c-span 2. television for serious readers. >> lynne cheney examines the political philosophy and tenure of president james madison. she talked about the book with her husband dick cheney. this is a little under an hour. [ applause ] [applause] ♪ ♪ ♪

has. >> batson was nice. says almost enough to make you want to run for office. [laughter] >> almost. we are delighted to be back here tonight we have the opportunity to visit the nixon library on a number of locations in to serve the nixon administration during the first term and i am always pleased to come back to visit this part of the world to be reminded of the important time in our history. but i was happy to be a part of the administration. we should explain why we are here together. i was born in lincoln nebraska and she was born in

casper wyoming. 1954 when i was 13 years old my dad moved the family to caspar wyoming. he had a choice between there or montana. we grew up together and i took her out when she was 16 and we will celebrate our 50th wedding anniversary. [applause] butted dad picked montana instead of wyoming of course, i never would have mary lynn she would have married someone else and she said then he would have been vice president of the united states. [laughter] [applause] >> i don't recall that was one of the jokes. >> now i am freelancing.

we are here to talk specifically about a magnificent book she has written about james madison with great reviews and we are on the book to our high has been to the nixon even before when i had other books to publish. but now it is an opportunity for her to present her as. it is superb about the nation's fourth president and the plan is devil ask her questions and she will respond at the end of the period we will open to questions from the audience. but why madison? >> before you get there i want to say i am so grateful for dick to join me on this book tour.

i am referring to him as my arm candy. [laughter] i was interested in madison for a long time i had that privilege to serve on the bicentennial commission in 1987 and then they first begin to understand how significant his accomplishments were but yet how the recognized he was for what he has accomplished in his political life but a few years ago i finally became serious and it is a labor of love. i hope you will enjoy the book as much as i enjoyed writing and. he was the architect of the constitution, bill of rights the establishment of the first government under the constitution and under the first or and he performs if

not magnificently in all those jobs at least very well. and john adams who is a sour figured on prone to taking compliments easily he wrote the james madison administration had covered itself with more glory than any predecessors. that is the great compliment. and it has been so much fun. five years does not sound like fun but discovering things to put it into a form that i hope would reach a ride -- a wide audience. but to reconfigure his life. >> was the most important contribution?

>> if you had to pick just one? >> it would have to be the constitution. i think he was a genius because the kind of genius he had with conventional thinking everyone was thinking one way of madison did not accept it. he >> and he did that in the case of establishing a great republic which is what we are. the conventional wisdom was you could not have a representative government. that it would be too loose over a long and vast extent of land and fall apart unless you had monarch power, a king at the center. madison thought that wasn't

true. he thought the danger was one fraction would dominate everyone else. and he thought if you had many factions than no single one was likely to become oppressive and that was the rational for the constitution produced in philadelphia. it was his genius to see "what work works" -- what everyone else was talking about. >> how about about his relationship with the other founders. george washington for example. >> we think of the founders sitting around and having a polp polite conversation and having the greater good in mind at all times. it is better to believe them for the who they were and that is

people that believed in their point of view and were willing to fight to see it succeed. madison was washington's chief lieutenant. when the first government under the constitution began and this is familiar to anyone in politics, washington had an aid write his inaugural address and she produced a 72-page disaster and washington wrote to madison and asked please come to mount v vernon and he did and wrote the address and did a good job. after washington who delivered the address, madison who was the leader of congress, wrote the congress response to the inaugural address. and washington thought madison was so good at this he asked him

to write the replay back. it is hard to imagine how his voice was echoing off every wall. i am not sure there has been another time in history when one man has been so influential at the beginning of the administration like he was with washington. >> when you talk about the constitutional convention there were battles over provisions and we ended up with article 1, 2, and 3 and it took a long time with many hours and days of work to put it together. can you sight the specific comp compromise and were able to resolve? >> it was the thing we learn about the big state and the small states. the big states wanted them to be

represented according to their population. the small states wanted them to be representative states. we know the compromise represented states in the senate and half in the house. and madison was appalled by that. he went into the constitution convention thinking the great threat was the state and he called them the evil states because they were so irresponsible under the articles of confederation oppressing freedoms and turning out money. rhode island was especially bad. they called it rogue island. and they made it acceptable for merchants to take the money for the debt that occurred so you

might be getting paid off at a penny on a dollar. they were conducting their own foreign policy and madison thought the states needed to be controlled and when it turned out it was turned out the solution was to have states represent states. and it took him a few days to get used to that. >> what made him think they needed a vice president? >> that is an eternal question, isn't it? it had to do with the electoral college where they would go when they could not agree on anything else and the congress would chose the president. and just imagine how different the presidents would be if the congress was choosing.

you would not have had a ronald reagan and i don't think about a nixon either. everybody gets two votes. and again the big states and small states. the small states are worried that the big states will always elect the president. so to sway their concern the deal was made that you could only cast one vote and one of those two votes was for someone from your own state and the other had to be cast for somebody from another state. then they started worrying, and you have all played this kind of game, you want that one vote for your own guy in your own state to be important, you throw away the second vote. you know you expend it on jim who doesn't have a chance. to prevent that we are getting to the answer they invented the vice presidency. the idea was the person who got

the second highest number of votes would become vice president. and that seemed like a pretty good idea. then they started worrying what was he going to do? and you know, it is so interesting to see how it builds up. they decided he needed a job and they would make him president of the senate. by the end of the constitutional convention there were two delegates who were so worried about the vice president, a creature of the executive branch, being president of the senate part of the legislative branch, about his just violating the separation of powers. two delegates al bert gary and randolph of virginia or now

george mason of virginia sighted that the vice president was the reason they would not sign the constitutional. they called it the dangerous office. >> during the course of his career, in terms of implementing the constitution would be the best way to describe it, alexander hamilton was an important player in all of that. can you talk about what it was that led to their major d disagreeme disagreements and confrontation? >> it is important to note they were not friend but they did write the federalist papers. and the story of writing that -- and if you don't mind i will divert here. it was so interesting because it

was done with speed and haste. and i was explaining to a college university that what madison did during one period of time during 40 days was the equivalent of writing a ten-page paper every other day. you could do that. it doesn't seem impossible but the papers became immortal so writing politics and an effort to convince people to support the constitution at the break neck speed and the printer was putting the beginning parts of essay into print often before they were finished. so madison and hamilton respected one another until hamilton was secretary and made

his financial plans clear. when establishing a nation bank came up he was concerned. he didn't think a bank was a bad idea but at the constitutional convention -- actually he said at the convention he proposed giving congress the ability to have powers which is what you need to start a bank. congress didn't have that power and that was madison's problem. hamilton was running rough shops over the strict numbers congress was given. madison thought you should not establish a bank. he lost the fight. but went on to win the war, i guess you would say, he established the first opposition

political party. parties didn't have better reputation then than they do now. it was counter intuitive and against the wisdom that said parties were divisive and noisy and we didn't want them in the republic. he said a government without opposition is a little more than a monarchy. so he organized the party in a way to try to change the way that hamilton was trying to run the government to make it so strong madison thought it was something the constitutional didn't think about. he managed to get jefferson elected and he was a small government guy like madison. >> one of the most important

functions is the roll of commander and chief and who is going to run the wars and be in charge of the military. and of course, madison as you mentioned in the opening was the first president to have to conduct a war under the constitution. and the way that power was vested into the presidency strikes me as a great story because that is not how they started out. can you talk about that? >> the proposal of the constitutional convention that was about to go through was that the congress among their delegated powers was the power to make war. and madison -- his mind was so quick, you know? his intelect grasped what would be the result of the proposals. he changed the word make to declare. congress would have the power to

declare war. he did this in part because he had seen what a mess congress made of things when they were in charge of war. he had seen he had been a member of the confederation congress where there was no executive and the congress would decide, you know, they would write george washington and send white horse harry lee south and they would realize there was trouble in the north and they would say send light horse harry north. it wasn't a way to run a war. madison left to his feet and said congress has the power to declare war and that made the president commander and chief once the war was started. >> how did he do as commander and chief? the british marched on washington and burned down the capital and whitehouse. was he a good commander and

chief? >> he was patient. like lincoln, he had trouble with generals. in the war of 1812 the generals were people that served in the revolution and they were getting long in the tooth. and they were not as brave maybe as they might have been in their younger years. one general who was supposed to invade canada to go over the border near detroit became so alarmed at the rumors that turned out to be true actually that the british had formed a strong alliance with the indians who were great warriors that the americans might have to face this and he turned around and defeated detroit. he didn't just invade canada he gave the british detroit. so generals were a problem as they were with lincoln. not so with admirals.

the navy then started under john adams with six spigots and they have 8-9 by the end of the war. the british had more than a hundred frigates. but the navy trained all of the time and brought newer and younger brood to man the ships. the navy kept going all that time and has a result there were magnificant victories in the war of 1812. and people like john hall were fleeing from their allies, isaac hall was commanding the constitution and the uss constitution most famously encountered a british frigate and just wiped her out. part of the reason was that our

frigates, though they were fewer, were better build and the cannon balls bounced off the side of the constitution and that is why she gained the name of old iron side. there were splended naval victories and toward the end of the war we were developing a new class of generals. so madison was patient and he served through the first generals. i don't know what choice the commander in chief has in that. and absolutely helped celebrate the glories of the navy. he also changed his mind and he wasn't afraid to do that when circumstances changed. he had long regarded armies and navies as too expensive and as a threat to the republic, too easily used against the

citizens. by the end of the war of 1812 he was suggesting to the congress they expand the navy and provide for a standing army. >> how would you evaluate him overall? how was he looked upon? how was he viewed by the public in the day of his command as someone who was successful or not successful? >> madison was one of the fews who left the president highly regarded by his countrymen. we don't pay much attention to the war of 1812 but it was regarded by americans as evidence we should be recognized on the world stage and we deserve to be recognized on the word stage and the rest of the world began to do that especially after andrew jackson

beat the heck out of the british at the battle of new orleans. >> one of the research that same up had to do with madison health. i think it is major contribution from the standpoint of history. he had an affliction with him his entire life and was able to achieve these phenomenal objectives under extraordinary circumstances and he was one of the most important founders. can you tell us what his problem was and how he dealt with it. >> it was one of the puzzles to me in the beginning. people called madison shy which he wasn't he was reserved. and they said he was sickly. and you could see he was sick from time to time but between the episodes of whatever it was he was enormiously energetic and

taking trips by horses and travelling in days when travel wasn't easy between his home and wherever the capital was undertaking the routine trips i have often thought none of the scholars who called him sickly could manage. and during the war of 1812 he was on horse back for 60 hours when washington was burned. so he was sick a lot but between sickness he was quite well. there is a letter he wrote at the end of the presidency and it hasn't been published. it is at fire stone library at princeton. it is draft of an autobiography he wrote in which he says he was and this is the

quote sudden attacks somewhat resembling epilepsy and suspending function. no one took him serious and i think people want to shy away from it because it is difficult to figure out health in the 18th centu century. you can see the periods where he had these episodes. this description of his sudden attacks fit quite well with what neurologist call complex seizures which is a mild form of epilepsy. he had long febrile seizures as a child and that is often part of a syndrome that involves

epileptic seizures as an adult. so he fits into all of that. he suffered the first at princeton when he was at college. and you could see it. he fell into this period of deep despondancy and worried about his soul and he would not live long and worried he wasn't good enough. and he was lucky. his doctors urged him to exercise and that being fit would help. it didn't end the seizures but he was remarkablely fit and that doesn't fit with the sickly image. i think once he took his physical health in hand he took his soul in hand and he wasn't going to believe the things people said about epilepsy.

people would say if you had epilepsy you were evil and full of sin and posessesed by the delve. and madison decided he didn't have to believe that. i think this fed into his support of freedom of religion. people can believe in whatever religion or no religion if they want into his strong support of freedom of conscious and no body should have to believe anything that he or she thinks to himself is wrong. he led the way for freedom of conscious and religious freedom more than any other founder even more than jefferson. >> what had to the autobiography? he didn't finish it?

>> he didn't. it just a draft. after you have been in political life people write and say tell me things about yourself and this fellow wanted to publish whatever madison sent him so he started the autobiography but didn't finish it. he decided not to talk about the epilepsy because it was so demonized and he decided it was more trouble than worth. ... than it was worth to pull that down on his head. >>host: he still had the amazing ability to perform as he did year after year. >> to see can as having complex partial seizures explains how he could be sick sick sick but full of energy in perfectly well in

between the energy expended at the constitutional convention was waterfall. >>host: dolly. >>guest: don't you love her? she was beautiful. men stopped in the street of philadelphia when she walked past because she was so beautiful. she had dark hair, blue eyes red lips pale skin, the [lahterackage. madison was smitten when you saw her on the street. he asked his good friend and this will be a surprise to you, his good friend aaron burr. [laughter] they had gone to princeton together and he asked ehrenberg before he got in trouble. he asked him to introduce him to dolly. she received him and her paller. she wore a mulberry red dress and yellow glass beads and he was a goner. [laughter] they married a few months later and she was a political asset. i am always kind of skeptical

about how important wives are. she was important but i'm not sure anymore if it's as important as it might offend or you sometimes think it is. more and more wives have their own careers so they aren't central to getting their husbands elected that dolly was. it does in those days the congressional caucuses pick the presidential nominees. there were no conventions but they would do a caucus on the republican side and the federalist side. they pick the nominees. dalai made all of those members of congress very happy. they were miserable. while she was just getting started they lived in the sporting houses. one senator sachs we are in sensible like bears from talking nothing but politics from morning to night. there was no place to go but there was one club in washington that specialized in rope

dancers. [laughter] i'm not sure either. [laughter] maybe tightrope walkers. that's my story. i don't know. so these men were so happy when the madisons open the doors of their house on m street and welcome them no matter the party. they played cards. dolly took a little snuff a long henry clay -- a long slide henry clay. it was warm and congenial and they didn't mind if you talk politics. jefferson didn't like people to talk politics around him. he likes things smooth you know and calm. so he didn't invite people from both parties to dinner. he would only invite people from one party of the time but no the madisons mix it up. people loved love to dolly. she loved them and they began to feel not only great respect for madison but great warmth because of dolly's entertaining.

there's even contemporary testimony to her having been in some not insignificant measure responsible for his getting the nomination in 1808. >> james and dolly were married for 42 years. >> not as long as us. [laughter] >> no. in august as i mentioned they -- we would be married 50 years. tell us what was the highpoint of those 50 years to you? [applause] a question what is the highpoint of those 50 years to you? [laughter] >> not the 42 years with dolly? >> no. >> i new was dangerous to have you ask me a question. one defense i can think of really present to and a light that i think people don't often

see u.n.. darth vader is the image. [laughter] but folks let me tell you he's a real romantic. for the 50th anniversary of our first date, now what year was that? >> it would have been 1958. >> so was 2008 was the 50th. dick arranged a surprise party for me to celebrate the 50th anniversary of our first date. all husbands in the audience tried to top that. it was very special and we invited our college friends. he even had the good sense to tell me we were going to the british ambassadors for dinner. now you don't want to take somebody to a surprise party especially i think it is true especially a woman if she doesn't have on a nice dress and he don't want to take her if take her for harrison rollers or whatever the equivalent nowadays is. so he got me to dress up and he told me the story weeks in advance. then the annual gridiron dinner

happened in washington. as vice president and spouse we would always sit at the head table. this particular location after his telling me we were going to the british embassy that night i was sitting next to the british ambassador. [laughter] so is dick put it i had to really -- he had to tell him the cover story and the british ambassador didn't say a word and the surprise was complete. it was really a wonderful night. he had a cake made that was tall and had a little body sticking out of it with blond hair. but the cake was red and it was a skirt and he did that because on our first date i wore a red formal with the big red skirt. [applause]

are you blushing? >> no. [laughter] just like dolley madison. just like -- one more question and we will turn over to the audience. this is the difficult question actually. what was madison's greatest disappointment with respect to the constitution in those formative years as a republican? >> well you know he was entirely pleased with the constitution when it was finished but he thought it was probably the best human beings could do so he became a fervent defender. at the end of his life and all throughout his life he hated slavery. he wrote a letter as a young man in which he said i want to do everything i can to become independent of slave labor. to get off his fathers plantation or farm as they called it, to live an independent life in which he wouldn't be dependent upon that

dreadful institution. and he tried but he didn't really have a long time to try at it. he became involved in public life and creating the constitution and so forth. so he didn't succeed. jefferson also hated slavery and he didn't succeed from freeing himself from it though i don't think he had such a old, such a firm goal in mind as madison did at the end of long lives they both died owning slaves. you could see him toward the end of his life clinging desperately to the only thing he could think of that might help which was the american colonization society. one of the problems by the 1830s was that if you freed slaves they couldn't stay in virginia. there was a law that prevented that. neighboring states pass laws so that freed's slaves could move

there so there was this idea of finding a place in africa and paying the way for free slaves to go to liberia. the problems were many one of which a major was that freed slaves and slaves generally thought of the united states as their home. the slaves of montpellier had been in virginia as long as madison's family had so it was a failed scheme from the beginning but you could see them just clinging to it not able to think of anything else that could give him the kind of hope he had as a young man that this awful institution be done away with. >> may be to wrap up this part can you say a word about his madison were here tonight, would he think that we have been true to the basic principles of this work? >> i think he would be appalled with the size and scope of the federal government. he would think that we moved far

away from the limited powers that were given by the constitution to the federal government. he might be somewhat gratified though his disappointment would be much greater at seeing the ways in which the constitution that does still prove itself relevant time and again. i was earlier telling some people a story and it just occurred to me in the last few weeks the supreme court is considering a case that involves whether you should -- whether police should have the authority to search your cell phone if they stop you for a traffic violation. there were two instances in which this happened and those two cases are argued before the supreme court. it's interesting you know, when i mentioned this to people they will say well that's wrong or they will say that's right. maybe even the guy that was stopped was a terrorist. what's interesting and what i try to emphasize is that's not

how we decide things in our society about how you feel about it and whether you think oh that's writer that's wrong. we turn to the constitution to make these decisions and the supreme court justices will go back to a constitution that was formed so long before there were cell phones but the justices will have to go back to the fourth amendment which madison wrote that talks about citizens not being subject to what's the phrase? unreasonable. unreasonable search and seizure so he would be gratified i think that the constitution still lives so there is an enormous effort to renew it. >> with that water we send the mic. >> thank you. let's think lynne and vice president cheney.

[applause] they have agreed to a few questions which we will do before the book signing. i'm going to start with this young man who is from what school? >> chatham university. >> and your question is? >> you talked about how he was viewed by his peers. could you talk maybe a little bit about how he was viewed by the public, whether they liked him or they didn't like him in the way he kind of started government? >> well, madison was -- if he were alive today he wouldn't be the fellow who elbowed everyone else out of the way to get to the tv cameras. i don't think that all of his deeds in the early republic were fully appreciated by his fellow citizens. certainly by the time his presidency was over he was deeply appreciated. his contemporaries were most enthusiastic about his job as commander commander-in-chief. i do think that's really the

positive side. it's a good question. >> from corona del mar high school. >> was madison's most significant domestic precedencprecedenc e? >> i'm sorry? >> significant domestic precedent. >> his most significant achievement may be well the constitution. what we had was a country that was growing increasingly unstable during the articles of confederation and what madison did with the constitution and this idea that you know faction would be put against faction and ambition against ambition. this creates a stable environment. alexander hamilton is often credited for the economy that we have today, the vital economy that the united states has but madison's role in giving businessmen and the rest of us a

stable environment in which to live what's a major contribution >> cure from corona del mar high school. what presidents did james madison sets during his presidency? >> what precedent is? well i think he set an important precedent really important one as commander-in-chief. there was a seditious movement going on. in the northeast particularly they didn't like the war in new england and some in new york. they hated the war because it was very damaging to that part of the country economically. there was so much anger about the war that there was talk of secession and even some organization towards secession. there was even an effort to strangle loans for the wire by going after the people, the big bankers and the northeast and convincing them not to fund the

war. so i think when madison refused to put down that kind of protest it was free speech. you are welcome to stand up and say whatever you want and you were not going to be oppressed. when madison led free speech continue even though in my opinion a lot of it was seditious i think he set a variant port and president. it was certainly one his countrymen appreciated. he knew that infighting for the republic he didn't want to suppress those rights that the republic created in part to protect. so that's it. >> math home under corona del mar high school. which president in the last century would you best equate to james madison? [laughter] >> a good question. >> you know, it is a good

question that i find myself as an historian thinking that you have to take the founders and abraham lincoln and put them in an entirely different category. not because they were different people but because the challenges they faced were so enormous. it's hard to think of somebody like franklin pierce. you could include franklin roosevelt in there too. you look at presidents who faced existential challenges. if what they were doing didn't work out the founders faced that kind of existential challenge. i think it ingrained themselves in a national story because of their overcoming the challenges they face. lincoln face that and i think you could say franklin roosevelt did too area did so i guess the last century would be the 20th

century. maybe roosevelt in terms of the challenges that we faced and overcame. >> from casper wyoming. >> oh wow that's my home. >> heading back there tomorrow. mrs. cheney, when about madison's height. he was only 5 feet 4 inches and he was the shortest president. i wanted to know in your research did you find that he had any troubles because of that especially with regard to his relationships with women? as you know he didn't get married until he was a lot older and dolly was 17 years younger than he was. mr. vice president i wanted to ask you about bald presidents. [laughter] speedball president's? >> eisenhower in the last 750 years was her only bald president and i was wondering if you think there's going to be anymore yourself as a partially

bald vice president? >> now if i may go first. >> please. [laughter] >> i have always believed in the principle that my good friend al simpson went by that we all know from the senate. it values to say we all have only so many hormones. if you want to waste yours growing hair that's okay by me. [laughter] [applause] >> a young lady from redlands california. >> hi. you mentioned how important was to madison the freedom of conscience so i'm wondering how you feel about the fact that the whistleblower who exposed the torture program is the only one currently -- the president for its? >> excuse me. please finish. >> well i think and the supreme

court has wrestled with this too you are welcome to believe anything you want to. you are welcome to say almost anything but what you can't do is violate national security ordinances that would endanger the country. edward snowden is a case in point. i think he is a traitor and i feel it does not bode well for our society that he is being valorized or having betrayed his country. [applause] [inaudible] >> i'm sorry. you need a microphone. >> maybe this is off point. [applause]

be i respect your right to speak your mind but i also reserve the right for myself and dick not to answer your question. [applause] >> dr. frank kannon in the back of the room here. >> you spent five years living with in addition to the vice president living with james madison. >> i gave the other 45 to dick. [laughter] >> can you talk about writing the book like this where the papers, where did you visit and are their madison descendents and if you could ask him james madison today one question that emerge from your research what would that question be? >> that last is just really a puzzler. i will have to think about that one while i talk. the madison papers are in

different places. you do have to travel a little bit. you have to go to princeton for example because there are published papers there. you have to go to philadelphia. their unpublished papers about madison's family in the preservationist oracle society but 30 volumes of madison's paper on line. they have been digitized and they have done a wonderful job of digitizing them. dolly's papers as well have been done by the university of virginia so think of that. research is so much easier now than it has been before. i think and i was chairman of the national endowment for the humanities for a time and i used to be appalled at some of the things that we funded. but if they were to increase the budget so they could make the funding of the founders and digitizing them so citizens could have ready access i think that would be a good expenditure. you know frank i can't give you a serious answer. i just have to think about what

i'd have to ask madison so my unserious answer is i would say how tall were you? [laughter] it has been disputed. someone said 5 feet 4 inches and is favored aides said 5 feet 6 inches. is it confusion about whether the aid was trying to be flattering. i am 5 feet tall. i think even 5 feet 4 inches would have been fine. [applause] >> the young man who studied in singapore and is a student at pepperdine university. >> my name is jacob young. pertaining to james madison's life is there a particular piece that maybe the history books are missing that you think there's not enough information on and that you would be most interested in learning more about? >> well there were two things that really stuck out to me as i went through, personal things. this whole idea that he was shy is the 20th century invention. his contemporaries said nothing about that.

they noted that he was a politician who had learned the trait of not speaking before you needed to, being respectful to your elders when you are very young politician, not speaking carelessly. madison spent a great deal of his life cleaning up after jefferson who is prone to speaking carelessly. so the fact that he wasn't shy and i spent a lot of time showing in the book that in fact he wasn't and then this sickly thing. that was really important to get rid of this myth that he was so burdened by his health at all times and could barely get out of debt. you know you just can't see this vital politician as a man who was that way and i think the idea of being shy and sickly has damaged his reputation and they hope my book will do something to restore it. >> a gentleman from orange california with a real quickie.

mr. vice president where did you guys go on your first date? [laughter] >> oh well. [laughter] actually we went to a formal thrown by one of the high school girls social club's. they went with some good friends in the double dated. lindh did wear an amazing red formal gown and afterwards we stopped in what in casper is referred to as --. >> now stop. >> eight gets better. >> no. >> we hadn't been there very long when we discovered some friends of ours including someone who dated lynne before i did had taken the air out of the tires of our car. we spend a lot of time creeping back down to the telling station so we could get air in the tires

and by then of course we were violating lynne's curfew. >> we had violated it. so i was very concerned at that point. i knew if i violated the curfew on the first date i knew i'd be in trouble by somebody but the great thing about it in retrospect was that lynne's mother was the secretary to the police chief and we didn't make a move that night that had been reported to her at home. [laughter] >> one last question from a student from chatham university. speaking you share some of the most influential authors that may have influenced james madison? >> i'm sorry. >> could you share some of who you think would be the most influential works or others that

would shape his opinions in the writings of those papers? >> well he had a classical education and in the run-up to the constitutional convention he undertook a study project of years reading classical accounts of previously temps at establishing a republic. he saw where they had gone astray and that helped inform his proposals in the constitutional convention. classical sources were important to him but practical sources were important as well. he not only wrote what had happened to pass republics. he wrote what was wrong with the current one and that he had learned from serving in state government, serving in continental congress. it's a nice pairing. he not only undertook this philosophical exploration he undertook an understanding of the art of politics. he was a genius to vote and so his reading was part of that.

he was reading authors like montague but also has practical experience was crucial to his successes. >> ladies and gentlemen let's thank the cheneys. [applause] i want to thank them. >> i'm hopefully going to get to three books. the zimmer grimms hologram and the 12 tribes of hattie mathis and of hattie matheson the book that senator levin sent on to me the jewish pirates of the caribbean. the first two books were books that i found the zimmerman

telegram when i was at the elliott book festival speaking on my book and was just really intrigued by the story. for me as the first jewish woman to represent florida and congress historical depictions and stories about the jewish experience really just intrigued me and i think past is prologue and we have an opportunity to learn from the experiences that she had been through. that story is really -- the zimmerman telegram specifically is an interesting story because it was the telegram that was intercepted by great britain to

essentially try to get mexico into the war against the united states. the story goes through the balancing act they had to do to not reveal that they had cracked the german code but at the same time notified the united states of the impending danger. the jewish pirates of the caribbean is the book that focuses on you know that past prologue and the history we have been through. they were jewish pirates who were fighting the spanish inquisition and who rode the high seas. that looks senator levin told me tells the story about what they went through and their adventures and the outcome of those and the 12 tribes of hattie is a story about black

migration throughout american history but particularly the great migration from the south of african-americans particularly following slavery and the struggles that african-americans have gone through and the tough life that they have lived. this is a fictional story that depicts a family and a mother who prepares her children, her nine children for the difficult challenges they will face throughout their lives. >> what are you reading this summer? tell us what's on your summer reading list. tweet us said of tv. posted to her face but cage or send us an e-mail. look tv at c-span.org. ..

>> the. >> in it was temperamental he was shy but he also had a political purpose if he did not talk a