 eastern with peter stock with the story of john jacob astor, then the interview with philippe oresto,

and is in exports, the life of z zebulon pike. >> more and more into our environment, some technologies disagree on this but i personally consider the smart phones will carry around with us, 70% of the american population considers a trademark example of the internet of things. we are becoming human censors because we are all carrying an extremely powerful computers in our pocket but it takes the form of different centers that exist in the physical world, the form of radio frequency identification readers that we pass underneath when we access easy pass on the new jersey turnpike. it takes the form of whether sensors that are all around us. surveillance cameras collect data and send us somewhere else. this is part of the internet of things, the embedding of

computers into the real world. >> the deputy editor of the futurist magazine patrick tucker on a world that anticipate your every move saturday night at:00 eastern and sunday night at 9:00 and online our book club selection is the wrong war. read the book and join the discussion at booktv.org and live sunday, may 4th look for the next in depth guest, louis rodriguez, former gang member turned author and poet, his work in prudence's on gang life, always running, and his 2011 release it calls you back. >> white house senior nutrition policy adviser sam katz said the first lady's let's move initiative to combat child obesity and promote healthy eating is making great progress. he is one of the featured speakers yesterday at the consumer federation of the food

policy conference. >> we are honored to have a senior policy adviser for nutrition policy at the white house. serves as executive director for let's move leading a healthier generation of children. and helps plan the white house vegetable garden folks got to see yesterday. and so we could have gotten through from that island, and figure that out for next year. sam has agreed to sit down with a stellar reporter at the associated press who covers everything food policy related. i will turn it over to mary clare. >> and before you come to the white house how you'd be interested in a policy dispute. any intersection with politics, or did you before you took to the white house? >> absolutely. you can't show up at the white house and then get interested in

politics. it really started very early on in my cooking career where when i was training, you started, the actual story that really rocked me was training in vienna and making a rhubarb, a sioux chef, he said okay, he called me yankee, it was in vienna. i was the yankee and he said rhubarbs and then get a bunch of butter and blend it and make a shot. i took this huge amount of butter and looked and said a lot of butter. okay, so i took another thing of butter and brought it in and he used profanity which i won't repeat, i set a lot of butter and he took this huge thing and put it in and blended it and he is one of my dearest friends and one of the best chefs of i ever worked with.

he said to me if the guest walked out, they ask me to make the food taste good. and started me on the path of asking questions and what the implications of what i am cooking and putting in my food have on the people i am serving. it doesn't take long to look around and realize it is a huge impact on people's health and lives and well-being. and to the other side of the kitchen the farmers bringing in all of our meat and vegetables etc.. then you start asking a simple question about where it is coming from, what are the implications on their community, lives, land. once you start asking questions, said that happened the first

year started cooking. >> wendy you need the obamas? when did this happen? >> the obamas laid-back in high school, i was out in the world traveling, i came back after training and traveling, got reconnect did as the campaign started. i started helping them out of little bit. got some extra report, the first lady, then the show but not the first lady and the president were up traveling and it sort of went from there. this is an issue she cared about as a mom and engage in community health for long time. >> what is your first reaction when they asked who won the election. did you think you would be cooking more or be this involved

in politics? >> what it meant that he would want, we had dreamed, we dreamed of a number of different things we could do if we ever were to get there. and really showcase food where it comes from or how it is grown, the risk involved, the challenges and want to see how that plays and how people responded to it and if we knew that if it went well the first lady wanted to take on childhood health as a key issue. we had no idea how it was going to go. it turns out pretty well. >> what about early discussions,

what were the early facets of what you guys are going to do and what you were going to accomplish. what did it look like? >> so i think it is always important to the first lady, what drove everything. it was always founded in her authenticity as a mom and deep love and care for all kids. i don't know if anyone had the chance to see her around young people no matter where she is, stopped everything, and she really cares not only about her own children but all children. that really grounded all the thinking in to what does this mean for kids and families and make sure anything we do, everything we do is trying to make it easier for kids and families to make better choices

and live healthier lives. core was always results, she is not interested at all. nice pictures and to feed things like deliverables we think will have a real impact on the country and help families grounding for us. and work through what we saw were the areas. and the exposition 2 impact. and knowing it was a tough issue, more complicated and controversial than it is now, but one that was of vital importance to the future of the country but not knowing how it is going to go. >> we're four five years later with this incredible interest,

conversation going under. what do you make of that? are we and a cultural moment? we look at cultural media to see everyone is talking about it. >> the country, the country has been undergoing a pretty massive cultural shift for some time now. .. it's like there's a tense of thousands, how's that come including a white house beer which i put up against any of those other beers.

which we grew at home in which we grew in the white house but really inspired by sort of this great awakening in food, and our food culture that's happening everywhere. community gardens report just came out, community gardens are up over the last five years from 1 million to 3 million. millennials are gardening 63% more than they did five years ago. about one-third of the country now has a garden in their home. you just see this playing all kinds of interesting ways. sometimes when you're in the middle of it it's hard to realize you're in the middle of tha movement. i think that's exactly what's happened. spent how much do you think the white house has influenced this movement? do you think this would've happened absent this administration or do you think you guys have -- >> that's a setup question right there. there's no good answer to that one. look, i think people have been working on this issue for decades and have been making

some progress and certainly laying foundations for, you know, more and more leadership at every level, both in the white house on down. there is no question that the first lady and this administration has had a major influence, a major impact on these issues. you can change a country as one person. for every history lesson where you talk about one person, there was tens of thousands of people that were, ma if not millions, changing the country and communities all over the country. that's happening here, too. some of the work that's going on at the local of a, things that happened local of all our incredible. chicago's chicken, you can of chickens in chicago now. like it, what? the thought of that as a kid from chicago, you couldn't even imagine. it wasn't even on anybody's radar screen when i was a kid.

so it's everybody, but the first lady's leadership has been i think quite important in a couple of areas. one, she's been able to create a space where she's been able to create a constructive space where a lot of different perspectives and aspects of the issue, different groups and different angles can have a stake in the initiative and have a stake in progress. and i think that's been very helpful in actually allowing people to move forward on all corners of the issue. because this stuff is complicated. >> you are the first chef to take on a policy role in the white house. how does that influence things? did you find yourself in meetings sort of reacting differently than some of the more seasoned politicians who are making a lot of these decisions?

>> not really. i think the one thing that it does remind me though, i think the one time, at times where my chef hat is on in these discussions is remembering that, you know, all the policies and the standards that we create have to ultimately taste good. particularly when it comes to schools. but that's true for the whole movement. if what we are driving towards doesn't taste good, and i mean that both literally and figuratively, we are not going to be successful, and particularly when it comes to kids, just like that of us would eat something that doesn't taste good. neither will our kids. so i think there's times where it's important to remember that ultimately all the work we're doing is upon somebody's plate and they've got to beat it. and making sure we keep that sort of close to heart as all of those work on these issues is

important. besides that sort of narrow lens, you know, not really, but i do appreciate the role that food plays in our culture and how we understand ourselves, you know, who we are usually defined by what we eat. and keeping that understanding i think it's quite important when we think about strategies, language and how we communicate because this is a very deep and personal, these are deep and personal issues for people, and how do you help support people who make different choices, as implications but who we are as a country. i think that's also something board but i think a lot of people understand that. >> let's do a status update on let's move!. where are you guys in the trajectory of where you want to be on let's move!? what you want to do is cooking

at home which i'm interested because i have two little kids and i've no time to cook ever so how you guys going to tackle that and help families with a? >> you know, i think we're in an incredible place. i've never felt as much momentum since we've been here. i think change is starting to move, you know, exponentially faster. more and more groups, organizations, local leaders are really starting to engage in certain ways i have not seen before. we are making huge progress. the working schools -- the work in schools has been transformative. we sell a lot more work to do to finish the implementation process, but we can get into more in schools i'm sure. you know, the work on providing that information, the proposal from fda, which i'm sure we'll

get more into hi enemy is big. we done tremendous progress in marketing, issues around marketing to kids, and just marketing healthier products better come something that we should definitely talk more about. so i think, you, and we are certain to see results. we're starting to see numbers as shipped, and a number of different surveys, we've got a long, long, long way to go, but i think you're seeing the impact but if you look at let's move! when the first lady launched, she said that a child born today for kids born today they will reach adulthood healthy. that's the goal. so in that regard we are toddlers. we are four years old. and for the population we are doing really well. with 14,000 childcare centers that are purchased many, which are making sure there's no sugary drinks served, only juice and water, no fried food.

foods and vegetables -- fruits and vegetables for snack. not too much screen time. so we have made tremendous progress there, made improvements to the wic program adding fruits and vegetables, nice aground of additional money for fruits and vegetables. so we're getting our kids off to a much that or start. still work to do but we've made some huge inroads. but now those kids are going to enter kindergarten and the work in schools to make sure they're much healthier environment is well under way. and onto the building would look that is okay, that kid is not going to go to school, we will get into that more but also what then happens after school and that critical gap for lots of things, not just nutrition and health, but certainly that is a part of it. so we've worked with the ymca, boys and girls club, parks and

rec association to make sure that the foods that are being served in afterschool programs and the amount of activity they're getting is really going to help support and foster their health. so you know, the whole arc of a child's day is getting much healthier. and now we get home and that's where cooking comes in. >> how are you going is to sure how you guys going to measure success? there was impossibly positive child obesity numbers. are you guys measuring this in any way? is there a way, anything real measurements of how much impact you guys are having? >> yeah. i think, health outcomes are going to be the ultimate measure. the obesity statistics are one very major metric that we will know we've been successful when we start seeing those numbers. >> is that necessarily government that's helping that, or is that environment? do you think the government has had an influence on that?

>> absolutely. no question. here's the thing. it is never going to be one reason that we see, that we solve this problem. no one entity, no one law, no one anything is going to solve the challenge of creating a food environment and a landscape that makes it easier, makes it not just easier, makes it easy to be healthy. so it's going to take the work of everybody and it is taking the work of everybody. but ultimately, we are a part of that, and so i think ultimately the health outcomes and the obesity rates are under the metric but there's a lot of other indicators we are looking at to see are we on track, are we making progress. those are things we look at a lot of the consumption patterns, things like fruits and vegetables consumption, sugary beverage consumption which blubbering.

water consumption just this last year we gained the number one spot for the first time in decades as the most consumed a drink on which is a big deal and really indicative of a shift that's under way. a few years ago fruits and vegetables consumption was up in a year during the economy people were not expecting that. so we are seeing those kinds of chefs, restaurants are seeing shifts about what's been sold on their menus. so those are indicators that the messaging that we and everybody is getting out, using tools like my plate, and many others, are starting to penetrate and people are starting to make better choices spent let's talk about some of the criticism of let's move! >> sure. >> sarah palin has probably been your most famous critic, but there's a lot of people in congress who talk about this and call it a nanny state. as the "washington post" called you guys yesterday the trans fat, let's move! loving white house. how whit white house. how do response but that doesn't sound like a criticism to me.

they just want some of our honey. that's the thing. this is delicious honey. >> i bet it is. >> hardware respond to that? look, i'm not responding to sarah palin. i was very happy when i heard that. that was good. that's an indicator that we're on the right track. and you know look, i think debate, discourse and criticism is all part of it, and i honestly feel like it was, i've always taken it as an indicator that we're having an impact. we are making a lot of progress because if we're not, nobody will criticize us. i think these are tough, public and issues, and it is aligned and there is a balance between what is the appropriate role for government in nutrition and food issues. obviously, the government has always been engaged in

agriculture, nutrition, food policy from the very beginning. there's nothing new in terms of that engagement. there's a critical role to play. ultimately, though people have to make choices for themselves and that's how it should be and that's how it always will be. and so the continued debate about the balance is healthy and good. the first lady is never, she's always said it's about choice and moderation. and that, you know, her whole message has always been if you are eating well during the week and you want to have a double cheeseburger on the weekend, great, have some birthday dashed and your kids should have birthday cake and everything twice about it. that's right, but if you have in birthday cake every night and you're having a double cheeseburger every day, which a lot of people are, that's why we're running into such serious trouble. i think that's the role to help nudge in a different direction. >> what about the other side?

you have critics on the other side of the spectrum is that you're not going far enough, you're working with industry too much and you're kowtowing to them. what your response on that side of the spectrum? >> also another indication we're on the right path. if you are further on the other side of them, then you know you probably might be in the name he's on -- nannies on. book, on that side of the issue they have a deep sense of urgency to change. they see what's at stake. they see young people on track to deal with really severe health problems, taking huge economic toll, huge toll on her health care system, et cetera. so i share that sense of urgency and i think it's important to have voices that, you know, are trying to speed up the progress.

so i'm all for that, even though sometimes be aske task is way bd reason, that's okay. the part about the industry peace, that's always a bit puzzling to me. the notion that we could somehow change the way we are eating and make the food healthier without working with the people who are feeding everybody seems to me, it just doesn't make any sense to me. we don't have a chance. i think there's new systems that need to be built and are being built. healthier systems, but people are also beating all of food that they are eating. the notion that so we're just going to ignore, like what everybody is eating, or that there's also this underlying a soldier that somehow we could just like get rid of everything and change it just like that. it just doesn't work like that. so that part, people have their cynicism and part of it is

justified, but it is the world we're in. we are just doing everything we can to move to a better place. >> was there a purposeful ship to working with industry? started out with child nutrition and some of the more government type solutions, but then you guys evolves over the into working more and more with industry, wal-mart, the grocery manufacturers association. you think that was an evolution of let's move!? >> it was more of a strategic coming you know, evolution, not to shift the the sense that we knew that first and foremost we need to address the schools, child nutrition was not right when we started let's move! as our big focus in the beginning was getting a great build done which was very hard and almost didn't happen. right, kevin? kevin who did a huge part of that success we owe together and.

and that which is priority number one. and so as we got that done and we started to then work on those rules, the next focus was ensuring that all parents had access to healthy and affordable food. so when you shift from our schools and his are focusing on this, it wasn't like let's just because want to start with with entity, we shifted because that was a pressing issue for so many families. and we really needed to tackle it. to tackle the issue there's no way to tackle both access and affordability and what's in stores without working with the people who have the stores. so you obviously can start working with them more. but the first lady has always said that anybody who is serious about becoming part of the solution, that we can have measurable, meaningful impacts, that we think is going to really support families have a seat at

the table and its place in let's move!, and i think that's how we, you know, strove to execute. >> so when you guys are starting out, did you expect these issues to be so political and controversial and come up in campaigns? is that something you thought from the start? >> yes. [laughter] i mean, these issues are as political as they. i think, i think on some levels though they're becoming depoliticized finishing way. they both have maintained parts in certain areas but other parts of it have sort of become less politicized. for example, like my plate. i mean, you know, if you look at the history of the pyramid and then you look at my plate, we said things like the messages are enjoyed your food to eat less. the first time the government

has said eat less. drink water, not sugary beverages. consume less sodium. fill half your plates with fruits and vegetables. and we just did that and there was no, i wasn't when the pyramid was done. i've read all the books on it but, you know, it was a completely nonpolitical process and it was based on the dietary guidelines, the recommendations that were there. we translated those into simple actual points and that was kind of it. we did the best, we did what we thought was best for consumers, carried them with no meddling or influence. that seem to me like a small thing maybe but it's a huge shift compared to where this issue was five or 10 years ago. in that regard i think some of these things have become bigger than politics. first lady i think one part of what she been able to accomplish is she stayed mostly above the politics of these issues and kept it really just about families. i think that's been a powerful

avenue to move forward. >> i want to run down some of the specific issues. i'm going to start with school lunches. it's hard to believe that there's going to be another reauthorization next year, or do next year. don't know if it will happen next year. it's already been five years, four years. so how could you guys improve on what you've already done, and also i'm sure you're expecting obvious to some people are going to want to cut it in congress but how we respond to that? how can you improve on that? also is the first lady go to be as involved this time around as she was last time around? >> it's really hard to believe it's five years already. we are not done implement in the first one. you know, we made tremendous gains in the last bill, you know, historic gains and this year the healthy snack fooled --

healthy snack food rule will come into effect. we just proposed the school wellness policies which include banning junk food marketing from schools. schools. so you can do so in a school you should build the market to kids in school. that's a major, major breakthrough. so we are still seeing that through. i think first and foremost they key is not going back. there are concerted effort right now to undermine the progress that's been made, and it's quite disappointing and hard to believe that hard to imagine considering that 90% of schools have already met the new school lunch standards that we are seeing just tremendous work all across the country. a gao report just came out and showed that kids are consuming no more fruits and vegetables.

played waste is not up as much as school association would like to tell you. there's just a big divide between national leadership i think on this and what's happening on the local level. and i will hope that our friends on the school attrition side, you know, intended to allow at least the local voices to be heard and to support this great work and not try to roll it back. so that's sort of first and foremost. i think there's some things to build on this progress but i've got to tell you, ma like nutrition, school shows penetration directors, i've said this many times and i'll say it again, i think they are american heroes but i think what they do on a daily basis is beyond belief in terms of their lack of resources, the lack of respect that they deserve in their school, the fact that they have figured out how to implement these new policies quicker than i think we could have ever

dreamed. and they deserve a lot of credit and a lot of our respect and admiration. and i think they key is to seeing this through. there's some ideas percolating. we haven't landed onto what are the things in the next round that will be important but i do know that it would be unacceptable to roll any of this back. >> and do you think the first lady will be as involved? >> i think the first lady, you know, we will see exactly how that plays out in terms of what they need to our but she certainly be out there championing the issue and championing the work thus far in supporting those that are helping to see this through. so this is something that she, she and this work or one in the same. so you're going to see a lot of for. >> let's move on to nutrition facts labels are as a voyeur bob knows the obama admission recent proposed revising them. the labels everybody knows from

the back of the packages. calories are going to be more prominent, some tweeting on serving sizes. added sugar will be on the label for the first time. if this gets finalized. so tell us all of it about a conversation with industry. do you think whether the resistance? do you think, what are they telling you? >> you should ask them that. look, i think our goal has been to create a label, fda goal is to create a label that's simple and easy-to-understand. and he gives the important information in the most, i can look at it, i have a pretty decent sense what i got on this product. and i think we've come, i mean, the label or some combination of the two labels that were proposed and the ultimate really

do that. i think we encourage everybody to comment. because, you know, it is so much more complicated to create a food label then any of you, you would have thought. and to do it, you know, taking into all the statutes and then how you get that information there. you know, i think i'm sure the into she doesn't love all of it, but, you know, they've been supportive. they were supportive of the release of it, and i suspect that they will be supported through because i'm sure that they, too, want to make sure that all families have as much transparent, clear information so they can make the best choices just like the first lady does. so i don't expect too much resistance there. >> i know this is a really coveted issue, but i wonder if you've any thoughts of genetically modified foods. there is so much passion on this

issue right now, and do you think the federal government should be more involved with. >> fda is looking at that and it's definitely contentious and controversial issue, but one that a debate is good. you know, i'm sure, i wrote a way to see what fda does. >> you're not going to make news with those on the news today, okay specs sorry i'm not doing it for you. love you to speak let's move onto trans fats. talk to me about your conversations with industry on that as well. into she has said in response to the phaseout or the proposed phaseout of trans fat that they would like, or some companies have said they would still like to see a little bit of trans fats choose to make it easier for formulation. what's the argument for phasing it out completely? >> so i can see to which about this because fda is reviewing

its i have to be just careful because i don't want to talk about it. look, i think, here's what we know. we know that too much chance that can kill you. this proposal is going to save 6000 lives a year, 20,000 heart attacks. and getting this, the vast majority of artificial, talking about artificial trans fats because there's trans fats in the food. is really important but i think we need to do it in a way that fda will look for a path to do this in a way that doesn't, isn't complete disruptive of our entire system and makes it possible to produce some sort, some kind of product i think. the market place has come a long way ever since we put come fda

put trans fats on the back of the panel. and alternatives are being developed by think the market is going to continue to evolve that needs some more maturity in alternative solutions to this. so there's a balance here to be struck i'm sure that they're looking at but ultimately we know, this is why we took this action is that we've got to get trans fats out of our food, period. you know, as a good friend would say, they generally are recognize as dangerous, and so that's how we are moving forward. but nobody, i don't think anybody on any side would want to do it in a way that makes it impossible for a small bakery to stay in business. i think that's something that needs to be taken into account but ultimately we're going to have a food landscape that doesn't have pho in a. and that's a major success.

you know, the industry should be given credit. they've been supportive of this thus far, hopefully i assume and suspect they will continue to be. but they also recognize that it's time to really take this to the next level spent i know this is fda and will wrap up in a minute, but what about menu labeling? is that someday, i'm not sure how much you guys are going to be involved in that announcement but margaret hamburg has made it can indicate in my becoming this year at least. we've been waiting about for years. is that something we might see soon? do you think it works? >> we will see. i can tell you that before we do it. you know, i'm optimistic that it will be soon. and look, i think giving people clear information to make choices is always a good thing. it is never a bad thing to give people better information.

i think words can mean a lot of think it keep up to make different choices, and to come and we've seen evidence of this, that when restaurants put those numbers on their menus, they have a look at some of those numbers before they put them up and do some reformulation to get some of those calorie counts down. and that is a role that -- just transparency in general plays that the menu labeling won't get the credit that it deserves for those kinds of impacts but we've seen that in different areas and i think, hopefully, you know, we'll see that now. we are hopeful. soon. >> so what happens, second to last question, what happens after the obama's leave? how are you guys going to institutionalize some of his huge effort that