she discusses her biography of r.j. reynolds tobacco co. and his wife, catherine. he talks about the couple's influence to early 20th century and catherine reynolds philanthropic pursuits after rj status. this is about 40 minutes. >> michelle gillespie, who is r.j. reynolds? >> r.j. reynolds assayed original tobacco manufacturing united states in the late 19th century he was selling chewing tobacco and he became the best manufacturer chewing tobacco in the entire country. >> host: how did he become that? >> is the second timeout of 16 children of a tobacco planter before the civil war who owned over 50 slaves. the largest slaveholder and patrick county, virginia. and so r.j. reynolds grew up in

the civil war in 1850 unlearned the whole business of growing tobacco from his father. and his father also is entrepreneurial and pretty sure it recognized its great to grow tobacco, but it may be even better to sell the tobacco himself into process that it, too manufactured. he took a tobacco accreted on his own plantation in manufacturing any other slaves and sons figure out how to turn the tobacco plant into chewing tobacco. he was selling chewing tobacco before the civil war and after the civil war and during the period of reconstruction he had a sense continue earning his business. so his father was very entrepreneurial, figured out you are losing money in the tobacco trade over the course of the middle of the 19th century in the end of the civil war and beginning of reconstruction and taught his sons how to do the

business. his sons, particularly r.j. reynolds relies the price for transplantation was away from marketing possibilities. if you saw this tobacco come you couldn't do it the old way. the old way was to get into wagon's and take this big shot of tobacco and headed to the appalachian mountains, go down to that done, the shoulder of the mountains and so this tobacco to the people who lived in the hollows and the valleys and he would send -- r.j. reynolds within his sons how to do it. he learned how to do this and came back. welcome his son realize that made the money, but it was not a very smart way to market, to sell. he realized realized the future lay in railroads and having close access to read with bigger efficiencies of scale. so when r.j. reynolds as a teenager, he went to baltimore

and he studied accounting. he went to night school for accounting. but what he really did in baltimore as a young man was to learn how business works. the business of modernizing tibet. >> host: how to begin at up in north carolina? >> guest: he came back from baltimore and he looked at his father's plantation and small-scale manufacturing of that i work for you a little bit longer, saved up money. his father paid him and he realized the golden leaf tobacco market was probably going to be best served a little bit south of where he was and patrick county, virginia. as soon. as we move to winston, north carolina, a tiny little town of a couple thousand people. because of its location, there were tons of young, brash man like himself who realized this gold leaf tobacco people were beginning to grow along the

border was called in the pocket if they could bring it into a warehouse in better yet manufacturer. r.j. reynolds was one of dozens of deaths to be a then. he had the privilege of $7500 at the time which is about $140,000 in today's money and he took the money, bought a lot and built a small brick warehouse that he turn into a tobacco manufacturing unit. he was socially piece looked up stairs in the manufacturing accredits its early beginnings to a dozen african-american men who worked with him to make that work. in the beginning in 1875 u. is one of dozens of other young men like him setting up warehouses are the manufacturers of

tobacco. but pretty quickly he figured out that he could be some changes, some innovations other people what they can about. peabody steve mentioned was able to provide light all through the winter. he was able to manufacture through the short days for the long nights and short days so he was able to produce faster than anybody else. he looked to to have a to winston, north carolina south of the border outside this town is going to be big someday and he pushed to get an extension of the train service to winston. he also bought a planned all over the place and he bought land for commercial reasons, private reasons. he bought a farm. he pressed her public utilities. the river city council. he decided he would make this place work to put all of his heart and soul into making winston grow and prosper.

pretty quickly he emerged as his younger brother site to say that the 1880s through the biggest lead at the time of winston that he was doing very, very well. commercially he was doing most manufacturing. he was buying tobacco from tobacco farmers, counties away selling to him exclusively. he had a big personality because probably he opponents the mountains to sell that tobacco is a young man. he learned how to talk to anybody and everybody in that carried over into his transition from a cyberculture world to this new manufacturing world he was in charge of. so he could talk to the farmers. he could talk to the african-american man who had come from the countryside to work for him. he could talk to middle-class families and some of the more well-to-do families left to have r.j. reynolds come to their weddings. see who is a very personable,

very charming guy that everybody seemed to like and everybody wanted to be attached to. by the 1890s, his tobacco manufacturing was so successful that he probably was the largest manufacturer chewing tobacco in the country by the 1890s. >> host: blended cigarettes come into play? >> guest: rj reynolds is really slow in making the transition to cigarettes. cigarettes have become popular by the mid-19th century in europe and james buchanan duke and the whole duke family who went to rome, north carolina, so in today's time an hour and a half away were very quick to make the transition to cigarettes. the dukes were the first to die the manufacturing machinery unity to make summer. so they were manufacturing cigarettes. r.j. reynolds would slow. for someone who ended up being

innovative in the early 20th century, he was kind of behind the times in the late 19th century perhaps because he was so successful a corner in the chewing tobacco market. he had about 40 different brands of you which fixes labels on. he was in marketing genius. he seemed to have everybody's market. so he didn't feel a burning desire is there were to think that transition to cigarettes. he's going to end up making the transition in 1913 with the camel cigarette. it's going to take a whole bunch of changes in his outlook and changes in the market for him to make that transition. in the 1890s, there was a panic in 1893. when the panic happened, he looked around, thought about retiring. he was 43 at the time. he thought about retiring and he said i want to take some big risks and he spent the 1890s

even though the economy was beginning to tank, growing and growing his company. he would go into baghdad. he wanted to such data to create more and more buildings and extend his market that its top management people left in. they said this man is crazy. but he was crazy like a fox because he ended up bringing in his younger brothers and put them in charge of him. he kept going into debt, kept growing. he thought he was getting in trouble by the late 1890s and at that point he went to james buchanan duke, the duke of cigarettes same. he went to james buchanan duke because duke since 1893 had been buying up with his american tobacco co., really a monopoly had been buying up all the tobacco companies throughout the country. he had stayed away. but duke had stayed away from r.j. reynolds because he thought he was doing chewing tobacco and

that was old-fashioned. does the lower class clientele. he was interested. he thought cigarettes and pipe tobacco with the way to go. but r.j. reynolds tg like a fox said why, i need more capital here. i've gone into debt. i want to grow my company. i need more capital. when i realized and found out in research was r.j. reynolds went to duke and to let, i need your capital. come by my company out. at the end of the americans tobacco monopoly and you will be glad you did. so jiangsu came to winston and made a secret deal and to his friends, r.j. reynolds says it looks like i'm going under, but not really. watch and see what happens. once a company was under the duke monopoly, under american tobacco, r.j. reynolds got

american tobacco to buy up all of his competitors in winston and north carolina and never were around, including enhanced textile name. i don't think people relate the same corporation started out as a tobacco manufacturing and might've stayed if r.j. reynolds had been stooped to buy the company out from under the hands brothers. once r.j. reynolds has no more competition, he fits tightly, keep selling chewing tobacco. he goes to new york all the time and learns how corporations work in the early 20th century and in learning how corporations work, he comes back and uses ideas about modern corporations and how they work, how to have effective management teams, about what's going on in the new

advertising in new york city and takes all that in and then he builds a research component brings in a swiss scientist and they were producing sacra in another flavorings and very quietly they were kind of type tobacco and are also on cigarettes. they are not supposed to under the terms of the american tobacco company. in 1907, as the supreme court has started to look at american tobacco and say this is a monopoly, just like standard oil, this is bad we can't do this anymore, r.j. reynolds pulls out prince albert smoking tobacco. ..

people still study that advertising throughout the world , the whole advertising strategy which started out with ads in all the popular magazines and newspapers of the time saying, look out, something special was going become. the next month it would say the

camera is coming. the camel cigarette blends had half of the market by the end of 081819. so r.j. reynolds did something quite extraordinary. this man born in 1858 slave holding, rural virginia who wears the tobacco industry of lawyers that the back seat to buy tobacco every culture world the transforms himself by the early 20th-century into a leading manufacturer.

>> there were two towns separated by about half a mile. salem had been started by the moravian soon have come down from bethlehem, pennsylvania in the 1760's fit in one this set up a prius community in north carolina and bring in new recruits. they had come from germany originally, very cultured, littered, well read people. they probably were the first to bring sebastian bach. so they came to this pretty cut wild part of the north carolina piedmont. there were lorises, merchants, they educated sons and daughters. so salem prospered all through the 19th century and really something very cultured,

middle-class group of people it doesn't take root until the low the 19th century, and it's attracting all of these, would not say ne'er-do-well, but these young, brash manner of did make a buck, very opportunistic. they seem to be the antithesis of everything that they have stood for. the thing about these young tobacco and textile folks coming to this town off is that they recognize in the future lies in building this manufacturing world, using the transportation up virginities of trains and advertising. even though saddam is not thrilled, it has to pay attention.

they're saying to a sale on townspeople come make a look, manufacturing is the future. we have this great industrial city that is taking shape before our eyes. we really need to incorporate together. if we do we will all be better contract more businesses, track more investment if we come together. so a lot of salem people were not excited about that, but by 1913 the and it -- the incorporation happened. >> host: at think we have done a disservice. who is catherine and why did she get top billing? >> for a couple of reasons. the release started out this project to look at catherine

reynolds. i have been a historian of women . i learned that she was seen as the leading light of winston-salem, her ideas of social reform, her commitment to the environment, her commitment to social issues there iraq was something that everyone who lived in the winston-salem area understood. it was part of the legacy of what winston was all about. i started researching catherine first. catherine was born much later than r.j. reynolds, 1880. r.j. reynolds was born in 1850, 30-year difference. they did not get married until she was the 44. catherine -- catherine was this fascinating figure to me because

she had done all of this change in winston, but in the act of researching her life be i realize that she could not have made the market should do it without r.j. reynolds. not only his wealth, but also his support of her interest in causes enable the user imagination and intelligence and skills and ability to lead. if she had not married reynolds she may not have had the kind of legacy as she left us. >> host: what were some of her causes? >> guest: she was interested in all kinds of things. one of the founding members of the ywca in winston-salem. she was very interested in that general federation of women's club. she was committed to the women's business organization. she cared deeply about all of the social services in

hospitals, orphanages. she would give families meals that they skimming and holiday time help them celebrate even though they were experiencing dress. she was interested in that fema right to vote. every conceivable women's club effort of the early 20th-century catherine had, you know, from and fingerprint. she was never a sustained leader of any of these movements, but she was always behind them, they're giving money or serving on the board, showing the people of not just winston-salem, but north carolina and beyond that women could have an important public role to bring about critical social reform of the era. >> host: what were some of r.j. reynolds public causes? >> guest: r. j. reynolds was an interesting person in that respect. he did not take on the same prominence to a benevolent, and philanthropic efforts that

catherine did that were more -- that were bigger in scope. he was a bit different. strategic. so while he was a great philanthropist permit it was local. usually it was still whites and blacks. very unusual for a seven industrialists to give the culminates zero white and black entities. so he gave his money to orphanages, churches, benevolence societies, but all very small local ones. he did this, i argue in the book, because these people were the people who supported his company. in a lot of cases these were the -- his employees and the people who he wanted to be connected to

the community. i think that he gave equally pitched quite strategically. we might want to say that he was ahead of this time. that is not the case. he accepted the racism that was part and parcel. what he did understand is usa to my care deeply about your social issues, community, and i want to support your community and i had it as both your employer and someone who cares about your welfare beyond faugh my factory. reynolds also did this because he was having to deal with the reality of a very horrific jim crow racism at a frightening time for african-americans in

the earliest -- early 20th-century south. many had the right to vote taken away from them, other civil rights, and literally, from extralegal violence that many african-americans wanted to leave the south and go north. r.j. reynolds say i will support your community, giving money to orphanages, churches, elderly society, always to take my will take care of you. stay here in winston-salem. >> host: he was a democrat. >> guest: he was a democrat, but that democrats at that time was the same thing that being a debt -- was not the same thing that being a democrat means to us today. in fact, the democratic party was the prominent party in the early 20th-century and the democratic party had used racist invest is to get rid of the public in a populous challenges. the democratic party was the party of all whites essentially in the early 20th century.

>> host: winces white and black communities. several oral traditions about r.j. sexual relationships with black women in particular. >> guest: absolutely. absolutely. he was a robust, healthy, vibrant man in every sense of the word. he loved to live life large. he left a hunting and he loved drinking. even though he was incredibly hard-working and disciplined in some respects in terms of his

business when the lead is shared and the lead is shared them. he did not marry anyone until he was 54 years old. i was able to document the fact that he did have at least one child out of wedlock, of white child. the story goes -- and it is told by members of the family -- that he was out hunting for with a friend of land as that of former owner in a neighboring county and had a relationship with the farmer's daughter is subsequently became pregnant and had a son. the sun was in an orphanage for part of his life. by the time he was seven or eight and was able to find them in winston living in the hall of r.j. reynolds brother and sister-in-law who essentially adopted him as their own. i also found that that young man was being tutored by r.j. reynolds. and i could find this year and men being trained by r.j.

reynolds to collect fees and learn how business works. by the time he was in his twenties he was working for r.j. reynolds company. he ended up being an important manager in of opera, nebraska. rjr died in 1918. his son died four years later early in life of a sickness. he had over $600,000 in his estate when he died, and he gave that money to a number of charities and winston and actually ended up giving more money philanthropic the -- above probably then r.j. reynolds himself. that is an interesting story to see how large they took care of this and man. and catherine married r.j. reynolds in 1905. the pastor knew about this son, and the pastor and his general and kept in contact with each other. he was very aware of this.

i was never able to document that r.j. reynolds had affairs with any other women before he married catherine or after. i suspect strongly that one see and catherine were married he was faithful to air for the 14 years that they were married. he expressed his deep love and letters to catherine. he had four children with catherine and quick succession and then became ill with pancreatic cancer at the end of their marriage. he was faithful throughout their marriage, i think. >> host: when did catherine back? >> guest: catherine died early in 1924 when she was 43 years old. she died early because she had a child. she had been told in 1914 got seven more children. she was pregnant with her fifth child with r.j. reynolds and had heart trouble. her doctors actually aborted

that fetus and told her, do not have more children. she cared for geraldo until 1918, and then a year later she fellow of the pests with a yard principle that she had hired for a school that she was building on her estate. he was 12 years her junior. he was a world war one veteran. he was also deeply committed to education. and that's to fell madly and passionately in love. she was very committed to having children with them. she married him in 1921 and became very submitted to having children with him. there is word and i account that he was forcing his hand about wanting to have children, but from my reading of catherine's

letters she herself wanted to have to have more children. she had a sun was in 1924. there were concerns a better off. she was 43 years old. there was not the health care we have today for women of that age at that time. she went to new york and was on bed rest for the three months preceding the birth of the son who was born in may of 1924. her husband says sits a telegram home to everyone at the estate in winston-salem, mother and son doing fine, and three days later she died of an embolism. a very sad, that story. the city was destroyed when they heard that it katherine had died this city had -- when r.j. reynolds died earlier, he had lived to be 64, had up full life, built this great company. when katherine died this city mourned because she was only 43 years old and there was a sense that she would have done so much

more. her body was brought back by train to winston, and a funeral was arranged for her. six different ministers spoke at her funeral from six different faiths which is extraordinary to me. when the funeral to occur to that salem cemetery where she was to be buried, thousands of people lined the streets. schools were closed, stores were closed, city government was closed in honor of this woman. i think to myself that i know of no other city that shuts down for the death of a woman to a 20th-century. first particularly in the american south in this time. so deep was the morning for katherine, and that think the understanding of our commitment to the people of that place. >> host: you right, katherine discovered when she could not escape the confines of southern womanhood which she came to see as a series of unending duties

on behalf of others and as knew of the r.j. reynolds tobacco company increasingly disregarded territory after his death she looks to cultural expression of modernity as a means through which to find pleasure. >> absolutely. i think catherine, when she realized with his death that she was not going to have the kind of voice and the company and she had been having until this point through her husband, she was instrumental in the success of the advertising campaign for that camel cigarettes. there were good friends. when rjr died she did not have that kind of influence and the company anymore. the company was not interested in even bringing in her new husband into the company. i think katherine saw that the

door was closed so that business side that she had been able to cultivate. i think she let her hair down a little bit. in her late 30's and early 40's she saw who the new flapper generation of the 1920's, and she embraced that. i think she was passionately, madly in love with her second husband, j. edward johnston jr. i think it was a sexual relation to public expects. i was lucky in that i was able to meet the sun that was born in 1924 a few years before he died living in baltimore. i got to spend a couple of days with them. he gave me the love letters between katherine and her second husband. and that is where i base that argument. i'm going to embrace my life. i am going to think about the best culture that i can bring to the city, have beautiful clothes and a remake myself in this new,

sexual way. you can literally see in the photographs how she goes from in 1905 this kind of victorian woman, very young, but still dressed in finery up to her neck, her sleeves coverage. by 1921 she has buried, wears sleeveless of vets and is presenting herself in a very different way. i think she is saying, life is short. i have had my four children. i will embrace life. >> host: michele gillespie, what is the r.j. reynolds tobacco company today, and what is it footprint in winston-salem >> guest: the company today is american. join with another tobacco company. it has had a story life in many committee ways, but it had to be more international and develop

new clients abroad rather than the united states. reynolds has gone through huge master settlements of the 1990's . the company has downsized. fest as a resident of winston-salem you open the newspaper and lets the company has let more people go or plants but is still has headquarters there. >> host: still manufacture cigarettes there? >> guest: fewer, but it still does. and it still has a huge imprint on the town. there are so many residents of winston who early on were beneficiaries not only of the employees but of also getting stock. and that stock has grown and grown and grown and split end divided. one of the really, really good

profits made of this as late as the 1990's. so it is an extraordinary city. there were more millionaires per capita than any other city in the country. first most of that wealth came from the success of the cigarette trade. so winston-salem is a beneficiary in terms of having extraordinary art for relatively small city, less than 200,000. the first school for the arts, one of the first art council's in the country. so there are ways in which the wealth that came out of the tobacco company along with textiles and other companies that is really contributed to making a small city culturally a pretty exciting place. >> host: what is the royals' connection to like forest university? and yours?

>> guest: i'm a professor of american history at wake forest since 1999. my husband is a graduate. i was fortunate to come to lake forest because they have an extraordinary undergraduate liberal arts program. it is a pleasure. wake forest's originally in 1834 originated then just north of raleigh in the town of wake forest, north carolina. it was extraordinary in higher education, the reynolds family was able to persuade this baptist liberal arts college to move, to up and move itself from the middle of the state to winston-salem, and did so in the 19 fifties. and so wake forest was originally owned by the royal

family and part of the estate and also the beneficiary of the reynolds foundation sponsors or scholarships, professorships for faculty to was gosh as for students. anyways the history of the riddles family and the history of lake forest have been interwoven together. >> host: we have been talking here on book tv with michele gillespie, author of this book to my "katherine and r.j. reynolds". think you for your time. >> visit booktv.org to watch any of the programs you see here on line. type the author or book title in the search bar on the upper left side of the page and click search. you can also share anything you see on booktv.org easily by clicking share of the upper left side of the page and selecting the format. book tv streams live on line for 48 hours every weekend with top

nonfiction books and authors. booktv.org. >> here is a look of some of the best-selling nonfiction books according to and which tracks best sellers from independent bookstores across the country. at the top of the list is michael lewis on high-frequency trading "flash boys." book tv hosted a call-in program earlier this month that can be viewed any time on booktv.org. in second, "everything i need to know i learned from a little golden bank" followed by "thrive" by the president and editor in chief of the huffington opposed media group, arianna huffington. the latest book from new yorker writer malcolm gladwell "david and goliath" is fourth of a book. his talk of a book from the free library in philadelphia can be viewed on our website. tv talk-show host chelsea handler is faced with "uganda be kidding me."

>> next danielle james brown tells the story of the american rowing team.

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>> you're watching it booktv.org. up next mallory factor provides the history of the conservative movement through the works of people who shaped it like william f. buckley jr., al gregory, phyllis schlafly, newt gingrich, and ralph reed. this is about 45 minutes. >> as we begin now want to point out one aspect. our guest is also a part-time fox news commentator. millions of americans, of course, no bill o'reilly as the factor. valerie, and this case, has been a factor long before the factory was cool. john c. west professor of international politics and american government at the citadel, the host and co-founder of the new york meeting, and nationally recognized gathering of elected officials among journalists, business leaders, and conservative authors in new york city and also founded the

charleston meeting which meets in south carolina. he previously opted the new york times best-seller which she is too modest to advertise, shadowboxes government unions control america and rob the taxpayers blind. a member of the council on foreign relations and served as vice chairman of the council on foreign relations task force on terrorism financing and is frequently testifying on chair financing, regulation of the financial-services industry and other economic issues. he also served as chairman of the free enterprise fund, a free-market, as he says, do tank advocating economic growth, lower taxes, and limited government. they also brought the legislation the for the supreme court. today we're featuring him on "big tent" where we learn a littlei