presidential rank award for her work on the 2010 quadrennial defense review. without objection the full prepared statement will be made part of the record you have five calendar days to submit any statements or questions to the witnesses horrors of mitt extra radius material for the of record. . . . .

thank you for inviting me here today to discuss nigeria's struggle against boko haram one of the most lethal terrorist groups in africa today and thank you mr. chairman and of the committee for a long time leadership on african issues. over month ago the world was outraged when boko haram kidnapped some 250 young women from a secondary school in chibok and united states with a joint effort to help nigeria safely recover the hostages. president obama pledged our full support and president dory accepted secretary kerry's assistance. today a robust multi-disciplinary team for the nicest government is working hand-in-hand with nigerian counterparts and teams from half a dozen other countries such as the united kingdom and france. our military and civilian experts and intelligence military planning strategic

communication civilian protection and victim victim support have been given unprecedented access and cooperation to assist nigeria's effort to safely recover the kidnapped schoolgirls. this effort one it would be daunting for any government will necessarily entail not just the diplomatic approach but also law enforcement and -- not just a military approach but also a law enforcement diplomatic effort. during our trip last week ever come commander general david represents -- rodriguez and i met with nigeria's top security officials to stress america's support for nigerian efforts and to reiterate the need for nigeria to redouble its efforts to defeat boko haram well respecting human rights in ensuring the protection of civilians. this past weekend under secretary of state for political affairs wendy sherman continued america's conversation with nigerian president jonathan heads of states from neighboring

countries and key partners in the summit in paris by french president hollande. after boko haram killed -- underscored why boko haram is a regional challenge and while the kidnapping and has cast a spotlight on this terrorist organization i want to emphasize for roughly a decade united states has been working to help the people of nigeria and the nigerian government address this terrorist threat. today i'd like to highlight some of the kinds of security systems we have more recently helping nigeria. fiscal years 2012/2013 the department of state plan $35.8 million in security assistance programs that benefit nigeria such approval. we are working with police and civilian security components to build nigerian law enforcement capacities to investigate terrorist cases effectively deal

with explosive devices and secure nigeria's orders. we do this because the most effective counterterrorism practices are those that respect human rights and are underpinned by the rule of law. we are also focusing on enabling various nigerian services including the police intelligence agencies and the ministry of defense refusing multiple information streams to develop a better understanding of boko haram. we engage in robust dialogue with their nigerian counterparts in these activities including through the u.s. nigeria bi-national regional security working group. there's also dod involvement which i will leave to my defenseman department colleague to describe. the department has considered other steps to support the fight against boko haram. as you know its leaders did do not have bank accounts in the organization is has not structured other terrorist organizations against him the united states is used particular legal designations designations. after careful to liberation in consultation with nigerian government united states decided in june of 2012 to designate

boko haram's top commanders a specially designated global terrorists which allowed us to implement an asset asset freeze troubled man and a prohibition in providing weapons or materials to these designated individuals as relevant. in june 2013 we decided to add abubakar shekau boko haram's officially star wars for justice program for the $7 million reward for information leading to his arrest. in november of 2013 after implementing earlier steps in going on our long record of security cooperation and shortly after nigeria and the united kingdom made their own designations we also designated boko haram as a terrorist organization. our approach reflected our evolving assessment of boko haram's threat potential of the utility of sanctions of different types and their close coordination with partners.

significantly a nigeria have been reluctant to seek international attention for the boko haram requesting the al qaeda regime. some make a difference we contained have concerns that corruption and human rights russians particularly those forces that have operated in the northeast continue to undermine governments attempt to defeat boko haram militarily. given these concerns we continue to press the government of nigeria to demonstrate protecting civilians where boko haram is not in this mean sending entity for human rights violations by security forces. let me be clear that there is no equivalence between the actions of the nigerian military and those of boko haram the terrorist group that's seeks to murder civilians in large numbers and terrorize the civilian population as a matter policy killing over 1200 people in 2014 thus far. we know the power of marriages against the government and its incumbent upon nigeria's

government to demonstrate the specific steps the will to ensure its forces protect human rights for all those people and ending impunity for those who use violence indiscriminately. consistent with our council two months ago the government of nigeria announced a multifaceted quote soft approach to countering boko haram and we are eager to see it implemented. we are also eager to see the nigerian government address the underlying concerns that impede their ability to address boko haram. in closing i will say that the state department like the american people helps very much to see the nigerian schoolgirls reunited with her family soon that we are also prepared for a long tough fight to defeat boko haram and help the nigerian people realize the full potential and economic potential potential -- political and economic potential of their great country. thank you. >> dr. dory. >> good morning chairman royce ranking member angle members of

the committee thank you for calling us together to adjust the deeply disturbing abductions of more than 270 schoolgirls from northern nigeria by the terrorist organization boko haram five weeks ago. the global community has been horrified by this barbarous act. within the context of the u.s. government response the department of defense is taking action to help the nigerian authorities efforts to recover the earl safely and address the growing threat of boko haram. 16 dod personnel from multiple locations have joined the multi-disciplinary team of experts led by state department at our embassy in abuja. their initial efforts have been to work with nigerian security personnel to identify gaps and shortfalls and provide requested expertise in information including the use of intelligence surveillance and reconnaissance support. we are also working closely with the u.k. france and other international partners in abuja to coordinate multilateral actions.

our intent is to support nigerian led efforts to safely recover the girls and help catalyze greater efforts to secure the population of nigeria from the menace of boko haram. to be clear immediate and long-term solutions to boko haram must be developed and implemented by the sovereign government of nigeria ipsis gained securities to be achieved. accident in its current form since 2009 the boko haram thread has run for the past several years extending its geographic reach and increasing the sophistication and lethality of attacks. along with other u.s. departments and agencies dod has been engaging for some time with the government of nigeria to help build its capacity to respond. beginning in january 2011 we have used the state department led u.s. nigeria bi-national commission is our principle forum to tackle the challenge and enhancing counterinsurgency efforts while developing a

civilian centered approach to security that is comprehensive engaging in law enforcement border security as well as the underlying contributors to instability such as governance education health and economic development. for its part dod is supporting the establishment of counter-ied and civil military operations capacity within the nigerian army as part of nigeria security doctrine. we have also supported the establishment of the national level intelligence fusion capability to promote better information-sharing among the various nigerian national security entities. most recently in late april of this year we began working with nigeria's newly-created counterterrorism focused ranger battalion. as has been demonstrated recently boko haram uses the lightly controlled orders between nigeria and its neighbors for cross-border operations. last week france hosted a very timely summit at which heads of

states from nigeria chad cameron deneen along with the u.s. and u.k. sought to improve regional collaboration. for our part dod and the department of state are working closely together on a proposal to enhance border security along nigeria's borders with chad may share and cameroon to counter the threat posed by boko haram. the concept is to build border security capacity and promote at our corp. among security forces in each country with the aim of reducing boko haram's operation space and safe havens. as committed as u.s. is to supporting nigeria and returning safely nigeria's fight is a very challenging case. in the face of an even more sophisticated threat nigeria security forces have been greatly challenged by boko haram's tactics. also troubling has been a

has-been the heavy-handed approaches by security forces during observations. our approach is to risk further alienating local populations. consistent with u.s. law and policy we review all security units nominated for assistance and do not provide assistance when there is credible information of human rights violations. this important consideration mind we have work to engage where we are able. no discussion of how to address boko haram would be complete without addressing some of the political dynamics in nigeria and the underlying security environment. despite its vast oil wealth nigeria continues to face enormous developmental challenges. these factors are combined with pervasive corruption and boko haram's real terror is a show population northern nigerians lack of reliable source of security. a long-term solution to boko haram cannot come solely from nigeria security forces but rather also requires nigeria's

political leaders to give serious and sustained attention to addressing the systematic problems of corruption for lack of that quarter will will governance and will governance in the country's uneven social and economic development. while continuing to draw attention to these broader factors will remain sharply focused on the heartwrenching event that triggered this broader awareness and boko haram's deprivations. dod is committed to supporting nigeria's efforts to locate and recover these girls. this will not be an easy task as hostage recovery is a high-risk undertaking in the best of circumstances. if this terrible episode is to resolve in the girl's safe return the government of nigeria must continue to match its public statements with a serious and focused response that draws on all elements of its government the influence of key social and religious figures in the resources international partners are making available to assist. thank you. >> thank you for that testimony. as you have testified we do not

provide assistance when human violation, human rights violations occur however there is a provision whereby an extraordinary circumstance we could and here is the argument that i would make about boko haram and why this is an extraordinary circumstance. you have a situation here where we are folk asked on the kidnapping of 300 girls some weeks ago but in the meantime more are being kidnapped as we talk about it. an additional group of schoolgirls were kidnapped. as we talk about additional attacks have occurred. 118 killed this morning and 300 killed a few weeks ago. as we talk about it, 500 schools have been destroyed and boko

haram there've modus operandi is to destroy the schools and then recruit young uneducated men into their ranks and teach them jihad. so it's the jihad mushrooms out across north africa into cameroon and into chad and into neighboring states we say well human rights violations have occurred in nigeria so we are limited to what we can do. the difficulty is that boko haram is in a process of expanding their terror and the frequency of these attacks, the attacks on girls. that's been an evolution. i mean as they have intimidated and frightened the nigerian military there are now at a point when a lot of military units have run away so they can go in and take girls and they

can turn them into concubines or sell them or you know enslave them because that is what they are actually doing. they are enslaving. and i would say that is an extraordinary circumstance that might necessitate the u.s.. we have u.s. forces well-positioned to advise and assist nigerian forces in the search for these girls and in this role u.s. forces are trained to deal with hostage situations. unfortunately the nigerian forces are not. they are trained to deal and track in jungle environments. they can advise-and-assist right up to the point of an attack. they don't have to be involved in an attack but they can use those unique assets the u.s. has

in terms of our spy satellite capabilities etc. in order to track and rescue these girls. this would be very similar to the mission that we have approved with respect to the lords resistance army and for a number of years if you think about it how many years did it take us to galvanize support against joseph kony? i think it was 15 years of joseph coney marauding young boys and making soldiers and young girls and making them concubines. i think 15,000 was roughly the number of people he slaughtered before we finally put them on defense by authorizing u.s. forces to help track and so now he is the one that is being tracked instead of the one tracking others. it used to be he would maraud and take his band into congo or northern uganda or southern sudan central african republic

and just create mayhem but it now at least he's on the run. somebody said this morning we haven't caught him yet. no, we haven't caught them yet but he is on the run and there's little doubt that they are going to run him down. it's a completely different situation than it was a couple of years ago when he was on the offensive. now we have got the same situation here and frankly we should do the same thing. for the sake of humanity we should do the same thing. we should not allow this kind of cancer to spread the way it has. we have heard from deborah this morning, deborah about the uncompromising position where they tell her father you know, that he has to quit. he was a pastor. they burned the church. they killed him and they killed her young brother and now they have kidnapped her schoolmates.

i think that the time is at hand for the united states to help build the morale. think about what this would mean to the nigerian forces if we were willing to give them this assistance. you could ensure that the strategy from a rescue operation launched by them is very well-planned. you could boost the morale and effectiveness of the nigerian forces and you could ensure that our intelligence reconnaissance surveillance assets are put to the best use. so i would just ask for your response if i could to the observation. is there any reason why we can't offer that waiver and treat this the same way we treat going after joseph kony? >> i think the waiver issue i would defer to my state department colleague in terms of the specific provisions of leahy but what i can quickly do disagree in terms of some of the

diagnostics as you look at the situation with the lord's resistance army and why we are on a successful path to collectively at this point and how that pertains to the boko haram situation. you have identified congressman the elements of success. you have neighbors who are working together under regional task force construct to address the lra challenge. you have a ugandan government dedicated to addressing the governancgovernanc e and economic concerns of northern uganda which helps give rise to the phenomenon of the lord's resistance army in the first place with external support uganda and the other forces have been able to develop intelligence and information picture that has been very important and then launched a very successful information campaign that reaches for

populations in the affected areas that are then able to further assist in the tracking operations. i think many of those elements are very relevant to how we could productively work with nigeria and its neighbors going forward these are the boko haram. >> story i would add one other thing for your consideration may be doctors who will would like to comment on this as well that the one difference is boko haram we have a group that is they threat to u.s. interests as well according to the state department testimony on the senate side or perhaps it was the defense department but there is no question that the jihadist group like this that directs its efforts and its bombing against those who believed in empowering women or teaching women is also a threat to the united states or our interests.

so it would seem to me that if we are going to authorize this with respect to going after joseph kony we certainly should do it here. dr. brooks said then. >> thank you for your observations and i share your sense of urgency about the matter. i think with respect to the specific question concerning sanctions is my understanding that there is limited waiver authority in the case of national security emergencies and the decision rests at the highest government. >> is that under consideration as an exemption? >> i can't speak to what the senior members of the government are discussing with regard to leahy. i think the focus right now is very much on the safe rescue of the girls. >> yes but the leahy amendment is what prohibits our active operation in the steps that i have just enumerated here

tracking on the ground in being able to track that on the ground. that's the whole point. we have the testimony by the defense department last week in the senate that this vetting is a persistent and very troubling limitation on our ability to provide assistance talking about the leahy provision here particularly training assistance that the nigerians so badly need unquote. this is the problem. >> i'd like to address it. the issue is disaggregate the immediate crisis and what options are available to deal with supporting the nigerians in their effort to rescue the girls versus longer-term systemic and force white engagement and i think it's very important to disaggregate those and look at the facts as they pertain to each case. in the first case i spoke yesterday to the deployment team in abuja and they are very pleased with the rowing level of cooperation that exists both

within the intel fusion center and their broader discussions with their nigerian counterparts. they are hopeful that u.s. assistance will be increasingly useful to the nigerians in their efforts and they nonetheless rely on choices made are the government of nigeria in terms of what they would like to avail themselves of and how to proceed more broadly the security assistance issue and again i would prefer and i think amanda dory can speak about the humanitarian assistance right now but pursuant to the leahy law we have been able to create essentially two new battalions with only are working one especially as counterterrorism force and another ranger battalion to create their specialized military capabilities with regard to the kind of military challenges that boko haram presents.

>> he would be my suggestion. thank you. ask for a temporary waiver. if you don't want a permanent waiver asked for a temporary waiver and designate as this is an extraordinary circumstance and get an answer to the point that your colleague made with the department of defense that it is a persistent and very troubling limitation on our ability to provide assistance particularly training assistance that the nigerians so that they need. that's a statement from the department of defense. it needs to be addressed but i need to go to mr. engel. >> thank you very much mr. chairman. i was in favor of declaring that boko haram is a terrorist organization but i want to address the undercurrent was some of my friends on the other side of the aisle but somehow the lack of a terrorist organization earlier contributed

somehow to this kidnapping. i think that's absurd. when the state department didn't designate boko haram as an ftl it wasn't because anyone was being careless or because they weren't paying attention. it was a policy decision based on facts of the ground. it's not clear what the designation does with asset freezes and visa bans but that has actually made a difference. designating boko haram earlier would have helped the organization's fund-raising and recruiting efforts. organizations like boko haram aren't afraid of -- they wear it as a badge of honor. i'm also told that the nigerian government didn't want the designation and that's the reason the state department didn't issue it and in may of 2012, 25 leading experts wrote

the state department saying the nation for boko haram was a bad idea and the state department did designate the top three leaders of boko haram as specially designated nationals meaning we could go after them and their network and in fact secretary clinton visited nigeria and 2012 to consult with the nigerian government and how we could work together. while i have been in favor of declaring a terrorist organization i don't think anyone can seriously think that if we had done it earlier would have somehow prevented this kidnapping. i would like either dr. sewall or ms. dory to comment on what i just said. >> congressman ranking member engel it's fair to say that we worked closely with host nation governments regardless of the designation issue that boko haram had certainly been on the radar screen in terms of the

type of security cooperation that's been effective with nigeria since it emerged in the nigerian context years ago. so the point about the formal designation rings additional tools to bear principally in the financial domain. you mentioned the visa bans as well so i can be helpful from that perspective but it does escalate in a sense and that can be why when engaging with host nations they need to be reluctant to have such an international designation because it draws more attention to the problem potentially in productive ways. at what point did the designation occur and the practical engagement that's been underway with the nigerians are separate issues. >> i think the key point is the

extent to which sanctions achieve their object is in one of the reasons why the administration decided in june of 2012 to designate the three top commanders of boko haram as specially designated terrorists was because most of the tools that would be available against boko haram as an organization were available to use against those three nice leaders. the rewards for justice program was an additional effort to find ways to put pressure on the organization and what fundamentally change in the context of the fto designation that followed both of those actions was the ability to take action against the group as opposed to its three top leaders so i think it's in that context it's very important to look at the evolution of u.s. actions in the primary significance i think was in the june 2012 designation of the three boko haram top leaders as specially designated terrorists.

>> thank you. let me ask you both this. you have been following these kidnappings. has the nigerian government and i said some of them in my opener marks in ms. dory you have as well has been nigerian government become more receptive to change and what concrete things that they done to shift their relationship with us? >> i believe the quick answer is yes the intensity of international public opinion and support is productively contributing to our dialogue with the government of nigeria. i think their willingness to accept the multi-disciplinary team and their robust engagement since its arrival are the most concrete indicators in the near term. >> at my recent visit with

africom commander david rodriquez we stress both of the points that you referenced both the need to take rapid action to rescue the girls and the need to fundamentally rethink their approach to counterinsurgency. we talked about the ways in which it is critical to think of a holistic approach the ways in which a careful approach to violence is absolutely vital for attaining the cooperation and therefore the intelligence from the local population. one of the main hindrances in the fight against boko haram thus far and we also spoke frankly about our concerns about the inability of the seemingly large defense budget to translate into the receipt of olive and workable trucks at the level of the seventh division in the northeast. >> does the state department have an estimate of how many people the nigerian security

forces have killed over the last four years in northern nigeria? >> we do not have an estimate but i will tell you given my own background as someone who urged the united states government to count civilian casualties this was an issue i raise with all for the military which weave and my strong advice would they would be unable to evaluate and reform their efforts to protect civilians and more directly avoid killing civilians by mistake unless they carefully tracked those casualties. so is it is my hope that going forward we will be will see progress in that regard. >> the chairman and i agree on what we in the united states must do in order to help bring these girls back in terms of working with other countries and forces. could you outline for us what are some of the operational

challenges to finding and rescuing these girls? >> thank you. the operational challenges are significant. you have seen some of the comparisons in terms of the vastness of the terrain in which the girls may be located. we are working with the nigerian counterparts in the other international partners to develop a better understanding of where they may be but our sense at this point is they have been dispersed into multiple smaller groups. they may or may not all be in nigeria so the sheer number of individuals involved, the complexity of the terrain and the jungle for a great part of it and the movement that could be associated over the weeks that have elapsed creating a

greater area of operations make this a very difficult environment in which to contemplate what a recovery might look like. just to give an example if you think back to the hostage in algeria two years ago where you had 800 hostages who were in a single location and the algerian government and military took action as the aqim and they'll mock terror began to separating discourse the hostages. they engaged in an assault that left 40 of the hostages dead hand that was in a desert environment and the hostages were concentrated together. so it would be hard to overestimate the complexity first of locating the hostages and then began considering how

that might he resolved successfully. if we had an fbi witness here today he or she i imagine would indicate that the vast majority of hostage recovery situations were resolved through dialogue and negotiations and not for rescues. >> thank you. anything to add dr. sewall? >> i think any military experts and hostage recovery would also tell you that the dialogue is often very helpful even in the event that dialogue fails and so i think we have to be respectful of the ways in which the nigerians choose to achieve the safe return of the girls. >> thank you and think you mr. chairman. >> we go now to mr. chris smith from new jersey. >> thank you mr. chairman and thank you for your testimony. a couple of questions. i am cognizant this is an open hearing that do you have reason for optimism that progress is being made in ascertaining the

whereabouts of these abductive young women and any indication at all about their welfare and well-being, their health? >> i would say that the team when i spoke to them yesterday was very pleased by the level of cooperation, was very pleased by the multiple sources of information flowing into the intel fusion center, was encouraged by the professionalism and the commitment of the nigerians in the intel fusion center and was hopeful that the degree of intelligence information would continue to increase over time. given time i am hopeful that we will make progress and i think that's the extent to which i can respond. >> thank you so much for that. let me ask you with regards to the designation of the fto status which i think is a very

port and hearing. assistant secretary for african affairs testified and i asked him repeatedly at the time wise sub one is not designated a foreign terrorist organizations and he said while acknowledging it was an important question that he believes the larger element, he goes we believe the larger element of boko haram is not interested in doing anything but attempting to discredit and disgrace the nigerian government. he went on to say, this is ambassador carson speaking i would for my people the phenomena of boko haram is one of discrediting the central government in power for its failure to deliver services to the people. in retrospect do you believe that was an assessment that had fully to be? i mean services to the people and that's why they are doing this? i would also note parent that it be that system secretary

principle deputy assistant secretary robert jackson acknowledged last week that in retrospect we might've done the designation area and he added that think would be quicker to make designations based on our own assessments earlier. i actually went as you may know in september of last year to joe's and abuja and repeatedly raised the question of foreign terrorist organizations of designation and frankly on the nigerian side and with their own people in the embassy there was a very strong sense that this could have a very valuable effect particularly in tracking where all the weapons were coming from. maybe they don't have accounts. maybe they do, i don't know but if we really look and probe and try to discern who are providing the ak-47s in the ieds and the like that are killing so many people we may be able to put a tourniquet or begin

putting a tourniquet on this bloodshed. your sense on that statement that this statement made by again johnny carson the phenomenon of boko haram is is the power to deliver services to the people. >> i think it's hard to look at boko haram as an insurgency that rests predominantly on the failings of the states but there is no question that the failings of the state create a context in which disaffected voices are -- to recruitment and when you look at the specifics of boko haram's tactics and firms terms of forcible recruitment that is the way to explain how it continues to survive additionally. from the perspective of our efforts to counter boko haram from the outside from legal

mechanisms that exist outside of the nigerian context in which the nigerian decisions are central the important step to me was the june 2012 designation of the three leaders. >> let ask you because i'm almost out of time. should we have done the ftl earlier? >> i? >> i wasn't here so i don't know. >> your and a very high position. i look back and forth and we all do all the time. should have been done? >> i thank you for your leadership on this important issue. the important thing is that the three leaders were designated in 2012. >> i'm almost out of time. have they been attacks by boko haram against americans? joss has the highest number of americans in nigeria following yesterday's bombings of all americans been accounted for and for the record when the u.n. compound was launched for any

americans -- >> i am not aware that they were americans involved in the u.n. compound bombing and i think in terms of jobs you would have to check with the embassy to see if there is a full accounting of americans. >> you can you get -- get back to me. >> ms. dory perhaps you can give me a one-word answer. boko haram has a lot of weapons. are they mostly captured from the nigerian military, purchased or we don't know? >> i could give slightly more than one word. it's a mixture in our understanding. they have resources as a result of kidnapping for ransom operations that they are able to purchase to include --. >> are the weapons that we have seen them use or capture for hashes or stores the same weapons found in nigerian

military arsenals? >> some of them are captured from nigerian security sources so it's a mix. >> okayed.there sewall. a high ranking member of boko haram. according to open source is he maybe it healing between that organization and certain a few affiliates like al-shabaab they have been behind the 2011 u.n. bombing. should we be designating this individual is a specially designated global terrorist? >> i don't have the answer off the top and i will have to look at that and get back to you because i can answer it right now. i apologize. >> there are lots of reports in the press that the nigerian military new hours in advance of this attack. do either of you have any information that would either confirm or discredit beyond what

we are have read in the newspaper's? >> i and familiar with the press reports but don't have additional information either way. >> okay. got her sewall i'm trying to understand the attitude of the nigerian government. his acting as if it's almost disturbed that the whole world is focused on boko haram. can you explain why the nigerian government wasn't pressing us to designate this organization's boko haram is a terrorist organization and was it doing more to bring in international support in its efforts against this terrorist organization? >> well i'm not sure i can really speak for the nigerian government but i can share with you congressman my impressions based on the conversations that we had in our recent visit. so i think the nigerian

government leaves that it has heard that message about the need to change the way it does its business. it believes it has taken a more offensive approach in recent months and it has expressed the belief that the more recent rounds of longing's have been the efforts by a desperate group to gain attention. i think the nigerian feel about international attention was misguided in some ways along the same lines that i have heard commentary and the u.s. public discourse which is to say that the world ignored nigeria and is only now focusing on nigeria with the kidnapping of the schoolgirls. so i find myself reiterating the

decade-long security cooperation assistance that we have had and the messages that we have been sending them about corruption about accountability. >> again i will point out we would have designated boko haram earlier had we not i think correctly taken into consideration the nigerian government. i am confounded as to why the nigerian government wasn't pushing this forward and why they were pulling this back. we have designated certain individuals. we have designated the entire organization. the view i have of boko haram is up all of the islamic extremist organizations they are the ones that are the most in the jungle least like we too have a good counts etc.. have we successfully frozen ended the individual assets and

especially global terrorists, frozen any of the assets are been successful in going after boko haram? a lot of discussion here is why did we do it sooner but we did do it over six months ago and if they are really and in the bush that's would have very little effect on them to great effect on a psychologically because we like to feel like we have done something that we indict chinese military officers because of their hacking but in order to make us feel better but if we been able to accomplish with these designations? >> i would need to refer you to my colleagues and other agencies to speak to the specifics of the enforcement actions pursuant to the sanctions designation and perhaps. >> but you are not aware of anything the designations of certain individuals that designate laval terrorists or boko haram as a terrorist organization?

to your knowledge there isn't a particular bank account, a particular intercepted prevented fund-raising effort, no tangible effect six months or more than six months of such designations? >> and fortunately i will need to refer you to the colleagues that do the enforcement. i'm not in a position to answer the question. i apologize. >> i yield back. >> congressman sherman in answer to your first question and further answer to that there was testimony from the fbi and they will just give you their quick response. the of the eye director james comey testified that boko haram has communications training and weapons links with al qaeda and the maghreb as well as al-shabaab in somalia and al qaeda in the arabian peninsula based in yemen and then he also testified that these links in his words may strengthen boko haram's capacity

to conduct terrorist attacks against u.s. and western targets of this nature. in terms of the weapons movements that is the fbi's testimony? >> we did expertise both from their and. >> we go to mr. mccaul from texas. >> thank you mr. chairman. i want to follow up and last night i watched the video again of boko haram the leader with these 270 girls and it is horrific and it's hard to stand back idly and watch that happen knowing that we could do more to help them. the chairman raised the issue of the waiver process and i guess my question to dr. sewall is it that waiver was granted what additional assistance could be given to the situation? >> i think one of the

distinctions that i've been trying to articulate is that the waiver really is geared towards the training and material support for forces and some 50% of the nigerian military at this point in time are not eligible for that form of cooperation with the united states because of the leahy law. so we have been able to engage in security cooperation with the leahy vetted units which is the remaining 50%. in terms of the operational pieces i guess we should turn to my colleague ms. dory to speak about what additionally might happen in a waiver but at this point we are doing everything the nigerians want us to be doing and we are there and available to do more completely consistent with the leahy law with our deployment team and our military planners.

speaking ms. dory if that waiver is granted what additional assistance militarily could be provided? >> sir is predominantly a function of what assistance is requested by the government of nigeria. we have a complete menu of training activities equipping activities advising assisting the usual inventory that the department can pursue that really rests with the host nation to identify what areas it wishes to operate. >> you mentioned earlier a military operation would be risky and risky to the hostages and i understand that but has there have been any effort to have an mdi hostage rescue team assist with this? >> there are fbi personnel who are part of the a multi-disciplinary team and i believe the services of fbi's

recovery experts from the table. >> i would hope so. it i would hope the answer is yes to that question. i think they could be very valuable in the situation. i chair the homeland security committee. in 2011 we released a report on boko haram emerging threat to the home and asked that they be designated as an ftl because it would support u.s. intelligence in their effort to curb financing heightened public foreigners and signal to other governments that the threat is serious. in september 2013 we issued a follow-up report, boko haram a growing threat to the home homeland again asking the designations take place. members of congress additionally made that request and finally the head of the justice department's national security division has sent a letter to the state department requesting that boko haram be put on this list. now i know dr. sewall that

eventually they were put on the list but it took years to get the haqqani network to be put on the list. took years to get ansar al-sharia behind the benghazi attack put on this list. we still can't get the quds force to be put on this list. why is it so difficult for the state department to get put what is so obvious on the foreign terrorist organization list? >> i can't speak to the decisions that were made before i came to the department's sir i'm sorry and i know there are many different considerations that go into other decisions. in the context of the nigeria case there was discussion with a government. there was a discussion about the nature of the threat and a discussion about the efficacy of the impact of the sanctions. i can only speak to that case and i unfortunately cannot speak to the prior cases. >> is not just members of congress in just the justice department.

carter ham talk about this threat. director clapper from dni mentioned this threat and general david rodriguez commander of africom. this is coming from multiple points you know. not just members of congress and my committee but multiple points in the military justice department. i don't really understand why when you look at that video it's so obvious that they are terrorists and by they weren't put on the ftl and it may not have stopped this event from happening but at least if we could put pressure on their financial ties and their funding mechanisms. with that mr. chairman i yield back. >> go to mr. gregory meeks of new york. >> thank you mr. chairman and first mr. chairman i want to thank you for the way you have been conducting this hearing and the investigations and education

that you have done to talk about the way to figure out how to resolve this. you have done this in the manner and i want the record to be clear that i concur with you and your opinion and how we should be able to assist the nigerian government. i think the research that you and your staff have done is excellent and i think they -- i want the record to reflect that this is clearly something we all agree upon in those regards. i want to say to ms. who is sitting in the audience who i had to listen to her tell the horrible story with regards to rare family that happen before her eyes and 2011. no child, no child should have to see their parents killed and

siblings before their eyes, none it really angers me inside when i hear that and when i hear this group boko haram who has now kidnapped these 200 girls but has killed boys, destroyed churches, taken away hope, there is no redeeming factor for individuals like that. they are in the same category as al qaeda and al-shabaab. i don't see any and i want to make sure we do everything we can trefrey those girls i don't care whether to negotiate whatever it is that i don't want that to be the end of it. generally i'm almost to let a guy and i haven't heard any country dissent on the of this

group. i don't see why once we get these girls free i'm going to tell you for me i want drones. i want something because they don't belong on this earth. threatening people and having people living in fear, this is something that i see that not just this nation but other nations are coming together to say we are going to stop this. and we need to do it. we need to do it in nigeria. we need to do it in syria and pakistan and somalia wherever al-shabaab, wherever these individuals are and then we have got to do more than that. because the attacks on these 200 schoolgirls in northern nigeria we talked about it six global

outcry to keep girls safe and protect their education but unfortunately we are all too aware of the same extremist groups that are doing the same thing. i'm wondering whether or not there is a plan to ensure that children, all children, especially those in conflicted areas, are protected and have access to quality education? i know you can answer that question but i'm just upset right now. i think i could think rationally as the chairman does and has done. that's why i think it's a good thing he is doing it as you need rational thinkers at the time like this and not having a motion taking over as is doing with me. but i am, listening to ms. peter story means i can do at the chairman is done so i think god that he is doing what he is doing right now.

but it seems to me that i have godlike ms. peters a 15, 14-year-old daughter who is asking me about this scenario and what are we doing and what should we be doing? when i think like that i can think rationally. tell me ms. sewall. >> congressman makes i want to tell you that i can be every bit as irrational as you are in this issue. i don't think there's a single american that doesn't detest boko haram from the bottom of their hearts. i have four daughters. i have 317-year-old daughters and 112-year-old daughter -- daughter and when i left them to go to nigeria you can imagine how heavily they would have my heart and when i met with the activists that had been protesting the government's response to the crisis when i called the principal of the school to express america's

support for her and for bringing the girls back safely i was able to give voice to the emotion that i think we all feel in the context of this immediate crisis at the same time it's abundantly clear that if we are to move to address boko haram as an enduring threat beyond the question of these 200 plus schoolgirls that the nigerian government itself has to make changes. has to address corruption. it has to address the excessive use of violence. there are ways we can support them in those efforts and there are ways we can do specific rings for them but those are fleeting things. those will not solve the boko haram program. the boko haram problem in nigeria needs be addressed by nature ends. the boko haram robin is a regional threat and needs to be addressed by regional actors. the value of this crisis is it

has brought together in a conversation all the actors that are not just with the schoolgirls but with the enduring threat of boko haram and this moment offers the hope that we will coordinate the assistance and focus the efforts to address the underlying problems here which are the scourge of boko haram. .. ent and to take a set of actions that it has thus far not committed to. and so this -- we cannot lose sight of the fact that this is not our problem to solve and we must seize the moment to bring together all of the voices of concern about the school girls and about boko haram to press and support the nigerian government in undertaking its own critical changes and reforms. >> thank you, mr. meeks. we go now to mr. jeff duncan of south carolina. >> thank you, mr. chairman.

i want to thank mr. meeks for his passion on this issue. it's touching. and i share your passion. i just hope that that same passion will continue to carry forward as we talk about terrorists wherever they are, whoever they are, attacking not just interests in africa, but love >> not just interest in africa but folks that love liberty anywhere in the world. i appreciate that in i lookwo forward to working with you going y forward. listening to the story ofand ing ms. peters and thinking about christians in general, so the aa question that i have for you today, do you think that christians are specifically spey targeted in au courant attacks reign. >> i wish there was such boko hm discrimination as boko haramityt attacks.

it is an equal opportunityall tn threat.that. >> i would like to delve in to this with al qaeda as well as a the focus by some of the member on pursuing a more transnational agenda and concerns of the groups that. u.s. officials have suggested sring he islamic group were likely sharing funds and explosive materials.th of y and i would ask you to be brief as you provide clarity to the extent of the operation and support that aqim has provided to this organization. organ >> congressman? -- two financial materials. >> >> in this setting there areset, amits to go into detail, but wn absolutely confirm the

con speakingre taou are of in terms of the cooperation between aqim in particular wher the ties them to be the strongest for facilitation and financing offinancing, the weapn bok poke boko haram affiliates as was discussed earlier. the intensity of that is left l, there that there is in all member briefing as we get into some of those details. >> a question just came to mind. what is the state department and fbi and treasury department doing? ye have folks in and around mone nigeria and africa in general to trace this money and make sure the sources and doing

whether there are any links? could you tell me what we are doing in that regard anything?he i don't have the details onld that. happy but i would be happy to go backk to the other agencies andpartmeh specific moments of the state department that might bet involved in this and to a bemoia full answer. >> i appreciate that. the other thing is if you could answer the question about thethe extent of the cooperation that youon know of between boko haram and al qaeda affiliates. >> material support from anything. >> i understand we have intermittent supported as the deputy secretary described. >> are we connecting the dots within the state department? wod >> sir, the state department is always working hard to connect hoigeans w the dots. prosecu >> have any of the nigerians been prosecuted in recent yearst for y providing this such as aqy

do they have any links to the boko haram group way that yougr? know any connections. briefed >> i am not fully briefed to answeron that question with 100e uncertainty so i would have to take it for the record. time sirach last question. run individualsied wi to make sure that they don't t have to trade with the united states of america? o and we know who these readers are? members of this and making sure >> i would be surprised if we we had an designated the terrorists themselves. fun and that would be just functions like you that you're not as y well. >> thank you so much. >> thank you. we go to david cicilline he of rhode island. >> thank you, mr. chairman. thank you for this hearing and

for bringing deborah peter to ui for a conversation earlier for o before this.ring. it is a tremendous honor to meem with her and seeee what her ther extraordinary courage and theam story that her family was soi ke brutalized by boko haram. we are doing everything we can to hold these individualsohank u accountable and rescue these girls and we thank you for being with usg with u today. >> when you look at information in t we have learned about the impact of bits, in addition to more than 4000 people having been killed in related violencem more than 6 million americans300 have been dissected and it's's important for us to understandr and for the world to understandn the impactd an of this. first qo so my first question is do we

have a sense of where they get o their resources and the weaponr in the financialswh are? >> congressman, i think that ia, briefly touched on this already, but there is a variety of access to financing and equipment and some of it comes from their activities in nigeria. whether it is stealing resources, food, equipment, whether it's taking them from the military and other securityn services, you may be familiarnt with an incident where they hade a nigerian air force base destroyed come for example, and also through kidnapping and resources at their disposal. so they are able to speak about this and there's a connection in

that regard. >> the responsibility has to p come from the nigerian people and that requires him to focus rnancere issues and reduction of corruption in thena mass arrests and disappearancesu so what canma we do and what is the u.s. doing in additiondo toe that so that they have the capacity to respond and whatrage kind of leverage do we really have in this moment to really make that case and do you seeey any signs they are serious about undertaking the recommendations and what they might be?ate to >> we have this issue and it's indicative of both our level of

concern in our level of support in our willingness to communicate at the highest levels. so i think that this is a very important time in terms of determination coupled with colleagues from around the world all over europe and beyond who are similarly outraged at the situation and now is the time to provide maximum support as we engage with the government of nigeria. >> last thing i want to mention is that been working on legislation to address this which there is an emergency necessity that should authorize this issue. i'md just curious. it seems as if this relates to o mother who has attempted to come back to the united states to ata pvision in trieve a child and

there is actually not a provision in the existing state sheepment protocol because had they argue there is notuffi sufficient basis and in therstai example that we heard about thie morning.ms it seems as if i'm on the right track and we are trying toin develop some exemption andnce oa emergency issuance of a visa for those who have been victims of t terrorism or we can set the criteria which i think everyone agrees doesn'tvisa, make sense t would just like your thoughts on little >> i know very little about the visa process. so i don't feel comfortablechai commenting.k >> thankyou. you. >> thank you.chairman.

thank you, mr. chairman. in your judgment, does nigeria currently have the military capability of defeating boko haram?congman, >> congressman, from my perspective nigeria's military is the force with which i am i' most familiar. they have been the premier peacekeeping force for manyce decades focus external to theirn country if you think about their anng history in that regard. in the process of a peacekeepin orientation to focusing on a domestic insurgents he is oneomc thing that takes an entire celebration in terms of how youy engage in the home country.hat >> as of today they don't, thatt things have to be done beforeli? capability.of >> when we speak of the

capability, part of it is the as ategic approach and approache mindset and as yet nigeria has not yet finalized aerrorism counterterrorism strategic approach which leaves gaps in terms of the operational security forces in the training and readiness and equipment that is available to them. >> do you have any idea of howgr boko haram will be defeatedeat today?r >> i want to answer it i h thoroughly so steppingav back oy moment saying that the ability a of the police force toctively dt effectively defeat an insurgenc is limited and that is just the. first point to make that this is why the u.s. has been in a the n dialogue that includes economic development and political t empowerment and a host of other

things. thehings. nigerians have capabie that is strong and the number of k thin and the challenge for both the police and the military is how their assets and resources, human and otherwise, are actually deployed. and that is why the question iso about this and that is why there is a mindset that is so e critical. >> i'm not sure if i'm getting . response, but i'm trying to get something simple.d whether the nigerian police andv military have a capability as of today toe the defeat boko haramo radius, no?know >> the united states when it began its invasion was the finest. ited state military.sork >> i'm asking for a yes or a no or i don't know. i can't go into a >> itlogue. >> it's's complicated. >> is that a fair way to assess your opinion?way

>> one short answer, can you. s give me, that describes your w opinion of whether bokoh harambd today can be defeated by the nigerian police and military. the think that with the appropriate political redirection as well as the concerted effort on capabilities n , that the country of nigeria can make synecdoche and progress completelytely eliminating the timeframe that i would hedge on have done that. but i don't think there's any question that the government ofn nigeria has.ur >> thank you for your response in chapter one, article one, united paragraph one, it states that the purposes of the united nations are to maintain international peace and securite to that and to take effectiven f suplective measures for the

suppression of acts of of aggression or other breaches ofk the peace. if we look at the history of of in nigeria, august 26 ofmb 2011, and obama attack 12state. targets and over 150 peoplekill. killed. 12 are very talked about the young schoolgirls who werelled. attacked. an attack lasting 12 hours, 300 people killed. the list goes on andth on. obam and as of today, what has the seama administration undertaken to secure a force to take on them as much as that seems to be the primary purpose of the united nationsas charter. sover typically when there is an insurgency within a government,

the government is expected to address the security threat and is free to seek assistance. terrorism has typically been treated in a slightly different venue. boko haram has elements of both. and so i think that it is certainly -- that there are a variety of ways in which the international community can respond to what is increasingly recognized as a threat -- >> >> my question is why has the obama administration been w w working and what have they donee to eliminate the influence ofhas boko haram in central africa as that is the primary purpose of the united nations.he and this includes the threats and the suppression of acts ofaa aggression. so what has the obama adchnistration done to invoke the charter to do their job. e

>> what they have been doing ha since then is working to strengthen nigeria's capacity and this began the program. co the nigerianmm government has b makingto t dho e progress they d to make and they need to decide to commit themselves to do that in ways that are similar to thosees learning curves that wen the united states have had to take. >> thank you, mr. chairman. >> here we go again. so we have this and clearly these girls are kidnapped.

is that true? >> someone in the administration and boko haram? answer >> you really want me to answer questions been asked enact no, sir. somow >> changing talking points to make sure that the administration was ejected even at the expense of in the victims? >> no, sir. >> conciliatory tactics to prevent effective action by the iot united nations, well-known ialaa might say to my friend for itsn. effective action, so we were engaged in some kind of act acti committee ton slow down and nota designate them in a timely fashion or coordinatenational

thternational reaction to the unspeakable outrage of the kidnapping of these young women? >> i would argue that the uniten states has been among the most e concern within the internationau community. >> concluding at the united>> is nations?n >> it has been a concern of evid american officials as itnificant inspires significant andonnel ad natns?ial investments. >> concluding at the united nations? >> including at the united nations and so are as we have been supporting the efforts ofs nigeria to designate the country terrorist organization.terror >> i guess from your testimonys, that there is no evidence evi whatsoever other than an concer administration doing everything in its power to try to assistco the governor of nigeria when necessary to try to take effective action to releasedefag

these young women. is that correct been a. we >> and we're trying to do foreign policy. there used to be a time and it was actually a republican pronounce the philosophy that are differences are part of this for the sake of the country that seems to be something deplorable and it will yield to the temptation to try to make political points off of thisis kind of tragedy. somehow holding the president responsible, especially with any

unsavory or tragic event occurs around the world.n pun and this is not for the of this country or the congress. congr so why can't we come together to support this cohesive policy to effectuate the goal, which is tt listen and dismantle boko haram t and released safely these young women to their families and try to prevent that kind of activitm them occurring again. isn't that the goal? and need you to answer on the w record. >> i think that all americans share a concern concern in the

united states will be strong in supporting the desires of the american people in regard to that. >> we are laying out the safeery recovery of the schoolgirls inee >> aeffective part to the region. >> those t articles. those are the goals of this government. is that correct? are >> those are among our many goals. >> i'm talking specifically o since thisn hearing is focused n that.ity. and honestly it's not only the h desired of americans, but the gm announced policy of united the united states government that we want them released. >> that is correct. >> i traveled to convey that.> d >> can you both be sure that ou government is doing everything

in his power? entire >> the president and the secretary of state is doing everything it can. point >> from the defense department point of view?>> we have >> we have put our maximum maxiu effort into this and we hope tot support them in an any way theyt will let us. >> i thank you for yourare ma testimony. we are behind you in trying to make that happen. thank you for your service to this country and thank you for trying to help us achieve a positive end in this tragic set of events. thank you, mr. chairman. >> mr. scott perry of pennsylvania. >> thank you, mr. chairman. dr. sewall, it's my understanding that officials have repeated -- administration officials have repeatedly stated that boko haram is not motivated by religious causes but by issues of economic deprivation. is that -- is state department also led to that conclusion? >> i'm not sure what the --

whether there is a piece of paper that describes the state department's view about the motivations of boko haram. what i can tell you is we know from watching boko haram over the years that they are bent on destroying institutions that support the people of nigeria in the northeast. and that they have no compunction about killing any nigerian that is in their path. >> i understand and i think we as americans understand that but i'm trying to focus on how state department views boko haram. >> we view boko haram as a terrorist organization. >> and what is their motivation, if you can describe that. what are they motivated by? not what are their actions, what are they motivated by? >> i'm not in the head of their leader. i've watched the video like you have. >> i understand. but you must make assessments. >> we do make assessments. as in the case of the lra, sometimes it's easier to discern motivations than others. al qaeda is very clear about its motivations. some other terrorist organizations are a combination

of criminally motivated, ego maniacally motivated and opportunistic. so i think it's really important -- >> would you accept that they're motivated by religious fanaticism. extremist islamic religious fanaticism. >> i can speak to the elements of religion -- >> i know you can speak to it. is that a clear assessment or would you assess it somehow differently than i've just stated? >> i've you're asking for an official state department assessment i will need to take that question back and return it to you later. >> all right. i just want to give you this information and you can roll that up into your assessment. when the leader of boko haram says that nobody can stop us and live in peace except if you accept islam and live by sharia law. he has also said they will kill anyone who stands against the will of allah by opposing sharia and they are fighting a religious war against the christians and has also said we will kill whoever practices democracy.

with that, when he says things like that and says nobody can live in peace except if you accept islam and live by sharia, do you see any economic nexus there? >> i think when he talks about religionism as one lens through which he defines his enemies, i think that's very revealing. when he talks about democracy about one lens through which he defines his enemies, i think that's very revealing. when he decides that killing people who are seeking an education, it constitutes his ideology. i think that's very revealing. so i think it is a mix of things among which clearly in his rhetoric religion is very important. >> is there an economic -- because i've heard the administration and got reports of the administration saying -- >> okay, i understand now. yeah. so the economic nexus is something that we have learned through our own experience with combatting both violent

extremism and counterinsurgency, which is to say if you have a well governed, economically vibrant society, you are less likely to have disenfranchised persons who can be lured by extremist ideology of any type. >> i understand the lure, but that has nothing to do with their motivation. that's how they recruit. their motivation is otherwise. >> their motivation is economic insofar as he was talking about ransom -- kidnap for ransom as being a means of finance themselves. >> i understand that's the way of financing, but administration officials say that their motivation -- the reason they exist is due to economic deprivation that they don't have, but there are many people in countries around the world that don't resort to kidnappings, killings, bombings and forced views on extremist religious ideology, but i move on. would you -- does the administration, does state department accept and acknowledge that there's a nexus

with boko haram and the muslim brotherhood. >> do you want to speak to that? >> quickly, please, if you could. >> congressman, from the department of defense perspective, i'm not aware of a linkage, but i would be glad to take that back. >> i've got the linkage here which shows the leaders came from and it depogoes way back te 1980s. here's my last concern in my last 15 seconds. it seems to me in some ways that the state department is living in some altered state of reality that yet most of the world understands and recognizes. if you can't acknowledge your adversary and your enemy for who they are, there's no way to combat them effectively. and i appreciate, mr. chairman, just your indulgence as i close up. this holistic approach should include something in the national security strategy, and i can see no inclusion in the national security strategy that either of you folks are

following and that's my concern because we can't fix the problem if we don't identify it. thank you, mr. chairman. >> mr. juan vaur gas of california. >> mr. chairman, thank you very much for the opportunity to speak. i have to say i think you can see the emotions up here because we're very much outraged with what has happened and i think the american people are outraged but i have to ask this question. where's the muslim outrage? i mean i have to say that if this happened and they did it in the name of christ, from the pope on down to the street preacher, everyone would be yelling and screaming this is not right, this does not follow our religion, it's wrong, and people would try to find these girls and these people. so i mean i ask where is the outrage from the imans. where is the outrage, this is an insult to islam. it has to be. they're peaceful people. i had the opportunity and the privilege of having a muslim

family live with me and my family for two years because of what was going on in kosovo so we adopted this family and they lived with us, and they're wondersful people. and they live peacefully. they have two girls, i have two girls. i love my daughters as much as they love their daughters and i have to ask where is the outrage? and again, if this was happening in the name of christianity, every official christian group from, you know, the catholics down to the unorganized christians, everyone would think this is the biggest scandal in the world. where is the outrage? >> well, where i heard the outrage when i was in abuja was from the voices that were demonstrating in the public squares, which included community leaders and just community members and concerned citizens, many of them from the borno state who are in -- they were by and large muslim and

were outraged at the perversion of islamic tenets in the rhetoric of the boko haram leadership. so i think certainly in the context of nigeria there is outrage and it comes from the community that is most affected by these events. >> i have to say it doesn't seem like it. as someone who watches the news all the time, and i know that the muslim community and the world has gotten outraged over other things, where they protested in the street and gotten very angry and understandably so in some instances. i don't see that here. i mean i see us fighting and very frustrated over this issue. i see us fighting over whether the administration is doing enough, why aren't we sending the soldiers, you know, we have people there, we ought to go out find them, shoot them, kill them and rescue these girls. that's basically what we're saying up here and we're frustrated because we don't seem to be able to do that, it

violates a lot of laws but i think as every parent that's what we want to do. go find the bad guys and put them away or shoot them. but you don't see and you don't feel this outrage in the rest of the muslim world, you don't see it. it is shocking to me. you would think they would be turning in these people and say here they are. come and get them, here they are. maybe you can tell us and maybe you'll tell us in a secured situation, a classified situation, but is there this type of help in the community there? are they helping us find the bad guys? >> so if the question is whether tactically on the ground there is an outpouring of support to identify the boko haram people, i think what you see -- i think the way to characterize the situation in nigeria is that boko haram has so terrorized the local population that they are very fearful of being perceived as participants in the war by actively cooperating with the government. the situation, of course, is

greatly complicated by the fact that security forces from the seventh division have often in their pursuit of boko haram killed numerous civilians in addition to boko haram. so by virtue of trying to draw attention to an area, they could be jeopardizing their own children. so it's very difficult -- >> no, that part is understandable. no one is saying that the nigerian military -- government has clean hands here. i mean i think that's the issue. they have done some terrible things and that's why i think the population has a lot of issues. that's the underlying problem you're trying to solve. but at the same time it seems that there was more outrage in the muslim world, there would be more pressure to try to find these guys and rescue these girls and there doesn't seem to be it. that's really my question and i will yield back after that, mr. chairman. but again, i find it disturbing that there is not more outrage. the outrage comes from the western world and the outrage should be coming from the muslim

world. we've got to do something here. thank you. >> thank you, mr. vargas. ms. dory has to be at the pentagon for a meeting at noon and we appreciate her being here this morning. i'll remind members of an all-house closed session on boko haram, which we will be doing, eliot engel and i in the house will be doing tomorrow. dr. sewall has agreed to finish with our members who remain. so we appreciate that very much, but ms. dory, we will let you go. thank you. we go now to rhonda santos -- ron desantos. >> florida. >> thank you, mr. chairman. dr. sewall, i know my colleague from south carolina, mr. duncan, had asked whether the boko haram

attack on the school girls was anti-christian in nature, whether that was one of their motivatio motivations, and you seemed to suggest that it was not. did i hear you correctly? >> i believe what you heard me say is that the attack was against nigerian school girls. >> but you don't think that it was an attack motivated by being anti-christian at all? >> again, you're asking for speaking to motivation when i'm unable to be in the mind of someone and i hope never to be in the mind of someone like the leader of boko haram. >> and i don't expect you too -- >> and of course in the case of the school girls, i believe it was some 15% of them were muslim. so it was the education and the freedom and empowerment and the progress that boko haram was attacking as it attacked the school girls as much as it was anything to do with religion. i'm not denying that religion

doesn't appear to be a very important factor for the leadership, but that is -- that is different from saying it is the sole motivation and it is different from trying to understand the impact of their actions on muslim civilians throughout the northeast. >> well, and i appreciate that. and certainly you can't get into their head. and i don't necessarily say that it's the sole motivation, but i think we have to realize this is an animating feature. you can't get into his head, but you can listen to what he says. and this is quoting from his speech. we know what is happening in the world. it is a jihad war against christians and christianity. it is a war against western education, democracy and constitution. this is a war against christians and democracy and their constitution. a law says we should finish them when we get them. so clearly he believes that christianity, constitutionalism, liberal democracy, he's putting those things together and he's saying that his belief and his version of islam is what's

motivating him to do that. and i think to try to -- i mean there was a colloquy with mr. perry about, you know, are they an islamic terrorist group. would you feel confident putting the fact that, yeah, they're a terrorist group specifically operating in the name of islam? >> well, again, you know, i don't -- when they recruit people forcibly and make them fight for them, i don't know what percentage of their force is essentially enslaved and what percentage of their force represents the extreme and neolistic views of the leadership. i agree with you that their rhetoric includes significant religious motivation but it also includes motivation that reflects westernization more broadly. we know that modernization and westernization and education for that matter is an equal opportunity inclusive of all

faiths process, and so they are motivated by something that goes beyond just christianity based on what they say and what they do. >> but it conflicts with their faith. he said i'm greeting you in the name of allah. the law is great and has given us the privilege and temerity above all people. so the anti-western posture is flowing from this. you read his speech and he starts getting into all kinds of issues. he says he believes in marrying off 9-year-old he thinks that's acceptable, and he cited the justification. he defends slavery and criticizes human rights. again, he cited islam as the reason for that. he threatens to kill the president of the united states, and so i think we're dealing with here -- you see the video. the school girls being forced to wear islamic garb, being forced

to cite the koran. he is trying to spread this ideology, this group is spreading the ideology by the sword because they know that it's fundamentally at odds with human reason and that if these girls are allowed to be educated in that school, they're obviously not going to think that his ideology is something that's very attractive. that's what we're dealing with here. i just hope that we can understand the motivation. if we try to put a western frame of reference on how they behave and say, well, maybe it's because they think there's some economic problem, this and that, some of those things may be a factor, but at the end of the day had he think that that speech and that conduct make clear what their motivation is. i would just hope that we would be willing and always have our eyes open and not try to blind ourselves to reality. i yield back. >> we go now to lois frankel from florida.

back for calm sounding board here today. mr. chair, for this bipartis bipartisansh bipartisanship -- i would call it a bipartisan show of humanity, and i very much enjoyed meeting today also with debra peterson. she has a lovely sparkle in her eye and a lovely smile. wonderful resilience. she told us the very sad story of how she basically fled nigeria three years ago after she witnessed the murder of her father and her brother because her father was the pastor of a christian church, and then her 14-year-old brother was shot because as debra related, her -- one of the terrorists said, well, he will grow up to be the pastor of the church. i hope, mr. chair, that we're going to be able to help her

with her viesa issue and to unite her with her mother. debra, i wish you the best. she's studying to be a doctor. i know you will be a very fine doctor. you know what, when i heard about the children being kidnapped, i'm sure i reacted like most people around the world, which is i thought of the time when my son was much younger, and i would drop him off to school every day, and i can't even imagine what it would be like to have learned that his entire school had been kidnapped and then maybe sold into slavery and i know that i would be screaming from the top of my lungs and insisting that this government do everything possible to get them back. there are some crimes against human apt, and no matter where it happens, it requires a response. i know it's complicated, but i want to add my echo to what the chair said that i -- first of

all, i hathank the president sending a team working with israel, france, united kingdom to try to bring these girls back, but as much as we can do, i want to add my voice to those who say we must bring these girls home. you know, this is more than just a crime against humanity. i want to fwet into this education angle because the boko haram means, i think, western education is a sin. because they know -- they know that when you educate children, it is a step towards freedom, democracy, and peace in the world to have educated children, educated with a western slant, and so when we ignore -- when we allow children to be kidnapped because they are partaking in western education, we are

failing our own children here. i hope we can do more, and along those lines, i wanted to ask you -- i know this is a long-term situation, but what are we doing to try to fight the corruption that we're finding, which seems to be indemmic in so many government that is are having such serious problems around the world. >> thanks. so, first, we don't shy away from the issue. we raise it as in the bilateral conversation because it is ultimately a limiting factor not just in how we interact with the government, but also in terms of the government's ability to provide for and protect its sit sfwlenz, and so we are vocal about our concerns. we also work with specific

elements within the law enforcement sector to improve both investigatory capacity and in many cases judicial capacity to identify and prosecute corruption cases. this has been a hallmark of our existence in many different areas of the world, and it is capacity building in a all-bound, values-based, accountable and transparent ethos. it is slow work. it is painstaking work. it does ultimately require the commitment of an everenlarging circle of leadership within whichever country. many countries take different approaches to trying to address widespread and systematic corruption, and there are different degrees of success with different approaches. we continue to do whatever we are able and in the case of

nigeria, it has been very specific training and capacity-building. we will continue to press this issue because nigeria is the most populous country in africa. it is an economic juggernaut, and it is extraordinarily diverse and extraordinarily important for a whole host of american security interests. they have elections coming up in 2015. there are the future of democracy is very much at issue in those elections in terms of both the transparency to the elections and the risk of violence afterwards. if nigeria can handle -- can address its corruption in a meaningful way, there is no limit on what that country can become, and it is a huge opportunity there for the government to seize, so it's very much in their interest to address it, but the conversation will be ongoing, and we will

continue to press it. >> thank you. i yield back, mr. chair. >> we go to -- from florida. >> thank you, mr. chairman. doc, appreciate you sitting through this. i'm looking at your title, undersecretary of civilian security, democracy, and human rights, and you've been there since february 2014. correct? i just find it interesting when i look back over the history of nigeria the amount of foreign aid that's been giving there. it's roughly over $400 billion, which is six times the marshall plan to rebuild europe after world war ii for one country. yet, it's wrought with corruption, and the undersect of -- we've been fighting that campaign for, what, 20, 30, 40 years to try to correct that problem over there, and without putting blame on any administration, it's a problem with what we're trying to accomplish and how we go about

it. we give money over and over again. last year we gave $6399 million. $2012 we gave $647 million. the majority -- their legislators make the highest wages in any government in the world. more than the british parliament. yet, the average wage over 70% of the population lives below 1.29 pounds a day, which is about less than $4 a day, and we're giving all this foreign aid, and then we have the situation with what we have with boko haram and the situation we have with that we're not getting to the root cause of the problem. how do you -- what do you see that we do different than what we've done in the past to change the dynamics, because if you don't change dynamics, nothing is going to change. they're going to continue to kidnap people. they're going to continue to kill people, and they're going to continue to have a corrupt

government. what are we doing? i saw the obama administration threaten to cut off all foreign aid to them, which i applaud. how do we go further and change the dynamics over there, and i would like to hear what you have to say about that. >> sure. well, i think, you know, again, if we parse the question a little bit in the context of what kind of aid do we provide and what do we get for it, my understanding is that the bulk of our assistance -- certainly now. i can't speak to 40 years ago, but certainly now it's in the realm of health assistance. significantly h.i.v. aids assistance. >> that's going to continue. the problem is going to continue. if they don't care for their own people, we can't go in there. we can build any school you want, but if they're going to come back there and just dismantle it, it's -- what do you do to the government to change government without telling them how to live? you know, what is that underlying cause or core value that they want to see succeed in their country for their people? if they don't have that, we don't need to be giving them

aid. >> the government is not tearing down things. it's boko haram that's tearing down things. the government -- the issue of government -- government performance in the northeast is related to its -- it has many different components. >> boko haram is just a fruition of government not being in check and taking care of what they need to because they're not building the infrastructure. if they're taking all that wealth, i mean, there is $11 billion in oil money that was funneled off that went to the politicians. back in the 1990s there was the president sonny abacca died in bed with two indian prostitutes, and they're not taking care of their own country, and if they don't want to take care of their own country, nothing is going to change, and i want to know what we're going to do from a foreign policy standpoint to change the dine mechanics of that. >> so one of the important changes has been the movement towards democracy. i think we can all agree that

that is a significant change in the context of nigeria's history, and so one of the more important things to do is to support a transparent and accountable democratic process, and i spent a significant amount of time talking to the government about the upcoming 2015 elections and how it would be run and how hopefully they won't be disenfranchising the three states in the north by virtue of a state of emergency and how we need to be planning now and encourage them to plan now for violence that predictably happens after the elections, but more -- so democracy is one big theme of change, but in terms of what i think you're coming from -- and then the issue of if you have a democratic system that is vi vibrant, you have the ability to hold people to account. the focus that the united states has had on enhancing civil society voices to hold governments accountable and to demand greater transparency in budgets, for example, is a long-term process, but i think that's one hopeful mechanism. >> how can you do that when over 70% of the population is below poverty? they don't have a voice.

>> well, in many countries, including our own, there's great income disparity, but if you have a vote, you have a vote, and so that is i think an important l. democracy. i think in terms of what -- when i look at the state department's contributions to things that are occurring into capacity building within nigeria, i think they're in line with efforts to make the country more accountable and more responsible, both as an international security actor and as a government, so, for example, military training and education enhancing them in their role as regional peacekeepers, anti-terrorism assistance, piloting program on women, peace, and security, helping them in the context of their regional security responsibilities and their west african regional security responsibilities and improving rule of law, those are the kinds of programs that the state department facilitates that i think are necessary elements of progress, but i agree completely

with your point, and i hope i made it effectively in my opening remarks that ultimately the government does need to be accountable and corruption is an indemic problem. >> i appreciate your response. i'm out of time. i yield back. >> we're going to steve stockman of texas. >> i'm listening to this debate. it reminds me of the 1930s. we had a similar problem where we were trying to rationalize irrationale behavior, and we didn't want to call it anything. we had a judge, if you want to call him a gentleman, who is committing genocide in the country, and we can't say what his motivation is. you may not be able to say it, but it's hatred, and he continues to hate, and i really resent one of my colleagues to say that our side is asking questions by political motivation. we had the deepest compassion. we want to resolve thshg but we want to -- we want to support the president, but we cannot gather around a hash tag. we want to call it what it is.

this gentleman or whatever you want to call him, hates. i hear the same words coming from this administration that they call the speaker of the house, and the speaker of the house they called a terrorist, and i don't think he is the same as what we're seeing in nigeria, and i like to yield a minute to my colleague from alabama to respond to i think unfair criticism and the balance to my friend from new jersey. we have to start calling things what they are, and to quivocate as to what they are and who they are is a mistake. >> let's yield to mr. brooks, and then we'll have the response. >> mr. chairman, i take a moment to respond to the rather part sfwlan mischaracterization and my remarks by congressman connolly of virginia. as the record shows and proves, i merely ask the witnesses to detail what the obama administration has done or not done to encourage the united nations in accord with the first sentence of its charter to engage in "effective collective

measures for the prevention of threats to the peace." mr. chairman, i submit that questions directed at getting the united nations to do its job so that america does not have to once again be the only sheriff in town is something all members of congress of both parties can get behind without the kinds of partisan attacks and responses that were recently uttered. thank you for the time. >> thank you to my friend for yielding. first of all, i want to make something very clear. this hearing has made me even more concerned than i was when i caulked in the door. that is a fundamental radical nature of boko haram and the radical islam belief. as my colleagues mr. desabt yoes pointed out so eloquently, we have to be able to call it for what it is. in 2012 47 christian churches were attacked, two mosques. 2013, 53 churches attacked, two

mosques. i went to mr. emmanuel was there when we went to an idp camp. we met with hundreds of christians that were targeted for one and only one reason. because they were christians. one man we brought here and he sat where you sat, mr. odamu, and he said they put an ak-47 to his jaw and blew his face off after he would not answer the question correctly. will you convert to islam or not? he said no, i am ready to see my lord. i am a christian. they blew his face away. that is the underlying fundamental of boko haram. they hate western education. they hate a lot of things. at the core, as mr. desantos pointed out so well, just watch what they say. it is about radical islamic belief, and i wish -- you know, you said you wish they would -- they would differentiate or discriminate -- they were so discriminating. yes, they'll hit other nigerians. they'll hit other westerners,

but christians are their main target. secondly, i want to strongly associate my remarks and concerns with concerns raised by chairman rice at the leahy amendment as having the unintended consequence of precluding best practices, military training of well-vetted nigerian forces. you said wrerl, and i hope it was out of context that it's not our problem to solve this. well, maybe not alone, but certainly in tandem with the neej earian deposit and the families that have lost their daughters and others who may be at risk of losing their sons and daughters. one of the biggest takeaways i had was talking to our own people who said leahy is -- we're all for leahy. it needs to be looked at in a calibrated fashion. there can be stood up those forces in the nigerian military who are well vetted to become a strike force and make all the difference in the world and maybe they're about to do that, but it should have been done for

years. there's nothing whatsoever partisan about this. i have raised this. members of the other side have raised first the fto concerns and then we get, again, johnny carson saying -- i quote this because i still am amazed at this. "the phenomenon of boko haram is one of discrediting the central government and power for its failure to deliver services to the people." that's an insult to the poor. poor people don't join the -- there's a radical islamic perspective being promoted here and a gang-like mentality, and, of course, al qaeda and the like and others like it are a part of this. please take back the idea of what mr. chairman royce talked about because we do things, i think, strongly. we've got to be able to help the military stand up with capability. >> thank you. congressman, i appreciate your passion, and i appreciate your leadership on this issue for so very long.

it's very important that congress be participating in the formation of foreign policy, and i want to be very clear because i don't want to be understood. the question that i was asked was whether there was an official state department position on the motivations of boko haram, which i simply don't have with me. if the question is does the leadership of boko haram and through the abbings of boko haram, target christianity absolutely unekwifically. more fundamentally, had he target other things too, and they are a threat to the government and to the region, and so i loved the very clear characterization that was just offered, which is that boko haram is motivate bid hatred. i don't think anybody would disagree with that. i endorse it 100%, and i think it simplifies the problem because we all recognize that boko haram is a threat that must be addressed. in terms of the leahy law, well vetted units, we work with. we work with now. we've been working with them for

years. the problem can arise when units cannot be vetted, but where units are vetted and only 50% have not been able to be vetted, the united states is engaging in robust security cooperation, and so i think it's just very important as we look at the leahy law and as we remember that the fight in nigeria is fundamentally about human rights and freedoms. we would wish to honor the leahy law's commitment to human rights in that context, and it's only if we were to find that we could not do that, be both consistent to the leahy law's commitment to human rights and work in support of the human rights of nigerians, that we would need to look at alternatives. so i just wanted to both be very clear about my endorsement of the characterization as the motivation of boko haram as being hatred, and i think that's a very powerful and unifying way to think about the problem, which is a regional if not international problem, and agree with you that in the context of

the leahy law where units are well vetted, we should and we are work closely with them to enhance nigeria's capacity to address this horrific threat. thank you. >> thank you, doctor. i'm just going to clarify this point because this testimony was as late as last week by the defense department testifying in the senate and i'll quote because this gets back to the point at hand. the leahy law is a persistent and very troubling limitation on our ability to provide assistance particularly training assist wrans that the nigerians so badly need. with my opening line of questioning, i laid out the difficulty. the difficulty is finding a way for our forces to assist with the capabilities that we bring, which are unique, to