ideological, professional, i don't see a way around that except to try to have competitive assessments going on at the same time. and possible biases to the surface. >> my view -- >> just to point grammatically there is no archimedes point for policy evaluation that doesn't require human beings to make judgments, judgments would be affected by the usual costs. >> it doesn't address the problem. remember i had three components of innovation, experimentation, learning and evolution. the evaluations by external contractors is part of the learning process and i didn't say that there is -- that government's problem is that it

can't learn about whether programs are working or not. the problem is the action that takes place as a result of learning, the evolution. that is where any organization resists getting rid of things that don't work. it will do anything to avoid that. it was different in the private sector. i have been in the private sector and if you are not confronted with the discipline of profit and loss in a big way, you are not inclined to undertake evolutionary change yourself. so i think you can get useful evaluation internally and from contractors but in the end you won't get the evolution. >> a very brief comment. very good example which i discuss in the book is head

start where outside evaluators and the department of health and human services has done very costly and extensive assessments for the program over the course of many decades and they have pretty uniformly, there is in defense but uniformly show the effects of head start, positive effects of head start erode by the third grade and even over the summer, some contrasting claims, maybe they are right, hard to say but anyone receiving that report in 2011 when i think it was conducted would have said maybe we should cut back head start and maybe begin experimenting with alternatives to head start. that is not what is done. they made, head start has made some minor changes. they will require competitive applications from the lowest

ranking programs, that is good, i suppose, how it is implemented but it is a good example that the evaluation is often to dismiss or discard or misrepresent. >> today's proceedings will be shown on c-span probably this weekend, they will turn up within a few days that kato.org/events. we have other good videos to watch too. we will be heading upstairs and those of you wondering about these facilities, bathroom facilities on the second fully will pass the yellow wall where you will find those. thank you for joining peter schuck. [applause] [inaudible conversations]

>> you are watching booktv, nonfiction authors and books every weekend on c-span2. next, from the 2014 national black writers conference panel discussion on the state of publishing. this is about an hour and a half. [silence] [laughter]

>> leasing gentlemen. [laughter] >> i am dr. lindamichelle baron, i am from the sister college, a fabulous institution, i am honored to be here to introduce the panel for today, the state of publishing. in doing so this is the 2014 odyssey. you will have lost everything i said but i have an opportunity to introduce a friend of mine, a person i consider a friend who is in the world of publishing. i will give you a little bit of information and she is going to be the moderator of this on this

auspicious occasion. linda dragons is from grand central publishing, an imprint of hachette book group, a co-founder of a harlem book fair. she has helped to create a nationally recognized venue, of the most literacy and literary expression with writers of the diaspora. she is the crater and producer of the annual international women's history month literary escort, free library of baltimore. so much more about her. i won't read any more if you promise you'll read about her. is that a deal? could we welcome a person that you will have a pleasure for to moderate today? linda duncan. [applause] >> thank you, professor. >> good afternoon, everybody. thank you for making time out of

your day to spend with us. as you heard, this panel is the state of publishing, 2014 odyssey. in my mind we might as well call it a 2014 space odyssey. we all know the publishing industry is in major flux. we are dealing with some of the same opportunities and challengess as we were during the very first national black writers conference. it still is a wonderful trip. the publishing landscape is a strange and beautiful combination of culture, commerce and art. the theme of this conference, the 12 national black writers conference is as you have heard, black writers reconstructing the narrative. it is vitally important that we build our presence, the black writers contribution to this literary canon. we create and must continue to create our stories because we are a part for of this

collective narrative. toni morrison said critics generally don't associate black people with ideas, they say marginal people, and very parochial. we are people, not aliens. we live, we love and we die. today we talk about the language of publishing and how readers and publishing professionals and those aspiring to be published play a role in this journey to read this narrative. we all know there is absolutely nothing post racial about the publishing industry. conversations that take place in the 60s and on and on i still happening in 2014. in march of 2014 the board of directors of the national association of black dentist's and an open letter to news media

start ups. na bj is america's oldest and largest -- they represent more than 3,000 talented media professionals. era of the matter address the lack of diversity in not just legacy newsrooms but that the current crop of news media start ups as well. in january of this year the pure research center reported on what those of us already knew, black women read period. we read more books than any of the group's survey or not. i don't even care what the survey says. again, nothing post racial about this fact. black women created literary societies in the late eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries in this country. i am on the board of directors of the 12-year-old national club conference based in atlanta. the national book club conference is an annual gathering of black book clubs from around the country, over 100 groups meet every year. these businesses hail all over

the country, and they buy tons of books. we drew and we draw upon the creative genius of many, gwendolyn brooks, margaret walker, j. calif. cooper, delaney, terry williams, the list goes on and on and on. james baldwin spoke at the role of the writer in america conference in 1960 at san francisco state college. he said, quote, a country is only as strong as the people who make it up and the country turns into what the people want it to become. this country is going to be transformed. it will not be transformed by an act of god but all of us, you and me. i didn't believe we could afford to say it is entirely out of our hands. we made the world we living in

and we have to make it over. the language of publishing is will be argued to talk about this afternoon, economics, technology, cultural ascetics, creativity. just like anywhere else in the world, in your home, in my home all publishing houses have their own cultural values and norms, cultural messaging going on all over the tests place. are we paying attention? can we go with the flow and the flexible? what do we bring to the mix? how do we see ourselves in this industry. do you know who you are? are you grounded enough to hold onto your foundation while the landscape shifts all around you and through you? we have lots of work to do on many different levels but this amazing panel and me, total, 95 years of publishing experience up here so lot of information these folks have and we step you

through nuts and bolts and talk about these global issues that we face, inside the publishing house, outside the publishing house but more importantly in our own self, truly. so panelists, we have paul coates, founder and director of black plastic for specializing in publishing obscure and significant works by and about people of african descent. paul coates is a leader in the field of independent publishers and b c d digital printing, black classic pressed digital printing in to 1995 for digital print technology. and collecting and publishing books, by and about black folks is a love affair that has continued for more four decade so that 95 years-40. and the 11 started her career as an administrative assistant to the new york times best selling

author terry woods. latoya smith worked at kensington and is an editor of grant's and for publishing. she will tell you about the types of books she likes to require. she is looking for some special things and she will let you know about that. ayesha pande has worked in the publishing industry for many years. she will tell you how many. she has worked in the publishing industry for 20 years before becoming an agent, she was senior editor at s.g. and held editorial positions at harpercollins and crown publishing and troy johnson is a technology expert in marketing books on the web. he is founder and web master of a a ldc.com, african american literature book club. it was launched in 1998 and his largest and most frequently visited web site dedicated to books and films by and about

african descent. we have a lot to talk about today. let's talk about the bowery port. the end of 2012, 3500 books were published each day in the united states in one form or fashion. reviews and interviews, advertising, marketing, all of that is very important, but panelists, how do you conveyed a message to your rogers and clients, the real deal is reaching their readers, how do you do that? start with you. >> there are a large number of ways of reaching and audience. my specialty is doing that on line but i recognize that is part of a much broader ecosystem of getting the word out about books. at the end of the day when you ask someone how do they discover a book, generally word of mouth,

they find out from a fellow friend. how does the friend find out? historically we were able to find out about books in our local bookstore. that has become increasingly difficult. we have been able to find them on the web and that's surprisingly has become more and more difficult despite technology, despite faster, better software. it has become more difficult. not covered art books in magazines. to answer that question, it has become increasingly challenging. and the advent of new technology, social media for example. we have to become an expert in a lot of different things. and they didn't need to become

experts in. that is part of the thing i would like to come up with, how do we expose people to books, when i first started my website i could sit back and wait for every new book to come across the land site. and that is just impossible. is impossible to discover the good books out there but there are so many coming at you, fire hydrants a difficult to define which ones are worth reading. >> ayesha pande. as an agency work with all different types of writers. as a publicist, writers and others are surprised, you have a lot of work to do. to get the book out into the marketplace and publishing house, and more important when

the book is published. how do you help your clients understand the terrain? >> one of my important jobs i find is to help manage my expectations meaning to make it clear to them what the publishing posts can do for them. to communicate and collaborate with their editor and publisher and publicists to make sure each one of them works to their greater strengths. the publishing house is great in getting reviews, pitching to television and radio. the author, the things the author can do with his strength is is a great at social media. and lots of twitter followers?

to keep building on that to put the word out to their followers is they don't have a twitter account at all, probably not much point in starting one now. as you all know it takes a really long time. and personal appearances, one not do some pot casts and send them out to bull clubs and say we are happy to skype with your book club or the book clubs in the area. what i tried to do, my advice to my clients, strengths and what kind of books they have or the strength the publishing are. >> at the 11, how do you help your authors? you get them, agent, shot the book. latoya smith buys the book and what happens along the way?

>> honestly it starts in the very beginning. for me i am character and plot driven so i will normally read a submission before i check out the author's credentials and once i fall in love with the project i will take a look at the author's platform. just as ayesha pande said, you see where their strengths are. some authors agree that facebook and not so great at twitter and buying the book is more the liking the book, it is also as you said, seeing where their strengths are, where we can promote them. can they do publicity, national media or pot cast or things like that or is it a matter of building that? i have a lot of debut authors who don't have a lot of platforms, they build websites but they are readers first so they do have a social media platform. it might be personal but they are following the writers that they like, i tell them okay, go

speak to those people, your author friends who may be published or have an equal following that you have. tell them to talk about your book, rely on your friends and family. it is about word of mouth and so even if you don't think you loving scandal is exciting and number of other people are talking about it and you can build a fan base by talking about that. often times i tell my authors let's build on that first. let's get your social media platform there because is free and a great way to network with people. as we edit your book and get the right cover and set a book felicity campaign, you get yourself out there and network with people because it is about word of mouth and it is about getting other writers and friends and family to help you as well. it takes a support group so the bigger your nest the more

successful. >> paul, when you created classic threats you had one vision in mind and a little bit down the road things shifted and you created a digital part of the business. what did you see in the publishing model that required that you had to shift? >> there is the wrong answer to this. i have gotten a lot out of the responses you guys gave. the things that distinguishes it, some notice this, other people don't, we didn't start as a publishing company, we started as a prison program, coming out of the black panther party and that was to provide and produce books and make books available

as a way of transforming our community, transforming the people who were in jail so they would come out and join the scope in a positive way. we really are not thinking about books in the traditional way. did come to a time where we were publishing books, we realized we were publishing company and after having successes through the 90s we hit a wall like most people in publishing it in the year 90s or the mid 90s and books began to be more computerized particularly in chain stores, books come back in after selling black books through the roof, we began to hit areas where we were not selling books and instead of selling 5,000 books whistling 500 books or unless books. i ended up with a warehouse not

unlike other black publishers, a warehouse full of books. it occurred in that process that a change was necessary. i have been doing work with digital printing books on demand in another capacity. i have been looking at it for some time. in 1995, we acquired our first digital printing engine. the company at that point not only published books, we began producing our books, which actually was a part of the original vision that we would sell books and reduce books. it was at the black writers conference in 1995, 1996, 1996,

that we announced that we had acquired that equipment so it is interesting. we like going around that. when the company grew to producing books and using that equipment, digital equipment. >> in terms of the social media, marketing, websites, we always talk about can the reader find the author? i can the author fine the reader? it works both ways. how does one do that? with all the changes and all the tricks with one platform or another platform, how does that work? to the black books get lost in the shuffle? >> that is a complicated question. extremely difficult. if there is an author that you know or a celebrity author, really easy. if you look for of great

historical novel or a romance book, and do a search, it becomes tough. you come up with a variety of independent websites tailored to that chandra. today what you get when you do a search is basically three or four amazon searches, search amazon pages, two four good reads pages which is basically amazon, wikipedia is usually high up at the top. doesn't matter what the search is. what has happened is a lot of independents sites are being crowded out. unless you know about the sites you wouldn't know to go there to search. part of what i tried to do is help people spread the word about bookstores, websites that are promoting our literature in

particular so one of the things, it has been two years, a site called research. it is the essentially a search engine, it was purely search, no sponsor the adults, no advertising. just information you are looking for. the go to a career search and do something generic, you get results that have been curated, list of sites that have been created. independent newspapers, all of the sites that i found that focus on books by and about black people, all the bookstore websites, that is a the way to learn about books or authors or

writers because what you find from the larger corporate sites typically are the things that would appeal to the broadest audience or the things that are generally perceived as the most profitable, most profitable being the key thing. what i discovered is that isn't the stuff that actually feeds us. it is not the stuff that is going to uplift us so if we are going to be able to share information about things that really enrich us call all of you have to help do that because the large corporations simply will not do it, and they haven't demonstrated a company doing it. one of the things that is leaking--lacking is lately, willingness to promote our stuff. we are losing, we are hemorrhaging platforms. that is a good side and the bad side to the story, actually i

brought a list of bookstores that close not since the start of the web site but since i started keeping track of them and if you do me a favor this is a list of bookstores that have closed. >> of those black bookstores or bookstore is generally? >> independent bookstores across the nation. >> what is the account approximately? >> over 100. >> 300? >> this is how many, this is counting the studio museum bookstore, if we were to look at the number of independent bookstores in this country is less than 50. when we talk about the number of bookstores we are talking about

numbers like 800,000-1. states like alabama doesn't have one. last one closed last year. the cradle of the civil rights movement. i am getting upset just thinking about it and i don't feel this anger anywhere. i sell books online. i do it because of these stores. before i thought about a website i was going there and learning things, learning about third-world press and black classic press and learned about the authors and learning about things that matter. that is one of the things that is changing. when we talk about the black book echoes system we are

talking about family. the bookstore was born out of a project to help people in prison come out and serve the movements in a more meaningful way. i don't sell books just to sell books and make money. it is because what i want to do is share our story, make sure it gets out. ended is not controlled by corporations, by their behavior, that despise us. this is important. social media, that was really a question. when i look at social media and your point about talking about scandal, when you talk about scandal, a lot of people wanting to talk about it but you are getting people who want to talk about scandal. they are not the ones who will turn around and say hey, let me

find a book and read it. readers, real readers, reading literary works, who are trying to learn something, spending a lot of time on social media, and they are just not and when you engage your social media to that extent you are relieved feeding that beast and that beast is a voracious. it looks for our content, looks for us to be there all day sharp, and sharing information and contributing to their wealth because that is what you are doing when you are engaging social media. even when i am complaining about social media crowding out the websites, i am enriching those websites.

i am gone social media. it is almost like the nature of the world we live in. i kind of have to be there by over what y hard to not.

is being shown it hasn't made up for what i lost. >> in terms of books being sold and doctors being discovered. >> it starts with authors being discovered, but what it translates is the book being sold. i might post something. if i get 100 likes, 2% might click. of those 2%, traditionally, 8% of any quick or link to buy, the numbers are really horrendous. a good thing that works is building an audience, it works

really well. i am e-mailing people who read, up and pay for their service. i spoke a lot. >> paul, i know you wanted to tag along to wes troy johnson was saying but it is all connected so jump in. >> truth carries us in a different direction. a wonderfully different direction. i just want to second, sitting back learning from floor, he is such a tremendous resources, and what he does is tremendous, so if you haven't visited the site please visit the site. don't worry about social me and stuff like that. the thing is, you are

experiencing your lessons, really shaping my thoughts even as i sit here. my response was to an earlier question and i am hearing this as i go. linda's earlier question, approaching our readers. the company is a little different, publishing books because we are publishing books that are largely out of print books, we are not guided in that process by how many people we were going to reach when the book comes out. is not a driving force for determining how many books we are going to do. is not a driving force in terms of the production like some publishers would be bound by the production. we are doing a book, initially that book would be out this month probably by the time we

finish it. we will print it, initially printing will be about 150 copies or something like that, to go into those markets that we already have an affinity to. is not like we are reaching to promote, you have to remember these are books we are republishing, not new books coming out. so we don't have that like latoya smith would have with new writers. our task is to reestablish the book and the market place. what that means is introducing the book and building the book slowly in the marketplace so that people know that the book is out. after the book is out we look at a curve on books, we are looking at them starting slow and building and building and eventually reaching into booksellers that reach

additional bookstores that are coming out. shay ryan number of booksellers out there. we going to the black book market first and with this book it will go to our larger distributor which is perseus books. it will take that market as it builds. i want to make that as a point of distinction. >> this whole process of agenting and editorial, it is clear and mysterious to a lot of people because they are constantly trying if you self published you definitely need an editor but if you are in a publishing house he needs an editor as well. what is the role of a literary agent and what is the role of an editor? it is basic but always good to keep people informed. >> you mean in terms of -- >> from the beginning. i don't want you starting with what your role is, how you make the determination, what projects that bcu because not all agents

work with all authors and titles. >> just like the publishing industry has been in flux enormously, the role of the agent has also shifted aloft ld we were the first filter, the first person another comes to, we have to determine the sale ability and marketability of the book, not only the first book but in my case because i don't look for projects, particular project, i look for clients with whom i can stay for the duration of a career. i look for someone who i feel has potential to grow so the first book might be wonderful and i fall in love with their book but i also know they have greater talent yet to come and because my job is to extricate that talent. because i was an editor for 15

years i spent a lot of time editing. let me back up from that. we have to make that determination in fiction and nonfiction, i look at not only the quality of the riding but i try to look at it through a publisher's lens and ask who is the audience for this and what is the hook, what are the selling points? how would i be able to convince an editor to go and fight for this book and ask their boss to put down $20,000 or $60,000 or $200,000 for this book? that already is a very high barrier to overcome and as i see the potential is there i might spend six months to in some cases two years actually shaping, preparing, editing through numerous drafts before i send this out on submission to

wonderful editors like latoya smith to give the best possible chance of succeeding and so while working editorially, also try to work with them about lifting their platform as we talked about not only social media but thinking about placing op-eds for writing huffington post blogs, or other ways of making themselves known. if there literary fiction authors, publishing in literary journals, if they are nonfiction authors, writing journalist pieces, absolutely amazing thing, i do believe his platform is going to help the great deal in marketing his next book. he started a blog, had such a unique voice and the unique way

of thinking cabal about the world thatabout about the world that it quickly took off. social media can count for a lot but he worked with what his strengths were. so that is what i do. >> latoya smith. >> oh boy. my job is, while. i basically work with every single department so i read the submission, fall in love with it, okay, that is only probably a third of the actual job because once i read it and as i am reading and okay, who is the audience? how can i position this? what format is that? are dumber? trade paperback? the way i make those decisions is i have to look at the market

as a whole. and what general fiction writer, and the editorial board, why we should pay you to sell your book. it is dollars and cents. if we can sell your book, we will pay you for it. doesn't matter the contents, if there's an audience and we can show there's prove this book will sell x amount of copies that makes it, sometimes a writer can write something so unique there is nothing like it and the publisher takes a chance on it. usually it comes down to the numbers. when i share a submission i love with my editorial board i have to have in my head this book is like this, that and a third. once i get the editorial board

to read it again, we have of profit in loss statement. and the price point, mass market, digital, and some authors all that in print, not so much in the, some vice versa. we have to put those numbers in and that profit and loss statement will kick out how much it will cost to produce the book. and how much they will make off of it. and they will pay this amount, and how many books we going to acquire so that i will talk to lenovo or someone else for marketing person. i love this book, where do you

think we can -- it is a great book and going to be published, in that case i would publish everybody, almost everybody. and as an editor, and they don't care how good it is. how can we make this big? how can we make this money? it will be great if you come with a platform, it is great -- it is so much that goes into it and once it is acquired, that is a whole other ballparks so me as the editor, i am your spokesperson, you're in houseperson, i will fight, i will talk tomorrow and to make sure our marketing people are advertising in the right place. doesn't make sense to take $25,000 worth of subway ads. if you market is not on a subway that is to. maybe you should advertise on facebook, advertise on goodreads

please depends where your audience is and where we think they are. as an editor most people think i copyedit. i do some line editing where i am fixing grammar but that leads to copy editor. for me i want to make sure your story is as strong as it can be. that is your characters, your plot, your language, is it realistic? is a cliche? people don't speak that way. even if it is fiction we want to make sure people can get sucked into it and believe it for 300 pages so that is my job as an editor. i am your partner, your advocate, i am shaking your story, i am shaping your career, i'm helping my companies your brand and believe in your brenda and sell your book to the best of our capability. >> the thought process with different formats, a lot of times i see when books come out in print, and digital at the same time, it looks like a really good idea. what is the thought process

behind that? when you have a potential client, ayesha pande, they talk about digital rights. we have all been in publishing long enough where we didn't talk about digital rights, remember? that is a hole big part of it. palace that determination made? that it will be both at the same time or in months or two after? what is the thought process? >> i don't make that determination. the publisher makes that determination. they are pretty much unless i have john grisham or stephen king, i don't even ever get to sell rights that don't also include the digital rights. the publisher absolutely insists on taking those digital rights. the only time when that is different is if the author is already huge success in the digital realm. if they achieved best-sellerdom

on amazon or wherever, you can leverage that and go to the publisher and say would you like to talk about distributing the print books for my client and he retains his rights because he has shown you that he is very successful in reaching his audience directly and it is that space right now for editors, aspiring authors that presents all kinds of opportunities. your own work. and to also go to the audience directly. this of stocks in publishing, that is the good part, if they know how to work and leverage

those opportunities because then they can cut out the middleman, they can cut out me, they can cut out latoya smith, go directly to the audience if they know how to find them. >> i do want to say this is really interesting because in our case, we will do 150 copies, we looking for that, the book has already been sent to digital and digital will go out immediately. we are not competing. we have to do all we can to build that art and that digital book is going to help build that are for us. it will probably have more success out of the country which is also our market and our job is bringing our job, my passion really is bringing old books back into print. that is what we do end in that sense literally all of our titles are in the e-book version

and we have begun to see very good returns coming off of those books. this is something that has to do with rights also. e-book rights are split with our authors like we do a 50/50 split with our authors because we believe the money as much as possible should go to those authors and it has been very successful and very well received by authors we worked with to this point. >> online you will get free books, it is free, forget about it. i think there is something to this hole offer it for nothing and get these folks coming back for more. the issue i thought would free books was the book cover the ugly, whether it is free or not,

people don't want to bother that the campaign is poorly executed so i don't care if it is free but there are certain times when that actually takes off. what do you think, how does that play in the marketplace? is it helpful or not? >> it could be helpful to some authors, from a bookseller's perspective, it is not the greatest news in the world because as e-books have become more popular they cost less and commissions for selling them are less so that would have made a few bucks on a hardcover book and if it is free i make nothing. there's not incentive on my part to sell a free e-book but i can also say 40% of the e-books that, quote, sold are free.

40% of what moves on my web site generates no commissions. for some others i have been able to develop an audience because people can be enticed for free, $0.99 which is essentially free. you download a book and sent it a little lower but if you have to read it and you like it, that can work. it is a competitive environment and there are a lot of people doing it and that is the same so now as a writer or an author you feel pressured to give away what you have done because so many others are doing and it is a competitive environment to give yourself away. >> can i have a show of hands? i want to gauge the time, i want

you to add these 95 years people land here. can i see? all right. let's start the questions and while you are lining up over here or wherever i have a question or statement for the panelists. i would like each of you to give me five words on what you think the states of publishing is going to be as we move forward? i know it is tough. you work with books. >> opportunity, opportunity, opportunity, and opportunity. that is all i see. i see the future as promising. >> one of the best

characteristics is internal optimist. i will certainly see opportunity that temper that with challenges and temper that with the next word. that was mentioned quite a few times. a bookseller operates out of love. you're not going to be rich selling books. >> i'm going to open that up. all of us in this industry operates out of love, straighten out. >> challenges and love. >> i work with digital, if you read you will read. in the very beginning. that is 17 words. i have to explain in 5 words. if you read you read.

you will find the format. and that is fun. >> i will lead two more. read more. >> there you go. >> ayesha pande. >> i would say independents, the independent bookseller, vertical, specialization, innovation and creativity. >> i want to go back because it is on my mind, determining foremast. it is all about the market. if you write a nonfiction that generally your comparison titles are in hard cover, the publisher will do hard cover. the way we determine the first

for genre fiction like romance a lot of times the readers want their stuff right now and we don't have time to put it in print so we do the e-book first as we produce print and that is how we determine if the e should come first but normally they are simultaneous. >> we have questions, not talking, right? whoever doesn't have the queue there is the seat. first question. >> i am a blocker, my blog has taken off, my narrative nonfiction experiences about my day to day being 26 years old, i am getting a huge crowd, 30,000 a month. i want to know how someone, older, more mature. how does someone my age catch a literary agent or editor's i?

lot of books are no longer a thing but how do i use my platform i have now to pitch myself to ayesha pande or latoya smith? >> we actually have published several blocker to book people. it boils down to the editor and/or agents. i have seen quite a few loggers, let's say your thing is relationship advice and you give a ton of relationship advice, 40,000 shares, your book should be a relationship advice book. your editor would work to develop the kind of idea and the hope is that we can reach 30,000 of your 50,000 or 10,000 of your 30,000 fans or if you maybe you can create a fictional account of some of the stuff you talk

about, the idea or the things you have gotten big responses on if you post a certain topic and get huge responses maybe there is a fictional novel in there that may not -- may be based on life events because fiction is a fictionalized tale of what you experience. it just depends on again who discovers you. if you start writing fiction pieces you might test the eye of an editor or agent and it could be a development between you and either your agent or editor to figure out what the right book would be for you. >> thank you. >> i have a question about international markets. in films the word is black films don't do well abroad. i would like what film makers are pressing to change about that idea in the industry. i would like to know what is the equivalent in publishing? my only experience meeting with a major corporate publisher came when the new york times in a

front-page article about my research and the agents picked me up, just sold for a million dollars. we met with simon and schuster and the discussion was like life changing because i went in thinking my readership is black readers. ..

>> we are trying to reach to many people and thank you. >> greetings. my question is directed toward the ladies because the gentleman have already embraced the afrocentric writers. and i want to know as a writer, what advice do you have for someone who is not famous or

mainstream and etc., based on the information that you have just offered in respect to the statement that you have to make in the pitch the you have to make to ensure that there are a certain number of readers. what about someone like myself and how can we expect possibilities being published by an agency such as the one you have? >> i am always positive. i know that my house doesn't necessarily specialize in that subject matter or book. so i will be honest and say that this is not necessarily right for my house, but that doesn't mean that it's not right for a different house for a different imprint or a smaller press. there have been times when i read something and i know that it may not be what grand central does. you can be more literary and there is a topic, if you like me can publish it well come i will

share with other editors that i know that might be of a different house or i will try to recommend someone else for the person to be published. i think at the end of the day it should be more a ballot who is going to do the best for this project. and i have seen books do phenomenally well that are published by smaller press is just because they were really dedicated and they knew where the market was in the target audience was and so they did it right and if you get published and they are not quite sure where you're leadership your leadership is, they can kill your career. so it's not always, you know, oh, i have to be published by a major network. you can make it by being published by smaller publisher that knows how to publish a book well. so i would say it's really just the same work, finding your market, finding your agent that will be the best work for your product and go from there. >> thank you. i was actually interested in your particular agency.

>> okay. >> and what you presented based on the audience. >> what's up afterwards. >> okay. no problem. >> so let's first talk about how social media now can influence people to buy a product or read your product while at the same time diminishing all the hard work over the years. i believe it's more of a double standard. while it's true that sometimes social media promote certain products, including diminishing hard work come at the same time it includes those people who are interested in becoming writers and artists than the exception. my question is, throughout the

years, what was the source of your motivation that inspired to be the writers and authors of today? sumac that is a good question. >> and you can feel free to answer. >> okay. for me, i always loved reading even as a kid. my mom was huge and buying books versus toys. she was really big on books. [laughter] i love my mama. so it started with disney and little books with a cassette tapes and the audio and scholastic. so when i got the opportunity to work with terry williams, that was just like oh, my goodness, because i was a reader. amount was trying to read, i do

law. a i loved books, but i didn't give a second thought always where they came from. you always think about tv and music. and so you don't always think about book publishing is a job. so then i worked with terry, and then i thought, i was able to be passionate about it. i was always passionate about reading and that is where it came from and i just kept going with it. [inaudible question] >> that's a good question. >> i'm sorry, initial motivation >> [inaudible] >> i came out of the black power movement. my initial motivation was to use books as bullets. you see, to set my people free.

and that was my initial motivation. i wasn't really concerned about publishing. i was concerned about taking the words that the elders have left for us. and i am still very concerned and very passionate and in this is a force of liberation for us all. >> i can tell you from my experience, the reason i do this is because the people like paul, he may not know this, but i started my website as an experiment. i wanted to -- i was building websites for other companies.

and this was in the mid-90s when most people didn't have a computer let alone access. and then one day i wanted to build -- one of my clients complained that they weren't making any money from their website. i decided to build a website to make some money. and that was all at once. and so i built a website to sell books and it was a commodity and barnes & noble have an affiliate program at the time, so i built this website. i read and i went to school but i read for information purposes and never for pleasure. but as soon as i put this website together i met people like paul like a lot of the other writers out here. people like linda, you know, people in linda cofounded the harlem book fair. that's an institution that survives today. the people that i have

encountered are conscious and interesting and they told wonderful stories. i have learned a lot. i used to say that i was my best client because while i was reading and cheering excitedly information with others, i was learning as well and that is my motivation is to share all of this stuff that we have and while i talk about all of the challenges that we have, you know, the people who run, the people that run the center and make this possible, you know, you're not going to find a better caliber people. even the folks that are recording this, c-span and others, they are doing us such a service. booktv is a tremendous service. and i'm working with people who have produced programs called the book program and these are

people who have stood in constantly struggled to do what we all do in some respects and that is a powerful motivator. and you know, i have made a lot of money working in corporate america, but i was never as passionate about doing what i do now is difficult as it is than anything in my will live, en masse, like my family and children. this is important work. and your attendance here is a testament to that. each and every one of you is sitting here and they are extremely important and that is a great question and i had to think about myself so he came out of it consciously and i had to learn. and i'm still learning. >> thank you.

i joined publishing for the usual reasons, oh, i love books and i'm so excited about reading and working with folks but when i joined the crown publishers, the editor i replaced was an african-american editor and she had left and i took over her list. and it was -- it was the beginning of a very steep learning curve for me, when i realized that -- and i mean, this was in the '90s and the heyday in retrospect, i realize it was the heyday of lots of wonderful african-american publishing happening and we have gone through some kind of dark places as far as that is concerned because not even a fraction of those kinds of numbers of books are being published now.

one of the things that i discovered was only certain kinds of books were being published by black authors and hardly any other books by people of color were being published and there were no people of color in publishing at all except a small handful of dedicated pioneers kind of laboring away and were consequently been put in the position of having to explain and educate because there were so many people who just misunderstood or didn't get it or didn't understand. and so for me that was the beginning of my path that i'm still on today where i feel even as an agent that bringing writers of color, bringing writers from other countries, many national writers, trying to shape them in such a way that their voices can be heard and

that is what keeps me going every single day. >> thank you all for answering my question. and i wish you the best of luck to continue spreading the message and the knowledge that each of you have experienced and gained towards the next generation in that generation can continue so after that. >> thank you. >> all of this generation. so i am all the way from california. >> while. >> thank you, sister. [applause] >> it is because of doctor green. i am just so impressed. but today it's really unique because, and i am embarrassed to even say that i taught english for 35 years and this was not aware -- this is embarrassing. but that is why you have places like this. right?

>> absolutely. >> you can go away empowered. but choi, when you talk about the message of the black bookstores left in the country, that really struck a chord with me. and i'm asking you, does that have anything to do with like say, california, barnes & noble, borders, the those bookstores, there are very few left in the silicon valley area, very few left of those bookstores. so i'm wondering if that trend is -- you know, we get pneumonia or something or a cold, i'm wondering if that is symptomatic of just the industry as a whole. >> yes, it is a function of a lot of things. i think in our community, however, it is an issue of economics and if you read the wider media, you would think things are a lot rosier than they actually are.

we are in a depression, if you know what i mean, there are people who are struggling and working hard not making a lot of money, it's not, you know, and i think part of the challenge that bookstores have is just the economics. we are struggling right now. and there's also the issue of literacy and as an educator you may have a better sense of this. i teach a ged class, for example, and what i have seen is almost criminal in what is happening in our education assistance and we have another thing that i'm passionate about as well as his education and we are creating a variety of literacy and it's not appreciated.

including what is valued and what we look for in terms of success, it is the ability to generate a large number of followers fired due to being

it is not just my site, but sites are losing theirs and they are dying and they are not being updated because we are not valuing them. we are not supporting him. i could go on all day about what we need to do and i think that we need to spend less time on these sites and more time on mars uplifting those sites and

then we can bring in more important information. so i'm taking notes and i'm going to share that information next week and there will be people who discover it who were unaware of it and that is how information is spread. that doesn't happen as social media. if you have a boatload of money, absolutely. but if you are an obscure or unknown author, you have a challenge ahead of you and it wasn't always like this. >> there is a black education network that we are starting nationally and we are trying to bring quality back to our schools. >> thank you for sharing that information. >> i just had a quick note and i think it is important. we have been publishing for years before that and the thing

about the bookstores but choi pointed out, we don't want to lose track of this. one of the earliest black bookstores in the country, most of those bookstores, almost all of them, and i know that we know 90% of them, he or she knows many of them. but almost all of the booksellers began from passion. and they didn't begin because they were business people. they didn't begin because of this or a business program, but most of the people didn't begin with business plans or financing that we began out of passion and most of those things are about the retail model and what happens more interestingly on the one hand, but what are we doing? what are we doing to communicate models for getting books out.

and we have this opportunity. >> we have a lot of power collectively and i am a community person. so i am doing work and this includes work in baltimore and this is why this conference is really important to us. and that is real. >> hello, i am a member of the

louis review is a writers workshop. [applause] >> thank you for this question. i found out that the two big publishing houses have the biggest sellers. >> i want to take this one. i work a lot with authors have made them so successful.

and they know that they have to pay with the publishing houses and so a lot of them are able to build a platform on social media and self publish. a lot of them are going back to the publishing houses and like we can make this so you are your biggest advocate. so you can watch list everyday to make sure that you are reaching as many people as you can reach.

and some of these authors actually want to focus on branding and writing and they don't want to focus on all the mechanics that it takes to put out a book. and some people do try to get it and it doesn't always work out in the self publish. but normally that is my advice. i say if you can get an agent or get it published, i say do it. but if it doesn't work out and you want to put it out there, just know that it is a lot of work. >> i would like to add something to that as well. so when urban fiction became popular, also know that a lot of my clients are self published

authors. >> and so then we have this working to our advantage. but we can generally assume that is the book went through the entire process, like latoya and companies like her put a book through and there is going to be a decent product. but self published books they run the gamut. and this includes how the physical product would look like in the end and the spectacular

and it's not the best book that makes it but it is the best marketed book particularly in a self published arena. so if you have someone who is hungry and aggressive and willing to stand out in front of a bookstore or when they are selling books, they are out there day after day after day grinding the pavement, it's almost hard to hold that back. so it's interesting to see that the most supportive people were formally incarcerated people. and she was locked up in was selling books like crazy. but when she came out, she buy ads to this day and when you

look at this, you don't see that as much from the authors who are in-house. this is a great example of someone who is not typical. it supports booksellers and goes out of her way to support. and there are a few others that i can mention in every book she got that comes out, she buys. the last book that came out, that type of support is critical before a self published author you are either a genius at doing all the stuff, marketing that is important, meaning universal people are out there and how many people and the time and

energy, you really have to have all of them. but if you don't have all of it, you're going to be dead in the water. i don't care how good your book is. >> thank you. i would say marketing first. and i have to get that and because i know she probably won't do that. >> actually she is. [laughter] and i have the banker. and it wasn't a question that i was coming up with. and we did say something that was very informative to those of

us who either have both published or are thinking about it. my question to you was that many of us here are would-be authors, will be authors, and we don't know you guys. many of us will send out our manuscripts to people who will reject them without reading them because they are too busy. i know that i had that experience. so how do authors note to get in touch with all of you or people like you. and they say for the 18th

century, it they are really out there selling and this includes publisher recommendations and technically we are not allowed to give them. so what i normally say is whatever books you like to read or whatever books that you feel like represent the kind of book that you are writing, and most publishers have editorial brochures when they tell you is they are and what they are acquiring and it's all about the workshops and they oftentimes have editors and agents who were there representing the companies, so taking a peek at

is who and where they are and that is also helpful. and i think it just boils down to knowing your market as well even as a writer. you know, again, you can write a great book, but you have to know who your audience is and who you are trying to reach and you yourself as an author. even without a publisher, you have to know how to reach those people who are going to the park's and the shows and selling those books and that's what people are doing with and without publishers. the guy never stops. and it's really just a matter of checking out the publishers and you can do a google search modes of them will pop up. amazon, some of these that will write similar subject matters and things like that and really just looking at the front matter of the website. they will usually tell you where your editors or agents are. >> the last question? >> hello, i'm julia. i am an author of a coffee table