about them. so the investment would be a lot smaller than most people think. the katy line must he put that rocket of supplies of to the station for about 10% of one and shuttle mission. so with space technology more economically if we focus to take the problems to do this without investing with the entire gdp. >>host: how long would it take spacecraft with today's technology to get to mars and come back? twenty years? >>guest: no.

you could do the whole mission in it is three years if you land on the planet and you use the planetary a mechanics' properly you could do it efficiently, explore the planet, you could be to people there this is a round trip mission. there is some interest in a mission to do the most you could put to instruments on demos but the problem with mars right now is once you lay and you have to take off again for you need the infrastructure on the planet. it has almost 40 percent of earth's gravity. have to have life-support established before you get

there than infrastructure to get off the planet if you want to leave. jim lovell and others have proposed into a one-way missions sent to the older infrastructure and we will stay in it you can send younger people better. he only says that in half in jest but there has been some interest in though one-way mission that means once you get there you don't have to worry about to have of way to get back, again. >>host: teeeighteen would you volunteered to be the position? >> i certainly would. my wife might not like that so much or my kids but i would love to do that. maybe she would come. that would be great. but there is a lot of

interest in admires. it has the great excitement still with those that grew up with the space program. it is a whole planet of history and it is just waiting for us to explore. >>host: "mankind beyond earth" is the name of the book. the history, science, and future of space exploration"

[applause]

♪ ♪ ♪ has. >> batson was nice. says almost enough to make you want to run for office. [laughter] >> almost. we are delighted to be back here tonight we have the opportunity to visit the nixon library on a number of locations in to serve the nixon administration during

the first term and i am always pleased to come back to visit this part of the world to be reminded of the important time in our history. but i was happy to be a part of the administration. we should explain why we are here together. i was born in lincoln nebraska and she was born in casper wyoming. 1954 when i was 13 years old my dad moved the family to caspar wyoming. he had a choice between there or montana. we grew up together and i took her out when she was 16 and we will celebrate our 50th wedding anniversary. [applause] butted dad picked montana

instead of wyoming of course, i never would have mary lynn she would have married someone else and she said then he would have been vice president of the united states. [laughter] [applause] >> i don't recall that was one of the jokes. >> now i am freelancing. we are here to talk specifically about a magnificent book she has written about james madison with great reviews and we are on the book to our high has been to the nixon even before when i had other books to publish. but now it is an opportunity for her to present her as. it is superb about the nation's fourth president

and the plan is devil ask her questions and she will respond at the end of the period we will open to questions from the audience. but why madison? >> before you get there i want to say i am so grateful for dick to join me on this book tour. i am referring to him as my arm candy. [laughter] i was interested in madison for a long time i had that privilege to serve on the bicentennial commission in 1987 and then they first begin to understand how significant his accomplishments were but yet how the recognized he was for what he has accomplished in his political life but a few years ago i finally became serious and it is a

labor of love. i hope you will enjoy the book as much as i enjoyed writing and. he was the architect of the constitution, bill of rights the establishment of the first government under the constitution and under the first or and he performs if not magnificently in all those jobs at least very well. and john adams who is a sour figured on prone to taking compliments easily he wrote the james madison administration had covered itself with more glory than any predecessors. that is the great compliment.

and it has been so much fun. five years does not sound like fun but discovering things to put it into a form that i hope would reach a ride -- a wide audience. but to reconfigure his life. >> was the most important contribution? >> if you had to pick just one? >> it would have to be the constitution. i think he was a genius because the kind of genius he had with conventional thinking everyone was thinking one way of madison did not accept it. he did that with the case of the constitution with the great republic of what we

are. the conventional wisdom is you could not have a great republic where people voted for representatives it would be to lose over eight long way and the less you had monarchical power he thought the danger of the republic was one faction would dominate and repress everyone else and medicines genius was to see if you had many factions as there would be with a large republics that no single one is to become aggressive. that was the rationale produced in philadelphia. it is genius to see through what everybody else believed

to transform the world to do it. >>host: you talk about the relationship with the other founders like george washington. >>guest: we think of the founders sitting around having a polite conversation having a the greater good at all times in mind. it is much more interesting fact people firmly believed in their point of view and willing to fight to see it succeed. in the beginning madison was a chief lieutenant the first government under the constitution washington and had a right to is inaugural address that produced a 72 page disaster. so washington wrote to madison so please come to mount vernon to help so

mount vernon -- so he did and he wrote the inaugural address with a very good job. after he delivered the address and then to write the congress says response. [laughter] he wrote the response in washington by this time thought madison was so good he asked him to write to the reply back. [laughter] >> it is harder to lamented how his voice was at the wing off of every small. there has not been a time in history when one man was so influential. >> if you talk about the constitutional convention there were battles over various provisions. we ended up with the article

will mac 12, three, in it took a long time to put it all together the kid do talk about the most specific compromise that they argued about mac it is what we learned in history about the big states and the small states and of course, they wanted the states to be represented proportionally. the small states wanted to be represented and weighed no the compromise they got a representative stays and proportionately in the house. madison was appalled he thought it should be proportional representation across the board. he went to to the constitutional convention he would call them that evil states because they were so

irresponsible because of religious freedom turning out monday especially rhode island. it was called rogue island. [laughter] but then it was passing laws that made it necessary for merchants to accept that depreciated money. so maybe you were paid off 1 penny on the dollar. invest dates were taxing one another. in said they thought it needed to be controlled when it turned out what the compromise was to have the states represented done it to a couple of days to get around to except that senate maybe that is what made him

think he needed a vice president. >>guest: the e eternal question. [laughter] it had to do with the electoral college every select your had to vote monday cannot agree on anything else the alternate at that point is let congress and just imagine if congress was choosing you would not have had a ronald reagan. >> made not a nixon either but plenty of speakers of a house. the electoral college everybody gets to votes. the big states and the small states they are worried they'll always elect a president. so to assuage their concern the deal was made you could only cast one vote from

someone from your own state the other had to be from another state. but then they started to if you want to the one vote said do is throw away the second boat expended on jim who does not have a chance so to prevent that they invented the vice presidency. the ada is the person with the second highest number would become vice president. that seemed like a good idea but then they would worry what will they do? [laughter] so they decided they will make him president of the senate.

with the vice president part of the legislative branch to the separation of powers and randolph of virginia coming to delegates i'm sorry mason of virginia specifically cited as reasons they would not sign a the constitution they called it that dangerous office. there you go. [laughter] >>host: during the course of his career to implement the constitution alexander hamilton became an important player in all of that. talk about what led to their

major disagreements and confrontation? >> it is important to understand they were not buddies exactly but colleagues with a little help from john j., the story is if you don't mind i will divert a little bit it was done at such speed and haste. i was explaining to a college audience that what madison to it during one period of time during 40 days was the equivalent of writing a 10 page paper every other day. you could do that. but the papers became a mortal. such a right philosophy or

politics with the effort to convince people to support the constitution at the break net speed the printer was putting the beginning parts into print before they were finished so madison and hamilton respected one another until hamilton became secretary of the treasury under washington and began to make his financial plans clear. madison was troubled from the beginning but eventually when the issue to establishing a national bank came up, he was deeply concerned. he did not think of that -- a bank was up bad idea and he said it was such a good idea at the constitutional convention he proposed giving the congress of power to grant charters is what you needed to start of bank

but that was turned down. congress did not have that power and that was madison's problem. hamilton was running rich shot over what congress had been given. there was no power therefore madison thought you should not establish a bank. he lost the fight but he went on to win the war and established the political party. parties don't have a better reputation and then as they do now. it was against the conventional wisdom that the parties were divisive, and noisy and madison said yes. a government without opposition is little more than a monarchy. he organized the party to

change the way or defeat the way hamilton was trying to carry the government to make it so strong that madison thought that the constitution had not contemplated and he managed to get jeb person elected 1800 and he was small government type of guy. >> one of the most important functions we have seen obviously is the role of commander in chief. you will run the of course, serbia in charge of the military and madison was the first president to ever conduct a war under the constitution. the way that power was vested in the presidency strikes me as a great story that is not how they started out. >>guest: the proposal at the constitutional

convention was about to go through that the congress had the power to make more. and madison, his mind was so quick his intellect instantly grasped the various proposals. and changed the word make to declare congress has the power to declare war. he did this in part because he saw what a mess congress made of things when they were in charge of war. he was a member of the confederation congress where there was no executive and congress would decide. they would write george washington to send them south then there was trouble in the north end send them north.

it was not a way to run the war so madison said congress has the power to declare war but what that did was make the president the commander in chief wants war was declared. >> how did he do? mar john washington burned down the capital or white house? was the good? >>guest: he was patient. [laughter] kind i'd like lincoln he had trouble with general's. in 1812 they served in the revolution. favor getting long in the tooth. they were not as brave may be as they had been in their younger years but one general was to invade canada year detroit became so

alarmed at the rumors that turned out to be true that the british form to us strong alliance that the americans might have to face this that he turned around not only to not invade canada but gave them a choice so that was a problem. not so with admirals'. said navy the british had more than 100 ships but the navy trained all that time to bring new and young bird blood. you cannot just mothball the navy to build it up again. summit capped going and as a result there was a

magnificent disk trees of naval victories. while people were fleeing from allies, and when he was indeed related and to commend the constitution and of course, the uss constitution most famously encountered the british career and lights are out. parts of the reason why is said they were better pelts the its the weight to gain the naval the ironside. but the splendid naval victories toward the end were developing a new class of general's. so when i say madison was patient he suffered through

the first general's i am not sure what choice he had. in to help celebrate the glorious of the navy. he also changed his mind and was not afraid to do that when circumstances changed his long regarded armies and navies as too expensive and as a threat to the republic and by the end of the war of 1812 he was suggesting to congress they expand the navy to provide for a standing army. >>host: how would you evaluate overall? >> was the view by the public or by his command as successful or not very successful? >> his contemporaries he

left the presidency highly regarded by all countrymen. we don't pay much attention to the war of 1812 but it was regarded by americans as evidence we should or could be recognized on the world stage. and and that would be the half to death of british. >>host: one of the most intriguing aspects had to do with medicines health is day -- a major competition. he had an affliction that was with him through his entire life to let yet he could achieve these phenomenal objectives under extraordinary circumstances

and plant of the most important founders can you tell us about that what his problem was and how he dealt with that? >> it was a puzzle in the beginning. people called madison shy but he was reserved and that he was sickly and indeed you could see that from time to airtime budget between the episode of whenever it was was enormously energetic taking thousand tamayo trips by horseback and traveling in days when travel was not easy between now to kill your aunt wherever the capital was. and undertakings their routine trips i have often thought with something that none of the scholars that called him sickly could manage. he was on horseback for 60

hours when washington was burned. so he was sick a lot but he was also quite well. there is no letter he wrote toward the end of his presidency and it has not been published yet but the first to really pay attention is the firestone library and is the draft of the autobiography that he says he was subject to sudden attacks somewhat resemble laying epilepsy to suspend the intellectual function. nobody would take him seriously really i think people just wanted to shy away because it was a difficult topic to figure out help in the 18th century but you can see that period in his life where he had these episodes his

descriptions of his sudden attack fits quite well with what neurologists call complex partial seizures a mild form of epilepsy. he did half the bridal seizures has a child that is often part of a syndrome that involves epileptic seizures as an adult. so he fits right into all of that. he suffered the first at princeton he said he'd do what it was talking about he fell into a period of deep despondency he worried he was not good enough and he

was lucky he found doctors that urged him to exercise. it did not end the seizures but i was remarkably fituw$c[áp once he took his physical health in hand he decided his soul as well and he would not believe what people said about epilepsy. they said if you have that you were full of sin and even possessed by the devil and madison finally decided he did not have to believe that. i think this really said into his strong support for a of religion. people can believe what ever they want into the strong support for freedom of

conscience intellectual freedom nobody should have to believe anything that he or she thinks that idea liberated him because he led the play for freedom of conscience and religious freedom more than any other founder or jefferson. >> would have been to the autobiography? >> he did not finish it. this happens after you have been in political life people say tell days something's about yourself and he appointed so medicine started the autobiography but did that not finish it and decided not to talk about his epilepsy because it was so demonized that he

decided it was more trouble than it was worth to pull that down on his head. >>host: he still had the amazing ability to perform as he did year after year. >> to see can as having complex partial seizures explains how he could be sick sick sick but full of energy in perfectly well in between the energy expended at the constitutional convention was waterfall. >>host: dolly. >>guest: don't you love her? she was beautiful. men stopped in the street of philadelphia when she walked past because she was so beautiful. she had dark hair, blue eyes red lips pale skin, the whole package. [laughter] data said was written when he saw her on the street and asked his good friend aaron

burr. [laughter] they had gone to princeton together before he got into trouble as to introduce her she received than in her parlor where ringlet yellow beads and a red dress and he was a goner. [laughter] they married a few months later and she was a political asset. claims skeptical how important wives are. but i am not sure anymore if this is as important as it may have been that more and more wives have their own careers so they are not essential to getting there has been selected but dolly was. in those-- the congressional caucus is attacked the presidential nominee. no conventions but the caucus on the republican in

federalist side picked the nominee. and dolly made all those members very half feet -- happy. washington was getting started they lived in boarding houses and one senator said we are in a sense of all like bears from talking nothing but politics. place to go but there was one club to specialize in ropedancers. [laughter] i don't know either. [laughter] bb tight rope walkers? that is my story. [laughter] these men were so happy when they opened the doors of the house to welcome them no matter the party to play cards dali to stuff along klay and they did not talk

politics but jefferson is very different he did not like people to talk politics around him. he wanted things smooth sand called said he did not invite both parties to generally one party at the time but they would mixup in they begin to feel not only great respect the also warms because of her entertaining even with contemporary testimony to in not some insignificant measure responsible for getting the nomination 18 '08. >>host: james and dolley were married 42 years. >>guest: not as long as us. [laughter] >>host: in august it will be 50 years but what was that a high point? [applause] i will repeat the question.

what was the high point of those 50 years for you? [laughter] >>guest: not the 42 years with dolly? i knew it was dangerous to have you asked me questions. [laughter] what he finned i can think of, .com puts you in a light that people don't often see you. doors greater. [laughter] doris invader. he is a real romantic. for it if anniversary of our first dates it was 2008 he arranged and a surprise party to celebrate the 50th anniversary of our first date all has-been's try to top that there is very special inviting all

the college friends and he even had the good sense to tell me we were going to the british ambassador's for dinner. you don't want to take somebody to a surprise party if she does not have on and i stress or if her hair is a and rover's. -- rollers. he got me to dress up and told me weeks in advance then they annual gridiron dinner happened. as vice president will lease it at the head table. this particular occasion tele be we're going to the embassy that night i was going to the british ambassador. [laughter] as he put it i had to read him in. he had to tell him the cover story. [laughter] the british ambassador did not say of word.

it was a wonderful night. he had a cake made and had a body sticking out of it but the cake was read and it was a skirt because i war of big red skirt. [applause] are you blushing? >>host: no. just like dolly madison. one more question. then we will open to the audience. this is difficult. what was medicine's greatest disappointment with respect to the constitution in the formative years? >>guest: he was not entirely pleased with the constitution and it was

finished but probably the best human beings could do. but at the end of his life he hated slavery. he wrote a letter as a young man he said everything i can to become independent of slave labor. to kill off his father's plantation to lift the independent life in which he would not be dependent upon that dreadful institution. he tried by he did not have a long time touche tried because he became involved in public life to create the constitution and so forth. he did not succeed. jefferson also hated slavery and he did not succeed either. so i don't think he had such a goal, a firm goal in mind.

but they both died owning slaves. you could see him clinging desperately to the only thing he could think of which was the american colonization society. one of the problems is if you freed slaves they could not stay in virginia. neighboring states passed laws of the freed slaves could not move their. there was the idea to find a place in africa to pay the way for them to go to siberia. -- liberia but slaves thought of united states as their home. those in mont pooley error had been there as long as madison's family. it was mailed from the beginning but they would cling to it not to seek of anything else that could

give them the hope that this awful institution and could be done away with. >>host: just to wrap up, say a word about madison if he were here tonight. would he think we had been true to the basic principles embodied of his work? >>guest: i think he would be appalled that the size and scope of the federal government and think we've moved far away with the limited powers given by the constitution to the federal government. he may be somewhat gratified to see a the way in which the constitution that does prove itself relevant time and again. earlier i was telling a story that just occurred to me that the supreme court is considering a case that involves whether the police

should have the authority to search your cellphone if they stop you for a traffic violation. to instances this happened and they argued before the supreme court. it is interesting people will say that is wrong polar that's right. maybe he was a terrorist. of what is interesting and what i try to emphasize that is not how to decide things how you feel or if you think that is right or wrong return to uhde constitution. the supreme court justices will go back to a constitution and form to so long before there were cars or sell phones but the justices will have to go back to the fourth amendment which madison wrote that talks about citizens not subject to a reasonable

search and seizure. so he would be gratified that the constitution still lives with the enormous effort to ignore it. . .

if you were alive today he wouldn't be the fellow that elbowed everybody else out of the way to get to the tv cameras. so i don't think that all of his deeds in the earlier public were fully appreciated by his fellow citizens. certainly by the time his presidency was over he was deeply appreciated. his contemporaries were most enthusiastic about his job as commander-in-chief. i do think that has been -- good question. >> from corona high school. corona del mar a high school. >> what is madison's most significant domestic precedent? >> i'm sorry? his most significant achievement may be. well the constitution. what we had was a country that was growing increasingly unstable during the articles of the confederation and what

madison did with the constitution and this idea that you know faction would be put against faction and ambition against ambition. this creates a stable environments. alexander hamilton is often credited for the economy that we have today for the vital economy that the united states has been madison's role in giving businessmen and the rest of us a stable environment in which to live was a major contribution. >> was precedence did james madison sets during his presidency? >> what presidents? well i think he set an important precedent really important one as commander-in-chief. there was a seditious movement going on. in the northeast they particularly didn't like the war new england and some in new york they hated the war because it

was very damaging to that part of the country economically. there was so much anger about the war that there was talk of secession and even some organization to secession. there was an even an effort to strangle loans for the war by going after the people the big bankers of the northeast and commencing them not to fund the war. so i think when madison refused to put down that kind of protest it was free speech. you're welcome to stand up and say whatever you want and you are not going to be oppressed. when madison let free speech continue even though in my opinion a lot of it was seditious i think he set a very important precedent. it was certainly one that his countrymen appreciated. he knew that for the republic you didn't want to suppress those rights that the republic

had been created in part to protect. so that's it. >> back with court of beller high school. which president the last century would you best equate to james madison? [laughter] >> a new question. >> you know it is a good question but i find myself as an historian thinking that you have to take the founders and abraham lincoln and put them in an entirely different category. not because they were different people but because the challenges they faced were so enormous. it's hard to think of somebody like franklin pierce. maybe you could include franklin roosevelt and their too. you look at presidents who faced existential challenges.

if what they were doing didn't work out they would go to the republic. the founders face that existential challenge and i think it ingrained themselves in our national story because of their overcoming the challenges they face. lincoln faced that and i think you could say franklin roosevelt did too. so i guessed the last century being the 20th century may be roosevelt in terms of the challenges that he faced and overcame. >> from casper wyoming. >> oh wow that's my home. >> heading back there tomorrow. jan gray. lynne about madison's height he was only 5 feet or inches. he was a short as president and i want to know when your research did you find that he had any troubles because of that and especially with regard to his relationships with women? as you know he didn't get married until he was a lot older

and dolly was 17 years younger than he was. mr. vice president were to ask you about bald presidents. [laughter] eisenhower in the last year's -- all the president and i was wondering if you think there's going to be anymore. your yourself is a partially bald vice president. >> if i may go first. >> please. [laughter] >> i have always believed in the principle of my good friend al simpson. we all know him from the senate. i'll used to say we all have only so many hormones and if you want to waste yours growing hair that's okay by me. [applause]

>> on young lady from redlands california. >> hi. you had mentioned how important it was to madison the freedom of conscience so i'm wondering how you feel about the fact that the whistleblower who exposed the torture program is the only one currently in prison for it. >> excuse me. please finish. well i mean i think there is and the supreme court has wrestled with this too. you are welcome to believe anything you want to. you are welcome to say almost anything but what you can't do is violate national security ordinances that would endanger the country. edward snowden is the case in point. i think he is a traitor and i feel it's so -- it does not bode well for our society that he is being ballori's for having betrayed his country. [applause]

[inaudible] >> i'm sorry. you need a microphone. >> maybe this is off point. [applause] >> dr. frank. >> i respect your right to speak your mind but i also reserve the right for myself and not to answer your question. [applause] >> dr. frank kannon in the back of the room here. >> you spend five years living with in addition to the vice president living with james madison. >> the old --

the other 45 to matt. >> can you talk about writing a book like this and where the papers and where did you visit madison descendents and if you could ask james madison today one question that emerge from your research what would that question be? >> that last one is a puzzler. i'll have to think about that one while i talk. the madison papers are in different places. you have to travel a little bit. you have to go to princeton for example because there are public papers there. there are unpublished papers about madison's family and the presbyterian historical society. 30 volumes of madison's papers are on line. they have been digitized and have done a wonderful job with digitizing. dolly's papers as well. it's been done by the university of virginia. think of that. research is so much easier now than it has been before.

i was chairman of the national endowment for the humanities for a time and i used to be appalled that some of the things that we funded. if they were to increase the endowment budget so they could make the funding of the founder's papers digitizing them so citizens can have ready access i think that would be a good expenditure. you know frank i can't give you a serious answer. i have to think about what i would ask madison somite unserious answer is i would say how tall were you? [laughter] this has been disputed. someone said 5 feet 4 inches and his favorite aides said 5 feet 6 inches. there's a condition about whether the aid was trying to be flattering. i'm 5 feet tile and i think 5 feet 4 inches would have been just fine. [applause] >> young man who studied in singapore and as a student at pepperdine university. >> my name is jacob young.

pertaining to james madison's life is their particular piece that maybe the history books are missing that you think there's not enough information on or you'd be interested in learning more about? >> there were two things that really stuck out to me as i went through, personal things. this whole idea that he was shy is a 20th century invention. his contemporaries said nothing about that. they noted that he was a politician who had learned the. of not speaking before you needed to of being respectful to your elders when you were a very young politician of not speaking carelessly. madison spent a great deal of his life cleaning up after jefferson who was prone to speaking carelessly. so the fact that he wasn't shy. i spent a lot of time showing in the book that in fact he wasn't and then the sickly thing was important too to just get rid of this myth that he was so

burdened by his health at all times that he could barely get out of bed. you just can't see this vital politician is a man who was that way. i think the idea of him being shy and we has damaged his reputation and i hope my book will do something to restore it. >> a the gentleman from orange california with a quickie. >> mr. vice president where did you guys go on your first date? [laughter] >> oh well. [laughter] we went to a formal thrown by one of the high school girls social clubs. we went with some good friends so we double dated. lynne did wear an amazing formal gown and afterwards we stopped at what and casper is referred to as city hill.

>> oh stop now. [laughter] >> eight gets better. we hadn't been there very long when we discovered that some friends of ours including i think somebody who dated lin before i did have snuck up and let the air out of the tires of our car so we spend a lot of time creeping back down to the filling station so we could get air in the tires and by then of course we were in danger of violating lynne's curfew. >> we did violate it. >> so i was very concerned at that point that we had violated the curfew first-aid and i knew i would be in trouble somebody. the first thing -- the greatest thing about it in retrospect was that lynne's mother was a secretary to the police chief. we didn't make a move that night that hadn't been reported to her at home.

[laughter] >> one last question from a student from chapman university. >> can you share some of the most influential authors that were significant in james matt matt -- james madison's writings and opinions? >> i'm sorry. >> could you share some of what you think would be the most influential works are authors to help medicine and shape his opinions and beliefs in writing his paper's? >> he had a classical education and in the run-up to the constitutional convention he undertook a study project of years reading classical accounts of previous attempts establishing a republic. he saw where they had gone astray and that helps inform his proposals at the constitutional convention so classical sources were important to him. for practical sources were important as well. he not only wrote you know what

had happened to past republics. he wrote what was wrong with the current one and that he had learned from serving in state government, serving in the continental congress. it's a nice pairing. he not only undertook this philosophical exploration, he undertook an understanding of the art of politics. he was a genius at oath and so his reading was part of that. reading sources like montesquieu but also his practical experience was crucial to his successes. >> ladies and gentlemen let's thank the cheney's for this great presentation. [applause] i want to thank them. [applause]