they don't make money. a few of the big areas do come to the big schools do but at austin key it's a 9 million-dollar budget, not a 90 million-dollar budget. most schools at that level are startling and i realized unionization of their private university and not a state university but student athletes and i agree totally with you and mr. brush up a couple of things you can transfer now without loss of the time. if you go to one of the divisions or division two up

just to clarify for everyone. maybe judge starr what concerns me is at least one i played sports or was fun. it makes it sound like it's some kind of drudgery. goff is sometimes but for the most part sports are fun and that is why you play sports. as mr. eilers clearly said any added his experience as a as a student athlete and a made him a better and he mentioned it eloquently. it did for me. it taught me -- i learned a lot on the playing field i would have never learned in the classroom. do you think this ruling could potentially cause schools to drop football or sports? >> well we have to consider all the options in terms of the best interest of the university. i know that the president of delaware is said he was a student athlete himself, to that the university of delaware would not be able to continue its

public university so it really is raising a host of serious questions. i think it could in fact at a minimum caused programmatic curtailments. it raises the issues we talked about under title ix how do you change the title mind very important balance to achieve this is a matter of policy and as a matter of law. it is simply the wrong way to go to address these very important issues. the number of questions that are raised are so myriad, they are just remarkably wide-ranging. i don't think there's a real answer for most of these questions. the fair labor standards act and the antitrust laws themselves that were emphasized earlier so it's bringing us into a sea of complete uncertainty. >> i agree. excuse me, go ahead. >> if i might add the issue that mr. schwartz talked about in terms of the protection for entire leagues whether they help

along underwood won collective bargaining agreement is correct for professional sports. that does not exist in college sports. the nlrb only would govern 17 out of approximately 120 schools that play football. so you end up with a potential arms race for those that can afford it and others as judge starr said may decide to make an decision to get rid of it. the team so want to when are going to pay their way up to win. >> i think it northwestern u. nice as they will play 12 homecoming games. in the event that the student athlete ian isis and the can't agree on the terms and conditions as a possible of student athletes will strike? >> it's a tool in collective bargaining and that itself raises not only just the idea but it seems to be unthinkable that the football team goes on strike. what about the nonscholarship athletes and again that's the

incoherence of the collective bargaining agreement does that mean they also walk out on class if they are employees? what is their relationship to the academic enterprise? >> mr. eilers we will give you the final comment. as you said when i was in college students were true college athletes. there are many people use athletics to do what you have done to -- you're obviously an incredible athlete because you played professional football but i think your comments were spot on. that's the way we should look at it as a student athlete. you point out that some students play in the band. some may practice for hours. some go to rotc and they work hard and drum and other things. and so i will give you the final say on this. >> the gentleman's time has expired. brilliant timing. mr. corchran. >> thank you mr. chairman.

i think listening to the testimony most people i think would agree that what happened in northwestern was because the ncaa has created a vacuum in terms of students being treated fairly and if you look at the mission statement of the college athletes players association one of the mission statement items is to provide better due process and sanctions. again i represent the university of connecticut and we have a pretty exciting swing. made to incredible i think rage's comments during the course of the lead-up to the tournament number one describing in a way that might be embarrassing to some that sometimes he went to bed hungry at night and that's because of the nickel and dime mickey mouse in ca rules in of defining what universities can provide to students. it was almost comical to see mr. mr. emmert rush to announce a new rule on april 15 that now has changed and of course not

because of not because of what mr. ruth napier said that the only time thing that changes is the external pressure and effectively that is what i think this event at northwestern has. talk about the plight of students but for the actions of the students but frankly they are there times when the sanctions process is far more pernicious than missing a midnight sack. we look at what mr. napier said about us is the fact of what happens when you ban us. due process and i use that term loosely that the ncaa engages in far too many times shoots the bystander in an effort to trying comport with some measure of student athletes. that school was banned because of a cohort of students who had poor academic performance and there is no one to dispute that.

in 2007 not one player on that team was around at the university when those wars triggered a pr finding them with a four-year look at period. they were banned from postseason play because of a role that makes absolutely no sense and by the way other schools are doing a one and done system which try and explain that to the average person why that's okay and a student like napier is punished. he's going to graduate in a couple weeks. he's getting punished for something that's somebody he never knew seven years earlier in terms of their performance. that is where again i am very skeptical frankly the protections for students get swept up in this bizarre byzantine system of trying to comport with some definition of student athletes and with all due respect the witnesses i don't think the colleges and

universities because they have their own pressures in terms of not rocking the boat in the ncaa to step up and provide real honest to god advocacy for students who are getting swept up. perry jones the third was disqualified at baylor because his mother took three small loans when he was a high school sophomore before he even went to baylor and yet he was punished later on in his college career because his mother was in desperate financial system. no one wants to vouch for that but nonetheless why would he get punished for that except for the ncaa desperate attempt to somehow comport with the definition of student athletes. mr. schwartz i guess when we talk about treating people with dignity because that to me is what is so offensive about the way the ncaa violated patient rights and the power that they can exert. again it tramples on people's

ability to even just have basic due process rights when the sanction hearings and investigations and i was wondering if you could put your comments in that concept. >> i think it's a great step that the ncaa has started saying the school wants to get -- previously the individual choice to individual choice defeated napoli was prohibited beyond a certain number of meals. that's a level of cartel control here and you're exactly right that the issue is not whether benevolent organization will deign to provide the people who bring value with some crumbs. if advocacy. i don't know how james brown is quoted in here but he saying i don't want nobody to give me nothing. open up the door and i will get it myself and that's effectively what the movement is about. it's about saying give us some avenue. it's an ncaa violation to come in and asked for money right now is an example.

you get permanently banned. >> the gentleman's time has expired and i want to commend him the gentleman from connecticut for bragging without mentioning the basketball word. [laughter] dr. desjarlais. >> thank you mr. chairman. certainly appreciate all of you here today bringing expertise. i wanted to go to mr. livingstone first and ask a few questions. mr. livingstone the nlrb regional does gresser's -- directors state universities and state government entities are excluded from an lra coverage and that's the decision that applies to a applies to abortion and universities in each conference and division however state law applies to public colleges. what are the state and federal laws involving collective garden garden --

collective bargaining and are the subjects different? >> there are a variety of differences. the state varies widely. the in lra covers organizing rules bargaining determinations subjects of bargaining and the right to engage in economic action. all those differ under various state laws. for example somber habit public-sector bargaining entirely. others permit hoblick sector bargaining in limited terms. others don't have the right to engage in economic action. others for example would have interest arbitration say with a different subject being negotiated by different groups in different collective bargaining agreements. it ultimately would end up with individual bargaining and then on level playing field different terms in different contracts. then when those teams compete unlike in professional sports you have got something that i simply don't think is workable. >> i think that's an important point that scholarship athletes

organized bargaining over terms of conditions and employment. what terms and conditions of employment are mandatory subjects of darkening? >> i appreciate it comments we have heard from everyone today about the need for college athletics to improve, they have improved a lot in the student athlete but whether it's college athletes players investigation or any other union and the other union has of the right to go ahead and organize. under the national labor relations act they could bargain under a wide friday things. the statute wages hours and other terms and conditions of employment. that's so broad that it would cover compensation signing bonuses retention bonuses combat hours of work so in terms of schedules that protects potentially class attendance. while campus schools may be

limited right now if they are eventually certified as an organization based on member desires maybe they come but greater and any other wouldn't be limited to the goals we have for today. >> in the event that student-athletes unionize they will pay dues to the union. where do these payments come from? >> dues are an internal union banner so how they decided to it is up to them but under section 302 the labor management relations act is clear that employer in this case the university can't pay. the employer would have to bargain over check offer that comes from wages so unless we are talking about wages of some form the unions would have to answer that. >> we touched briefly earlier on taxation as universities and organizations are tax exempt. if the student becomes an an employer or they have been subject to taxation and if so does that affect pell grants and

ability the ability to get student loans? where do we go with that? how do we go down that road? >> that's beyond my area of expertise but i do believe that others perhaps can answer that question. >> does somebody else have a comment on that? >> section 61 of the internal revenue code has a very capacious definition of what his income sofa and individuals an is an employee then very strong arguments that are unsettled and obviously this is a new question but it's going to open up serious questions about the entire range of services including scholarship itself. there are issues presently with respect to how scholarship is treated but if they are employees that his compensation and presumptively taxable. >> if they are employees and you presume they would have to pay taxes on it i would presume that the goals of any scholarship negotiations and wage negotiations would be to increase that amount to take

into account the tax. >> thank you. i you bet. >> the gentleman you expect. ms. fudge. >> thank you very much mr. chairman and thank you all for being here today. i just want to make a couple of comments about things

students who are nonscholarship students. the first question i would really like to ask mr.'s wars -- schwarz you mentioned the level of profit that the ncaa is making off the student-athletes. do you know if any of that profit is dedicated in any way to providing health benefits to those students? see some of it is. i mean most on-field injuries the immediate cost of that injury is covered. it's not required but it is covered. long-term injuries that linger typically are less likely to be covered so it's not always the case. can i just add one quick thing real fast? >> very quickly. >> you mentioned since you're in college there has been a problem. the ncaa bow to them away in

1973. they have been claiming they have been talking about bringing them back since 1973 reed in 1986 something was tried that in past and in 2006 something was tried and they didn't pass it and now they are telling you it's coming real soon. there has been a long history of its coming real soon. >> bank you and the doesn't want these people to make a a living the little a living do little but there they can. i was around when the whole scandal at ohio came about selling their shirts. i would like to ask mr. starr and mr. muir what are your ask about coaches making your? >> it is substantial. it is a free market in so we want to keep our coaches. i can get those for you. >> would you please? >> i'm not sure of the numbers.

>> isn't a secret? >> is something that we don't share at stanford. >> i know the answer for baylor. the coach made in 2011, 2.42.1 million and the women's baskets call -- basketball coach made 3 million. >> thank you very much. mr. starr you mentioned earlier that obviously the goal of attending a college or university is to obtain a degree i'm assuming we agree on that point. do you also realize that for division i football athletes that men's basketball players their graduation rates across-the-board hover around 50%? >> at baylor its higher. it's 62% for men's basketball team but i do not agree ms. fudge. we create especially in men's basketball but to a considerable

degree in folk all as well this culture of student-athletes and it begins with the coaches. it begins with a head coach but the entire infrastructure has to be oriented toward that. at the same time these are young men and women who are making their own choices. they decide what's important for them. all we can do is create a culture of encouragement and genuine support. >> thank you very much. i will yields back mr. chairman. thank you all. >> i think the gentlelady. dr. bucshon you are recognized. >> thank you very much. i will be brief. anyone can answer this question. two athletic scholarships give potential academic opportunities to students who are otherwise would not have them available to them because of surely based on their ability to play a sport? mr. muir. >> i would say the opportunity to attend an institution like

stanford that both compete at the highest level as well as get a quality education we have lessened by% reignited this last year. 40,000 applications so when our coaches present young people than opportunity to come and compete at stanford its wonderful experience in our kids as soon as they get in the door understand and cherish that opportunity. as i said with a high graduation rate they understand they are part of it.

>> mr. eilers did i say your name correct we? you talked about how the debate should be about what's the best way to address the goal and i really appreciate that. i know that some of my colle@wqw have mentioned the importance of addressing the goals of the college athletes have set out.

i was reading an editorial that came out about the retail opinion who has said they have brought the problem on itself by not addressing players legitimate grievances. obviously the regional director found some differences between what northwestern is doing and what you described in your experience and of course mr. muir and judge sub board. i wanted to ask a quick question. i know mr. eilers you said you went to the calyx school program but you are not representing northwestern. mr. livingstone do you happen to represent northwestern northwestern? i was just curious about that. we have her different experiences here in different facts about your colleges like mr. muir at stanford is doing. what we are talking about is the decision that is specific to northwestern. one of the things that the regional director found was that

the scholarship players are identified and recruited and in the first instance because of their folk all prowess and not because of academic achievement in high school. is that similar? mr. muir you are shaking your head no. is that different from your experience at stanford? >> in identifying young people to potentially come to stanford as i said earlier the first process we have to go through is making sure they can pass admissions. and to make sure they can enter school just like the general student. we are weeding out individuals if they don't have the academic record. it doesn't matter what their athletic accomplishments are. they are not able to meet the needs of ensuring a good education is going to happen. >> always try to figure out from reading part of the regional director's opinion, what happens if a class, a scholarship player wants to take because of its major or i should say his or her

major because maybe this could be expanded to women's sports as well what happens if that class conflicts with practice? >> one i attended practice and iced tea -- see our student athletes practicing many times i will see a football student specifically walking off the field because they are attending a lab or attending a class and that comes first. >> and they are not penalized for that? they are permitted to do that? c. they play on saturdays as well too. >> was that your experience too? sacrifices made. i took organic chemistry one summer between my sophomore and junior year because of that fact and trying to take the labs. i would only submit one additional thing which is what i think stanford is as incredible and football and on the accident front. there was a brief moment in time before he ran into unfortunate

game against alabama in the national championship i was proud of notre dame having the highest graduation rate for football players as well as briefly being ranked number one in the country so you can do both. >> is interesting because the regional director i believe don northwestern has 97% graduation rate for its players which seems to breed pretty high. i want to ask also what happens during the recruitment process because i mentioned what the finding was about northwestern that they recruited because of their football prowess but what happens during that recruitment process? how are the perspective athletes actually made aware that all of the opportunities that are available to them, do how do they decide what they are considering during that consideration process? who informs them about whether they will lose their scholarship if they don't stay on the teen?

mr. muir and maybe judge starr you can chime in as well. >> first of all in terms of the recruitment process i have personally seen what that process looks like and it includes a very thorough introduction to here's the academic support. they will meet people from the academic support staff. they will see if their diagnostic test issued done by the university in terms have been a learning disability. so if there is a very holistic introduction to the university as a whole including usually the parents or parent or loved one is there with the prospective student athlete. >> my time has expired and i yield back. >> mr. rokita. >> i think the gentleman for your testimony today. i think from what i heard judge starr as he would being a former judge really clarified the issue and that is are we going to use

the nl ra as a vehicle for the improvements that you have all talked about today? i can imagine the authors of the law whatever the intent of congress was to cover this situation. let's explore a little bit. mr. livingstone if the students were to strike or the athletic department or university were to lock the players out like you have that a steel mill let's say during the collective bargaining process with the students be able to attend class? >> that's an unanswered question. the only experience we really have is a professional sports the entire league that typically goes on strike or is locked out. >> and professional sports. >> in college because we don't have it. >> in college you have classes. >> the what they have to vacate or leave class or start playing playing -- paying for?

>> certainly unanswered by law or regulations or anything else. mr. muir northwestern is in the big 10 conference is you know along with two schools in indiana one being purdue in my district. let's say that northwestern students student athletes were used to unionize and proceed to either strike or be locked out. how would that affect the rest of the conference? using her knowledge. >> not being at northwestern i don't know if it's appropriate for me to jump on that. >> i just say using your experience and knowledge what you think would happen? >> would be difficult to continue to schedulesand continue to have competition. >> at stanford were in a similar situation what would be the affects? >> of that was the case stanford might notçw3 opt to compete ate level we are competing at. >> to doctor roe's toy that he made earlier. my district has st. joseph's

college and i'm proud to be a board member of the division ii school. if i understand right you can share scholarships at that level. between students and limited funds again looking into your crystal ball will would be the effective division ii ii students with regard to this? >> i'm not a legal expert but if this students at division ii wanted to unionize i think that would dramatically affect whether institutions can continue to offer theseñr offerings which is part of the fabric of higher education. that would be a shame if that also changed. >> these questions in your answers continue to bring clarity that i don't think this law was intended. >> may i add something? we are talking about scholarships as a finite limit under the nate --

scholarships versus full scholarships is all subject to bargaining under the nl ra. >> understood, thank you. judge starr we often talk about on this committee ended businesses across the nation and in union halls about the cost of unionization and the cost of bargaining. the cost of deuces sector and whether not a union member should have to pay dues voluntarily or not have a choice in that. what do you think in your experience with the cost of unionization for the employee and employer's? can you estimate cost you estimate cost of students have leads at baylor for example? >> we have not punched through the numbers enough to even come up with a reasonable estimate. what we do now know is the whole idea of collective bargaining is in fact to the whole reservoir of duly agreed upon commitments by the employer so i think part

of the question is what can we do outside the collective bargaining which is never been contemplated before two in fact improve student welfare? that's the ultimate policy question seems to me that you have rightly focused on. the unionization process is raising a whole list of questions that we can answer today but we do know the cost of that will go up including issues with respect to how was that student going to be treated as an employee in terms of taxation and medicare and the like. >> my last question is for you judge starr. considering that the world is a jury watching today people might get the impression that big knowledge meant the improvements needs to be made is an acknowledgment that someone was caught for this just started as an action to this recent decision. can you give us evidence otherwise via your testimony? >> the gentleman's time has

expired. >> the gentleman may respond. >> the gentleman syme has expired. mr. scott. >> thank you mr. chairman. mr. schwartz in many cases the scholarship requires you to play in most cases. >> my understanding is until 2011 the ncaa amended to the scholarship could only be for one year with this in schools wanted to get one or not. if you stop playing during the course of a here's your continue for that year afterwards the scholarship would not be redeemed. >> some colleges you get a scholarship and you can continue with the scholarship whether you play or not isn't that right? >> if you choose not to play folk all the schools have the option per the agreement to terminate the aid. >> you indicated the number of hours that had to be committed. is the aptly required to comply with that schedule?

>> you no in the hearing the facts that came out the word controverted and i heard it's a 40, 50, 60 hour a week job during the season and half that during the off-season. >> can a student ever be before the ruling could a student be an employee of the college like if they were to the library something like that? >> students are employed by universities of all the time. stanford daily the editor-in-chief makes $45,000. >> now in that case is the students -- is the student is status does that affect his student status as an employee? >> yes students are mutually exclusive. >> it could be part of the financial aid project. we will make sure you get a part-time job at the library and that could be an essential part.

[inaudible] >> it's unlikely that if you quit your job at the library you will use the rest of your scholarship. that would be a little unheard-of would make? >> i think that's right. there are lots of ways that students outside of sports can be compensated. stanford there was a class that required students to sell an app on facebook and to commercialize it was part of the requirements of the class. they got credit for doing that rather than being -- losing. >> is it possible that some student athletes are qualified as employees under this ruling and others are not qualified? >> my understanding is the rule applies only to at ds football athletes who receive scholarships. >> now what would the difference be for those -- i mean if you have a scholarship with a couple of hours of weekend swimming or wrestling or some other sport

that is not the time commitment is it possible you would be a student athlete and not an employee? >> i object to the term student athlete because of the term designed to -- college athletes if they go to college and they play sports. >> is possible that someone qualified as employees and some would not. >> i think that's fair. >> of a college wanted to avoid the union problem they could treat them like college students and not like employees. >> i'm not sure if i'm fully understanding. >> if you got a scholarship for the chess club or something or band and are not required to put in these kinds of hours you would be a college athlete. >> the reverse is true. the chess team has more rights than a college athlete because the chess team could say i wanted college scholarship that covers more than just the

athletic scholarship. >> is possible under this ruling that some would qualify as employees and others would not? >> i think that's correct. >> misters eilers you indicated the issues of the right to scholarship medical treatment the right to minimize brain .hatkççx]çi]k?ñ? a union could engage these issues. if it's not the union who would be in a position in a bargaining position to engage these issues and have the resources actually to do the research and make a presentation on behalf of the

to make sure we are delivering for the student. >> the gentleman's time has expired. mrs. brooks. >> thank you and thank you all for your testimony. i am the daughter of the high school football coach and a mother of a t-1 soccer graduate from saber university who suffered a serious concussion in high school in the last game of her high school career and after wonderful medical treatment and

proper healing she went on to play for years of d1 soccer. now many parents and people who are helping these athletes get scholarships which they all work so very hard in their lives to achieve those scholarships, parents advocate for these young people. the students advocate. the student athlete at eyes or a committee of the ncaa advocates. i would assume the president of the universities and the representatives each of the conferences that represent the ncaa on your board are advocates for these athletes and i would submit that there are many avenues to rectify the problems and there are continued problems for college athletes. but these athletes make these choices as to which schools to attend. one thing we haven't talked

about enough is the role of the coaches and all of this process and the coaches who are employees of the university who reported the athletic directors reported the college president to report to the board of trustees what mechanisms are there in your universities for the students to voice their concerns with the coaches and the coaches to voice their concerns to the administration? i will star with you judge starr. >> we have a baylor a student athletic council. these are student athletes themselves to come together who are elected by their fellow student athletes so they have direct access not just to their coaches but the athletic director. they can communicate with someone who we haven't talked about the faculty of luddeke representatives who brings an academic perspective including revealing specific cases so you're absolutely right a there are numerous avenues for voices

to be heard. the ncaa the final thing i would say is the ncaa itself leaves in its governance historic it has not done well in terms of ensuring the student asked the boys. so there are reforms underway that i think will be adopted that will in fact better ensure the student athletes are there on the councils of the ncaa. >> thank you. mr. muir? >> we have an opportunity to hear from student athletes and former coaches. the student athlete counsel at stanford i just met with at my home two weeks ago. it was a chance for me to check in on their concerns and how we are doing and it's important. also we survey our student athletes after preseason and provide feedback. they can do it anonymously and we have information on just how the experience is going and also the coaches have an open door policy. we look for that and select their coaches and the properly worship. we think we have one of the

largest leadership develop programs on the campus of that's an opportunity for student athletes to engage. we have administrators, concerts and tutors on a united front to make make sure they are traits is the best that it can possibly be to allow her athletes doing gauge. >> is it fair to say there are coaches imparted in their success and part is judged on the graduation of athletes? >> we are we are obviously looking at the graduation rates and what they are doing to make sure that they are solid citizens in a part the university fabric which is what we talked about earlier. >> i know there's always a tension when student athletes have to leave and may miss classes were tested in labs and so forth but as judge starr indicated there has to be a relationship with the faculty in the athletic department does there not in order to ensure those students take the test that they get the proper reinforcement and in addition to study halls.

i know my daughter there were numerous study tables have required student athletes in order to achieve gpas and those where requirements that they must achieve a certain gpa to get out of the study halls. are you familiar with that mr. eilers at notre notre dame? >> wasn't proactive like it is today if you started and you didn't perform well you got sent to study hall. today everybody starts in study hall. i am aware of institutions that aren't -- take academics seriously and their coaches to have provisions in their contract if they don't graduate their student athletes there are negative implications to their salary in their career. >> thank you. my time has expired's. >> i thank the witnesses today. mr. eilers i'm impressed with the way you agree with me on the

concerns and the goals but you have a concern about unionization. i wanted to point out here these concerns have existed for decades. i wish you had an idea to unionize because it seems totally frustrating. these are not new problems, are they? >> no not at all in this he said the issue of cost stipends has been around since 19731 by collective of the ncaa took them away. >> agri there are a lot of advocates out there but apparently has not been very effective. how is that been going for you advocating all this time the problem still exists? >> it's a one-sided discussion. >> there was also comment that the college athlete has choices. what would you say to that? >> i'm advocating for much more free market and an opportunity choice would be great. congressman rex mentioned that students have have choice for what they don't have a choice about is the full package they receive because the schools fix

the price on what they offer. everyone offers the same thing. >> the ncaa $3.2 billion in revenues. they can even address five basic issues except to say that it's coming soon? >> could i had one thing? the idea that this is a money using industry is incredible. if you look at a money industry you wouldn't see rising pay for employees. you wouldn't see firms flocking to enter the industry. 19 schools have entered fbs and none have left. unc bonuses that are 10 to one for sports results instead of academic results. the money is in the system. it's just that it's being denied to the primary generators. >> you made another point. you said money is being funneled to football coaches and some

coaches are paid $7 million on that. when the coaches in louvre increase financial aid effectively puts a cap on that and the price female athlete matching funds. >> title ix does not apply to coaching pay and that is why male coaches can make so much more than female coaches. it applies to financial aid applied to students so that aid is capped and the ncaa says they wish it were higher the lifting of a cap on male athletes would result in effectively the effectively matching funds to female athletes of the cap on men also results in a cap on women. >> mr. starr i want to go to some part of your testimony. the amount of financial aid must be in the same proportion as the intercollegiate sports participation rate of male and females. but when i look at the data from the department of education web site is shows baylor spends 56

cents on male scholarships for every dollar put 44 cents on women scholarships. the participation rate suggests it's based on 42 cents per men and 50 cents for women. apartment education tells us there's a disparity of one percentage point you have serious explaining to do and i want to give you the opportunity to explain the disparity between this collection of dollars for the men versus women at baylor and the participation rates of men and women. >> that's a very dynamic process so that may change from year-to-year but if there is in fact a disparity and i accept what you have said it has to be addressed. we have to come forward with explanations as to why there may be a temporary disparity. we recently created two new women sports with scholarships in order to contrast that disparity. so we have for an example created a question in with a number of scholarships for

women. we have created acrobatics and tumbling. >> are you saying you believe this is a temporary issue is that of the year-to-year thing and are you saying that wasn't some knowledge of this or are you guessing? >> i don't know the specifics of that specific disparity so that is information to me. what i do know is academic athletic department does have to focus on is whether title ix compliance office. we have a compliance officer who refused these kinds of issues to determine. >> i'm just disturbed the ncaa answer to all these issues is wait for the next decade or two and we might get around to it and even on the title ix questions its we are working on it. i think we all should be concerned on that. >> i agree with you and i have the same frustration. that is why i'm here today. i would love to see this implemented in the one thing i didn't want to from the table when i was a student athlete at notre dame trying to prepare to

play against michigan trying to prepare for class i couldn't conceive when this came up trying to think about threatenings to strike for getting to saturday morning at the football game and not need in the locker room because demands were being met. i don't think the student athlete needs that incremental burden but we have got to get there. >> apparently the conversation stops there was some sincerity area. >> the gentleman's time has expired. mr. walberg. >> thank you the panel for being here. i didn't participate in a regular sport great i was an olympic sport but wrestling in high school and college university for the time that i did that was probably the best training for life that i ever had. i did it out of the joy of the sport. i did it by choice. i suffered four shoulder surgeries as result of that in the later years of my life but i look back and i would do it all

over again. i appreciate also an aspect that there has to be care taken for athletes and i respect what you said about your concerns already on that. mr. muir in your testimony you stayed stanford has taken steps to cover medical costs for injuries promote player safety and research prevention and affects of concussions. could you elaborate a little bit more on those steps and are these consistent with ncaa rules? >> they are consistent with the rules and we have our stanford medical team doing a kook concussion study. what they have told me as is this research is going to be lengthy and today we can say here is how we prevent that from happening. certainly they are observing that and they have medical malfeasance. each student athlete track where

the blows come from and there will be an ongoing study for us in that regard. across-the-board in terms of the overall student welfare of our student-athletes that is something we hold close and dear to us and it's important we try to enhance those things as we move forward with their student athletes competing at this level. >> do the student athletes understand this? are they made aware of the opportunities, considerations, programs? >> they are testing testing ands who are wearing the mouthpieces are the ones being educated on the risks involved and certainly with the research we are trying to do and there is obviously great discussion about what the future holds so that something they engage in and i think it's been worthwhile to have this leadership role. >> along that line stanford has taken steps to support scholarships and support students were medically disqualified from playing. what are the steps? >> for example we have three

incoming athletes who are worded scholarships. they were not able to finish their senior year in competition. we still honor those scholarships and we look forward to them can to bidding -- contributing once they are healthy and we have had other athletes who were injured and we still honored their scholarships at the end of the day. first and foremost we are here to make sure that they get their degree regardless of whether they continue to play or not. >> what about baylor? >> the same policy in place. we do in fact care for student athletes and their football players. if they are injured the scholarship continues and we also believe we have a moral obligation to them with respect to an injury sustained in football even post-graduation. >> notre dame as far as you know mr. eilers? >> as i arras i know notre dame is consistent with the other

testimony. >> mr. muir and mr. eilers i would like you to comment as well. this year it appears the ncaa will revisit the stipend issue. we have talked a bit about that. what is the major concern with the stipend from your perspective as

they are able to far exceed their expenses and makes it difficult. i do think we are making progress but it's going to take more time. >> mr. eilers. >> i was fortunate my parents ripple to give me out-of-pocket expense money when i was on scholarship at notre dame. my little brother was there two years younger than me chris george. he became a college all-american and played with my last year at with the chicago bears. he had no out-of-pocket money because mom could not afford it. he came down to people his teammates, his mentors to make sure he could go out to dinner with us do laundry as such are

off campus. i just think that's wrong. >> i had my first wrestling win at chicago. >> the gentleman's time has expired. mr. byrne. >> thank you gillman. i'm the former chancellor post-secondary education for the state of alabama. i'm also a former labor lawyer who represented nor mars -- numerous clients on a number of occasions. so this issue fascinates me. i have dealt with it both ways. our two-year colleges which is what the post-secondary education department does deal with does have athletic or grams. in fact we have golfer in my district named bubba watson. of what went on to the university of georgia but he started at an alabama to your college and we are very proud of him but we are also proud of all the student-athletes.

the vast majority of them will never do a bubba does though we hope they come to us and get a good education. now, mr. muir and judge starr you know when we are dealing with students in that environment they bring their life issues with them. they may be students come to they may be athletes but they are also young people and they have life issues and we have coaches and counselors that deal with them on stuff that happens on the field and stuff that happens off the field. you can't take them apart. they just come together like that. i guess what bothers me about this whole issue and i want to share the concerns i've heard about the ncaa. but i see that is a separate issue frankly. i think we are trying to use the wrong tool to give that some of those issues. what concerns me is the students organize and we have to deal with a union representative instead of the student what does that do to the application and

the responsibility? i know you all feel it from your institutions -- to deal with the student-athletes with their life issues in the stuff that is not direct we involved with whatever they are doing off the field. what is that due to them? >> i think would be very disruptive. you're absolutely right congress meant that the relationship is a very individual relationship and it's not just the coach or the coaching staff. is that entire battery of support services. it's that tutor but it's also the faculty member. it's also the representative to the student athletic council. at baylor we have a fiber and chapel c. program so there is the spiritual dimension as well so trying to channel everything into the age of 18 to 22 a set of labor law issues of wages and terms and conditions and so forth seems to be very artificial and arbitrary and not serving the ultimate interest of

the individual student athlete. >> mr. muir do you have a vantage point on that? >> i think about the relationships we build with young people and it starts prior to coming to college. now it's becoming a sophomore or junior year of high school. others say when they get to the seniors and in that carries them out only for the four or five years they are on campus but we want them to have a relationship with us once they graduate and have a degree. that relationship is so important to us and yes we do have students of other issues that need to be dealt with. how do they cope and manage but they feel open and for the majority of them they are able to come to someone here in the university setting whether faculty member at coach administrator and that's the beauty of the college environment. i think that's really important for us to keep in mind as we move forward. certainly as we know that there are many issues that need to be addressed and i think we are going to work our way to getting those done.

it's always evolving evolving. crs is questioned to legal counsel here. you have heard the vantage point of people dealing with the student-athletes on things that go far beyond what happens in their actual athletic work if you want to call it work in this environment. is the end lra the right tool to deal with the issues that people seem to have with the ncaa? i will say this the ncaa -- least dark creating a bigger definition of employee it's going to affect a lot of people not just people who are governed by the ncaa so is the and lra the right tool to do this? >> mr. byrne that's a great question one of the reasons why don't think that applies under the n lra employees have certain rights and the policies that judge starr and others have talked about based on recent

decisions they would clearly violate them. the coach requires his players to be a facebook friend. the school has monitored facebook did they prohibit media interviews. recent court cases have made it clear that violates the rights of any employee whether they are in the union or not sought all 70 schools close the frame walk we are talking about violates the nlrb. it's just not the appropriate tool. >> the gentleman's time has expired. on my agenda is says we are doing closing remark so i'm going to yield to --. >> mr. miller. >> i think this is a very important hearing. america is in the throes of celebrating on a daily basis socially and economically and anyway postel -- possible entrepreneurs and those who take risks.

the list of grievances that these players presented is a list of grievances the players could've presented five or 10 years ago across the college community but they haven't been addressed. these players are put in the position of being on the edge all the time. scholarship, no scholarship, play, don't play. that's an interesting place to keep your employees to you care so much about. these players might play better if they had more certainty in their life. the ncaa doesn't let you do that as a university. we have remarkable examples of universities and programs. you know you are not typical across-the-board in high-stakes football in this country. we know the athletes are not typical. the fact is you are graduating people but we also have clusters of athletes that go to certain classes for certain reasons that may not have, may not apply

toward the graduation. they stay eligible like taking the classes. i'm not holding you responsible but we know this landscape. that is why the knight commission was set up to look at the landscape. no easy critics. out of the industry but the fact of the matter is that this landscape has changed magically. i've been in congress wanted to know that when i have seen tough issues on the academic side and they thought congress might get involved in the accreditation or what have you very often you don't meet the college president. he made the college coach and we know that the education journals sports journals shows are constantly debating this question who is the most powerful person on campus for president or the coach? we know all hell can be paid for the mishandling of the hiring or firing up a coach.

these concerns of these young men were willing to take a risk on exist on every campus. whether or not you have the security of the scholarship for how long. whether or not you will have health insurance. whether not what's going to happen with your injuries if you wish or scholarship? we have been over this. we have been over this and over this over this thread. i think i hope the first concussion hearings. this is not proper for public discussiodiscussio n. this is a sport. this is volunteer. people play until we started to see the extent of the damage. i worked with many nfl coaches and many nfl players. we couldn't get to first base. i had coaches come and tell me the documents are here. we know what is taking place here. finally the players association went to court and we know the

rest is history. that's just the beginning. the fact of the matter is the determination was made that it was better to run the organization the manner in which the way the owners wanted to run it then to deal with these issues. i imagine it could change the game. it is change the way people portrays it. they don't rerun those big hits because it obviously has a different reaction today. they know that's a damaging hit. they know there are consequences to that but before that was highlights. highlights now our liability so we can have all the credit pray to for a pulse about what could happen with unionization. why don't we think about what could happen if you took care of the problems of the student-athletes. and not the conference. understand there has to be rules and regulations. we see arbitrary decisions made all the time by the ncaa.

i remember talking to sports journalists. why are students who had nothing to do with the infraction losing their rights? if you think you're going to the nba are going to the nfl and you can't get a playoffs wherever that is focused on your performance. that's a huge punch. they're upholding their morality of a vision of football and they are going to show that they're really tough on the school? they were tough on a bunch of students who weren't there when the fracture took place pretty think there's a lot to think about on campuses. we spent a lot of time in this community with higher ed and approaches we take. i think you are here because surely there's in this field. you are not immune from this. the list of easy classes that nobody knew existed and there but he said in happen to the professor said i'm glad it was on there. they said no, they major in

eligibility. i guess the senate is going to hear from ms. william of north carolina? i don't know if she is here or not. there you are. senator rockefeller are going to hear this and you all know we have been through these panels before. you can really get unionization like the nfl like nba. you had better address the problem. this is college sports not ncaa. it's college sports and i appreciate. tested on the sidelines. i was so proud there and happen to be with the big donor of usc notre dame in los angeles. the most exciting moment of my life. i played a lot of football but i never played at that level. so we know the influences here. we know the influences here. there are student-athletes i don't think you treat the other

students like this on campus. i think somebody had better take control of the situation and most of the journals i have viewed the president is losing in this war against coaches for the say and standards on campus. mr. schwarz is right this is like that cap and comes in california. it's always calming but it never arrives. the ncaa just can't make these decisions and yet so we get these arbitrary actions against institutions and the students and in some cases against the -- against the coach now none. there's there's a lot to think about here. i've been here 40 years. i've listened to a lot of people deny the problems and go to the symptom which is in the case in decision to join the union. a rational decision and there was no other outlet for them. i wouldn't be so concerned about

whether or not they are going to vote. they are not going to go out on the field on saturday. i remember talking to bobby knight when the networks decided they needed a midweek game and now we have depending on what conference and in how many days of school you miss. you can keep defending it. i would work on changing it. thank you very much mr. chairman for this hearing. >> i thank the gentleman. and i want to thank the witnesses. a lot of expertise conquer real knowledge. appreciate everything offered. quite a diversity and experiences and positions here. somebody who was a top level college athlete and then went on to play in the nfl has very strong feelings and opinions about these issues and as pointed out very eloquently. mr. eilers that we have problems out there is mr. miller again

passionate pointed out the

that we need to address those issues we talked about and again that mr. eilers talked about so eloquently. the question is, is unionization of some sports some players in some schools the appropriate tool to get to that and? i have been very clear to say that i don't think that it is and we need to then focus on i think all of this perhaps in congress and certainly those of you in the field as it were as athletic directors and college presidents and those

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the house is debating legislation that would change some of the rules regarding charter schools in the united states and alyson klein is education week reporter. what type of rules with this house bill change? >> guest: this bill would make it easier for folks to have a track record starting a high-quality charter schools to proliferate more schools while also making sure that charter schools serve students in special special education and english-language learners. those are two populations that charters have sometimes been accused of ignoring. >> getting a sense that the fairly bipartisan bill there are amendment split evenly between democrats and republicans. what are some of the ones we should watch for a? >> some of the amendments we should watch closely are amendments imposed that have the strong support of the national education association which is officially neutral on this bill

but wishes it went a little further in terms of accountability for charters. one of the amendments which is introduced by rep castor would require the secretary of education to basically develop and enforce conflict of interest guidelines for charter schools and another would set aside money for state oversight amendment introduced by an represented moore race be alyson klein mentioned in the national education association or tweet on that said some nea backed amendments including on charter caps and one on open meetings and financial disclosures weren't accepted. what is the level of support like in the white house for this kind of legislation? >> the secretary of education arne duncan testified before the house education committee that is where the bill goes basically excited to work with lawmakers

on this bipartisan issue. >> one to get your take on the article you wrote in education week. the headline says as house has considered charter legislation key senators write their own bill so is the senate version drastically different from what the house will do? >> it's actually virtually identical. they're a couple of changes. the senate bill gives more flexibility to charters and using a grant to cover the cost of facilities and would also steer more money to charter organizations. those are the groups that grow charters and operates more than one charter. it would steer more money to those organizations then the house bill with. but those are pretty minor tweets. >> i less inclined covering education issues for education week covering the debarred on -- the debate and you can read more and on the politics k-12 blog there and on twitter. that is our handle politics

k-12. alyson klein we appreciate you joining us. >> thanks for having me. ..

>>ñr >> so when i first came into the united states in the late '80s crossing the border between mexico and the united states into the san what keene valley, it was noted challenged to find the job. there were not thousands of people to get the job to pull the weeds that are now doing brain surgery

[inaudible conversations] >> we are ready to get started. a. [inaudible conversations] >> the committee will please

come to order. we have convened a hearing to consider the nomination for the next department of health and human services secretary. thank you for joining us today for your prior services to be willing to take on this enormous responsibility. ms. burwell is serving as director of omb that she was confirmed by a vote 96 oscillation zero in 2013 she is ineffective and dynamic manager with experience and skill to meet a wide range of organizations. i had a very productive meeting and concluded she is an impressive nominee and qualified to serve as the next secretary of health and human services.blic united states faces serioushich challenges that require urgent our -- users often give the to hhs for leadership. just last friday we saw a

the first incident of mers within our borders. a and with the cdc.even i might just add the cdc is a gold standard for public health in the world. wo i was just reminded the other day that china has named its public health system china cdc. will count on secretary for exactly that kind of informed decisive action in the face of future challenges and crisis and provide a steady hand overseeing an incredible range of activities across the department. for example, she will be responsible for research efforts at the national institutes of health among other agencies. this federally sponsored research has made the united states the world leader in biomedical innovation and has resulted in countless discoveries and breakthroughs from the extraordinary application of genomics and

understanding of the human brain. ms. burwell will also be in charge of another long-time priority, at least of mine, and that is disease prevention. she will lead our nation's efforts to transform our health care system from a sick care system into one that focuses on wellness and prevention. not just at the doctors office but in our schools, our workplaces and our communities. ms. burwell will oversee the food and drug administration, a critically important agency that protects and promotes public health by keeping our nation's food and medical products supply safe among other things. in fact, fda now oversees ie se tems accounts for over 25 cents of every dollar spent by americans. the department ensures we can meet the health care needs of our most vulnerable services through programs like community health service programs and the head start program. the secretary's also charged with oversight of programs that

support millions of americans with disabilities. medicaid makes it possible for many with chronic disabilities to remain in their homes, or to go to work or school, to be active members of society. in tandem the administration for community living implements policies that help people with disabilities to stay in their homes, to stay in their neighborhoods and places of work with the result that people of disabilities in america are healthier, happier and have a better quality of life. and of course ms. burwell will have the critical role of overseeing implementation of affordable care act. we can be proud thanks to the affordable care act we have seen 4.8 million new medicaid enroll ees, more than 8 million americans have signed up for health insurance in the marketplaces but there's more work to be done in successfully implementing the law and reforming our health care system, as i said to move from a sick care system to a true health care system. so the list goes on and on. i think i made my point that as

secretary ms. burwell will shoulder incredibly important responsibilities that matter deeply to the health and wellness of the american people. and i believe this has an impact on our present and future economic strength as a nation. so we look forward to hearing from ms. burwell today about her vision and priorities for the department of health and human services. we welcome this opportunity to question her about many of the issues this committee will continue to oversee going forward. i also wanted to mention that senator frank and member of this committee very much wanted to be here but is attending the funeral of former congressman jim overstar today. with that i'll ask our ranking member senator alexander for his opening statement. >> thanks, mr. chairman. ms. burwell, welcome. glad to have you here. since i'll have the opportunity to ask questions later, let me use my five minutes to tell you a story. when i was a boy, my grandfather

was a railroad engineer in newton, kansas. he drove big steam locomotive switch engines. he'd drive an engine on to the roundtable headed to santa fe and turn it and head it in the direction it ought to be going. he headed to denver, he headed to houston. that's what republicans would like to do with our health care system. we'd like to turn it and head it in the right direction. we want to repair the damage that obamacare has done and prevent future damage as responsibly and rapidly as we can. we'd like to move in a different direction, put in place proposals that would increase freedom, increase choices and lower costs. we trust americans to make these decisions ourselves. we believe that is the american way. four years ago congress and the president made what we believe is an historic mistake. they passed a 2,700-page bill, we said we don't believe in that

trying to rewrite the whole health care system, let's go step by step in a different direction. more freedom, more choices, more costs. we take you back for a moment to the health care summit at the blair house four years ago. three dozen members of congress, six hours with the president there, all of it on national tv. i was asked to speak first for the republicans. i said what was wrong with the president's plan. i and others said it would increase health care costs and it has. "usa today" reported that health care spending the first quarter of the year rose at the fastest pace in nearly 35 years. hill paper reported that insurance executives say premiums in new exchanges will double or triple in the country next year, even with subsidies. many americans are finding that the copayments and the out of cost expenses are so high they can't afford insurance. we said people would lose their choice of doctors and many have. we said obamacare would cancel policies and it has, at least 2.6 million americans have had

their individual plans outlawed by obamacare. and millions more of americans who get their care through small businesses will find the same thing happening to them. we said it would lose jobs, it would cause jobs to be lost, it has. the president of costa rica is hosting job fairs welcoming medical device companies that have been driven out of the united states by the onerous 2.3% tax on revenues. we said medicare beneficiaries would be hurt, they have. the average cut per medicare advantage recipient will be $317 between this year and next. we said the only bipartisan thing about the bill will be opposition, gallup says that level today is 54%. i said every senator who voted for it ought to be sentenced to go home and serve as governor and try to implement it. and there are 16 governors today who won't implement the medicaid expansion because they worry about costs. but the most important thing we said is what we would do if we

could. we said let's go step by step in a different direction. our democratic friends said that's not a plan, that's not comprehensive. we said you're right, washington's not wise enough to make these decisions to rewrite 23% of the economy. if you're waiting for senator mcconnell to wheel in a wheelbarrow with a 2700-page bill, you'll be waiting until the moon is blue. and at the summit we outlined our steps. for example, we said if you like your plan, you could keep it. as the president did. and we suggest removing some mandates to make that possible. if you find a policy in another state that fits your budget and health care needs, you can buy it. if you're a small employer, you can combine your purchasing power with other small employers to offer employees more cost insurance. we would allow any american to buy a major policy to avoid a medical ka castrocatastrophe.

if you're an employer we'd make it easier to give employees rewards for leading a healthy lifestyle. ms. burwell, you have a reputation for competence. and i would respectfully suggest you're going to need it because if you're confirmed, you by yourself supervise the spending of nearly $1 trillion a year, which is as much as the entire congress of 535 men and women appropriate every year. we hope on this side of the aisle in the next congress we have a republican majority in the senate and we'll be able to do for our health care delivery system what my grandfather used to do in newton, kansas, for those trains that were heading west, we'd like to head them in a different direction. as i said, republicans would like to repair the damage that obamacare has done. we'd like to prevent future damage as responsibly and rapidly as we can. we want to move in a different direction to put in place proposals that provide more freedom, more choices and lower costs.

we trust americans to make those decisions for ourselves. we believe that is the american way. since obama will still be in office for the next two years, if you are confirmed, we will need your help to do that. thank you. >> thank you very much, senator alexander. now before i introduce ms. burwell, we'll call upon two distinguished senators who are here in order of course of seniority. i would first recognize our friend and our colleague senator mccain. senator mccain, welcome. >> thank you very much, senator harkin. and i hope that senator manchin appreciates that more than he does today. i thank you, mr. chairman, for allowing me to be here. many of us in this room as senator alexander just pointed out disagree about the merits of obamacare and what the path forward should be to reform our health care system. i long along with others fought

for 25 days on the floor of the senate against obamacare or the affordable care act. first amendment was one that i raised to stop the nearly $500 billion in cuts in medicare that was in the bill. and i continue to believe that the affordable care act should be replaced and modified. but notwithstanding that disagreement i'm pleased to introduce sylvia burwell, who's been nominated obviously as secretary of the department of health and human services. her previous experience as deputy director of the office of management and budget during the clinton administration as well as her work with the bill and ma linda gates foundation, the walmart foundation, her current work as director of omd, and i have no one who does not have but the highest praise for her work as director of omb, make her well-qualified to be secretary of hhs. i'd like to add that i visited,

mr. chairman, dentville, arkansas, while secretary burwell was there. i was briefed by her. i would recommend to every one of my colleagues a trip to bentonville, arkansas, to see an incredible american success story from one store in a small town to the world's largest retailer. ms. burwell was part of that team that maintains the predominance of walmart as the number one retailer in the world today. to say i was impressed would be an understatement. and last year sylvia's stew ardship of the walmart foundation which made last year $1.3 billion in charitable donations, she was the steward of that and nothing but the highest praise for her activities in that capacity. regardless of my objections to the affordable care act, the department of health and human

services need competent leadership in the position of secretary. i believe ms. burwell has the qualifications to run hhs and have the assured that she will work with members of congress as she has as director of omb and be more responsive to its members than her predecessor. when sylvia was nominated to be director of the omb, i said that position of director of omb is perhaps the toughest job in washington. the position for which she is currently nominated is perhaps the most thankless. that's why i advised her against taking the leadership position at hhs. after all, who would recommend their friend take over as captain of the titanic after it hit the iceberg? obviously, she ignored my advice and accepted the nomination anyway continuing her pattern of public service. and you know the scope of her responsibilities far in excess just of hhs, medicare and

medicaid services, food and drug administration, the national institutes of health among several other divisions add up to $1 trillion budget with 80,000 employees. she will have her work cut out for her. i recommend strongly ms. burwell and hope the committee will endorse her nomination. i thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you very much, senator mccain, for being here. i know you have a busy schedule. if you need to leave, please feel free to, but thanks for being here. appreciate it very much, senator mccain. and now we'll turn to senator manchin, who probably has some good words to say about a person from henton, west virginia. senator manchin, welcome. >> thank you, mr. chairman. and thank you senator alexander and all of our colleagues here. let me just say that first of all, senator rockefeller wanted to be here. he wasn't able this morning, and i'm just so thankful and honored to be able to set here on his

behalf and on my own behalf and for all the people in west virginia that we're so proud. i want to put a little bit of a personal touch because sylvia comes from where most of us come from. when you talked about the railroad, senator alexander, she comes from a railroad town. she knows about turning that engine. she knows about basically that round house. that's where she comes from. and this is a lady that has done it. she knows how to do it and she's watched it. we're all a product of our environment. every one of us. you throw back to where we came from, how we were raised, the families we were raised with, the communities that nurtured us. hinton, west virginia, is a special place. it's the most beautiful, right along the new river, big blue stone dam is right there in her backyard and people fish and enjoy the recreation, all that. sylvia's father, dr. william matthews, is the town optometrist, well-respected. he is a first generation greek immigrant.

came with the hard working ethics that we come from when people are wanting the american dream. and her grandparents were seeking that. her mother, the honorable cleo matthews is a very dear friend of mine. when i say honorable, i mean that in every sense of the word, she was the mayor of hinton, tough. senator, you and she would get along absolutely to a "t." and she kept -- when i was governor i never had anyone i enjoyed those conversations, the phone calls from her mother letting me know what i was doing wrong and how i could fix the sta state. and i took most of those to heart. her mother was a math teacher. the most respected math teacher. so everything you see in this young lady is because of her environment. it's how she was raised. raised. she's grounded. she calls every week back to her friends. two of her closest friends she grew up with from first grade on. and stays in touch.

she's a rhoades scholar. i don't think any of us would question her ability. and also her performance as a public servant. just think what she could do in the private sector. if basically fortunes was her driving goal, where she could be today. it's never been that. i think that every time we've had a chance, we've overwhelmingly nominated her. unanimous the last time in one of the toughest positions. we're not here and i'm not here to change anyone's mind on what they believe about the affordable health care act or obamacare, as you will. that's not what we're here to do. we're here to get the most responsible, the most talented person that can lead us. senator, i think you said it well. who can get that train moving in the right direction. who can sit down and listen to each one of us. we all have concerns. we all want to see it better. we want our fellow americans to have good quality health care and access to it.

we want to make sure that it's workable and we can -- it's affordable. and we don't have a person that understands numbers better than sylvia. a person that has more experience than sylvia. and more compassion for america than sylvia. because she's proven it in what she has given up in the form of just monetary means, which seems to be driving everybody today, to give back to public service. which is what we all were -- instilled in us. i'm honored to be here. on behalf of every west virginian, let me tell you, we are proud. we are proud. and she has served her country admirably and made all of us proud. made every american proud. i think she'll do the same. as you consider whether you like the health care and don't like the health care, i would hope that your vote would be based on who do you think is the most competent person that could take us through the most troubling, difficult, challenging times to make sure that we can deliver

the services that americans depend from all of us. so with that, i'm honored to be here with her. she is a dear friend. her mother is watching right now. and i hope i said all the right words. i hope, dr. mathews, you're proud as i am. thank you. i recommend her wholeheartedly. >> i gather that. senator manchin, thank you very much for that strong endorsement, for being here. again, i know you also have a busy schedule and you're certainly excused if you so desire. thank you, senator manchin. well, a lot has been said about your past. it think it bears repeating for the record. sylvia mathews burwell, presently director of the office of management and budget confirmed by the senate on april 24th, 2013 unanimously. ms. burwell previously served as president of the walmart foundation. before that she was president of the global development program at the bill & melinda gates

foundation where she worked for ten years. she was also first chief operating officer of that foundation. during the clinton administration, she served as deputy director of omb. deputy chief of staff to the president. chief of staff to the secretary of the treasury. and staff director of the national economic council. before her federal government service she worked for mckinsy and company. ms. burwell served on the board of the council on foreign relations and metlife. she received her a.b. from harvard university. a.b.a. from oxford university where she was a rhoades scholar. and has been said many times, hails from hinton, west virginia. ms. burwell, welcome. thank you for your long career of public service. and your statement will be made a part of the record in its entirety. and the floor is yours. and i know you have some family and friends here. if you would like to introduce them, we would be more than receptive to recognize your

family and your guests who are here. >> chairman harkin, ranking member alexander and members of the committee, thank you for inviting me here today. i'm honored that president obama has nominated me for secretary of health and human services and it's a privilege to be considered by this committee. with me today is my sister, my brother-in-law and two friends as well as my husband, steven. i want to thank senator mccain. [ applause ] >> i want to thank senator mccain and senator manchin for their kind words. and i'm honored to be introduced by such extraordinary public servants. i'm especially grateful for my husband, steven, and our children. for their tremendous support. and while my parents can't be with us here today, i also want to recognize them for instilling within me the enduring value of public service. as a second generation greek immigrant, i was raised to be thankful for the tremendous opportunities that this great

nation provides. and to appreciate the responsibilities that come with them. throughout my childhood in hinton, west virginia, my father, an op tromtist and small businessman and my mother, a teacher, set a great example for me and my sister. through their engagement in service through our community and our church. it is that example that's an important part of why i sit here today. whether in the public or private sector, working across a wide range of issues, i focus my work on three things. building strong relationships, building strong teams, and delivering results. in my role as omb director, i've worked closely with members of this committee and others to support efforts to return the budget process to regular order. and to drive towards progress on the issues we all care deeply about. if confirmed, i look forward to working alongside the remarkable men and women of the department of health and human services.

to build on their work to ensure children, families and seniors have the building blocks of healthy and productive lives. these issues are fundamental to all of us. whether it's the chronic condition of a child we love or the safety of the food we eat every day. so i respect and appreciate the importance of the challenges before us. as we meet here today, scientists and researchers at the nih are working to find cures for some of the world's most serious diseases. and experts and the centers for disease control and prevention are working to prevent them from spreading. the food and drug administration is protecting the food we eat. and the medications our doctors prescribe for us. our parents and our grandparents rely on the centers for medicaid and medicare services, and millions of our children benefit from headstart. thanks to the administration for community living, millions of americans are living with dignity in their own

communities. the departments work to ensure accessible, affordable, quality health care through the implementation of the affordable care act is making a difference in the lives of our families and communities while strengthening the economy. together, all of this work forms the foundation of a stronger middle class, a more prosperous economy and healthier communities. mr. chairman and members of the committee, thank you again for the invitation to speak today. and also thank you because i have valued the conversations that i've had over the course of the past several weeks. and i'm hopeful that we will have the opportunity to continue to work together closely in the months ahead to deliver impact for the american people. and with that, i'd be pleased to answer your questions. >> thank you very much, ms. burwell. we'll start a round now of five-minute questions. ms. burwell, as i mentioned in my opening statement, i've long been focused on the critical

importance of transforming what i've always often called our sit care system into a health care system. one that doesn't just focus on repairing the damage, but prevents it in the first place. keeping people healthy. that's why i was proud to author the prevention title of the affordable care act. along with senator mccull ski, we worked very closely on that together. the prevention and public health fund. dedicated funding stream -- a dedicated funding stream designed to promote prevention and make communities across america healthier. investments from the fund have supported a range of prevention initiatives. supporting critical obesity prevention programs, incredibly successful tips from a former smoker campaign, and many, many more. of course, we know that these investments not only improve and save lives, they are also good for the nation's fiscal health. ms. burwell, will you ensure that community-based prevention efforts are in the forefront of our nation's health agenda, maximizing the impact of critical investments from the

prevention and public health fund and the health of the american people? >> senator, first, thank you for your leadership in this space. in the prevention space. in my current role i have an opportunity to work with you on these issues as well. and the issue of prevention, i think, is an incredibly important one as we think about our overall health care system. and it's something that i think in the past hasn't received as much emphasis, and it is something that is both important to contributing to better health, but also better costs within the system. if i am confirmed, it is something that i think is very important. i think we want to work in the federal system to promote prevention. i think we also want to build on some of the efforts that are currently occurring in the private sector where companies are doing this type of work, too. they're measuring those results, and i think there are things we can use there that will help increase what we're doing in the public sector as well. >> thank you, i appreciate your commitment to that and understanding that -- that prevention is not just in the doctor's office. it's in schools.

it's in communities. it's in workplaces. it's in every aspect of our life that we have to address that. and as the secretary, you have the ability to reach in all those areas. secondly, and it's sort of in keeping with that theme of prevention, last week former fda commissioner jane henny wrote an op-ed highlighting the urgent need for action on the part of both the government and the food industry to address the amount of salt in our food supply. dr. henny noted that it has been 44 years since the white house conference on food, nutrition and health issued remgtss highlighting the role of sodium in the development of hypertension. it's been four years since the institute of medicine released its report recommending that the fda use its regulatory authority to require industry to lower the sodium content in our nation's food supply over time. and, yet, despite the fact that upwards of 100,000 lives could be saved annually if sodium

levels in packaged and restaurant foods were cut in half, inaction continues. in the same article dr. henny points to your nomination as an opportunity to, quote, reset on this critical public health issue. and i certainly hope she's right. given the extraordinary public health potential, how will you work and will you commit to work to turn the tide on this issue of sodium reduction? >> senator, the issue of sodium reduction and the broader issues of things that we consume and how that affects our health, when we think about those issues, and if i'm confirmed i think there are two things in thinking about them as a priority. the first is making sure that people have the right information. having been a part of a very large grocer in my last role, that's something that when one works on nutrition issues and healthy eating, which was something during my time at walmart, the great for you label was introduced and is on products that tell people.

so one is about the information. people knowing what works and doesn't work in an easy way. when you're in the grocery store for people buying and purchasing, the average time is very limited. people are working. they're going home. they're on their way home and doing it. providing the right information is one thing. i think it's an important part. then providing access and tools. because for some people, the issue of healthy food, it's an issue of access. so as thinking about those issues, i think it's an important priority, the issue of sodium. if confirmed i want to understand more deeply what has been going on and what has not been going on but those are two broad principles as you think about this broader issue of what we eat and consume that guide the way i think about that. >> i appreciate that. information is important. it's also important for the fda to issue regulations as they have in the past on food and the contents of food and transfat and everything else. but we haven't yet done anything really on sodium. and so i hope that through your

agency, the food and drug administration, it will take a look at that, too. >> thank you. >> thank you. senator alexander. >> thank you, mr. chairman. ms. burwell, in my remarks i talked about some proposals that republicans have to move our health care delivery system in a different direction. one that more emphasizes choice, freedom and hopefully lower costs for americans as they buy health insurance plans. let's talk about a few examples. for example, obamacare outlawed about 5 million individual health care plans. the administration reacted by saying, if you like your plan, you can keep it for a year. giving states that option. then i believe they've said now for two more years. and that has cut about in half the number of people who had their plans outlawed. would you be willing to extend that option further to give states a chance to allow people to keep the plans that they had?

>> senator, when i think about the implementation of the affordable care act, there are three fundamental anchors that i think about. one is issue of accessibility. the other is the issue of affordability. and the final is the -- >> ms. burwell, i only have five minutes. so what about -- what about an answer to the question. would you extend the three years that you now allow states to have to -- to help people keep the plans that they want to keep? >> why i was mentioning the three goals is because i think any actions that are taken, one should view in the context of implementing against those core goals. right now the changes that have been put in place are changes that are a part of a transition period as people are transitioning to a point where we can implement a system and that's a system where pre-existing conditions are covered, where women and gender issues can't be discriminated against. >> is that a no or yes? are you just -- >> senator, at this point i think we want to see what is

happening with regard to the issues of implementation. >> let's take another example. buying across state lines. there's a young woman from tennessee named emily who came to see me. she has a plan that cost her $53 a month. that tennessee had created. it was outlawed by obamacare. she went on the exchange and even with the subsidy she's now paying 450. it has limited benefits, but it fits her health care needs and it fits her budget. if kentucky had such a plan, even though she lived in tennessee, why not give her the choice of buying that kentucky plan? >> would you favor that? >> if confirmed that's something i want to look into and understand. when one looks into that question i think what you have to consider is can the markets work in each of the states. so when you go across states, can you still keep a system up and working and care being provided. >> i was thinking more about more choices for emily. you know, so she could buy a plan that costs $50 or $60 or $70 a month instead of $400 a

month. another idea. former secretary schultz has suggested that obamacare care allows, i believe, americans under 30 to buy what we call a major medical plan to avoid a financial catastrophe. so you can sleep at night knowing you won't go bankrupt if you have a major problem. why not let any american buy a major medical plan against a financial catastrophe and combine that with expanded health savings accounts? that would give every american more choices and -- and more opportunity to buy plans that fit their budget and fit their health care needs. >> i think the issue of quality health care plans is an important part of the affordable care act. that there are certain things that should be part of basic health care. and that is a part of creating a system that will work. one of the things that i think is a challenge is making sure that all the pieces fit together so you do do the things that in your opening comments you talked about with regard to both cost

and access. >> one of the major reasons emily's paying so much more for her policy is because washington is deciding for her what she can afford and what she needs. and what i would like to do is give her more choices. what about -- i'm a former governor. what about giving states more flexibility with medicaid? when i was governor, it was 8% of the state budget. today it's 30%. and 15 governors won't even expand medicaid. why not give -- why not trust states to give individuals more choices like the cover 10 plan that emily had, the lady. why not expand that flexibility as a way of giving more choices and lowering costs? >> when the question of how we work -- how one works with states and if i were confirmed, the issue of how cms does work with states, there have been a number of examples where flexibility has been granted. whether that's arkansas or other examples. i think flexibility is important. i think principles are important. and where you meet in that space of having enough standardization

that meets the principles, but flexibility to meet the varying needs of states is something that i think is important in how i would think about that issue. >> my last five seconds, this comment, we had a conversation last week about getting answers from your department to reasonable questions about the implementation of the affordable care act. if it's good for mcdonald's to advertise how many hamburgers it sells, i think it would be good for the department to advertise who's buying the premiums, whether they had insurance, everything. and we certainly need to know that ourselves in the congress. i would simply ask you to focus on answering the questions that members of congress ask you as we go forward. thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you, senator alexander. i have in orderer, senator warren, senator isaac san, mccull ski, robert, enzi, murphy, baldwin, casey and sanders. i'll recognize senator warren. >> thank you, chairman harkin.

thank you, ms. burwell, for being here today. ms. burwell, there seems to be broad bipartisan agreement that we need to reduce federal health care spending. and republicans argue that to accomplish this, we need entitlement reform. but they shouldn't forget that we passed major entitlement reform just four years ago as part of the affordable care act. and that it's already working to reduce medicare spending. so i just had a couple of numbers to look at. in 2009, before obamacare, the medicare trust fund was projected to go bankrupt in 2017. today, the medicare trust fund is solvent at least until 2026. moreover, every congressional budget office estimate of medicare spending since the aca was passed has continued to show bigger savings, that's bigger, not smaller savings, than the report before. in fact, last month cbo projected that medicare spending for 2014 to 2020 will be $500

billion less than they originally projected after the bill was passed. and put that in perspective, that's a cut in federal spending, which is six times bigger than all of last year's idiotic sequester cuts, which slashed vital funds to basic scientific research, to headstart, to meals on wheels. and the republicans want to repeal it. so, ms. burwell, my question is, we know that reductions in medicare costs are the result of many different factors. but as an expert in federal budgeting, do you think it's fair to say that an important factor in the efficiencies created by the affordable care act has resulted in these reduction in costs in medicare? >> yes, i do. and i think specifically when one looks at the cbo numbers, what one sees for the period of 2014 to 2020, which is the

period -- since the affordable care act was passed. because that was the window cbo has scored. health care costs for the federal government have decreased by $900 billion. over that period. and i think that is an important contribution to the issues of -- hopefully those are changes that do two things. reduce cost and maintain quality. and hopefully in some cases even improve quality. so the implementation already of the changes of the affordable care act are reducing the deficit and providing great savings. the only thing i would also add is, the current budget proposal that is before the congress right now from the president, t the ak shares say that proposal will extend the life of the trust an additional five years. and there are choices and changes that would be part, that have been proposed by the administration. but that bill is on the number that you already articulated,

2017 to 2026. >> thank you. i think that's important. also i want to ask you another question about building on the successes of the affordable care act. that is that the aca established the center for medicare and medicaid innovation to test new payment and delivery models that encourage coordinated care such as bundled payments. they state health in western massachusetts is part of a bundle payment project. and their private health care system has successfully used this model for years. by bundling payments for hip and knee replacement, for example. they state health reduced the cost of treatment by over $2,000 per payment. while also reducing hospital readmissions and complications. it's not an isolated case. cbo projects that applying bundle payment models like base states nationally could save medicare about $46.6 billion over the next seven years. so the affordable care act gave

the secretary of hhs the authority to expand successful demonstrations to a wider range of health care providers so that we can cut costs without compromising care or improve care at the same cost. and i just want to ask about your strategic plan for using your statutory authority to expand these efforts where the data demonstrate that we can get better outcomes at lower costs. >> with regard to my philosophy, and i think it's important to have things be databased. having had the opportunity to do grant making in my other roles where one sees and creates models. what i think you want to do is you want to find the models. there are, i think, conditions with regard to which are the most successful. and then which are the most likely to scale. because that's what we need across the nation. and you have to consider both questions when considering what you would scale. because what you want to do is get the largest impact you can. that impact is a combination of both what the measures are of