>> the chair will yield himself sometime for closing remarks. i want to thank the secretary for being with us. mr. secretary, i think it's safe to say that we all, you, i, everybody on the panel, shares a goal to see that our kids, and not kids, higher education now the nontraditional student is the tradition. that is, the older students. we want them all to learn and to

prosper and have the chance to achieve their goal here we have some differences in how we go about doing that. we are comparing budgets here today. a lot of discussion about the ryan budget, what it does and doesn't do, the president's budget. frankly, if you have a budget like you're defending part of that never ever balances, adds to the debt every year forever, you can find some programs and some new programs. but the real world that you've been talking about such probably we shouldn't do that for ever, and for ever we should have a budget that eventually bounces and we need to set some priorities. on special and we had some back and forth about who is funding special ed. as i said in my comment, i'm disappointed in both parties, administration some pars and in congress both parties but i will say that when republicans held the majority are from 1995-2007,

we took special ed funding which was supposed to be as you know 40% of the x. is required, we took it from the single digits, it had been that for a couple decades from 8% to 18%. it is back down to 16%. with your $100 million of competitive grant to special ed, that's in the words of one my colleagues of two years ago, kind of -- kind of budget dust. to get it to 18% it would take about $1.5 billion so reiterate my request, i'm going to work on it, talk to my colleagues, talk to programs, doctor everybody i can about increasing that funding because no matter how popular a new program might be, or even an old program, i haven't talked to a super to become a principal, teachers or parents who won't say that the most important thing the federal government can do is to start immediate that commitment. we're going to continue work on

that. a lot of discussion about three k. come preschool education. you've got a pretty big program. as you know the federal government already spends close to $13 billion a year on pre-k programs over a billion is on head start. seems to me we need to look at that program with gusto to make sure it's doing what it's supposed to be doing. a lot of things going. i appreciate your comments about the charter school bill. we feel pretty good about that. i wish we hadn't had to pull it out of the espa reauthorization by thinkers too many kids are being denied an opportunity to achieve success and parents i think that charter school bill is important to its very, very bipartisan idaho we can count on you to help us move that drew. it will pass next week. it will pass on the floor of the house huge, huge number. we would like the senate to take

up and see if we can't address the needs of those kids and those families. thank you very much for your patience. we went a little bit longer than i know you would like and some of us would like. i appreciate you staying and hang in there. even though you tempted me with holding another hearing so you could have buried with mr. miller, that may not happen. so again, thank you very much for being here today. there being no further business before the committee, we are adjourned. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]

>> the house oversight and government reform committee holds a hearing this morning on libya at the 2012 benghazi consulate attack. the hearing follows newly released white house e-mails showing how the administration shaped its response to the attack. live coverage at 9:30 a.m. eastern on c-span3. you can join the conversation on facebook and twitter. >> almost 5000 students entered this year's c-span studentcam video competition on the most important issue congress should consider in 2014. we talked to the top five winners about their documentaries. >> the moment where we all decided this is going to the topic was when there was an

article on backing our notional newspaper. it said how fracking was happening to most from our house. it's a national problem and ask also a local problem. so from the know we're all very passionate about the subject and it seemed obvious that's what topics should be. >> food is essential to life. it transcends everything to everybody requires food to live so i figured the fact that a lot of people don't know what's being done to our food supply and they just eat this food regularly without knowing what's inside it, i found that very concerning so that's why chose the topic. >> there's a lot more you don't know and it's hard for the average person to know exactly what is going on because they don't know what is going on. i think it depends to you value your security over privacy, or your privacy over your security? >> hear more from the top winners saturday morning at 10 a.m. eastern on c-span. >> michele leonhart, that --

ahead of the drug enforcement administration, testified on wednesday. in her remarks she address the increase in marijuana seizures intent is coming from colorado, state that is legalized the drug. this hearing is an hour 20 minutes. >> good morning, everyone and i apologize for the delay. i think the senators who are here, senator grassley, senator sessions, senator flake, senator whitehouse who will take over this hearing at some point, and had a chance to chat with administrator leonhart in the back, and i appreciate very much having you here. the hearing comes at an important time.

our nation continues to struggle with an old and persistent problem, the seemingly unrelenting addiction to powerful controlled substances. but i think a lot about that problem is evolving and changing. the drugs of choice are evolving, along with the path to addiction for many americans. i said to ms. leonhart, it's a lot different from the days, decades ago when i was a prosecutor, or when senator sessions or senator whitehouse were. prescription drug abuse has reached epidemic levels, and overdoses from prescription opioids now account for more than half of all drug-related deaths. something we didn't see not very long ago. around the country law enforcement as a demonstrate a strong commitment to greater approaches to combating drug abuse.

we seem enforcement alone is not enough. there's no amount of arrest or seized drugs that can truly break america's drug habit. we need a comprehensive approach, one that includes prevention and treatment, reentry services. a month ago i brought the senate judiciary committee in vermont, a very small city like rural towns across the country has seen a surge in addiction to heroin and other opioids. the communities come together to respond in a remarkable way. that hearing, it wasn't a case of people pointed things at each other. they were saying we're all in this together. the police department almost functions as the community organizer. they partner with early intervention ordination, social workers, even building inspectors to address addiction from every angle. i'm going to sure i'm cursed to see the justice department is committed to a comprehensive

approach. the department is supporting prevention entry into efforts in promoting fair census. the dea is committed to addressing drug abuse through prevention. dea's loss o or educational programs and reduced demand for drugs, and even the same let the office of diversion control which controls distribution of prescription drugs. i was pleased to see in conjunction with the dea authorities in vermont just last weekend recovered over 3300 pounds of unused prescription drugs in the take back event. 3300 pounds. remember, we are state about 620,000 people. this is the enormous. it means hundreds of thousands of unwanted bills are no longer sitting on shelves and susceptible to abuse. effective diversion control means effective addiction prevention. and while the dea is doing critical important work in many areas i do have some concerns

that i have raised, i have concerns about some of the dea special operations missions, investigative techniques. we will have discussed this privately. we will not discuss openly in the same but it's an area where additional oversight is needed. and i want the dea to cooperate with those of us who have the responsibility of oversight. i have repeatedly sought answers regarding dea's involvement in a 2012 counter-narcotics operations in honduras, for hundred hundreds serve -- 400 civilians were killed including a 14 year-old. i realize that is before you time by want you to take a look at that because they haven't taken steps to ensure this wouldn't happen again. i would have difficulty

supporting dea's participation in such operations in the future either wearing my hat in this committee or another hat i were in the appropriations committee. but administered, thank you very much, and thank you for the time you spent on this. i am eager to hear your ideas, and right after we hear from senator grassley we will ask questions. >> welcome, administrator leonhart, and thank you for coming. your agency faces many challenges as it tries to works to keep us safe from dangerous drugs. i'm going to point out in my questioning and in my statement that some of those problems coming from the executive branch make sure job even harder, from my point of view.

the united states is experiencing this epidemic that the chairman spoke about of opioids abuse, particularly harewood and description painkillers -- heroine. we recently had a survey of 700,000 americans reported using heroin in the past year but that seems to be increasing. we read about the death of philip seymour hoffman, pointing out as just one example harewood overdose. law enforcement including your agency has a critical role to play respond to the epidemic. and, of course, we can't arrest our way out of it but we can maintain the current law enforcement tools that help dea go after those who are trafficking heroin. unfortunately, as i said about

the executive branch make your job more difficult and there's disagreement on this committee on this issue but i think that's since been built that could administration support does just the opposite. the proposed smart sensing act that recently passed out of this committee cuts in mandatory minimum sentences for those who manufacture, import or distribute even heroin, and it cuts that since then have. these are penalties for dealers, not users, in the midst of the heroin epidemic. as i said to you i think that this makes no sense. i don't want to take my word for it in opposing the bill. that federal prosecutors themselves wrote that the current system of penalties is a cornerstone of their ability to infiltrate and dismantle large scale -- cornerstone of their

ability quote to infiltrate and dismantle large-scale drug trafficking organizations and to take violent armed career criminals off the streets. that's a quote from federal prosecutors. i don't want to remove that a cornerstone. another challenge for your agency that i hope to discuss is the mixed message from the administration that young people get about the dangers of marijuana use. in an interview, the president said this, that it was quote unquote important that these states quote unquote go forward with the legalization. this has caused confusion and uncertainty about whether using marijuana is really something to be discouraged.

we had a recent scientific study as a reminder of how dangerous marijuana use can be. a paper published earlier this month, the journal of neuroscience, concluded that even casual marijuana use was associated with potential harmful changes to the brain, particularly of young people. the department of justice apparently concluded not so long as states that legalize marijuana create effective regulatory schemes than federal enforcement did consider that a priority. those priorities include the prevention of violence, increased use among minors, and diversion of marijuana to other states. but we are seeing particularly in recent news stories miners getting very much involved in that use, and even seo and diversion of marijuana to other states are telling me even in iowa, there's a lot of marijuana

coming from colorado. so i hope the administration is taking a look at the announcement they made of what they considered a priority for prosecution. as a result it's hardly surprising that a senior dea official recently told the senate caucus on international narcotics control that what was happening in these states, meaning washington, or states where there's been recreational marijuana or even medicinal marijuana is quote unquote reckless and irresponsible. at this point those words apply equally to the department of justice policy that has permitted states to legalize the drug for recreational purposes that congress has chosen to make illegal. as the above examples attest, marijuana being combined with

cookies and candies in colorado iin a way that is attractive to young people, including children, i hope to discuss legislation with senator feinstein, that senator feinstein and i introduced last year called saving kids from dangers drug ask, that we can get something done to deter this kind of market. i'm going to put the rest of my statement in the record, mr. chairman. >> thank you very much, and look at legislation you or anybody else come up with. i'm always worried about legislation that steps on states' rights and what they might be doing. please go ahead, ms. leonhart. >> chairman leahy and ranking member grassley, members of this committee, it's my honor to appear before you to discuss the

drug enforcement administration and our role in reducing crime and protecting the american people from drugs. i welcome the opportunity to continue the successful and positive relationship the dea and the department of justice have with this committee. throughout on more than 40 year history, dea has successfully pursued the world's most violent and prolific drug trafficking organizations, and this includes the similar cartel whose leader joaquin guzman was arrested earlier this year by mexican authorities. and as the head of this cartel, guzman contribute to the death and destruction of millions of lives all around the world and the rest of the world's most wanted international drug trafficker is a major step forward in our shared fight against drug trafficking and violence. in the past year, and more of the most wanted drug traffickers

known as seedpods by the department justice an otherwise known as kingpins have been arrested. six were extradited to the united states and among them was daniel barreiro, who led hundreds of tons of cocaine. he was concerned one of the last true drug kingpins in the indian region. since we started tracking seedpods in 2003 a total of 179 have been identified around the world, and of those through our enforcement efforts, 75% have been indicted, 55% have been arrested and 31% of actually been extradited to the united states. this is a record that we are very proud of. by keeping the pressure on drug traffickers and stripping them of almost $27 billion in revenue

since 2005 we have prevented the use of these funds. this is one of dea's contributions to the comprehensive national drug control strategy which is guided a decrease in the overall rate of illicit drug use in american by 35% in the past 35 years. just like the efforts to eliminate cancer or poverty, the fight against drug abuse is a generations long struggle and it will not be won overnight. since 2006 the number of current users of any form of illicit drug, other than marijuana, dropped 8%, and regular cocaine use of dropped 32% between 2006-2012. and at the same time as amphetamine use is down by 40% but we still have areas of

concern. an estimated 6.8 million americans regularly use prescription drugs for nonmedical reasons. as troubling, 80% of first time heroin users started by using prescription pain pills. the availability of both heroin and marijuana is growing at 102012, 438,000 americans were addicted to heroin. and 10 times that number were depend on marijuana. from 2007-2012, the number of regular heroin users in this country, more than doubled and unsurprisingly overdose deaths increase as well. one train whizzing over and over again is that, as drug use, as drug use rises and as -- drug use rises as the perception of risk decreases. we are seeing that now with marijuana. from 2008 to 2013, past month

use of drug increased among all eighth, 10th, and 12th graders surveyed. these increases parallels softening attitudes about the perceived risks of harm and disapproval associated with marijuana use. marijuana use is a fish's problem in this country and here are some other facts. marijuana related emergency room visits increased by 20% between 2007-2011. one out of every 15 highschooler seniors is a near daily marijuana user. in fact, since 2009 more high school seniors have been smoking marijuana than smoking cigarettes. and researchers have found that adolescents who use marijuana at least four days per week lost an average of eight iq points. these facts paint a picture of the choices we have to make and to the future will be facing the

drug abuse is devastating on a personal level and drug trafficking poses a series of threat to society because of the violence and the hazards that accompany it, and the terrorist organizations that are often funded by a. so now is not the time to sound the retreat, but rather we should be redoubling our efforts. dea will continue attacking these threats using tools and techniques that have worked so well for us in the past. close relationships with federal, state, local and international partners, information sharing and case coordination, and going after what drug traffickers value most, that's their money. i have great confidence that dea with your support will continue to build on our gains and overcome the challenges that lie ahead. those challenges are not insignificant. today's drug traffickers exploit new and evolving technologies to communicate, to launder illegal

gotten gains, to facilitate the smuggling of drugs and weapons, and to develop new substances that can be abused. so thank you for your partnership and i look forward to continuing to work with this committee and congress on these important issues to ask them a written statement be added to the record. >> it will be placed in the record. we do appreciate you being here. after all.after all, your summa0 years of law enforcement experience, adding at the baltimore city police officer, and then at dea special agent, you can speak of first hand knowledge of many of these things. i am concerned about prescription opioids have been the drug of choice in america. i think we have seen it all over the country. demand for treatment have skyrocketed, death from overdose has for eclipse all other drugs. opioid addiction all too often leads to heroin, as you know.

we see this in every state, including my own in vermont. and that's why it is concerned to see powerful new opioids without any deterrent technologies into our communities. the most recent example i've been told about is so high draw, what is dea doing to monitor the use of this and what we do if you find widespread abuse? >> thank you, senator for mentioning the opioid problem that is the nation's fastest growing drug problem, and it is not confined to large cities are the west coast, east coast but it is a crossed our country. so dea shares your concerns but we also share the concern with any new opioids that come on the

market and are prepared, have to be prepared for additional seating, additional use, additional abuse -- >> does that include zohydro? >> we anticipate because it's really the first hydrocodone, pure hydrocodone product coming out that we will have headaches that will seek it out just because it's pure hydrocodone. we are concerned because anytime you put a new opioid on the street, we all remember the days of oxycontin when that was released. this is a drug that's coming out without any tamper resistant ability to prevent it being crushed, smoked and snorted why addicts. so we are very concerned but we also believe that the

enforcement efforts that we have put forth, and what we've done to really, really move our agency towards prioritizing prescription drugs will help alleviate, will help confront any additional use or abuse of -- >> i would hope also that manufacture might cooperate with you, otherwise they face the potential of backlash from congress. something they probably would not want to face so i hope to do cooperate with you. also we consistently hear from vermont law enforcement, a strong dea presence, have asked agents stationed in burlington, agenda we discussed this but where are we towards the possible permanent assignment in southern vermont of dea agents?

>> well, to help in rutland, and i met with the police chief and met recently with the vermont highway patrol, we have been very active working in vermont. we've actually, even the burlington is a small office, we've actually sent agents temporarily, on a continuous basis to help in rutland and make sure that we have enforcement presence there. i'm hoping by the end of the week or even early next week that i will be having a conversation with the u.s. attorney in vermont who has been talking to our special agent in charge. and as we make decisions about moving forward with the resources or reallocating resources, i will take into account what his needs are and what he feels dea could do to

assist him in his district. >> and by highway patrol i serving the state police. a lot more than highway. >> that's correct. >> f. criminal investigation, all these other things i'm very proud of what they do. i sent a letter earlier this year expressing my concerns about certain dea investigative techniques. some of that information remains classified. some has been deemed a law enforcement sensitive. we do need more of a public dialogue. senator whitehouse and i have both raised of this, and will you, so will you cooperate with our committee's oversight? will you advocate for the executive branch for additional transparency with respect to dea's investigative efforts? >> senator, i'm limited in what i can talk about regarding those

programs, but it just be assured, we have had oversight of those programs since 1992 and we will work with you. i know that we have come up to breathe some members of this committee, and we will continue to shrink brief some of these members. to look at ways to improve and if it's found that additional oversight is needed, we welcome and look at what we have been doing. >> i think senator whitehouse and i and others will continue to ask questions about that. always worry when something is classified, but sometimes things are classified because they don't stand the light of day and we want to make sure that's not the case. i know some of these practices

have been suspended by the department of justice, pending the review, and that's what i mean about facing the light of day. sometimes they don't stand up for that. without going into classified matters we will discuss this further. i also sent last year a letter regarding the counter-narcotics operations honduras in 2012 that killed four civilians, including a 14 year old boy. the response to my letter of last year i received a response this week, and have you changed dea, these types of counter-narcotics operations as a result of the hundreds experience?

are you doing things to minimize casualties, especially civilians of? >> senator, i assure you that we have looked at that operation from many, many sides to figure out, number one, how to learn from that. number two, you know, working with our honduran counterpart, making sure we are providing them the best training that we can. i want to assure you that we feel very, very bad about any tragedy, and this with a loss of four civilians is included. me, going forward, however, have looked at ways that we can improve operational planning out how we can improve the training that we are given. >> corruption and other problems in honduras, i would hope that

you and your department would put for strict controls because if left to them we have real problems. and lastly, i've gone over my time, a farm bill has provisions for him to research by universities and state departments as hemp is used in clothing and other material. they do want to conduct serious research. not only my states but a lot of other states. when i going to provide guidance to the public and how to conduct this research? and will you work with the u.s. department of agriculture which is looking at the research here in the commercial nature of the use of hemp in clothing and everything else?

>> yes, senator. with the passage of the farm bill, as well as directive from the deputy attorney general from last august on priorities, use of resources for the department on marijuana cases. the department is currently reviewing both of those two better understand -- both of those to better understand how we need to go forward with hemp issues. and working with u.s. department of agriculture and other stakeholders, we will make sure that once decisions are made by the department that we put out guidance and that we work with the stakeholders. >> thank you. i apologize, senator grassley, for going over time, and i yield to him. >> i don't complain because you

always give me equal time. i'm going to repeat a sentence that i gave in my opening statement. it is hardly surprising that a senior dea official recently told the senate caucus committee on the international narcotics control that what was happening in these states, many washington and colorado, but maybe also i think by implication may be weather was medicinal marijuana is quote unquote reckless and irresponsible. so i want to go then to the cole mammal last august with the department of justice established a number of federal priorities the guidance marijuana activities and states that have legalized it. however, the memo also warned

that quote if a state enforcement efforts are not sufficiently robust to protect against the harm set forth above, the federal government may seek to challenge the regulatory structure itself. now, i don't agree that the administration should be talking about what they're going to prosecute or not prosecute, but if they follow closely whether or not the states doing with the justice department said you had to do it they were going to have prosecution, then that makes a little more responsible. so then leading up to my question, the first three priorities listed in the memo are, one, preventing the distribution of marijuana to minors, too, preventing revenue from the sale of marijuana go to criminal enterprises involving drug trafficking gains and cartels and, three, preventing

the diversion of marijuana to other states. some simple question, could you tell us what the trends are in colorado in these areas? >> senator, on those enforcement priorities you discussed, obviously dea and our local, state and local law enforcement's, partners, are concerned about marijuana going from colorado or washington to surrounding states. and we are very concerned about what we see happening in colorado. take, for instance, of kansas, and we talked to our partners in kansas and they've already been seeing a 61% increase in marijuana seizures coming from colorado. and these seizures were destined for 18 other states. they've also seen an increase,

49% increase in money seizures, of money going back to colorado that they assume were a part of the proceeds coming back from marijuana loads. so that is a great concern to us, as is the first priority which is preventing the distribution of marijuana to minors. >> now, in that latter point you've seen some of that very much advertise on recent news reports, about fourth graders selling marijuana for $11, an example. so i suppose -- when you said you are concerned about sales to minors, have you observed sale to the minors? like i've seen in the news reports. >> not only in colorado but other states that have marijuana dispensaries where we have seen that, those are, those are

instances give us reason to take action and we have. we've closed down dispensaries. we have done in investigations, and especially, you know, i'm thinking one in particular in california where we got a call from a school principal who warned us that a local dispensary had put notices on the cars in the high school parking lot advertising, you know, stop by. we also have complaints from citizens about their kids being stopped on the way to school and being given are asked to come into the store and being given samples. those are, those are what causes most of our investigation -- >> as a matter of summary would you say the trends are moving in the right direction or the wrong direction? >> the trends are what us in law

enforcement had expected what happened. >> okay. so doesn't end up being surprised to. as a follow-up to that, in my understanding that you aren't involved in the prosecution, or i mean in carrying out the department of justice recommendations on prosecution, but heavy talk to anyone at the department of justice who is monitoring what is happening in colorado for the purposes of reevaluating its decision not to challenge the state law? secondly do you know whether anyone that is actually doing so? >> i can tell you we have been talking with the department of justice and the u.s. attorney in colorado. in fact, on friday we were able to, based on indictment, we made arrests for exactly what we've been concerned about. for colombian nationals -- these

were colombian nationals who invested in a marijuana business in colorado. we took action. part of the investigation went down last fall and we were able to obtain indictments and make arrests, and there's more to come. so we have been working with the department and the u.s. attorney's office to bring cases that we at dea feel are significant and violate those eight factors. >> you think that some of things you just told me, has led to any discussion about revisiting the decision not to challenge of the state law? hasn't gone that far? >> i'm not aware of any discussion. i know the stakeholders within government, ondcp, hhs and

others, you know, we are finding a way to look at the data that is coming out from those states so that we are in a better position to assess what is going on. >> but then with that information being accumulated to advise people for prosecution, was not these state laws ought to be, these states ought to be left alone or not? that's what i was getting at. do you think it's been revisited by the people who originate the decision as result of some of things you can tell, if they listen to? >> i believe that they are assessing it. to what extent i don't know. >> let me go to heroin epidemic. i'm sure you would agree that enforcement of our drug trafficking laws is an important component of the federal response to our countries have when epidemic. so i asked the question about heroin trafficking.

firstly, i want to be clear about whether mandatory minimums are applicable to heroin users or dealers, the law currently applies a five year mandatory minimum sentence for possessing with intent to distribute 100 grams of heroin. so my first question is how many hits does 100 grams of heroin contain? and is that number of hits consistent with someone who is just a plain dealer? >> well, senator, to answer your question, this packet is a one gram packet. so 100 of these, depending on the experience of the user, because it would change if you're a novice user you will need as much. if you're an experienced user you will need more, and this

isn't taking into account what type of heroin in his are what part of the country this is coming from, but on average with one hit being about 30 milligrams, this one packet, 100 of these would produce about 33 to 3500 uses. >> okay. is that number of hits consistent with someone who's just a plain user? >> that come in our world, would be given a quantity, trafficking. >> i will have to end with this because my equal time is just about up. as i mentioned earlier, our federal prosecutors making these cases on the line everyday have told us that the system of penalties in place now is a critical tool for them to be able to dismantle drug trafficking networks to keep our communities safe.

do you and your dea line agents find the mandatory minimum sentence to be a valuable tool? and if so, explain wha why you consider it a valuable tool. >> having been in law enforcement as an agent for 33 years, a baltimore city police officer before that, i can tell you that for me and for the agents that work for dea, mandatory minimums have been very important to our investigations. we depend on those as a way to ensure that the right senses are going, be quite the level of violator that we are going after -- equate. >> tell senator leahy he can have 23 more seconds. i went over that. >> thank you very much, mr. chairman.

>> thank you very much, senator grassley. i have two questions that i will address now with the administrator. the first has to do with the development of your policies as prescription drugs and the abuse of prescription drugs, and particularly opioids prescription drugs dominates america's drug abuse problem. my worry is that as you direct more law enforcement attention to the problem and more regulatory attention to the problem, you may intrude on the legitimate and proper use of those prescription drugs. and i'm wondering what the structure is within dea for evaluating those concerns.

accounts while its death only a concern we address the abuse of these prescription drugs, it's also a concern if an 80 year old woman was alone in the world and living in, you know, a nursing home is in terrible pain at 2:00 in the morning and there's no way for her to get relief from her pain because we have made it such a fortress of regulation around her, that's how to get a doctor about 2 a.m. to do that and that's not likely to happen. how does the sensitivity to the concerns of elderly and other needy users of these drugs, legitimate users of these drugs, play into your calculations? >> senator, at dea where the office of diversion control, and working with them, it's very important to strike that balance. it's very hard but it's very important to us -- >> who was the advocate for that

balance within dea? >> id advocate for the balance, but so are the men and women who are working not only in the office of diversion control but even with her special agents in charge. i can give you an example. >> i mean more specifically in terms of development of this regulation, the our people for going to be involved in it. is there somebody in that class the task of trying to look at this from the legitimate users point of view and make sure that that point of view was brought into the discussion? discussion? >> several to that level of competitiveness on what regulation, but regulations that require rulemaking always have a comment period, and so the regulations that we have put out as proposed rulemaking, all of those comments have come back and we've had some of the

comeback with 200 plus comments. all of his comments are taken into consideration and addressed. so it's those comments and concerns are look at by the office of diversion control in coming up with a final rule. but they are also look at -- >> so the process is key to that because it's outside voices coming to the comment process that are really advocacy voice on this side of that balance. >> it's outside voices, but as the rule moves within the agency at a chief of diversion control level, he's looking at it and he has done a very good job making sure that there's that balance. and then before it gets to the deputy administrator for myself, areas discussion about impact --

there is discussion about impact of any rules we designed with the office of diversion control. >> just don't forget the elderly lady alone and in pain as you're trying to crack down very legitimately on these abused by regulated and lawful prescriptions. the other question is on electronic prescribing. the agency and i have had a long back and forth on this subject, and after a considerable effort and considerable time, ultimately you change the regulations to allow electronic prescribing of controlled substances which i think was a huge step forward. one of the values of that is allowing for law enforcement access to data that the system produces so that you know if a podiatrist is prescribed lots of

hydrocodone, maybe that's worth looking into. is the same individual is going to five different doctors and five different pharmacies and getting prescriptions filled for oxycodone, maybe that's worth looking into it if somebody goes from 50 prescriptions a month to 500, maybe that's worth looking into. but i don't see that developing very effectively between dea and the states. and i'm told that the office of the national quarter nader for health information technology is right now working to develop consensus standards for changing this kind of information with the prescription drug monitoring programs i'm not aware that dea is involved in that conversation. similarly there's a white house initiative called a national strategy for trusted identities in cyberspace which helps deal with authentication and other issues when you do with electronic information for i'm

not aware that dea is involved in that process either. are you involved in those processes, and should you be? >> senator, i will go back and check. on the first one you mentioned. i'm not aware of and we very well could be. on the second one, i know we've been involved in the certification process if that's what you are talking about. we have certified the companies that then you win and bless whatever technology will be used. so we are involved in the conversation but having been involved in the trusted ids, as you, conversation as you described, i'll need to get back to you on that. >> i look forward to working with you. i think the value of moving towards electronic prescribing for controlled substances from an enforcement point of view is to be able to identify peculiarities and outliers for

further law enforcement investigation. and if you're not engaged in getting that done, you're not helping the program go forward. i'll stop right here in in the tradition of going well over time and i yield to senator sessions. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i agree with you that prescription drugs as we described in mobile and number of years ago, it's something that can be controlled and i believe a united effort can make real progress. i hope you'll continue to work at it but isn't it true that a number of illegal prescription drugs that are found on the streets may actually have been paid for by medicaid, medicare or private insurance?

>> you are correct to senator. in fact, a number of our cases, we work with other agencies were investigating medicaid, medicare fraud. it's quite common in our diversion investigation. >> our little plan was simply for the police department, everybody arrested within a legal prescription drug, the case would not be -- until the totally got the drug. to drugstores are distributing drugs out the back door illegally. my experience in this area came when president reagan appointed the united states attorney in the early '80s and we commenced a communitywide effort to create a climate of hostility to drug abuse. at that time according to the authoritative university of

michigan study, over 50% of high school seniors acknowledged they'd used an illegal drug within the last year. that was a dramatic statistic but it threatened the future of our young people in every community in america. groups came together to educate, to try to reverse that trend. as a part of that those experts told us, law enforcement, effective prosecution, arrests of drug dealers, as well as an effort to create a climate of hostility to drugs were all part of the goal. and within 10 years the percentage of high school students using illegal drugs has dropped below 25% your that was a tremendous achievement. murder rate in 1980 per 100,000 was over 10, where as it dropped to under five, today.

we've seen a continual drop. i think even violence, would you not agree, is often connected to drug use and drug abuse the? >> you're absolutely correct that i think there's a correlation between the fact that we did approach the drug issue, not only from enforcement but also from a demand reduction and messaging point. i think there's a correlation there. 35% reduction in overall drug use since 1979, same with high school seniors, and we see that same drop in violent crime. so i do see a connection. >> are you see an edge upward now in recent years and drug use among young people? >> we were doing very good your query doing very good until the messaging changed, and we started to see, we had an exploding prescription drug

problem, and that has now become a heroin problem as well. but all the other numbers were dropping. like i mentioned in my opening statement, we have seen cocaine use drop to all time lows in this country. we've seen matthews dropped by almost a third -- math used drop by almost that there. i think it's a holistic approach, prevention on the front and, treatment and enforcement because a lot of people are not going to treatment without that natural law enforcement. >> without that night, that's what the treatment people and experts i dealt with said. some of the best come just to be able to arrest people and then your intervening in their destructive habit and you have a chance then to change their lives many times. i've seen the with the drug

courts and other type ideas. i veggie chili, you said the messaging has changed but i think some people here are responsible in what we are hearing about, particularly marijuana. i thank you are you and some of your people in dea and speaking out about the truth of marijuana. this is not a nondangerous drunkard i've got to tell the entrance of mouth, the president's statement -- meth, the present statement to me, i spent 12 years working with grassroots citizen groups to change the approach of drugs in the climate, and to make it hostile, a climate for drugs and explained the dangers of drug use. one year we met every single week, the mayors, the chief of police, the head of the mental health and we discussed these issues are and then this is why

it's so painful to me, and to every, every person who is dedicate themselves to give time, effort and money to reversing the drugs for the president of the united states to say quote as has been well documented i smoked pot as a kid and i view it as a bad habit and advice, not very different from cigarettes that i promote as a young person up to a big chunk of my adult life. i don't think it's more dangerous than alcohol. that's the president of the united states gratuitously making a statement of extraordinary importance. it has the potential to eviscerate the work of thousands of americans, hundreds of thousands really to try to explain the dangers of drugs to let me ask you, did the president consult with you before he made that statement? >> i have not talked to the president about that idiot. >> do you know if you talked to the drug czar, -- i've not

talked to the president about that issue. >> i don't think you talked to medical experts either. to tell us repeatedly of the danger, particularly the young people for marijuana use, much less others. isn't it true that you do go through trends where you have seen a move from prescription drugs to heroin? ..