the idea of sacrifice, you know, because you don't know especially if you're the father in that family, what are you going to do if they take away your mortgage, take away your job, how are you going to stand up and be a man? it's tough. >> maybe time for one more question. >> thank you. it's been a great panel. you talked a lot about the way the law and the courts worked in terms of enforcing the civil rights act, but i'm curious if there was ever any kind of truth and reconciliation effort here where people were actually prosecuted in a public way for the abuse, the murders, the tyrannies, and racism, and if not, why not? >> well, yes. there was a series of trials in the 1990s and the early 2000 because murder is a crime

without -- but the murderer of medgar evers, bobby frank cherry, involved in the birmingham church bombing, they were all ultimately brought to justice in a series of striking and horrifying trials in in cases 30 and 40 years after the crimes and not nearly everyone who was responsible for these outrages was brought to justice but there were many people who were brought to justice, and when you say the question about enforcement, one of the striking things that president johnson said on the weekend he signed the bill, he called his old friend, governor john connellly of texas. he said you don't want to talk about enforcing this law. that gets a man's hackles up. you want to be talking about obeying it because that's the right thing to do, and i thought that was a fascinating distinction and one that probably he learned at a very early age. >> we have time for one last question.

>> thank you for taking the question. mr. williams, thank you for the howard university reference, at alumnus, i definitely appreciate that to the entire panel, i'm very deeply -- discussion well-time and worth having. from the middle passage to the slavepan plantations to the civil right moms, i want you all to kind of elaborate on -- compare and contrast the civil rights movement to the 99% movement we see today. >> well, there's a lot there. my book emphasizes what happens between the days dr. king was hot and goes through five episodes, and i think what emerges, particularly in one of my chapters about the humphrey hawkins full employment act of

1978, which was big disappointment to the people who pushed it at the time. but coretta king and others, jesse jackson was actually very prominent live involved in that one -- many people put back the old labor liberal, as the term meant back then, labor liberal, civil rights, grassroots alliance and got people out on the streets not only or dr. king's birthday but on dr. ding's birthday emphatically emphasizing the issue for four or five years until the law was enacted. and everybody said this is just one more piece of the puzzle. dr. king was emphasizing economic justice towards the end of his life. i think it's actually a misconception to think he was only emphasizing it then. way back before he became a public figure he had always seen racial discrimination and poverty and class most of whose

victims today, as back then, were not black or racial minority put -- but were white. and he thought the larger coalition for the larger, deeper, structural issues and was quite clear when he addressed the question in the years before he died that the work had only just begun and that's what my book is about. the humphrey hawkins and other issues. a lot of it focusing on housing, 1968 housing act and subsequent amendments. economic issues, trying to get the coalition back together to work for broader, deeper, structural reform, i think everyone began to see the standard of the revolutionary legislation, the 1964 civil rights act and 1965 voting rights act, was a cruel legacy to have to live up to. they were so -- they restored

the 14th and 15th 15th amendments, and appeared, at least in terms of legal racial discrimination to finish the unfinished business of the civil war and reconstruction. the was a whole lot of other unfinished business. the questions the 99% movement is till to this day grappling win. i don't think you can draw any simple one to one correspondence. that's a changing river with lots of confluences and new sources, springs bubbling up, but i think the people who left the civil rights movement narrowly defined behind, considered those basic issues in broad terms to be part of the unfinished business of the movement, and they never -- for as many victories, often unheralded, that i emphasize afterwards, there were also failures they learned from, and i think they see those broader issues as part of what you're

referring to. >> it's not so we'll remember but the march on washingtonin' 1962 was a march for jobs and freedom and they were linked, and on the night he proposed the bill, john kennedy cited a series of sobering statistics about the differential prospect odd of black and white baby born oregon the same day in the same city, and on questions like life expectancy, health, access to education, the situation is minute better today. on questions of lifetime earning power, income, it's distressingly the same. >> i'm sorry. that's all the time we have for today. i would like to thank our panelists for fascinating discussion. [applause] >> thanks to all of you for coming. >> on our next washington journal, a conversation on efforts to reduce noter u.s. cities. our guest is robert woodson of the center for neighborhood enterprise. then steve bell of the bipartisan policy center will

talk bat new initiative aimed to help with retirement savings planning. next month is the 60th 60th anniversary of the supreme court's brown v. board of education division. we'll be joined by nicole jones, who wrote an article about when she calls the resegregating of some schools. you can join the conversation by phone or an facebook, and twitter. washington journal, live each morning at 7:00 eastern on c-span. >> i remember on saturday the first conversation i had with a group of people at that table with the 2 on it, wasn't about where you're from, what is your school like but about ukraine. it was about politics, about our belief in education and religion and how -- after that moment i was like, wow, this is going be intense. but it's been really dollar see the evolution of our friendships and our bonds, from just talking about politics and talking about our experiences, what we

learned, would we have met and this is an experience i'll never, ever forget. >> always been kind of cynical about it. i can never really go that far in politics and politics is such a caustic environment but throughout the week, different speakers and different people i've met have chippedway at that position and maybe i want to make a difference and run for something local, because like president obama said yesterday lexer told us, don't get cynical because this nation didn't need anymore cynical people. that's not going to help us relieve the problems we have. >> one of the things that gets brought up is our social media. we're able to express our opinions very easily. we can just send a tweet what we think, and i think that starts conversations, and we like to talk a lot, so there's conversations, social media, and we just like to get our opinions out there. >> i think this whole week has

been about learning. i come from a small town where it's very politically homo generallic, and there's not much chance for people who don't think the same to get their opinions owl without being red called and, being here with the other delegates has given me an opportunity to learn other viewpoints and to also get my ideas out without the fear of being shunned for thinking differently. >> high school students from across the country discuss their participation in the u.s. senate youth program. a week-long government and leadership education program held annualfully washington. sunday night at 8:00 on c-span's q & a. >> in his book, down to the crossroadses, aram god good suzean talks bet the first african-american to -- this is an hour.

>> aram. what a pleasure to be here today to talk about your book. i looked at the cover and was intrigued by it. some say you can't judge a become by its cover. let's start by judging this book by its cover. tell me about the cover can. >> guest: thank you, rich. thank you for having me. so, it was actually quite a struggle to pick the perfect image. it's a picture from the last day of the mentioner june 26, 1966, as leaders lead the final leg of the meredith march into jackson, mississippi, and kind of a struggle to pick the right picture because you want to capture the sweep of the march, its human element, the many, many people part of this long three-week civil rights demonstrates. and you want to make sure to highlight key figures, the main leaders and that included martin luther king, stokley car michael

-- carmichael, and the man who start the whole thing, james meredith, and this image was lucky enough to capture all three of those and the whole sweep of matchers. >> host: faction. tell us about the march you're referring to tell us about the title of the book and how you chose it. >> guest: sure. the title is "down the crossroadses: civil rights, black power, and the mary dirt march against fear." in the three weeks of the march you can make an argument the civil rights movement transforms and approaches its crossroads. the call for black power is first heard. stokley carmichael unveils the slogan in the march and generates controversy, it immediately generates a great swelling of enthusiasm many mean local black people and ignites a new direction of black politics. now, those changes might have

happened over the course of time anyway but what the meredith march did was dramatize the shift because it brought together civil rights leaders and regular people, white and black, from all across the country and put them in a laboratory of black politics as it moves through mississippi and created dramatic moment that highlighted key divisions and key tensions but also some of the key strengths that had long animated the civil rights movement. >> speaking of dramatizing the march, a lot of people of my generation, especially black people, our parents will sea you into be grateful for this. we marched and then we tease them behind their back and call them bunions narrative. they're always complaining about the bunons they have. marching for things we enjoy now. take us there. for people who weren't there, what was it like? this march on civil rights marchs in general. >> guest: just the pure physical act of marching, one of the marchers talked about how sort

of status symbol of a real marcher was ventilated tennis shoes. they had holes in their tennis shoes. and you're talking about june in mississippi, on a hot, open highway, so just the physical rigor of being part of this march. marching from eight to 15-miles in a day and some die-hards did it for most of the three weeks. so if you want to talk about the physical aspects i it could be riggous. mix that in with camping at night and dealing with the fears about possible attacks from hostile whites, mixed in the many demonstrations held along the way, rallies for voter registration. and then mix in the violence they encountered. especially in philadelphia, mississippi, and you have a whole host of dramatic moments gina these dramatic moments folks tend to be familiar with

the selma march on the bridge. best march -- this march in particular, how did it begin? >> guest: it's a awe instinct store and begins in the minds and actions of one manned, james meredith. he is famous for integrating the university of mississippi in 1962, causing the so-called ole miss crith, the first african-american to attend this bastion of white privilege, led to severe resistance from white authorities, prompted a constitutional crisis for the kennedy administration to call in the national guard after not doing so at first. a great riot, two people died, and meredith spent two years in ole miss and faced incredible hardship, unconstant protection from federal marshals and mach of that began in his mind. a very singular individual man. he wasn't someone who has associated himself with a larger movement but he was a very

determined to try to combat institutions of white supremacy. but of ole miss, meredith drifts off the rave dar screen and struggles to find his place in the larger struggle. spends time in washington, dc. accepteds a fellowship to nigeria, that he abandons every one year. enrolls in columbia law school but has an eye on a larger political career. ...

spec. >> on the second day of the march she has just come in your hand down mississippi mississippi, he left the office the day before and he gets the nice warm reception who say they will register to vote and he tells stories of old african-american men that were so intimidated for so long but now standing up

he said you can follow me but you have to be a man with the hierarchal view and you have to be independent. we will not impose a and then these people vulnerable. independent, willing to move in small groups. so it did not invite matt -- mass registration call these civil-rights organizations

almost like the chance to replicate the previous year's. >> host: meredith did not die? >> guest: he was wounded. when he was shot there was a misinterpretation there was a bulletin that he died and caused even more hysteria. he was wounded and he recuperated for most of on dash most of the margin people were marching in his name. it was a blessing but he accepts that then he is frustrated because it has diverged from his vision and that a mass march she did not want it was centered around him in lots of media attention.

>> host: part of what i love of the book are the personalities a racially steve and personalities and besides meredith the two that come to mind are stokely carmichael and martin luther king. what was there participation? >> i see them as the three central characters. and carmichael sees it as a unique opportunity as a new chairman of the student nonviolent coordinating committee for sncc founded by young students to push the civil-rights establishment questioning who they are as an organization. for a very slow pace if

there is action past but is not forced and they see johnson as the enemy not the allied. they don't care anymore about appealing to the national conscience but are much more concerned with a grass-roots organizers of say don't define themselves by the mass march in a more. when he shot he recognizes an opportunity because sncc has done the most organizing especially the mississippi delta of into largest communities where sncc has a lot of local connections. it is a chance at the same

time to showcase the new direction not the key is unknown it catapults into a local celebrity by the end considering the air to malcolm x. especially charismatic he has a gift to talk to local people to connect to so many different audiences whether harlem or mississippi delta. he is charismatic, powerful and provocative he makes a rhetorical point even when pushed and pushed cleverly stubborn. concerned with uplifting black people not to appease even the liberals for pcs

as the uncertain ally. >> host: that is what animates the power. >> the other main character martin luther king is the moral center. without him is not the march it is his presence those who just want to see martin luther king and also draws national media attention and sncc realizes if we take king out we need him for the attention imperforate. if he is called the multiple directions. he constantly on one level tries to articulate the discontent but he tries to craft into his larger language of the non-violent

action integration çl1z of america. to do so constantly using his rhetorical gifts to merge these messages to find this unity by the end of the march it is a wine did nine dash to wine still on it is called a mistake. >> host: why did he call it a mistake? >> guest: it is to the end and he has gone to extraordinary trials. the marchers had just gone to philadelphia. exactly at the two-year civil rights murders of course, was of large story in 1964. is actually off the main route but disney the

political opportunity survey ally with local black leadership in the currency. but because they're off the route they get less protection from the state police. some of whom had been directly involved under federal of instigation for the murders two years earlier. they are not sympathetic. people come through things that them through a cherry bombs and gunshots as they finish the rally people throw rocks at them. one marcher has the epileptic seizure and they develop the medical truck near him they just mocked him. it was a stressful situation

and it could have descended into far worse but then they can get back into the community. but king said that was the most scared he had ever been. by the time he got backed to the delta there was a large rally and some of the speakers from the deacons for defense or sncc were using very provocative rhetoric and king was trying to pull back to the core principles of the moving speech they could not get out the guns because he would see a brighter future. he saw the day coming in mississippi. but he was so worn down to

bring everyone under his arms that with these organizations like sncc. >> host: what was the other seminal moments during the march? >>. >> guest: just a few days later. just a few days before the end of the march the state of mississippi is not adequately protecting we need federal presence. personnel you name it we need the federal debt for mayor.

he had seen urban riots in there is a bay controversy over the of moynihan's report that was dignified -- stigmatize with the black backlash against that and groups like sncc becoming the enemy instead of the allies so johnson was keeping his distance. so he refuses to have any federal presence. that gives the governor of mississippi to use carte blanche he was using police to protect them but now he knows there is not federal intervention so the marchers have made a point to set up a big tent and stay on the land of the black community. it is public because black people pay taxes to.

we have a right to use this land. the white authorities said they can't but they do it anyway but they let them do it to avoid the controversy but now close to the end there was 1,000 people purchase a paving in the last demonstration. they come to the ball field at the elementary school in the black community where they will put their tents although the police already arrested in advance. now they come not in right here and it launched tear gas into the crowd. not just to push people off

but they launch them directly into the crowd to punish them as a smoke rises they pull their hair or kick them were dragged into you ditches and it is chaotic them practically dark. it was as harrowing violence that existed within the movement because it is dark and smoky in the photographers are running there are no iconic images. because it does mike get the support of the federal government because even after that the response was lukewarm. we are sorry. then it disappears from popular memory and it does not have the same residence as bloody sunday. >> host: that brings me back to the cover how images make history and what does

not get lost. >> what you just described to but culturally at that time right over seven, johnny cash, elvis, what is going on in the psychology of white america? hour they responding to this march? >> guest: for liberal whites the shooting of mayor distributers our rage in the jim crow south as another example of violent retribution. there are editorials in the newspapers that condemn the violence some of the documents people riding talking about their own ideas and feelings asking for advice.

it is great liberal guilt but the civil-rights movement has been a major news story in american life the past five or six years in to some extent the march continues that liberal track by the same token because of the of what to write it or the controversy over the moynihan report we see the language of backlash the phrase starting to develop as a buzzword that some whites are alienated and blacks are moving too fast as has achieved what it has an neece to slow down which tuesday exact opposite of black activists. so there are plenty of white smirches people say we will join this people often affiliated with religious of catholic or jewish americans

are longtime activists. especially the civil-rights experience. it could be there own experience they decided they would come and maybe just spent a couple of days. it is hard to characterize white america but you do see the whole spectrum from those who embrace the notion there are so far rise activists who say we have been fighting for black power all along. there are other liberal rights used to restart to drift away in terms of the non-violent action and integration. that it is irrelevant. but black people need to achieve power. and then you have a growing

voice of more and more conservatives seeing it to move too fast as a vast expansion of liberal programs that would elect like reagan to the governorship at the same time. >> host: that is a fascinating glimpse of the mindset that allows a backlash. and dealing with it to some extent with illegal aliens of racial codes that help conservative politicians nationally with the backlash but tell us before we go to break what inspired you to write the book? of all the episodes of post-world war and civil rights what inspired you?

>> teaching. i had written books that dealt with african american history but but not a political history the being the graduate seminars in all the perspectives beyond the story of one demonstration. in by the same token not the accessible narrative history to capture these ideas as the great opportunity to tell a broader story. with the march from a kiss to jackson but it shoots off in summer and the directions to tell us what the movement was. that i saw it as a key way.

a friend called me from of bookstore in new york. want to read a book about the civil rights. what should i read? it was hard to answer. biography, a textbook but not one book that did what only person would want to read. so you could argue this book is my answer to his questions. >> host: that is brilliant. always write the book he would have liked to have read. that is an inspiration. we will be back. >> independent scientist son said gene that produces an allergen this you could have any the allergic reaction

from eating the corn but the process of genetic engineering created us which of that gene and 43 heather's. and with the a sevenfold increase of the known allergy and. this was the background side effect of engineering to create the core that we eat. >> here at the world health organization european state the authority, as julia, are all of these part of the conspiracy to it is just suddenly and covered? if that is not enough here are a bunch of other organizations with scientific sounding names but protective organizations.

in europe and australia and all over the world the epa which we pay attention to to global warming or something like that, they say does not pose a reasonable risk and i could come up with dozens.

>> host: i would want to ask you about the title "down to the crossroads" as the physical play is but symbolic in history. how does this march marked a historical crossroads? >> guest: in a lot of ways is the civil rights movement that mostly still associated with the tenets of nonviolence and racial integration. under neece fact says simmering current with grass-roots organizers that is about putting blacks in positions of power where they can lift themselves up. those goals can be intertwined.

of march of crossroads because of the slogan of black power that launches a new generation of activists. it is that had been out there and crystallized. both an outgrowth in dick rose said of the civil-rights movement to those to always have political power in their own communities. it grows at of frustrations with the federal government and liberal allies who don't necessarily see themselves on the same page but also grows out of disenchantment and the rejection of

nonviolence as the strategy not that it was violent evolution but the right to self-defense if you want to be seen an equal footing you should be able to defend yourself. and also working within the established political parties. stokely carmichael comes to the march organizing in alabama and independent third-party because the choices were not integrating into the republican party and deborah? we're white supremacists so why a integrate into one that was hostile to your interest? so create your own party. to organize those that is black power use that as the independent force. >> host: that element is a chicken and the a cow

intentional is he saying here is the march as a platform to amplify a that but cover message dirty was frustrated with the march? >> he came for sure with the ada and the message and the slogan of black power. soon after the shooting of meredith he goes to talk about the governing body why they should participate and among the arguments it can save platform to advertise our direction of black power. he uses the slogan even before the famous rally but not as the chance what do we want? black power. not intel midway through the march. advanced organizers say this

is the best place use the slogan to capture the national mood and it is used in that way. it immediately becomes a controversy in many remember the news that night when black power was used and it blew their mind. and has the element of a new direction. with the symbolic value the home of the blues and robert johnson sold his soul at the crossroads to is the devil were you make choices. so you come to a fork in the road toward a crossroads have you travel down the road.

>> what is the fate of black power it does not have a single definition but the responses of those you view it. for many liberals and conservatives alike they thought it as a betrayal. they did not understand the thrust but it does have consequences there really emphasizes the points you stirred to ca black officeholders, mayors, sheri ffs, political power occurring in the south and in the north and that depends on the notion of black unity or officials looking for black interest and people associate that

with black power also when cultural terms. if it to encompasses the ada to take pride in your appearance or identity. that could be the most enduring legacy of black history as an aspect of american history. paris is shooting office so many directions with a unifying message also alienating a constructive slocum also a destructive slogan. it is complex. >> host: absolutely. that is fascinating. one of the things that struck me is the third physical quality there is a sense of motion how did you researched the book?

>> guest: i saw early on the basic structure. it has a natural structure than a move sand stories along the way and its end so it is like a biography. and within that there is all sorts of stories to tell. but what developed is with each chapter that was an opportunity to talk about another dimension. that care is made the opportunity to talk about with in mississippi with them but politics those who want to ally with the whites into democratic party also of the mississippi freedom

party that the same time running in the primaries as well so when they get to grenada they put the american flag on top of the confederate soldier the white sees that as a desecration. that gave me the opportunity of the vision of the civil war how they still animates the different identities in then they talk about black power when they get toots' jackson at the end of the march. the largest demonstration in history of mississippi. least 15,000 but us a national media says there were divisions but it was the moment so it gave the

opportunity to talk about the difference seems as there is a dynamic quality but to get back to your question highlight research the abundant media coverage national papers and newspapers magazines and the texas civil rights organizations keep their correspondence that could be found there was all under surveillance. mississippi highway patrol and mississippi state sovereignty commission with the express purpose had to preserve public relations and it also included

surveillance part of this circle reporting back as informant expert rider know who that is but he/she produced the meetings of civil rights leaders during the march. that was a complex source because you have to read it through the officials can even make up stuff but it is an important source just the different ways it was watched. the last major aspect of research was talking to people of the march i talk to about 100 people who were involved. that brought to the story was a human connection not just a national story about political conflicts or ideas but actual physical participation, a coming of

age or the unique experience or a tragic event disappointing experience to bring up those gave my story that's extra layer that makes it resonates. >> to talk about the experience? limit just about everybody was more than happy. i talked about it with a veteran's organization especially the organizers to have a long view it is important but the longer experience and continues to the present day. it is a larger context and how black power is before or after the march they would

work for. so they defeated the national story. white activists again part gave a chance to talk to people from different perspectives. those that would agree to an end to beyond of liberal side it if they did what we were working for but sometimes you just need to the people you should talk to this person or this person so just regular people who decided to attend and it was a formative experience to meet margin luther king and stokely carmichael and now they see themselves with the possibility. the whole point to shape your mind didn't think about what paul -- possibilities exist for the future. >> host: with that time continuum what is your

opinion on one of the major civil rights movements today? >> the biggest in our lifetime is for a lgbt quality. think about where that movement was over the past 20 years a genetic transformation of. if you told me in 1995 most of the american population woodsy gay marriage as the implicit right that is obvious and should have been input have blown our mind. is starts where it was a radical notion to legalize but now mainstream. has not followed the same tactics nor should it. popular culture in particular hopes to shape it

but think about the radical change of notion and possibilities compared to the civil-rights movement. >> issues on voting and structural inequality sent to talk about that in december and the lgbt movement, what has changed and what lessons are cleaned from the past with this march in particular? >> talk about the movement from the quality it was most successful was folding into basic citizenship rights to destroy the institutions to guarantee access but the march was very important for

martin luther king evolution to think of the structures at the same time he was about to launch a major campaign in chicago and talk about the northern city you have the issues of race and class. then in mississippi it is the personal firsthand connection to the plight of poor black americans. that deep is the understanding. and then to create to the conversation that is a great tragedy that some of the way is controversy of black power or the press and he could never shift that conversation into that larger issue. obviously issues are intertwined to day with a criminal justice system and

i talk about of little bit in the epilogue to follow the main characters. and where a mississippi remains the long road to freedom is the slogan that merit is used is of the long -- beginning. and even now there is a longer road to freedom because clearly those divisions are still very strong. >> host: to be perfectly honest i don't care about your own ethnicity to read the book for five of your expertise but i am sure your viewers are wondering. did that shape your living in the south toward doing further research? >> guest: interesting question. i am armenian that is mine

heritage and moving to the south with of relatively small armenian community the people that i have met that have never met the are median before. where are you from? boston. where are you from? especially if i was teaching a course of african-american history but is has is fed into the interest of history because i think i got into history for two reasons. it answers fundamental questions about what it means to be an american. and maybe that is tied to my experience. but i love the stories. african-american history i consider myself a storyteller.

i think it provides a dimension that i find fascinating. >> host: that is an interesting with your writing and research of the book. did people ask you? >> guest: sometimes. more often i teach a course it deals with african-american history so to teach that the majority of students are african-american so they are curious. so they did not understand why would you want to you teach it? it is not your history i say it is everyone's it history because we helped to shape the world. so i come at it from that brodeur narrative and perspective. it is not the only way to right dip but just my perspective.

>> host: in terms of informing your perspective what historians would you recommend everyone reading us a truly provocative and rebel historian? >> i can focus that with the civil-rights movement if you want to read the more expansive works there is of volume by a taylor branch. and put it is the much broader story began he does a wonderful job to paint the broad sweep 1954 through the classic years. for academic historians may also try to push the movement in different directions. with the mississippi civil-rights movement

shaping the whole future is one name charles dimmer than to the then of the civil rights in mississippi when you tell that story does not follow king. he is not the main story so dating back to the 20's and 30's he talks about the main cover the grass roots organizing and how that changes can they try to work with local people. the other book is from charles payne coli got the light of freedom. in and he tries to answer the questions that how do you get people to register to vote? it is a process to make the

connections on the family level. and then highlight the importance of women. tells the story i am of mail these your. >> what about the movement on the ground? who are the people that are the glue of the movement? and it helps to highlight that. . .

>> at the washington offices, aei hosted a discussion about al-qaeda. this is an hour and a half.

>> good morning, everyone. [inaudible conversations] or just the very beginning of good afternoon. i think we can get going if we can break up some conversation over there, a little bit? thanks. okay. i want to thank everyone for coming out on a beautiful day, coming inside to the windowless -- well, we have windows, but we covered them for some reason, i'm not entirely sure of, but thank you, all, for coming out to talk about our usual happy topic, i'm fred, the director of the critical project, and we've been working on al-qaeda, and especially on the various al-qaeda affiliated

movements around the world for a number of years now, and this, unfortunately, is a topic that does not show any sign of diminishing in importance, and it is getting evermore complicated to understand because, unfortunately, what we're finding is that a lot of the affiliates and associates are ramifying in their local areas, and both expanding and interacting with one another in new ways, so it is a major, political undertaking simply to try to follow what's going on. let alone coherent assessments of the strategy, let alone coherent recommendations for what one might do instead, and just to take that off the table, that's one thing that you're not going to get today. here's the strategy for defeating al-qaeda, and that is

something that is -- we're working on it, a lot of people are working on it, but it's going to take quite a lot of effort. we're here today to focus on trying to understand what we're talking about when we say "defeating al-qaeda, fighting al-qaeda," what it is, what it is not, and what the implications of that definition are. i'm thrilled to be able to introduce a very good friend, an old friend, known each other for decades. back when we were both soviet military specialists and mary, then nope as the tank lady, because of the financial expertise on the doctrine, doing terrific work, also,

unfortunately, becoming relevant once again. just for those of you per suing topics, young people in the audience, asking yourself, will anyone care about this, those of us who graduated in the 80s and # 90s with degrees in soviet studies, know, yes, pretty much everything is important if we wait long enough. i wish we could have waited longer for that one. that's a topic for another discussion. mary, devoted her life for quite a number of years now to understanding al-qaeda, to the ideology, and understanding the group as it is. we are thrilled to publish a report, getting it right, u.s. national security policy and al-qaeda since 2011, she's written a number of other books including an excellent primer on

al-qaeda called "knowing the enemy," and she's working on, i don't know, four or five other books simultaneously that should be coming out shortly, and mary has done a fantastic service for us to talk about in trying to identify what people seem to mean when they say al-qaeda, particularly people in the administration, and then talking wouldn't what she thinks is should mean. after mary speaks, we'll have katherine zimmerman speak. cay diane nash is our al-qaeda team lead at the critical press project, and she's been staring at this problem for number of years now, and there's another report on the al-qaeda network, describing how the -- how we should think about the relationship between core and

prief rei because that's become really, really pivotal question, and for u.s. policy, but before i turn it over to mary and before we start talking about that, and bruce hoffman tried to drive on the gw parkway, i gather, so he'll join us when traffic permits. before turning it to mary, step back and say, there's a certain amount of sound and furry on al-qaeda, whether we win or lose and how it's all going. there are things that are generally agreed upon, and then there are things that are argued about. what is -- you won't find a lot of people who will say that al-qaeda in the peninsula in yemen is defeeted, not a threat, not fighting, incapable, you won't find people who say that at this