take a report, say they are investigating. mothers hadt these no one doing anything, i think that is what is hitting people's hearts. host: or clan as

as he knows that he is as you are economic transformation, people have no choice but to go the and. >> and in cubit. the national labor relations were voting to allow college football players western university union and one from a house or he is and unionizing him now was her or he would hear from you what is the committee will come to me we appreciate you and your he share your expertise is

in value we way to stay told is dead leads leverage their athlete and pursued a different dreams. for others most student-athletes, playing a college sport is a ticket to an education and when that happens institutions must step up most institutions are doing that in spending by their athlete for the long

haul. no athlete injured should be left behind because of the misplaced priorities can we do more to protect students? >> yes, we can give them a greater role as we govern this to help ensure that work entry doesn't harm that student's career and find a responsible solution that will deliver the health care the players may need. promoting change is often difficult. but we have addressed concerns. does that mean that unionizing student athletes is the answer? absolutely not. when we signed the national labor relations act, strengthen roosevelt declared a better relationship between labor and management is a high purpose of this act is hard to imagine president roosevelt up a lot when they apply to the relationship between student athletes and academic institutions might that is precisely where we are.

a regional director recently ruled football players at northwestern our employees of the school for the purpose of collective bargaining and the ballots cast on election have been encountered by the full board. so given the track record, i suspect the board will rubberstamp this, setting a dangerous precedent for those colleges and universities nationwide. ..

i the schools read the mason difficult decisions? finally, how well other politics affect our higher education system? cause campuses prepare for micro union jack r. administers eclipse to bargain with competing unions? will students be able to make an informed decision about joining a union? while attending class and going to practice? these are tough questions that should be discussed before students and administrators are forced to confront a radical departure from longstanding policy. we should concern the place where of -- the challenges

facing student athletes should be addressed in a way that protects the athletic and academic integrity of higher education. the recent decision takes a fundamentally different approach that can make it harder for some students to access to quality education. i strongly urge the obama board to change course and encourage key stakeholders to get to work. i look forward to today's discussion that will now recognize the senior democratic member of the committee. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i am glad we're having a hearing to better understand what is happening in college athletics air at the very legitimate grievances. the nostalgic days when student athletes really were students first and when college sports was just about learning teamwork, self discipline, and sportsmanship but getting some exercise with friendly competition. those days are pretty much over. during the last four decades colleges and universities to the

n.c.a.a. have perfected the art of monetizing athletic choices other best football and basketball players and teams will steadily encroaching of players' academic opportunities. they have created nothing less than a big sports empire. branding agreements, prime time sports shows and celebrity coaches with seven figure salaries. our nation's talented athletes have become commodities within this empire. there are units of production that are over scheduled and overworked, left without safeguards further help then say becoming tourist to put their education on the back burner in favor of success on the field. some athletes have figured this out and they're starting to ask really silly questions. they want to know what happens to them if they suffer a catastrophic injury on the field that leaves them with a lifetime disability. will they lose their scholarship ? and with it the chance for

education and career? how much of their health care will they and their families need to pay and a pocket? they're reading about new studies, the long term effects of head injuries and want to know of the schools and coaches are doing all they can to prevent congestion and ranger rick perry will be held come first and the decision is being made about whether or not they're fit to play, or will the team's desire to win trump health concerns of the individual player? they're raising questions about the adequacy of the scholarships and the restrictions that leave them with little or no support for out of pocket in incidental expenses that they face. why are some teammates finding themselves unable to afford enough food to eat our books for their glasses while the university makes millions from their effort? it want to know why so many players did not finish their academic programs. they want to discuss the affair transfer policy. how can policies be changed to support the players' success in academics, not just the athletics. the national labor relations board decision regarding north western university football players documents and of

consuming sometimes eye-popping demand of a college football player in today's net profit driven n.c.a.a. horrible. northwest and the daily life of a popular revolt around practice in preparation. commonly a 40 to 50 hour week commitment with any glasses or hallmarks reasons of. you can see that sample sketch is displayed here on these screens. underneath the screen. excuse me. players are expected to report by 615 monday morning for their medical by 7:00 a.m. and then pads and helmets until noon. at night they meet with judges to review game films. and the agility drills, conditioning, weightlifting, workout, playbooks command steady in between. in the beginning of the august training camp through the grueling 12 weeks season the postseason will play into mid january, warmest the fed you're winning edge we to mandatory

spring workouts to high-stakes about preparation done not academic obligations become the focus of these players lives and the obsession of their coaches. meanwhile players worry about the health and safety, financial future and prospects for jobs. the big business empire of college sports is doing well. revenues are up 32% in the last six years, and many universities are hiking tuition and fees by turning to underpaid, over stretched adjunct faculty and cutting student services. so the ncaa and the the ball programs are making more money and the athletes are getting less and less. in the end this a classic labor dispute. the ncaa empire is holding all the cards, making all the rules, capturing all the profits. the hardest working most valuable system, left with little to say, little leverage domino blocking or tackling but themselves. by banding together and bargaining these athletes in when the kinds of things union workers have demanded and won across the country, a say about

avoiding serious injury, medical benefits and security if something goes wrong in a meaningful in foot it -- input fit into how they will balance the work. their academic needs and their other responsibilities. respectful treatment and care they so richly deserve. i look forward to today's hearing in hearing from today's witnesses about how we can do more to help support these hard working employees. >> i think the gentleman. pursuant to committee rule seven see all members will be permitted to submit written statements. without objection the hearing record will remain open for 14 days to allow statements got questions for the record, and other extraneous material reference during a hearing to be submitted in the official hearing record. it is now my pleasure to introduce our distinguished panel. in light of my failing voice and a very long residents of our witnesses i will be extraordinarily brief thaw. starting to my left we have the hon. can start, president

chancellor of baylor university in waco, texas. bradford livingston, a partner juan in chicago annoying me. a partner at a 0skrllc in emeryville, california. mr. bernard is director of athletics for stanford university in stanford, california. mr. patrick tyler's is managing director at madison dearborn partners in chicago illinois and former minnesota vikings. okay. i could not stop. before i recognize you to provide your testimony let me briefly remind everyone of the five men and lighting system. been the system is pretty straightforward. when i recognize you, you will have five minutes to give testimony. the light will be green. after four minutes they will turn yellow. i would hope that you would be looking to wrapping up the testimony when it turns red please wrap up as expeditiously

as you can. we are here to listen to you. you are here to give us the benefit of your expertise. my colleagues, when we get into our five minute questioning session please try to be respectful of the other witnesses and rapid testimony. all right. let's start with one the hon. can start. sir, you are recognized. >> thank you, mr. chairman. was an honor to be here to discuss this very important issue. i served as president and chancellor at baylor university. president and ceo since june of 2010. at baylor university we're located in waco, texas. it is a private christian university. it is ranked as a high research comprehensive university, and it is a vibrant community home to

over 15,000 students, including over 600 student-athletes. baylor is a founding member of the big 12 conference and established in 1994 we sponsor 19 varsity teams. we are very blessed at baylor to have student athletes to succeed him, but in the classroom and on the playing field. over the past three years barely university has been the most successful division one program and combined winning percentage is football and men's and women's basketball. but these accomplishments cannot counter ultimately mean in terms of what we emphasize at baylor. as commencement approaches next weekend on our campus we are celebrating our academic accomplishments. facts, we gathered together among the evening. baylor's federal center to do exactly that, to honor our

student athlete performance in the classroom. during the prior academic year, mr. chairman, 86 percent of from seeing a student athletes at baylor receive their undergraduate degrees and many have gone to pursue advanced degrees. this past fall semester to our student athletes to achieve the cumulative gpa of 327. these are remarkable times. the reality is is that even in these best of times college athletics, including at baylor, is not a profit generating activity. it is not generating profits for baylor, nor for the vast majority of institutions of higher education it.

the regional directors recent decision at northwestern university has characterized our student-athletes as employees. this is an unprecedented ruling, as the chairman noted. in our view it is misguided. the term student athlete is real . we would invite members to come to our campus and see for themselves. it is their relationship with her parents, and -- which provides college education. but a student athletes are first and foremost do and stuff but are expected to be and required to be of far removed from professional sports. dedicated to each and every students welfare, including our student athletes. at baylor and across the nation student athletes benefit from a wide array of services that are specifically designed to

maximize their potential as students and then to repair this -- prepare the student athlete for their journeys and life after college. these services and bra rams contribute significantly to their ultimate academic success. they include academic advising, degree planning, career counseling, many institutions, including baylor, provide very high-quality academic support such as tutoring service, computer labs and steady lounges we have study of. student-athletes also receive specific financial benefits which progress to a degree of completion. these traditional benefits are very familiar. tuition, room, board, fees, books, and other related educational expenses. what is the purpose? the purpose in offering financial assistance is to encourage our student-athletes to carry on and to complete their academic work.

the vast majority do. the nlrb has expressed a view through which we agree with. in this instance the regional director hasn't set mechanically and we believe erroneously applied a rigidly would contest not withstanding, as the chairman suggested, the absence of any congressional intent to include college athletics as an employment lynyrd. now, the decision by terms applies only to private institution, but it does create an economy. for example, the decision that northwest university is nonsectarian. nlrb hester bit -- has been struggling in various dimensions with religious liberty limitations. we should reasonably expect some

private religiously affiliated universities to challenge the board's authority to be regulating institutional missions expressly granted in a religious world view. a second and more structurally significant is that decisions implicit exclusion of state institutions and intercollegiate athletics, private universities which compete with state institutions and likely create many discrepancies among the nation's universities. >> thank you, mr. livingston, you are recognized. >> good morning, mr. chairman, members of the committee. as a supreme court has noted, principles cannot be imposed blindly in the academic world. while i fully support the purposes in allowing employees of freedom to choose other are not to form a library in and bargain collectively the nlrb itself is recognizing the

problem of attempting to force the student university relationship into the traditional employer-employee framework. that problem is apparent here. the university's primary mission is to educate its students, including student-athletes. some athletes are neither hired by a college of providing services for compensation. athletes are students who are participating in programs with the dual role as both student and athlete treating these participants as employees can changes them from students who are student athletes to professional athletes who are also students. even if student athletes could be considered employees, and the term is undefined, employees deadest complex with the remaining principles contained in an act. consistent with labor agreements from other industries the college and the union can initiative of the scheduling and duration of practicing, distribution of playing time, scholarship allocation by dollar value and blair position.

with a non bargaining unit player, in this case what conns, they have the right to perform are any work. a broad range of such a stir wages, hours, and other terms and conditions of employment described. they could likewise negotiate over academic standards including minimum rate pay average, class attendance requirements, the number and form of examinations, grievance procedures to challenge it professors grades, and even potentially graduation requirements. and unlike the statutory requirement to my college cannot refuse to bargain over changes to its own merit conference or ncaa rules guaranteeing competitive and balances. if college football players were employees in making clear that they may organize.

the petition for a unit will be considered appropriate. the remainder of the pop scene shares an overwhelming community of interest delivery in six to represent just the team's offense, perhaps just as quarterbacks. sparks compared to what will happen when college teams compete under different work rules and professional sports every team is a private employer and the nlrb jurisdiction. the major professional sports leagues have their own multi employer collective bargaining agreements that cover the leak. those agreements provide a relatively level playing field whether there were salary caps, minimum wage for rations, free

agency, a drug testing protocols to leave a revenue-sharing. creating rules for student athletes at only 17 schools. fewer than 15%. almost certain that the regime will not apply to the remaining 80% some states expressly regulate. other states have no laws or private public sector bargaining . the bill before ohios house of representatives clarifies that steven athletes are not employees. conversely to connecticut legislators indicate that they

will introduce legislation stating that their public athletes are employees. without a unified agreement to every college team must fend for themselves philippe. institutions are not as robust. pretty competitive and bounces. roman not an appropriate vehicle to address student athlete concerns. this soon athletes as employees covered by the nlrb is simply unworkable. mr. chairman and members, i thank you for the average it is

a share my thoughts. >> thank you. >> chairman, ranking member, thank you for allowing lee to testify i am an economist to specialize in antitrust and the economics of college sports, a partner with the firm 0skr. as the members of the committee know the nlrb authorize an election. cisterna want to provide a few facts to the 40 to 60 hours per week during a five month season. they're not supervised by faculty, and the pa is not a direct part of the curriculum. and is in this panel is focused on unintended consequences, want to use when the biggest threat to college sports to whether

current price-fixing cartel. price-fixing focuses on out to reenter and 51 division was schools stifle healthy economic competition to collision to impose limits on all forms of athletes. an enormously popular consumer product is jerry's passion for fans and billions in revenues from schools for broadcast television networks. a professional sport industry. reporting over 3 billion in revenue. basketball added another one and a half. individual athletic departments regularly generate more revenue than almost all nhl and nba teams. former mca president explained that maximizing revenue was the only responsible path for college sports. that is exactly how of fiber business should behave.

there is an economic dark side to college sports that comes from collection to of collective action. the nlrb in the antitrust laws work together to ensure that when sports leagues and athletes form partnerships negotiations are fair and either choice is valid. unionize collective bargaining pat or more free-market approach . given the one-sided power imposed by collusion it is not surprising that players have turned to labor law and unionization from modicum of countervailing bargaining power. other american sports involve a leak negotiating with the union to achieve a competitive out company believes generally encourage innovation. the nfl players went to court to demand they remain a union. i focus on the athletes free-market value. they focus on very different things, educational and safety

components, better medical coverage, head trauma, improving graduation rates and establishing an educational trust funds to ensure at least in venice degrees. because of time limits will summarize my point. because most athletes to not go on to work in the nfl in see a collision effectively denies 99% or more of college athletes of the floor best sports and years of their entire career. for some the maybe the four best. money that would go to male athletes instead falls to coaches and into labor recruiting palaces. college football coaches can make as much as 7 million a year . it deprives women athletes of title nine matching. collision shifts the burden from a private school to taxpayer funded pell grants, sometimes even food stamps to buy forcing them to of the school. the current tax-cutting cents from taxation the tuition

portion of the athletic scholarships as well as tuition remissions paid to university employees as part of a broader compensation package. nothing should change that. finally, the ncaa limit consumer choice for the centrally planned one-size-fits-all product offering. i also want to say that the term student-athletes was created to dutch legal responsibility and to avoid economic competition. the resources for new tv deals alone is sufficient for an orderly transition from a command-and-control economy to a market-based. until that right is respected for college athletes of course there will seek a collective alternative. an athlete who has bargained individually or collectively to insure is well fed, given real

access and provided with health and safety rules that lower the risk of serious head trauma or lifelong disability will be in a better position to benefit from kutcher education and ivory or concussed athlete forced into a dead-end major hit. thank you for your time. >> thank you. >> chairman, ranking member, member of the committee. i am pleased to be a. my comments are specific to stanford. the hotel eliminate some of the larger issues. we offer a 36 sports got 20 for women : 16 for men.

we're very proud of the athletic achievements of our student-athletes, will and i want to emphasize in my testimony as morning, we never lose sight of the universe is larger mission. stanford is a university first and its academic mission comes first. the believe the most important thing for student-athletes walk up the door when they leave stanford is a stanford degree. 97 percent of our student-athletes achieve this goal. the athletic experience is not pursued at the expense of the academic experience or separate and apart from it. each enhances the other. one out of every eight undergraduate students and stanford is a student athlete. this is not a separate group. simplesse is the laboratories, undergraduate houses, the same exam schedules, even if they

need to take a proxy examination on the road. stanford is not admitting anyone saw. standard reviews each graduate holistic we looking at the academic excellence they have an evaluation. our student athletes demonstrate how important they view as stanford education by taking all the steps they need. as to brief examples, andrew lack of the end up -- in annapolis colts, both by passing the opportunity to leave stanford with the year of eligibility left and into the professional sports world. instead they remain at stanford to complete their degree. fair.

the overwhelming majority of our student athletes will not go on to our living in professional sports. there will provide an outstanding success. the academic grounding is solid and it did teach, strategy, team dynamics, problem solving, and other capacities critical to success. i discussed all of these issues more extensively in my written testimony before. i want to address a related question. net revenue, the vast majority are 36 were still not. all of the revenue that the university receives is used to support the overall athletic program including a 7 percent of student athletes to participate in as of the 34 sports. we use these revenue to support athletic aborigines for the broad cross-section of students, both men and women providing

opportunities is important to us. at the close but discussing how we address the needs and concerns of steve netflix. we work hard to ensure about their academic and athletic experiences are excellent and properly supported. issues we are already addressing . we're always open to making improvements that are within our purview temper of the rules on issues such as minimum academic progress as delicious that include interest. i hope to strengthen benefits' of progress such as ours will be considered as a national discussion continues. melson recognize they're is a variation on these issues and that while i have been speaking today at the stanford and may

well be differences of lacerations. stanford stands ready to talk with and work with others who are likewise interested in continually improving experiences. thank you. >> ranking member, members of the committee my views on the ongoing quest. before i do so i would like to make it clear that my comments they are strictly my own. i do not speak for nor do i represent these institutions. i speak only for myself. i graduate from the university of notre dame in 1989 with a bachelor of science degree in biology while a student i played

four years of varsity football and a varsity baseball. that transfer from yale university and head of its years of academic eligibility. so i transferred to another than to pursue excellence in the classroom and on the football field. i felt much of an offer me the opportunity to do well in both. the infrastructure was and remains in place to assist student-athletes. i have a daughter who is currently a collegiate student athlete there and have witnessed even further improvements in the program such as mandatory study alba. i am here today as a former collegiate student athlete. i am not an attorney. so i will leave the legal argument to the experts to my

right. the impetus for today's panel is the and i'll be regional director's ruling says that college athletes are deemed employees. a means to an end, a vehicle to implement improvements to our collegiate athletic system. i believe they're is little debate about necessary logical improvements which i will describe. believe the debate today should be focused on seeking the most effective vehicle to cause the implementation of these improvements. the crux of the problem is that student athletes should be stevenson's first and foremost. i am concerned that calling student-athletes employees will make the system more of a business than it already is. in my mind we need to gravitate collegiate athletics toward the student center to model, not the other way around. i also worry about the

unintended consequences of being deemed an employee and what unionization could bring to college athletics. that said, says that as a former student athlete as support many of the goals for the national college players association and a college athletes players association that the ranking member describes. i favor mandated 4-year scholarships to help in -- health insurance benefits as the weapons. tsks for year scholarships. you should be able to maintain athletic scholarships released for, debatable five years. the goal of obtaining an undergraduate degree. the obligation should be maintained regardless of your productivity and the athletic field. the sad reality is if the

student athlete is not performing their athletic scholarship may not be become moot. this will insensate and athletes only focus on scholarship renewable at all costs rather than striking the right of the performance of a classroom and not feel the place. health and insurance benefits. after sustaining a sports related injury a student at least those in the united be reduced or eliminated. student-athletes that sustain permanent injuries' should be afforded health insurance benefits for life. i also hasten to add that all college athletic programs should enhance their efforts to minimize the risk. stipend, at the very least

transfer, the four year scholarships are mandated. i am okay with current transfer restrictions. i was a product of these transfer restrictions. however, if honoring for year scholarships is not required the onetime no penalty transfer options should be afforded all student-athletes, not just select sports. in conclusion these initiatives are in my mind obvious and necessary improvements. the first three of monetary implications of which i recognize there are more difficult to implement. however i believe they're is plenty of money in the system for necessary improvements that has been highlighted. the national collegiate athletic association is dedicated to safeguarding the lobbying a student athletes and equipping them with the skills to succeed on the playing field and in the classroom. if this mission statement is

true, why then haven't these goals already been implemented? this is simply because of the fact that the ncaa is a driven organization made up of colleges and universities also affiliated groups. ncaa may not have been able to get consensus from its diverse. i don't have a solution to this problem. i question the need to unionize. one final note, it is difficult to maintain that we truly have a student athlete system. this is not an acceptable outcome and i don't see how classifying the student-athletes as employees is going to improve the situation. finally, i was justin f. leavitt noted and.

i was not an employee of the ever see, nor did i want to be. i played six years of professional football. i was an employee and wanted to be. thank you. >> true experts. i will start with you. -from st. paul hood goes on to do all these things. i think you were part of a national championship team. i'm disappointed you could not help the vikings. you mentioned that your daughter is playing the cross -- across the better than. watching her experience and your experience of wonder if you were

discouraged from taking a class or pursuing a major. >> i was not. >> if you -- most of us on this panel, i can speak for everybody, but a lot of issues that could be and should be addressed. the university's ought to be addressing.

a member of the union and my oversimplifying a position? >> bernard, stanford, noted in each of our institutions provide that. for a student athlete not to graduate with the university with a degree in hand it is a total disservice. >> thank you. he mentioned something like 86 percent. could you talk about your graduation rate? >> did in fact graduate. north did advanced degrees,

graduate degrees. here is the key point the university creates a culture that encourages the student to do the best that he/she can. there are obviously important issues. we completely agree with that. we are part of a conversation that is nationwide. with respect to but when stupid if. we know they're are things that can, in fact, be improved in the real question is are we going to, in fact, use the national relations act as the tool for negotiating improvements? and it seems to be exactly the wrong way to go. for starters if i may make one additional point, the collective bargaining agreement that was recognized for the regional

director does not include the entire football team. if you are a walk on, one of the 35 members of the football team of the representative if the union is, in fact, elected, you will be outside the unit. quite apart from the non revenue sports which is a fundamental issue. we are treating all of our student-athletes the same. we want to encourage this culture then we want you to go to school. the one you tearing your degree and be one to help prepare you for your journey in life. thank you. >> you talked about how football and basketball were moneymakers and that money went to the other sports. just remind us of how that goes. >> the resources from our tv comedian, goes back into supporting 36. one of the larger offerings.

the 900 that we support. we think that is very important. >> thank you. >> thank you, mr. chairman. calling for a larger bargaining unit. >> it does raise the issue. >> i want to thank you very much for your testimony. he testified as straightforward manner about the issues that the students or raising. they are endemic to the football programs around the country. that really was as you pointed out the security of the scholarships at somebody else to the squad. the insurance benefits or

suffered disability as a result. lose your athletic ability and your scholarship. this type in the issue and the transfer issue, these study issues that the students quite necessarily to form a union iran because they were not getting satisfaction. the students fear the air, of. there are not being addressed. i find it interesting that other witnesses until the testimony to that notion which is their belief. here's stephen athletes, what about the athletic side of it. what about where we spend 50 hours a week. and apparently that can never quite get addressed.

that brings me to you. if you read mr. livingston's testimony can tell you why, and trudeau worked between conference's ncaa and conferences, maybe even the media would not be a shield against issues raised by this bargaining unit. they can travel all over. but that same network is used as a weapon against the athletes. that same network is used as a weapon when they want to talk about, is our stipend fair. because they don't have any voice in national. while the school is at the living in a four year -- but that is not every school. you know, we have to check with the conference. we are bound by the rules. rebar today what conference you

been. conferences are like commodities . what other revenues of will be generated midweek weekend playoffs. explain. a handful of students, how you will be aired and how you will get this during your career. fear of -- it distinguishes between scholarship athletes and other athletes and likely would get a scholarship if the school were actually allowed to exercise individual choice. instead is a cap that prevents

it. that -- directly to your point the way i like to think about the claim that schools are poor in their athletic departments is that it is similar to a wall street banker who brings in a million-dollar salary "but but but. once he is done paying for those things there is not a lot of money left. >> at think that is the point. the knight commission, there is not enough money to help the other sports. as they pointed out psst, creating an unsustainable group of athletic expenses. the $3 million. i recognize that is the exception. more and more people are joining at fraternity. you can't quite take care of

your athletic obligations campus wide. i think that we see here the ncaa has constructed a very interesting and overwhelming now work to be used against these kinds of questions being raised even as prominent as the night commission that examined this impact and the relationship of students which is why these students chose to become employees. classic employer employee relationship. >> the gentleman's time has expired. i ask unanimous consent. treating soon athletes as employees whenever range of negative and troubling consequences. >> both will be entered in the record.

>> i wanted thank all of our witnesses search of a. when i am grateful to someone who's been a lot of time and education and higher education, dealing with student-athletes as soon as it were not athletes. i appreciate the information. i understand balers priorities in education. in fact, all of you have talked about that. would you describe how balers athletic programs for both the academic programs to ensure student-athletes can prioritize their studies or loss on meeting the commitments to the team? >> one of the keys is the planning process that goes into developing a major planning, the schedule, and student athletes to have priority in terms registration, so we do not have a crowding out kind of question

at all. and so throughout the academic year they're is a careful monitoring of the students' progress, if she's being identified, then those issues are going to be addressed. that is our real seen a steady increase in recent years, even before my watch, but it is in a point of personal emphasis on my watch that we want this in at least have that entire reservoir of support and is why that gpa, cumulative gpa average is a very labor intensive and very student athletes specifically focused and city. >> as elsewhere, mandatory for first years. and then our abundance study facilities available. very conveniently located as part of our academic center.

>> let me come back to the regional directors opinion. he includes a list of restrictions placed on the athletes and says that they have to obtain permission from the coaches before applying for outside employment composting adams and angina. there are also prohibited from using alcohol and drugs and engaging in gambling. this may sound like a silly question the police tell me why you place these restrictions on steve netflix. >> it is to create a team closer and to ensure as best we can appropriate behavior. when the student athlete arrives he/she is presented with the student athletic and book and the earlier stages say here is the kind of behavior that is forbidden. it reflects poorly on the university from the poor in the team and frankly destructive of the culture.

there are a number prohibitions but there are grounded in human experience, things of the student athletes should not be doing. >> some of those things are things nest in should be doing. >> that is correct. when you go through without shelter nautiluses it is very, very comparable to that of any other student. a community of rules together and other rules that bind us all. >> i would like to ask you this question. and then if mr. muir as an opportunity to respond to my would appreciate it. we know that the -- from -- the decision made by the nlrb move gentleman has implications beyond. has implications for to one, the education and in a call workers'

compensation, fair labor standards could all be implicated. her tell us your thoughts on a possible implication of these laws. >> a very serious issue with respect to the title nine. if the football scholarship student athletes are all employees then it will create a very serious issue with respect to what that requires. there will be a host of other issues. injuries are important. we are sensitive to that. the question will be triggered, does osha have jurisdiction? i think it is going to raise a hornet's nest of issues. >> i believe if we go down that path students are students first.

already covering. i think if we go down the path eventually that we, our student athletes employees and they just become a true working relationship i do think that some of those things will become at risk. pressures become greater. >> digital ladies time has expired. >> thank you very much. i want to thank you for your testimony. you highlighted some of the issues that i want to talk about. you have described the effort at northwestern as a means to an end. i think it is also fair to describe it. i think that we talk a lot having this student-athletes interest at the center will we do. i used to run a college. the division to school. there is really no one talking

for the students. i think what is happening and what question is this is an effort to give somebody to listen. i want to address this. you both represent highly regarded very prestigious institutions that have succeeded of on the athletic field and in the classroom. you are both members of very large conferences. and i wanted just go over what the players at northwestern asking for. they're asking for efforts to minimize college athletes brain trauma rest of, asking to prevent players from being stuck paying sports related medical offenses, asking that graduation rates increase, asking that educational opportunities wasted and athletes in good standing be protected. asking that universities be prohibited from using a permanent injuries suffered during athletics as a reason to reduce or eliminate a scholarship.

as he gibber have with the punishment of college athletes that have not committed a crime. is there anyone on the list that is a reasonable? is there any piece of that and your institution will say, no, i am awfully sorry, we cannot do that. let me phrase it positively. would you each be willing to lead and never in your respective instances to see to it that your fellow member institutions say absolutely. >> i think that that series of questions, they are, in fact, important and legitimate, and we are continually working toward addressing the. take the concussion policy. the ncaa does have a concussion policy and requires members.

we continually monitor that. there are studies under way. the ncaa has personally and directly affected the study. this is involving science. >> here is my question. i don't mean to be rude, but i only have five minutes. should we not -- if unionization is as bad as some many of you think, should we not use this as a catalyst, not just to talk about conversations and, yes, we are looking at it. let's do it. are very powerful institutions in very powerful conferences the people look to. can you not just say we're going to lead an effort to make this happen? >> briefly, believe it is happening. can we move more quickly, of course. it is, in fact, as serious conversation.

under serious review, and it is not just a conversation. >> my question, in these conversations who is speaking for the student athlete? >> i would say their is a multiple of individual speaking for the stephen f. lee. we here, number of our constituencies both on and on campus saying we need is to nephele voice. certainly we are being attentive . they're constantly thinking about this, trying to take roles. athletic directors, again, this is a prominent discussion point. we do want to make sure that the student athlete experience is the best that it can be. >> let me just say one last thing. i hope that we can collectively to the point where we holstein athletes to the same standards.

a coach can break a contract with impunity. i don't understand why is that the coach could break a contract with impunity and a student athlete is penalized if he wants to move from one institution to another. >> i do think -- in bed and understand why we can't get your. peoples should go to college to get degrees. part of their educational experience was participating in this boys related program dislike someone would do drama, speech, debate. it is made me who i am today, a better father, husband, personal business person. so i would disagree with the characterization. i think it is in trouble. will we need to do is make sure

the student athletes have the ability to go to an institution and there it agreed and leave with the degree. if that is the case and would respectfully disagree that there should be some quit pro quo. a person should make a commitment to that coach to give them four years of service. if we don't do that i would submit the you are suggesting we should allow people to then full look around. it should be cool. of what it's to be equal for both parties. ..

they don't make money. a few of the big areas do come to the big schools do but at austin key it's a 9 million-dollar budget, not a 90 million-dollar budget. most schools at that level are startling and i realized unionization of their private university and not a state university but student athletes and i agree totally with you and mr. brush up a couple of things you can transfer now without loss of the time. if you go to one of the divisions or division two up just to clarify for everyone. maybe judge starr what concerns me is at least one i played sports or was fun.

it makes it sound like it's some kind of drudgery. goff is sometimes but for the most part sports are fun and that is why you play sports. as mr. eilers clearly said any added his experience as a as a student athlete and a made him a better and he mentioned it eloquently. it did for me. it taught me -- i learned a lot on the playing field i would have never learned in the classroom. do you think this ruling could potentially cause schools to drop football or sports? >> well we have to consider all the options in terms of the best interest of the university. i know that the president of delaware is said he was a student athlete himself, to that the university of delaware would not be able to continue its public university so it really is raising a host of serious questions. i think it could in fact at a minimum caused programmatic curtailments. it raises the issues we talked

about under title ix how do you change the title mind very important balance to achieve this is a matter of policy and as a matter of law. it is simply the wrong way to go to address these very important issues. the number of questions that are raised are so myriad, they are just remarkably wide-ranging. i don't think there's a real answer for most of these questions. the fair labor standards act and the antitrust laws themselves that were emphasized earlier so it's bringing us into a sea of complete uncertainty. >> i agree. excuse me, go ahead. >> if i might add the issue that mr. schwartz talked about in terms of the protection for entire leagues whether they help along underwood won collective bargaining agreement is correct for professional sports. that does not exist in college sports. the nlrb only would govern 17

out of approximately 120 schools that play football. so you end up with a potential arms race for those that can afford it and others as judge starr said may decide to make an decision to get rid of it. the team so want to when are going to pay their way up to win. >> i think it northwestern u. nice as they will play 12 homecoming games. in the event that the student athlete ian isis and the can't agree on the terms and conditions as a possible of student athletes will strike? >> it's a tool in collective bargaining and that itself raises not only just the idea but it seems to be unthinkable that the football team goes on strike. what about the nonscholarship athletes and again that's the incoherence of the collective bargaining agreement does that mean they also walk out on class if they are employees? what is their relationship to

the academic enterprise? >> mr. eilers we will give you the final comment. as you said when i was in college students were true college athletes. there are many people use athletics to do what you have done to -- you're obviously an incredible athlete because you played professional football but i think your comments were spot on. that's the way we should look at it as a student athlete. you point out that some students play in the band. some may practice for hours. some go to rotc and they work hard and drum and other things. and so i will give you the final say on this. >> the gentleman's time has expired. brilliant timing. mr. corchran. >> thank you mr. chairman. i think listening to the testimony most people i think would agree that what happened in northwestern was because the

ncaa has created a vacuum in terms of students being treated fairly and if you look at the mission statement of the college athletes players association one of the mission statement items is to provide better due process and sanctions. again i represent the university of connecticut and we have a pretty exciting swing. made to incredible i think rage's comments during the course of the lead-up to the tournament number one describing in a way that might be embarrassing to some that sometimes he went to bed hungry at night and that's because of the nickel and dime mickey mouse in ca rules in of defining what universities can provide to students. it was almost comical to see mr. mr. emmert rush to announce a new rule on april 15 that now has changed and of course not because of not because of what mr. ruth napier said that the only time thing that changes is the external pressure and

effectively that is what i think this event at northwestern has. talk about the plight of students but for the actions of the students but frankly they are there times when the sanctions process is far more pernicious than missing a midnight sack. we look at what mr. napier said about us is the fact of what happens when you ban us. due process and i use that term loosely that the ncaa engages in far too many times shoots the bystander in an effort to trying comport with some measure of student athletes. that school was banned because of a cohort of students who had poor academic performance and there is no one to dispute that. in 2007 not one player on that team was around at the university when those wars triggered a pr finding them with a four-year look at period.

they were banned from postseason play because of a role that makes absolutely no sense and by the way other schools are doing a one and done system which try and explain that to the average person why that's okay and a student like napier is punished. he's going to graduate in a couple weeks. he's getting punished for something that's somebody he never knew seven years earlier in terms of their performance. that is where again i am very skeptical frankly the protections for students get swept up in this bizarre byzantine system of trying to comport with some definition of student athletes and with all due respect the witnesses i don't think the colleges and universities because they have their own pressures in terms of not rocking the boat in the ncaa to step up and provide real honest to god advocacy for students who are getting swept up.

perry jones the third was disqualified at baylor because his mother took three small loans when he was a high school sophomore before he even went to baylor and yet he was punished later on in his college career because his mother was in desperate financial system. no one wants to vouch for that but nonetheless why would he get punished for that except for the ncaa desperate attempt to somehow comport with the definition of student athletes. mr. schwartz i guess when we talk about treating people with dignity because that to me is what is so offensive about the way the ncaa violated patient rights and the power that they can exert. again it tramples on people's ability to even just have basic due process rights when the sanction hearings and investigations and i was wondering if you could put your comments in that concept.

>> i think it's a great step that the ncaa has started saying the school wants to get -- previously the individual choice to individual choice defeated napoli was prohibited beyond a certain number of meals. that's a level of cartel control here and you're exactly right that the issue is not whether benevolent organization will deign to provide the people who bring value with some crumbs. if advocacy. i don't know how james brown is quoted in here but he saying i don't want nobody to give me nothing. open up the door and i will get it myself and that's effectively what the movement is about. it's about saying give us some avenue. it's an ncaa violation to come in and asked for money right now is an example. you get permanently banned. >> the gentleman's time has expired and i want to commend him the gentleman from connecticut for bragging without mentioning the basketball word.

[laughter] dr. desjarlais. >> thank you mr. chairman. certainly appreciate all of you here today bringing expertise. i wanted to go to mr. livingstone first and ask a few questions. mr. livingstone the nlrb regional does gresser's -- directors state universities and state government entities are excluded from an lra coverage and that's the decision that applies to a applies to abortion and universities in each conference and division however state law applies to public colleges. what are the state and federal laws involving collective garden garden -- collective bargaining and are the subjects different? >> there are a variety of differences. the state varies widely. the in lra covers organizing rules bargaining determinations

subjects of bargaining and the right to engage in economic action. all those differ under various state laws. for example somber habit public-sector bargaining entirely. others permit hoblick sector bargaining in limited terms. others don't have the right to engage in economic action. others for example would have interest arbitration say with a different subject being negotiated by different groups in different collective bargaining agreements. it ultimately would end up with individual bargaining and then on level playing field different terms in different contracts. then when those teams compete unlike in professional sports you have got something that i simply don't think is workable. >> i think that's an important point that scholarship athletes organized bargaining over terms of conditions and employment.

what terms and conditions of employment are mandatory subjects of darkening? >> i appreciate it comments we have heard from everyone today about the need for college athletics to improve, they have improved a lot in the student athlete but whether it's college athletes players investigation or any other union and the other union has of the right to go ahead and organize. under the national labor relations act they could bargain under a wide friday things. the statute wages hours and other terms and conditions of employment. that's so broad that it would cover compensation signing bonuses retention bonuses combat hours of work so in terms of schedules that protects potentially class attendance. while campus schools may be limited right now if they are eventually certified as an organization based on member desires maybe they come but greater and any other wouldn't be limited to the goals we have for today. >> in the event that

student-athletes unionize they will pay dues to the union. where do these payments come from? >> dues are an internal union banner so how they decided to it is up to them but under section 302 the labor management relations act is clear that employer in this case the university can't pay. the employer would have to bargain over check offer that comes from wages so unless we are talking about wages of some form the unions would have to answer that. >> we touched briefly earlier on taxation as universities and organizations are tax exempt. if the student becomes an an employer or they have been subject to taxation and if so does that affect pell grants and ability the ability to get student loans? where do we go with that? how do we go down that road? >> that's beyond my area of expertise but i do believe that others perhaps can answer that

question. >> does somebody else have a comment on that? >> section 61 of the internal revenue code has a very capacious definition of what his income sofa and individuals an is an employee then very strong arguments that are unsettled and obviously this is a new question but it's going to open up serious questions about the entire range of services including scholarship itself. there are issues presently with respect to how scholarship is treated but if they are employees that his compensation and presumptively taxable. >> if they are employees and you presume they would have to pay taxes on it i would presume that the goals of any scholarship negotiations and wage negotiations would be to increase that amount to take into account the tax. >> thank you. i you bet. >> the gentleman you expect. ms. fudge. >> thank you very much mr. chairman and thank you all

for being here today. i just want to make a couple of comments about things

students who are nonscholarship students. the first question i would really like to ask mr.'s wars -- schwarz you mentioned the level of profit that the ncaa is making off the student-athletes. do you know if any of that profit is dedicated in any way to providing health benefits to those students? see some of it is. i mean most on-field injuries the immediate cost of that injury is covered. it's not required but it is covered. long-term injuries that linger typically are less likely to be covered so it's not always the case. can i just add one quick thing real fast? >> very quickly. >> you mentioned since you're in college there has been a problem. the ncaa bow to them away in 1973. they have been claiming they have been talking about bringing them back since 1973 reed in

1986 something was tried that in past and in 2006 something was tried and they didn't pass it and now they are telling you it's coming real soon. there has been a long history of its coming real soon. >> bank you and the doesn't want these people to make a a living the little a living do little but there they can. i was around when the whole scandal at ohio came about selling their shirts. i would like to ask mr. starr and mr. muir what are your ask about coaches making your? >> it is substantial. it is a free market in so we want to keep our coaches. i can get those for you. >> would you please? >> i'm not sure of the numbers. >> isn't a secret? >> is something that we don't share at stanford. >> i know the answer for baylor. the coach made in 2011,

2.42.1 million and the women's baskets call -- basketball coach made 3 million. >> thank you very much. mr. starr you mentioned earlier that obviously the goal of attending a college or university is to obtain a degree i'm assuming we agree on that point. do you also realize that for division i football athletes that men's basketball players their graduation rates across-the-board hover around 50%? >> at baylor its higher. it's 62% for men's basketball team but i do not agree ms. fudge. we create especially in men's basketball but to a considerable degree in folk all as well this culture of student-athletes and it begins with the coaches. it begins with a head coach but the entire infrastructure has to

be oriented toward that. at the same time these are young men and women who are making their own choices. they decide what's important for them. all we can do is create a culture of encouragement and genuine support. >> thank you very much. i will yields back mr. chairman. thank you all. >> i think the gentlelady. dr. bucshon you are recognized. >> thank you very much. i will be brief. anyone can answer this question. two athletic scholarships give potential academic opportunities to students who are otherwise would not have them available to them because of surely based on their ability to play a sport? mr. muir. >> i would say the opportunity to attend an institution like stanford that both compete at the highest level as well as get a quality education we have lessened by% reignited this last

year. 40,000 applications so when our coaches present young people than opportunity to come and compete at stanford its wonderful experience in our kids as soon as they get in the door understand and cherish that opportunity. as i said with a high graduation rate they understand they are part of it.

>> mr. eilers did i say your name correct we? you talked about how the debate should be about what's the best way to address the goal and i really appreciate that. i know that some of my colle@wqw have mentioned the importance of addressing the goals of the college athletes have set out. i was reading an editorial that came out about the retail opinion who has said they have brought the problem on itself by not addressing players

legitimate grievances. obviously the regional director found some differences between what northwestern is doing and what you described in your experience and of course mr. muir and judge sub board. i wanted to ask a quick question. i know mr. eilers you said you went to the calyx school program but you are not representing northwestern. mr. livingstone do you happen to represent northwestern northwestern? i was just curious about that. we have her different experiences here in different facts about your colleges like mr. muir at stanford is doing. what we are talking about is the decision that is specific to northwestern. one of the things that the regional director found was that the scholarship players are identified and recruited and in the first instance because of their folk all prowess and not because of academic achievement in high school. is that similar?

mr. muir you are shaking your head no. is that different from your experience at stanford? >> in identifying young people to potentially come to stanford as i said earlier the first process we have to go through is making sure they can pass admissions. and to make sure they can enter school just like the general student. we are weeding out individuals if they don't have the academic record. it doesn't matter what their athletic accomplishments are. they are not able to meet the needs of ensuring a good education is going to happen. >> always try to figure out from reading part of the regional director's opinion, what happens if a class, a scholarship player wants to take because of its major or i should say his or her major because maybe this could be expanded to women's sports as well what happens if that class conflicts with practice?

>> one i attended practice and iced tea -- see our student athletes practicing many times i will see a football student specifically walking off the field because they are attending a lab or attending a class and that comes first. >> and they are not penalized for that? they are permitted to do that? c. they play on saturdays as well too. >> was that your experience too? sacrifices made. i took organic chemistry one summer between my sophomore and junior year because of that fact and trying to take the labs. i would only submit one additional thing which is what i think stanford is as incredible and football and on the accident front. there was a brief moment in time before he ran into unfortunate game against alabama in the national championship i was proud of notre dame having the highest graduation rate for football players as well as

briefly being ranked number one in the country so you can do both. >> is interesting because the regional director i believe don northwestern has 97% graduation rate for its players which seems to breed pretty high. i want to ask also what happens during the recruitment process because i mentioned what the finding was about northwestern that they recruited because of their football prowess but what happens during that recruitment process? how are the perspective athletes actually made aware that all of the opportunities that are available to them, do how do they decide what they are considering during that consideration process? who informs them about whether they will lose their scholarship if they don't stay on the teen? mr. muir and maybe judge starr you can chime in as well. >> first of all in terms of the recruitment process i have personally seen what that process looks like and it

includes a very thorough introduction to here's the academic support. they will meet people from the academic support staff. they will see if their diagnostic test issued done by the university in terms have been a learning disability. so if there is a very holistic introduction to the university as a whole including usually the parents or parent or loved one is there with the prospective student athlete. >> my time has expired and i yield back. >> mr. rokita. >> i think the gentleman for your testimony today. i think from what i heard judge starr as he would being a former judge really clarified the issue and that is are we going to use the nl ra as a vehicle for the improvements that you have all talked about today? i can imagine the authors of the

law whatever the intent of congress was to cover this situation. let's explore a little bit. mr. livingstone if the students were to strike or the athletic department or university were to lock the players out like you have that a steel mill let's say during the collective bargaining process with the students be able to attend class? >> that's an unanswered question. the only experience we really have is a professional sports the entire league that typically goes on strike or is locked out. >> and professional sports. >> in college because we don't have it. >> in college you have classes. >> the what they have to vacate or leave class or start playing playing -- paying for? >> certainly unanswered by law or regulations or anything else. mr. muir northwestern is in the big 10 conference is you know along with two schools in

indiana one being purdue in my district. let's say that northwestern students student athletes were used to unionize and proceed to either strike or be locked out. how would that affect the rest of the conference? using her knowledge. >> not being at northwestern i don't know if it's appropriate for me to jump on that. >> i just say using your experience and knowledge what you think would happen? >> would be difficult to continue to schedulesand continue to have competition. >> at stanford were in a similar situation what would be the affects? >> of that was the case stanford might notçw3 opt to compete ate level we are competing at. >> to doctor roe's toy that he made earlier. my district has st. joseph's college and i'm proud to be a board member of the division ii school. if i understand right you can share scholarships at that

level. between students and limited funds again looking into your crystal ball will would be the effective division ii ii students with regard to this? >> i'm not a legal expert but if this students at division ii wanted to unionize i think that would dramatically affect whether institutions can continue to offer theseñr offerings which is part of the fabric of higher education. that would be a shame if that also changed. >> these questions in your answers continue to bring clarity that i don't think this law was intended. >> may i add something? we are talking about scholarships as a finite limit under the nate -- scholarships versus full scholarships is all subject to bargaining under the nl ra. >> understood, thank you. judge starr we often talk about

on this committee ended businesses across the nation and in union halls about the cost of unionization and the cost of bargaining. the cost of deuces sector and whether not a union member should have to pay dues voluntarily or not have a choice in that. what do you think in your experience with the cost of unionization for the employee and employer's? can you estimate cost you estimate cost of students have leads at baylor for example? >> we have not punched through the numbers enough to even come up with a reasonable estimate. what we do now know is the whole idea of collective bargaining is in fact to the whole reservoir of duly agreed upon commitments by the employer so i think part of the question is what can we do outside the collective bargaining which is never been contemplated before two in fact

improve student welfare? that's the ultimate policy question seems to me that you have rightly focused on. the unionization process is raising a whole list of questions that we can answer today but we do know the cost of that will go up including issues with respect to how was that student going to be treated as an employee in terms of taxation and medicare and the like. >> my last question is for you judge starr. considering that the world is a jury watching today people might get the impression that big knowledge meant the improvements needs to be made is an acknowledgment that someone was caught for this just started as an action to this recent decision. can you give us evidence otherwise via your testimony? >> the gentleman's time has expired. >> the gentleman may respond. >> the gentleman syme has expired. mr. scott. >> thank you mr. chairman.

mr. schwartz in many cases the scholarship requires you to play in most cases. >> my understanding is until 2011 the ncaa amended to the scholarship could only be for one year with this in schools wanted to get one or not. if you stop playing during the course of a here's your continue for that year afterwards the scholarship would not be redeemed. >> some colleges you get a scholarship and you can continue with the scholarship whether you play or not isn't that right? >> if you choose not to play folk all the schools have the option per the agreement to terminate the aid. >> you indicated the number of hours that had to be committed. is the aptly required to comply with that schedule? >> you no in the hearing the facts that came out the word controverted and i heard it's a

40, 50, 60 hour a week job during the season and half that during the off-season. >> can a student ever be before the ruling could a student be an employee of the college like if they were to the library something like that? >> students are employed by universities of all the time. stanford daily the editor-in-chief makes $45,000. >> now in that case is the students -- is the student is status does that affect his student status as an employee? >> yes students are mutually exclusive. >> it could be part of the financial aid project. we will make sure you get a part-time job at the library and that could be an essential part. [inaudible] >> it's unlikely that if you quit your job at the library you will use the rest of your scholarship. that would be a little unheard-of would make? >> i think that's right.

there are lots of ways that students outside of sports can be compensated. stanford there was a class that required students to sell an app on facebook and to commercialize it was part of the requirements of the class. they got credit for doing that rather than being -- losing. >> is it possible that some student athletes are qualified as employees under this ruling and others are not qualified? >> my understanding is the rule applies only to at ds football athletes who receive scholarships. >> now what would the difference be for those -- i mean if you have a scholarship with a couple of hours of weekend swimming or wrestling or some other sport that is not the time commitment is it possible you would be a student athlete and not an employee? >> i object to the term student athlete because of the term

designed to -- college athletes if they go to college and they play sports. >> is possible that someone qualified as employees and some would not. >> i think that's fair. >> of a college wanted to avoid the union problem they could treat them like college students and not like employees. >> i'm not sure if i'm fully understanding. >> if you got a scholarship for the chess club or something or band and are not required to put in these kinds of hours you would be a college athlete. >> the reverse is true. the chess team has more rights than a college athlete because the chess team could say i wanted college scholarship that covers more than just the athletic scholarship. >> is possible under this ruling that some would qualify as employees and others would not?

>> i think that's correct. >> misters eilers you indicated the issues of the right to scholarship medical treatment the right to minimize brain kççx]çi]k?ñ?. a union could engage these issues. if it's not the union who would be in a position in a bargaining position to engage these issues and have the resources actually to do the research and make a presentation on behalf of the

to make sure we are delivering for the student. >> the gentleman's time has expired. mrs. brooks. >> thank you and thank you all for your testimony. i am the daughter of the high school football coach and a mother of a t-1 soccer graduate from saber university who suffered a serious concussion in high school in the last game of her high school career and after wonderful medical treatment and proper healing she went on to play for years of d1 soccer. now many parents and people who

are helping these athletes get scholarships which they all work so very hard in their lives to achieve those scholarships, parents advocate for these young people. the students advocate. the student athlete at eyes or a committee of the ncaa advocates. i would assume the president of the universities and the representatives each of the conferences that represent the ncaa on your board are advocates for these athletes and i would submit that there are many avenues to rectify the problems and there are continued problems for college athletes. but these athletes make these choices as to which schools to attend. one thing we haven't talked about enough is the role of the coaches and all of this process and the coaches who are employees of the university who reported the athletic directors reported the college president

to report to the board of trustees what mechanisms are there in your universities for the students to voice their concerns with the coaches and the coaches to voice their concerns to the administration? i will star with you judge starr. >> we have a baylor a student athletic council. these are student athletes themselves to come together who are elected by their fellow student athletes so they have direct access not just to their coaches but the athletic director. they can communicate with someone who we haven't talked about the faculty of luddeke representatives who brings an academic perspective including revealing specific cases so you're absolutely right a there are numerous avenues for voices to be heard. the ncaa the final thing i would say is the ncaa itself leaves in its governance historic it has not done well in terms of

ensuring the student asked the boys. so there are reforms underway that i think will be adopted that will in fact better ensure the student athletes are there on the councils of the ncaa. >> thank you. mr. muir? >> we have an opportunity to hear from student athletes and former coaches. the student athlete counsel at stanford i just met with at my home two weeks ago. it was a chance for me to check in on their concerns and how we are doing and it's important. also we survey our student athletes after preseason and provide feedback. they can do it anonymously and we have information on just how the experience is going and also the coaches have an open door policy. we look for that and select their coaches and the properly worship. we think we have one of the largest leadership develop programs on the campus of that's an opportunity for student athletes to engage. we have administrators, concerts and tutors on a united front to

make make sure they are traits is the best that it can possibly be to allow her athletes doing gauge. >> is it fair to say there are coaches imparted in their success and part is judged on the graduation of athletes? >> we are we are obviously looking at the graduation rates and what they are doing to make sure that they are solid citizens in a part the university fabric which is what we talked about earlier. >> i know there's always a tension when student athletes have to leave and may miss classes were tested in labs and so forth but as judge starr indicated there has to be a relationship with the faculty in the athletic department does there not in order to ensure those students take the test that they get the proper reinforcement and in addition to study halls. i know my daughter there were numerous study tables have required student athletes in order to achieve gpas and those where requirements that they must achieve a certain gpa to

get out of the study halls. are you familiar with that mr. eilers at notre notre dame? >> wasn't proactive like it is today if you started and you didn't perform well you got sent to study hall. today everybody starts in study hall. i am aware of institutions that aren't -- take academics seriously and their coaches to have provisions in their contract if they don't graduate their student athletes there are negative implications to their salary in their career. >> thank you. my time has expired's. >> i thank the witnesses today. mr. eilers i'm impressed with the way you agree with me on the concerns and the goals but you have a concern about unionization. i wanted to point out here these concerns have existed for decades. i wish you had an idea to

unionize because it seems totally frustrating. these are not new problems, are they? >> no not at all in this he said the issue of cost stipends has been around since 19731 by collective of the ncaa took them away. >> agri there are a lot of advocates out there but apparently has not been very effective. how is that been going for you advocating all this time the problem still exists? >> it's a one-sided discussion. >> there was also comment that the college athlete has choices. what would you say to that? >> i'm advocating for much more free market and an opportunity choice would be great. congressman rex mentioned that students have have choice for what they don't have a choice about is the full package they receive because the schools fix the price on what they offer. everyone offers the same thing. >> the ncaa $3.2 billion in

revenues. they can even address five basic issues except to say that it's coming soon? >> could i had one thing? the idea that this is a money using industry is incredible. if you look at a money industry you wouldn't see rising pay for employees. you wouldn't see firms flocking to enter the industry. 19 schools have entered fbs and none have left. unc bonuses that are 10 to one for sports results instead of academic results. the money is in the system. it's just that it's being denied to the primary generators. >> you made another point. you said money is being funneled to football coaches and some coaches are paid $7 million on that. when the coaches in louvre increase financial aid effectively puts a cap on that

and the price female athlete matching funds. >> title ix does not apply to coaching pay and that is why male coaches can make so much more than female coaches. it applies to financial aid applied to students so that aid is capped and the ncaa says they wish it were higher the lifting of a cap on male athletes would result in effectively the effectively matching funds to female athletes of the cap on men also results in a cap on women. >> mr. starr i want to go to some part of your testimony. the amount of financial aid must be in the same proportion as the intercollegiate sports participation rate of male and females. but when i look at the data from the department of education web site is shows baylor spends 56 cents on male scholarships for every dollar put 44 cents on women scholarships. the participation rate suggests

it's based on 42 cents per men and 50 cents for women. apartment education tells us there's a disparity of one percentage point you have serious explaining to do and i want to give you the opportunity to explain the disparity between this collection of dollars for the men versus women at baylor and the participation rates of men and women. >> that's a very dynamic process so that may change from year-to-year but if there is in fact a disparity and i accept what you have said it has to be addressed. we have to come forward with explanations as to why there may be a temporary disparity. we recently created two new women sports with scholarships in order to contrast that disparity. so we have for an example created a question in with a number of scholarships for women. we have created acrobatics and tumbling. >> are you saying you believe this is a temporary issue is that of the year-to-year thing and are you saying that wasn't

some knowledge of this or are you guessing? >> i don't know the specifics of that specific disparity so that is information to me. what i do know is academic athletic department does have to focus on is whether title ix compliance office. we have a compliance officer who refused these kinds of issues to determine. >> i'm just disturbed the ncaa answer to all these issues is wait for the next decade or two and we might get around to it and even on the title ix questions its we are working on it. i think we all should be concerned on that. >> i agree with you and i have the same frustration. that is why i'm here today. i would love to see this implemented in the one thing i didn't want to from the table when i was a student athlete at notre dame trying to prepare to play against michigan trying to prepare for class i couldn't conceive when this came up trying to think about threatenings to strike for getting to saturday morning at

the football game and not need in the locker room because demands were being met. i don't think the student athlete needs that incremental burden but we have got to get there. >> apparently the conversation stops there was some sincerity area. >> the gentleman's time has expired. mr. walberg. >> thank you the panel for being here. i didn't participate in a regular sport great i was an olympic sport but wrestling in high school and college university for the time that i did that was probably the best training for life that i ever had. i did it out of the joy of the sport. i did it by choice. i suffered four shoulder surgeries as result of that in the later years of my life but i look back and i would do it all over again. i appreciate also an aspect that there has to be care taken for athletes and i respect what you said about your concerns already

on that. mr. muir in your testimony you stayed stanford has taken steps to cover medical costs for injuries promote player safety and research prevention and affects of concussions. could you elaborate a little bit more on those steps and are these consistent with ncaa rules? >> they are consistent with the rules and we have our stanford medical team doing a kook concussion study. what they have told me as is this research is going to be lengthy and today we can say here is how we prevent that from happening. certainly they are observing that and they have medical malfeasance. each student athlete track where the blows come from and there will be an ongoing study for us in that regard. across-the-board in terms of the overall student welfare of our student-athletes that is something we hold close and dear

to us and it's important we try to enhance those things as we move forward with their student athletes competing at this level. >> do the student athletes understand this? are they made aware of the opportunities, considerations, programs? >> they are testing testing ands who are wearing the mouthpieces are the ones being educated on the risks involved and certainly with the research we are trying to do and there is obviously great discussion about what the future holds so that something they engage in and i think it's been worthwhile to have this leadership role. >> along that line stanford has taken steps to support scholarships and support students were medically disqualified from playing. what are the steps? >> for example we have three incoming athletes who are worded scholarships. they were not able to finish their senior year in competition. we still honor those scholarships and we look forward

to them can to bidding -- contributing once they are healthy and we have had other athletes who were injured and we still honored their scholarships at the end of the day. first and foremost we are here to make sure that they get their degree regardless of whether they continue to play or not. >> what about baylor? >> the same policy in place. we do in fact care for student athletes and their football players. if they are injured the scholarship continues and we also believe we have a moral obligation to them with respect to an injury sustained in football even post-graduation. >> notre dame as far as you know mr. eilers? >> as i arras i know notre dame is consistent with the other testimony. >> mr. muir and mr. eilers i would like you to comment as well. this year it appears the ncaa will revisit the stipend issue. we have talked a bit about that.

what is the major concern with the stipend from your perspective as

they are able to far exceed their expenses and makes it difficult. i do think we are making progress but it's going to take more time. >> mr. eilers. >> i was fortunate my parents ripple to give me out-of-pocket expense money when i was on scholarship at notre dame. my little brother was there two years younger than me chris george. he became a college all-american and played with my last year at with the chicago bears. he had no out-of-pocket money because mom could not afford it. he came down to people his teammates, his mentors to make sure he could go out to dinner with us do laundry as such are off campus. i just think that's wrong. >> i had my first wrestling win at