understanding and forgiveness because we are honest with one another. but a come back to the motivation. we want you to come home see would be proud of us, that we've done our best and for 19% of the cases there with a few outliers. it is difficult time served with extraordinary man. many of them cottonmouth. i continue to march. i am most fortunate. and make it takes for that her teammate. >> does it make you ought all a comfortable that someone like me would hold you in higher esteem because he survived what he did?

>> yeah, i don't like that term here ropy news. >> i didn't go that far. >> u.s. civilian introduction this that his nakedness comments. i've been it. i've stood in the shadow of some. at the medal of honor cars come that there is her hero lives. we use hero so much that it cheapens the term. during the military not combat, are somehow lesser. if you're not one did come us tonight at lesser. if your combat did not capture to my gate, at the end you got to be killed to be acceptable. so this is -- >> walked right up to the line. >> which you share with a little bit about your hand the epitaph police. >> sure. he just put down the book and

put it right back in my hands. >> t. want me to share quick >> sure, you can. he picked the palm out of the dark and bitter recesses of the hearts and experience, but it cannot epitaph. at this time i was living in a room that was probably six by eight, and no, no windows, no federally shouldn't. when days of team hope import in the pound and you have to to the desperate sound of empty tab code conversation, when the heat is so hot in the quote is so cold, you think of your youth and how you've grown old and now

live confined outlays slowest station. when the floors for entire speech and my slips away under pounding beat, you try john in the dark desolation and the poem goes on for another 10 or 15 versus in a similar pain and end to when you're surpassed the many decembers, no windows and no one remembers the sound of your voice, your face or your name. see dream is still chargers, at space to roam, mostly h. remove just going home. but you dream without hope or

conviction. while i tap that through the wall and sometime later they came back. she, and thank you a lot for that one. but qaeda suicide pact on the way commercially to join us. the team with poetry come you alas, you'll cry, but you'll think to and i want you to come away -- but is that being? once more with feeling. i try to be honest in the boat as i was with my fellows and just to keep marching and that is the clarion call for the day. often it comes in the form of questions rather than pronouncements.

i'm very very pronouncements come up with sure of questions. thanks for letting me be with you. >> thanks for your time commissary. thanks very much. datastream three. his books "taps of the walls: poems from the hanoi hilton." this is fm 96 am 550 montpelier people be back at the colby military writer symposium that after these import announcements. >> fair enough? thank you. only 50 copies. will have to work on that one. >> stop by the bookstore on the way out thank you again. take care. >> and please, sir, little slice of vermont. >> thank you. please say hi to my enough for me. i feel like ird know her.

>> will take a group of vermonters. it's been consuming in terms of time. >> you are from chicago, right quick >> yeah. i did my show their couple times. >> it's gone from the finch now. but some of the southside have more classical education from the university of chicago. >> thank you again. >> thanks for the coffee.

[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> how are you? your elevation to the sql this is being done? >> that it be great. i was here a few years ago. >> at such a coincidence. >> can i ask you a favor?

>> that's okay. you've got plenty to talk about. you are timely, my friend. >> you want to talk about ukraine? >> i would like to talk about ukraine. >> semi-direct background, i was serving for the u.s. consul general in u.s.-russia and came back to the states with my wife and went to work as -- >> we are back broadcasting live from the colby military writer symposium. and you take a moment or time to remind you that one of our fabulous sponsors paper that reference ichat service envelope. thank you for all of you who've been going. a nice e-mail yesterday from another client.

thank you peered if you have any printing projects in a ticket to come and make it happen for the folksy chat service envelope. 229-9335 and on the web ichat service hyphen envelope.com. use our internet service provider of choice for friends at the map access. toll free number to sign up for their service. you can find them on the web at gma bt.net. we're at the colby military writer symposium. coming up tomorrow afternoon upon a cloud will be a panel discussion talking about the future, that what we have learned in the past wars with united states military. welcome to check seagull who is joining us. check is not an author, but in fact he may have a more useful role for us today because jack

is an expert when it comes to the ukraine. he has served as political adviser to the native joint force commander. he was initially going to talk here at the event and talk about afghanistan. because of the events with russia and the ukraine, a little bit of inaudible has been called and he will be talking about ukraine, the next cold war. something about your work the security council. >> when after serving in russia and my job was as one of four correct errors for russia, ukraine and your ratio. prior to that i served in the state department at the office to write her for ukraine, elevators, molto that and pull in at the background so i became the go to guy in ukraine in particular, but dell says he and

countries. the situation that time was after the collapse of the soviet union, the celts and was in charge of russia. ukraine was led by coach ron hancock choose in the last prime minister i dealt with with a with with excitement of a lesser c-span. less directly sin should up a six-year stretch in federal prison here in the united states for money laundering. he reflects an unfortunate trend of the wonderful people of ukraine who is suffering from more than 20 years of mismanagement, bad government and corruption in its most extreme forms. the >> right to your military service, two tours in iran. >> is a young man i was drafted an attorney to an officer candidate school and sent to the

third prograde at the fourth infantry division on the cambodian border. but i was fortunate a search of lockstep to me when i read to my base camp and said sir, you are in charge but i've been here seven months and a few that may help you remain us get out of here alive. >> file. >> what is the enduring experience of that for you? >> well, i learned at that point i had almost a college education and one i needed to learn more history and learn to understand how politics, political decisions are made. but i also decided that a military career was a huge advantage for me as a person and an opportunity to conduct myself as an officer to the people, to motivate people into the motivate myself and also focus my energies on what was

important at the moment in a combat situation is a very focused thing. but in life in general you always have to kind of keep your mind on the target. and then i decided to become a diplomat and went through the process of qualifying and passing the exams and everything. as a diplomat, found cisco says under the military were quite relevant and experience was very useful. >> we're talking with jack segal. he is talking at the colby military writers symposium about ukraine. how does you educate yourself on ukraine? >> when i knew i was going to the job at the state department as direct or for those countries in the western slavic region, i really immersed myself in ukrainian history and in the history of the other countries i was responsible for. i decided that i needed to talk to as many ukrainians as

possible. and so i reached out to communities first in the immediate washington area and in cities in the midwest in particular with their lethargically named populations. and i found that they are second and third generation americans who still thought of their heritage is ukrainian of the ukraine didn't exist as a country until the collapse of the soviet union. so there is a complicated change and that change is still relevant today. people who are more than 20 years old lived in the soviet union and they were subjects of the soviet empire and they were members of a place called the ukrainian soviet socialist republic. they went to school and spoke russian at school and ukrainian is only something they spoke with their grandmom at home and

maybe not even much of that. after independence you have a generation of young people who think of themselves as ukrainian and they are quite confused right now. they don't understand the relationship with russia. they don't understand where their loyalties should be. they are in a complicated and difficult position i would say. >> go ahead. >> ukraine as an entity if you look at old maps of russia, the russian empire i should say, you should see the name ukraine and it comes from a russian phrase, preposition is currently not and that means on the edge. so it would seem that the russian empire is being the edge of the. in fact, the russian empire began in the city of kiev and then moved to moscow. there is a huge divide in this

country of ukraine that we see today. the borders that exist today on they came out after the second world war and the eastern part of ukraine is still that part in the russian empire part. the western part was carved out of what had been the austro-hungarian empire. the divide is also in the form of religion. most people to the west or east or eastern orthodox. in the linguistic thing is they a moment ago on mccain about fairly recently because ukrainian was encouraged. so ukrainian was used in government offices at school and so on and it was only in recent years ukrainian has been elevated to the position of being the language of ukraine. now it's not to say about if ukrainians feel they are ukrainian, not prescient.

they have nothing to do with russia and that is not omit those that speak primarily ukrainian. during that long period of soviet domination let's say, people intermarry. they were soviet citizens. they didn't think of himself in this ethnic way. they caused that to become very important. >> talking with jack siegel. he spoke speaking here at the symposium about ukraine. it really sounds from what you've described it is sort of the two countries we've been hearing about. >> they are deeply divided and other leaders on both sides are exacerbating the divide for their own political purposes. as i began by saying the wonderful people of this country from that leadership and we hope the next group of leaders will

be better. but that is only a hope that they not be based on a lot of evidence. >> clearly it seems as though they are controlled by moscow. >> well, moscow will always have a lot of leverage over ukraine. the dependence of ukraine on russia for gas and oil. but even beyond that for market, ukraine's biggest market is russia. so they are tightly linked together economically. tom friedman has worked about this helper with as much brain are connected. it is an opportunity if they choose that direction and this is what caused the crisis that could not tober in november of last year, the ideas they have to choose between the european union and russia. maybe that is a false choice that they could've done both.

but those choices now exacerbated itself into open conflict killings and really created a much sharper divide that was ever there. >> we need her vladimir putin, the russian president talk about the boom on income of the breakup soviet union and put it back together, what was your reaction when he heard him say that? >> well, they felt this way ever since the breakup of the soviet union. a lot of russians felt this way. a lot of soviet citizens felt this way. they were super power. they were only equal to the united states of america. and then they went to become a basket case almost. we were providing food aid when i went to central russia to the counsel general. they were in need of food, which is unconscionable nfs country

that i couldn't feed their own people. they dug themselves out of that hole, to benefit from high all prices are late. more from the strong czar like leader, the strong leader that russia had soviet union have had, who takes the range and makes all the decisions. that is something a lot of former soviet citizens are comfortable with. they don't have a lot of schooling and democracy. that's less true in western eastern ukraine, but it is true. they don't like the disorder they went through, the huge upheaval that came about under president yeltsin. but it's just a financial and economic collapse that they had to go through to get through some sort of more economically viable system, which they now have. so their lives are better off. they don't have all the crazy

there. putin is a member of the same flat society that tom friedman wrote about. he's got to sell his goods. he also has made one in porton annex, sub setting. for people who don't remember the history, in 1954 crimea was part of russia. at that time, khrushchev decided to celebrate an event in ukrainian history by giving crimea to ukraine. a gift. in that nothing because the soviet union is never going to collapse at this point. so crimea ended up as part of ukraine produced 866% pression and a russian military base. them and absorb crimea back into russia last month, they also took a million and a half russian voters out of the ukrainian political system.

if they observe three or four other cities in eastern ukraine that is not the demonstrating against the central government, they will take several million more russian voters away from the ukrainian politics and what will happen is you'll almost certainly ensure that the government depicted in these selections will be pro-e.u., pro-european union, pro-nato. so he is a complicated problem on his hands. >> is not interesting piece of the topic under discussion is ukraine is that the next cold war. i'm wondering it will be a cold war on what our reaction is going to be too was going there. is that fair to say? >> it is fair to say. we are in a space geographically that has always been greatly influenced if not dominated by russia. so that is not our space and we

have not the resources, the power, the military power to confront all of russia's capabilities, which is right on the border. henry kissinger said we should make a deal with russia that says ukraine will never be a member of nato. why is it say that? in his view, the russians are looking for that buffer zone that they used to have in the warsaw pact. but they moved into other warsaw pact countries and set the buffer zone is long gone and now he's looking at a situation where ukraine, belarus which has no intention of being part of nato to the north of ukraine. and many of the three baltic states, which are members of nato, which the united states that we support it, even under soviet domination. so those three baltic states feeling very vulnerable no been

pulling feeling very vulnerable no because we were members of nato makes that part of our political problems for you i live in northern michigan wherever it is in dollars we send abroad is a billion dollars not spent in our schools to fix a very bad roads. so we have to make some tough choices here. >> so if you were called then, what would you recommend? >> is certainly think we don't need to see this as the beginning of the new cold war. what we have to do is address the fears putin is stoking right now that this is another move by nato and one step closer into russia's heartland. so we have to sit and discuss that. but right now we are doing something very dangerous i would say.

>> isolating him. >> not only that, but we are meeting with him without the ukrainian set the table. this is something molotov and uber trusted over poland before the second world war got going. we have to be very careful when discussing the future of ukraine that we don't do it in the absence of the ukrainian people. they have to make some choices, too. they've got a tough choice that had that caused them financial team will have to go through if they want to be part of the west and i'm not sure if they are put before the. over the place we need to cool off the rhetoric. we need to shut up a little bit with this public broadcast. precisely yesterday by a very senior official of our government is set if they take any action against eastern ukraine, for she takes action,

we are going to be very, very disturbed by the assist was more disturbed than very disturbed and if we are very disturbed or very, very disturbed, what does that mean. you know, we have to be realistic about how much influence we really have over the situation and how much we're willing to commit to it. i have a friend named brzezinski who argue we need to be tough. we need to move nato directly into ukraine right now. we need to offer membership in nato to ukraine. there's another set of ideas that they are. this i.d. is usually compete in what is the political process in washington these days. >> what is your message to the cadets here today?

>> well, i would say when i first realized the national security council as you aren't handed a piece of paper that says domestic sample ukraine, a blank sheet of paper, but too much ado about it? you are handed a massive piece of paper whiskered limits has khrushchev's decision of 1954 to expand nato into eastern europe. all these historical events that influence choices as a political and military leader and that is the reality that any leader or any business person faces that you don't get to start from scratch. you get to start with where we are today and look forward and say how can i incrementally improve the situation. i always hearken back i met a guy who circled the mid. he was not the guy that went to the surface, but he was in the other capsule.

>> columns, which one quick >> there is a guy named england. tony enclave. if anything goes wrong in space, you have to make sure you don't close of the options. you want to not take any action until you know what you're going to do after the first of your that is what we have to do. the russians play chess a lot and we tend to not play it. we have to look forward for this. what is really trying to get here? what does he really want us to do and what do we need to do? we need to play the game of the cave is not going to happen. we want to play it in a way that it at least once in a draw. >> boris spassky in bobby fischer back again. the mostly he said marriott now both look like what? >> i think ukraine would have had a series of elections which will not be recognized.

the european union will hold back most of the money they are promising because the ukrainian government will be unable to bring about the economic reforms that are needed. so we will be inserted a window situation without really resolving this crisis. i want to add whenever i had the opportunity that we talk about the 99% in the united states. the 9010% has nothing to do with money. it has to do with the fact that 99% of the american public doesn't compute their views. believe me they keep track of it. they don't care what your words are. how many people got in touch with me according to ukraine and which side of the issue with it on? so everyone who's listening can do that right now. they can go to their computer or

read his letter to their representatives and say this is what i think we should do. it doesn't have to be a long letter. but they need to register their view and our politicians are very sensitive to public opinion. look back to the example of syria and chemical weapons. we were going to go in and then there is a weekend where 80% of the people communicated to representatives and say we don't want to avoid serious. lo and behold we didn't have one. >> thank you very much. jack segal will be giving a talk on ukraine. the next cold war? we are broadcasting from the called the military writers symposium. in a few minutes we will talk about george washington did in the you about our good friend. if you need items adjust inward or outward or repaired then someone is closing, our friend mike has more than 50 years of experience. but back to work for you at any

and all of your projects. stop that particular village on the right-hand side from the water. area. he sat that wednesday, thursday and friday. more than 50 years of experience. you will be back right after this. >> so i don't know if you've met him, but there is a professor either born in ukraine are grew up in the ukraine. it's really, really interesting. i need to give you a cup of black coffee. >> thank you very much. i appreciate it. >> good morning. how's it going?

you look just like your picture. not many people can say that. >> i tried to get a face stubble but they would. >> okay, okay. so my dad was a senior partner brownwood forever. he retired when he was 58 anubis in the mid-90s. he was in the towers. you know, one of the things he talked about that is so heartbreaking as we were very fortunate that everybody was okay, but there was all this artwork, the loss.

>> so i'm going to have these koosh writeup on that blank stare. okay. you can send not for me if you would like. mark was the case. did i blow out that late? must've been a powerful question. unless steve. me, too. bill clinton, john mccain,

george bush the first. >> she's two years old at the knee. she is a lefty. adiabatic >> no way. my gosh. yeah, yeah, yeah. it's just her. >> yes. >> we're back broadcasted this morning that a rich university. it is to call the military writers symposium. we went to get to the folks at norwich university. general schneider of the folks at the selected museum. tomorrow afternoon at 1:00 is a public forum. this is an opportunity. there will be a panel discussion about lessons learned from the iraq and afghanistan wars and also a discussion about the future of the military. we are going to go deep into the

past year. and as for radio welcome this morning to folk and heard who has written blood of tyrants and we first want to congratulate him because he is the colby winner this year. this is his book about george washington and the forging of the presidency. congratulations. >> thank you very much. thank you for having me. tell me about the phone call you got. >> i was really excited. i received a call that i had one entity they would realize was nominated because i didn't have a chance above these people to be a part of the group is really amazing. >> tells about your background. he practiced law at sullivan and cromwell. >> i practiced law for a few years and i had the idea for a book that snacking on me since my days of law school. the book started as that law school thesis and some of the professors had told me to expand on this. keep working.

officer bill eskridge, my constitutional law professor and it all started because her having this debate in class about what the commander-in-chief clause meant. you think after all these years we had some idea. distillers sure. but that instantly why don't we look at the one and only commander-in-chief, ratification of the constitution george washington. i expanded on my thesis, went back to yield to read the book. >> the first thing i felt bad that this is said to myself i would imitate the project of writing about george washington. don't we know everything we could possibly know about this guy? >> ray. we do. there's so many great books on washington out there. surrogacy but suppose we can learn from his actions in the field as commander-in-chief to sort of informed the understanding of what the founders were coming from when they said in an article to of

his fiction to commander-in-chief. but it is humorous but i'm not much information on? what does the need to grab? i was finding interesting things that hadn't been spoken about too much not the books. i don't think it's because i'm a special researcher i have magical powers come if they had the benefit of the digitization of these materials. the university of virginia university of virginia are amazing that compiling all these documents scattered throughout the country and making them accessible. so i think it allowed me to find interesting lines of trucks of what washington was thinking insane about different subjects much more easily. >> talk about your sister about round coming your connection to at least one of the founding fathers. >> yes, james madison asked

whether the constitution. i think that is why the book came about because my parents would always tell me you are descended from the speech or and that's it working to remember. >> not to say too high an expectation or anything. >> my goodness, good luck. i hope i'm not letting them down. i'm trying. they always said always been back to the history where you come from. so when i see things in the news, things going on, i instantly relate back to the founding era receiver principles mirror each other. >> you know, what is so interesting about your book can be taken forward and try to buy to some of the contentious things going on today. for example, you talk about george washington and the issue of how you treat prisoners of war, torture and what i found so fascinating about this, i resent i interviewed him initialize

about her book about calvin coolidge and she was extremely resistant quick hop additional when i try to suggest that she was trying to have calvin coolidge shoehorned him into the 21st century here and what do we learn from that. perhaps it is the virtue foreign. that you make no bones that your attempt here is to put what would washington do today almost. >> i do, but i try to extract it with the. what i getting at is the concept of original sin and the constitution based on what the people who ratified it by. you know, there's tremendous debate amongst the justices, academics about how much weight to give the history. i try not to get into the thick of the debate. instead i said vast majority of the history gave some way as a starting point. i look at the history and see what we can derive this general

principles. i hope i pull it off, but i'm eager to show this is how they think about these checks are missing gruesome subjects. i think there is much to learn. i try not to say church rushing to get xo xo is correct today. >> in fact in your conclusion or at the law, and really tried to make a fine distinction there. but at the same time, it is pretty clear to me that you are trying to impart some of those messages to the pasco weathers issue of torture, the finances of the country. so what if it's returned to extract from washington's time that we should apply to now? >> absolutely. all this history is a great starting point for conversation. i'm trying to stir the debate about these subjects. remember again where we come from. different issues. one of the strongest sort of narratives that connects all the book i find is the difference in

power of the commander-in-chief over foreign nationals versus american citizen. so it comes to even things that torture or military commissions or citizens rights to wartime i find this interesting divide whereby she could come you know, probably into the war he shows great authority it has great discussion over defending his people. when it comes to impacting the people themselves, he has to defer to the civilian authorities coming to the states about legislators to the course. >> you right at the end derive personal enrichment from having generations struggle. the direct impact on not enough provides a practical reason to stay at the revolutionary. i'm not attempting to oversimplify by arguing washington backs therefore they can do accent or the granted that aired in september humbly assert the president set by

washington in wartime should be taken into consideration. >> it's an important consideration. in today's debate was inside his were the country started and by bringing the knowledge from the founding era were they sort of defined what it meant to be an american can help us. what struck me when i started writing this was a quote from it. he said the foundation of the empire was late actor in the plume age of ignorance and superstition that the epic on the rights of mankind were better understood and clearly defined. in this auspicious day of the united states came into existence as a nation and the fault be entirely up the road. so that grabs me. >> that is impressive you just want. >> when you work with us so much eastern internalizing. even when i answer questions and start reciting i've written the book that i had forgotten about. you internalize these notions

into these things is a direct charge to each of us to remember our past and remember what for me to write for this great. of which they sort of had this clarity to the american. i cannot do next comparison, but take the analogy is principles that help guide us. >> talking with logan beirne, author of "blood of tyrants" george washington and fortune of the presidency. on that point i was interested to learn about the development of citizenship. back then now is the revolutionary comp didn't. >> u.s. open is significant about it because about 20% of the country were loyalists. we were treated the whole concept of citizenship in which we were american citizens and even conflict within that because other people thought of themselves as were citizen of the state in any kind of nation.

and one episode washington asks where his troops to budget up to the united states of america and sure enough they come back and pay new jersey is their country. the result of conflict about citizenship, trying to create an american citizen and that was quite an clear the beginning of the war. but we did one thing that was sort of amazing and revolutionary for revolutions is to define that the dissenting minority, the loyalists were still citizen and largely washington at least try to protect their rights, which seems insane if you think about beckett portion of your population fighting against you. he wouldn't mind me shooting a kid that came to their homes, persecuting him. he thought of them as citizens who were afforded certain rights. >> i'm glad you mentioned the state because i was really

pretty obvious good for your book here how much more powerful states her back then. >> absolutely. during this time, we didn't even have a real national government. it asserted this week in federation, the continental congress was tethered the states. the congress had very little powers. in fact, they are completely dependent upon the states to donate supplies and troops to the rv and this is why one of washington's great frustrations throughout the war if he was undersupplied because the states wanted to keep their men, their supplies at home to protect their individual state is supposed to help in sister states and after the war under the articles confederation, we still have this loose federation where was that working too well and shay's rebellion was taken into the good >> without the story because because he wound up in vermont.

>> absolutely. >> do you know where in vermont he was hiding out quick >> it is escaping me right now. where was it? eventually he did go back to massachusetts. >> i was thinking an intent. >> that sounds right. it was satire. he was their massachusetts. >> i learned a couple things about church rushing to your book but i did know. one assumes comfortable talking talking to a small crowd, but he was not entirely comfortable public speaker. >> no, he was not. when you think of washington mrs. gray politician who had this been made toys and would command the room. physically he was great. a very tall man, large men, strong, audit. great dancer. but when it came to speaking, his teeth -- he a terrible dental problems than they would garble his voice and he had any illnesses as a child and a 15 and he is earthy, wispy voice

that didn't project too well. >> the other together and unlike anybody else in that area who track i would say excessively in part because the water was so bad and you had to drink something. but he was not a big sky. >> you must not. i was looking into the debates at the constitutional convention the final disinterest in interest in stories john adam would take office apart. >> and then lunch. >> and then they go to the local pubs afterwards and have also from the docs could swim in and they would be drinking heavily. in part because if you drink the water you could get disease and died. washington, he was a man of great moderation. he tried to stay away from any kind of gambling, cards. any excessive drinking. he would drink wine with dinner thing site that, but you would

keep everything in moderation and stay away from vices because he saw himself as a real bore authority to unite us. >> here's the thing i couldn't get out of your book. i didn't know whether to determine who is a weak person as some suggested in your book or a very strong leader. >> he was extremely strong. a lot of times looking back in the history books to learn grammar school, high school come you see this one-dimensional figure who of course is going to win. he's a demagogue and he know all the answers and upper trail of washington is less interesting inserted decimate the service. what i try to do with washington to show him for the amazing man he was. the fact he was human, he had -- it was scrapping the different issues we still face today. that makes him even more

precipitously later that he was able to calm to the right decision in later perilous times when there is a lot of insertion tea. >> one of the topics to get into because we are short on time. you talk about torture. i get a little bit of a mixed message. on the one hand washington seems to be saying the president has the ultimate authority of dealing with enemy combatants. but on the other hand, he didn't want to exercise the full authority against them. what was his view on this? been knocking out the head. if it's mixed. you have this strong urge that he wants to raise our behavior over wars of the past and treat the prisoners with respect and dignity. and he tries. where he runs into trouble is the british don't reciprocate because the british css not oteri adversaries but as

rebellion. they treat our soldiers terribly, scorches en masse opinions, horrible things happening. washington starts writing for the need for retaliation and potential as a necessary evil of torture to protect citizens. washington was extremely morro, extremely principled in his approach to protecting his people. so he would be very heads-up and protect its citizens with ruthless methods because that was his job. needed to protect us from the foreign invaders. >> were canonically else quick >> i'm working on a book now on washington as a businessman. >> wait a minute, let a guess. you apply some of his business is something today. >> perhaps. i try to extract as much a reader to read for themselves.

but we have a lot to learn because he started off life as a middle class, lower middle class and ended up being the wealthiest president we've ever had. >> is the wealthiest president we ever had quick >> that we ever had. >> house so quick >> first of all, he married rich. that helped a lot. he took that wealth and he made it to so much more the land speculation, creating mount vernon to what i call bob bernanke in which multi-industry's going down there. >> are you in the first name basis with everybody down there quick >> nicad. they are busy people. >> thank you for your time. quite an honor. the people of also won this award like john beauchamp, that's pretty incredible cast of characters. thank you again. logan beirne is the author of "blood of tyrants." this is church rushing to him in the forging president be. part has denied this morning

from the pull the military better symposium. we'll take a final break in the morning and we will be right back to rack up after this. >> would have a bag of coffee, right? i loved your book. the one thing i didn't tell you, which i should have. your writing is so smooth. i whispered in the senate was like i really pride myself on writing -- there's no choppiness and what you write at all. >> thank you. i worked really hard on the flow. thank you for saying