into the castle. that is very similar to the situation now. minister tuesday about what did he do wrong? this sorcerer wakes up and reverses the us powell and everything is okay. . .

talking to them as a fellow human being asking them how their family is. the first thing they ask is how is your family come and they mean it. that is a good cultural practice. how is your family doing, how are your kids and wife? one thing that is for sure and obvious to anybody that travels to other countries around the world as people all over the world love their kids just as we do. we love our kids very much and so does everybody in the world. and nobody wants to see their kids go hungry or get killed. it's a horrible thing if there

is a chance to do things in another way i think we should try that. either that or we kill all of them. and i don't think we want to do that anymore. booktv was in chicago the homat thehome of the 30th annuao tribune" hunters robot test with offers from the john hopkins school about the books ranging from illinois to africa, world war ii and much more. we began from the printers row book fast with monique. [applause]

' [applause] >> that was nice. it's almost enough to make you want to run for office. [laughter] >> almost. we are deflated to be back here tonight and i've had the opportunity to visit the nixon library and museum on a number of occasions and served in the nixon administration during the first term so i'm always pleased

to come back and visit this part of the world and be reminded of a very important time. i was happy to be a part of his administration. we are here tonight i should explain that the outset why we are here together. the fact is i was born in lincoln nebraska and when was born in casper wyoming and when i was about to go into the eighth grade, my dad moved the family to casper wyoming he had a choice between wyoming and it was a good thing because we grew up together and i first took her out when she was 16-years-old to celebrate our 50th wedding anniversary. [applause] if he picked montana instead of

wyoming, of course i would never have married lynn. she would have married someone else and then he would have been vice president. [applause] i don't recall that is one of the jokes you were supposed to tell. >> i am a freelancer. we are here tonight to talk specifically about the magnificent book that she's written about james madison that has gotten some great reviews and we are on the book circuit so to speak. i've been to the nixon event sponsored by the nixon library when i had heard other books to publish. and now we needed to have an opportunity to present hers. as i said it is about the nation's fourth president and i will ask her questions and she

will respond and then at the end of that time we will open it up and take some questions from the audience. with that, let me begin by asking what made you decide james madison needed another biography? before you get there i want to say i'm so grateful for joining on this book to he tour and they started referring him as my arm candy. [laughter] you know, i've known i was interested in madison for a long time. i had the privilege of serving on the bicentennial commission for the constitution in 1987. and it was then i first began to understand how magnificent madison's accomplishments were and yet how little recognized he was in terms of what he had accomplished in his political life. it wasn't until five years ago that i became serious about writing the book and it has been a labor of love and i only hope

that you will enjoy the book as much as i enjoyed writing it. he was the architect of the constitution and of the bill of rights. he was crucial to the establishment of the first government under the constitution. he was president during the first war under the constitution and he performed if not magnificently in all those jobs at least very well. at the end of his presidency, john adams who was kind of a sour figure and not give in to makinintomaking compliments easn adams wrote james madison's administration had covered itself in more glory than any of his predecessors does a great compliment because the criticisms were washington, jefferson and adams himself. so i do think that he has been underappreciated and it's been so much fun.

i know five years of labor doesn't sound like much fun but discovering things and being able to put it into a form i hope would reach the audience and as the book is called reconsidering james madison's life. which is the most important contribution. if you had to pick just one, what would it be? >> it would have to be the constitution. i think that he was a genius and the reason is he was the kind of genius that he had is that he was able to break through the conventional thinking. when everybody else was thinking one way, madison didn't necessarily accept it. he would think of other possibilities and he did that in the case of the constitution and establishing a great republic, which is what we are. the conventional wisdom i was tt

you couldn't have a great republic where people voted for representatives for themselves other representative government, that it would be too loose over the long and vast extended land and it would fall apart unless you had the power and the monarch at the center. while madison thought that wasn't true. he fought in fact the danger in the republic is that one faction will dominate and impress everyone else. his genius was to see that if you had many factions as there would be i any large republic tt no single one was likely to be able to become oppressive and that was the rationale for the constitution that was produced in philadelphia. it was his genius to see through what everyone else believed time and again and to transform the world by giving it.

>> you talk about his relationship with the other founders, george washington for example. >> we think of them as sitting around having a polite conversation and all of them having a greater good in mind at all times. it's much more interesting to realize them as they were which was the people that firmly be leaved in their plaintive view and were willing to fight to see it succeed. in the beginning he was the chief lieutenant. the first government under the constitution that began. this would be familiar to any of you in politics. washington has an aide right his inaugural address and they produced a 72 page disaster. so washington wrote to madison and asked him please come to mount vernon and health and associated and he wrote

washington's inaugural address and a very good job of it. after washington the liver to the address, madison who was the leader of the congress wrote the response to madison. he wrote to the response to the inaugural address and washington by this time for but they were so good at this kind of thing he asked him to write the reply back. [laughter] >> it's hard to imagine how his voice was echoing off every wall. i'm not sure there has been another time in history when one man has been so influential at the beginning of his administration believe that madison was in the beginning of washington. >> host: obviously there were battles over the various provisions of the constitution. we ended up with article one,

two and three and it took a long time, many hours and days of work to put it altogether. altogether. all together. but can you cite the sort of specific compromise and important provision that they argued about and were ultimately able to resolve? >> guest: >> is what we all learned about the big states and small states that want him to be represented proportionately according to their population. the small states onto them to be represented as state and we all know the compromise. they got recognized in the senate and proportionately in the house. madison was appalled. he thought there should be proportional representation across the board. he had gone into the constitutional convention thinking it's a great threat to the republic. he called them the evils dates because they had been so irresponsible under the articles of confederation repressing the

religious freedom, churning out money. rhode island was especially guilty. this is what rhode island did that made it that made it necessary to accept that money for the debt that had been incurred so maybe you are getting paid off a penny on the dollar. the states were texting one another or a pressing one another. they were conducting their own foreign-policy so madison thought the states needed to be controlled and when it turned out with the compromise wa thato have the states represented as states and not proportionately in the senate, it took him a couple of days to get around to accepting that. >> host: what made them think they needed a vice president?

>> guest: that is kind of an intro question, isn't it? [laughter] it have to do with the electoral college and everyone has to vote. they finally got the electoral college when they couldn't agree on anything else. so, the alternate at that point was to let the congress choose the president and just imagine how different presidents would have been if the president was choosing. you wouldn't have had a ronald reagan. i don't think that he would have had makes him either. you would have had plenty of the speakers of the house g house go become president. everybody gets to vote, and again the big states and the small states. the small states are worried that the biggest dates would always be elected president. so to assuage their concerns, the deal was made that you could only cast one vote.

it would give the small states a better chance. but then they started worrying and you have all played this kind of game if you want that one vote for your own state to be important, you throw away the second vote. to prevent that, we are finally getting the answer. they invented the vice presidency. the idea is the person that got the second highest number would then become the vice president. and that seemed like a pretty good idea but then they started worrying what was he going to do quite [laughter] it was interesting to see how this builds up. they decided he needed a job and they would make him the president of the senate. by the end of the constitutional convention there were two

delegates there were so worried about the vice president and preacher of the executive branch being the president of the legislative branch out his -- about his violating the separation of power to the delegates and randolph of virginia. the two delegates -- no, i'm sorry, george mason of virginia cited the presidency as reasons they wouldn't sign the constitution. they called it a dangerous office. so there you go. [laughter] >> during the course of his career in implementing the constitution to be the best way to describe it how did alexander hamilton become an important player in all of that? can you talk about what it was that led to their major

disagreements and confrontations? >> first maybe it's important to realize him and hamilton were not buddies but they were colleagues. they wrote the federalist tapirs together with a little help and the story in the federalist papers -- if you don't mind i will just go ahead and diverge a little bit. the story in the federalist papers is interesting because it was done in such a speed and i was explaining to the college audience and you from the colleges and universities in this area will appreciate that what madison did during one period of time in 40 days was the equipment of writing a ten page paper every other day. you could do that. couldn't do that. it doesn't seem and if possible but that the papers became immortal. so writing the philosophy and politics and an effort to

convince people to support the constitution act that great breakneck speed the printer was putting the beginning parts into the print before often before they were finished. so they respected one another until hamilton became the secretarsecretary of the treasur george washington and he began to make his financial plans clear. madison was troubled from the beginning but eventually when the issue of establishment of a national bank came up, he was deeply concerned. he didn't think the bank was a bad idea. but as a constitutional convention he said it was such a good idea that as the constitutional convention he had proposed giving the congress the power to grant charters which is what you need i if you wanted to establish a bank. however it turned that

opportunity down. down. but congress didn't have the power and that was the problem. hamilton was running over the strict number of powers the congress had been given. he thought he shouldn't establish a bank. he went on to kind of win the war i guess you would say. he established the first opposition political party. parties didn't have any better reputation than than they do n now. it was against the conventional wisdom that said. the government is a little more than a monarchy in order to change the way into two defeatss

the way that hamilton was trying to cover the government. jefferson and madison was a small government guy. >> one of the most important functions that we have seen obviously throughout the history as the role of commander-in-chief who is going to run the war and be in charge of the military, and of course madison as you mentioned in the opening was the first president ever to have to conduct of the war under the constitution. the way that power was invested in the presidency strikes me as a great story because that isn't how they started about. can you talk about that? stomach the proposal of the constitution, there was just about to go through was that the

congress among its delegated powers was the power to make the war. and madison was so quick he just instantly grasped what would be the results of the various proposals. he left his feet on the floor of the convention and changed the words make to declare. congress would have the power to declare the war. he did this because he had a scene with the congress made of the things when they were in charge of the war. the congress would decide. there was more trouble in the north and they said send north and it simply wasn't a way to

run the war. so madison leapt to his feet and said congress has the power to declare a war. that's what i did is make the president a commander-in-chief once the war had been declared. >> how did he do as the commander in chief? the british march on washington burned on the capital, burn down the white house? was he a good commander in chief? >> he was patient. they had generals that served in the revolution and they were getting a little bit long. they were not as brave as they might have been in their younger years. one general that was supposed to invade canada near detroit to go over the border became so

alarmed at the rumors that turned out to be true actually that the british had formed a strong alliance with the indians who were great warriors that the americans might have to face is that he just turned around and he not only didn't invade canada, but he gave the british detroit. so they were a problem, not so with the admirals. the navy that started under john adams had eight or nine by the war of 1812. they have more than 100. but the navy had trained all the time and brought new and younger blood demand the shapes. you can't just mothballed the navy and then build it up again. so they kept going all the time. and as a result, there were magnificent victories, naval

victories in the war of 1812. and while people like the general were fleeing from the british and indian allies, he was indeed related to the general and was commanding the constitution command of the constitution of course the uss constitution most famously and countered the british and just, you know, wiped her out. part of the reason is although they were far fewer for better builds. in many instances which is why she gained the name old ironside so there were splendid naval victories and towards the end of the war we were developing a new class of generals.

so he suffered through those first generals and i don't know what the commander in chief has in that and absolutely help celebrate the glory of the navy. he also changed his mind and he wasn't afraid to do that when the circumstances changed. he long regarded the armies and navies as a threat to the republic to easily use against the citizenry. by the end of the war of 1812, he was suggesting to the congress that the expand the navy and provide for a standing army. >> how would you evaluate them and how was it viewed by the public and the command as somebody that was successful or not very successful? stomach medicine was one of those few that left the presidency highly regarded by all of the countrymen.

it was regarded by americans as evidence that we should be recognized on the world stage. they deserve to be recognized on the world stage and the rest of the world began to do that especially as you pointed out after andrew jackson got beat the heck out of the british by the battle of new orleans. one of the most intriguing aspects of the research that you came up with was. i think it is a major contribution from the historical standpoint. he had an affliction that was running throughout his life and yet he was able to achieve both anomalous check this debate coke -- phenomenal objectives as one of the most important founders.

can you tell us about that. people call madison shy, which he wasn't. he was simply reserved. between the episodes of whatever it was was enormously energetic taking the trips by horseback or carriage and jefferson traveling in the days that it wasn't easy between the home in montpelier and whatever the capital was in new york and philadelphia and washington. it was something that none of the scholars could manage key was on horseback for 60 hours

when washington was burnt. so there was something odd. but between sickness, he was quite well. there's a letter that he wrote in the presidency and it hasn't been published yet. i think i was the first person to really pay attention to it. it's at the firestone library in princeton and it is a draft of an autobiography that madison wrote. he was subject and here is the quote a sudden attack somewhat resembling epilepsy. i think people just wanted to shy away from it because it is a difficult topic to figure out how in the 18th century. but i decided i would take them seriously and you can see the period and his wif in his life d have these episodes. his description of the sudden attack in fact fits quite well

with what we barreled just today called partial seizures which is a mild form of epilepsy, and i think that was it. first he had seizures as a child and that is often the part of a syndrome that involves seizures, at the left dick seizures as a result. and he suffered the first of princeton when he was at college. and, you know how you can just see it once you say he knew what he was talking about i'm going to take him at his word he fell into this period of the deep discounted fee when he worried about his soul and that he wouldn't live long and he worried that he wasn't good enough. and he was lucky that he found a doctor's but urged him to

exercise, that's being fixed would help. it didn't end of the seizures that he was remarkably fit. and i think that he decided once he had taken his physical health in his hands he decided to take his soul in hand and he wasn't going to believe all the things people said about epilepsy. people said if yo that you had epilepsy or seizures resembling it that you were evil, that you were full of sand, that we were even possessed by the devil, and madison finally just decided he didn't want to or have to believe that. i think that this thread into his strong support and freedom of religion. people can be read in whatever religion or no religion if they want into his strong support for the freedom of conscience, intellectual freedom.

nobody should have to be read anything that he or she thinks in himself is wrong and that idea liberated him and i think indeed helped liberate us all because he led the way for the freedom of conscience for intellectual freedom and religious freedom more than any other founder. >> what happened to the autobiography? didn't finish it? >> he didn't. it's just a draft. this happens after you've been in political life for a while. what you tell me something about your self and he wanted to publish them. madison started the autobiography that he didn't finish it. he decided subsequently not to talk about his epilepsy because it was so demonized he decided it was more trouble than it was

worth to call that down at the end of the presidency. >> but he still had an amazing ability to perform as he did year after year. >> i think seeing him as having complex partial seizures is how we can be sick time and again. but between he was perfectly well and full of energy. the energy at the constitutional convention was phenomenal. >> she was beautiful. men stopped in the street of philadelphia when she walked past because she was so beautiful. she had dark hair and pale skin matheson was smitten when he saw her on the street. his good friend they had gone to

princeton together and if you ask and this is before he got in trouble. he asked him to introduce them. they used the yellow dress and he was a goner. they married a few months later and he was a political asset. i always kind of spectacle. it is as important as it might have been or we think it is. more and more have their own career so they are not central to getting their husband elected. she was because in those days the congressional caucuses pick the presidential nominee. there were no conventions.

they pick the nominees. >> and she made all of those members of congress very happy. they were miserable. they talk about nothing but politics from morning to night. there was no place to go. [laughter] [laughter] may be that tight rope walkers, that's my story. i don't know. so, these men were so happy when they opened the doors of their house and welcomed them no matter the party. they played cards, she took a little alongside of henry clay. it was warm and they didn't find if you talked politics. jefferson was very different.

he liked things smooth. so he didn't invite people from both parties to dinner. they began to feel not only great respect for madison but i think a great warmth. there is even contemporary testimony to her having been in not some significant measure responsible for his getting the nomination in 1808. >> they have been married for 42 years. >> not as long as us. [laughter] >> tell me what was the high point in those 50 years. [applause]

one event i can think of presents you in a light i think some people do not often see you in. let me tell you these are real romantics and for the 50th anniversary of the first date and what was that? >> it would have been 1958. >> 2008 was the 50th, he arranged a surprise party to celebrate the 50th anniversary of our first date. it was special he invited or college friends and he even had

a good sense to tell me we were going to the british ambassadors for dinner. you don't want to take somebody to a surprise party if she doesn't have on a nice dress. you don't want to take her if her hair is in rollers or whatever. then the gridiron dinner happened in washington and asked the vice president spouse we always sit at the head table and in this particular occasion after going to the british embassy that night i was seated next to the british ambassador. [laughter] so as he put it i had to read him in. he had to tell me the cover story. the british ambassador didn't say a word and the surprise was

complete. it was a wonderful night. he had a take me to that was tall with a body sticking out of it with tall hair, but it was red and it was a skirt and he did that because of the first date i wore it to the formal with a big red skirt. [applause] [laughter] >> are you blushing? >> one more question and then we will open it up to the audience. this is a difficult one obviously. >> he wasn't pleased with the constitution when it was finished but he thought it was probably the best human beings

could do so he became a fervent defender but at the end of his life he hated slavery. he wrote a letter as a young man in which he said i'm going to do everything i can to become independent of the slave labor and get off of the farmers plantation and live an independent life in which he wouldn't be dependent upon that dreadful institution. he tried he didn't have a long time to try because he became involved in public life and creating the constitution and so forth. so he didn't succeed. jefferson also hated slavery and he didn't succeed either, so i don't think he had such a goal but at the end of long lives

they both died owning slaves and you can see him towards the end of his life clinging desperately to the only thing that he could think of that might help which is the colonization society. one of the problems by the 1830s was that i if you freed the slaves they couldn't stand virginia. there was a law that presented that. the neighboring state couldn't move there so then there was this idea finding a place in africa and paying the way for the freed slaves to go to liberia. it was a failed scheme from the beginning that you can see them just clinging on to it to give the kind of hope they had as a

young man at this institution. like maybe to wrap up this part if madison were here tonight, would he think that we would have been true to the basic principles and body in his work? >> he would be appalled at the size and the scope of the government and he would think that we had moved far away from the limited power that we were given by the constitution to the federal government. he might be somewhat gratified oveof his disappointment with te much greater. i was telling some people a story that occurred to me in the last few weeks it was considering the case that involved whether the police should have the authority to search your cell phone if they

stop you for a traffic violation and there were two instances in which this happened in those two cases were argued before the supreme court. that is an until we decide thins in our society. they would go back to the constitution that was formed so long before there were cars so long before there were cell phones. but they have to go back to the fourth amendment if madison wrote that talks about citizens not being subject to -- what is

the phrase, unreasonable search and seizure. so he would be gratified. [applause] i want to start with this young man. your question is? >> you talked about how he was viewed by his peers. how was he viewed by the public whether they liked hi like him t like him and the way that he kind of started the government? >> madison wasn't the kind of person -- he wouldn't be the

fellow that elbowed everybody else out of the way to get to the tv camera. so i don't think that all of his deeds and early public were appreciated by his fellow citizens but certainly by the time his presidency was over he was deeply appreciated. his contemporaries were most enthusiastic about his job as the commander of chief. i do think that has been lost in light of. good question. >> what is madison's most significant precedent? >> i'm sorry? >> significant domestic achievement, maybe. the constitution. what we had was a country that was growing unstable for any article in the confederation. and what's madison did in the

constitution in this idea they would create a stable environment. they were credited for the economy that we have today for the vital economy that the united states has. but madison's role in giving businessmen and the rest of us a stable environment to live was a major contribution. >> what precedence did james madison said during his presidency? >> he set a said an important os the commander-in-chief. there was a movement going on in the northeast they particularly didn't like the war. they hated the war because it

was very damaging to that part of the country economically. there was a talk of secession and even some organizations towards the secession. there was a banana effort to strengthen the loans for the war by going after the people so i think when madison refused to put down that kind of protest. even though in my opinion a lot of it plus, i think that he said a veryimportant precedent his countrymen appreciate it. he knew fighting for the republic that he didn't want to suppress those rights as the

republic had been created in part to protect. so that's it. >> which president of the last century with unique way to james madison? >> new question. [laughter] >> it is a good question. but i find myself as a historian thinking that you have to take the founders and abraham lincoln and put them in an entirely different category. not because they were different people, but because the challenges they face are so enormous. it's hard to think of somebody like franklin pierce. maybe you could include franklin roosevelt in there. you look at the presidents that face existential challenges.

what they were doing didn't work out they would go to their republic. the founders faced that kind of sexist and shall challenge and i think that n. grains themselves in a national story becaus the e they are overcoming the challenges they face. lincoln faced about and i think you could say franklin roosevelt did, too. >> may be roosevelt in terms of the challenges that he faced and overcame. >> about medicines -- he was only 5 feet four. he was our shortest president and i wanted to know in your research did you find that he had any trouble because of that and especially with regard to his relationship with women. as you know younger than he was

coming at mr. vice president, i wanted to ask you about bald presidents. presidents. [laughter] spinet eisenhower in the last 750 years -- and i was wondering if you think there's going to be anymore. [laughter] your self as a partially bald vice president. >> if i may go first. [laughter] >> i've always behaved in the principle of my good friend al simpson. he used to say we all have so many poor poohormones if you wae yours growing hair go ahead.

[laughter] >> you mentioned how important it was to madison's freedom of conscience. so i'm wondering how you feel about the fact that the whistleblower that exposed the torture program is the only one sitting in prison for it. >> excuse me, please finish. >> othe supreme court has wrestled with this. you are welcome to believe anything you want to it yo and e welcome to say almost anything but what you can't do is violate national security ordinances that would endanger the country. edward snowden is a case in point. he is a traitor and i think that it is so -- it does not bode well for our society that he is being valorized for having betrayed his country.

[applause] [inaudible] >> i'm sorry, you need a microphone. >> maybe this is off point. [applause] >> i respect your right to speak your mind but i also reserve the right for myself no but to answr your question. [applause] >> in the back of the room here. >> you spent five years living with in addition to the vice president living with james madison. can you talk about -- stanek and the other 45.

[laughter] >> can you talk about where are the papers and if you could ask him, james madison today one question that emerged from the research what would have question be? >> it is a puzzler and i would have to think about that. the papers are in different places. you have to travel a little bit and go to princeton because they are in published papers and you have to go to philadelphia. there are unpublished papers about the presbyterian historical society. but 30 volumes of the papers are online. they have been digitized and they've done a wonderful job of digitizing them. it's been done by the university of virginia said they got that. research is so much easier now than it has been before.

if i was the chairman of the national endowment for the humanities at a time, and i used to be appalled at some of the things that we funded but if they were to increase the budget so they could make the funding of the founders papers and digitize them that could be a good expenditure. i can't give you a serious answer. i just have to think about what i would ask madison. so m why not serious answer i would say how tall were you? [laughter] his favorite aide said no, 5-foot six. there is a confusion about whether he was trying to be flattering. i am 5-foot tall. i think i would have been just fine. [applause] >> a young man in singapore and is a student at pepperdine university. >> my name is jacob young.

is there a particular piece that may be the history books are missing that you think there's not enough information on or you would be more interested in learning about? they said nothing about that. he was a politician that had burned the traits not speaking before you need it to and being respectful to your elders when you were a politician is not speaking carelessly. madison spent a great deal of his life cleaning up after jefferson who was prone to speaking carelessly. so the fact that he wasn't shy i spent a lot of time showing that in the book and in fact he wasn't and then basically saying, that was imported, too to get rid of them -- the myth

that he could barely get out of bed. you could see this vital politician and i think the idea of being shy has damaged his reputation and i hope that my book will do something to restore it. >> a gentleman from california quickly. >> where did you go on your first date? [laughter] >> we actually went to a formal probe by one of the high school girls social club's. we went with some good friends and she did wear an amazing formal gown. after, we stopped in what is referred to as the c. hill.

[laughter] it gets better. we hadn't been there very long when we discovered some friends of ours including someone that detailed her before i did have snuck up and let the a or out of the tires on the car. [laughter] so we spent a lot of time creeping back down to the filling station so we could get a hair in the tires and then of course we were in danger of violating the curfew. [laughter] >> we didn't violate it. >> i was concerned at that point we violated the curfew on the first date and would be in trouble with somebody. but the great thing in which respect is that her mother was a secretary to the police chief and we didn't make a move that night that haven't been reported to her at home. [laughter]