>> here is what i know. i know facilities have not -- not to my knowledge or understanding with facilities -- we will be briefing on facilities as we go. >> i only make the request because i read about it in the media. and so i would find it very disingenuous if united states senator has already been briefed on a facility in his state, members of this have just been asking for the same thing. i yield back the rest of my time. >> i will be calling office later about not receiving this briefing.

>> his ptsd led to numerous health care problems and he was suffering from skin care palmistry when he moved to phoenix he needed cancer screenings and was told the weightless to see a doctor was six to nine months long and is there any way possible that in phoenix or any other system that someone would be told by her doctor that would be six to nine month wait? >> horseman, i would hope not, but i don't know the specifics of the case. >> we have been hearing about time and hoping and trying and hoping, and that's not solving the problem. >> is there anyone here on a separate area that would be

denied service because they can't from an outside area? >> congressman, one of the areas that the va does need work on is working on patients across our system. it is not aimless as it should be. >> when he fell overcoming went to the phoenix va. in his conviction was rated as urgent and he was unable to secure an appointment. is there any reason that someone would come to the emergency room at the va and see a doctor and be rated as urgent, and then be sent home for several months? >> i don't have an explanation for that.

>> what is the standard way time? >> ideally if the patient was considered to be urgent, it would depend upon this. >> action always solve the problem. after seven days, is there not a particular file or buzzer the goes up or red light that says oh, my gosh, this guy was urgent and it's been seven days. maybe someone should follow-up with a phone call? is there no system like that today? >> in phoenix i do not know. >> he was admitted initially because of love in his urination. it says that there were no tests that were done. is there any part away that somebody could come into an emergency room urinating blood

and a test be done? is that possible? >> i would find it unusual, but i don't know the specifics of the case. ..

if they they're weighing on the list that the pa would not be notified that somebody passed away? >> i think it would depend on where he passed away. the va now in phoenix does have an arrangement with maricopa county. they do receive a list of all patients who died in the county so that they can look at whether or not there were any veterans that were on that list. >> the va called a week later? that's a good reason to make sure that we know so that you are not upsetting the family that much further after they have waited several months to get a phonecall after their father passed away. i would add that mr. breen his comments to his family were i've got to go to the d.a.. that's where servicemen go. that is where we go. you serve your country you want to go to va.

i want a world-class system for abyei and i don't want to see any more lives lost in the process. >> i don't either congressman. >> mr. o'rourke you are recognized for five minutes. >> dr. lynch one of the important things i think you have made a commitment to this evening is in your words to restore trust in in the integrity of the data that we are receiving. good news received from the el paso va in march of this year veteran seeking new mental health care appointments weighted zero days which seems remarkable in exciting except for everything we are discussing today and their inability to trust what we are hearing. i already said earlier that we took it upon ourselves to conduct a scientific survey to find out what the facts were and how long veterans were really waiting in el paso. could the va not employ that same method and in phoenix el paso everywhere that you are

auditing results right now could there not be just this one time audit that ongoing a continuing survey of the veterans treating them as customers finding out about the quality they are experiencing and verifying their wait time as wait time is they experienced it against what the va said they waited? >> congressman one of the options we had been discussing internally is whether or not we could cover the veterans service organizations and use their members as an opportunity to identify the kind of service we are providing and where they are experiencing delays. i think there's an opportunity there that they -- that clearly needs to be explored further. >> i hope you will do that. another thing that struck me was you were talking about a failure within the va that resulted from elevating the performance measure into a goal which could possibly have led to the scandal in phoenix and other perhaps

other failures in other parts of the va. if the current performance measures are not working what are some recommendations that you have for how we measure performance at our vha system? >> don't get me wrong. i think we need to have performance measures. i think they need to be tools that help us understand our system and i think we need to focus on our primary goal which is are we seeing veterans, is our system growing, are we providing quality care? when those become the goals of the system then you cannot gain performance measures. performance measures become a tool. if you ignore them then you're actually hurting yourself as you are not growing your system like you're supposed to. as a director or an administrator you will fail. >> i also appreciate your commitment to do more to listen to providers and try to make

their jobs better and make the processes that they undertake more efficient. when we met with providers in el paso we heard stories about a doctor having to write a prescription to a veteran to be picked up to a bus station and taken to albuquerque. all of that could've been done by a frontline clerk but the processes and procedures within vha mandate that he does that which further depresses his morale and his ability to see the patience that he wants to take care of. i appreciate the commitment you have made their as well. >> if i can just comment quickly. i think va has a real opportunity as an educational institution to be able to recruit physicians who are familiar with our process and our electronic medical record. we have to assure during the course of that training that we have a system that has put

position friendly. we have to identify those things that are not position friendly that interfere with position effectiveness so we can effectively recruit those people who are training in our system who are familiar with her system. it's a huge opportunity. >> when i was running for this office in 2011 in 2012 unmet veteran after veteran who said they couldn't get in to see a mental health care provider for the entire year. they said all appointments have been booked for the entire year and they could not get him. it's hard for me to believe that it has since been confirmed by the data we have been able to obtain. when i got into office we asked for it -- we have been working with the local va to staff those up but let me get somebody and recruit them and bring them to el paso is difficult to retain them. they don't take as much within the system as they do within the dod as they do in the private sector. do you have enough resources from congress to hire and retain the providers that you need to provide the coverage in the care

that our veterans have earned? >> congressman if we don't i will be the first one to come back and let this committee know. >> you are saying you do today? >> i'm saying i don't have visibility right now on what we are going to need to staff our system appropriately so we can see veterans in a timely fashion. once i know that them once i know what our needs are i can assure you that i will advocate to assure that we have the necessary resources to hire those physicians. >> thank you. thank you mr. chairman. >> mr. huelskamp you are recognized for five minutes. >> thank you mischer chairman. to follow up on a few questions i asked tonight previous round. i appreciate my colleague from arizona referencing 19 reports. there are also 16 gal reports and this is nearly a decade. this is nearly a decade of excuses and i don't know if dr. lynch was there or

mr. rooney was there. he is fairly new but what i've heard today is there's no accountability for any one of these. throw it on the shelf amok start all over again. so 35 reports 10 years later almost a decade later and we are still here trying to get answers to the same questions asked in 2005. what i want to ask you today is a question i asked in march of 2013. i think dr. lynch was at that hearing. as far as the issue of accountability and holding your employees responsible for misconduct and gaming the system and that was back in 2005. i requested a list of those who had been punished censored and lost their bonuses. that has not been provided. i've been waiting since march 14 of 2013. when can i expect that report from your office? >> congressman i don't know where that report is. i would have to defer to ms. mooney. >> i'm sorry?

the date again? >> march 14, 2013. mr. sean hart was before the committee and made reference to gaming the system and asking questions on who would be punished and how would they be treated. meanwhile the bonuses continue. you realize the information we had, this is from a web site source and we can get it from your agency but in phoenix in $843,000 worth of bonuses so wasn't just the director. that was over to your period. my question while we haven't received yet is the listing of those who lost their bonuses for failures in the system. who are we going to hold accountable? it's easy for you to stand up here, maybe not easy to say the buck kind of stops here but maybe it doesn't all but the buck stops at and made the decision, the director in phoenix. my question is where do i get that report answered before we worry about what just came out? >> congressman i will work to get an answer to your question.

>> how soon will they get an answer given march 14, 2013 still waiting to know how the secretary of the va is going to hold employees accountable and responsible for it i think are criminal violations? >> i will work to get that information for you. >> a last thing mr. chairman and this line of questioning trying to hide -- identify how many waiting lists are at all va facilities facilities and if understood dr. lynch every facility has a near tracking report? >> every facility receives a near report. a rolling up ameriquest. >> every va facility is a schedule an appointment consult as well? >> that may be unique to facilities. that is not probably universal across va. that is a tool which can be used and there are screenshot paper

printouts which are not reports that there are 400 veterans hiding in our system and again the clerk and these veterans 1700 folks hidden on the secret waiting list could be at any va clinic or continue to be at risk of being lost or forgotten. as a result these veterans may never obtain the requested or required primary care appointment. if i understood correctly from the report in your testimony is the secret waiting lists could be at every va facility in the country. is that correct? >> congressman i don't think they were secret. >> how did you not find an dr. lynch? >> i did find them congressman. see you told me didn't look at this list. >> i told you he didn't document the numbers. we were unaware of the process. >> white. >> why didn't you report to the press and mr. shinseki and the president as they said there

were 1100 veterans waiting for care on that list? did you tell anybody? you waited 35 days that you care for veterans and they waited on a list languishing. >> congressman i was focused on trying to improve the process. >> you knew about these veterans that were waiting for care? >> i had identified the number of veterans and move forward quickly. >> did you try to do anything to get care for these 1100 veterans waiting? some of them might of anomalous that died. >> congressman identify the processes. >> yes are no did you do anything for those 1100 veterans? >> congressman i put in place in understanding the process which allowed us to. >> i think that's your answer and i yield back mr. chair. >> mr. walsh you are recognized for five minutes. >> thank you mr. chairman. members of congress are channeling the american public as mr. cook said.

it's on people's minds. we showed you the commitment to getting this right is there and finding solutions and i appreciate that statement dr. lynch that this is about establishing and maintaining the good parts and the important parts in the critical parts of world-class health care system and trying to reestablish that sense of trust. it's also incumbent upon us to understand how things work and how the system works and understand the position you were in and where your ad. i think it's important to point out there are people that failed our veterans horribly. there are people that fail the secretary of. i do think it's important and i would note mr. huff is not a political appointee. he's a civilian civil servant and he's a veteran and i'm not sure why you're here mr. hoff but i appreciate you coming here and standing in and being willing to answer the questions. i think as we go through this painting with a broad generalized brush is not going to be helpful but this desired to hold accountable it's not

personal in terms of personally trying to damage someone. it's personal but the care for those veterans in its personal about this believe that if someone cannot be held accountable for such egregious dereliction of their duty how can we expect ford for it to get better? so i hope and i would ask him and i think the statement is coming through on this that yes we need the data and yes we don't need to jump to conclusions and yes people deserve due process. the veterans on the list that mr. huelskamp was talking about trying to get that right i would suggest are put forward i think one of the things i think we are going to find out in this is that why it's a large system there are distinct differences in sight of business and insight of institutions. i would put forward to you if we went out several weeks ago to the minneapolis va i went with the leaders of our veterans service organizations and is director briefed us we did the

audit you are talking about. they produce the numbers we are talking about and then i asked them and told them we are going to produce as for the present a courageous decision was made by the director to release that data and put it out there. so what you had happened was that you have this audit and it vso's who by the way held officers inside that medical center. these leaders were there and you know what else they do on a weekly basis? they meet with the director. they are good the consumer advisory board that meets with the director so many of them were saying i don't know and we will still find out that i don't don't think wouldn't be surprised if there was a collaboration and cooperation and it was released to the press. guess what happened? a belief amongst the press and an outpouring of people saying yeah their failing on that. audiology is too long and people are waiting too long for their hearing aids. primary care is pretty good here not so good here but we have an honest accounting and do you know what the public said?

at least now we know where things are at now let's find solutions. by not getting that data and having that collaboration by not having that cooperation by not pulling in the partners you want to help you it creates the frustrations here so i can't go back enough again. i will not allow people to paint the system with the generalized brush because i know the high-quality of care care. i know factions lives are depending on it being open but i also will not sit back and allow you or anyone else to let the system disintegrate because we are unwilling to answer some of these questions. when mr. huelskamp asked is not in reasonable and what others are asking and i don't know why they and i get it everyone deserves their due process that there is such a desire on this, this ends up looking like protecting the bad actors in a camp he healthy for you. it can't be in the question that i got asked if i'd know i'm an

enlisted guy. we know where this is going. they are pulling your down and pulling the system down. the bad actors are doing this. we have got to hammer this. we have got to hammer it now. we can't wait this long. we know what's out there. i am baffled that some people have not stood up and said we were doing it wrong. this is the way it is. this is not about a pound of flesh for the sake of firing somebody. it's about that we have to have this truth commission. it's a statement and i want to make clear mr. huff you do not deserve to be treated in that way. none of you do at this stage but it doesn't mean that someone is not going to have to say yes it's me let's go forward. dr. lynch you summed it up. it is too important of a mission to fail and i yield back. >> thank you. dr. when struck for five minutes. >> thank you mr. chairman. i do believe the va is a better place for veterans to be where

they are around those that have similar problems whether it's reactions from agent orange and tbi in tbs. we i heard an expression for the first time a couple of weeks ago and i think it's probably true. if you have seen one va you have seen one va and they are all very different very that's a problem we have within our system. dr. lynch i know you have been a provider. have you ever been in private practice? >> i've been an academic practice. >> that was of the same thing i asked at one point. it seems at the administrative level we have a lot of people who have never been in private practice which is a different model which is driving to see more patience as we alluded to before and to do it efficiently and you would let people wait because you need to get them into your practice. that's why you keep your doors open.

that is what we need to look at. i'm a new member and i wanted to be part of the solution. and met with general shinseki three times and offered every time to go into the va to go into the hospitals and the awards and the clinics and say how can we do things better? it's another government-run system if you will and there are a lot of things that have been referred to tonight where you are doing stuff that a physician shouldn't have to be doing because it takes away from actually seeing patients. again it gets to that problem of getting the patients into the door. the ig referred last week to it this week put more money into more bureaucracy and more bureaucracy in him or care being given that's a problem we need to address. one of my question is are we really looking at physician driven policies? are we getting bureaucrats

driving the policies or physicians driving the policies? i have two partners in my private tracks as orthopedic surgeons. they go to be able twice a month and they say i do two surgeries in the time in my private practice i do six to eight. that's a problem that's a problem we have to face in your hearing more stories like that. are we letting the physicians drive policies over the bureaucrats drive the policies? the congressman my hope we are seeing more physicians in the leadership roles. i made that decision three or four years ago that i thought it was a good move to get further education to learn more about management and to try to be a physician who provides physician input into management. i think it is important. i think you make good points. i think our physicians can work more efficiently. i think in fact it's much easier to hire support personnel than to hire position. >> exactly and those are your physician extenders that allow you to do more. seattle think we have taken advantage of that model at the

va as effectively as we could. >> you want to talk about concern on this committee therefore doctors on this committee bipartisan and we met separately with dr. jesse and dr. egger walked to discuss how we are evaluating efficiency and nowhere in there was it how many patients on the average is a specialist seeing an eight hour. matter. what you're measuring? if you are not looking at numbers so in our private practice if one doctor is seeing 60 patients and others sing 30 we are taking a look at what's going on in that situation and how we can make it better. there's nothing within the system that drives that and that's one of the things we have got to change if we are going to provide access to care. >> part of that new productivity model does involve measuring measuring productivity. i think we are moving in that

direction. >> i direction. ca thinks a too. it was a productive meeting and it was off the record where we just had a frank conversation as providers and trying to solve troubles. i will leave it at that. we are going to continue those conversations. >> i look forward to continuing the discussions. i think we do have a lot to learn from the private sector. i think we can learn and make a better system and still preserve va care for veterans. >> i hope so. i want to ask one of the thing and i was wondering if we could be provided with the legal memo that articulates the reasoning for the general counsel to conclude that withheld documents are privileged and that memo could be redacted and they would just like to see some justification or precedence in this situation. is that possible to get a legal memo on that? >> i will take your request to the general counsel sir. >> thank you. >> i think there's an assistant general counsel in the room.

could we get an answer from that individual? there is nobody here from -- i'm sorry sir could you step toward an identifier self? >> richard deputy general counsel for legal policy. >> thank you. dr. wenstrup would you ask your question again and? >> general counsel to conclude that withheld documents are privileged and that memo can be reconnected and we would just like to see some justification that precedent here. >> yes, we will do that. >> thank you ensor while you are here can you find out why mr. huff's notes were not delivered to the committee has requested in the subpoena?

>> yes, i will check into that. >> thank you very much. >> thank you mr. chairman. at a quick question for dr. lynch and miss many. based on data in the inspector general report you believe there's a need for criminal investigation? >> i think the inspector general will make that recommendation. i believe based on their findings they have the ability to initiate a criminal investigation if they think it's appropriate. >> do you concur with their findings? >> we work with the ig. i respect their opinions. i respect their reports and i think if they feel there is criminal cause then we need to respect that judgment and let the process followed through. >> miss many? >> i would concur with dr. lynch >> mr. jolly you are recognized for five minutes. >> i want to associate my remarks with those of mr. walls.

i think you're hearing tonight a frustration of the members here because we do have an article i authority to ask the questions but our frustration is rooted in the fact that while we conduct the necessary oversight as part of our article i responsibility we continue to hear the weightless and know that there are weightless. and we are held accountable for that from our constituents. it's not really a remarkable process that our constituents hold us responsible for weightless creative type the administration. that's probably fair because we have to execute our responsibility. we have the privilege of living outside the beltway and working inside the beltway so we do hear stories from within our own community that are personal. we hear of delays in medical care. i had a gold star mamba came up

to me on memorial day. she believes that her son took his life because of a the lack of timely mental health care and that's a real story within our community. that is the frustration because while we have to provide the oversight and get to the bottom of it all of this is occurring while there is still a wait list my message is very simple and i mean it constructively. we need to clear the weightless. we will get to the bottom of how we got here at the american people and the people in my community are more concerned with the fact that a wait list exists than how we got here. ultimately that is the responsibility and the fix that we have to rely on the administration for and we have to rely on the president for his leadership. i'm asking for his leadership on this. it is not political. when he spoke last week he spoke of the investigations into how

he got here. he spoke as sending mr. neighbors to arizona and all that is well but he didn't speak to clearing the weightless and on behalf of all of us and on behalf of the administration i think we need tangible measures to restore the crisis in confidence in the american people that's been created by the notion of a weightless at there sometime the care provided by the va. that's the issue need to hear address. dr. lynch i'm pleased to hear that there is a plan in place over the next 48 hours to get to the bottom of it that i think the american people need to know that. my only question is this. when you take back to the secretary and frankly it the present of the united states a plea from this member of congress to please hold a second press conference on this issue to talk about how the department is going to immediately clear the wait list what we have been

engaged in the long-term institutional reforms that are required to ensure this never happens again. that's my only question for you. >> i can certainly carry that back to the secretary. i don't know whether i have access to the president that i think i can get the message across. i think the major point i think it's an important one. i think we need to get out ahead of this and say we are doing something about this that we are all where of it them we do have a process to resolve the problems that we see and to move forward with it that are va health care system. >> i appreciate the response that i mean this with the utmost respect. i don't mean as politically but this does need to go to the president of united states and here's why. when he held his press conference he took credit for having made reforming the va at top priority when he ran for senate and again when he ran for president last week in this press conference he took credit for the reforms at va that he was responsible for. he's going to take credit for those reforms he needs to lead

on this issue. it's not political. he needs to lead on this issue and i'm asking for his leadership on this issue and i can tell you people within my district and i know communities across the country are asking for that leadership. i for one will rally behind him the moment i see it because it's not a partisan issue. i yield back great thank you. >> thank you in the final question mr. -- ms. brownley you are recognized for five minutes. >> thank you to chairman and i want to thank you and the ranking member for putting together this important hearing. i'm sorry that i missed a portion of it. i had an amendment on the floor and was trying to deal with that but you know i want to echo what mr. jolly just said. i think i also my constituents in my veterans of my community also are saying they are not so concerned about how we got there right at this moment that they want to resolve this issue in terms of getting a timely

response and making sure their health care needs both physical and mental health care needs are taken care of. we have to figure out the long-term problems with that question. the one question that i wanted to conclude on is that i'm happy that we are going to do a national audit. i want to understand what that includes. does it include my district? does it go down to that level. >> it's my understanding that they audit has now been extended to all va health care facilities. >> very good. very good. if the va could provide us with a timeline of every single facility and when this object is going to take place and when it will be completed and what are the results of that so we have a

timeline that we can report back to our districts on but that we can also monitor and watch to make sure that we are covering every single facility across the country. phoenix has brought a lot to our attention but i'm concerned about so many other facilities across the country. if i could get your commitment today that you will provide us with that information i would be very appreciative. >> i will do my best to get you that information. i think it is available. i think our process has been well tracked and i think we should be able to basically show you when each facility was audited when the report is finished to give you information about the audits in each of our facilities. >> thank you very much and i yield back. yes i would yield. >> a follow-up on a question that you responded to dock or row as far as performance and

metrics. did i understand it that the different positions at the ones that do their own performance and how they evaluate? >> the network directors established the performance measures for the medical center. the deputy for operations and management establishes the performance measurements for the network directors. >> but are they different in different networks? >> i believe there are some performance measures that are standardized across the system. there is some flexibility to introduce performance standards that may relate specifically to the network or the facility. >> i wish you would look at that because what concerns me is the different networks have different performance measures. i don't know why they would be different because my big concern is i know when the american legion went to baltimore facility when they were doing the system they questioned how the veterans benefit

administration was dealing with claims that the baltimore facility. the response that the american legion told me from the staff of the baltimore facility was there was a va way of doing things and then there was the baltimore way of doing things and we are doing it the baltimore baltimore way of thing so that's a concern i have. even though the secretary might say this is the way it is systemwide you have different regions doing things differently because if that's that's the way the allies done that and he gets back to the metrics performance measures of how we hold employees accountable he -- accountable. that definitely has to be looked at as what is the performance measure and metric and if it's good for one reason why is it for another? >> regions and facilities may be different so in some cases there may be a necessity to have some flexibility in signing performance measures based on

what you need to achieve at that facility. >> thank you and i yield back. >> i thought i was supposed to yield back. >> i yield back to you. >> i yield back. >> do you have any further statements? ladies and gentlemen thank you for being here tonight and thank you for your interest. thank you for appearing. it goes without saying the subpoena will not be served. thank you for coming here tonight. this hearing is adjourned. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]

[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]

>> one of the stories that resonated with me was the moment when they are dithering about whether or not they need to inject seawater into unit one and it's a matter of the clock is ticking and they are just about down to the wire.

the plant superintendent who in the end would have to make the final call knows it's desperate they beat to get water in there quickly. meanwhile everybody wants a say and the tepco officials and japanese government officials are hemming and hawing and yoshida gets an order from one of his supervisors at tepco that the government hasn't signed off on it yet and he's going to hold off. he's already started and so he basically calls one of his staff people over and says okay i'm going to be giving an order but ignore it. he very loudly proclaims so everybody in tokyo can hear to hault the seawater injection. and to me that was a human element in that story and which in japan where it's knowing the rules and acting on your own is

not reported. here was a moment where a guide knew that if he didn't act things would go even worse than they were going. author maya angelou died at the age of 86 in her home of winston-salem north carolina. she was the recipient of the pulitzer prize for national

medal of arts, three grammy awards and the presidential medal of freedom. in 2002 she spoke at the "l.a. times" book festival about her memoir, a song flung up to heaven. this is an hour. [applause] >> our next author is a poet author and activist teacher director who was raised in arkansas and learned early in her life of the healing power of language. literature and recitation. more than 30 years ago she published "i know why the caged bird sings" the first in a series of memoirs that has become unique in american lecher and that is established her as one of the geniuses of afro-american autobiography. she has been nominated for a

pulitzer prize and the national book award. she has written three children's books five poetry collection special poems for the 50th anniversary of united nations in the memorable on the pulse of the morning which he read as an inaugural poet for president bill clinton. [applause] her new book is called a song flung up to heaven and it opens as she is returning from africa to the u.s. to work without the max. it moves through the shocking news that his assassination the watts riots in the beginnings of a partnership with martin luther king jr.. joining her is a superb michael silberblatt. posted the nationally syndicated public radio program kcrw. ladies and gentlemen it's a privilege to welcome to our stage michael silberblatt and the incomparable dr. maya angelou.

[applause] >> thank you everybody. >> thank you. thank you. [applause] we will be talking for around the half an hour after which there'll be around 15 minutes for questions. if you have questions there will be a mic in the aisle. i know it may be hard to find that i'll which is just an indication of how important our guest is. dr. angela you have said that what concerns you is autobiography it as a art form and as a literary form and i wonder what he meant by that. >> well autobiography is my favorite form. on the other hand i'm extremely fickle so when we start talking

about poetry i'm going to say that's my favorite form and i mean it. i have known from mr. frederick douglass the importance of autobiography of a memoir because mr. douglas used the first person singular to talk about the third person about we, about us. he was able to say i stood on the burning deck. i stood on the slave ship ocean. i broke my back. i took the lash. meaning that i is a human being can speak for human beings. and when i really began working on caged bird at first i thought

i would write a book about what it was like to grow up as a black girl. and i found it was so difficult to write it well that i had better in large my reason. so i chose to write it. it was so difficult i thought i had better get somebody else in here so i decided to write it for white girls. [laughter] and then i thought i better get it figured them out so i decided to write it for wide voice and abrasions and spanish speaking in native american and allie utes because it's different -- difficult to grow. most people don't. of. [laughter] they don't. they get older. they find parking spaces and say now i'm grown up. but that's not true. to grow up as difficult as it means one takes responsibility

for the time one takes up in into space one occupies. that is to grow up and to keep laughing spitting into the wind. indeed. so i thought i had better write about what it's like. so i used the i meaning we. this is what human beings go through. this is what knocks us down makes us fumble, fall and somehow miraculously rise. somehow rise and everybody here, every human being anywhere has had a night of fear or terror or loss or pain or grief or disappointment and yet miraculously each one who has awakened has awakened, arisen

and then seen other human beings instead good morning how are you? fine thanks, and you? [laughter] that is what we are alike. so that is why the form continued to drop me and pull me and i did my best to have an impact on the forum so that younger writers coming along writing autobiography might be encouraged to tell the truth. don't tell everything you know that made sure what you do say is the truth. if it is a human truth and an african-american woman's human truth it is an asian woman's human truth in shanghai or in tokyo kyoto. it's an italian man's truth in

rome. if i tell the truth you see so that's intriguing. and then to write well. not to mention that. >> tell me, listening to your cadences as he speak they are the cadences of a poet and also of a preacher. where did you learn to speak like that? >> i was a mute for six years of my life. i was raped when i was seven and i told the name of the rapist to the family. the man was put in jail for one day and released. and about four days later the police came to my maternal

grandmother's house and told her that the man had been found dead and it seemed he had been kicked to death. my 7-year-old logic told me that my voice had killed the man and i had a dangerous weapon. so it was better not to speak. i thought my voice might just go out and kill anybody, anybody you heard it or heard of it varies so i stopped speaking for six years. but i listened. i thought of my whole body is in here. i thought i could just go into a room and absorb sound just by osmosis take it in. so i listened carefully and because of that it's my blessing

to speak a number of languages because i listen. i don't speak anything perfectly [laughter] and i speak no other language as well as english as i speak english because i learned it at parents meetings and while crawling on the floor. i have spoken. i have been a translator in yugoslavia and i took a course in cinematography in sweden. swedish in the winter, wrong, wrong. [laughter] because they listen to the human voice. i have never heard of voice i didn't like. i heard things of voice said meaning content of the speech but the voice, i love the way we sound.

i love that. [laughter] and there's a language in south africa. there are three sounds nontonal. one is axe, one is q and one is c. i love that. i said how did you do that? [laughter] so there is about what meir does for me is it picks out the melody. that is what great mimics do, mines and people like them who can do voices and make you think think -- billy crystal, he

becomes mohamed ali. from listening so carefully you see? >> that the cadences and the rhythms. >> i love the southern black baptist preachers melodies. i do love it and i grew up on king james version of the bible. so when the black preacher says brothers and sisters -- [laughter] [applause] >> as they say in london it makes me be, all a quiver. >> this is the first book the new book a song flung up to heaven that you wrote without having your brother there are to read and talk to you about. what was it that he brought to

the reading experience that was so valuable for you? >> well my brother bailey was the only genius in my family. or my family came the closest to making a genius when they made daily and at the sister friend here m.j. hewitt who would act me up on that. i think well and i work very hard but daily at 16, i was 14. he introduced me to thomas wolf kenneth patchen the poet. jonathan west. not jonathan swift. i had read swift but he introduced me to modern writers. nathaniel west. philip wylie.

at 16. we had just come from arkansas from a village smaller than this space right here. [laughter] and how did this black boy from a little village in arkansas know about these writers, the poets kenneth patchen him? i would say i can't comprehend that. i was so used to reading the books that were thrown away by the white schools in arkansas. i was still lacking the book to read and now dear reader. [laughter] and he would say now go back to page 75. you see the point has been made. he introduced me to virginia with. he said now you see this. >> what she was saying here. and he loves me. he loves me.

so he was my savior. he was my savior. my physical savior, human savior. i was 6 feet and my brother at his tallest was 5 feet 4 inches. he was my big brother. i did make the mistake when we were teenagers. i was 14 and he came to my room. we had moved back from the south to san francisco and he knocked at the door and asked me a question. i didn't like the way he asked it so i spat on him. that void with timmy down the hall all down the back steps all the way to the yard and my hair was long and huge. he took a hair and put it in the

fish pond. he said i'm your big rather. say it. [laughter] so i never again had trouble with short people. [laughter] i think i married a couple. [laughter] if it didn't bother the men it certainly didn't bother me. but he was all of that. he was just bright and funny and my supporter. with everything i've written he is like bob loomis. rob loomis was my editor for 33 years. we were an item and publishing because i would go to university press of bob went there. bob loomis and bailey held my

hand figure to the aid when i would try to enchant myself back to the time to remember so well that at a 14-year-old lloyd in the bronx could read it and say i was there. to write it. so suppose i get stuck back there in the memory and the enchantment. the only person i knew who was bold enough and left me and asked to come and get me was my brother. inviting this book which was the most difficult of all the books. it was the most difficult. my brother died. and i didn't know if i dared

running into a burning building. but i did and i have that memory i have told him in one of the books entitled elite old wind when great trees fall. the one thing -- i use it a lot and it's used in a number of going home ceremonies and funeral ceremonies. it says in effect, at least i had him. he was here. i am better for it and i can be because i had him so that's a blessing. >> dr. angelou as you read the

autobiographies book by book i am sure many of you have. that's one of the great pleasures. what other writer can you think of who would attract a crowd that size most of whom have read not just some of the books but all of them. very impressive. one meets the cast of our century really. one meets james baldwin. one needs billie holliday, martin luther king, malcolm x. >> francis william. >> francis william is a favorite of mine. she took me into her home and showed me her back yard theater and a place that she built writing workshops and she taught me what a person who believes in art does for the community and it is a community project. also i'm thrilled to find paul marshall who is one of my favorite writers. how important do you think it is

for a young writer to be familiar with, to work with the minds of his or her time? >> i think it's important. i think the writer must always be founded in the language in which he is working. so it is wise to have a foundation in the great writers of yesteryear. the writer should be familiar with the english writers, and with the translations of dostoyevsky and balzac. read the writers who write in

english a certain language. in america willie soyinka the nigerian nobel prize winner red are taught via paz. i would dance if my knee wasn't giving me trouble. [laughter] a japanese writer. read how the language sounds. listen to the language. read singer. listen to the language sound out of this year and out of that mouth. so if one is reading save broth, philip roth or james baldwin the

melodies are a little different, so you should read. ..

he. >> i have had the pleasure of having a writer who has been on my radio show and that is also your son. >> yes. >> and i was truly delighted. i don't know if you know

standing there that i truly think that it's one of the most enjoyable adventure novels and it is quite an amazing book. i mean, he's got a huge imagination and i wonder. >> i taught him so much. i taught her to poetry and i taught him, i don't know how i knew since he was born to me when i was very young, i taught him that there was a place inside the of which he must keep christine and no mother or father or lover, nobody had the right to answer that and it may be the place that you go to when you go to me god, if you ask. and so that gave him a sense of independence and the sense of

himself and so i had to give him a responsibility that we had $200 and we had these bills. so what do you think that we should do? and i said, you may go into your room and think about it. and so he wouldn't know that i had left him no outs, of course, that he did say mom, i'm ready to talk now. and i would explain that on this. and so he would then tell me that i think we should pay the rent. well, very dead. [laughter] and so he had a sense of himself that he belonged in that he was not a tagalong and he was a part of this family. and that did not always work so well remain and one time i met a

south african freedom fighter who was an attorney in south africa who escaped, although he was an attorney, his father would call him and he would say, father, he would never say yes, sir. and so i married him and brought this 15-year-old who was already a 15-year-old. >> so i brought him in and my husband would say to him, now, i want you to be in the house at 9:00 o'clock and he would sit down and say why. but i had told him that he had the right question and i have the responsibility to explain it to him. he then had the right to try to

persuade me, but if he didn't, he had to go buy my rule and i had the last say. and so this south african man miami project at the florida hospital down there. jackson memorial.

and i had been there, his wife and his son had been there, and i have gone back to north carolina when you call me a couple of weeks later and he asked me, mom, do you remember the poem, and i said, of course. but as soon as he asked me i remembered teaching it to him when he was about eight years old and this little black kid walking around and i was just saying that, when he asked me this. and i said yes. so i said out of the night, black is a pit from pole to pole and i think whatever this may be for my unconquerable soul. and my son said thank you, you forgot a word.

[laughter] >> so i knew that this is what he told me. and then he asked if we could do this together and i said yes. and he said so. so we did the four verses. and he said thank you, they just finished taking a 100 stitches out of my back. and so i encouraged it, especially middle-aged and old people. and we should memorize some ponds, i had inside yourself so that in case your laptop as a working you can pull it up. you need to know, for instant,

the poem by edna vinson now picture this woman, and the vinson who was very popular and she was a recluse in a one wonderful woman and she said that is all i will do for death. and he has business this morning, business in and the balkans, but he must now buy himself and i will not give him a leg up, i will die, but that is all i will do for death.

with this on my chest i will not tell him where this lies hidden in this one. the keys in key is in the plans to the city are safe with me. and through me he will never be overthrown, but that is all i will do for death. so look at that, you know you need it. you need that. >> a final question for me and then we will turn to the audience and this is the book and the poem that you wrote that is reprinted, we are now on the 10th anniversary of another riot, one does not have the effect on the country and consciousness that some of them

have. so what do you feel about the movement now reign. >> it is hard to say the effects that anything has on anything. it may be long in its incubus and it may belong in incubation in this way. but i think that rodney king, the uprising that has had an effect and there are people who keep cameras with them in their cars now, people in new jersey, folks in arkansas, people in michigan, arizona. and it is a wonderful protection

and people say oh, i didn't mean that. and so i don't know. i just don't know. and our lives are just so short and we can't really see the effect of things. and we are the newest group made. we just climbed out of this and some say that we are still in it. but we are a cadaverous group which has decided not to eat our brothers and sisters. [laughter] but to accord them some right and to try to love them, whatever that ministry is. so here we are following, sometimes rising, going on in

here we are. able to forgive ourselves sometimes and forgive others as well every now and again. so here we are, we are still here and that is the important thing, still here, each of us we still have time to change and be better and each one of us, yes, that is amazing. and here we are and we are still here. so i don't know the effect that one kind word can have to a stranger. anyone any one of us can see a stranger in the street who may not be our color and may not eat the same foods and still see

someone and say good morning, how are you and keep on going. you have no idea. and you may have just started world war iii. and you have no idea what that person might have been going to do. she may have been headed from there and some may say i like that jacket you're wearing, that is nice. let me call her and there are some obvious impacts and that's the real ones that have been in the hotter. >> thank you very much. >> thank you. thank you.

>> thank you. >> thank you very much. >> thank you. >> will the person who has the microphone make him or herself visible? how does this work? okay, right over here. okay. >> hello, it is nice to meet you. i just want to know how do you know when you finish a home or any piece of art that you do, and have you ever thought back to what you have done and thought maybe it wasn't finish but it was published already? >> yes, many times.

i have 21 books, and each one i could do better. whenever i look at one open, i think, okay, and it really is a wonderful side somehow and now you can continue to write and so you have to be in tune again with the language. and that is my best right now on the moment. >> hello, my name is barbara and we have this and i wonder would

you recite that for us? >> for mr. mandela. >> okay. >> yes, i know i don't have it. in a couple of weeks. we are ancient friends. thank you so much we have a festival in wales and he has been asked that i speak at this and i will. >> i promise you. >> thank you.

>> i just wanted to tell you that i am so inspired by you and you are such an inspiring woman. and i just want to ask you, where do you get your inspiration? >> yes, you are a student in san diego? >> no, i just graduated from the university of michigan. >> i'm trying to be a christian. i'm trying to be a christian in no small matter and that is something that is always amazing, and i think, already? and i'm working on it. it's like trying to be a buddhist orations list and i use

the teaching and the heroes and those of the world to encourage me. so i read everybody all the time. and i go in to any church that i want to. and any temple that i want to. i go in and sit and listen far from inspiration. and then i talk to people like the gentleman who loves this language and i talked to folks who really appreciate hearing beatings and being alive and being responsible. i speak and listen and talk any notice that i talk and talk. and i'm making up for the six years. so thank you.

>> i know that the title of the caged bird, both of them coming from the same poem. could you tell me the name of the poem? two estimate of homeless or in 1892 by my favorite poet and it was an african-american poet and one of the greats of the 19th century and the poem is called sympathy. and i will say it, if it is okay. >> please. >> i know what the caged bird feels when the sun is bright on the upland slopes when the wind blows soft through the spring grass and the river flows like a sheet of glass when the first

bird sings outside. in the first bud opens and i know what the caged bird feels. and i know why he beats his wings until his blood is red and he must fly back to his purge and the blood still exist in the old scar and i know why the caged bird sings and i know why he beats his wings when its wings are bruised and its bosom sore it would be free and it's not a peril of joy or glee but

it sings from its deep core and flees upward to with you and you asking me that question. it puts my mind to be racing and i wonder about what it is like to be your age. what is it like to be 13 years

old in california. with a male personality, dark glasses. what is it like to love poetry, because obviously you do. and what do you feel like inside that person. there is a poem right there. i would make it up and i would write something close to you. thank you. >> i would like to ask how you started writing poems? >> thank you. i started writing when i was reading about nine years old. some of the worst poetry east of the rockies, i suppose, but i

read edgar allan poe and i loved this and i adored georgia douglas johnson, a 19th century black lady poet and i love shakespeare. i love this on its and i memorized 60 of them. i loved them and i was trying to communicate and i couldn't speak and i wouldn't speak and so the pen and i begin our 65-year-old relationship.

>> thank you. >> good afternoon, doctor. me and my friends were wondering if you can recite your poem that is very inspirational to us and it will just give us what we need to continue on the quest of school and everything. >> all right, i will do it. thank you for asking. >> okay, yes, ma'am? >> hello, i am an eighth-grade english teacher. >> thank you. thank you. >> i teach poetry and i just wanted some advice or dial-up poetry and i try to get that across to mice events. but from one teacher to another, is there a way? i try to improve teaching throughout the year and i never feel like i do it justice.

do you have any words? >> yes. first in wanting to do it, it is a long way toward the success of a and even having it do, that is a great lesson. and there are some things and first i will say it what not to do. some poets recite and some are just really pretty bad. [laughter] i see the memorial for langston hughes, they said that they were the only members of an organization they had founded to keep langston hughes from doing his own poetry. [laughter] for us because he did it poorly and also he would do it for free. and so they were making a living reciting his poetry.

so i would encourage you to listen to as many recorded tapes or cds as possible and break the poem down. that helps. and i know the value of poetry. it just works. if you can get them to appreciate the raven and all that excitement in time, then they might listen to in the belly or they might listen to the bells, the wonderful velvet i don't recite because you really need bells going off and i would encourage that. get some modern poets and listen

to some of the non-profane and non-bulbar rap songs. listen to them because they know them. all of her students do. and i don't understand him, but they will. and continue, please. thank you. >> this will be the beginning of the signing. and doctor angelo has given her time very history and she has agreed to recite the poem and then we will move on to the signing. but i want to thank you and i want to thank all of you for having come here. [applause] >> and i want to tell you that i did not know how profound and significant the presence i have

found u.n. would make. >> thank you. >> let me join you. i need to ask this. it is a ridiculous question in this format and i would like to know. i am an eighth-grade english teacher and i work in the inner city and 80% of my students just are indifferent to learning in reality. and i know this is ridiculous to ask this here, but do you have any advice for me? >> yes, thank you so much. it is a serious question and i thank you very much and i

apologize to the lady, where are you? stand out. i'm going to take your questions. and let me finish this, it is important. i want you to read this new book of mine let me tell you why. because i went to watch this and i noticed then the lack of hope in people's faces, young men's faces in particular and young women's faces and young black children's faces in particular. you see there is no hope, you say go to school and get a job, but you can't get a job and you went to school and you say i could fit in, but you've been nice and you don't fit in.

and you say don't use drugs and it'll be better, but you are no better. you don't use drugs. and so you see, what happens with the fundamental element is a hopelessness if you say that you understand this,, there is a way out. and you cannot say give me some of yourself and then not do it. so you have to free the brain and you have to have as much information as possible put it in here, all of it. all knowledge, please say this. all knowledge is expendable

currency depending upon the market. okay, thank you so much for the questions. [applause] and i apologize to you. >> thank you so much for taking that question. and i just want to say that i am from arkansas, my whole family is from arkansas. i have my hands and cousins and grandfather and we all read your book and we all said we know that please and they promised and i promised them that i would tell you that and i wanted to ask you if you have ever gone back to visit. >> you very much, yes. you soon it was your family name? >> butler.

>> yes, i have gone back and i was back about three years ago and my grandmother, her property had been taken down. but i meant to leave it out after my grandmother died so for $15 a month it was rented out to an evangelical group and then the timed comes and they got very happy. and there were people there of substance and size and they shouted the floor out about every two months. so that is why they were talking about. so i'm hoping to put up a community center there on that site. so thank you so much. >> thank you. i'm going to do it on.

>> thank you. >> she is going to recite the poem. >> i promised the young lady i would do the poem. so this is for each one of us. you may write me down in history with your bitter twisted lies. you may trod me in the very dirt, but still like dust i rise. does my sassiness upset you, why are you as that was going? this because i walked as if i have oil wells pumping in my living room. just like suns and moons with the certainty of time and tide, just like hope springing high, still i rise. did you want to see me broken?

bowed head and lowered eyes and shoulders falling down like teardrops, weakened by my soulful cries? does my hardiness upset you? don't take it so hard because i laugh. as if i have gold mines digging in my own backyard. you can shoot me with your words and you can kick me with your lies and you can kill me with your hatefulness, but just like life, i will rise. does my sexy this offend you? does it come as a surprise that i dance. [laughter] >> as if i had diamonds at the meeting of my thighs. out of the huts of history and shame i rise, up from a past i rise with a black ocean leaping and wide, swelling and i bear in

the tide. leaving behind nights of terror and fear i rise. into a daybreak made miraculously clear i rise. bringing the gifts that my ancestors gave, i am the hope and dream of the slave. and so there i go rising. thank you. [applause] [applause] >> thank you, doctor angelo. thank you. >> of course she would not be able to sign every buck. she consigned son.

but we have an address where you can mail your books and she will sign it and mail it back. so this is your mission and get your pen and paper ready. >> tomorrow night on c-span2, more booktv in prime time with books about afghanistan. at 8:30 p.m., the author of the book warlords and the state of afghanistan. at 10:00 o'clock, author of the wrong enemy of and then author of american spartan. booktv in prime time here on c-span2. >> one of the stories that resonated with me was the moment

when they are dithering about whether or not they need to inject sea water and it's a matter of the clock ticking and they are just about down to the wire and i think the plant superintendent, who in the end would have to make the final call, he knows it's desperate and so meanwhile everyone wants a say, the japanese government officials are hemming and hawing and they get an order for one of the supervisors they are that the government hasn't signed off on this yet and he's already started. and so he basically calls one of his staff people over and says i am going to give in order, but

ignore it. so he loudly proclaims this and so to me that was, that was a human element in that story in which in japan where they are ignoring the rules, here was a moment where a guy knew that if he didn't act, things would go even worse than they were going. >> more about this nominee and resulting meltdown at the fukushima powerplant saturday night at 10:00 a.m. eastern on "after words." part of booktv this weekend on c-span2. >> c-span's new book includes author malcolm gladwell. >> when you write, you don't write with this kind of way. in other words you shouldn't

think about that issue at all when you sit down to write and what you should sit down to do is to write what you find interesting and to follow your own curiosity. so i can honestly say that i never for a moment try to imagine how well that book would sell and i thought i was -- i just wanted to write something cool. i was interested and i wanted to write something that my friends would read that my mother would like. >> read more of our conversation with malcolm gladwell and other featured interviews from our book note and other programs sundays at 8:00 p.m. now available for father's day gift at your favorite bookseller. >> at this year's annapolis book festival, three authors of books about guns debating gun control laws. the panel includes emily miller,

author of emily gets her gun and daniel webster, editor of the book reducing gun violence in america and craig whitney, author of living with guns, a liberal's case for the second amendment. this is 50 minutes. >> we have quite the panel of authors who come at this important topic from different perspectives and i am a staff writer with bloomberg business week magazine and the author of a book called the rise of america's gun, which is a who biography of the glock pistol and the man behind it and edito sitting to my left is my friend the senditney who is a vietnam war veteran and a "new yorknt and s" correspondent and editor. he issi the author of living wih guns, a liberal's case for the i second amendment.

and sitting to his left is anal" janelle webster who has a contributor who is part of thisi the he grabs a chair directs the gun policy for research. so the farthest to my left istis emily miller who is currently the senior editor of the opinion pages at the washington times fw newspaper. thats. will be starting this mos as the chief investigative reporter of "fox 5 news". congratulations on your new job as it sounds very exciting. ardd td emily is the author of the book emily gets her gun and it'm about the current national political debate over gun 2 control. and she was awarded the mall and off award for investigativeservc ordering for the institute on political journalism in 2012 any

she is a georgetown graduate of toe university of foreign service and so that is a lot of credentials for saturday morning. and i think the way i'd like to handle this is am going to post some open ended questions in my literal a minded way by the tits of these three books and then in will ask the other two this,duals to make any responsive comments it like to make of those and we will just kind of go down the line likese. that and then try to reserve some time for questions from thv audience, which particularly in a topic like this is usually a u very fruitful exercise.case f so pray, let's start with you and why don't you give us the short version of the liberal's case for the second r amendmenti >> the second amendment, ithuntd

recognizes an amendment thatagas exist already and had existed since jamestown. the s the colonists needed guns to few defend themselvestheew against attack and the purposecd of the second amendment was to , reassure people after the new constitution was drafted by what was being considered for estahed aion by the 13 states. so is designed to reassure people that the new federal government was created and coul. not be part of it to radicala direction even if it established a standing army because the the right tohave keep up their militias. and so how could you have a state militia feud don't have people you could call on to server, the second in it who kne guns and have them.

though it has never been, however, a bar of the second amendment and there was nothing in it that barred state and local regulations of the right to have guns in the interest of public safety and in 1792 themet er it was voted on, the by federal government established . militia act and a requirement that the militias reported the remains of weapons held by the people and the end it became transformed into what we know today and to make a long storyte short, yes, it is a right, notat >> ansolute right, and it can be

founlated, regulations can do first device date, city by city. but they are not barred, per set by the first amendment. >> an excellent historical >> foundation, if you'd like to, ii elaborate withng some thoughts about what the second amendment means in this century. a c >> first of all i'm going to confess that i'm not a second amendment scholar. in my book which i am an editor of, we have a chapter looking at constitutional issues in the second amendment in the book that we put out reducing gun violence in america, we brought it together as top scholars with what are the most critical policy questions, as well as the constitutional now says and what the public views are as it relates to gun violence and policies to address the problemt so i guess the theme that i

would say throughout this book there is evidence that there arh certain people who are too dangerous to have guns and thati isbi perhaps obvious and specian keeping them from having guns i the background checks the stems including inadequate regulation and oversight of retail althougf including inadequate regulation and oversight of retail onearms, reducing this to criminals and prohibited people. and so although if you just, yom

know, turnou on cnn and any newn channel when guns are discussed, it seems as though there are enormous divisions in our country that the polling data suggests that it isn't really reality and we found when you gs ask the polling questions of 31 separate gun policies, just about any policy that was framed around keeping guns from no dangerous people, dover is notno only very high support forwn ths policies, but in most cases no weatistical difference between support among gun owners and people who don't own guns, normh was there actually evene disagre differences along party lines.ot so i think that we spend way too

much timerk talking about the things we disagree about most ai when there's a lot that can be >> a done that works that his constitutional that would lead to fewer gun deaths in america. so that is my summary of what il in my book.craig >> maybe you could taking us back to the second amendment and you could tell us how craig spoke about a self-described liberal view of the seconde so amendment. what does this mean to you as a gun owner and why does it have a much punch and meaning to so imo many people in this country? >> the second amendment, lot,uti honestly our founding fathersgho found the right to self-defense to be such an important human cs right and that is why my friend craig and i, i would disagree on

th that the second amendment and the right to keeping their arms originated in the colonies so much as a originates from god giving us a human right toedom o defend ourselves. the founding fathers knew that that right was important just like we had the human right fors freedom of speech and jury byora peers and the second right is ae amendment to a defend ourselves. so this is a personal issue.al i was dog sitting for friends and went to take the dog for a walk and in the 10 minutes or so that i was out of the house, a man came in and was robbing our house. so when i walked back in the house he was in it, insidewas na robbing them. and then he left and he took mye wallet. at he didn't hurt me physically and i followed him to try to get a e picture which was not a very smart idea and in doing so atstn the end of the driveway i found two pickup trucks and about 15

of his buddies standing on theat street and as i turn the corner and saw this, they started running at me. mysf. and so as i was going to sleep e at night, for the first time in my life i thought, what if they come back from i'm in this house to myself, but they want to rapa me or murder me in the police q said that these are definitely drug dealers are drug addicts to come into m the city and on the way i wanted to get some quickey cash, about for the first timese that if i just had the gun by ms night table i could defend myself. so for me that anisd othnene cl concept behind the second geen a amendment and the right to self-defense took place and became real. a and it is my right. then i went to get it done in washington dc and it ended up i taking me for months i have no

intent in hurting anyone, i just defend myself.s. and i saw all of these laws are put in place to stop those like are po and a lot of people are goinm through thesert registration wet processes. so i think the most important thing to point out is that as daniel said, which i do agree with, we all agree that there guns, are dangerous people that we don't want to have guns. al i don't want those drug dealers to have guns. bu guns,want them to lhaves i don't want drug dealers, i don't want, you know ,-com,-com ma illegal aliens and all ofro these groupsl law that are comm. i don't want them to have guns, but no gun control law has ever reduced crime, no gun controlhen

law. and so the laws that are ine's t place and find dangerous people are good on guns go to the panel besides we can put them in jail, but bad guys who want to get guns will get guns and there's nothing they can do they don't do what i do, which is go to the police station, rit take a written test, a five-hour that.bearmsdid not do and i b don't believe there is y need to further infringe entrench upon this human right we have to sell to dance, yearss is the right to keep and bear arms. because we already have laws ine place and in fact, they are working. in the past 20 years the firearr homicide rate is down 50%, nonfatal shootings are down 70%. io the laws we have in place, if you just look at the fbi's peop statistics, murders are goingtht down in the laws we have in place are dead and i believehe that the more people who are

armed, the more they deter each timeuns, and that's the way thae can stop the way that there is gone, side andre there is still. coout 9000 people killed by fomicide every year, although ao quarter of them are felony type. we do that by more people, good people, having guns and we see law enforcement supporting morea people having right to carry his and we've seen police chief come out, having more people with guy permits as a deterrent to crime and we are starting to recognize that. and so i think that summarizes where i come from in the hook and what i come from personally. >> daniel, you study among othea things the regulation of thetrol acquisition of firearms in the d possession of firearms, emily

made a blunt assertion that no gun control laws ever d had anyt thfect on crime, maybe you coul. take that one concise assertion and tell us about the research you have done and that other people have done to address that assertion? >> sure, thank you. ri first of all, i just want to agree with one either underlying premise that we have experienced, which is is ely, ridiculous that you have to go through something for four months to get a gun.da but >> but you testify for those laws.actual. and in fact -- trying >> okay, let's let generaltheac. speak. >> i know, but it's factual. tha >> okay. c that's actually whoat nti'm rots to do is get to the facts. >> why give you a free copy of my book and there will be an several studies that show gun n control laws have reducede, s

violent. la >> can you give us an example os two? >> of that course.rom there are now three published studies and i'm a co-author on one that show was that prohibit those under restraining orders are prohibited from having every firearms. funded and there areby very strong, i t studies,. >> how many were funded by thiso >> none of them were funded. >> is a sort of a cable tv backn and forth. timech need to go one at a and i will use my moderators published report said. funded >> okay. by yo these are all.r do articles -- no, they are not --n they're not funded by bloomberg. i've

you want to make this about michael bloomberg or do you want i stake this about so facts? you're talking about facts. i can back up everything that is in my boo k puand anything thati publish. >> okay. >> so that is one such example. so i j >> so that is one such example. so i just pub3 publish. >> okay. >> so that is one such example. so i just published a study within the last month showinghao that misery had a licensing backgrndor those who wanted to purchase handguns in that state. if you wanted to purchase aju 96?dgun,st poi your first step o to the local sheriffs office, they would do a background check and they did not take fouren die months. >> the study was from 1996, just >> point laws that out. >> was in the sun in march of 96? >> no, the study just came out a month ago. > when did thena changed>> to'm make the law changed in 2007. st >> let me finish. >> all right, folks. i'm actually -- i'm going to say something very strongly here. let let eachs person talk. the point here is not to have a

>>hank yok-and-forth among the panelists, but to actually let the panelists expressed coherent thoughts and then had the next kind. respond in thank you. >> thank you.un >> to just to finish what i wase lot lo missouri had a requiring licensing for those purchasing handguns and it did a require you to apply directly at it repecal sheriffs office and it was goodal for 30 days and it we was a way j to ensure that all handgun transactions, there was ant background check. they repeal the repealed the law in 2007. we just published his buddy that showed it significantly lead to increased rates of homicides anh it only affected homicides with guns. in effect of homicides throughout the state. and we will that just about every competing hypothesis that

we could take that might have explained such a sudden increase in homicides. that also corresponded with a rt doubling of vista criminals. a and so this is very importantinf that we understand what we are talking out how this works [inaudible] >> this includes the overallhis violent crimes statistics in this country.y gone they have violent crime that has significantly gone down in recent decades and places ch compared to 25 years ago, for instance, like washington and chicago which are relatively higher rates than say, new york city. and so the gun laws are part of the legal system that has to bee

kept in mind when you try to ohr figure out why have the rates gone down. there are lots of other reasons as well. gun control laws alone cannot solve our gun violence problem. the good ones based on common sense as well as common ground,l if you find the common ground gn between the people who value their gun rights and those who n are more concerned about public safety,d there is common groundd that can be found. >> we have her common ground ematicaldissension on this panel this morning and emily quite emphatically said that shethreee opposes it as the others do. the idea that convicted felons should have choir guns and be people who have been shown to bd dangerously mentally ill and so forth. those can only someonor be enfof there is a law and someone enforces the law. on the other hand, we certainly have an issue for proponents ofe

stiffer gun control as we have n pointed out that it has gone down steadily after rising andts it's very hard to associate that in any cause and effect away with gun control laws and they k can take a sample, such as my, n hometown in new york where the e laws have remained essentially the same. ye and for the last 30 years, gun violence has decreased th radically. .. emily, let's come to you now and give you a chance to expand on something in your book. the subtitle, the main title of your book is "emily gets her gun," and you gave a very eloquent and poignant description of what prompted you to obtain a firearm.