if there is no further business without objection the committee is adjourned

>> real agenda is a powerful mechanism. part of human society is figuring out who is us and who is that man who is my group and who is the outgrowth. outgrowth. greenwich and answers that pretty easily. if you pray like me and eat like me, if you go to the same church that i do, then you are asked and if you don't then you are then. you can see very easily how that kind of in group and outgroup mindset can easily lead to extremism and marginalization. religion may be the most powerful form of identity formation that just as powerful is violence. who do you know who is us and

then? if you are fighting against me, you are then so far from the religion and violence they have as everyone knows then much more aligned than we would like them to be.

literature discussed the education gap and the way that parents and teachers can enhance educational experience. he and his wife started a foundation that gives scholarships to inner-city students and he's also the author of i got schooled speaking at the national press club this is 50 minutes. [applause] thank you very much for having me. that was a gracious introducti introduction. forgive me for a second because yesterday i was editing movies and base jumping between two lives here it was at the end of the day at the screening and we were going through all the changes of the editor and you have a washington, d.c. talk and i was like my gosh. i went home and looked at my notes and i'm a little sluggish so just forgive me for a second.

let me just start by saying celebrity activists make my stomach cringe so let's just start there. you don't automatically get the right to have advice or give advice on something because you were successful at something else. that makes no sense at all that you do have a spotlight on you sometimes and i think that is how it gets blurred. in my case it's something i'm really sensitive about so it's not something i've always said graciously know to being asked to being promoted to this or that so this is very unusual for me and in fact it came really organically as mentioned. this buried without this is a citizen. we went and -- i live in philadelphia and i needed

something to be personal. our foundation i foundation doef amazing work around the world and to generally speaking they will come and say we are hoping this community in africa and india and i would be interested but i am not the one getting activated and they are and my wife says promise particular subject i got hit and basically i spent the last five years on planes on evenings and weekends writing and researching and working with the team to come to this book which is kind of an organic anything good has come without an agenda. i wanted to learn so i feel it on behalf of the single mom of the inner-city child i wanted to be the one with the resources to get the information. that's really all it was about at the end of the day and still today. so what happened was mark

wahlberg was the principal in the schooandthe school and we se two schools and one was this incredibly vibrant school and then i got in the van to the location and went four minutes away and went to another school and this is the worst thing that you could imagine. the usual metal detectors, the kids were just not in a good place and the even showed me this classroom the janitor had to unlock the classroom door and the top floor was shut down their estimates of drugs and sex so they crammed them onto three floors instead of four. it was damage control and someone set fire. this was my city and i was really upset. this is kind of symbolic. i walked into this vibrant

school and as soon as i walked in all of the kids came rushing over. the teachers came out and it was like a paper and possibility of a movie being made out was on the tip of their tongue and they were ready and in this other school the kid walked up to me, literally looked at me, kind of recognized me and decided that's not possible and kept walking and was very symbolic because anything is possible. no warning. a filmmaker walks in. they are going to make a movie in our schools. the other kid i'm standing in front of him and it's just not fair and it's very symbolic of what's been done to these kids, so i said alright all right i t to know the answers to this. very simple i said let's go to

the place in the united states where they have inner-city education for low income kids. they go out and they look. fascinating pieces of information for me so then i said let me just ask questions. the one thing about being known a little bit is you can call people and say are you the head of this in california or colorado will you have dinner with me and can i ask you questions and so we started doing that and i said i came here and everywhere and met with everybody at the time that was at the top places in education. what works i said? and they would give me their list. acg x. y. and i would go to the next and to see what works in education. a. l. m. c.. and i kept doing it in every list was different. i come from a family of doctors, so when we say is smoking bad

for you, everyone says the same thing. an evidence-based fields of this is very confusing for me and i said i'm completely confused about the information i'm getting paid i just want the information and this point you could normally give up. it didn't want to do that. let's gather the information. i missed one. a lot of important people from philadelphia, the top people in the ceos and activists and we had a little get together like this. i said i want to learn about education. it was so heated tha it immediay became this incredibly heated thing and this is my first of the million. the charter school people were like this and that and the pockets of the politicians it over here everybody was trying

to stake on and they were saying home down and i was like wow so i began asking the same question. question. so someone would see charter schools. so that's the answer and they would say yeah. send me the data. they said we will send it to you. the next morning i got to my office and there is a brochure for a charter school and i was like that's not what i asked you for i said send me the data that says they outperform and i'm your poster child so that became the pattern of bleary information and have knowledge and panic ghetto movement so we found our purpose as a foundation.

our job is to gather all of the data and we are going to put it on one table and they say this is what you do to stake with the we are going to do that so we spent two years we got researchers and we gathered all the information and it was a really difficult problem to have process standards of what was the study that counted and we didn't want one study because you could cherry pick anything that you wanted. so we gathered everything two years later meeting. i don't understand that. it told me so i can tell it to a parent in a day what a show me the things. two years later we looked at it and we had basically a comprehensive look at not everything but thousands of studies on the table and it was a big blurry pile. whatever the confirmation bias

was that's where i was. now basically at the same position as the people that i called and said the experts can i talk to you and what do you know. i didn't want to be one more opinion than this. no opinion. what did we learn from all this? what a brilliant doctors. we were not talking about education at all. they were the head of the residence at the university penn hospital and he was saying he goes too far for advice.

here's what he said. you should've told your patience if they view these five things pay attention to your mental health. your body is naturally healthy but if you don't have a one of them it goes back to it was like a house moment and that is the case it was that moment and it literally that's it, it's the system. you're going to get a lot of false negatives getting a group

of things together always works to close the education gap. by the way that is what we are talking about education gap, the education gap is just for those of you that are not clear on it. 98% of the group is african-american. the gap that existed in almost every state except for hawaii and we will get into that has been there and continues to be fair anthere and isn't getting r and it's always been there. is there evidence that a group of things can close the gap? so we went back and this is how we are going to look at the da data. was it always positive? we are always rigorous about this it is a negative reaction that's not what we are saying

here. if that is what is so hard to categorize that is what it is. how to think about something. you know if you dropped it on the treadmill, that means exercising is bad for you? know, you were smoking and then you dropped dead on the treadmill. it wasn't a bad thing that you have to recategorize that. then you get things. blue and behold it became organized and we stared at it and we were like wow, this is consistent. this is consistent for the first time i'm absolutely clear and then i said let's check our answers, so we did. let's go to every school and a

check and see what they are doing by closing the gap and we pray that they were doing these things and. by the trial into the error andn their own learning process and does individuals that can figure it out intuitively, they figured it out. that's where they are and they put together a group and i'm going to tell you what they are. it's a fascinating thing. there is no particular order. the first is what leadership looks like so in the schools closing on the education gap, they are the principles they are bifurcated into the principles and 80% of their time teaching teachers.

they teach the teachers 8% of the time. so it is like a coach that isn't coaching the players. in these schools they are doing teacher instruction basically that's handling the facilities and paperwork and a discipline, you mention it. the coach, coaches, teachers. that's what it looks like. nobody succeeds in isolation. you don't want to have one teacher that's great and/or the end of it. the other thing that leadership looks like in the schools and it's still in the first tier is that they have been incredibly loud and consistent culture. that's what you find in all of these books. now this is amazingly critical. when i was telling you they were also heated they were like school spirit, right clicks.

it's in schools. and it is a messaging that is happening. what are we talking about? my opinion. this is the first opinion that i'm saying to you by the way. this is about racism. okay? our country was built on the same. fact. it was condoned until the 60s officially. fact. we are imagining it disappeared. but that influence has disappeared. i will show you each and everything in the data that was the would save you. the problem doesn't exist in the schools. it exists outside of the schools. what happened to them outside of the school is what the data says and we always think about this

issue like what wrong with our inner-city schools, nothing. they are incredibly loud and consistent. we are going to shoot one louder and it is a messaging thing that they are teaching to kids and everyone has to buy in on it. it is and you get to do something positive and you get to a different thing positive. everyone buys into the leaders and it is always an empowering message and it is never the same in the schools grade but it is consistent from the secretary to the it person to have every teacher and everyone in the law hhe leaves us and gives us this message 100% consistent and clear to the second that they walk in and out to the point some of them have their own code so that they have to feel like they own it so the achievement

of in brooklyn they don't crackle when somebody does well, they do this. it's shining. did you get a good answer, guess what when they go to fourth grade he doesn't have a different system that they have to master that teaches them that they are not empowered. that is what the message is out there. this is consistent. you can make your choice to do your homework or this or that or whatever you want. they start to realize i did this and i got 37 turned into 57. i wonder how much more i could literally start to see and downward like that. this is the thing. it's not a classroom. it's the school. you cannot give you this way. that is what the one works like.

the other is about realizing the importance of teaching and this one i'm going to be sensitive about because this is the one that gets at abused. a teacher in the 80th percentile like one of the best teachers in the correlation of achievement, student surveys and observation because those things correlate the best we got right now is that it puts you in the 80th percentile. you can close the gap by your self to get back for four years. that's how good you are you can overcome everything that society is doing and everything is four years. now at the very bottom of that group if you get one of the lowest ranking teachers in that group had three good teachers in a row can't make up for one year of that one. that's how much you slide from

that so what you find in the schools is the lowest number of teachers. they are goal is the majority of all teachers should be able to work in the system. i may 20th percentile teacher you are going to observe me and give me the curriculum and to do all these things that make me get event. you're going to get one year of education and close the gap in a year and a half, two years so in the schools right now you find it almost mutual at that point because the rigor of what i'm saying on both sides are usually

like this isn't for me. they come to that decision. these inner-city low income schools but overall 18%. this is only apply it to 18% of the schools you need to be trained like a navy seal. that is the reality. you can be an mep and help all of us with amazing things you just can't be in one of those schools. that's the reality. they need a different system and approach. and if you are one of the few that wants to be in the navy seals god bless you there's a lot of other schools you can go to so that is the second tier. the third one is data.

johnny did this in his third-grade year. that event data. it's an incredibly intense atmosphere of best practices in every form you can think of, curriculum, teaching best practices. mrs. smith taught second grade, goes on a cloud and everyone talks about it. best practices again. what the amazing teacher david now i could adopt as a behavior. it's almost the reverse because i tell you i was an artist and i'ilike there's no way you're telling me. don't me how to make a movie that's crazy. yet that isn't what this is. this is like a system like i said, you know, knowledge has

been built up over time, amazing, amazing people and we don't have to be jam band have to teach these kids. you know, you can learn from everybody else in the schools that would give incredibly prescriptive to the point that it's almost like a military school. those are the facts, the consistency and best practices in the curriculum in and out of these classrooms. you didn't acknowledge him over there. you should speak of little louder and move back to the front. don't let them check out. they are doing this well and focus on that and he's having trouble with this or whatever it is and they are getting 11

times, 16 times there is an incredible kick up in the achievement from 11 to 16 so if you gave up ten it's like dropping dead on the treadmill it seems like a false negative. you didn't know this information for the principles and everything. it's much data over time constantly reinforcing where the kids are for someone like me that is not intuitive as it is. right-click your telling me where am i. you need to focus on this okay i will hope that. and they are getting the data constantly that you should see this. everyone has to be trained how to give the data and use the data and it's nonnegotiable. mrs. jenkins cannot opt out. you are trained as a navy seal l and have a code of conduct in the situations about how to do this. so that is the third tier.

fourth is more time. here's the amazing thing i was telling you about. here's the thing. in the summer when johnny -- let's pretend he's the same as xavier -- i'm just making up names -- they are equal in the second grade when they graduate in june they come back in september and the inner-city child is three months behind from what they were in june and xavier is one month ahead. they are four months apart. not in school from the messaging that they are getting into the stimulation and the question. all those little things we don't realize that we are constantly teaching our kids all the time we are teaching them something. this group is getting after into this group is getting stimulated. the gap is two thirds of the gap that exists from grammar school

all the way through high school is happening in the summer. you can't close the gap without getting into the summer do little but closing the time. you want them in school as much as you can with different messaging that means in every direction so when you look at this in the book it early education gets in the starting gate at the right level and now it dissipates if that's all you did after three years it gets back into that shows you they are going to start longer days for our and a half extra days, an hour and a half extra is like 48 extra days of school. it's massive and then they go to the summer and they have a longer school years and that is enough to close the gap. it stops it from sliding like

that. they can stay equal with xavier over here. now this is a side of thing. we supportethings.we supported n philadelphia who does a summer program. he takes five weeks and intensely trains them in reading and curriculum that he came up with and he works with parents and in those five weeks he gets a 3.2 reading month gain surveyor six months ahead of their peers. and this is the best part they are two months ahead of xavier. this isn't about ability as we all know and i hope everyone knows that. this is about knowledge, teaching them out of that message and all that stuff. you cannot win without that. you might as well not do anything. whatever you gain is going away.

the last thing that is fascinating is small schools. by itself it raises graduation rates. it has no effect on achievement. everything mentioned the intensity of what we are talking about, the culture, the data can only be done in a small school. the principal is responsible it's going to get dissipated. the schools are closing the gap is a 550 or less so that's what it looks like it looks like the picture of the five and they are all doing these five things. ..

the first everything in this country, these african-american kids. they put their arms and they came up with a series of tests, the same group. because back then it was open when those kids walked out that they're getting their message. right now we're pretending that messaging doesn't exist at all. it are 100% giving this messaging. my kids go to an all girls school info dump which i consider one of the best schools in philly. the inner-city kids that go

there, they have vocabulary, they pretend they're not interested in certain things. they survive because you can't exist in that environment. there's a messaging coming. so it's a fascinating thing. very hopeful by the way because the data makes sense. thank you very much. i'd love to hear tons of questions from you guys, thanks. [applause] >> it will be a year this fall that the book first came out. how is that helping to change the education landscape for minority? >> you know, it's amazing to answer this question because we cannot handle the amount of opportunities that have come from the book. we have had states and cities and everything saying, we want

to use what you've laid out in the book, help us write legislation, talked to our congress, talk to this, doctor that. it's been an incredible thing. so much so i guess to be honest i thought i would write the book and go back to milking films. i was like, no, you guys now take the david and go do that stuff. -- data. i'm finding myself in the middle of all these conversations both here and in d.c. and in all the different states and cities, philadelphia as well we're having a big conversation in philadelphia, how to isolate in legislation these schools, these 18%. by the way, probably someone will ask this, there's 7% of the united states schools that are low income urban schools. does this apply to those 7%? this is my guess, yes. the data is not related to the. i can't say categorically yes. my guess is yes, that you did

that for some% you get the same of results but this is about inner-city, the inner-city low-income kids. amazing amount of opportunities. i'm a little daunted by it to be honest but we kind of put together at least in philly a think tank of going to say this is what legislation would look like. how do we implement it on skill? the number one thing that the first thing that becomes the question is, let's say philadelphia, the number of schools that this applies to is 118. i need 118 principles that are navy s.e.a.l. trained. so that's the problem. the first question to be answered, since i can get 118, the pyramid, all that ever the stuff, i think we can get extended today. i think we can do all these things in fully. i need 118 navy s.e.a.l. principles to train the navy s.e.a.l. teachers in the school.

>> have you encountered resistance to your ideas? and if so, what kind and from whom? >> i was certainly braced for the barrage of resistance. if my wife where she would tell you i'm completely naïve about all these things. i see things, you know, the last three quarters full when it's half-full. we haven't really had it, to be honest. because here's what the data says. both sides are right and wrong. i can say to you, it's weird how the room broke out. there's two sides. picture side kind of thing. we walk in, you're either with the unions or the pro-education reform group. i'm with neither. i did want to do what the data says and the data says everyone has been completely unfair to givegive and responsible to the teachers and principals in those

schools. you haven't trained them and you're holding them responsible. this was the data set. accountability alone, zero. this is not about motivation. that's what's so insulting. they get upset, they are just not motivated, let's pay them more. they will get motivated. zero. let's hold them responsible or penalize them. zero effect on student achievement. you have to give them knowledge, trained him before he holds them responsible. in terms of why did the circle the wagons over here? they are being unfairly held accountable. they want to do this. thethey haven't been dream. no one has said to them, you have to teach differently. no one has said that. that teacher is failing and the school and the teacher succeeding and the white suburban school, switch them, they will fail over here and succeed over. a great teacher over here will fail unless they do the navy should stuff we're talking about. it's a fascinating thing.

>> what do you think about the controversy over common core? what does it say about attitudes towards local control and resistance to uniform standards and about our ability to improve our education system on a national scale? >> again, this side that's very upset about being blamed can read into everything that is pejorative, every movement is being made is but jordan. i kind of read it that way as well a little bit. this one is blurrier. setting standards but as i told you, prescription is critical in these schools. curriculum for example, like early childhood curriculum has enormous, enormous effect on kids. it's a fact that it's off the chart. if you teach a kid a particular book versus another book in early childhood, by the time they get to kindergarten and first grade, it's enormous difference the correct curriculum can have. curriculum throughout is

definitively, data says, it works. so on that front it is correct in spirit to raise the standard with data-driven curriculum. the messaging that's coming from that is, because you suck, we are going to teach you, show you how to teach. that's the messaging that i'm getting and has never shifted. so you're doing something kind of correct but you're doing it in a kind of spitting at them kind of way. it has really changed. almost everything is about, how do we motivate these teachers and principals? that's not what the data says. >> you talk about eliminating the worst teachers and keeping kids in school or longer as pillars of your strategy. in south korea teachers are paid based on demand for their skill. it's essentially a free market for teaching talent and the students are routinely ranks among the top in the world. should the united states take a page out of south korea's

playbook? >> no. [laughter] >> you can use any data outside the united states and consider it valid. finland, for example, as, was not built on slavery, has no racial inequality, the highest economic year and the lowest economic year are 5.6 times difference. very small difference. ours is 16, 17 times. ours has a problem of messaging. our issue is we're telling these kids they are worthless, that they have no value in this country. that's what is being told. this isn't about just education but it's about messaging pics of these things is correcting a sin that our particular country has. there's probably a similar one in england, probably in someplace like that. it's not in finland. using the data, what best practices are from other countries, is dangerous because it's not correct for our -- it's not acknowledging our responsibility, what we in this

room are telling our children in the inner-city. >> a california judge ruled monday that teacher tenure violates students rights to a good education. what do you think, does it? >> again, what is the messaging we are sending to the country and to the teachers, right? tenure is, some extent, is a little bit backwards based on what data says. the data says you cannot tell whether a teacher is good or bad, for the first three years. so if you're getting tenure in your second, after your second year, just what i can tell you are terrible, you are in for life, right? so it's reversed. you should be tenured for three years.

geoffrey canada was a terrible teacher his first year. should he have been fired? everyone is bad. it's an art form. it's like, that's what the data says. you can't tell. you cannot tell but it takes three years to get it, they find, the church connect with the kids. it's an art form. that's a fascinating thing. now, after that tenure, after that, ironic i know this will sound strange, data says it's not all that important. we want most of the teachers to be there working anyway. the extremely terrible teachers at that point could be weeded out after three years and then the rest of them, they all had to stay anyway. we need them all. this is not a vital, important issue. so strange but again as you can see, even if the word -- violate their could you say that, they violated? [inaudible] >> tenure violated. come on.

you know, that doesn't say it's your fault. i don't know what else does. again, this is if we could say, you know, in a perfect world, right now all the rules are set to contain bad behavior. that's what all the rules are set for, as opposed to the flourishing of best practice. so let's say that mrs. so-and-so is an amazing teacher. she should be able to gauge, first one up to get assistant pretzel. everything should be flourishing. bad action has been proven to cause retention and school achievement to go way up. that's in there. it isn't the things we think it is provided with think they're motivated by pay more than those? teachers are most, unselfish people that are out there working. you raise their pay. after a certain necessity, that isn't the mujahideen fading -- motivating factor. all of the things that would

motivate us. that's what it says but yet this conversation about tenure is confusing to me because that's not what the data says we should be talking about. teach them how to be navy seals, and then hold them accountable. and then give them whatever you want, tenure and all that. >> what can we do to get parents more involved in their children's education? >> okay. so as we kind of implicated here, or we talked about lightly, the messaging outside the school is not great. critical. when all the studies, look at the studies, those homes, inner-city low income are speaking millions of words less per year than i income homes. all of that stuff. there are no books on the shelf, no messaging, all that stuff. in the data that i had for the book, i didn't have enough data to say that changing the home

environment categorically will help us close the achievement gap. i can tell you from being in the trenches at talking and singing of data so far to tell you, i guarantee you that will be the sixth one. you know how i'd -- i couldn't get it. it's there. it's about to be proven or i will give you a for example. abc derry project out of north carolina in the early '70s with early childhood education edited quality childhood education which i told you when it's done really well, it and not just the chart for three years and that's it. and this one thing into the home every two weeks atop the parents how to do homework with the kids. that's all they did. one hour every two weeks. those kids when tracked all the way through high school were graduate at much higher rates, going to college at much higher rates, succeeding at much higher, much, much less dropout rate or everything you can

imagine. the home environment had changed. it had been changed, the possible have been change. they were unoccupied for the rest of their lives. that's how powerful, and don't have those pieces of data? i just don't have enough. i know it in the next five years there'll be enough data to say we did this just like a told you, you have to do together and we had an exponential kick. only good can come from involvement in. can a mandate it for these schools? no. this goes under the premise of if the home environment does not change, can you close the achievement gap? the answer to that is categorically yes. >> hollywood has a major influence over young americans and how they view the world. to television and films send messages that make students the value with education? and if so how could hollywood use its influence in a positive way?

>> i haven't really thought about this answer. i guess they are two separate parts of my brain, moviemaking and education. we are doing i guess in general we're getting the same messaging as everybody else, you know, how many african-american intellectuals do we see in the movies? we always have morgan freeman as the president, i will give you that last night but beyond that and the sci-fi morgans morgan freeman is the president, but what's the normal thing when, you know, what's the messaging i'm guilty of it, everyone is guilty of works we are playing on social -- social norms that is what we expect from this group. the messaging is a societal thing and we're conflicted in it for sure. i don't how much we can change it. it's a difficult question. >> breathe related or a follow-up.

as you know film has the power to reflect and influence society. we noticed the increasing violence in films. where will it end? will movie fans reject this, or will we likely have to see the code reintroduced? >> yeah, it's a funny thing when we do -- again i'm not an expert on violence in films. education gaps, that's all of them for five years. a funny thing, when we go get our thumbs rated around the country, the united states is super prudish about sex. by gosh, you showed a breast. like that kind of -- the rest of the world, sexuality is not a thing nonviolence is the thing. here you can give any amount of people, pg. bring the kids. not a problem. decapitation, not a problem. it's a fascinating cultural thing when we are so desensitized to violence. and even glorified it, to some extent. that kind of thing.

it is different in other countries. they will have problems with violence in my movie and that's what they have issues with. it's an interesting societal thing. >> questions about your filmmaking career. how did you work with cinematographer on the sixth sense and later on signs affect the general tone of the and visual style of the film? >> a big turn in there. i'm a big fan of japanese cinema and japanese art in general. we really got along. he shocked silence of the lambs. that's one of my favorite movies. he does ironically american gothic really well. beautiful dark. minimalism, they make you feel like a normal room, not like the fans and things like that. so i learned a lot from him and he's done three of my movies i

think. it's more about the japanese cinema of it being subtle. if he comes to our house, very light, everything is very minimal. nooo minimal. not too much furniture, that kind of thing. my brain gets a little messed up with toooo much stimuli. >> as a writer, at what point it at any time do you collaborate? is it usual a gut when you conceive a new idea and? >> it's been fascinating. i tried something different. i'm doing an independent film, and not trying to be anyway assign a filmmaking. to me i'm so easily influenced by hate, would you do this? and with this movie basically i tried to do in a way to get back to my got to understand what am. and hearing my own -- my own voice a bit but it was scary and tenacity and maybe not unrelated to education. we teach them to listen to the voice and feel empowered an

artist i guess when and if it does form listen to themselves. i do think that are technically difficult it i did not playback when the shooting the movie. when i shot the scene i didn't go look at it and see if i did it well. that's normal. i didn't do that. i would go, we need to do this again. we need to begin. the cinematographer, no, we got it. we need to do it again. out of the mouth comes a thing i did know, on that line you need to come forward. this isn't about anger, whatever it is. quietly in that vein and even so, like with the script i was very quie quite with it. i held onto it and really go, something is wrong, something is wrong. what's wrong? toco hey, what's wrong? even if you give me the correct answer, i lost, right? i need to go, what's wrong? what's wrong? what's wrong? just like the body, your knee hurts. it's not your knee, it's your

hip. but as an expert in the field, as a doctor would go if not your knee. is your hip. to go, that scene is not working to it's not that scene. and to get to the place where you're going and then the final thing was when you have to make a decision and you won't get everybody, and have peace about that for a second and go, i'm sorry, it feels correct. the color feels correct this way. i had to do that. to have the courage to do that to know why you are doing that. not being rebellious, but this is true -- hopefully when you see them of you my sense a kind of clarity of voice. you don't have to like it but you'll since clarity that wasn't done by committee. >> we are almost out of time, but before asking the last question we have a couple of housekeeping matters to take

care of. first of all i'd like to remind you about our upcoming events and speakers. on june 22, congressman john dingell of michigan will discuss when congress worked. july 22, dr. thomas friedman, director for the centers for disease control will address concerns about numbers mac virus and other key health issues. august 1, the president of the republic of congo will discuss peace, security and stability of the central african region and oil investment in his country. next, i'd like to present our guest with their traditional national press club mug. >> thank you. >> i don't know whether used for good coffee or good shot, but we thank you for your visit today. finally, for the last question, what is your favorite movie of all time? and why? >> tough question at the end.

gosh. i mean, there's probably a new genre, a new movie. probably, if i'm being -- taking everything into account, i think the godfather is the best film ever made on every level. should i tell you why? you asked why, right? >> yes. in journalism we teach who, what, where, when and why spend why is a perfect balance between what seems normally for an artist the burden of entertainment, the burden of keeping you activated but it came organically from the concept and the incredible artistry. originally francis aside because he could get the talent. and what i find often is like authors to speak a little bit more, you know, i don't want to say commercial because that's pejorative but into a vein

that's a little bit more for everybody, end up not letting go of their voice. a. dupree specifically and they thought francis was crazy they thought the way he was doing it, giving it such drama in treating the subject with such clarity, and everyone followed suit and fodder for subtlety. al pacino, they're going to fire him. they're going to find about three weeks into the shoot, he was so quiet. then they saw th the scene where does the assassination, and they were like, oh, that's what he's doing. they taught us all about subtlety and did he manage to every character, even felons. and empowering story. really, it's in my room now. >> thank you, mr. shyamalan. how about a round of applause? [applause] >> the president and first lady are returning from california this afternoon. according to white house

officials, president obama has directed his staff to draft an executive order that would ban workplace discrimination against gay, lesbian and transgender employees of federal contractors. the senate last year passed imin act we could make it illegal for employers to fire someone based on their sexual orientation or gender identity. that bill has stalled in the u.s. house. both chambers of congress are in session this week at the senate returns at 2 p.m. eastern today. at 5:30 p.m. members woody guthrie district court nominations, and later this week the senate will work on bills to fund the federal government including the departments of transportation, commerce, housing and a culture. watch the senate in just over one hour here on c-span2. the house is back in tomorrow with work on a number of suspension bills. later in the week the house expected to take up a senate passed bill dealing with veterans access to health care. live coverage of the house is on

c-span. with majority leader eric cantor announcing last week that he would be stepping down next month as majority leader after his primary election defeat, houshouse republicans this weeks elect new leadership. majority whip kevin mccarthy of california faces off against idaho congressman raul labrador. the elections to be conducted by secret ballot with the winner needing a majority of the republican caucus. >> cable in the '90s, when a lot of the current rate of tort and vibrant to death over 90% of the market. today, the cable industry only has a little over 50%. the business has matured and i think you either have to do two things. after lower cost, keep your margins could come for you to find new sources of revenue. i think you are attacking both of those to focus on the revenue side. i think, one, looking for new ways to delight and older consumers. so if you look at comcast, and i think that's the x1 platform,

use of your demand, interface is more delightful. number one, don't lose what you have. innovate, keep what you have. you also see them taking advantage of broadband. that is a blessed source of new business opportunity for our industry. it is growing much faster. it still has a huge market. it has good economics, and it's a good business. >> the rapid change in telecommunications, technology advances and the future of the cable industry with national cable and telecommunications associate president michael powell tonight at eight eastern on "the communicators" on c-span2. >> coming up, a look at the influence of senator in 1964 presidential candidate barry goldwater on today's republican party, libertarianism and the tea party. cohosted by so cal low public square and arizona state

university, this is one hour. >> and now it is my great pleasure to introduce our moderator, mr. brahm resnick. [applause] >> brahm resnick is an anchor and reporter for 12 news in phoenix and moderator of the political talk show 12 noon sundays square. is reported on politics and government at the local, state and federal levels and has covered every policy issue of consequence in arizona from education to immigration. please give him a very warm welcome. [applause] >> great to be here. welcome to you all. canyon in the backwoods everything looking find? good. let's start by introducing our panel tonight. to my right, robert robb became an editor or columnist for the "arizona republic" in 1991.

is collins generally appear three times a week, wednesdays, fridays and sundays. he also proudly served as a distinct associate for the morse institute at asu. robert robb. [applause] >> in the center is david weigel, political reporter for slate recovers congress can elections and voting rights and they come. for most of his career started at reason magazine in 2006, he covered the conservative movement. is one of the first reporters to embed with ron paul's president to campaign -- shout out for ron paul. [laughter] a few more of those tonight. and reported from the first tea party rally in 2009. david weigel. [applause] >> and to my far right historian michael rubinoff has been an issue faculty member for 17 years. he first interviewed barry

goldwater as a little boy back in january 1969 when goldwater was resuming his senate career in washington. they met several more times over the years including for one of the final interviews the senator granted before his retirement in 1986. michael rubinoff. [applause] >> so before i ask thes ask of e custom questions i've a few questions for you folks. how many people in the audience voted for barry goldwater at least once? [laughter] >> did anybody vote for him in 1964? two in the back. any gold -- goldwater from the members in the audience tonight? i heard barry junior is out of town. he was yesterday. good, so we can say whatever we want.

[laughter] it seems were having a libertarian moment here in the united states. senator rand paul is being taken seriously as a potential candidate for president after his dad ron paul qaeda clear some of the way for his son. libertarians on the right and liberals on the left say i taught on protecting privacy and legalizing marijuana. it's a very appealing mix for younger voters and many others. this is the moment are goldwater helped to create because i don't think there's any question about that, both the historically important barry goldwater who wrote conscious of the conservative and ran for president in 1964, established sort of a libertarian viewpoint on economic matters and limited government, and a proper sense of federalism. the later barry goldwater and

his reaction against the religious right helped lead the way to libertarianism on social issues, which has formed sort of the mix that does appeal to younger audiences, and also to what has been historically one of the swing votes in american politics, people who are economically conservative but socially progressive. >> i've mentioned, david mentioned rand paul at the outset. i'd like to hear your thoughts on day. who do you think at the capitol today is the real air of barry goldwater? >> i do think rand paul is. he framed his politics in several ways to his detriment and to his advantage. more to his advantage because i think unlike goldwater, paul always expresses his version of libertarianism, of privacy rights, of a shrinking government as a way of reaching out to voters. he never calls it extremism.

he tells republicans that they've shrunk the party and the only way to reach out to young people is if you move away from social conservatives and things we were talking a. he repeats a goldwater's mistakes because if you go back to his infamous, still the biggest mistake is made in politics, when he stumbled about whether he voted for the civil rights act. he made exactly the same mistake that goldwater did in describing it not as something he would have opposed morally but something he didn't, he had problems with because he didn't like forcing, forcing people to do the right thing. he wanted them to have the right to do that themselves. that's exactly a goldwater put it in 1964 after robert bork and rehnquist made the argument him the whole civil rights act was opposition. so paul is the air in a positive way. he figured out a lot of what goldwater did pretty since quotable. a lot of the public's goldwater

mastered his master. make the same mistakes where he comes to the edge of libertarianism where he can't, he can't quite tell the voter he is curious and the not quite sure what they believe in, that he's going to protect their rights. >> is that a political stance? is that what he really believes? >> i think it is. i've talked to him a lot. i talked him into thousand eight and the 2000 campaign trail. is sort of a utopian, libertarian view of the world. it's more popular than when goldwater ran. i think will probably end up like more about the foreign policy side is so much easier and more popular for rand paul than it was for barry goldwater. he believes that, i think is goldwater believed, if you give people freedom, they're going to create a more perfect society, amorphous society than the government. he hasn't made a ton of mistakes

like the civil rights mistake since the. he learned. he's been aggressive at reaching out to groups that don't vote the republican party i think it's hard to correct the mistake but also he still believes that a person is convincing of those ideas are convincing. so again, some of the same lessons, same mistakes. more of the positive lessons i think have been imbued and rand paul. >> if barry goldwater walking in the halls of the capital today, what would he make of the place? [laughter] >> he would be disappointed. i think his problems would be stemming from the extreme partisan nature of today's senate come and gone was the collegiality that he had known when he came in in 1953. but i remember having a meeting related to goldwater with george mcgovern, and this was in 1986, and he said to me that the goldwater who came back to

washington after 1969 was far different than the goldwater who had been the crusading conservative senator and presidential candidate. he said he was once the most partisan of men, but he said after 19 safety for, he said something happened and he simply became different. and that's what probably maybe is what goldwater would differ a little bit with where things today because he wanted to get things done when he went back to washington for his last three terms. i think today he would say they are not getting anything done. >> did a little deeper on that because i think the common wisdom is carl hayden was the workers, barry goldwater was the show horse. i didn't see too many legislative accomplishments you can link to barry goldwater. correct me your dig deeper. what was it that changed in? was at the loss? it wasn't the defeat or something else going on? what about that legislative these? >> the goldwater biographer's, a

number of them, lee edwards, john judas, richard goldberg, have noted the shattering expense of the presence or campaign where people trashing the obliquity said everyone had said these things to me, and i believe that, i think he was changed by the tone of that campaign and i think when he went back to washington in his last 18 years back there, i don't think he said i would get something done. he always said to people i went into politics to pay the rent. he legislatively did that at the end of the screw with the change of the control structure of the pentagon with the nicholas goldwater act that he sponsored with senator don nickles of oklahoma. that change things in the pentagon so it is buildings are more smoothly to try to integrate all this, all the armed services as opposed to where it stood before 1986.

>> let's stay in the present. we will go back to the past in just a minute there i want to lecture everyone chance to ask questions a little bit on in our discussion. today, barry goldwater has become almost a totally hero to liberals. [laughter] they like to stan his stand on n rights. they like his stand on gay rights. in the last senate campaign richard carmona, democrat, trumpeted endorsement of a goldwater. to the liberals have it all wrong? [laughter] >> there are, there are three distinct phases of goldwater as a public figure and as a politician. the historically important barry goldwater, the author of conscious of "conscious of the " the presidential candidate in 1964, was very much a hard right libertarian conservative.

he advocated eliminating the federal role in agriculture and in education and in all social welfare programs. he also was an insurgent. he spoke scornfully and wrote scornfully about me to republicanism. even though he supported eisenhower over taft, he referred to eisenhower's warmed over a new deal is him. and so he was hard right and he was insurgent. he ultimately became an establishment republican figure, probably best illustrated by his endorsement of gerald ford over ronald reagan in the 1976 primary. and then at the latter part of his congressional, of his senatorial career, in reaction to the rise of the social right,

roe v. wade wasn't until 1973. the u.s. supreme court decision striking down school prayer was in 1962, so the historically important barry goldwater didn't really deal with those issues. and in 1980 he actually ran as a pro-life candidate. it wasn't until the latter part that he developed this antagonism towards the social right and its influence in the republican party. and then the third phase of his career, rather than totally, i would say as an iconic curmudgeon -- >> totally imagine. >> i don't know that anyone would ever describe barry goldwater as cuddly but he was an historically important figure, and the american people

over time developed an affection for those iconic characters, those important historical figures, even if they were busy denouncing them at the time that they actually have some degree of political importance. >> so they are remembering the later period, the blue period of barry goldwater. [laughter] >> michael, you follow these closely. do you agree with that speaks yes. i think he nailed it. there are several phases, but if there's one thing which i can pick up on what dave was saying with the rand paul type of stuff, barry goldwater, if you heard him prior to all this through the 19 safety for, he could speak with incredible indignation and self-righteousness which was noted in the making of the president 1964 by theodore h. white where he sound like an old testament type of profit. and if anybody probably close to

comes closest to that in a very i'm going to say in a calm and kind of way, it would be rand paul. and rand paul type of logic and build on his fathers want to logic, goldwater basically is following that. and people thought he was far right and probably for his time certainly that would be where it was. nelson rockefeller once said golda meir is the mainstream. it's a very meandering stream. [laughter] but there is -- cold water. rand paul to find a vet and it's a different age was coming, video being done. were as goldwater, he wasn't exposed until the media got on him and 64 and then bingo, we had all sorts of earthquakes. >> is% of all the kind of face of libertarianism? also, how does he handle the

social issues? >> going back to the way goldwater interpreted these, socialism didn't exist in the way they came to exist in his career until i guess the first thing roe v. wade, sake would be the backlash of education flight 97. so rand paul has been able to exist and that's all when the opposite has happened. the momentum, poll numbers, all the factors that made social conservatism limited to gay marriage, limited to abortion, all of that made a winning issue for that wing of the party, and rand paul has won elections in 2010. since been he has support for gay marriage, completely searching. he is gone the states that might is a whether to vote for him for president and a republican

primary and say up to you guys. were not going to run on the constitution anymore. the media happens to like that but he is riding a wave that goldwater didn't really get the right. -- get to ride. the media, the way goldwater dealt with immediate, that was presumed. the media coverage of goldwater, look at it from the 1990s, was always from the frame of one republican telling it like it was, then trying to inspect the same way that rand paul is able to handle it. the difference is rand paul is on the innocent and a republican part that worries if it is that harvard on social issues it can't win. >> let's bring up foreign policy now because that does seem to be a distinct difference between goldwater and paul. talk about that and how paul interprets it sticky always rejects the term isolationist the rand paul rejected it.

rand is more careful now. a lot of video he is in, really almost pre-associating his argument for whether, what america should intervene in, et cetera. he has really taken off again on the right i think sense people turned against the war in afghanistan, since people turn against the surveillance face. basically from 2009-2013. drone warfare when he started to talk about, not chairman on popular, not here been known. he managed to describe him as a theoretical opposition to, the first many africans thought about it. they might've been vaguely aware that spying was happening, vaguely aware that drones were being used in afghanistan that we are trying to our military. he put it in a framework that might not -- if you are a

republican meeting at the time to come up with the best message for the party can you probably wouldn't have come up with are going to americans that they should worry they might be targeted or spied on by this technology. but it's become quite popular. is actually, i go to lots of republican base and i found republican meetings, poverty, conventions, things like that attacking innocent, attacking approach to afghanistan, in mississippi the primary election is that, i we could a key part in these where they're trying to over the conservative senator and at the meetings would speak about how america shouldn't send people into a mission like afghanistan begin. paul has merged at the time -- emerged at the time and goldwater was run for president before really escalated vietnam. rand paul is emerging on the scene after 13 years of greater

intervention in the world, greater fatigue with that at home and putting it in a way that makes it immediately to libertarians. to this prize of a lot of people, stating it so effectively it becomes more popular. >> what did barry goldwater, the national security state seem to be living in? >> that's difficult to discern or predict. let me go back to where the natural libertarian position is. it is in isolation, not internationalism. if you support free trade and generous immigration which most libertarians do. but there was an interruption. that sort of the natural ground for libertarians in looking at

the u.s. role in the world, that we should return to the founders position of being a peaceful trading nation. but before libertarian conservatives in the 1950s until the collapse of the soviet union in the late 1980s, early 1990s, this was a different phrase. that expansionary communism was just different. and it required an aggressive u.s. response. and, in fact, barry goldwater and libertarian conservatives at the time objected to the bipartisan foreign policy of containment to try to keep the soviet union from expanding so that it would collapse naturally from its own internal contradictions. and instead advocated a liberation approach where we should actively be trying to undermine unemployment rate particularly the captive nations in eastern europe. so he was very much a

pro-security, anti-communist guy. and probably facing that threat would have constant fairly aggressive surveillance, including internally, but without that overwhelming threat, my guess is that his instinctive belief in individual freedom, and privacy, in chesterton's phrase, our right to all be our own potty cells. that today he would be where rand paul is. but if the security threat he felt was serious enough, and many conservatives believe that's true of terrorism, he might come to a different conclusion. >> we are going to go back in time now, and part of the fun for me in preparing for this is

i read conscious of a conservative for the first time, and also found the headline from barry goldwater's election to the senate in 1952 when he defeated then the senate majority leader ernest mcfarland, a democrat. this is the headline from the "washington post." heir age hustler toppled majority leader. there it is. heir age hustler. i'm not sure what they meant by hustler. slow talking, slow moving mcfarland and senator goldwater, the hustler kind of politician. fast-moving, fast thinking, modern in the air age sense. 1952. [laughter] once barry goddard a seed -- signatures achievement in arizona was bringing us the republican party today. wasn't it, michael? >> yes. 1950, howard pyle, they edged

out -- not an age when given arizona border inclined to vote for women governors which just shows how far we have come. but he did the same when he ran for u.s. senate in 1952. but one thing which a lot of people don't probably realize is goldwater was already well known from his grand canyon campaign -- camping movie that he did in color. it showed it all around the state right before world war ii, so that when he ran in 1952, people have known of very goldwater. arizona was a small population back then, and so we seem to be very techy and, of course, we know his hobby of doing ham radio and flying almost every jet aircraft that was in use fleet up to the time he retired. so he was, that was actually a fairly apt way of the "washington post" characterized them at a very early time. he was 43 years old.

>> talk about his impact on the republican party because he and a relatively small group in phoenix helped to remake the party. what did they see you? what did they do to make the republican party the fourth that it's become? >> well, his family background was that is all coal more is was a democrat in arizona legislature, but goldwater underwent some type of transition as it became a young man, goes into world war ii and comes out. and then when the phoenix city charter was redone after the war, he joined on the team and is elected to city council as harry rosen's wife and through a very interesting way of noting the fact that phoenix had been run rather corrupt, they all of a sudden made it very efficient. and they did it with slow taxes and create a more favorable this is climate come at along with people like eugene pulliam, bob's free current boss, and publisher of the republic way back along with walter benson and the whole cadre of people

have some vision, developers, john long among others who had this vision for phoenix and a very streamlined, postwar setting. and goldwater caught that spirit. admit it government off our backs, lean and mean. i don't know if that's so much libertarian or conservative. goldwater would prefer to use the word conservative which can get a wraparound by the time you get to 1960. so that yes, he transformed the republican party as he becomes almost an image of his own self and virtually of all the little goldwater goldwater's to get elected behind him and become governor condescended jack williams. it's like a small club which basically chose its officials and so forth in the rooms of the episcopal -- goldwater was baptized.

>> one of john rose's favorite stories was about barry coming to try to talk me into running for congress. and as john would relate the story, he told them, but i don't want to go to washington. and they said, don't worry about it, john, you won't win. [laughter] >> one of the interesting things about the postwar period, phoenix almost doubled in size. population not doubled, rose 50%, half million to three quarters or so. and all those new residents became republicans. >> not really. spent did they plant the seed? >> they definitely planted the seed. berry water and harry rosensweig revoked the political history of arizona. but republicans didn't actually

gain more registrants than democrats in arizona until the mid 1980s. so arizona was voted republican far quicker than attacks became registered republican as morality party. >> i want to take a closer look at goldwater's politics and start with the book conscience of a conservative. you said something michael that made me think and we're talking about barry goldwater the libertarian. this was a bunch of libertarians getting together. wasn't, to help put him on the national stage? >> in those days libertarian and conservative were nearly synonymous. the conservatism that was concocted in the hallways, the editorial around of "national review" had a very libertarian orientation. with a belief that a spiritual life was key to a successful

quality. and in conscious of a conservative, goldwater a code that sentiment. there were an atheistic economic libertarianism that dissented from that but it was very much a minority. it was until the department of the social issues over the 1960s and 1970s that the split between libertarians and conservatism and conservatives became pronounced and that the term seized to be almost some of the state care is the interesting thing in reading "conscience of a conservative." i thought if you are toward the cover off the book, give it to me without telling the road, when it was written, i would've said, gee, except for the military part, this reads like a tea party manifesto. it's almost word for word what will we hear today from the tea

partiers. am i wrong on that? >> not at all, and the notion that barry goldwater didn't leave the republican party, the republican party let's barry goldwater ignores the historically important barry goldwater who had been an advocate getting federal government entirely out of the fields of education and agriculture and welfare, and the conscience of conservative can express a point of view that what the constitution means isn't just up to the u.s. supreme court to decide, which is one of the believes of the tea party that is routinely denounced to show how out of touch they are. so yes, i think that the historically important barry goldwater has been lost in the remembrances of the iconic curmudgeons that he became later on in life. >> what do you think about that? the tea party -- is the tea party the true heir of barry

goldwater? >> one of the way lessons have been learned, a negative way in the popular imagination of the conservative activist i tried, but goldwater run broke the back of rockefeller republicans. they never quite built up the power again. they still haven't. the way george will always put it is, goldwater won the election but it took 15 years come to vote meaning he built up to reagan. with the leaves out is how -- there could've been a tea party manifesto but it doesn't mention the things that don't exist because they didn't exist yet because very goldwater hadn't run and led a landslide that brought in all of the great society democrats they gave us medicare, they gave us medicaid, the gives all the urban programs, that gave us a larger government that even reagan and george bush were not able to undermine. so one thing the tea party took from goldwater is if you come

one, take over the party structure and they do that issue than ever with the way money and politics works now, the way you can win a primary with reaching out to outside groups, you can even take for the party and you will be proven right in the end even if you list a couple of victories. i think they made that mistake again in 2009 by opposing obama to complete it, hoping that they could just grind down the senate, failing to, may devastate. people focus on a lot on election because the tea party candidate won the primary. more than that, just i think the complete resistance to growing government, on the one hand they've shifted the debate to the right. on the other thing made the same mistake is made in 1964 where did you put -- i hate using the metaphors but i can't think of another one. you go all in and then you lose. usage of voters with the 2012 referendum to a bunker, if you

don't when you don't repeal the. the ratchet effect of the growth of the state was not halted by goldwater campaign. it's not being halted by the tea party stock campaign. spent i want to go back to some of the more troubling parts of his record. goldwater fell in with john burgess and it's unclear to me why he felt -- at one point he said i need them politically. he opposed the civil rights act. didn't agree with brown v. board of education. what does that tell us about the man, michael? >> i was at the gerald ford library doing research on ronald reagan back in 2002. i found a note that barry goldwater at hand written to gerald ford in the fall of 75. it was very short and he simply said, i work about some of these people who are backing reagan. he said, some of them are absolute nuts. i tell that because they were that unique.

in 1964. so he at least could take a long view of who his supporters had been. and if you do read his comments on the john birch society from the '60s, he was reluctant to basically just throw this identity. one of his closest friends was an active member of the john birch society, but it's judy is going to back away from them after the presidential campaign. it seemed as if john birch society was in one direction and barry goldwater was in another victim identity needed them probably in the caucasus that had helped get his nomination in 64 but that they also discard him for other heroes after 19 secure george wallace loomed big for them in 1968 and beyond. and so i think that was sort of the parting of the ways along

with the fact that you mentioned civil rights bill which he opposed on constitutional grounds. and i'm not sure if history has proven him right or wrong but it seems he might even on losing edge of history in terms of how that is all played itself down. but he was on the right of so many other things i don't think we should begrudge them on this. i had a student wants was talking about goldwater said a professor told her that barry goldwater was a segregationist. i said i'm probably one of the people you will ever meet a new barry goldwater a little bit of and he was an integration as. his whole record up to 1964 was one of supporting equal rights for african-americans. ..

when he was on the city council and other civic affairs. >> i think we are getting close to audience questions. am i right? >> ten more minutes. >> there is a lot more that came from. let's put barry goldwater in 2010. sb 1070.

the immigration issue is developed in the 1990s and in 2,000 there was bipartisan support for lead by ronald reagan and al simpson as one of the co-authors. and so i don't think that you can project where goldwater would have been. my suspicion is that he would be on the side of arizona as a welcoming place and bracing its latino heritage and would be troubled about that. but on the other hand, i don't think that he would be in deference to the effect of the illegal immigration or the local governments. and his strong sense of federalism would have rejected

were started against the notion this is exclusively a federal problem that the local governments are powerless to do anything about. what do you think about that? >> i would have to agree. i think that barry goldwater said we should be welcoming, but i also think that he would have said the state has its own rights, which i think that he felt very deeply about. he would have been very complicated. and i think that a lot of issues although i have to say that looking at things nationally obamacare would have been a god awful thing to put on the country. but i think if you look at state issues he would be tortured back and forth into certainly on immigration he would have had some sympathy for -- you have to simply know this is a man as i think everyone knows he was very proud of his family's pioneering background from europe and he

would say that we would have to be a welcoming society. >> when the political season days end, one of the things in the legacy of the candidacy was the thought that he helped give republicans an extra strategy and help turn republican. was he responsible for that, lyndon johnson responsible for that? >> in 1864 and way before that when al smith ran for the reasons they were able to crack this down this was a -- this was mixing that was able to run the campaign 1966 and 68 as a centrist republican correction

and they appealed to the goldwater that i don't think was trying to. goldwater had a constitutional argument about he asked for and he reiterated and he be the din the states rights and all of the connotations and they turned it red. and i don't think that you can send that on that one vote. and how rapidly this had fallen away to the success cycle. on the way that goldwater actually sells he was replaced by the strategists that lacks some of those better in te intentions. >> does he have a chance? >> hkey may be a cycle or two

premature. i do believe that there is a growing sense of government demonstrating incompetence on a wide number of avenues. in 2016 the social security disability fund will run out of idea of use to read the man to the congress is going to have to decide what it's going to do about that if nothing happens than social security disability benefits will be reduced. so we will come face-to-face beginning in 2016 feet inadequate financing of the welfare state. the medicare hospital insurance trust fund will face the same

problem in the early 2020s. so the country is going to have to face this moment which i think will open the door for someone who has a more radical view of the extent we need to cut back the size and scope of government. and the march of time i think that would stand while for the acceptance of his non- interventionist foreign-policy and his more socially progressive views within the republican primary. so, my guess is that he's premature in 2016, but 2020 and 2024, someone with his set of views and i think that he is very skillful at articulating them compared to his father has a chance to seize that moment. we have some things to confront

that i think that rand paul is in a good position to articulate a direction that may be attractive over the course of time. do you agree with that and are there any other types on the republican bench right now? >> the movement i know what they prefer to be called. they are cultivated people and importantly they've been able to defeat the people they are cultivating in the michigan they are being challenged by the candidate and the chamber of commerce and he is the striking him and his guest achievements of 2013 was almost passing an amendment that would have been funded at the data collection. it turns out it's popular and you can't run against the guy. there will be people when you were saying about the idea that i think that is more likely than by candidates like rand paul in that presidential vetting process i don't think that it's going to hold up.

i just think that you've seen people who were very confident and successful, they melt a little bit when they are in a frankly sometimes stupid questions you get as a presidential candidate and the question you get as a candidate and your background and about your association. he has, up and his father was on the society and he had been addressed as a society member there or not. he's gotten further from that but those associations remember that almost for a moment there the church barack obam church bo almost take him out. no, really. and there were problems in the libertarian movement as it produced with the way that he deals with certain questions. who knows what is going to come up. i remember when we were covering

rick peary in the primary and he blew four questions that bestride him. i think what you're saying is someone with those ideas is going to win because not necessarily more popular but the bigger class believes these things and the rising millennial vote is when you ask them if the government can back it they see the government in the post 9/11 and obamacare. if they are not necessarily the pure republican voter they are sympathetic to someone that the case. >> michael? rand paul has a base he picked up from his father and it was heavily subscribed to the people at universities and colleges and it is reminiscent of how very goldwater was so well received

when the young american young ar freedom was created in 1960 hoped propelled him to 1964 and there is a similarity. younger people are far more idealistic and they don't have patience for the establishment of the republican parties. yes after they hit social security you can be the chairman of the party in the district. that is what these people are subscribing to and he has done this when he was a congressman and his son is doing it and this is what helped to propel goldwater who was in the minority view in the republican party so that the minority view captured the party and became the majority and that's the plan. it might be too soon if you change the tempo of the times you might see a major difference. >> it just made me remember that hillary was a goldwater girl when she was in her 20s.

there are two of us going around with microphones. we are recording it and it will be on the website in the morning so we ask that you say your first and last name. c-span is also here i wanted to remind you and we have a question right here. >> it's not exactly a question as a statement. my father ran against barry goldwater and one of the most striking things was how amazing he could be so accepting to somebody in the opposite political view. i thought it was way to the left and he was way to the right and yet they had these wonderful discussions and really to me he was a terrific man even though

his views were different. when he ran for the senate, arizona you just already had to be at that time was republican. so i don't know why my father decided to even run. [laughter] >> can i answer tha answer thatn the most interesting part of the run in 64 he was hoping to run against jack kennedy. can you describe that relationship? >> if they had known each other very well and they were friends, friendly rivals and they respected each other. but, you're exactly speaking to a different kind in arizona. you had almost it was like an extended family. and so people knew each other. and those bonds we show that later senator because he knew he was a longtime family and the one thing that unites all these folks.

this is what was affected. you needed that show horse against colorado that was trying to kill it. i think that is exactly the type of culture that your father is describing. >> question in the front? it has to do with the word libertarian. i understand the term libertarian republican but i remember many years ago the word liberal had a free-market connotation and it was taken over and now in the government we don't like that. do you think that it would consistently be represented.

>> in the philosophy of john stuart mills and others did kerry the rest of the world it still does. the neoliberals in most of the world describe someone with a free-market orientation. i think libertarianism sticks as a political identifier in american politics because it represents a conservatism. it's a split in the way that wasn't true. therefore there is a utility in the name to describe the point of view that has some distinction. >> i would add quickly that one of the great surprises of the

republican politics in the last ten years is that it was ron paul the great libertarianism of popular. it wasn't seen by the circles traveled in washington libertarians were not seen as the best vessel for bringing that forward. it looks more serious and the fact that ron paul ran for president and both the following against the iraq war really surprised people. given that ron paul and rand paul have been able to build the range i think that as long as it isn't an external threat as long as they feel their libertarian is going to keep on burgeoning.

>> i have a question about the civil rights act and the conflict that we had in arizona. goldwater voted against the 64 act because he didn't like the federal government opposing the nondiscrimination requirements on private business. but he had supported previously in 63. is there tension in that? there was a bill that would allow discrimination based on real burgess views and businesses which resulted in a lot of conflict. is that a tension with the goldr or libertarianism with the base? is there some way that they speak to how about to get through those conflicts? >> i think it represents a losing argument by the libertarians.

the plaintiff view that barry goldwater expressed there is nothing in the constitution and the federal government that gives the authority to tell someone who owns a private business who he has to serve and prevent him from making decisions is a purebred libertarian point of view. the field of commerce is pretty well universally regarded in some respects in public space and the government can indeed regulate the kind of interactions people have in that public space including prohibiting what is considered in the discrimination and their reaction to the bill reflects

the fact that they lost that argument. >> question in the front. there are two big trends into the other one is the massive data collection by the united states government of the private individuals and corporations. how do you think that he will approach these conditions as they relate to each other? >> and he would have said we are going to win the war because it would be consistent with how he viewed the war against communism which will send to contain it but as the greatest enemy on earth and he would probably say if he were here today it was similar as that attacked us. secondly he would have been

tortured a little bit but the fact that the government is getting bigger to acquire that i think that he would have probably said taking that were libertarian threat we don't need to have the government spying on you and knowing every last thing about you. that is one thing that flavored the rhetoric when he was running for president and we had that earlier goldwater that was so self-righteous and he would have felt uncomfortable with the government snooping around finding everything there was including who they were calling. >> next question here. >> i've been a registered republican for almost three decades now and i was also a voting national delegate for ron paul and 2012. given that the republican party is outnumbered in arizona by independents rather than asking whether they did the -- i won't

post to the panel whether the republican party is dead. >> in some states i think they can't win. i don't think a republican who is not libertarian on social issues they should even bother running. and i keep mentioning the chamber of commerce because there has been a good overarching example. they are not trying to moderate. they are going along with the libertarian demand. they are resolutely in the repeal of obamacare and they are resolutely anti-tax and they are

more in the red speaking businesses and i think they always will be so there is a chamber of commerce. you look how close the senate race in 2012 states it's because of the hispanic voters turning against the massive numbers here in colorado and the two young people that are not socially conservative when they don't care about from seeking so i think that you are basically right. i'm not going to disagree with you. it's what part of the liberty movement and libertarianism they decide to allow into the party that is. certainly the -- anyone that loses a race i don't think that it was so much that he was a bad

candidate because it is true that he failed to reach out to people if they always voted they can't win again. how do you reach out, certainly the libertarians want immigration reform and that is going to be more appealing to what mitt romney ran on. he did better than romney and that is a struggle. that isn't what a lot of the republican party stand for. they are going to lose in half a century if they don't change. >> we have time for one last question but before we move on i want to take this time to think the panelists are taking time to be with us tonight and i would also like to think the co- than- presenter for this evening arizona state university and c-span for joining and recording tonight event and i would think all of you for coming and joining tonight and at the reception. happy hour will start momentarily and it will be

straight behind the exit sign right behind you on the patio. please join us for a drink that you can speak with our featured guest who will be there. and now the last question. >> you spoke about the stenc stn of government and the information they know. what about corporations and others? the first computer asks is where are you. also the campaign finance to nations that come in as david mentioned so if you could speak to that. >> in conscious of a conservative, goldwater invades rigorously against the union movement and actually advocates the federal law restricting the union's political activities and among the things that he says in that book is that neither the

unions nor the corporations should be permitted to donate or participate in political activities and they are intended as economic organizations and shouldn't be exercising political rights. and he also speaks approvingly of antitrust laws. the extent to which there was genuine or just a way to make his antiunion screed more broadly palatable i'm not sure. he was an icon of the arizona business community before he became a politician. he was comfortable with large businesses. the general libertarian economic position is that press of entry are sufficient to guard against

trusting and restraint against trade and are suspicious of antitrust laws and i think certainly the point of the view that corporations have protected free speech rights is now a pretty standard fare in the libertarian and conservative philosophy. so my guess is that he would not be as quick to put restraints on business in terms of its collection of data and its use of the data as he would federal government. >> with that, thank you so much and we will see you outside. [applause]

the u.s. senate is about to return to start its work week. votes on judicial nominations continue this week. in fact at 5:30 p.m. members

will vote on three u.s. district court nominations. also today we expect to hear remarks from senators on the escalating violence in iraq. later on this week the senate will begin work on bills to fund the federal government including the department of transportation, commerce, housing and agriculture. live coverage of the senate now on c-span2. iding officer: the senate will come to order. the chaplain dr. barry black will lead the senate in prayer. the chaplain: let us pray. lord of all, you loved us before we loved you. accept our thanksgiving for the gifts of life, love and laughter. come among our lawmakers