that it is either going to spark economic growth, really benefit the country, war it will protect the country, pseudo national defence and that is what the fur trade was with washington, concerned that the british were going to encroach on american territory during his first term and we had rid ourselves of the british and they were still in canada but they might come to the hudson bay company into the united states but we set of the government fur company to trade with the indians, that would that establish the united states presence, the british would not come down so we subsidize a fur company and it is a disaster. the encroachment occur is right where the fur company is located because they're trading is terrible. part of it is slow leaders of the fur company by the sun began to the 1800s, theiris . . elements in them we need to

think about too. we need to have -- sell the indians plows and farm equipment when the indians are hunters and gatherers they would prefer blankets or rifles or something even pots and pans but he is determined to some farm equipment and need to branch out and cultivate their case so he buys several grosses of -- even chinese mandarin dress and he is surprise the indians don't want to buy the chinese mandarin dress and all this paraphernalia he is putting in his fur trading operation. pretty soon the british have come in, preferring to trade with the british and private investor john jacob astor, the first american to be worth $10 million, doesn't like the fur trade producing competitively, comes into the market and in effect removes the british somewhat out by his competitive practices, as people

living with the indians, trading with some on the spot. in 1822 congress abolishes the government operation that was funding the fur trade and that subsidy is defunct but you don't read about it in the text books. we didn't learn from it and that is the problem. >> you can watch this and other programs online at booktv.org. >> we are back with more live coverage from the 2014 chicago tribune printer's row it fest in chicago. joseph -- joseph ellis 11 and danielle allen on revolutionary history. >> good afternoon. welcome to the 30th annual chicago tribune printer's row that fast. i want to give the special thanks to our sponsors.

the author's books are being sold in the main lobby today and there will be a book signing right outside this auditorium immediately following this discussion. this program is being broadcast live on c-span2's booktv. we are going to reserve 10 minutes at the end of this discussion for a q&a. when that time comes we ask that you come to speak into the microphones set up right over there for the benefit of our television audience. if you would like to watch this program again is going to be broadcast this evening and tomorrow evening on c-span2 at 11:00 p.m. central time. please keep the spirit of lift test going all year long with a subscription to the printers row journal, the tribune's premium book section fiction series and membership program. this year we are introducing a new digital bookstore through the treaty and books apps. take one of the promo cards that has information about the apps and access special book deals.

before we begin today's discussion please silence your cellphones, turn your camera flash off although we encourage you to take photographs and post them to twitter and facebook with the hash tag printer's row. please welcome our moderator. >> good afternoon. i am jean daly. i teach american history at the university of chicago and i don't want to take a too much time introducing our panelists because each of them is accomplished it would take most of our time just to speak about all the things they have done. professor danielle allen is a member of the institute for advanced study in princeton. she was formerly a member of the faculty at the university of chicago and we miss her very much. she is a class assistant, political theorists who has written broadly on questions of justice and democracy and equality. the book we are discussing today

is in defense of the quality. there it is. our declaration, reading of the declaration of independence in defense of the quality. that will be published at the end of this month by norton. we have with us professor joseph ellis, a noted biographer, historian, revolutionary era. he has written prize-winning books, thomas jefferson and john adams. for many years, professor act the commonwealth -- sorry. commonwealth honors college at the university of massachusetts at amherst and we will talk about his new book today that was published in 2013, revolutionary summer, the birth of american independence so i would like to start out, we have

here a philosopher and a historian and they take different approaches to our founding documents, texts and the stories that they tell. i wanted to begin with danielle. you say at this point, history can function as a barrier to entry for some people trying to understand texts and ideas and i wonder if you could elaborate on that. >> i would be happy to. thanks so much and thank you to printer's row. wonderful to be back in chicago, one of my favorite places on earth. i feel good to be with you all. i have written a book about the declaration of independence called declaration and there should be copies here even though it is not officially out until the end of june but i wrote that book from the perspective of a philosopher wanting to make the case that

the declaration does make a coherent philosophical argument about politically quality. the hard thing about doing that is to figure out how to bring ideas to life and show that there is drama in ideas, to shake our world and the ways in which they come to be in a context like revolutionary summer. is critical to all our understanding of democracy and citizenship but my experience of other books about the declaration where the goal has been to talk about the ideas is people tend to want to give the history of where did this come of happiness come from, what earlier philosophers have written about it or where did this concept of nation come from that earlier philosophers said. for a person who hasn't been exposed to the earlier tradition to make their way is very hard. you have to have read a lot about the declaration and my view about philosophy is you need to understand it, the

scholar but language itself is already an incredibly rich resource for understanding the structure of an argument. in my book i bear down on the text of the declaration and do my best to use the language itself to open up the arguments of the declaration and show their philosophic structure. the idea was to bring readers in, too many reference to things like that that would make it too hard as a starting point. after my book, go rebury will and learn about human suffering but read my book first. hutcheson, exactly. >> historians are interested -- excuse me. historians are mostly interested, philosophers are interested in text, historians are interested in context, in which the declaration was written. the book i am trying to peddle here, this is to sell this book i have one more child in college

and every thing you contribute will go to the alexander ellis scholarship fund. let me try to engage danielle allen. i have read danielle allen's book and i urge you to read it. i think there was a reinterpretation of the declaration by lincoln in 1863 in gettysburg. there was a reinterpretation of the meaning of those words by martin luther king on the steps of the lincoln memorial in august of 1963. i think danielle allen's reinterpretation is the next step in that expansive tradition of what those words mean, most especially all men are created equal, and out by their creator with certain inalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. those are the big ones. some come after that that she thinks the big too.

this woman has written the big interpretation of jefferson's words for our time. did jefferson mean those words as she read them? no. especially one race. i think you can read his words. because jeffersons which from life, liberty and property to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, he got the phrase pursuit of happiness from george mason to use it in the preamble to the virginia declaration which was being written at that time and published in the pennsylvania packet the week he was writing these words. changing property is a big deal because property is going to be the main way southern planters interpret the declaration as a defense of slavery. so i go with that. jefferson did not believe black

people or african-american people were equal to whites. he believed they were unequal not because of culture or nurture but biology or nature. he believed they could never be equal. there are some really unpleasant letters that you will not like to read in which jefferson gets a piece of poetry from phyllis wheatley and says -- she didn't really write this -- couldn't believe a black woman would do it. or in 1806 exchange the letter with another virginia planter his says i need to figure out how we are going to think about mixed race slaves and free blacks and jefferson wrote back and said half and half is still black. three quarters is still black. sally salmons is pretty course. seven eighth, all his children,

are 7 eighth. the blood clears. >> thanks. so much to say, no question about it. first of all for joe to say that about my book is an extraordinary thing so thank you. that is remarkable and i appreciate it. there is no question about jefferson's views about race. joe is quite right that that is what they were and for me one of the most important features of working on the declaration was to discover how many voices contributed to its construction. what i would say, specifically about the pursuit of happiness phrase, it is not jefferson who deserves credit for that phrase that john adams, your other guy. let me tell that story because it is important. adams does not get enough credit

for the declaration. in fall of 1775, they put their heads together, collaborated, they were already radical, they wanted independence but the question was how to do it. they came up with the strategy and the strategy was show everybody, given that the king had ruled the mouth of their protection they could no longer function as the king's magistrates, they could not be his representatives at the out of his protection. consequently anarchy was as good as the established order of the day in the colonies and was incumbent on the colonies to start building their new government. as part of the continental congress they recommended in november that new hampshire whose governor has fled, the constitution delivered in january of 1776. they began working to get all the colonies to start building constitution. then the question was how should a colony build a constitution? we turned to adams for advice on that. adams wrote him a letter in

november that was reproduced as a pamphlet that spring called a soft on government. in that letter and that pamphlet, adams argued the point of government is happiness. and he was working on driving at home. mason uses the word happiness but i don't think the full pursuit of happiness phrase in the declaration of rights, he uses property as well. and jefferson -- right, put happiness and property together in the virginia declaration of rights so jefferson is starting with mason, starts as a virginian with a commitment to property is a term that lets people defense slavery. mason is not happy is there but adams has been a proponent of that term as a single term. we can look back to the summer of 1775 and look at work that jefferson did on the previous declaration taking up arms, he did that work with other delegates. his workers rejected in that document keeps property in there

and pushed out by dickenson who uses well-being and jefferson's property get pushed aside that jefferson was arguing for property still. adams, most important contribution to the declaration was to win the conversation of the committee of 5 that drafted it, only pursued that guinness and property should be there. jefferson would have put property in. >> one of the differences the way each of you goes about the history of this moment is danielle allen, you talk about democratic talks. rather than giving jefferson all the credit for the declaration or even dividing among two or five you talk about the art of democracy is deliberation. as you said, many voices are represented in the declaration, not necessarily in their actual voice but their thoughts and obviously you are very concerned with george washington,

revolutionary summer, winning the war is important and fact on the ground including the continental army and arguments over the continental army and its relationship with state militias are very important. on the one hand we see these men cloistered, writing our founding documents. on the other hand we have a genuine very bloody, i was shocked to hear the english bay and ated american wounded at bunker hill. >> killed them all. british lost 1,000 men of 2,200 in the attack and one british general said one more victory like this in the british army will be annihilated. the point i make in revolutionary summer is two story is going on at the same time, and in philadelphia the continental congress leads to the declaration and the vote on

independence in the second of july. another story going on in new york, the very day they vote on independence, the first day the largest armada ever to sail the atlantic, 42,000 sailors and soldiers, 317 ships is landing on long island to invade and they are ready to virtually annihilate the continental army. washington is going to end with 7,000 and just get off but the lead. they let him off but they could have trapped them. and the interaction of philadelphia and new york, congress and the army helps explain why there is a consensus for independence. there wasn't a consensus for independence in the countryside until spring of 76. she is absolutely right. and he is head of the game. new england is ahead of the game

because it is occupied. the british army is already there, but on -- talk about whether he wrote the first declaration adams thinks the first declaration he wrote on may 15th -- >> i agree with that actually. >> this is great. >> and i say -- >> it is a resolution to every governor in every colony to ask the legislature, we write their colonial charter or constitution to make a state charter. if you are going to do that, that is a declaration of independence, a okay? by the way pennsylvania and new york vote against this because they don't have a consensus there. the governor sent it to the legislatures, the legislature ascended to their respective

counties and towns. we got all the responses, 49 towns in massachusetts, locates? this is where the great deliberation is. more than a single person. everybody says the same thing. they say we can't believe we are agreeing to this. six months ago we wouldn't have agreed to but we have no choice. we are being invaded. we no longer need to declare independence to george iii, he has essentials they clare independence of us. they keep mentioning 20,000 sessions because they are famous for taking no prisoners and raping women. the ultimate commitment and ultimate consensus on independence is not a function of constitutional arguments anymore, it has influenced public opinion and in the context of the innovations that

the real coming together at a collective really happens. >> i agree with that and there are some important philosophical points embedded in that. if you have been reading about the arabs spring, you will see comments from political scientists to the effect that revolution, then you build a democracy and actually, and adams and other fellow's recommended the constitution, that is the work that is happening and what culminates on may 15th with a vote that every colony should take of the work of building a new government prior to the point they decide to declare independence and once you decide to build that new government you will be declaring independence. adams's to do list for spring session of continental congress probably written in february, things he really wanted to do.

the fourth item is that every colony to take up a new government, the fourteenth item is declare independence so constitutions come before revelation. >> you want to draw democratic lessons from that and possibly can. adams is a burkeian conservative. you don't have a revolution into you know where you are going to land after words. you want to have the constitutional state constitutions in place before you declare independence. that is what she wants it to be and it is a measure of the conservative revolutionary. >> para five constitution's passed by the time you get to july 4th, not only new hampshire but georgia, new jersey and i forget the other two but there were five by the time of the declaration but the other reason that matters comes back to the theory of government that adams used in making the case for this constitution and the government

that in my view infuses the declaration of independence as well and that is the theory of government where the focal point, the concept of happiness, not property and egalitarian theory solo he is a person who defended the class system he is nonetheless a person who argued for representation participating as a basis for forming a government so adams's view answers the question when they wrote the declaration what they're interested in and setting up new government that would be republican or democratic or would they have been happy with the better version of marquee. adams's constitutional suggestions were not marked cool blues to the contrary. that was the constitutional spirit that he used in the process of building to the declaration. that was part of the story. >> given the collective opinion of americans today in congress, it may come as a surprise that government is the source of our happiness.

>> not right now. >> wonder if you could expand on that and how you come to that conclusion by reading the text of the declaration of independence. >> important second sentence, we will be stress to be self-evident that all clarke-reed 80 clanton jobless their rights and among these of life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. factors juries rights governments are instituted among men, that whenever government failed to achieve this we have the right of the people have the right to alter or abolish them and have new ones to achieve their safety and happiness. not so much the government is the source of happiness but the instrument we human beings collectively used collectively to work on securing our safety and happiness so the important point about the second sentence of the declaration is we all should have equal opportunity to access the instrument of government in order to do the work collectively together of trying to exceed your our safety and happiness so government is the source of our happiness that

absolutely critical instrument for all of us to use together to work together on that collective project. >> adams would argue most of the time jefferson sounds more like a libertarian to me. the last two thirds of the declaration which is the part of the congress cared most about, they made 124 changes, didn't change a single word in the paragraph we are most interested in, he has no kind word to say about government at all. in fact government is them, not us. the govern the -- the government is this theory and all the terrible things he has done to us. is more about monarchies in government per se but i know a lot of people who are tea party years to think jefferson is there a god because of his hostile attitude towards government. >> that is another place i would provide -- the declaration. you have to pay attention to the list of grievances which regrettably most of us like to

skip over or skim through really quickly but the remarkable thing about them to me is if you pay close attention they divide into five parts, the first grouping is all complaints about george's violation of legislative branch of government, second group of complaints about the judicial function, the third group complains about executive function and then you have a kind of subset where lots of complaints are repeated but all rebates to the quebec act and the last batch of complaints have to do with violations of the law. what is important about exerting that structure with grievances is the constitutional theory is built into the list of grievances and there is a sentence in the grievances where he violated the constitution. they didn't have a written constitution so they're talking about a set of traditions, legal understandings, adams uses that tried party structure, legislative executive and judicial to argue for the basic

branches of government, makes checks and balances argument and in the grievances there is a positive argument about constitutions and government built into that even as they are complaining about tyrants violation of those principles. >> you brought up the question of libertarianism and whether jefferson was a libertarian. i want to talk about that a bit because one of the things danielle allen argues is political theorists tend to consider liberty and equal diaz in tension with each other and not something that naturally go together and it sounds like your interpretation would go along that so i want to ask you about that. >> my interpretation of jefferson as a political thinker comes not from this book but from an earlier book called

america thinks. >> i recommend that. >> mutual admiration society but both of those are sincere. if you read all of jefferson's letters, you get an impression of a person who is less a political thinker than a political visionary. madison is the guy who makes a lot of jefferson's ideas work for him. it worked for madison and a lot of things we think of as jeffersonian are really madisonian. i think he begins with the court conviction that it is an enlightened and conviction that feudalism and medieval values are -- the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest, all the bad

things go away and good things come out. man comes out of the cave. government is bad because they oppress. if we can get it out of the way and let people pursue their own self-interest and it has a certain adam smith it in terms of market places, then that is good. that is the way it is a unique revolution every 20 years to get rid of -- very malice in this sense, revolution every 20 years to clear away whatever residual bureaucracy built up because they will and blow them away and get back to the core values. it is a radical individualism and utopian scheme and those begin with sons of heaven and end put the blood or the guillotine and thank god you got adams and other people alongside him limiting jefferson's in my

view utopian radicalism. >> thinking about liberty and equality is hard, tough job that is true for most of the 20th century philosophers have tended to set liberty and equality in opposition to one another. case that if you want to pursue the quality you can only do that by restraining liberty in some fashion. that is a mistake. that is missing a fundamental point of the relationship between the two of them and ultimately liberty, i would say, depends on equality for its foundation. that argument comes back to the declaration's fundamental point about the importance of government has our shared instrument for protecting ourselves. we building together, use it to achieve safety and happiness but in order to build it together, the construction process is based on egalitarian bond collapse among us and in the absence of those egalitarian

bonded is not possible to build the instrument we need to protect us from domination by one another and domination by foreign powers. the relationship between liberty and equality, i invite you to get the book rather than walking through all the pieces of it here but i hope you will take a look and take it seriously because it is an important one. >> i begin the midst of all the philosophical -- one thing in my book is not part of the general -- why the hell to the british invaded? there is an answer, the american revolution is not inevitable. the answer is clear. let the colonists tax themselves and legislate themselves but remain under the king and under the british empire. william pitt proposes that in the house of lords. edmund burke proposes that in the house of commons. the continental congress proposes that a petition to the

king. the answer is right there. they would have discovered the british commonwealth 100 years early and they say no. why do they say no? we can understand that better than we have been a long time. is an early version of the domino theory. if we do this what happens to canada? what happens to ireland? what happens to india? we can't win them do this. >> very interesting. you have an argument about the breakdown of not the democratic process because there isn't a democratic process with the king but the breakdown of communication which is part of politics even before democracy. that takes us more into the argument about the relationship between equality and liberty. if we look at the list of grievances in the declaration there is a summation, summary statement to basically in every

stage of these oppressions a petition for redress our petitions have been met by repeated injury. if you do nothing else with the declaration think about that sentence. is an extraordinary sentence because what it is suggesting is something the king might recently have done, reasonably respond to their petitions, there's an expectation of reciprocity, we were reasonable in petitioned you, we did not turn to violence, you be reasonable back, the king refused to do that. and columnists are judging the king. in that regard claiming equality with the king, claiming the right to judge whether he lived up to a core ethical principle of reciprocity and they decide to revolt. ..

>> after the revolution from 1789? >> yes. monarchy is the, it is one of

the two ghosts that haunt the constitutional convention and the other is slavery. and they're talking forever about monarchy. and hamilton gives a speech in 1787, in effect advocating elective monarch as the president. and jefferson and madison in the 1790s, they founded a political party. which is confusing as the dickens to everyone because it is the first democratic party. and they

>> do you believe that the principles are incompatible with slavery? and he would say absolutely yes. >> i think that jefferson is characterized by genuine contradictions. and so that you on this is 98% a part of it and this is about the slave trade. but the political point, as you know, it is the same language that he uses to talk about everybody's right or it's a we hear about this in the beginning and those were these rights and these adjectives that were used when they talked about what the slave trade does.

and so there is a contradiction there, no question. >> so when you talk about all the men being treated equal. [inaudible question] >> it seemed like we had this. >> this speaks to the last question as well. so what is that, when do people agree on ideas that have more content than they had may have been raised in a moment and overtime that gets negotiated and contested as well. and so there is a committee of five people who drafted this declaration. there is a congress of 66 people who had to agree with it and there are important places where the language is broad enough to leave such questions undecided. and so that matters. those were some people it was a much more interesting term and they could compromise this for

the moment and then carry on that battle afterwards. >> we talked about this language and now we have various political groups like the tea party doing their interpretation and so what do you think the founding fathers would have thought of the interpretation of the documents. >> i think that there are two families and the first family had only announced her independence and our nation to it in 1787. so i think the authors of the constitution would be stupefied to believe that we are still functioning under the same

document and jefferson thought that it would get replaced every 21 years and madison once predicted in 1831, he said that i think it is about 100 years from now and it looked like maybe it was going to this at that time. so with regard to the declaration, i think that at some point in his life jefferson realized that in those magic words he had written this for it and it's the first thing that he put on his tombstone. and he knew that he was talking about this and jefferson didn't believe in the christian hereafter. for him, the only form of immortality with secular immortality and that is the reason that he would be thrilled seeing us talk about it. >> so i agree with that. and there are just wonderful

remarks in this period that indicate this. so when adam recommends that, to ask for everyone to share their opinions about what the british have done, posterity must hear a story that make their ears tingle. and there is a great almanac that addresses itself to americans 250 years from now and you will look back and you will be amazed. but the thing i would say is that they would be delighted that we continue to try to educate ourselves about the meaning of liberty and equality and they would see it as fundamental to the democratic republican government. so the one thing that i would say about these efforts to reinterpret the declaration that is out there is that it is not rising to the spirit of the declaration and those versions

of the tea party declarations, not all of them, but they declare independence with some fellow citizens. the thing about it is that it is an extraordinary document of compromise and the things that really divided this with anti-slavery are a far greater divide than anything we have now. so we can't recover the spirit of compromise, that is what is going on. >> i think that's a wonderful way to end. thank you. [applause] >> thank you so much to our authors the books are for sale out in the main lobby and they

will be doing a book signing right outside of this auditorium right now. so thank you so much. [applause] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> we are wrapping up a discussion on revolutionary history on booktv. we will be back with more from chicago very shortly.

[inaudible conversations] >> booktv covers hundreds of author programs throughout the country all year long. here is a look at some of the events that we will be attending this week. look for these programs to air in the near future on booktv on c-span2. on tuesday we are at the harvard bookstore in cambridge, massachusetts, for constitutional law professor laurence tribe speaks about his new book, uncertain justice. the same evening, history professor looks at the use of

invisible ink and how messages have been kept secret during times of war at the international club of atlanta. then on thursday in new york city, she recounts what occurred and america outside of the british colonies in 1776 from his recent book, west of the revolution. on friday, hillary clinton discusses her new memoir, hard choices come at george washington university in washington dc. that is a look at some of the programs that booktv will be covering this upcoming week. for more come and go to our website at booktv.org and visit upcoming programs. >> we declare this in 1995 to try to get this and there were only about four scholars. most of them have been written about him for 20 years and sent them two of them had badly dyed and the last one sent to me, you are the keeper of the flame now, and it's up to you. and i said really?

via? and that is way the story ends for most people and it's really where his story begins and that's how he became famous. my publisher used the term celebrity intellectual. that was not my idea. but it is true that he kind of invented the idea of being a celebrity, kind of like a matt damon. like a michael moore. someone who stands for something and he says, all right, i know i am famous, so you have to listen to me talk about this. we did that with a cool strike and he invented the idea of ticketing the corporate headquarters in new york city with black armbands to protest this and he also had been in investigative reporting in chicago. and they're so much more that i would like to say about him.

but i hope you will read my book and i hope you will join me in the effort to not be disappeared from memory. i think that he has a lot to teach us and one of the central issues of his life. temperance was a very ardent supporter because he was the child of an alcoholic and we can only understand him now and we know what they go through and we know what they feel about alcohol and not with them. he made a movie that was one of the very few movies that featured a temperance agent and the guys who are trying to bust up this as a hero. and had a grand premier at grauman's chinese in l.a. and they wouldn't even allow him then because he didn't have a tuxedo. there are so many stories.

>> you can watch this and other programs online. >> what does the de- spam for? >> it stands for nothing. something that it stood for death and it is a code. and you know, people have tried retrospectively to figure out this even though it has no meaning. >> lodge in six of 1944? about 69 years ago today? >> yes, that is right. it was supposed to be doing this come about as the day that the tides were part of this. the moon has to be right. if you're going to go at night to be able to see and the winds

have to be right in june 5 had been wrong and eisenhower never had good luck with the weather. it was stormy for the invasion of morocco and sicily and it was stormy, very unusually on june 5, 1944. and so it was awful. and so he postponed it for a day. and he had a narrow window in which the tides and the moon and on the rest of it was still obtained in a way that was suitable for this kind of invasion. if he had delayed it much longer, the next appropriate time was going to be several weeks later. it was extraordinary that the germans were china. if they had even 24 hours of warning with the invasion forces coming to normandy. and it could have been and

probably would've been catastrophic. so the anxiety level is unbelievable but they did and they got away with it. so june 6 is the day that we celebrate. >> there are five divisions ago when over this. two american and three british and canadians. and then there are three airborne division and altogether you're talking about a couple hundred thousand troops going in on june 6. and the worst beach was omaha. one of the two american beaches. there were several thousand deaths there and there had been concerns that they could run into that tens of thousands and this did not happen and by no means were the casualties light, but they were less than anticipated at utah beach, which was the finest in this horse.

the british and the canadians had a tough time of it. but by the end of june 6, there were a canadian troops 6 miles inland. so omaha beach there were no farther than 1500 yards and there was a disparity there between the resistance that these allied invaders found and their ability to push inland and that is the trick. you want to get inland as quickly as you can and hopefully 5 miles or more you want to push the enemy's artillery out of range so that they can't shell the beach. because that is when your most horrible coming across the beach and i'm not sure, but it took several days to get to that point. but nevertheless, it turned out to be quite successful in the casualties, they are lighter than many had feared. >> you can watch this and other programs about d-day and world war ii online at booktv.org.

simply type the day or world war ii and the search function in the upper left corner of the homepage. >> live coverage from the printers are a literary festival will be back shortly. [inaudible conversations] >> booktv asks what you are reading this summer. >> i brought some books that i have recently read that i thought that people might really like. the first one is by scott berg and it is a new biography of woodrow wilson and he has 13 years of meticulous scholarship that he took to write this book

and it shows. it's one of the most thoughtful and balanced biographies of this complex figure in american history who had his own contradictions. but i think it gives you some new insight and appreciation and a pivotal figure in the history in just such a delightful read and i absolutely recommend it. it is one of the best of we've had in a long time. and our book is by a professor at the university of regina, a former neighbor of mine and a wonderful scholar. she read wrote a book called appomattox. and she talks about how much of the problem that the reinstitution flowed in a sense from the perception of appomattox. and certainly robert e. lee to

the advantage of that when he was actually able to say at appomattox committee implications were part of this. so it's really a part of civil war history and meaning of this, very thought provoking and i highly recommend it. chris matthews has written a book that i really like a lot and i felt was wonderful. it is the story of the relationship of the democrats and president ronald reagan as a republican. and that's the story of a time it seems long ago in which republicans and democrats could come together and make a difference for the country. and so i think everyone who works up here should read this book and take it to heart because a lot got done. because in that relationship they were willing to do what it

to. so the history here in congress of the adoption of the civil rights act of 1960 forces we are coming up on this anniversary, it is called an idea whose time has come and this is almost and hour by hour recount of what was going on and who did what and again it makes one a little bit sad. republicans were at the forefront of protecting civil rights and had a lot to do with this. unfortunately most of those kinds of republicans aren't here anymore. it but it's a great read and very thoroughly researched. but sleepwalkers by christopher clark, it is a pre-world war i starting in 1870 to be open in the world war i in 1914 and in

many ways a kind of projects this, but sometimes you have stumbled into world war i and there's an accident waiting to happen. in this book says actually they were plotting and planning and there were many wars in many conflicts that preceded 1914 and the powers that wind up against each other or in fact not stumbling into something, but they actually designed this. not that they wanted this kind of cataclysmic war that occurred. and this includes russia and europe and france and it was not at all unexpected thing. so it's really quite well done with a lot of history on the

importance of what happens. but actually lots of wars spot in independence and in this empire. so the final book i want to recommend is doris kearns goodwin called the bully pulpit. it is essentially the relationship between theodore roosevelt and william howard taft. and it's about how two men had a different and profound friendship. and so it's sort of a tragic unfolding of that relationship and how it never quite got repaired. so you really can't appreciate him maybe it more than we think of as with another brilliant

effort in really bringing alive this period of history. so it really reflects this, so much of what you read here would have been how many years ago. and then it actually eerily echoes what we are doing today. in politics, in the media, and also in the relationship between this branch. so it's a great read and absolutely that is a must read for the summer. >> tell me about your reading habits. >> i read a book a week. a steady diet of public policy and for just escapism i read lots of novels. when i read mysteries i tend to do serial reading and i find an author that i like and then i

read everything he or she has written. and that sort of my relaxing reading. but i just love history and i think it's so important for us in public life to read history and to understand this as we have a lot of relatives to public policy of putting things in historical context. >> what are you reading this summer? tell us what is on your summer reading list of booktv. posted to our facebook page or send us an e-mail at otb at c-span.org. >> the reason we are trying to focus on the speaker is because it is the speaker of with the full weight of his position who made certain allegations that he will now get answers to. >> you don't normally have an

audience that you present what this case to the public. but the interesting fact is that the tenor of your remarks going back to 1970 and 1972, taking out of context, you were there for one thing alone and that was to imply that americans were on at committee and you knew that bill was no one there knew that there was no one there. >> put those two men into your perspective to give us your perspective on it. >> steve o'neill was really a giant. he knew the politics of the house and he knew the politics of the house and he kept much of it to himself in terms of other members. he obviously received a great amount of intelligence all day long from members of what was

going on in different places. and he always believed that the no one got their way all the time within the democratic caucus. so what you saw was newt gingrich who made a decision that they would go with the minority because they work with the majority. and so he started this with the leader with everyone on that side and his own party because he said the only avenue to the majority is through confrontation and we're going to take them down and this was not about the misuse of tv and asking these rhetorical questions and making these charges and so at that time wherever they were they came to show that they had people there

and of course, it changes the whole dynamic. but that was across this many years later and they have torn this institution apart and it has really paralyzed him. >> george miller sunday night at 8:00 o'clock on "q&a." >> we are back with more live coverage from the 2014 printers row lead fast. the book is rebel music, race and empire and the new muslim youth culture. >> good afternoon, and welcome e to the 30th annual "chicago tribune" printers lit fest. i'm with the festival might like

to start by giving a special thank you to our sponsors. the book will be sold in the main lobby and there will be a signing immediately after this presentation right outside of the auditorium. today's program is going to be broadcast live on c-span2's booktv. we are going to devote about 10 minutes at the end of this discussion for q&a and if you have a question, why not for the benefit of our television viewing audience. if you'd like to watch this program again, it will be re-airing this evening at 11:00 p.m. central time on c-span2. please keep the spirit of this going all year long with a subscription to the printers row journal and membership programs. this year we are also introducing a new digital book store through our books application. make sure you check out the

promo codes for special book deals. please silencer cell phones and turn off your camera flash, although feel free to take photographs and post to twitter from instagram, and facebook, with the hash tag printers row. with that being said, please welcome our moderator. >> thank you for being here. my name is matthew and i am the author of several books of poetry and an associate professor of creative writing here in the south loop. and i'm here to have a conversation with a gentleman who is born in morocco to in every big speaking family with political economy at the columbia school of international and public affairs. he is also a fellow of contemporary black history where he codirected this project and

served as a fellow of the open society foundation in new york. he received his phd in political science from columbia university at the university of maryland. he has also worked contributing to various magazines, including the new middle east report and has written regularly for harvard university and he was editor and author of the recently released great empire and the new muslim youth culture which we are here to discuss today. welcome. so i would like to actually begin this afternoon by asking you why you chose music as a means to explore this in the

so-called war on terrorism. >> that is a good question. well, when you're looking at this in general, music is important and there is a good way to approach it given that they tend to declare the identity and so on. but particularly i thought it would be an interesting way to approach it. given that there is a debate on the permissibility of music and whether it should be embraced or not this includes freedom of

movement. so one thing that we went about it is through music and we can see music through this. through the music of bob marley, malcolm x., it is an important way to disseminate this and a final reason for music is out governments are using music to moderate and integrate and discipline this particularly in these communities, given the debate around the permissibility of music. and so you have states such as france trying to regulate hip-hop in the u.s. using music for diplomacy and the number of state sort of trying to back more of this as well.

>> this includes north america. and that includes. >> one of the reasons that i began in latin america is that it is part of this is quite different than it is in north america or europe. and you mentioned in the introduction by briefly the

foundation has a project and so they look at the policies of state policies and so on. and they look at media representation. and so one of the things that i was interested in is as a muslim youth, we have a lot with state policies and surveillance and so on, we are dealing with the movements and representation. where do you go, where do you blog and in south america you

don't have to organize this and you don't have the sort of negative representation. so every conference i go to in the west, i say that we should broaden our perspective and look at south america and what is it about south america. these things are relatively comfortable. and so again i am not trying to romanticize this. it's the most unequal region in the world, but there is something about this that is different. >> what is your shot is? >> i say it is a couple of things. one word is empire. latin america doesn't have this history of imperialism and invading countries like africa and the middle east and so on. but i do know also that there's a lot of unrest. and so the contingency can

change. we have the government coming to power and so on. a lot of them have defined themselves on their policies. and so also the cultural side effect is part of this and would make it sort of a central political position in the muslim communities and protecting the muslim communities forward the war on terror is some policies and they refused. so on one hand you have the government adopting the position of solidarity and ties to africa and asia. and this leads to all kinds of

cultural consequence and you begin to get this expressing an interest because of this policy in 2003 mandating this and that would lead to this interest in 1835. and so the repercussions are incredible and it would unnerve europeans and americans pre-civil war. so they are wondering about this and what's curious to me is last summer i came across this group which is a collective that tries to use music to build a new

identity and they are trying to retrieve the history of it was fascinating is the lead person and its american music and hip-hop and from the age of 14 i began to listen to hip-hop and then i read the autobiography of malcolm asked in this is all kinds of concessions to represent black history month and so on. >> that is wonderful. and in contrast, one of the things that really stood out for me in the book was the research that you did around state-sponsored situations

largely in europe and also in parts of the u.s. and britain and pakistan and senegal and morocco and algeria. i'm wondering if you could speak about this idea supporting this as it relates also to hip-hop and other forms of music and why this, why the state would engage in this. >> well, there was this idea of it somehow being more liberal and it is a long-standing colonial idea of the 18th and 19th century. and so you have this debate in the early cold war as the u.s. was expanding and so on. and you have these europeans bringing that tradition that would come to america and they have this mystical branch.

so it has a way to counter some of the more political reform and so this was a debate in the 50s and early 60s they lost the debate and the policy was to support political islam is a way to counter socialism and so forth and so on. so after 9/11 and when the debate surfaces again, you have the conservatives making their argument that we should support this and so the rand corporation releases a study and then you get a number of sponsor studies that talk about the need to support it this and create this agreement between political islam and then in 2003, i

believe i was, the pentagon has this program called the muslim world outreach and this meant supporting the moderate group organizations and so the idea was you can help to promote democracy and the hegemony of the movement. and what's curious is that music emerges as sort of a quick way to distinguish on this. and so this would begin sending them to britain and there's the british government counsel to counter the more conservative effort and then there is a whole sponsoring of the music festivals to disseminate these

ideas. they should try to set up this university of the government with algeria and even in chechnya, they would even try to include this. and we began to get pushback within this usage and this debate about this is actually -- it has been a broader debate of political violence that is directed against the united states. so on the one hand you have the realists so there's a blowback argument. and so on the other hand you have the group of thought of these conservatives and others who argue that extremists

violence is not a responsive policy but it grows out of ideology and the problem is a narrative. so you have to be diplomatic. helping to counter or dismantle that in part of it is promoting music and so on. >> i'm wondering if you could speak about the specific element of music in places like france and the idea of regulating hip-hop and the sponsoring of certain styles of hip-hop over other certain messages that come out of various hip-hop groups over others and how about strange art has paid out with a very large kind of population. >> hip-hop would be the youth

culture today, youth around the world. the relationship happened with groups like this who begin drawing on it in various muscle groups who have influenced hip-hop and what happened in the '90s as you have these cultural things that expose you around the world to this. and so you have those who gain an interest through their exposure and it disseminates black history around the world.

so there were a number of people who would embrace a culture and hip-hop does the same thing. and so that was a relationship and after 2001 it became more political with the government interest in the critical episode is when this young middle-class kid came back in 2002 and how he became a part of this. at the age of 12 he started listening to hip-hop.

businesses radical journey of radicalism. so after that american policymakers were talking about this and the need for a moderate interpretation of malcolm asked. so the french government has been intervening in this for 20 years. in 1995 they basically back then would season to the english language and so he restricted the amount of american hip-hop that could be played on french airwaves and it has been more blasé fair in the united states. and the only time that i remember the government in 1991,

very briefly the would be overseas in terms of youth culture. and it actually begins in latin america, there's a great article talking about this where there were plans to privatize this in bolivia. so who hugo chavez was back, it started with this privatization. and then you see it in the argument is we need cultural diplomacy and they began to send out hip-hop artists from the point of this are modeled on the cold war show that american muslims are integrated and not

oppressed. but we do press conferences and talk about this and that the war on terror is actually a war on terrorism. so this is part of a much larger package which involves the symbolic capital of this. and that is very interesting, american diplomacy drawing on race and culture as a way to rebrand america. so if you look at some of the publications on this and so on, they talk about it being a natural connector to the muslim world. because of the early influence of the 70s and this includes racial practices in america, jazz was seen as democratic and

inclusive, egalitarian, and it represents is being made in america. >> one of the things that you picked up on is this interesting kind of culture that is a loaded term that exists with how the music radicalize his youth around racial lines and the integration of malcolm asked and others that we are becoming aware of. so there's an incredible chapter in the book called we are not white. it is about this idea of regionalization among north african youth here in the united states. and i wonder if you could speak a little bit about that kind of racial consciousness that is existing post-9/11 in many ways

amongst the air of youth in the united states of america. >> in the book i talk about the heightened racial consciousness of the last decade in the reason for that is in responding to this and the factors that we are talking about, if you look at the political landscape today, it is dominated by the left. and we have young liberal muslims who gravitate towards it. but if you are a progressive, where you go to what fills the vacuum tends to be african-american freedom movement and so i argue that there is this cultural term towards the movement met the

same time this is the only political aspect to it, but you're saying not just this but with u.s. and canada and france and belgium and england and someone to a certain extent time to push for legal minority status. so you have that in britain and you have them pushing this as well and they successfully got this kick off box them in combat in the u.s. as well. and so i see this as a sign of his desire to be a part of this.

you're still subject to surveillance and profiling. and so we get activists are talking about this just to reform this so we can grant the minority status like any other federal community agency. >> do you see this kind of global youth movement as leading to something similar to a civil rights movement or a larger movement and a global engagement that will actually lead to varying social status in the future? >> there are different trends in different cultural trends as far. i mean, we do have movement emerging and we have the colonial movement, which is inspired by the black power movement in the united states and it's one that has holland,

france, belgium, someone. because they feel that the mainstream muslim organizations comes to raise, that they are trying to have the pressure of mainstream organization to talk about this. and you get not so much separatists but they are trying to entirely reform the discourse on this and so on. so you have these transnational movement situations and there's no single arching movement. >> can you share little bit of the book? >> sure. >> go going over there, it might be easier.

>> i will read a couple of passages. including a passage about brazil, since we have discussed brazil. as i have mentioned the afro brazilian movement is gaining a history of this and brazil particularly in the retentions and cultural influences. and here i am talking about this in the old city. it is a historic center in the twilight they are lit by hanging streetlamps and the stucco townhouses being with lots of history. they flutter in the wind and the sound of trombones and trumpets grows louder. carnival in the old city is a

wonderful affair and the procession tries to replicate an earlier era as they strolled through the alleyways and young girls with white bandannas carry effigies disguised as catholic saints. also absent is the female protagonist in this with their distinctive head wrap and wide hoop skirt. including teaching tortoise had tourists how to wrap this around their head, they would cover up their body and is a presence in northeast brazil and is part of the most well-known situation and the father of modern nationalism and is part of a symbol. they have been captivated by the muslim slaves and the

institutions in this includes those who purchase each others' freedoms they will take 35 is the identity. they gave those in oriental origin so to speak and afforded the entire brazilian nation in oriental pedigree. as in the u.s. there are now the georgia sea islands who want to meet their descendents and witness this and local baptist traditions. they are joined with this tourism as well. and it's not unusual these days to see dutch or french inside the church. ..

guide tells visitors the of the served as a shelter for fleeing muslims slaves after 1835. other sources say the church was designed and built in the 1860s by a muslim in maui and that is all we know. and added in these patterns, a biblical verse translated to the language of the koran and the church faced east toward mecca, a direction of prayer or towards west africa.

one more bit. if that is okay. this is on the historic relations between islam and jihad, great interest to muslim youths and government officials, quote, the department officials and a muslim you scrutinizing connections between islam and the odd for different reasons. american muslim use are studying the composition of john coal train, trying to understand how malcolm x at speaking style was influenced by the 1940s and how in turn this fiery muslim leader is rhetorical cadence with influence jazz artists like cultureing. the relationship to jazz has intrigued jazz the fiction that nose and the muslim community. the drummer says cryptically the saxophone was a real country boy and was in to being a muslim and everything like that but he liked his greens with his fat

back in it. and love of critical importance, this is the debate all among muslim use. weather the recording was actually saying i love supreme. if he is saying that, that would be one of the greatest jazz compositions of the 20th century, the manuscript is one of the national museum of american history treasuries, is a tribute, and the last living member of the jazz members the all muslim group in 1948, the saxophonist use of the spokesperson for the world ride athletic community. between 1963 and 1966, he was experimenting with eastern sounds with this jazz free recording. every unified speech in milwaukee and the convention suggested i talk -- call and ask

about a love supreme. in 2009 i got to meet him. i arrived in man and. musicians were in place, the audience, dressed in a gray robe and this was to the right of the stage, saying evening prayers, he broke it with the drink of water and keep played various instruments, saxophone and eastern instruments. he softly sang spiritualss accompanied by a three string instrument made of camel skin. as he autograph record for a line of fans i asked about the instrument that accompanied his -- is a spiritual instrument, he whispered. and his physical self which was what he called jazz. when i mentioned the love supreme, he had the same response in the memoir, the

inspiration for the composition came from his late muslim wife and the fact that five times ed day, he said i can only say john and i were dear friends, trying to advance our music together. my guess is his wife and urged him to read the koran. the prayer john wrote in the love supreme repeated the phrase all phrase got no matter what several times. this phrase has the semantics of the second sentence of the transliteration, all praise god. if i continue -- let me mention something we haven't spoken about. we have a couple chapters on the music of north africa, try to tell the story of these

communities. the community is apart from france. and one of the people i talk about in the book, and almost 90, well-known jazz pianist but an algerian jew who was in algeria growing up, and is stripped of his french citizenship. he was telling me about when happens when americans landed. when american troops, in november 8th, 1942. he was out of school 14-year-old playing piano for to set different cafes. philosopher jack was hanging out in algiers. the allied forces landed in

casablanca or algiers as part of north africana axis powers moving rapidly eastward until tunisia was liberated in may of 1943. that evening the americans arrived, as always distributing cigarettes, chewing gum, chocolate, and kids started going up to them. to this day he recounts actually -- his audience's first in counter with puerto rican and african-american soldiers who taught him to play ragtime. in iran i saw soldiers carrying bongos, puerto ricans and they say to me can you play local garage? i didn't know how but the latino g is taught me to sing that. the black gi told me to play the boogie-woogie on the piano. pianists play with one hand, they're right hand, the end of the tradition.

the left-hand barely moves but the g is play with the right hand. to demonstrate he place a rhythm with his right hand and his left hand comes in with scott joplin's ragtime entertainer. operation torch as it was called from domination and unleashed a burst of musical creativity. it would go on to develop a mix of flamingo and arabic. and simultaneously different patterns with his right. the two styles into an arabic latin jazz music makes it go. both of these are a curious result of america's encounter with latino soldiers meeting young music the fiction that nose

cafes. thank you. >> reporter: we have time for a few questions. >> i can hear you. >> speaking the about all this, how did you play into all of this? >> a couple things. looking at war on terror policies, they tend to be directed toward young muslim men. they are the ones who are seen as the threat and need to be socialized and sullen and there was an effort in this policy that has to do with saving young women. and i talk about the promotion because it is seen as more tolerant toward empowering of women and i talk about one of

the movements, musical trends that are emerging, and european officials like this particular community partly because it is dominated by women. women who tend to run the healing ceremonies and so on. it is part of the policy of muslim women is part of a larger effort to promote that. >> thank you so much for your wonderful questions, i really really enjoyed it. quick question. who did you envision your readership to be?

as policymakers, the muslim youth engaging in this new thing. did you have them in mind or -- the book is just out? have you had some responses already? >> i was thinking who would want to read this? anyone interested in music, scholars and students interested in globalization and the era that we live in. the full discourse of civilization and the war on terror. i think of my book as an intervention in this debate. responses, a policymakers are interested in this kind of thing. the push back so far has been from the state department people who engineered these programs. they are the ones saying you are being unfair, criticism, the programs are more effective than

we think. >> you have a question? >> yes i do. not sure i am tall enough with this. i find it very interesting when you brought up hip-hop because we have an organization in chicago called inner-city muslim action network can we have these musicals, a hip-hop events every three months and i see it as an agent for social change especially among the underprivileged muslims of african american ancestry but i also see there are very few muslim youths who engage and listen but they don't participate, they don't generate music. you see the immigrant population. i was wondering if you could talk about that. and also this dichotomy in islam where we have folk music but we don't have and we have sufi music but don't have music

inside the mosque. we have in temples, inside churches, and they don't necessarily have something inside the mosque. it is usually outside. and in the immigrant community and engagement in america with hip-hop and house music, the music generating social change really can relate because it is not really part of islamic culture, it is culture in general, lots of religion. >> i have a chapter in the book where i talk about relations between, quote, indigenous and second-generation, a third-generation children of immigrants, one of the things you are seeing in the last year, the children of immigrants are sort of waking up and becoming more racially conscious and one reason they are gravitating

towards race activism is in response to a policy. you get organizations that i discussed, some in washington d.c. and new york. it tries to do music to bridge these political, cultural divides. i would disagree with the muslims of the immigrant to send i not active, you have all kinds of hip-hop artists emerging now, in los angeles and new york, chicago, detroit who are very active and if you remember if you look at the musical circuit between new york and london, new york and paris there is a great deal of travel, recordings being sent back and forth, on line and having concerts'. there is a group in brooklyn, every six months to a year they

have a concert, film activists and anyone interested in the issues, brought over from london and paris to perform. i open with a book in the bronx, organizing these hip-hop, massive head pops--hip-hops block parties and the pioneers of hip-hop. the grand master and a lot of kids you see performing are from overseas and what got me interested in working as a journalist covering the bronx, cultural trends, use trends, a uc these kids coming from argentina and japan and france and so on and i remember talking to one crew from argentina, they said we are actually

ambassadors. why is the u.s. government bringing kids from overseas to the bronx? early 2,000s were in interesting period culturally, you had hip-hop activism, hugo chavez started a program giving subsidized gas, will through his company. the bronx museum launch a program called smart power. and the marginalized neighborhood wouldn't really figure in american public policy overseas would become part of these programs and there you see all kinds, at different backdrops, and moroccans and so on. >> the book is rebel music, grease, empire -- "rebel music: race, empire, and the new muslim youth culture". >> thank you all.

[applause] >> thank you for that discussion and thanks for attending. hisham aidi's book is for sale in the main lobby and he will be signing books in the auditorium. [inaudible conversations] >> we will take a short break but we will be back with more from chicago in just a few minutes. >> here is a look at the best-selling nonfiction books according to the los angeles times. at the top of the list is capital in the 21st century, the french economist reports on wealth and income inequality in

europe and the united states since the eighteenth century. second is hash tag girl boss. former treasury secretary jim guy nehr is in --geithner with stress test. point web site for specific airtime is. can't we talk about something more pleasant? his fourth on a los angeles times best sellers list followed by a journalist blin greenwald's no place to hide:ed snowden, the nsa and the u.s. surveillance state. you can watch glynn greenwald's talks in washington d.c. at our web site, booktv.org. a fighting chance by massachusetts senator elizabeth warren. booktv recently severed and elizabeth warren and thomas ted purdy in conversation at the old south meeting house in boston. look for it to air in coming weeks. at number 7, let's just say it wasn't pretty by academy award

winning actress diane keaton followed by everything i need to know i learned from little golden book by diane small group. then scholastic's mind craft, essentials hand book and baseball player mariano rivera's, the closer. visit l.a. times.com. >> in 1986 the chairman of the communist party, a sympathetic -- debate and democracy movement at that level, the strictest position, when that happened, to go underground which caused a lot of tension until the 1989, spring of 1989 and died of a

heart attack and is that triggered demonstrations, and students wanted to go and demand they would be allowed to say goodbye to someone who was sympathetic to the students, the demand was refused, the students took to the streets and developed into a massive demonstration. i was at the university at the time. i took part in the movement with the loss of my friends and some of them became very prominent in the movement and became student leaders and led hunger strikes for example and throughout the 7.5 weeks of the movement. when june 4th came, the model in beijing and the army of fire,

the movement was crushed and after that they came under martial law and university campuses were sealed off and there was a lot of the events that executions and it became very dangerous place and i had before the itanamen event, was able to get my passport after i had been hiding in the countryside until last week and received my passport and got my visa from the u.s. consulate and left china the second of august to america and i remember clearly, in williamsburg, i

stood on the campus, i was very quiet. it was an amazing and liberating feeling to be standing in a place where i realized for the first time in my life no one was watching me and no one was going to report the things that i said. >> you can watch this and other programs about the 1989 tiananmen square protest at booktv.org ended the featured video section of the home page. >> every month we have a new book for our ballclub and this month we have chosen the forgotten man, either the original edition or the graphic editions so if you would like to read along, economics, you can tie a lot of things in today as well. the forgotten man is our book club selection for the month of june so pick up a copy or

digitally get a copy and join us in reading. if you go to booktv.org you will see at the top there is a cab that says book club. click on book club and beginning this afternoon we will start posting your comments, we want to hear what you have to say about the forgotten man, our book club selection for the month of june. >> booktv asks what are you reading this summer? >> i am hopefully going to get to three books, the zimmerman program, a book senator $0.11 to me, the jewish prime minister of the caribbean, the first two books were books that to the zimmermann telegram that i was at the l.a. book festival speaking on my book and was

really intrigued by the story for me as the first jewish woman to represent fraud in congress, historical depictions and stories about the jewish experience intrigues me and the past is prolonged and we have an opportunity to learn from the experiences the jews have been through in that story, the zimmermann telegram specifically is an interesting story because it was a telegram that was intercepted by great britain to essentially try to get mexico into the war against the united states and the story he goes

through the balancing act great britain had to do to not reveal they had the german code that at the same time notify the united states of the impending danger. the jewish pirates of the caribbean is the book focuses on the past being prolonged for jews and history we have been through. there were jewish pirates who were fighting the spanish inquisition and who rode the high seas and that book tells the story of what they went through and their adventures and handshakes and the outcome of those. it is a story about migration throughout american history but particularly the great migration

from the south of african american following slavery and the struggles african-americans have gone through and the tough life they have lived. a fictional story that depicts a family and a mother who prepares her children, a nine children for the difficult problems they will face throughout their life. >> what do you reading this summer? tell us what is on your summer reading list? tweet us at booktv, post it to our face book page or send us an e-mail, booktv@c-span.org. >> more from chicago in just a few minutes. >> here's a look at some books that are being published this week. hillary clinton recounts their

tenure as secretary of state in hard choices. the people versus barack obama:the criminal case against the obama administration, ben shapiro, editor at large, argues the obama administration has been marked by abuses of power, bruce allen murphy, constitutional law professor recount supreme court justice antonin scalia career in a court of one. former secret service agent dan and that recalls his career in within arm's length, the co-founder of women's live worldwide reports on women around the world who are overcoming poverty in teach a woman to fish:overcoming poverty around the globe. in obama's enforcer:eric holder's justice department, john fund, a columnist for "national review," and a senior fellow at the heritage foundation presents their criticism of eric holder and the justice department. look for these titles in

bookstores this coming week and watch for the authors in the near future on booktv and booktv.org. >> this tuesday simon and schuster is releasing hillary clinton's latest book, large leases. booktv was in new york at the book publisher's office to talk to some of the people involved in the production of the book. >> i have been totally involved in all books actually. i am not the one official publisher of the current book but i have been involved in the process so long. way back when she was in the white house, i tried to persuade her to publish a book which became take the village, her first book. i was there to convince her to do so. i have been involved in her publications. i am not the editor because that is not my course strength, but i

watch over the publication and helped get it all organize and make sure things are on track. started with living history but in this case making sure our best people are working on at the >> we are publishing hard choices on june 10th, it is her fourth book with us and i was the editor of the book. i was involved from the beginning of its acquisition and overseeing all aspects of it working very closely with all the people at the company. >> as the editor is there are lot of e-mail back and forth between you and the author? that how it is done? >> every case is different. in this case i try to give as much attention to secretary clinton's book as i have all the other authors we published. i should mention in the same breath we are publishing james webb, a terrific united states senator and his book is out right now. i don't want to favor one author over